Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:33:00 -0700
From: "Rich Williams II" <richw@nwlink.com>
Subject: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry
>Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers.
1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding =
rovers for sale?
Dont' know.
>2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various =
Range Rover model years, etc.?
I suppose you could subscribe to the Range Rover equivelent of this list.
>3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic =
or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you basically need =
to go to the dealer for service?
US-spec Range Rovers require dealer servicing for a lot of stuff unless you are a
REALLY well equipped mechanic. As soon as you get into air conditioning problems,
engine control computer problems, ABS computer problems, etc., you're probably
talking dealer unless you have the equipment and know-how to troubleshoot electro-
mechanical systems like these.
>4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when =
looking at these?
A lot of thing fail in the vicinity of the 100,000 mile mark. Radiators, water
pumps, steering pumps and boxes, and suspension bushings you can
pretty much count on to give up the ghost at this time, depending on how
the vehicle has been driven. Electrical items like central door locking,
seat and window relays, and ABS can be troublesome at any time.
>5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L and =
the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay =
away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9?
Under no circumstances (unless you like throwing money away) buy
a Range Rover 4.2 LWB. The engine is a failure waiting to happen. I won't
go into details here, but suffice it to say enlarging the displacement
from 3.9 to 4.2 (actually done by TVR) was a good idea that didn't work in the
case of the Range Rover. The block flexes under load, and blows head
gaskets and develops oil leaks. This engine is why they developed the 4.0/4.6
variant for the new model Range Rover. Also, the 1st generation air suspension
on the 4.2 LWB is the system Rover used to learn how NOT to make an air suspension.
Bad vehicle all around except for the extra eight inches of rear seat legroom- avoid it like
the plague.
6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one =
seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are =
the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed?
If you're in the US, you have no choice, as the only Range Rovers imported have
automatics. It is a very good transmission, built by ZF, and is a derivative of the
automatic transmission used in BMWs and Mercedes. If you import a Range Rover
from the UK or wherever that's over 25 years old, you can get one with a manual
transmission. But unlike the Discoveries brought into the US, all the Range Rovers
imported are automatics. If you're outside the US, Rover used a 3-speed Chrysler
automatic for awhile. Despite the transmission's good reputation in the US, I have
read nothing but Bad Things about that transmission as used in the Range Rover.
Quite trouble-prone, apparently, although it shouldn't be. The manuals are good,
except those built in the early 90s. There were bad quality problems at the supplier,
and as a consequence, Range Rovers, Discoveries, and Defenders built with manual
transmissions during that time have a high rate of failures. The good news is that
most of these vehicles will have had their failed transmissions replaced by now, usually
under warranty.
>7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of =
real space?
Besides the LWB being total crap mechanically, the difference is eight inches of
legroom in the rear seat. The front seat and bed areas are the same. The extra
eight inches is very nice, but not worth the potential expenses lurking in the engine
and suspension.
>8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides =
LWB and SWB versions?=20
All "classic" Range Rovers are the same in terms of frame, body, etc. The LWB
has more legroom in the rear seat via a stretched frame and wheelbase. It also
has the first generation air suspension, which like the 4.2 engine, is a repair bill waiting
to be paid. The classic coil spring Range Rover's basic chassis was used as the platform
for the Discovery. There was a "stripped down" Range Rover imported to the US in 1991
called the Hunter. While the chassis, drive train, and engine are identical to the standard
and County models, the Hunter does not have anti sway bars, a front spoiler with fog lights,
a sunroof, or power leather seats. The interior trim is more sparse than the regular
model. This was an attempt by the importer to create a more affordable Range Rover
(the Hunter had a sticker price of $38,000 while the standar model had a sticker price
of $44,900. The Hunter proved not very popular with US buyers, and this version was
soon dropped, leaving only the standard and County models. They differ only in trim and
interior appointments. A Hunter can be identified from the back by the stylized horse and
rider logo at the lower right corner of the tailgate.
>9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy?
The US-spec version MUST use premium fuel unless you want to change the
valve timing and other things. It gets 13 mpg in town, maybe 18mph on the highway
unless you have a really strong tailwind. Parts are VERY expensive, unless you order
them from the UK, in which case the parts prices are reasonable but the shipping will
more than make up for it (been there, done that many times). Dealer labor charges are
close to $100 an hour now. Some parts price examples- radiator- $700, ABS computer,
$1,500, brake caliper rebuild/replacement (one axle only)- $1,000 minimum, fan viscous
clutch- $400, dealer "tune up," $600 assuming they find nothing wrong.
>10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with =
150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much =
"trouble" as a Series truck.
They can be as much "trouble" as a Series from the day they leave the factory. Or
they can go for a couple of hundred thousand miles very reliably. The build/mechanical
quality is very spotty. There are great ones and there are dogs. I personally would never
buy a used Range Rover in the US, as there are too many ways the previous
owner can screw it up. It MUST have the oil and filter changed every 3,000 miles regardless
of what the manual and dealer say. This is because the hydraulic lifters in the Rover V-8
are very susceptible to dirt, and if they start to stick, they quickly pound the cam lobe flat.
Big bucks repair bill. The aluminum engine MUST have the correct grade of coolant in it, and
it MUST be in good condition, which means an annual change at least. The engine MUST
be fed only premium fuel. Many US Range Rover owners in the US do not give them this
kind of attention.
>11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck?
Lots and lots of money :-) Actually, I've found the stock coil spring Range Rover
to be very, very good off-road as it is. I use it for moose hunting in BC and for
towing a 3,000 poound boat hundreds of miles on dirt roads in BC and on Vancouver Island. The
only real detriment is the rear overhang. The front spoiler is easily removed, and in fact
the owners manual has the instructions for doing so. The Range Rover can be fitted with
an ARB air locker on the differential- one on the rear should suffice for dealing with almost
any bad mud or whatever situation you might come across. Bear in mind that if not used
intelligently, a locking differential can ruin your driveline in short order.
I was very leery of using an automatic off road, as I was used to the manual in my SIII, but
after 10 years now, I've found the automatic actually has some advantages. So I'm no longer
an advocate of manual-only in off-road driving. Both have their advantages and disadvantages;
it's much more a matter of the driver knowing how to use what he has effectively than which
type of tranmission is the best.
There have been reports that the viscous clutch (used in place of the lock on the center differential)
can fail or cease working temporarily under continuous, high-stress off-roading that overheats
the clutch fluid and components. But I suspect that if this is the kind of off-road work you want
to do, a Range Rover is not your best choice anyway.
In my opinion, the best years for US-spec Range Rovers are 91 and 92. The 4.2 LWB was
introduced in '93, and that was the end of Range Rover as a viable on-off road vehicle as far
as I'm concerned. The 4.2 LWB is just plain crap, and the new model, while fabulous from
a technical point of view, is getting awfully fancy for anyone but the extremely wealthy to consider
beating up on the trail.
We've been very happy with our '91 Vogue SE. It has 118,000 miles on it, and the things that
are supposed to give out at 100,000 miles have done so, or are doing so. But it's been quite
reliable. However, it's had only one owner, and we've taken care of every problem as it's arisen,
and have kept the oil clean and the coolant fresh. We drive it pretty conservatively, shifting
into a lower gear range when climbing hills, for example, to keep the transmission from hunting
back and forth. We also shift down manually when towing the boat up a hill. I think we've used the
kick-down feature of the transmission twice in ten years. So we've been pretty easy on it, even
when we take if off-road or into "working" mode.
Including warranty problems, we've had:
a leaking hub seal, failed air condtioner fans, leaking brake caliper seal, bad fan belts, failed
cruise control, failed wiper motor relay, failed window switch, failed ABS computer, failed
fan viscous clutch, loose windshield wiper motor, non-functioning tailgate lock, failed seat
adjustment switch, cracked road wheel, failed trailing arm bushings. With the exception
of the ABS computer, all the items listed were either warranty items within the first year of
ownership, or problems my wife and I fixed ourselves.
We are not at all sorry we bought the vehicle, but when we were contemplating trading up to
a new model Range Rover the other year, we decided we preferred the styling and relative
simplicity of the coil spring model we have now, so we elected to keep our '91. But I would
caution anyone contemplating buying any Range Rover to be aware of the potential cost
of ownership, because it can be amazingly high. The purchase price may be the least of
your expenses in the long run.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle
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