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From: robot1@juno.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:10:14 -0800
Subject: Rover adventures

I took Sheila on her maiden voyage yesterday. It was only to the has
station down the street and back, but it was a start. ( I'd previously
only driven up and down the driveway and such). Anyway, it was a perfect
Rover experience as I ran out of gas less than a mile from the house. 

Partner and I pushed the big bugger as far off the road as we dared (12
foot deep ditch and soft shoulder) and I used the most valuable tool the
Rover owner can get, the Cellphone, to call the S.O. to have her bring 5
gallons of Lawnmower gas. She did, we put it in, it started back up, we
drove to the gas station and filled the rest of the way, drove home
again.

On the way back we caught sight of a 75 car funeral driving on the same
road. We missed being stalled at the head of the funeral by about four
minutes. So a little good and bad karma mixed. 

Mark Hardig
1967 109 regular "Sheila"

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 9:50:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

If you roll over with that thing it'll pull the mounting bolts right out 
of their holes unless you figure a way to tie the whole mess to the 
frame. What you have now is strictly for show.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:01:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: toe in

Re: toe in...all methods described previously should work, but the
one Dave Lowe described should work best.  It's important to be
able to measure at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, but you'll find that
it's tough to get the back measurement accurately since the 
springs will be in the way...so use a plum line like Dave suggests.

If memory serves, the front measurement is supposed to be between
1/16 and 3/32 shorter than the rear (check the manuals).  Whatever
it is...you'll probably find as I did that the degree of accuracy
(ie lack thereof) you obtain with your measuring technique doesn't
quite afford the accuracy you desire...hint: draw the thinnest
lines you can.

BUT, the problems you are apparently experiencing may not (just) be
due to poor toe in alignment.  What year is your vehicle?  If it's
an early SIIa or a SII it's probably got (warn) cones and springs
setups in the swivels.  While this type and the later railco
bushed types are both adjustable (by removing shims underneath the
steering arm mounts) it's typically reccomended that you replace
cone and spring types with railco bushes.  I had to do this to
Nige (SII) and it made all the difference in the world (and this
was after numerous attempts to adjust out the play with my
cone and springs).  Cost about a hundred bucks in bits.  OK, you
can probably find new cones and springs cheaper - and they would
keep things original - but the work involved is essentially the
same (assuming you replace the cones' races), so IMNSHO, it's
worth doing the upgrade.  Either way you need access to a press.

cheers, and good luck,
rd/nige

ps no fewer than five (and counting) of us are or were "180 out."

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From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:05:37 -0800
Subject: 180 dizzy

Hi all,
One thing that can cause the dizzy to be 180 out is when assembling the
engine, after installing the timing chain, then leaving the timing mark
lined up and installing the dizzy drive gear. This will end up with the
gear 180 out and you then either move the wires to match or rotate the
dizzy drive dog by driving the pin as previously mentioned.

When the timing marks on the crank and cam are lined up even though #1 is
at top dead center, it is the exhaust stroke not compression stroke, and
you don't see this because the head is still off.

Cheers,
Bob Bernard 

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 11:14:08 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap. 

>If you roll over with that thing it'll pull the mounting bolts right 
>out of their holes unless you figure a way to tie the whole mess to the 
>frame. What you have now is strictly for show.

Well, he did say he was reinforcing it with steel from underneath. I think it 
would work fine in a low speed roll. Multiple roll over on the highway, 
probably not. I've heard enough stories about bodies seperating from the 
chassis. Best bet is something like on the D90 where it is bolted to both 
chassis and body.

I would be pretty comfortable with a roll bar like the ones on military 90's 
and 110's that bolt to the cappings.

its better than nothing. And don't forget for a minute that that aluminum 
hardtop aint much safer...see if I can find that link again...nope...oh 
well...later
daveb

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From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:29:32 -0500
Subject: FINSUPdate: On the road again!

Picked up FINSUP from Precision Performance yesterday--just in time for the 
cold snap. For those that don't know, it was getting Turner #2--the first 
having split a piston after 4K miles. The new engine seems strong--but then 
again so did the first one. Time will tell, but I've got a good feeling 
'bout this one. New Zenith carb is also a big improvement--should have 
replaced that damn piece-o-crap the first time around. A special out-loud 
thanks to Charlie Haigh and the folks at Rovers North who stood behind 
their product and made this traumatic process go as smoothly as it could.

It was really shocking to get behind the wheel of the Series rig after two 
months w/ "The Mistress"--I don't want to shock anyone but these damn 
things drive/ride like a truck! The steering effort...  the 'long-throw' 
crashbox... the total lack of brakes... the noise... did I mention the 
seats ain't that comfy? ;-)  Still smiling from the experience. What a 
glorious ride--glad to have her home. (Also I'm really glad that I'll be 
able to park with impunity during my X-mas eve *shoppin' safari*--what do 
you think about THAT, soccer mom?)

Seriously, it did feel like I had to learn to drive the beast all over 
again--at least for the first 2-3 miles. Fortunately it's like riding a 
bike--you don't really forget. I did do some less than stellar 3-2 
double-downs though--just when you thought you had the art mastered.

Head-to-head babe magnet trials to follow--stay tuned!

On another note, I got to take a brief test drive of a Discovery Series II 
yesterday. More refined and powerful than the Disco that Eric "AB" Riston 
and I took to Ottawa but I think there's too much assist dialed into the 
power steering. Didn't get a chance to try out low range or the automatic 
hill descent control. I couldn't find the seat adjuster switch for the life 
of me so I couldn't comment on the comfort zone. I'd have difficulty 
dealing with the 37K price tag too. In short, it's like riding a 
Honda--feels kind of nice while you're doin' it but you wouldn't want your 
friends to see you while you're at it.

Rovin' through the holidays...

jab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT
                  jeff@purpleshark.com
                   ==================
	Love is fine until you taste
	This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lage Nom Ai
                                                         

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 11:35:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap. 

>> (Ah... the advantages of a softtop in AZ during December.)

Oh yeah? greenHELL still has hers on too...20 degrees this am...
Not much difference from the hardtop in terms of warmth. the benefit of the 
soft top comes with the warm weather, but it is not much detriment in the 
winter. Except that it is usually rolled down and I can't see jack s**t in the 
blind spot...and the hardtop is quieter on the  highway, but now that my OD 
burnt out, the highway ain't quiet at all...

later
daveb
arlington VA

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 08:50:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Tyres

> I am a believer in throwing away the steering stops on a Land Rover so that
>maximum lock can be obtained, OK under max lock the tyre can rub on the
;>spring, so what, under these conditions it is only likely to occur at 
low
;>speed under tight manouvering when you need the lock.

I paid someone to do some front end work on my LR last year as I was 
leaving for a long trip.  The shop owner had his new apprentice finish up 
the job.  He didn't know about leaving steering stop bolts unscrewed part 
way.

I discovered this in Moab. I was coming off a steep (50 degree or so) 
slip rock descent to a deep sand flat area where I have to make a very 
sharp left turn.

The treads on the edge of the tyre cought the lower edge of the inside 
wheel well and ripped it up and over the tyre.  It ripped the bolt holes 
securing the bottom of the inner wing.

There is no way to easily get at the area from the inside under the air 
cleaner and battery box.  I had a heck of a time getting the inner wing 
back to where it belongs.

I make sure my steerig stops are adjusted.  Your results may vary 
depending on how you use your car and the terrain you drive in.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:13:33 -0500
Subject: re: snow chains

Ordered my chains from:

Quality Chain Corp
3365 N.W. 215th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124
Fax: (503) 614-8812
Phone: (800) 843-8824
Visit their website at http://www.chainquest.com

For FINSUP up I got a set of the european hoop style chains. A well made 
Turkish knock--off of the ungodly expensive German (Swiss? Austrian?) 
variety. Once you've figured out how they work, they go on and off quite 
easily. Quality also sells the more mundane variety of tire chain--which 
cost less. Note that the euro chains are designed for snow--not deep mud. 
If you want a mud chain, or an all-purpose set, discuss the options with 
the salesmen--I found them to be quite knowledgeable and helpful. They'll 
also make sure you get the correct size. Plan to order another set this 
year--I'll have chains on all corners for the Winter Romp. Usual 
disclaimer--no affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Speaking of driving through the frozen stuff did anyone else notice that 
Rovers North is now carrying Nokian Hakkapeliitta snow tires? I think 
Atlantic British has them too. When I went looking for 'snow shoes' for 
'The Mistress' the Hakkas came highly recommended by Bill "drivin' through 
the tundra in my Merkur" Caloccia and several others. In fact, it was the 
only real recommendation for serious snow driving--everything else falls 
short.  I'm considering getting a set for 'FINSUP'--though she'll probably 
have to do without this year. Not so much for snow--the Cooper M/S radials 
seem to do fine there--but for grip on icy roads. Anyone care to share 
experiences/opinions on winter tires for Landys?

RoverOn!

jab
==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

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From: "The Stockdales" <mstockdale@mho.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:20:29 -0800
Subject: Tire Chains in Colorado

I agree with Jim in saying that I have never needed chains on the Dinosaur
here in Colorado.  But If you do buy Snow chains buy WEED.  No not that
stuff.  WEED chains are about the best I have seen, used them on heavy
equipment in the mud.  I get no benefit from recommending them, just my
opinion.

Hurricane Mitch and the Red Dinosaur

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:37:10 EST
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

In a message dated 12/23/98 9:45:15 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
dbobeck@ushmm.org writes:

<< Oh yeah? greenHELL still has hers on too...20 degrees this am... >>

Opps.... should have said "the advantages of a rolled-up softtop in AZ in
December."

The folks in the office think I'm crazy as a loon for not putting the sides
down.  I called 'em wimps.  Afterall, it was only 38 degrees out and quite
frankly, the heater works well enough to keep me warm if I have a large jacket
on.  After the sun is up, I can do away with the jacket!

The cold front is supposed to drive the temps in to the low 30's here.  I
think I'll survive......

Merry Christmas!
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:40:42 EST
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

In a message dated 12/23/98 7:55:31 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
badams@usia.gov writes:

<< If you roll over with that thing it'll pull the mounting bolts right out 
 of their holes unless you figure a way to tie the whole mess to the 
 frame. What you have now is strictly for show. >>

As I was looking at it this morning, I kind of figured that out too.  There
ain't enough there.   I can see a simple solution:  bring a bracket from the
frame to up under the wheel wells.  Would that suffice?  (Just looking for
something while off-roading.... nothing will help in a high speed rollover.
Not that high speeds and LR's have much in common.)

Thanks!
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:58:13 -0500
Subject: new designs

The other day, a few of us were sitting around talking about camshaft
design amongst other things.  Robert Davis has done quite a bit of research
into this, going so far as to contact several manufacturers about start-up
and casting costs for a redesigned one for the 2.25.  Robert thinks the
original 2.25 cam is a dog (basically, 1957 technology), and though the 2.5
cam is a step in the right direction, a lot of improvement can still be
made.  How much improvement?  How about 115 hp?  The stock 2.25 petrol only
puts out, what? 77hp.  Of course, that would also entail porting and
polishing the head and replacing the oil bath air cleaner so's it could
breathe easier.

So, if you could get 115 ponies outta your 2.25 lump, what would it be
worth to ya'?  And how many folks would be interested?  (Start-up costs are
rather substantial.) We're not talking anything radical here...just a stock
engine upgraded and "modernized".  The stock engine is plenty strong
enough, limited by its camshaft and head design.  The roller followers
(apparently a revolutionary design for 1957) allow you to do some pretty
cool things.  

Cheers...and Merry Christmas to you all.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:18:56 EST
Subject: Squeaky wheel . . .

Howdy everybody,
Steering wheel squeaking.  Have squirted both white lithium grease and some
other lubricant up into the back of the wheel, to no avail.

Ideas?--I'd hate to have to take the wheel off--probably break my nose when it
comes loose.

Bill Rice

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From: WORKMEISTR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:18:54 EST
Subject: Georgia to Kansas Trek

Happy Holidays, Folks,
  On either the 1st or 2nd of the new year I will be driving from Columbus, GA
to Leavenworth, KS.  The itinerary and route is open so I would love to hook
up with some Rover people enroute on Saturday and Sunday.  I'll be driving the
'72 88" (With new D-90 rear tow hitch and OD I stayed up until 1 a.m.
installing last night).  I'm also interested on some points of contact along
the way if I run into any problems.  I won't be able to take along my usual
supply of spares due to limited space, so any offers of assistance would be
greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance and I should get myself to Walmart to
find some tire chains!  Bren.

Bren Workman
109 Dublinsky St
Ft. Benning, GA 31905
(706) 689-2934
workmeistr@aol.com
'72 88"  "Tilly"
'65 109" SW  "Baldwin"
'90 RR  (as yet unnamed, but considering "Money Pit')

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:37:01 +0100
Subject: Re: groovy seals - please clarify!

All this talk of grooved pulley wheels has got me confused. A lot of the
people who have posted on this topic, warn of the dangers of a grooved
shaft, which lets the oil spill out of the front cover, even though the
seal is good.

What is this shaft - isn't this the end of the cranckshaft - and
therefore too expensive/difficult to replace for a "simple" leak? - and
how does the seal groove the pulley wheel? There is a retaining plate
between the two. Come to think of it, how does a plastic seal groove
anything in that region.

I don't doubt the existance of the phenomena, but I am clueless as to
the definition of what the problem is, what the signs are, and what the
cure is.

And what is this Speedy sleeve anyway?

Help someone?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
"Native Experience" - production unit in Alaska USA
telephone			     (907) 230 0359
e-mail				channel6@alaska.net
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:38:09 +0100
Subject: Re: new designs

Let's hear more!

Adrian Redmond

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 10:54:58 -0800
Subject: Re: new designs

Hi Sandy!
I thought Robert had given up on the LR four in favour of the Mercruiser 
engine.

I'm not 100% sure if you are talking just building & selling cams & 
assume that others will modify their engines to make full use of the new 
cam or if you are talking about selling cams and complete hot rodded 
engines.  If you are thinking of engines...

The 2-1/4 engine is reaching an age where parts will become harder to 
find.  If memory serves the only new heads available are the 2.5L heads.  

If you are going to sell hot rodded LR petrol engines why not start with 
the 2.5L?  You get five main bearings supporting the crank instead of 
three mains that came in the early engines that were imported to the 
states.  You get an extra 1/4L capacity and new parts will be available 
longer than for the old three main engine.

You basically start off with a much newer slightly larger engine that has 
a much stronger bottom end and will have new parts readily available when 
people will be happy to find serviceable 3 main engine specific parts 
used.  Look what is happening to parts availability for the '58 - '61 
version of the 2-1/4L engine. It may not be all that long before the same 
starts happening to the other 3 main 2-1/4L engines.

>  Of course, that would also entail porting and
>polishing the head and replacing the oil bath air cleaner so's it could
>breathe easier.

It is my understanding that the exhaust valves limit breathing.  Is there 
space in the head to install larger exhaust valves?

Also for breathing I assume you have carb ideas too?  I like the idea of 
a 2 inch SU.  The SU design seems to be the most tolerant to changes in 
altitude, and is a very simple design that works very well and provides 
very good fuel mileage with the correct needle installed.

Where is the costs of cam design?  A friend of my step father designed 
and manufactured racing cams.  I got the impression that a lot of his 
time was spent installing test cams in his race cars.  Of course now he 
already owned a cam lathe.

Take care

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:52:18 -0700
Subject: Re: groovy seals - please clarify!

Adrian Redmond wrote:
= 
= All this talk of grooved pulley wheels has got me confused. A lot of
the
= people who have posted on this topic, warn of the dangers of a grooved
= shaft, which lets the oil spill out of the front cover, even though
the
= seal is good.
= What is this shaft - isn't this the end of the cranckshaft - and
= therefore too expensive/difficult to replace for a "simple" leak? -
and
= how does the seal groove the pulley wheel? There is a retaining plate
= between the two. Come to think of it, how does a plastic seal groove
= anything in that region.
Actually the seal rides on the part of the pulley that fits over the
crankshaft and goes into the block. The groove is formed slowly by bits
of dirt between the seal and pulley which slowly grind away the metal.
Just like the groove that forms in the distance piece that the hub seal
rides on.
I can't comment on speedy-sleeves other than to say that they sound like
very thin walled pipe that fits over the pully shaft and give a new
surface for the seal to ride on.

Jim Hall

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:14:29 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap. 

>The cold front is supposed to drive the temps in to the low 30's here.  I 
>think I'll survive......

really? It was in the 60's here just a few days ago. Sure is cold there. Glad I 
live out east...

:)

later 
dave

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:03:00 -0700
Subject: this is why axles break

"In order for a splined shaft to carry its maximum torsional load it is
necessairy to have a working shaft diameter smaller than the major
spline diameter. The reduced section after the spline(which rovers don't
have) works in the same manner as a torsion bar allowing the rotational
wind up over a longer area. This prevents the axle from deforming to a
permanent twist. Axles that are not undercut will develope twisting at
the end of the spline engagement and eventually fail at this point."

Sound familiar?

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:07:17 -0700
Subject: Re: new designs

I would like to hear more also. Can you get a price quote on various
quantities to let us know what we might be in for? another option could
be having the existing cam shafts built up and reground, but I don't
know how the prices would compare. Let us know.

Jim Hall

A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice wrote:
> The other day, a few of us were sitting around talking about camshaft
> design amongst other things.  Robert Davis has done quite a bit of research
> into this, going so far as to contact several manufacturers about start-up
> and casting costs for a redesigned one for the 2.25.

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:33:57 -0000
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

>>>I use stop leak products.  My favorite is to use good old
Silica gel.  You can find this as water glass some places.  It goes into
solution but will "clot<<<<

old country trick is to break eggs into the radiator...
we were doing this on a Hill Rally in the pits when up came the TV crew to
film it. After the third egg my mate grabbed the Lemonade bottle "Is that
going in there as well" said Tony Mason (Brit tv reporter and idiot) "No,"
said my mate, "It's going into me."
They used it on the Telly prog!!
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:20:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

If I could be only so lucky to have low 30's. -21 monday morning when I
went to work in Colo. Luckily the clutch mc was leaking in the rover
(because otherwise I would have driven it. It has the round smith's), so
I had to drive the bronco which has slightly better heat and
acceleration. Don't get me wrong though. I do like driving the rover
better as it's my daily driver. I ordered the parts today from our list
sponsor, who also happens to have a christmas flyer out with 88 brake
shoes on sale for $24.99(for those of you who put off buying them like I
do). Just thought I'd mention it as it is a really good price.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab
1968 Mercury Cougar
1969 Mercury Cougar
1974 Scout II
1974 Camaro super stock
1975 Jeep J10 pickup
1981 Bronco
David R. Bobeck wrote:
= 
= >The cold front is supposed to drive the temps in to the low 30's
here.  I
= >think I'll survive......
= really? It was in the 60's here just a few days ago. Sure is cold
there. 
= Glad I live out east...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:37:16 -0500
Subject: Re: new designs 

At 02:26 PM 12/23/1998 -0500, Dave Bobeck wrote:

>>So, if you could get 115 ponies outta your 2.25 lump, what would it be
>>worth to ya'? 

>umm, I guess as long as he promises to suuply me with a 5 bearing crank
>and  block when the 3 beraing lets go...

>ok, maybe I'll try it anyway.

>what does the standard crank cost. usually performance cranks aren't much
>more than a new one. 

Not crank...camshaft....

>Robert has to be willing to produce these things. You can't just expect
>people to pony up the bucks. If he builds it and can sell it for a
>reasonable price he may get enough takers. 

Obviously...but he has to come out of pocket 15k to get the first one
built...I don't know of too many other people willing to speng $15k of
their own money on R&D to better the plight of Rover owners nation- (or
world-) wide....  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:38:00 -1000
Subject: Re: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

>As I was looking at it this morning, I kind of figured that out too.  There
>I can see a simple solution:  bring a bracket from the
>frame to up under the wheel wells.  Would that suffice?

If you're going to use one piece og plate under each wheel well and then
drop down two legs per side to the chassis, should work like a charm.  A
piece of 1-1/2 square 3/16 wall tubing will be strong enough.

______
         /
       /
    /
|/
Hope the above comes out as intended.
Good luck
Pete

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 14:46:08 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: new designs 

>If you are going to sell hot rodded LR petrol engines why not start with 
>the 2.5L?  You get five main bearings supporting the crank instead of 
>three mains that came in the early engines that were imported to the 
>states.  You get an extra 1/4L capacity and new parts will be available 
>longer than for the old three main engine.

because there are no 2.5's in the states. you have to bring them over and that 
costs money. also, you can't use any of the 2.25 bits. 2.25 5-bearing would be 
a better option, then people could swap over all of their pieces. except for 
timing belt and gears, and the crank is different, so it would have to come 
with a fylwheel and housing. I think 5 brg 2.25 petrols are a little more rare 
though. I know of a guy who has drilled out the oil passages to allow use of a 
timing chain on the 2.5 block. 
2.25 and 2.5 Heads are interchangeable. I believe new 2.25 heads are still 
around but they are all metric, like the 5 bearing engines. I haven't noticed 
any shortage of parts for the 2.25, remember this motor was used up until the 
early 80's...probably can still buy a complete new motor. 
I like the idea of a 2.5 but i've been told that (a). you don't get much wallop 
for your pound and that (b). it's a pain in the ass for parts. Hello Rovers 
north...ughh...how much??

I like your ideas about larger exahust valves and the SU's. I noticed in the 
manual for my old volvo that the american versaion with dual SU's made about 10 
more HP than the one with just one...volvo had a nice one piece manifold 
(exhaust and intake cast in one piece) with a dual downpipe exhaust, and dual 
intake...sweet...like to see that for a rover...

later
daveb

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:51:16 -1000
Subject: Re: new designs 

>Obviously...but he has to come out of pocket 15k to get the first one
>built...I don't know of too many other people willing to speng $15k of
>their own money on R&D to better the plight of Rover owners nation- (or
>world-) wide....  Cheers

Uhmm, can't you have the work done on the cam by any good race shop for less
then a k?  Or is the problem in determining exactly how much to build each
lobe?
Pete

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:50:55 -0700
Subject: Re: new designs

Peter Hope wrote:
= 
= >Obviously...but he has to come out of pocket 15k to get the first one
= >built...I don't know of too many other people willing to speng $15k 
= Uhmm, can't you have the work done on the cam by any good race shop
for less
= then a k?  Or is the problem in determining exactly how much to build
each
= lobe?
I think the $15k is to manufacture a brand new cam, not modify an old
one.

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:28:00 -0800
Subject: RE: Brake light switch

     When mine went last year, along with several other fiddly electronic 
     bits (try sorting out no break lights when the switch is fried, a 
     bullet connection at the rear is loose, and there is a broken wire in 
     the harness where it goes into the frame!).  I ended up going down to 
     Crappy Tyre and picking up a brake light switch for 3 bucks.  It is 
     more or less tubular, about 3" long with a threaded section at one end 
     and two leads at the other.  A plunger switch is at the threaded end.  
     A piece of galvanized angle bracket was drilled and bolted to the two 
     brake pedal box bolts and the existing holes hogged out to make room 
     for the return spring and the switch.  The switch is installed so that 
     the plunger is depressed when the brake pedal is up, turning off the 
     current.  It turns on when the brake is pressed and the plunger is 
     released.  There are two jam nuts that can be used to adjust the 
     position of the switch.  This took longer to write than it did to 
     install.  Cheap, works, easy to troubleshoot, and I didn't have to 
     bleed the brakes...
     
     They also work well in each side of the dashboard to switch on 
     interior lights when the door opens.
     
     Clinton

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:07:00 -0800
Subject: funky cams

     Merry Christmas Sandy G,
     
     I could be pretty interested in a new cam if it was demonstrably 
     better.  But instead of 115hp (where would the torque curve be on that 
     puppy though?), I would be happier with something that improves 
     economy with around 85-90hp with a nice low peak torque.  What would 
     be really cool would be one that has that horsepower and a seriously 
     flat toruqe curve.  What I want
     1) 85-90hp
     2) flat torque curve or at least something with a low peak tourque
     3) better fuel economy (20 USmpg average would be nice).
     
     Of course, by the time this happens, I will probably have a diesel in 
     my rig and not ever care about gas engines again....  <g>
     
     While we are at it, why not get someone to design a new crossflow 
     head.....
     
     It might be worth testing the cams with an industry standard like the 
     Turner head, which is mildly ported but is not *too* expensive and is 
     relatively easy to get ahold of.  It would probably need to be 
     optimized for some carburettor or other (I am groping here as I know 
     not much about these blacke artes)
     
     Clinton

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:26:00 -0800
Subject: for David Bothe

     Can someone get this to David Bothe if he cannot answer?
     
     Hi David,
     
     I noticed that you have converted your 110 to a MB300 diesel...and 
     that there is a kit made in your home town.  I would be interested in 
     discussing this with you (costs, fitting troubles, options etc).  A 
     friend of mine is in the midst of desigining an adaptor to mate a 4cyl 
     MB diesel to the series LR.  The LT77 bellhousing for the 2.5/2.5td is 
     the same bolt pattern/clutch clearance as the 2.25 so any kit for the 
     one should work for the other.
     
     Thanks in advance
     
     Clinton Coates
     
     PS Please reply backchannel to the following address
     
     clinton_coates@bc.sympatico.ca

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:11:17
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new designs 

	Shipping engines from England is not cheap but not out of the realm of
reality.  After all, every Turner gets shipped over here.  Of course it is
cheaper per engine to ship a container than an individual engine.  
	I've recently installed a 5 main 2.25 and it is pretty much the same as
the 3 main with the exception of the bell housing, fly wheel and starter.
The 5 main uses metric bolts so the flywheel is different though will still
bolt up to the 3 main clutch.  The starter is similar to the Range Rover
starter and the bell housing is different to accommodate the different
shape of the starter.  As far as performance, they are supposed to be the
same as the 3 main.  I've found the 5 main to have a little more power
though this could be due to minor differences in the rebuild, tuning, etc.
The 5 main is a little less buzzy than the 3 main though this is hard to
measure objectively.  As far as costs, I bought a short engine (no head)
and it wasn't much more than it would have cost to rebuild the 2.25
including shipping and about half what a complete Turner would have cost.
	The 2.5 is supposedly identical to the 5 main 2.25 with the additional
displacement obtained by increased stroke and the timing being handled by a
belt instead of the chain arrangement of the 2.25.  Heads for the 2.5
should be interchangeable with the 2.25.  Its not clear whether you could
put a 2.5 crank into 5 main 2.25 block.  That's a question that needs to be
answered as it would be a way to increase torque, especially, at a
reasonable price for those of us with 5 main 2.25 engines.  
	When Dave talks about drilling out oil passages, is he referring to
changing the timing belt for the timing chain on 2.5 engines???
	If we are talking about costs.  It is cheaper, though maybe not a lot
easier, to replace a cam than the entire engine.  Just changing the cam
wouldn't make a big difference if you stick with the stock carburetor,
however.  Probably require the 2 barrel weber or Rochester to get the full
potential.  As far as porting and polishing and larger exhaust valves,
would you be getting better road performance at the expense of low end off
road performance???  Recall seeing an advertisement for the SU mod in an
issue of LROI.  Is it cheaper than the $500 two barrel weber with manifold.
 All of the knowledgeable local hot rod people tell me that typical hotrod
techniques other than displacement increase or higher compression penalize
the lower end for the benefit of the top end.  Can see me now, winding out
the old beast to 6 grand in the dirt because it won't pull below 3 grand.
Had this problem, along with a whole lot more, with my 4 cylinder Cherokee.
 Maybe an unacceptable trade off depending on the primary use of the
vehicle.  I know there are trade offs that would balance out the extremes
but is the cost worth it.
	The 2.5 cam costs less than $200.  Any idea what the cost of this new 
cam
would be.  Would have to be competitive with the 2.5 cam or offer a lot
more un compromised horse power.  
	Last but not least, how thirsty is this 100+ horsepower 2.25 going to 
be.
Can't see getting marginally better performance for a drastic reduction in
fuel economy.  15 MPG is my limit and that is what a stock 2.25 delivers.
Upping the horsepower would certainly bite into this fuel economy unless
the new cam makes it more efficient as well.
	My next project is sticking the 2.5 cam into the 3 main 2.25 and 
stuffing
that into the long dormant 109.  Still kicking around over boring it to 60
thousand but don't know if I can justify throwing away the perfectly good
20 over pistons and rings that are in it now.  	Before all this, I need to
get together with a local hot rod mechanic who rebuilt a stock 2.25.
Talked with the owner, who was another rover mechanic, and he claimed the
engine put out at least 10 more horsepower than any other Rover engine he'd
seen.  Curious as the engine was supposedly completely stock.
	As far as parts, I think that is a moot point.  3 main 2.25's are so
common that parts may be available forever.  Would expect the bulkheads to
be the main reason for a series rovers demise than engine parts.
	Which gets me off on another tangent.  Any rumors about someone
manufacturing new IIa bulkheads.  Mines not going to last another 30 years.

Aloha Peter

At 02:46 PM 12/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>If you are going to sell hot rodded LR petrol engines why not start with 
>>the 2.5L?  You get five main bearings supporting the crank instead of 
>>three mains that came in the early engines that were imported to the 
>>states.  You get an extra 1/4L capacity and new parts will be available 
>>longer than for the old three main engine.
>because there are no 2.5's in the states. you have to bring them over and

that 
>costs money. also, you can't use any of the 2.25 bits. 2.25 5-bearing
would be 
>a better option, then people could swap over all of their pieces. except for 
>timing belt and gears, and the crank is different, so it would have to come 
>with a fylwheel and housing. I think 5 brg 2.25 petrols are a little more
rare 
>though. I know of a guy who has drilled out the oil passages to allow use
of a 
>timing chain on the 2.5 block. 
>2.25 and 2.5 Heads are interchangeable. I believe new 2.25 heads are still 
>around but they are all metric, like the 5 bearing engines. I haven't
noticed 
>any shortage of parts for the 2.25, remember this motor was used up until
the 
>early 80's...probably can still buy a complete new motor. 
>I like the idea of a 2.5 but i've been told that (a). you don't get much
wallop 
>for your pound and that (b). it's a pain in the ass for parts. Hello Rovers 
>north...ughh...how much??
>I like your ideas about larger exahust valves and the SU's. I noticed in the 
>manual for my old volvo that the american versaion with dual SU's made
>>longer than for the old three main engine.
about 10 
>more HP than the one with just one...volvo had a nice one piece manifold 
>(exhaust and intake cast in one piece) with a dual downpipe exhaust, and
dual 
>intake...sweet...like to see that for a rover...
>later
>daveb
>manual for my old volvo that the american versaion with dual SU's made

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Chris Dillard" <cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:19:12 -0500
Subject: Leaving for the Holidays

Un-Subscribing for the Holidays. Hope that all have a safe and happy
Holiday Season. From the looks of it outside , it's gonna be an ICY
Christmas here in the South!! HOpe to get some sandblasting done on the
Hornet!!

Cheers,

Christopher (with goggles on!!)Dillard Dba
95 Discovery V8i (Rusty II)        cdillard@aholdusa.com
55 Series I    (???)                     Greenville, SC USA
55 Series I (The Green Hornet)
1989 Thoroughbred Racehorse (the other Rusty!!)
SoLaRos #136

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 17:39:50 -0500
Subject: Re[4]: new designs  

        >Shipping engines from England is not cheap but not out of the realm of
>reality.  After all, every Turner gets shipped over here. 

and that is why every turner costs almost twice as mucha as a domestic 
rebuilt unit...
 
        >I've recently installed a 5 main 2.25 and it is pretty much the same as
>the 3 main with the exception of the bell housing, fly wheel and starter. 
>The 5 main uses metric bolts so the flywheel is different though will 
>still bolt up to the 3 main clutch.  The starter is similar to the Range 
>Rover starter and the bell housing is different to accommodate the 
>different shape of the starter. 

you may have gotten a 2.5 bellhousing. The starter was the same on the 5 
bearing 2 1/4. The 5 brg. 2 1/4 bellhousing (flywheel housing actually) 
WILL fit the 2.5, and vice versa. Flywheel housing got changed   whne they 
switched form 3 to 5 brg because the cranks were totally different.

        >When Dave talks about drilling out oil passages, is he referring to
>changing the timing belt for the timing chain on 2.5 engines???

yes. fellow up in alberta was doing that. converting 2.5 diesels to 2.5 petrol, 
using: 2 1/4 petrol head, 5 brg. 2 1/4 flywheel housing, (don't recall if the 
flywheel itself needed changing), and then drilling out the oil passage to allow
use of the 2 1/4 timing chain set up. This would allow it to fit into a series 
vehicle with no mods to the engine mounts, since the 2.5 deisel has a totally 
different set up for the injector pump (runs off the timing belt) and therefore 
has a big ol' timing cover in the way of the right side engine mount. oh yes and
standard 2 1/4 petrol intake and exhaust bits. said they got 65-70 mph out of 
them all day long. Sounds good enough to me.
Also gets rid of that stupid belt set up. Weak link those are... 
        
later
dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:49:41 -0000
Subject: Re: Squeaky wheel . . .

>>Steering wheel squeaking<<

Bill,
I'd hate to say how often I've found that the squeak came cos the wheel boss
is rubbing on the plastic shroud - I guess you'd have spotted this
but..........
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:05:21 EST
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new designs

In a message dated 12/23/98 2:11:37 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
ogilvi@hgea.org writes:

<< Which gets me off on another tangent.  Any rumors about someone
 manufacturing new IIa bulkheads.  Mines not going to last another 30 years.
<< Which gets me off on another tangent.  Any rumors about someone

Either LRO or LRM had a note about a guy making bulkheads for the SI but made
no mention of the other variants.  Let me know if you want to pursue it and
I'll look it up.

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 98 17:42:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new designs 

>>If you are going to sell hot rodded LR petrol engines why not start with 
>>the 2.5L? 
;>because there are no 2.5's in the states. you have to bring them over 
and 
;>that costs money.

I'm not sure when they went from the 3 main 2-1/4 to the five main 2-1/4 
but I suspect that parts specific for the late versions of the 3 main 
engine will be starting to dry up or become very expensive within the 
next ten years.  The 2.5 engine is the last version of hte engine & will 
be the easiest to get parts for in the long run.  Plus you get a bit of 
extra torque.

If people start swapping in 2.5L engines in the states the US parts 
companies will start carring parts.  Ether that our you can source them 
directly from the UK for sme or less than you can get parts for the 2-1/4 
in the states.

Of course now if you plan to sell your Rover before then it doesn't 
matter.

;>I like your ideas about larger exahust valves and the SU's. I noticed 
in the 
;>manual for my old volvo that the american versaion with dual SU's made 
;>about 10 
;>more HP than the one with just one...volvo had a nice one piece 
manifold 
;>(exhaust and intake cast in one piece) with a dual downpipe exhaust, 
and 
;>dual intake...sweet...like to see that for a rover...

The TR3 intake manifold almost fits without modifications.  I just 
happened to have both my TR3 and LR engines appart at the same time in 
the early ninties and checked.  The ports match up as do some of the 
mounting holes.  With a little work the TR3 dual SU intake manifold could 
be made to fit.  The engines are similar in size so the 1-3/4 inch SUs 
with the TR4 needles would probably be a good match.  A 2.1L TR3 engine 
gets fuel milage in the high twenties.  ANd the SUs deal well with 
altitude changes.

Just one problems for left hand drive LRs.  The steering box is in the 
way of a rear carb.  It would have to ba a right hand drive only 
conversion.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:47:15
Subject: Re: Is it a 2.5???  

	The mystery deepens.  Is it possible I have a 2.5 5 main, not a 2.25 5
main.  Anyone steer me to where I can check the engine serial numbers.  Its
raining cats and dogs right now so can't run out and check it without
getting soaked or I would post it.

	Mahalo for the information Dave.

Aloha Peter	

>you may have gotten a 2.5 bellhousing. The starter was the same on the 5 
>bearing 2 1/4. The 5 brg. 2 1/4 bellhousing (flywheel housing actually) 
>WILL fit the 2.5, and vice versa. Flywheel housing got changed   whne they 
>switched form 3 to 5 brg because the cranks were totally different.
        
>later
>dave

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:01:44
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new designs

	With a new engine, parabolic springs, a tail gate conversion, on the
vehicle this year and a soft top and hoops, new wheels and tires coming
soon for the 88 and an engine installation and synchro rebuild on the 109,
I'm not in the immediate position to buy a new bulkhead.  	In general new
bulkheads are something that's going to have come about if the existing
series IIa rovers aren't to dwindle even further, however.  Mines got
perforations coming through the flat sheet metal on the face which will
probably be the demise of the bulkhead.  Foot wells and door posts are
still intact and the frame is solid, strangely enough.

	Mahalo for the offer to look up the source, Gerry.  I just threw it out
there to see if anyone was actually going into production with a 2a
bulkhead.  Someone in NY has a few NOS bulkheads but they are $1,300 plus
shipping to paradise.  A bit out of my budget right now.  Assume that when
that guy sells out, there will be no more new ones till someone digs up the
dies and presses some new ones.  Have heard about the series 1 parts but
hear they are very expensive as he is a one man shop and are essentially
individually hand crafted to order.

Aloha Peter

>Either LRO or LRM had a note about a guy making bulkheads for the SI but made
>no mention of the other variants.  Let me know if you want to pursue it and
>I'll look it up.
>Cheers,
>Gerry Elam

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From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:47:31 -0600
Subject: llA Bulkheads

In answer to Peter Hope's question about a source for a llA bulkhead, I know
that East Coast Rover advertise a rebuild program where you send yours to
them and they send you a 'rebuilt' one for I believe a cool $1,000.

Alternatively, Craddocks in England advertise one for about GBP500 (net of
VAT).

I would be interested to hear if anyone has any comments on either of these
sources because I will also be looking for a new bulkhead before long.  My
footwells are shot and one door pillar is beginning to rust through.  Given
the high cost of having a competent body shop weld in the replacement bits
it makes a bulkhead replacement look like a real alternative.

And if you are thinking I should weld my own - I have signed up two years in
a row to the local technical college's basic welding course.  Both years the
course was canceled due to 'lack of demand'.

David Hope
64llA

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From: Robert McCullough <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:05:56 -0500
Subject: wipers

well on the way home from work tonight it was quite windy and cold with
lots of rain coming down so i was having to operate the drivers wiper motor
manually. after about 20 minutes of this i started up a bridge over the
lynnhaven inlet at the mouth of the chesapeake bay and suddenly, IT'S
ALIVE!!!!!!!! guess suzys bout of lucas flu was purged finally, at least
partially as the passengers side still is not working.  many thanks for all
the online advice and a special thank you for one rover owner who called me
long distance to offer his help, "Merry Christmas" everyone

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From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:27:08 -0500
Subject: Re: new designs

Shipping engines to North America isn't all the expensive. Dave Lowe, Larry 
Berti and
myself last summer imported two 2.25 5 brg. engines and 3 Salisbury axles, UK to
Toronto, for £300. With the prices we paid for the parts and the cost of 
shipping, we
got a good deal all round.

Brett

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

Shipping engines from England is not cheap but not out of the realm of reality.
After all, every Turner gets shipped over here.  Of course it is cheaper per
engine to ship a container than an individual engine.
(snip)

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From: Rovergo@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:46:36 EST
Subject: Dizzys? yes please.

Hi all
 All this talk about 180 out got me thinking on my rover ,at #1 tdc my rotor
points at # 3 plug wire and at # 3tdc my rotor points at # 6 plug wire but the
engine runs fine, And every time I step on the brake pedal a volkswagon beetle
pops out out from under the bonnet and says merry christmas to all. and why
does everyone keep talking about wimpy piss beer when they could be drinking
something real like akvavit, what say ye Adrian? anyways happy holidays all
.Pat.

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:10:17 -1000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: new designs

>Mines got
>perforations coming through the flat sheet metal on the face which will
>probably be the demise of the bulkhead.  Foot wells and door posts are
>still intact and the frame is solid, strangely enough.

Aloha Peter
would be interested in seeing just how bad it is.  Mine was severely
bent/dented/warped/tweaked, you name it.  I was able to drill out all the
spot welds.  Remove the panels.  Straighten the frame.   Hammer out the
panels.  Gonna sand blast, POR-15, and reweld together.  Not sure about door
posts, but the rest of the thing is just about all flat panels.  The bottom
of the foot well has some rolled beads, but they are available RN.
Heres an idea:  Send me a pic of the rust, maybe I can make up a new panel
by copying mine...
Pete

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	         "Scott Copeland" <sccrover@yahoo.com>,
[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	         "Dale Smith" <smithdv1@yahoo.com>,
From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:17:37 -0800
Subject: BKP Grill Badge

OK, I am not dead......nor is the Bloody Knuckles Pub grill badge.

I will be emailing all the off list interested parties with the essential
information.

It took two designers (also volunteer) and many, many runs of demos to get
it right.

Thank all of you for waiting...............you will get more more
information in the next few days - there is just one change in the crown
ball colours.

Would the fellow (anyone?) who offered to put the badge onto a web site
please come forward (save me from reading over the 120+ interested in the
BKP badge emails)

Merry Christmas,

Cheers
David
Full-time father of Alexander - 4 years old, this winter solstice
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home, an Ingrid 38, ketch rigged
wahooadv@earthlink.net

end of message

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From: Don <DandY@saltspring.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:28:48 -0800
Subject: Speedy Sleeves

>And what is this Speedy sleeve anyway?

>Help someone?

>Adrian Redmond queried, scratching his head...

A Speedy Sleeve is a thin, .008 or .010 inches thick, about 1.25 inches
wide and with an I.D. the same as the O.D. of your shaft, pulley or
wheel seal surface. They come in all "standard" sizes.
They are radiused and flanged on one edge. The other edge is beveled.
You install by cleaning up the worn seal surface, gently heat the sleeve
to expand it, start it on the shaft or whatever with the flange inward,
and with another "driver" ring (supplied) fitted over it so that it will
push on the flange, and tap, tap, tap gently 'til the sleeve bottoms.
remove the driver and you've got a nice, smooth seal surface. They're
thin enough that you just put standard seals in. Should be able to track
one down in most GOOD automotive or machinist supply stores. (At least
here in North America) Good, cheap and permanent repair.

-- 
Cheers,
Don Fee  

1968 series IIA 88"  (our DandY Landy)
1967 series IIA 109" s/w Safari 

'bot bait for the spambots...
[spamkill: @[^bt]*internet input: %s]	 nfic@internetMCI.com 

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:54:07
Subject: Re: Basil gets a roll bar... cheap.

	If mounted with sizable backing plates it would help tremendously in an
inadvertent exposure of the oily side.  A frame mounted one would, of
course, be best but wouldn't throw yours away just because its not perfect.
 Even though it may not be the ultimate in sturdy, it is infinitely
stronger than supporting the overturned vehicle with your head and neck.

Aloha Peter

At 09:50 AM 12/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>If you roll over with that thing it'll pull the mounting bolts right out 
>of their holes unless you figure a way to tie the whole mess to the 
>frame. What you have now is strictly for show.
>Bill Adams
>3D Artist/Animator
>'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
>'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
>"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 01:44:34 -0800
Subject: re:llA Bulkheads

From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:47:31 -0600
Subject: llA Bulkheads

>In answer to Peter Hope's question about a source for a llA bulkhead, I know
>that East Coast Rover advertise a rebuild program where you send yours to
>them and they send you a 'rebuilt' one for I believe a cool $1,000.

Geeze!  Might as well find a talented metalworker locally and ask em to
spruce up the one you got!
Is shipping to and fro to ECR included in this price?  Otherwise, could be
big $$$.

>Alternatively, Craddocks in England advertise one for about GBP500 (net of
>VAT).

I am pretty sure the Craddocks BHs are Series III only...I asked last summer.

>I would be interested to hear if anyone has any comments on either of these
>sources because I will also be looking for a new bulkhead before long.  My
>footwells are shot and one door pillar is beginning to rust through.  Given
>the high cost of having a competent body shop weld in the replacement bits
>it makes a bulkhead replacement look like a real alternative.

I am told that Dingocroft has a "stash" of very clean Series II bulkheads
somewhere on Continental Europe and they want ~400 pounds not including VAT
or shipping.  www.dingocroft.co.uk/
Dingocroft are good folks, they have a strong following with the N.
Californians.

Anybody want to do a group order?

Also, Wise Owl in Western Canada parts out rovers from time to time and has
bulkheads...I was going to haul a S2 BH back to "improve" my Series3 88 but
my rental car was too small. :(   http://www.bcoffroad.com/wiseowl/  The
ones Ray Wood had on hand were $300-350 usd.

John

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From: Mathias Babinsky <mmb@henhappl-babinsky.de>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:08:27 +0100
Subject: New list member

Hello all,

I just got my first Land Rover, an Ex-British-Army SIII 109. It's just
what I dreamt of since I was a kid, so I finally made it my own
Christmas present !

Anyone else from Germany on this list ?

Mathias Babinsky
Freiburg, Germany

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 05:30:02 EST
Subject: Re: llA Bulkheads

In a message dated 98-12-24 04:50:55 EST, you write:

<< I am told that Dingocroft has a "stash" of very clean Series II bulkheads
 somewhere on Continental Europe and they want ~400 pounds not including VAT
 or shipping.  www.dingocroft.co.uk/
 Dingocroft are good folks, they have a strong following with the N.
 Californians.
 >>

DAMN! That much? I recently sold a spare bulkhead back to the guy I got it
from, for a mere $150! (usd)

No biggie - I got it as part of a package deal, so it was pretty much given to
me anyway.

As for ordering a "rebuilt" bulkhead - I'd much rather buy my very own mig
welder, and teach myself how to weld!

Charles
(who will learn how to weld on my 109 chassis!)

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