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From: "John Baker" <daddyo@loxinfo.co.th>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:33:47 +0700
Subject: Transfer Case

At about 50 mph the transfer case on my 75 Series III 109 begins making a
rhythmic rumbling at about one second intervals. Any faster and this
becomes more pronounced, until the hi-lo lever really begins to send out a
racket as it is ocillating side to side very fast. My gearbox was just
rebuilt, supposedly all the bearings, part, etc. (I supplied) were
installed by the mechanic. The gearbox itself seems to be working fine,
smooth shifts, doesn't pop out of gear, etc. According to my Haynes a noisy
transfer box is due to low oil (oil is OK), bad bearings (assuming for the
moment that this is not the case), or excessive end-float of the
intermediate gear. Before I tear the unit out I have several questions I
hope some kind member(s) can help me with.

1. From the symptoms described above does my diagnosis sound correct?
Should I be considering any other possible causes?

2. I understand that the transfer case can be removed without removing the
gearbox. Is it possible to rectify the end float situation with the
transfer case in situ, or must it be removed and stripped for this?

3. Finally, if the problem is incorrect end-float, is this a problem that I
can try to live with for a while if I don't feel like tacking this problem
at the moment?

Any comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. 

Regards,

John M. Baker
Bangkok

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From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@MAGNET.MT>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:55:00 +0100
Subject: RE:Re: llA Bulkheads eeplaced by series III or l

On the later Series III there is plastic on the bulkhead.

These damn bulkheads rust too easily in my opinion.  

My 90 will need the top left hand side corner to be cut and new metal welded as 
it is rusting away.  I have managed to slow it down but will eventually be cut 
and repaired.

The problem begins with the design as the windscreen water is channelled on the 
windscreen hindges.  As landrover is known for great quality seals :-( water 
beings to seep in  and eventually rusts the bulkhead from the inside.  You only 
see the rust when it has taken a grip and new metal needs to be welded.

ny thoughts??

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

"Mr. Mike" Passaretti:

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 09:21:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Distributor 

>it would be obvious that something was wrong when the top clamp will not fit 
>or it would be necessary to put a spacer under the clamp so that it could be 
>secured to the block.

unless of course it was 17 degrees out and the only tool you had was a 
fingernail clipper...

later

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 09:29:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Front horns too close 

  >I am in the process of mounting my winch.  None of my bumpers fit.  The two 
  >front horns are about 1/4 inch too close. 
  
  I had the same problem, except mine were 1/2" too close. I tried the high 
  lift, I don't think it has enough power to do the job. I ended up using a 
  slightly bent bumper...
  
  Maybe you can compress the mounting tabs on the bumper a little closer with 
  your hi-lift.
  
  later

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 06:25:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Transfer Case

>2. I understand that the transfer case can be removed without removing the
>gearbox. Is it possible to rectify the end float situation with the
>transfer case in situ, or must it be removed and stripped for this?
;
Yes the transfer case can be completely removed without removing the 
transmission.  I've done that.

You can check the end play without removing the transfer case.  Empty out 
the oil, remove the pan from the bottom of the transfer box.  Check the 
endplay per the manual.  You may have to remove the gear on the rear of 
the transmission rear main shaft for the test.  Make sure that it's nut 
is tightened correctly.  The manual will provide a full description.

TO reshim the intermediate gear you will need to remove the rear prop 
shaft, remove the parking brake so that the shaft that the intermediate 
gear rides on can be withdrawn.

Are the bolts holding on your prop shafts tight?

Did you replace a 'U' joint at about the same time?

TeriAnn Wakeman                                  Border to Border
Santa Cruz, California                          Expedition Society 
twakeman@cruzers.com                           "Live the adventure"
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman           http://www.bordertoborder.com

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From: "Keith R. Mohlenhoff" <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:30:10 -0500
Subject: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

I have just replaced a clutch MC that was rebuild in March 96. Both
times, I saw fluid running down the pedal? This latest occurance and the
last happened when it was really cold(20s). Do the seals shrink in the
cold? How long should the seals normally last?

Does any one with a 2.25 Diesel have a vacumn pump for their brake
servo, if so where is it mounted? Do you need a dual pulley on the
crank?

Keith R. Mohlenhoff

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 09:51:21 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Electric Rover, for gods sake why mess with it??? 

        >>With your tremendous commute (4 miles), might I suggest a bicycle.  
        
        ROFL
        
> Find it hard to believe that no one else has questioned the efficacy or 
>validity of your idea.

 because we didn't even read the message...I have no interest in making my LR 
electric...especially after finding out that it makes "no sound" I think i 
would need the passenger to make engine noises for me...

later
dave

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:51:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Front horns too close

Have you thought of / tried filing the mount holes in the forks/bumper
to allow it to fit without forcing the forks apart?

Just an idea?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
"Native Experience" - production unit in Alaska USA
telephone			     (907) 230 0359
e-mail				channel6@alaska.net
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 07:18:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

>I have just replaced a clutch MC that was rebuild in March 96. Both
>times, I saw fluid running down the pedal? This latest occurance and the
>last happened when it was really cold(20s).

If I were to make a guess I would say that seals become less flexible 
during really cold weather and the bore of your master cylinder may have 
a spot where the seal travels AND that is just a little wider in 
diameter.  This is fairly common on home rebuilt cylinders where the 
rebuilder hones out a scratch area.  The scratch areas tend to be where 
the seal rides and the metal is very soft.  Normally the seal expands to 
fill the space, but continued exposure to brake fluid and the cold temps 
may have affected it's ability to expand.

I suggest that when you rebuild the soft metal hydraulic cylinders that 
you get them sleeved with a harder metal that brake fluid does not 
corrode, like brass.

I recommend against the cheap after market iron hydraulic cylinders.  
When moisture gets inside the piston rusts itself solidly to the body.  
Tried them once and within a year I only had one functional brake out of 
four.  I was doing a lot of deep long distance wading that year.

;> Do the seals shrink in the cold? 

No they have a thick layer of subcutaneous fat that keeps them warm in 
cold weather.

;>How long should the seals normally last?

I think that depends upon your driving, how clean your hydraulic fluid is 
and what kind of fluid you are using.

If you are driving on dry pavement, not letting your car sit for long 
periods of time and change your DOT 4 or DOT 5 brake fluid yearly, your 
seals may outlive you.

You need to keep particles and water away from the seals.

;>Does any one with a 2.25 Diesel have a vacuum pump for their brake
;>servo, if so where is it mounted? Do you need a dual pulley on the

I believe that by the time that LRs had factory power brakes they also 
had alternators.  If memory serves the alternators mounted on diesels 
have a vacume pump mounted on the rear of the alternator shaft.

Take care

TeriAnn Wakeman                                  Border to Border
Santa Cruz, California                          Expedition Society 
twakeman@cruzers.com                           "Live the adventure"
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman           http://www.bordertoborder.com

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 10:02:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather? 

> Do the seals shrink in the cold? How long should the seals normally 
>last?

yes. If there is a problem with the seals, you will likely begin to notice it 
when the cold weather hits. How long the seals last on a rebuild is dependent 
on the condition of the cylinder. Sometimes honing the cylinder enough to make 
it smooth can remove too much material, which reduces the effectiveness of the 
seal and its ability to shrink in the cold and still seal.
later
dave

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:31:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Keith R. Mohlenhoff wrote:

:I have just replaced a clutch MC that was rebuild in March 96. Both
:times, I saw fluid running down the pedal? This latest occurance and the
:last happened when it was really cold(20s). Do the seals shrink in the
:cold? How long should the seals normally last?

Seals fail when they feel like it.  I think that they use a complicated
foruma that takes into account maximizing the pain and suffering caused.
It is a classic problem that the seals in master cylinders shrink when it
is cold, causing poor performance.  I had a really scary ride down a
mountain in a volvo wagan once.  The brakes had been fine going up, but it
was thirty or fourty degrees colder when we went down, and the brakes
weren't worth shit.  Got to the bottom where it was warmer, and the brakes
came back.

David

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 07:39:26 -0800
Subject: Re: wiring assistance

>process of replacing parts of the rear wiring, I came across a green/brown
>wire that I couldn't seem to locate in my wiring diagram.
;
;>I'm guessing it's the small white rear light (back-up???) on the left
;>rear..... 

Hi Gerry!

According to the Lucas wire code page in my web site 
(http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman)
Green/brown is switch to reversing lamps.

So your guess is correct and you can reward yourself with a new years 
trip up the Majove trail.

See ya on the trail in a couple of days!!!

TeriAnn Wakeman                                  Border to Border
Santa Cruz, California                          Expedition Society 
twakeman@cruzers.com                           "Live the adventure"
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman           http://www.bordertoborder.com

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From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:39:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Transfer Case

John,

After following TeriAnn's suggestions, also confirm that the propshafts are
ballanced. I have a SIII 109 and had some trouble with the rear propshaft being
slightly out of ballance. This, due to the extra lenght over an 88 can cause
the symptoms you have described.

Always look to the simplest of solutions first! Failing that it could be simply
that your rebuilder didn't tighten the retaining ring and bolt on the gear to
full factory torq.

Good Luck,

Happy New Year!

John Wood

John Baker wrote:

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From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:46:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

Keith,

Just a couple of things:
1) I have had trouble with my MC seals on and Off. Living in CO. this last
week we had minus degree temps. My cylender was leaking down the pedal a
little. i moved the vehicle into my heated garage and the problem stopped.

2) I have a 2.25 D. but no pump for the servo. Mine is a '79 SIII 109 it has
the servo res. that is located in front of the the window screen fluid
bottle. the vacume is created by a line run between the res. the servo unit,
and the air intake manifold. It is not 100% reliable if my timing and
mixture are at all off, but it is easier and less drain on engine power than
a pump. It is factory equip!

Best of Luck!

John Wood

Keith R. Mohlenhoff wrote:

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From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@fourfold.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:05:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Electric vehicles

Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net> writes:

> So which is easier to filter/clean up -- a single power plant, or all those
> individual tailpipes?

	The individual tailpipes.  The buying public doesn't have a
choice.  They get whgat government regulations tell them they are going to
get.  Having little economic power and influence, they are stuck.  Now,
that power plant is owned by a large conglomerate, with lots of bucks to
toss around at political parties, get exemptions, and the like.  Besides,
under the Kyoto Accord, they will be able to buy pollution credits off of
impoverised nations and continue to spew pollutants.  

> But it is actually a good choice for an electric vehicle.  

	IIB would be better...  Even looks like a milk float...

> Haven't kept up on current battery technology, have you?  

	Yes...  The modern, efficient ones cost the worlds...  Cost per
amp, it's hard to beat old fashioned lead-acid... 

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:33:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

>> Do the seals shrink in the cold?
This is getting a bit personal but I would assume that male seals, like
other mammals would have some "shrinkage" in the cold.  I'll check National
Geographic online to see if the female of the species gets what is
sometimes called "hard nipple syndrome" here in Denver among the human
population.

 How long should the seals normally
>>last?
Depends on the Seal.  Diet, stress and general physical condition of the
seal all can play a big role in determining how long he will "last".

I sure hope this helps....  :)

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:44:45 -0800
Subject: Overdrive Manual/pictures

Hi All,
I'm still wondering if my second 88's overdrive might be a Toro.
Does anyone have pictures or a manual for the Toro?
My overdrive is 1/3 longer than the Fairey but otherwise looks like the
Fairey.
Threaded dipstick etc. Did Toro ever have a threaded dipstick? The few
references I've seen have a slip in dipstick.
Looking at the bottom, there are two ridge lines in the Fairey, and three
lines in this one. This one is so quiet compared to the Fairey, so it must
be Toro.

Thanks,
Bob Bernard

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From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:28:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Electric vehicles

  For anyone complaining this mught be considered a commercial posting,
skip it... I'm not affiliated with the companies involved...

>I was interested in the Electric landy subject and browsed at the
>website with the motor adverts - but nowhere could I see the simple info
>which seems relevant when discussing this subject - answering questions
>like -

  I asked Wilde EV about this a couple months back and got some e-mail from
them. Here's some of it...

  Wilde EVolutions--->

In low speed and off-road use, the electric Land Rover performs better than
the gasoline powered version. And it does about as well on the highway, but
of course it has all the aerodynamics of a barn door. We've been using
either a single or double string of 12 volt deep cycle batteries. With the
double string, range is approximately 50 miles at highway speeds, farther
at the low amp draws we typically see off-road.

This range is fine for our uses, which are office shop truck (running to
the Post Office, hardware store, lunch, etc.) and fun/demo runs at off road
sites (to which we tow the Land Rover). Although creating a hybrid to
provide longer range is theoretically possible, we have no first hand
experience with doing so. To provide sufficient power for continuous
highway operation would require approximately 15KW. That is not a small
generator.

Here are the modifications we made when converting the `71 (other than
wiring):

- Seat base was modified to allow better access to under-seat battery
boxes. From driver's seat, extend your left hand down toward door sill
between door and seat base. The verticle seat base panel next to your hand
angles in from the sill to the bottom edge of the seat. We changed the
angle of this panel to make it more verticle. This allows lifing a large
battery straight up from the battery box without removing the seat base
(although the seat-track must be removed).

- The tool box under the driver's seat was removed.

- An outrigger was welded onto the frame to support the driver's side
battery box. We duplicated the passenger-side outrigger, just as if we were
adding a second fuel tank.

- A portion of the radiator support panel was cut away, as it was no longer
needed, and doing so provided more room under the hood.

I can't think of any other modifications which we made. We made no
suspension changes, although I am planning to add some low-friction
material between the leaves on both Rovers to improve extreme suspension
travel in rough terrain (nothing to do with EVs).

At the moment, we have batteries mounted above the motor. That box is
supported by a cross member which is bolted to the frame using pre-existing
Rover bolts for the firewall. We will be changing the battery layout both
to lower the center of gravity and to expose the motor to view. We are
contemplating using 13 group 31 batteries (156 VDC nominal) - 3 under
driver's seat, 3 under passenger's seat, 3 above front axle, 2 under rear
floor in front of rear axle and 2 under rear floor behind rear axle. The
front and rear placement may change as we get into actually building the
boxes.

We do battery testing for manufacturers. The GNB batteries currently in the
Rover are not going to be a consumer product. We will next be using some
new Optima group 31's which are not currently on the market, but most
likely will be soon. The longest trip we've made was around the top of San
Francisco bay. It was a rally which began at the Presidio, headed North
through Sausalito, across the Richmond-San Rafael bridge, down through the
East bay, and then back across the Bay bridge and through the City to the
Presido. Total was probably a little over 50 miles. Given that the Rover
has high rolling resistance plus poor aerodynamics, slower off road travel
is a better match for the capabilities of the electric. We tell people "an
hour on the highway or all day off road."

Conversion costs for a typical EV are around $6,000 to $8,000.

 End Wilde EVolutions--->

  I also asked about specifics regarding motor size, type, and general
equipment specifics. They use the standard Series drivetrain and replace
the engine with an electric motor at the bellhousing with an adapter,
retaining transfer gear capability, etc... I have yet to hear about motor
and controller specifics.
  Personally, if it's not your daily driver, the EV Land Rover would make a
wonderful off-roader. Full torque at low RPM, quiet running in remote,
possibly wildlife sensitive areas (not to mention general sanity, anyway).
Clean running on location (might as well keep your local natural air
smelling nice). High reliability due to proven technologies and very few
moving parts. I don't know how much faith I hold in the solar recharging
method (must take forever), but if you run out of gas you're screwed. At
least you have some kind of chance when batteries run down and you have a
collector or an electric line nearby (far more prevalent than gas
stations). Nothing can beat proper preparation, of course.
  I inquired mainly to satisfy my own thought of a hybrid electric Rover,
which they hadn't really investigated (aside from the towed generator). The
US Army is developing hybrid Hummers which are quiet, faster, quicker, and
more efficient (by factors of two is some cases), than their diesel
counterparts.
  My current take is that for a pure EV, if you're living in LA or some
other congested area of the world where electricity is a plenty, local
pollution is high, commutes are short, and it's warm, you're golden. Forget
EVs in the Northeast where it's cold, the battery technology isn't there
yet for the masses. In fact, the battery issue is the biggest hinderance to
the whole EV concept for the cost conscious consumer.
  While EVs are shrouded in "green-ness" forget it if you're worried about
it. The old Series trucks are putting out a bunch of crap anyway. Either
you do it, or the powerplants do it. Thoughts on whether you can control
emissions better at a powerplant or at the tailpipe are basically moot with
an old car. I mean, come on people, we're driving Series Land Rovers, and
most people with US emissions models don't even use the emissions controls
that were originally designed into them. Don't respond regarding that last
statement. It was the gist that counted. :-)
  For anyone worried about the originality and rare factor of a Series
truck, you can quickly and easily reverse an EV conversion. Then again,
here's a better solution, don't owrry about the originality and rare factor
of your Series IIA or III Land Rover (the most likely EV candidate)!
  
  There you have it. Some fact and some opinion. I suggest, as Adrian
suggests, learning more about the subject at hand... Take care everyone.

Jeff Goldman
Boston, MA
http://www.gis.net/~roverboy

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:00:02 -0500
Subject: Tranny question

"Michael Wells" <mwells11@rjt.co.uk>

>I have a 2.25 engine with a 11a gearbox in my 86". Everything seems OK
>apart from the box sticking in reverse occasionally. I have a real job
>getting it free and when I do I might not happen for weeks. Has anyone any
>ideas.

I think that one of the differences between the IIa and the III gearbox is
that the reverse idler gear for the III tranny is slightly tapered, so that
it doesn't pop out of reverse.  Perchance some PO put a III part in your
IIa tranny?  Even side-by-side, the taper is difficult to detect by eye.
Or, perhaps the shaft the gear rides on has moved out of position...it's a
simple press fit. Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:59:59 -0500
Subject: Camshafts

Sorry if this is a few days late...I got the flu for Christmas and the
email acct is only on the office machine, 'cause the home one crashed....

TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com> wrote:

>I thought Robert had given up on the LR four in favour of the Mercruiser 
>engine.

Robert is a born tinkerer...if he can find a way to do things better, he'll
do it.  Once set up a 2.6 litre with *air conritioning* and a capstan winch
and made the whole shebang look *factory*....

>I'm not 100% sure if you are talking just building & selling cams & 
>assume that others will modify their engines to make full use of the new 
>cam or if you are talking about selling cams and complete hot rodded 
>engines.  If you are thinking of engines...

Just camshafts (porting and polishing ain't rocket science), using ones
that were previously supplied to Santana.  After a bit of R&D, he's
envisioning custom camshafts...those that want more bottom-end grunt or
those who want more top-end speed...or a little bit of both.

"Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>Or is the problem in determining exactly how much to build each lobe?

Yup...the first one's a bitch...then it's relatively easy to copy the
profile.  There are several shops that can do it locally, but you want to
get the economies of scale.  Turning out twenty costs a whole lot less per
unit than one.  He'll be starting with Santana cams - gear/bearing surfaces
ready to go but lobes left uncut and "rough".  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:12:17 -1000
Subject: Re: Front horns too close

Check with a local tool rental place and see if they have a long travel 20t
bottle jack.  That might work.  Or drill out the holes, 1/8th each to make
up the difference.
Aloha
Pete

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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:13:07 EST
Subject: $100 solution, was Front horns too close

I bought a four ton 'port-a-power' tool a few years back. Has a ram, a pump
and several attachments, different kind of feet. Made in china, where peanut
butter or silly putty seem to be a staple metal in most alloys, it cost a
hundred bucks US in '93. I used it many times to spread things like frame
horns, before the ram bent (!?!). Worth the dough. Maybe you can just borrow
one?
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS
LROA #1095
SoLaRoS #23
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
(770)345-3516 

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:18:14 +0100
Subject: Brake vaccuum servo pump

My 88" has a vac.servo pump - made by Peirburg (Germany). This unit is
mounted just above the generator (there is JUST enough room for it) on a
home made bracket which uses three of the screwed mounts in the motor
front (2 at top above water pump fixed, and a swing bracket - like the
alternator, using one of the water pump housing screws as an anchor.

The pump sucks "vacuum" out of the inlet manifold and feeds it to the
servo tank (I know this is actually the other way round - sucks out of
tank and releases to intake)

The pump is belt driven, from the water pump/fan using a new double
pulley wheel and separate belt.

My mechanic mounted this - I think he pinched it off a rangie(?) many
years ago - the first two mount brackets failed after a while, this year
i made a new heavyweight version. So iof you are doing this yourself -
overdimension!

I have a spare pump which i will soon mount on my 109" - but it needs a
new diaphragm - I can't seem to find anyone anywhere who stocks these.

In the beginning I thought I got better vac. to the brake servo and
better braking - sometimes I wonder if the improvement is that great -
but at least the red TEST light doesn't come on all the time!

Good luck!

Adrian Redmond

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:31:27 -1000
Subject: Re: Overdrive Manual/pictures

>I'm still wondering if my second 88's overdrive might be a Toro.
>Does anyone have pictures or a manual for the Toro?

Aloha Bob,
I have a stack of stuff down in the office to be scanned, including the toro
manual.  I blew out my knee for xmas so wont be getting out much this week.
Seems like a good time to get caught up.  Will send you the url when the
page gets updated.  Also have the Fairey manual so you can compare the two.
No pics of the toro though :-(
Pete

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From: David <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:32:24 -0500
Subject: Sand tyres

First, I hope all is well and everyone is enjoying their holidaze. Also,
sorry for the cross post and minimal LR content. My parents have a
small/mid-size SUV that they keep at a beach home, so it only sees about
6000mi/year. We are trying to make the appropriate modifications so it will
have a fighting chance while being driven on the beach (legally)

Does anyone have experience/suggestions, just short of a paddle-wheel type
tire. in the 30" range?

TIA

Please reply directly or cc: me.

Thanks again!

David Russell
Member: OVLR, R.O.V.E.R.S. and the MostlyMetro group
1997 Discovey SD 5-speed
1969 SIIA "Bugeye" 88" SW Petrol, green; in progress
1965+/- SIIA 109" P/U Diesel
1977 Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser (sort of)
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:40:37 -1000
Subject: Tranny pops out of gear.

Aloha, hope everyone had a great weekend.
I know this has been covered before, but for the life of me I can not find
it any where in the archive.
When my Rover (still searching for a name) was still on the road it would
sometimes pop out of first gear when driving down hill and using engine
compression breaking.  Was told that it is simply a detent ball/spring that
needs changing.
I don't want to rebuild the whole unit, but it is out of the project and
would be a perfect time to change the little buggahs.  Sooooo, what's the
easiest way to change them, I mean I might as well change all of them right?

Second, is there a way to measure the clutch disk while the tranny is still
attached to the engine?  It was not slipping or anything.  Vehicle has 65k
on it, no clutch found in the stack of records I got with her.  I would hate
to put this thing back together and then have to replace the unit in the
next year, preventive maintenance I guess.  How thick is a new disk?  How
thin are they when you have had to replace them??

Much mahalo,
Pete

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:49:31 -0500
Subject: Wheel stud

Richard writes :while removing a rear wheel i broke a stud off in the hub,
about an inch is
still extending out. these are the threaded type. any ideas on how to
remove what is left?

 The simplest way is to remove the hub, drill out ,or grind away the upset
from the rear of the stud, then unscrew the offending piece of stud and fit
a replacement, use mechanical deformation to lock the replacement in place
DO NOT WELD it in place. The welding process will change the structure of
the steel and the stud can fail prematurely.
 Alternatively the best solution is to drill out all the studs and replace
them with the later type press in studs, these are a far stronger and
superior product. Rest assured the rest of the screw in studs will let you
down sometime.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:05:05 -1000
Subject: Re: Sand tyres

>have a fighting chance while being driven on the beach (legally)
>Does anyone have experience/suggestions, just short of a paddle-wheel type
>tire. in the 30" range?

http://dickcepek.com/
Order a copy of their tire catalog.  They have a great paddler.  Friend
swore by them.  Had a set that he would use on the Outer Banks, NC when he
would go down there for fishing weekends.
These tires are NOT road legal how ever.  If you want something that is, I
believe that paddlers are out, so look for the widest 30" you can find.
Mickey Thompson makes a 30-12.50-15.
Pete

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 14:19:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear. 

Peter
I hate to be the bearer of bad new but nine times out of ten replacing the 
detent balls does not make a bit of difference in keeping the tranny in gear. 
Unless the spring or ball is broken or missing, there isn't that much to go 
wrong with them as the spring is quite stout. What you will need to do is 
rebuild the gearbox. The time to do this is now, if I understand correctly that 
the gearbox is out of the vehicle.
Also just go ahead and replace the clutch disk, and the T/O bearing, and the 
spigot bush in the flywheel. Also check the flywheel for flatness, and get it 
refaced if it isn't flat.

The time spent doing these things propely now will be well worth it later. Few 
things suck more than putting the whole car back together and then having to 
remove the tranny again. 

the time to attempt a "wing and a prayer" type repair (i.e. replacing detent 
balls to keep a the tranny in gear) is while the vehicle is still on the road, 
so that it can be tested. It would be a shame to find out that the gearbox 
needed rebuilding and you missed the opportunity to do it while it was out of 
the truck.

BTW, don't buy your gears form RN, get them from Paddocks or the like. They can 
be had rather cheap I understand. I paid $800 in parts from RN, and I still had 
to send some back because of poor machining, and they were all made in 3rd 
world anyway.

later
Dave

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:33:57
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear. 

	Peter, did you slip in the snow???  Those winter time accidents are
especially bad because the knees don't get a chance to warm up especially
when your wearing shorts.  In any case hope you can are up and about soon
without any lasting effects.

	As far as the detents, probably is more than that.  I've got to do a
rebuild on my 109 transmission.  Shall will separately do it together.
Have a transmission sitting on the bench that I was going to take apart for
practice.  Hopefully will get a chance to get at that this week and will
report the findings.  

	The IIa throw out is supposed to be good for the life of the car so you
shouldn't need to mess with that.  Its not the throw away type of the later
series III.  

	Want to thank Dave for the heads up on parts.  Did some preliminary
pricing and transmission pieces add up big time from US Suppliers.  

	If TeriAnn is out there, you've got alternate bearings for the
transmission but was unclear if they were for the series III or IIa.

Aloha Peter

At 02:19 PM 12/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Peter
>I hate to be the bearer of bad new but nine times out of ten replacing the 
>detent balls does not make a bit of difference in keeping the tranny in

gear. 
>Unless the spring or ball is broken or missing, there isn't that much to go 
>wrong with them as the spring is quite stout. What you will need to do is 
>rebuild the gearbox. The time to do this is now, if I understand correctly
that 
>the gearbox is out of the vehicle.
>Also just go ahead and replace the clutch disk, and the T/O bearing, and the 
>spigot bush in the flywheel. Also check the flywheel for flatness, and get
it 
>refaced if it isn't flat.
>The time spent doing these things propely now will be well worth it later.
>spigot bush in the flywheel. Also check the flywheel for flatness, and get
Few 
>things suck more than putting the whole car back together and then having to 
>remove the tranny again. 
>the time to attempt a "wing and a prayer" type repair (i.e. replacing detent 
>balls to keep a the tranny in gear) is while the vehicle is still on the

road, 
>so that it can be tested. It would be a shame to find out that the gearbox 
>needed rebuilding and you missed the opportunity to do it while it was out
of 
>the truck.
>BTW, don't buy your gears form RN, get them from Paddocks or the like.
>the time to attempt a "wing and a prayer" type repair (i.e. replacing detent 
They can 
>be had rather cheap I understand. I paid $800 in parts from RN, and I
still had 

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:00:02 -1000
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear. 

>What you will need to do is
>rebuild the gearbox. The time to do this is now, if I understand correctly
that
>the gearbox is out of the vehicle.

Yes, I am having to replace the frame.  Any ideas what pieces of the tranny
may need rebuilding/replacing or is this a take apart and check?  If the
latter, other then a broken tooth or wear on bushings/bearings what am I
looking for?
I have rebuilt a number of autos and two manuals (including a '27 American
LaFrance firetruck) so I feel capable of doing the work, just not sure what
to look for.  Manual says detent, selector or gears, anything else to check?

>Also just go ahead and replace the clutch disk, and the T/O bearing, and
the
>spigot bush in the flywheel. Also check the flywheel for flatness, and get
it
>refaced if it isn't flat.
>rebuild the gearbox. The time to do this is now, if I understand correctly

Good idea.  I have 2.5 years to do the restore, should be able to fit in the
tranny, haha
>BTW, don't buy your gears form RN, get them from Paddocks or the like. They
>rebuild the gearbox. The time to do this is now, if I understand correctly
can
>be had rather cheap I understand. I paid $800 in parts from RN, and I still
had
>to send some back because of poor machining, and they were all made in 3rd
>world anyway.

I have discovered that the shipping from England to HI will not be that much
more then from RN, with the current conversion rates, the UK seems best bet
for all my parts.

BTW, forgot to mention this is a 70 IIa trany incase anyone else has
soemthing to add.
Aloha
Pete

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 15:37:16 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Tranny pops out of gear.  

>BTW, forgot to mention this is a 70 IIa trany incase anyone else has 
>soemthing to add.
>Aloha
>Pete

oh. I thought it was a SIII. they have more of a tendency to pop out of gear. 
the iia uses a straight cut 1st gear. My statments were based on the assumption 
that you were talknig about a SIII. However since the gearbox is out of the 
vehicle and you would be unable to test it, I would pull it apart, and check 
the condition of the shift forks, the gear teeth, shafts, bushings, bearings, 
etc. Before disassembling the gears from the shafts, check the end float 
measurements as per the manual. This could be the cause of the popping out as 
could worn gear teeth. I always thought helical gears were more likely to pop 
out than straight cut ones but maybe I am wrong. 
As for what to replace, I think you could reasonably expect to replace 1st and 
2nd gear, and their corresponding gears on the layshaft.
 Maybe the 3/4 synchro. 
definitely replace the 2/3 gear mainshaft bushing. 
bearings are often in good condition, and can be checked. 
seals will need to be replaced.

the intermediate gear of the t-box has to come out, so fix its end float while 
you are in there.

its up to you how much of the t-box you take apart, mine worked great so I left 
it alone. It does pop out of gear about once or twice every two years. no 
problem. Usually I think it's becuase it isn't properly engaged.

oh, and do replace those detents tooo....:)

later
dave

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 98 12:41:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear.

>When my Rover (still searching for a name) was still on the road it would
>sometimes pop out of first gear when driving down hill and using engine
;>compression breaking.  Was told that it is simply a detent ball/spring 
that
;>needs changing.

A weak or wrong spring could cause this problem.

A more likely source would be if the edges of the first gears were 
rounded off.  If someone were not careful double clutching when shifting 
from second to first on the move they will eventually grind the edges of 
the gear faces round so that the transmission would slip out of gear.  Or 
this could just be a extream wear pattern.  Most likely you will need to 
replace both first gears.

TeriAnn Wakeman                                  Border to Border
Santa Cruz, California                          Expedition Society 
twakeman@cruzers.com                           "Live the adventure"
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman           http://www.bordertoborder.com

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:51:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Overdrive Manual/pictures

I have several pictures of a Toro at:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jimfoo/rover.htm
I got a copy of the manual from somebody, and it shows a screw in
dipstick. Mine also pushes in however. It is noticeably larger than a
Fairey, taking much more 90wt, 2 pints I think. hope this helps.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab

Bob and Sue Bernard wrote:
> Hi All,
> I'm still wondering if my second 88's overdrive might be a Toro.
> Does anyone have pictures or a manual for the Toro?
> My overdrive is 1/3 longer than the Fairey but otherwise looks like the
> Fairey.
> Threaded dipstick etc. Did Toro ever have a threaded dipstick? The few
> references I've seen have a slip in dipstick.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> lines in this one. This one is so quiet compared to the Fairey, so it must
> be Toro.

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From: Kirk Hillman <kdhillman@home.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:11:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Electric vehicles

I got caught up in the information and missed who actually wrote it.
These new Optima 31's, what are the specifics of these new batteries.  I
don't know battery lingo, but I thought 31 represented a class
specifying size and output.  Correct?  So 31 means what exactly?  Is it
an EV specific application or a good standard battery?
    So many questions I know, but this thread came up right when I
needed it.

Thanks,
Kirk Hillman and Banshee

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[spamkill: advert input: %s]	 Subject: Re: Bloody Knuckles Pub

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Sean Morrison <seanm@dnai.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Series I Fan

What follows is a plea for help.

While driving down the local high street I heard a bang and clatter and
looked back (easy to do as I was riding in the tilt at the time) to see a
piece of metal come bouncing out from beneath us.  We stopped and I ran
back to fetch it. Turns out to be a fan blade.  Upon opening the hood I
discovered that in true Series Land Rover form the beastie had thrown the
blade such that it neatly severed the lower coolant hose which was not so
neatly leaking coolant all over the place.  We drove the remaining way
home with the engine shaking in an unblanced maner and leaking coolant all
the way.  In true Series Land Rover form it got us home regardless. 

Now it's easy enough to find a new fan and procure a new hose but I'd
like, if at all possible, to replace the fan with another like it instead 
of a modern plastic jobbie.

Does anyone know where I can possibly purchase a fan for a 1954 Series I
107" Pickup?

Thanks in advance,
Sean Morrison

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 07:39:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear.

First of all lets talk about the reverse gear. Sandy was close when he talked
about a tapered shaft. The reverse gear shaft is in fact machined in the shape
of the letter Z. If you turn the letter on it`s side and elongate it you will
get the idea. The reverse gear has a natural tendency to move out of mesh  on
this "ramp" but is prevented by the limited selector shaft travel, not the ball
detent. This system remained in the Suffix A boxes. In suffix B and C gear boxes
the reverse shaft was changed to a similar system to that employed in the Range
Rover in which the shaft is a less expensive to machine straight piece with a
very clever "twisted" roller bearing in lieu of the bush used on the suffix A.
The principle remains the same and jumping out of gear indicates that either the
shaft, or the bush, or the gear is worn and has to be replaced.The Z shaft is
prevented from rotating by a roll pin which can only be accessed by removing the
transfer box.It is also possible to update from a suffix A. to B. or C.by using
various B or C components and a special reverse gear part FRC 1893.

Jumping out of 1st indicates the 1st./ 2nd.synchro hub is worn. The" locking"
mechanism is different on these gears.If you take apart the gear (first scribe
alignment marks on the inner and outer, and put it in a plastic bag as you push
it apart so that you don`t lose the springs and balls).You will see there are
splines, some thicker than others on the inner hub.They are grouped in fours,
four short and four long. The four short ones are slightly thicker than the long
ones. If you examine them you will see that one side of the splines aligns with
the long ones but the other side are misaligned. It is this "step" which
prevents disengagement when on the overun or downhill.The same thin/ thick idea
is also used on the low ratio gear on the transfer box. Close examination will
show that wear has either reduced the spline thickness or the corners of the
splines are slightly rounded. In either event replacement is the cure.One thing
that sometimes works if the condition is not too severe is to replace the detent
spring with a reverse detent spring which is much stronger and will help in mild
cases.The reverse detent spring is coloured yellow for identification.
Acquired wisdom will tell you that you do not partially rebuild a box, either do
it all, bearings,seals thrust washers etc or not at all...........Good judgement
is the product of experience, but experience is the product of bad
judgement......and I have something hanging on my wall that was delivered by
Dixon two days ago that would appear to qualify me in this regard........Ben you
sold me out, you, you ,you, #! ?**#@*!!! Revenge tastes better when eaten cold.
:-)

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:08:21 EST
Subject: Re: Tranny pops out of gear.

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
twakeman@cruzers.com writes:

<<  more likely source would be if the edges of the first gears were 
 rounded off.  If someone were not careful double clutching when shifting 
 from second to first on the move they will eventually grind the edges of 
 the gear faces round so that the transmission would slip out of gear.  Or 
 this could just be a extream wear pattern.  Most likely you will need to 
 replace both first gears. >>

Totally agree here.  I have been told by many that one rarely opens a IIa
gearbox that doesn't need new 1st gears--just too easy to grind.  The good
news is the IIa box is relatively easy to work on... I did it and god knows
I'm no whizbang.  While you're in there, if it's a IIa gearbox, I'd replace
all bearings, 3/4 synchro and the bronze bush on the mainshaft--it is almost
always fractured on the original box which is why the new bushes are a 2 piece
affair.  Check the shafts and other gears for abnormal wear.  Before removing
reverse gear, visually inspect it and check for excessive play in the bush.
If ok, leave it alone.  As for the throw out bearing, if it's a IIa, check it
for   its movement, it is probably ok, the IIa clutch withdrawl mechanism is
much hardier than the SIII.

I agree with Dave, check and possibly replace the clutch, have the flywheel
checked for flatness and if possible replace the pilot bush.  I also agree,
buy from Paddocks, LR Supermarket--not RN--even with shipping it'll probably
be about 1/2 as expensive.

It seems like a lot but if you're going in, you might as well replace the
things that wear out.

Good Luck

Nate

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From: "jos de vries" <ct915434@student.citg.tudelft.nl>
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:29:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

Keith wrote:
> Does any one with a 2.25 Diesel have a vacumn pump for their brake
 servo, if so where is it mounted? Do you need a dual pulley on the
 crank?
 
On the left down side, a plastic air pump driven by the separate pulley.
With an intake hose from high up to prevent pumping water.
This maybe not normal for the 'real' Land Rover's but this is the case with
the Santana.

Jos de Vries
Delft, The Netherlands

Santana 109 Especial '71 D
Land Rover 88 ex-mod '75? P

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:32:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: rebuilding early II(A) transmissions

I have a Series II or IIA transmission that I am in the midst of
disassembling. It has no suffix after the gearbox number.  It has the
smaller level plug, and the goofy spring clip (breather?) thingee on top,
which my parts catalog lists as suffix A only. Is there any difference
between the pre-suffix boxes and the suffix A ones?  How difficult is it
to source parts for one of these things?  The Rovers North catalog lists a
whole bunch of things as being NLA.  As my interest in fitting GenuWhine
parts is pretty much indistinguishable from zero, I don't care that they
don't sell 'em, as long as I can get well-made parts somewhere.  

Thanks,

David 

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:33:56 EST
Subject: Re: Do seals shrink in cold weather?

In a message dated 98-12-28 09:31:31 EST, you write:

<< I have just replaced a clutch MC that was rebuild in March 96. Both
 times, I saw fluid running down the pedal? This latest occurance and the
 last happened when it was really cold(20s). Do the seals shrink in the
 cold? How long should the seals normally last?
 
 Does any one with a 2.25 Diesel have a vacumn pump for their brake
 servo, if so where is it mounted? Do you need a dual pulley on the
 crank?
 
 Keith R. Mohlenhoff
 
 >>

Keith,

Based on VERY recent (and I'm talking about this very morning) experience, you
damn well better believe that seals can shrink in cold temps! The steering box
in my Rangie needs new seals (I've got 'em, but not the time to replace them),
and when it's very hot - no leaks at all: but when it's very cold, I'm topping
off the thing nearly every time I drive it! It used to hold a full cylinder
from home/work/back home, but not these last few days. (normally, two quarts
of fluid would last 2 1/2 - 3 weeks...I bought 2 quarts Saturday, and I'm
already on the second one!)

Diesel power brakes: In answer to the question about vacum pumps: I don't
think so...I've only seen a few diesel Landies with power brakes (mine
doesn't), and they got their vacum compliments of a valve that fits on the
end/elbow of the intake manifold - said valve is basically a sleeve that has a
throttle operated flap inside it (like a throttle in a carb) that holds the
vacum during deceleration, and is controlled by a rod connected to the
accelerator linkage...wish I had that setup a few weeks ago - but that's
another story.

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 02:46:39 EST
Subject: Re: Transfer Case

In a message dated 98-12-28 07:37:24 EST, you write:

<<  According to my Haynes a noisy
 transfer box is due to low oil (oil is OK), bad bearings (assuming for the
 moment that this is not the case), or excessive end-float of the
 intermediate gear. Before I tear the unit out I have several questions I
 hope some kind member(s) can help me with.
 
 1. From the symptoms described above does my diagnosis sound correct?
 Should I be considering any other possible causes?>>

...Could also be a worn shaft that was overlooked. Who's bearings were used?
There was a problem with a defective run of LR tranny bearings a year or two
ago (me being a victim of this), and it's possible that you got a few bad
ones. It could also be the brand of oil that you're using. (I know - a bunch
of s@#t, but really - I went through this in a MGB once: Quaker State did
nothing but cause gears to grind, while Sta Lube worked wonders - and yes,
both were the same grade!)

 
<< 2. I understand that the transfer case can be removed without removing the
 gearbox. Is it possible to rectify the end float situation with the
 transfer case in situ, or must it be removed and stripped for this?>>

Depends on exactly what the problem is: if it's the output shaft, then it
would be easier to yank it out again.
 
 <<3. Finally, if the problem is incorrect end-float, is this a problem that I
 can try to live with for a while if I don't feel like tacking this problem
 at the moment?>>
 
...How far do you have to drive it, and for how long? Does your life depend on
the vehicle being kept in perfect running order at all times?

Personally, I'd take it out, and strip it down to find the problem: if it is
in fact a worn shaft, then it doesn't matter - if you don't drive very
far/very often, and it can be driven in this condition for a very long time.
BUT - if you take it on very long trips, and you (and others) rely on your
vehicle, then it's best to have it in top condition.

 Any comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated. 
 
 Regards,
 
 John M. Baker >>

At least drain the oil, remove the access plate on the bottom of the case, and
have a looksee/feel for any excessive play, and go from there.

Charles

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