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From: WORKMEISTR@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:18:24 EST
Subject: Overdrive Manual Online

Hey, Art,
  Thanks for taking the time to scan the OD manual.  It was a great help while
installing my new (used) one.  Take care, Bren.

 From: Art Maravelis <amjas@gis.net>
 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 01:09:38 -0500
 Subject: overdrive manual online
 
 Greetings,
 
 In case anyone is interested in this go to:
 
 www.gis.net/~amjas/rover.html
 
 Art
 Boston, MA 
 
 ----- >>

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:01:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: additions to the Series Shed

While some of you have taken a look from time to time, many probably
haven't seen the site since the "Series Dictionary" was completed. With
much help and outside contribution, I've brought the site to its current,
much larger state. Please have a look at
http://jbroach.interspeed.net/rover

Some of the more interesting reads include:

In the Series Fun section: Sid's trip from Tennessee to Montana, the
Series Friends section (see Alan's Mr. C., John's Muddy, David's Bean
Toad, and others), some fun Solihull lit, and three great Series ads 

In the Series Tech section: Bill Rice's homebrew jerry can holder, the
Fairey OD manual, David Walker's painting guide, and the Series Market
parts exchange

OK, so it's blatant self-promotion, but hey it's not like I'm making money
off of the site :-) Enjoy,

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@fourfold.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 12:15:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk> writes:
> I'm prepared for some flak, so here goes ....

	No, just physics (and some chemistry I guess)

> I have a 1962 IIa 88" which I intend to convert to electric drive in the
> new year so Wilde EVolutions experience with their IIa is very
> encouraging. 

	Encouraging in what sense?  That it can be done?  Sure, its been
done before.  Even been done with other kinds of vehicles.  However, if
you thing that carrrying around two tons of batteries and having the
performance of a milk float is ideal, go for it. 

	When you consider the infrastructure involved, electric vehicles
are not that efficient when compared to gasoline.  Gasoline has more enery
per cubic foot that any other alternate fuel out there.  Your electric
vehicle is going to need a huge coal fired generating station somewhere,
huge inefficiencies in line loss getting the power to your socket for
recharging.  Christ, if everyone converted to electiric vehicles our
entire electrical distribution system would collapse the first evening
when people plugged in to recharge their efficient vehicles. 

	If this was such a good idea, don't you think it would have been
pushed long ago?

> I wait with baited breath for the outcome.

	Of this enquiry, or the conversion?

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From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 27 Dec 1998 17:35:37 -0000
Subject: 'missing posts' regarding David's grille badges...

Hi David,

As with any other non-commercial enterprise, you are welcome to post
periodically (e.g. weekly) to the list your notes for stuff to sell
(e.g. the grille badges).

Though you haven't really stepped over the line, the on-going replies and
responses to the list are in-appropriate, and thus will be dropped. As will
posts by others promoting the product.

Cheers,
	-Bill

Those interested in the grill badge designed by David Walker should
correspond with him directly at wahooadv@earthlink.net or see his previous
post to the list at http://land-rover.team.net/Year-1998/981227.html#12

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From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:59:01 -0800
Subject: Bloody  Knuckles Pub

For all those interested, you may take a look at the Bloody
Knuckles Pub grill badge at the following sites:
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6623/MISC/bkp.html
and http://jbroach.interspeed.net/rover/series_fun/BKP.html
take time to tour their sites also

( I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy when it comes to computers and Land
Rovers)

If you wish to order, please take time to follow the instructions
The badge is $30US for anywhere in the US - $35US for international orders.

	[David notes: I will be away from my terminal from Dec 29 - Feb 6th.
		I will be unable to post until then. -wpc]

I would like to thank the two people who worked with my vision of the
design - Cynthia Peterson and Howard Carter.

I would also like to thank the person who came up with the catchy
name.......at least he was the fellow who I got it from - Adrian Redmond,
although it may be Todd Schlemmer who came up with the very cool name for a
virtual pub.

Thank you, Mike Tompkins and Joseph Broach, for displaying on your web site.

I would also like to thank the list body as a whole - this list is a great
forum and I am glad to be part of it. I am also glad that I can serve the
list in some function (I try to keep my postings to the list to a minimum)

As has been said before, there is no real profit from the badge - I did it
because I collect grill badges (on my grill, of course) and because I wanted
one that was unique to the Land Rover community. I also wanted a badge that
was artistic and had mass appeal (I needed to get 30 orders so that I could
get it made), represented the list community, yet would not need explanation
to every other person. None of it would have been possible without the
volunteers who helped me.

I will place badge orders on February 15th - there will be no more made,
other than what has been ordered. Badges will arrive, to me, 6 weeks later -
you will get them within a week of there arrival to me. You can expect
something in the post by the first week of April - April 15th at the latest.

Thank you for you time, sorry for the bandwidth - but the badge is for the
band!

Oh, and so that it does not go unrecognized - Thank You Cindi (my wife) for
putting up with this so far (what do you think of this
colour/picture/design, dear?) and for agreeing to help me mail them (and
sort them - which you thought was madness).

If You have any questions, please email me OFF LIST and include
BKP in the subject

Cheers
David
Full-time father of Alexander - 4 years old, this winter solstice
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home, an Ingrid 38, ketch rigged
wahooadv@earthlink.net

end of message

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From: TBache9248@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:00:43 EST
Subject: manuals

Hi all,
Apologies if this was posted before.  Someone was looking for shop manuals for
Series L-R contact VossMotors@aol.com
They have them listed on their site //members.aol.com/VossMotors/

Tom Bache

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 21:33:50 +0100
Subject: Electric vehicles

I was interested in the Electric landy subject and browsed at the
website with the motor adverts - but nowhere could I see the simple info
which seems relevant when discussing this subject - answering questions
like -

How many batteries does it take (number / weight) ?
Where are these installed?
What speeds and power/torque is produced incomparison the the stock LR?
How many miles/km is the endurance?
How long does it take to charge?
What is the comparitive energy cost (to the user) per mile/km?
How long does the motor last?
What does the conversion involve and cost?

The subject is of academic interest to most of us, but this interest
wanes when met with fangled descriptions of unknown technology and no
real infor which the uninitiated can relate to? This may be one of the
reasons that "alternative" energy is so often slow at being accepted.

I commend anyone who tries this - trial is the basic prerequisite for
progress - but I remain unconvinced - here in Denmark there have been
several attempts at marketing an electric car, all of which have taken
as their starting point an very low weight body and frame - I can't see
how a truck weighting in at over 1.5 tons will be competitive
energywise.

And despite Denmark's expertise in the alternative energy field, these
vehicles here (quite nice looking, but little more than an electric
invalid carriage with 2 seats and a glass fibre body shell) have had
enormous problems making the sales necessary to acheive success.

Like others, I voice cynicism as to the environmental sense of moving
energy production from the effective combustion engine to the power
plant. All right for the golf course, but a tad innefficient for the
autobahn?

Happy Christmas folks!

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
"Native Experience" - production unit in Alaska USA
telephone			     (907) 230 0359
e-mail				channel6@alaska.net
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: Kirk Hillman <kdhillman@home.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:57:08 -0700
Subject: Batteries

Hello all,
    It has been a good long while since I have had the Banshee out now.
The reasons are many, but the most compelling reason is a dead battery.
In considering a new battery for replacement, I have come across these
new -spira-cel- ? batteries that are gel cell batteries and supposed to
be the newest and best things.  Does anyone have any experience with
them?  Also, I would like to install a dual battery system in the
Banshee so I don't kill off the new battery like I did the old one.  For
this I had considered the deep cycle version of these new batteries.
Does anyone have any handy or useful hints on an installation like this
(like where to put the second battery perhaps?)?

Thanks in advance,
Kirk Hillman
and The Banshee Hillman

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From: Robert McCullough <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:24:24 -0500
Subject: wheel hub

while removing a rear wheel i broke a stud off in the hub, about an inch is
still extending out. these are the threaded type. any ideas on how to
remove what is left?

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From: Bombdiver@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:15:33 EST
Subject: Clutch woes

 Hope that everyone had a Happy Christmas. I’ve been a list lurker for the
past couple of years and up to now, the list has managed to answer all my
questions without me asking them. Until now. I’ve rebuilt the master cylinder
as well as the slave cylinder in addition to replacing the flex line. My
concern now is, how much travel should I be getting out of the push rod on the
slave cylinder? I’ve adjusted the pedal height as well as the amount of free
play in the pedal. Right now I’m getting about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch of travel
in the rod. The push rod is at the recommended setting (2 7/8”) but at full
pedal depression, the bottom of the slave piston is no where near the 1/8”
mentioned in the Green Bible.  Is it time to fork over some of the Christmas
money and get a new master and slave cylinder?

Thanks
Andy Baran
95 Discovery
71 SIIA

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 00:52:14 +0100
Subject: Re: Clutch woes

It is (IMHO) unlikely that age, wear or tear can alter the depth of the
master or slave cylinders, or the length of the pistons - in which case
your system must have something "repairable" wrong with it. I know that
I'm probably repeating the logic which you have already gone through a
hundred times in your head - but this is how I see it...

Check and rebuild master cylinder - check piston travel and "watertight"
OK
Check/replace/rebuild hydraulic lines and rubber hose between firewall
and motor
Check and rebuild slave cylinder - check piston travel and "watertight"
OK
Reassemble, adjust pedal travel to no backlash and correct pedal height
Refiill with fluid and bleed

If all these are done properly, AND if the cylinders are not scored (and
therefore leaking or not transmitting the entire push of the pedal to
the slave) AND if the system is completly free of air bubbles (your
slave bleed screw is mounted ABOVE the hydraulic inlet isn't it?) then
the system should, would and will work.

Unless we've both missed something cardinal?

Good luck - no new words of wisdom, but sometimes repeating the obvious
may help?
 

Adrian Redmond

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:02:37 +0100
Subject: Re: wheel hub

This is easiest with the hub on the workbench.

The stud is screwed or pushed through from behind the hub plate, and is
tight!

Ideas for loosening -
Heat - either with a flame - or use a welder to spot the backside of the
stud to heat it up.

Ideas for removal -
Grind the broken end flat enough to cut a slot in the end, so that you
can use a screwdriver to turn it

or (worse case)

angle grind the back of the stud off, so that it may be screwed out
"forwards" - i.e. towards the outside of the hub.

or (even worse case)

grind one side of the stud flush with the hub, carefully centre punch
and drill stud out, insert new stud and weld in place (you will have
damaged the thread by drilling)

or (easiest option maybe)

visit local break and buy new (used) hub - or even order a new one - I
don't think they're that expensive

Good luck!

Adrian Redmond

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:28:38 -0600
Subject: How to bench bleed master cylinder?

I rebuilt my master cylinder and I have never bench bleed a master cylinder
before.  What is the process?

Does the use of an Eezi-bleed eliminate the need to bench bleed?  I can't
imagine that I will be able to replace the pedal assembly after bench
bleeding without moving the pedal and negating all my hard work.

Cwolfe

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From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:19:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Electric vehicles

At 09:33 PM 12/27/98 +0100, you wrote:
>website with the motor adverts - but nowhere could I see the simple info
>which seems relevant when discussing this subject - answering questions

Keep in mind that an electric conversion is not a out-of-the-box kit or
anything.  There have been some done, but each is still very much a custom
job.  

It's not something to be taken on as a weekend project like a heathkit
radio.  You need to do the research and learn about all your options before
you start pulling engines out of vehicles.  

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/

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From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:19:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Electric Rover, for gods sake why mess with it???

At 03:46 PM 12/24/98, you wrote:
>	This is something that just doesn't make sense.  You've got a classic
>vehicle that is appreciating in value as it becomes more scarce.  You want
>to take this treasure and mess it up.  I know your conscience will feel

If you own a Land Rover as an investment, then I've got some really
wonderful investment property to sell you.  (Certainly, you wouldn't
actually *drive* your classic Landy -- heavens, it might get scratched or
dented!)

>pollutants.  In reality though, you've just exported the pollution to the
>location of the electrical plant where the recharge juice will come from.

So which is easier to filter/clean up -- a single power plant, or all those
individual tailpipes?

>Meanwhile the batteries will have to be replaced periodically so all that
>lead ends up in a landfill somewhere if it is not recycled and isn't 100%

Yes, and they'll end up in your garage if you forget to get rid of them.
Sure, they might end up in a landfill, and I even know some folks who would
just dump 'em in a landfill -- but they don't drive electric vehicles.
People who drive electric vehicles are pretty likely to make sure they get
recycled well.

>recovered if recycled.  Also with the axles and aerodynamics of the rover,
>it makes a very poor choice as an economy vehicle.  

But it is actually a good choice for an electric vehicle.  

>	With your tremendous commute (4 miles), might I suggest a bicycle.  The
>environment will not suffer nearly the damage that the electrical

A bicycle would be an excellent solution -- perhaps.  If the person in
question doesn't have a lot of stuff to carry to work, or doesn't live in
an extreme climate, or doesn't have a physical limitation, sure.  

>	With the extremely poor efficiency of todays battery technology, do
>electric vehicles really make any sense except in areas where exhaust gases

Haven't kept up on current battery technology, have you?  

>	If you still insist on an electric vehicle, why don't you convert an
>American or Japanese 2wd pickup.  They are available cheap and are as
>common and exciting as dirt.  They are more aerodynamic than the rover,
>have less rotating mass to waste the precious little energy the batteries
>store, and a great big bed to hold the lead mine that you need to carry

Either you mean a small pick-up or a full-size.  Small pick-ups have the
same or less space for batteries as a Rover.  Full-size pick-ups are as
little or less aerodynamic.  As to rotating mass, sure, that's fine, but if
all anyone was interested in, we'd all be driving Mazda 323's.  If you want
off-highway capability, you want a Rover.  If you want to combine economy
and Roverness, you convert a Rover to electric.

I haven't been following the list much, but as I have an 88" in the yard
waiting to be converted, messages about Electric Land Rovers do tend to
catch my eye.  And, I'm not alone.  Wilde has done at least one other LR
conversion, and before I signed off the EV list, there were at least a
handful of LRO's on that list as well.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/

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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:36:39 -0500
Subject: Series II Wiring Diagram

    I added an image of a Series II Wiring diagram to my web site.
The image is courtesy of Keith Cutler.
    To get to my LR web site, point your browser to the following URL:
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6623/index.html
    You will find the link at the top of list.
    If anyone has anything like this that they would like posted, feel
free
to send it my way and I will do my best.

Happy Holidays

Rover On in '99
Mike
'66 109" Hybrid Coiler SW - "No Chance"

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 22:45:36 EST
Subject: wiring assistance

I replace the rear crossmember in Basil the Series III this weekend and in the
process of replacing parts of the rear wiring, I came across a green/brown
wire that I couldn't seem to locate in my wiring diagram.

I'm guessing it's the small white rear light (back-up???) on the left
rear..... mine doesn't (read: never) work and the screws didn't want to let me
pull the cover to get to the bulb to ring it out.  I guess the screws are
stripped but I'll give it another shot tomorrow.  

Thanks in advance...
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:38:27 -1000
Subject: Re: manuals

>Apologies if this was posted before.  Someone was looking for shop manuals
for
>Series L-R contact VossMotors@aol.com
>They have them listed on their site //members.aol.com/VossMotors/

Try the updated url:
http://www.books4cars.com/

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