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From: Kerry Scott <KERRYSCOTT@usa.net>
Date: 22 Dec 98 04:59:53 MST
Subject: Tires

Someone was asking about 9.5x33 tires.  I have four of the All Terrains in
this size on Gemsbok (1970 IIA 88" Petrol) and like them very much.  If I ever
get around to fixing the speedometer it will probably have to also be adjusted
to the tall skinny tires.  The only problem I encountered was that the taller
tires caused my oil soaked clutch plate to slip horribly.  It finally drove me
to pull the engine and change out the leaky rear main and the ruined clutch
plate.  Otherwise the tires are a nice fit with no rubbing and lots of ground
clearance.  I don't know what would be the situation if my springs we not also
new.

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:49:06 -0500
Subject: Re: plastic fuel lines, d90 vacuum booster/master cylinder in a

John - no opinion on either type of line. They both work.

Re: Dual master: This can easily be done with Series III parts. All you need to
worry about for clearance is the edges of the pedal hole (per TeriAnn), and the
inner wing either needs to be replaced with a Series III one or cut to fit.

There are other things, but if you check the archives you'll run up the data.

                    ajr

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From: "Andy Woodward" <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:51:41 -0000
Subject: Designs for improvement

>Why the folks who build the Range Rover's radiator elected not to
>put a drain plug in the bottom like on my Series III is beyond me. "Remove
>the lower radiator hose" are the shop manual instructions for draining the
>coolant from a Range Rover.   Dumb. 

I just stuck a tube down hte side of the radiator (thru the hole for teh little 
brass cap) to level with the bottom hose (it wont go any lower.......) and 
siphoned the stuff out. Worked OK.

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From: "Andy Woodward" <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:10:08 -0000
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

\	Before I removed the radiator, I'd throw in some "stop leak" additive.
\Found that the stuff will handle some pretty severe leaks for a long time.
\Definitely cheaper and easier than replacing the radiator.

If this stuff clogs up holes in the radiator, wont it tend to clog up holes in 
the 
engine (like cooolant passageways) too?

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:17:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Art's cooking with mayo

Art, your woes may well have been the result of a faulty rad cap. If it doesn't 
seal then you will have a coolant
loss that might go unnoticed so your coolant level would be  down allowing over 
heating then the steam. This
little item often goes unchecked. You can get a cap a UAP etc just be sure to 
get a 7lb one as most N A vehicles
use 13 + lbs.
John and Muddy

Art Bitterman wrote:

> Hey all!
> Some More on the steaming Aardvark. I only made it 'bout 3 miles out of town
> on the interstate, although did have to wait for 10 minutes idleing at the gas
> station (waiting for a twit in a J**p to get out of the way.)
> Never did have heat until I removed the thermostat, and I'm thinking the
> reason it over heated again , was that I Hadn't fully refilled the radiator
> cooling system (gallon of water I carry in the back was frozen!)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
> -just in case) but I'm thinking that the mayo was just a scare tactic that
> Aardvark was trying to pull to get me to spend more money on her!!

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:25:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

I have had this happen too. The cause was that I thought the offset pin in the
shaft had dogged into the slot in the drive gear but it was just sitting on the
edge but enough to turn the distributor.
Hint:   The timing mark doesn't know if number 1 or number 4 is on the 
compression
stroke.Pull number 1 plug and put your thumb over the plug hole to feel the
compression building as you you turn the crank to the timing mark.
John and Muddy

NADdMD@aol.com wrote:

> Hi all,
> I saw Chris Stevens at Sears tonight and we were lamenting our Rover problems.
> His with idling, mine with lack of power.  After tinkering with his rover, I
> went home.
> Since the engine rebuild and replacement, the Brick has run but is low on
> power and difficult to start when warm, almost like the engine was
> flooding...hesitation on acceleration and decreased power.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 27 lines)]
> Took it out for a test drive and it runs like a bat out of hell.  Acceleration
> like it never had.  I can accelerate up a steep hill in 3rd OD

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:45:38 -0400
Subject: Re: tire sizes

I have  35-12.50-15 tires on my 109 and lots of people say it looks silly with
those huge tires.............. just up to the point where they need me to pull
them out.: )
John and Muddy

Frank Elson wrote:

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:48:33 EST
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

In a message dated 12/22/98 8:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca writes:

> .Pull number 1 plug and put your thumb over the plug hole to feel the
>  compression building as you you turn the crank to the timing mark.

Exactly what I did 2 weeks ago to figure out I was 180 out.   Ran that way for
2 weeks then the events of last night and I felt the compression on 1 was out
180 again, but to the correct dizzy location.  I suspect the dog on the bottom
of the dizzy was not quite in the slot, 180 off.  Last night it happened to
slip on a revolution at idle and dropped into place.  BTW, I'd be interested
if others use Peter O's method.  I learned a similar method: rotate to highest
rpm then move back towards TDC until it just starts to want to decrease rpms.

Nate

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:16:17 EST
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

Playing catch up on previous postings.

To check for leaks, cut a bicycle intertube and place the open ends over the
inlet and outlet.  Put the cap in place on the radiator.  Pressurize the tube
and rad lightly with a tire pump or compressed air.  Use a dish soap and water
solution to check for leaks.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:16:50 EST
Subject: Re: Designs for improvement

Sandy,

The notched socket is the way to go.  Can either buy one from Eastwood's that
fits petcocks of different sizes for about $20.00 USD or take a hacksaw to one
of the cheapo Taiwanese sockets.  Can't remember exactly what size socket I
started with, but have been using it for years.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:47:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Weiredest things and 180 out

'twas written:

****
It is possible to get the impression that the distributor is 180 out if
the TDC mark is in the right place. According to the landy factory manual
you have to remove the tappet cover and check that the valves on piston
four is completely closed, tappets free.  I had a look at my distributor
and you can get the TDCmark lined up and the rotor will point 180 out, on
the next revolution to TDC the rotor points in the right direction. It has
caught me as well before. If you have a problem where the timing jumped
180 degress you have to check that the top section of the distributor has
seated with the bottom section.  Remember it has only one bolt which hold
the complete assembly together.  If the clamp around the top bit is not
flat with the distributor you can get a bit of mis alignment which can
throw the whole
thing out.
***

let's wake up a minute here, folks...the crank rotates twice for
every single rotation of the distributor...we're talkin' four
strokes here ladies and gents.  This means those marks on your
flywheel and/or pulley will appear twice for each rotation of 
your distributor...

And so you can time your rig to #1 or #4 with the same results.  Just
doesn't matter.

But some one out there seems to have a problem with the thing *keeping*
time, as he described an apparent "180 flip" (or 160 seemed more like
it).  So, either someone is fuggin' with him and switching his wires 
around or there's a problem of sorts.  May be that he's got a 
completely buggered timing chain (or tensioner), but I'd count this
as unlikely because it would typically jump one tooth at a time and
not half a chain's worth.  Nah, can't be.  Another possibility is 
that he (or a PO) didn't manage to seat the distributor properly
such that the ****OFFSET**** slotted drive dog isn't quite sitting
in it's female drive "gear".  Kinda hard to fathom that it'd work
at all if the drive gear wasn't mated properly, but I suppose it
could for a little while.  Note that a) the drive dog only goes
in one way, b) when properly seated, the lower end of the distributor
goes into the block ***all the way*** such that none of the 
lower end of the distributor (ie that portion turned to the same
diameter) is exposed.  One final possibility is that the pin holding
the drive dog onto the distributor has sheared.  Not likely, but
I suppose if it did happen you could experience this problem.

And one more time...if you're "180 out", as in the rotor on #1
TDC compression stroke points away from #1 cyl and not directly
at it, you've really nothing to worry about unless you're anal
retentive...in that case you can easily put yourself back on
track by rotating that offset drive dog on your distributor
180 degrees (tap/press out that little pin holding the dog to
the shaft), retiming and switching your wires around.

Happy Holidays,
rd/nige

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From: "Kevin and Crew" <willeys@cyberus.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:49:25 -0500
Subject: tis the season
	charset="iso-8859-1"

we would like to wish everyone a safe and happy holiday season
happy solstice,
merry x-mass,
happy new year
Kevin Willey
1996 disko (edith),
1973 lightweight,
1987 Merlin, 1998 True North soft tail(full boing)
Hummers hum but Land Rovers know the words !

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2D90.5BF3D6C0
	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 29 lines.]	

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 08:19:06 -0800
Subject: Re: plastic fuel lines, d90 vacuum booster/master cylinder in a

>On another topic, I notice that original fuel lines appear to be these hard
>plastic lines vs the rubber fuel hose one buys off the shelf.  Any opinions
;>on which is more durable?  I personally feel more comfortable with the
;>thicker wall rubber hose.

I can not remember ever seeing any original LR plastic fuel lines that 
have deteriorated.  Rubber hoses don't seem to last anywhere near as 
long.  But their diameter doesn't seem to fit U.S. fittings well and 
their rigidity doesn't allow them to compress for a proper seal with a 
hose clamp.  I personally would not swap out the original lines unless I 
was modifying the fuel system.

That said I swapped mine when I removed the Solex, added a Rochester & in 
line fuel filter and went to multiple fuel tanks.  When the oxidized fuel 
showed up at the pumps my fuel filter clogged up from bits of rubber 
hose.  I had to swap out to new & hopefully compounded to resist alcohol 
rubber lines.

;>Also, has anyone put a D90 vacuum booster/master cylinder into a series
;>rover to go to dual circuit braking?  I hear that hood/bonnet clearance
;>might be an issue.

Are you planning on putting D90 brakes all the way around???  Remember a 
master brake cylinder is sized to provide proper brake fluid volume to 
the wheel cylinders.  I assume you are referring to a series rig.  I 
would use the master brake cylinder that the factory used to match the 
brakes that you are using.  That said, you may be better off considering 
a series power brake dual master conversion on a series rig instead of a 
D90 power brake dual master conversion.

Not being a hydraulic fluid engineer I went with a set up preengineered 
and proven on thousands of cars.  My web side has an article describing 
how I made the conversion on my 109.  I just recently helped Nick do the 
same conversion on his '62 Dormobile.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:23:11 EST
Subject: Re: Weiredest things and 180 out

In a message dated 12/22/98 10:49:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu writes:

> And one more time...if you're "180 out", as in the rotor on #1
>  TDC compression stroke points away from #1 cyl and not directly
>  at it, you've really nothing to worry about unless you're anal
>  retentive...in that case you can easily put yourself back on
>  track by rotating that offset drive dog on your distributor
>  180 degrees (tap/press out that little pin holding the dog to
>  the shaft), retiming and switching your wires around.

I will restate:  2 weeks ago, I could not get the LR running.  I pulled out
plug 1, turned til I felt compression, looked at the rotor and determined that
I was 180 out.  I switched the wires to compensate and the truck roared to
life--poor acceleration and hesitation under throttle. Chris Stevens rode in
the truck set up this way.  I cruised the freeway at 65 mph this way.

Unhappy with the hesitation, I had the bonnet up and was just looking at the
engine, I had done nothing up til then.  The truck backfired through the carb
(forcing oil out of the oilbath) and died. It would not restart.

Pulling plug 1 again, I found the compression stroke and found the rotor
pointing to cyl 1.--180 from where it had been previously.  I moved the wires
and it fired up with more power than it has ever had.  runs great.  I don't
know what happened in there but I suspect the dizzy slipped and reseated 180
and is now in proper placement.

Nate

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:35:49 -0500
Subject: Brake light switch

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

>The hydraulic brake line switch on early II and IIas is the same one used
>by the VW Beetle - cheap and easy to source.

Ahhh, but this is the simpler and *cheaper* switch for the dual master
system - a simple plunger - rather than the hydraulic switch of II's and
IIa's.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:07:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Brake light switch

Sandy reminds me that this is the easier and cheaper (newer) switch, not the
hard-to-get jobbie.....

So i'm supposed to read your mind? 8*) No, thanks - i've got enough problems
with SWMBO expecting that.....

Well, the one on the brake pedal on the wife's Austin-Healey looks similar, but
not having tried it I make no guarantees...

                         ajr

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From: Keith Goffin <keith.goffin@camp.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:14:23 -0500
Subject: Must sell my 1970 88" friend

1970 88" SIIa last of the metal grilles, first of the headlighted wings.
Take my  friend that needs a new frame and make her happy for the new year.
I must sell ASAP, $1400 obo.  Call or email Keith at 216-221-8886 or
cadud@hotmail.com - she lives in Columbus, OH

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:12:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Brake light switch

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

>The hydraulic brake line switch on early II and IIas is the same one 
used
>by the VW Beetle - cheap and easy to source.

Bullsh*t. Doesn't fit without jamming and ripping new threads and will 
fail within a hundred miles...they're all made of the cheapest crap and 
aren't up to the pressures involved in a 109. I pushed the contacts right 
out of one. Not too safe. Use original parts here and don't try to save a 
buck.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:47:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Weiredest things and 180 out

Russell you are the one asleep here. His distributor when replaced at rebuild
seemed 180 out with the wire pointing at the wrong plugs so he moved them so
they lined up and the truck started. some time later the truck wouldn't run
and again the wires pointed at the wrong plug.So again he moved the wires now
all is OK. I am willing to bet dollars to Donuts that when fitted at the
rebuild the offset drive pin was not set into the slot but was 180 out. This
can and does happen * believe it*.
Later the shaft rotated and allowed the pin to drop into the slot right were
it should have been. Again I repeat this is a fairly common thing to happen
not rocket science and no need to delve into the mysteries of the universe.
You seem a little confused about how the 4 stroke works. Both the valve train
and the distributor operate at 1/2 engine speed. This means that each piston
comes to the top of its stoke twice for each cycle the first is the
compression and the second is the exhaust stroke. Now this has the effect that
the timing marks appear also twice for each cycle but only one is useful. This
the one where the rotor is pointing at the plug wire of the piston that is on
the compression stroke, in addition we need the points to open at this time.
When the system is 180 out so called then the spark is delivered when the
valve train is on the exhaust stroke.
I believe that you confusion lies in the fact that it is possible to
satisfactorily set the ignition timing using Number 4 cylinder as long as you
are aware that this is what you are doing.
Merry Christmas
  John and Muddy

"Russell G. Dushin" wrote:

> 'twas written:
> ****
> It is possible to get the impression that the distributor is 180 out if
> the TDC mark is in the right place. According to the landy factory manual
> you have to remove the tappet cover and check that the valves on piston
> four is completely closed, tappets free.  I had a look at my distributor
> and you can get the TDCmark lined up and the rotor will point 180 out, on
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 40 lines)]
> at all if the drive gear wasn't mated properly, but I suppose it
> could for a little while.  Note that a) the drive dog only goes

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From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:48:52 -0700
Subject: Re: groovy seals

From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>

>>Marin Faure wrote:
>>If, when you pull the pulley, there isn't a groove, then replacing the seal
should do the trick.  By the way, the same thing can happen to the parking
brake drum: the rear oil seal in the transfer case can "score" the shaft
over the years.  Again, the only real cure is to replace the drum along
with the seal.

     >I wonder if getting a speedi sleeve would be an option in these cases?

Yes, that should work just fine.  Years ago, when I first discovered I had
a grooved front pulley, the parts supplier I was using in northern
California, the original Atlantic British, recommended using a Speedy
Sleeve.  They had done this in several cases with apparent success.  I just
never got around to it as the leak isn't that bad and I didn't know where
to find the sleeves nor was I worried enough to find out.  Eventually, I
ordered a new pulley altogether which maybe someday I'll get around to
installing.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:55:54 EST
Subject: Re: Weiredest things and 180 out

In a message dated 12/22/98 12:52:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca writes:

> I am willing to bet dollars to Donuts that when fitted at the
>  rebuild the offset drive pin was not set into the slot but was 180 out.

I agree with you totally.  I'm just glad I was standing there watching it idle
when it did and not on the highway at 60 mph (ow! hit my head on the steering
wheel!)

Nate

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:24:45 EST
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

In a message dated 12/22/98 5:12:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, azw@aber.ac.uk
writes:

<< f this stuff clogs up holes in the radiator, wont it tend to clog up holes
in the 
 engine (like cooolant passageways) too? >>
As usual, I don't worry about some of things other people worry about, just
part of being an eccentric Land ROver Owner I guess.  When confronted with
mystery leaks and lack of time to fix them along with a need to run a
particular vehicle I use stop leak products.  My favorite is to use good old
Silica gel.  You can find this as water glass some places.  It goes into
solution but will "clot" if exposed to air. Works fine for the small leaks
like Adrian had.  I just used about half a pint and my leaks stopped.  I
recollect i paid about three dollars for the pint.  No warranty on heat
transfer effeciency etc. 

Zack Arbios

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:33:02 EST
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

In a message dated 12/22/98 5:49:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, NADdMD@aol.com
writes:

<< I learned a similar method: rotate to highest
 rpm then move back towards TDC until it just starts to want to decrease rpms.
<< I learned a similar method: rotate to highest
The method of adjusting timing at idle leaves something to be desired in the
way of acceptable accuracy.  A MUCH better method is to adjust the collar so
that jusicious tapping can rotate the dizzy. Then while driving listen for
Pinking and advance the dizzy until pinking is heard under maximum load and
then retard slightly until it goes away.  This method will allow for maximum
advance while allowing for the state of tune, the state of maintenance,of the
engine and the state of the gasoline you are using.  besides it works in the
field while you aren't in posession of timing lites etc.  Leaving the bonnet
at home for the test drives works best as you can jump out and adjust while
you are test driving.

Zack Arbios

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From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@drexel.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:34:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

According to Zaxcoinc@aol.com:
...Leaving the bonnet at home for the test drives works best as you can 
jump out and adjust while you are test driving.
 
Zack Arbios

--------

Let me guess, bring a friend to drive while you are on the wing adjusting 
the dizzy? ;-)

Casey McMullen

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:52:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Weirdest thing and 180 out

John 'n Muddy wrote:

***
Russell you are the one asleep here. His distributor when replaced at
***

my line re: WAKE UP referred to certain persons saying the marks
on the flywheel appeared when the rotor pointed at #4 post.  No shit.
The crank turns twice for every revolution of the distributor...
you can time to #1 or #4 with absolutely the same result.  BOTH times
it appears are useful.  If you don't agree think it through.

***
rebuild seemed 180 out with the wire pointing at the wrong plugs so he
moved them so they lined up and the truck started. some time later the
truck wouldn't run and again the wires pointed at the wrong plug.So again
he moved the wires now all is OK. I am willing to bet dollars to Donuts
that when fitted at the rebuild the offset drive pin was not set into the
slot but was 180 out. This can and does happen * believe it*. Later the
shaft rotated and allowed the pin to drop into the slot right were it
should have been. Again I repeat this is a fairly common thing to happen
not rocket science and no need to delve into the mysteries of the
universe.
***

I do believe this CAN happen...that the drive can be driven without
being engaged...but since the slot in the drive dog is offset, it
should only go in one way.  I don't believe that the slot can be
engaged when assembled incorrectly (just isn't enough play between
the distributor housing and the case to allow it to enter "cockeyed").
NOR do I believe that the shaft can rotate "and allow the pin to drop
into the slot" unless the distributor is totally loose.

NATE: I suggest you pull out your distributor, inspect the drive dog,
and reinstall it correctly, making certain that the distributor is
fully seated in it's correct position.  If you don't want to pull
it out just loosen the clamp and make damned sure it's seated.
Retime to the 6 degreee BTDC mark (or slightly more advanced if
you like).  Allowing the current situation to persist could very well give
you trouble down the line (when the drive dog slips out of its slot
again).

***
You seem a little confused about how the 4 stroke works. Both
the valve train and the distributor operate at 1/2 engine speed.
***

No shit, John.  Been around and inside engines for almost 30 years.
No need to resort to insults.  It's christmas time, remember?

***
the first is the compression and the second is the exhaust stroke. Now
this has the effect that the timing marks appear also twice for each cycle
but only one is useful. 
***

Not so.  Time to #1 or #4.  If you're using an ohm meter or a
test lamp (on the low tension wire running from the points to the
coil) you won't notice a difference (provided you rotate the
distributor in the proper direction...against the arrow).  If
you're using a strobe lamp on a running motor you can do it
on #4 or #1.

***
This the one where the rotor is pointing at the
plug wire of the piston that is on the compression stroke, in addition we
need the points to open at this time. When the system is 180 out so called
then the spark is delivered when the valve train is on the exhaust stroke.
***

ah, IF you're "180 in" in the first place.  LOTS Of us out here have
or (in my case) have had rovers that were set up "180 out"....ie when #1
cyl was on TDC compression stroke the rotor pointed away from #1
cylinder.  IF you followed the thread last week, there's a few ways
you can reverse this...the easiest way IMNSHO is to rotate the drive
dog on the bottom of the distributor 180 degrees.  

I'd hazard a guess that at least 10-15% of us have distributors set
180 out.  No biggie and no matter, unless you don't want your plug
wires crossing....can only be done when "180 in".

rd/nige

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:56:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Brake light switch

>The hydraulic brake line switch on early II and IIas is the same one
used
>by the VW Beetle - cheap and easy to source.

Bill adds (with as little grace as possible):

>Bullsh*t. Doesn't fit without jamming and ripping new threads and will
>fail within a hundred miles...they're all made of the cheapest crap and
>aren't up to the pressures involved in a 109. I pushed the contacts right
>out of one. Not too safe. Use original parts here and don't try to save a
>buck.

Bill,

I beg to differ - Mr. C has had one on board for years (and at least 40K miles)
with no problem. I also know of at least a half-dozen other Rovers (not to
mention a Jag or two) that are running with the same part with no difficulty.

The working pressures are not significantly different from a Rover to a Bug -
fluid volume, maybe, but pressures - not so any well-made component is going to
notice.

You buy crap, you get crap. His is a Bosch switch - fit and finish is better
than the Indian-made, crimped-together garbage Rover sells - and don't even get
me started on the aftermarket tripe.

Threads are the same (yes, I thread-gauged them), fit is the same. Epoxy-potted
switch rear is going nowhere.

Might I ask - what brand or manufacturer was the one you sourced?

Mine came from a foreign-parts chain here in the northeast called Foreign
Autopart. Right around $10 - and off the shelf to boot. Contrast that with $28
for the made-in-India POS that showed up on my doostep in a Rover bag - and that
I refused to fit and sent back.

"Genuine" parts does NOT mean quality - which is why I look very carefully at
any genuine item I buy for a statement of source.

          ajr

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:58:30 -0800
Subject: RE: Brake light switch

A buddy's '69 IIA 'plunger' type brake light switch failed many years ago.
We replaced it with a switch out of a Datsun 510.  No mod's needed.  Still
working today...

Paul in Victoria.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:09:20
Subject: Re: Tires

	How is it for driving on the road.  Do you find yourself in 3rd a lot or
will the 2.25 pull the tall tires on the highway???

Aloha Peter

At 04:59 AM 12/22/98 MST, you wrote:
>Someone was asking about 9.5x33 tires.  I have four of the All Terrains in
>this size on Gemsbok (1970 IIA 88" Petrol) and like them very much.  If I

ever
>get around to fixing the speedometer it will probably have to also be
adjusted
>to the tall skinny tires.  The only problem I encountered was that the taller
>tires caused my oil soaked clutch plate to slip horribly.  It finally
drove me
>to pull the engine and change out the leaky rear main and the ruined clutch
>plate.  Otherwise the tires are a nice fit with no rubbing and lots of ground
>clearance.  I don't know what would be the situation if my springs we not
also
>new.

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:11:32
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

NO

At 01:10 PM 12/22/98 -0000, you wrote:
>\	Before I removed the radiator, I'd throw in some "stop leak" additive.
>\Found that the stuff will handle some pretty severe leaks for a long time.
>\Definitely cheaper and easier than replacing the radiator.
>If this stuff clogs up holes in the radiator, wont it tend to clog up

holes in the 
>engine (like cooolant passageways) too?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:21:04
Subject: Re: another use for bicycle tubes.

	Been riding bikes for nearly as long as I've been driving rovers.  Nice 
to
see the most perfect form of transportation has many other spin offs.
Previously suggested bike tubes for bleeding brakes, now for pressurizing
cooling system.

	I recently soldered a leak in my radiator.  Took it down to a shop to 
have
it pressure checked to be sure I'd gotten the bugger.  Pressurized to 6 lbs
and had the top part of the radiator begin to bulge out and didn't return
to original shape afterwards.  Doesn't leak but looks like it is bloated.
Don't tell me its getting old, its original off a '65.

Aloha Peter

At 10:16 AM 12/22/98 EST, you wrote:
>Playing catch up on previous postings.
>To check for leaks, cut a bicycle intertube and place the open ends over the
>inlet and outlet.  Put the cap in place on the radiator.  Pressurize the tube
>and rad lightly with a tire pump or compressed air.  Use a dish soap and

water
>solution to check for leaks.
>Larry Smith
>inlet and outlet.  Put the cap in place on the radiator.  Pressurize the tube

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:23:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Brake light switch

On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

:Mine came from a foreign-parts chain here in the northeast called
Foreign
:Autopart. Right around $10 - and off the shelf to boot. Contrast that with $28
:for the made-in-India POS that showed up on my doostep in a Rover bag - and 
that
:I refused to fit and sent back.

I just last month fitted a new genuwhine hydraulic brake light on Mr.
Sinclair.  It was $16.50 from you know who, and was made in the UK.  It
seemed to be of reasonable high quality, with the contacts mounted in
epoxy.  

David  

:
:"Genuine" parts does NOT mean quality - which is why I look very carefully at
:any genuine item I buy for a statement of source.
:

Indeed.  I have seen some really shity genuine parts, like ball joints --
they don't come with a grease nipple.  There are some that are definitely
nicer than the alternatives.

David

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:30:15
Subject: Re: sometimes 180 out is backwards!

	Just got new oem plug wires for my 88.  The distributor is 180 out and 
the
plug wires are too short.  Will either have to send them back or figure out
a way to get the distributor reversed.  Did anyone verify that you can
remove the roll pin on the drive flange and rotate it 180 degrees to get
the distributor lined up in the manner that God and Rover intended.
	Funny thing is I got my 3 main 2.25 timing 180 out when I rebuilt it.  
The
professionally rebuilt 5 main 2.25 that went in is also 180 out.  Leads me
to think its the distributor fitting that is out not the drive off the cam.

Aloha Peter

>And one more time...if you're "180 out", as in the rotor on #1
>TDC compression stroke points away from #1 cyl and not directly
>at it, you've really nothing to worry about unless you're anal
>retentive...in that case you can easily put yourself back on
>track by rotating that offset drive dog on your distributor
>180 degrees (tap/press out that little pin holding the dog to
>the shaft), retiming and switching your wires around.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Happy Holidays,
>rd/nige

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:39:11 -1000
Subject: Re: CT Vehicles

>Think that this is why Rover is rethinking the Camel Trophy event and why
>there will be no 1999 Camel Trophy?  The Flatliners just don't hack it as
>the heart beat of Rover??

Really?  I had not read anything yet about no 99 CT

Or do you mean that Rover will not provide the vehicles?
Prior to 1991 the LR Company provided the vehicles for the CT but they were
not a sponsor of the event.  91 was the first year that they actaully
sponsered the event, but the event still is not the "Land Rover Camel
Trophy".  People seem to think that the CT is a Land Rover event.  It
wasn't, it was an American Ciggerette Company event.  To this day, go out
and buy all that neet Camel Trophy gear and guess where your money will end
up?  Yeap, in the heart of the American tobacco industry.
Sorry for the rant.
Pete

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:54:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: clarification on 180 out

hey guys, when I say "180 out" what I mean is that the 
distributor is set such that when #1 cylinder is on TDC
compression stroke, the rotor is pointing away from 
the #1 cylinder.  I do NOT mean to suggest this thing
would run at all if it were truely 180 out...it wouldn't
and you'd get the result Nate had (backfiring through
the carb - which can start fires), of friggin' course.

In case you haven't picked up on past threads, many
rovers seem to be set up this way.  Nige was when I got
him.  Nige does, however, have the distributor drive
gear set correctly ("narrow" side points right with the
slot pointing towards #1 cylinder on #1 TDC compression
stroke as per the manuals) so *either* a PO reversed the
drive dog on the bottom of the distributor *or* he was
that way from birth.  I reversed it, so now he's "180 in".

I know of at least 2 other rovers in our midst set "180 out".
Since timing instructions in the manuals (genuine and haynes)
do NOT specify ANYTHING at all with regard to the position of
the rotor, nor which post on the cap is #1 or #4, and furthermore,
since a rig can be timed to #1 or #4 with no difference at all
and using the exact same intructions, I suspect that there's a distinct
possibility that they came from the factory both ways.  (Blame
Ian.)

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.  Sorry, but I
took it for granted that you'd picked up on this terminology
and not taken it in literal terms.

rd/nige

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:54:32 EST
Subject: Re: Weirdest thing and 180 out

In a message dated 12/22/98 2:01:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu writes:

> NATE: I suggest you pull out your distributor, inspect the drive dog,
>  and reinstall it correctly, making certain that the distributor is
>  fully seated in it's correct position.  If you don't want to pull
>  it out just loosen the clamp and make damned sure it's seated.
>  Retime to the 6 degreee BTDC mark (or slightly more advanced if
>  you like).  Allowing the current situation to persist could very well give
>  you trouble down the line (when the drive dog slips out of its slot
>  again).

This dizzy is a late style lucas (no adjust on the vaccuum advance).  It ran
very well on the old engine (12K in 2 years with not even a hint of problems).
Therefore I must conclude the dizzy is an inocent bystander of a poor
installation.  I did remove the pinch bolt and twisted the thing around to see
if it was engaged and it seems to be.  The timing light shows a very regular
position to the mark and so I conclude the shaft isn't worbling about.  I
might also state here that I had thought I had put the distrib drive gear in
correctly when I first set it up and then confirmed its position with a
knowledgable list member so I was surprised when it seemed to be 180 out 2
weeks ago during setup.

Nate

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:58:31 +0100
Subject: SALISBURY - THE EASY WAY!

Well there goes another Christmas!

After all my whinging and talk about giving up after the 88" rebuild, I
took the plunge today and bought the spares for rebuilding the 109" -
this job isn't as bad as the 88", as the car hasn't been parked on its
side recently, so the firewall is OK - but here's the agenda -

Rebuild complete brake system, including pedal mechanicals
Rebuild clutch hydraulics, including pedal mechanicals
New rear axle
Rebuild entire front axle, bearings, seals, swivels, brakes, drums, hubs
Fit new steering tie rod ends throughout
New shock absorbers
Paint firewall
Fit new indicators and sidelights
Fit new exhaust
Install master battery switch
Rebuild fuel system and fit new filters

In awe at the scale of the job (again) I did a bit of budgetting and
discovered that i could SAVE a few hundred kroner by not rebuilding the
Salisbury, but by buying a complete ditto, still in original packing
case c/o Norwegian Army anno 1974 - it weighs 200 kg packed, and I have
just unloaded it from the 109" on my own - now it's balanced on two
trestles in the middle of my workshop, so I can't get the 109 in or the
88's or the VWLT out - that must be a problem for tomorrow.

It came in a nice packing case - just the right size for my old
salisbury when I demount it - then, some sunny day in the summer, I can
rebuild that, and have it standing by for a rainy day.

I can't understand it. My diesel 109 is running so well, easily runs at
110kph - 70 mph, good acceleration and overtaking power, noisy but no
smoke. Temp guage reads almost high almost all the time - been like that
for a year now - but no loss of oil or water.

I'm going to take it a bit slower this time, no 24 hr a day rebuilds for
me anymore, the last one was a b*tch.

Have fun, and if you can't have fun, then get in and drive it instead.

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
"Native Experience" - production unit in Alaska USA
telephone			     (907) 230 0359
e-mail				channel6@alaska.net
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:26:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Weirdest thing and 180 out

Nate offers:

***
This dizzy is a late style lucas (no adjust on the vaccuum advance).  It
ran very well on the old engine (12K in 2 years with not even a hint of
problems). Therefore I must conclude the dizzy is an inocent bystander of
a poor installation.  I did remove the pinch bolt and twisted the thing
***

Reason I suggested taking it out was to inspect that drive dog to 
be certain it didn't get buggerd up to hell when it was apparently
incorrectly assembled.  But if you loosened the pinch bolt, twisted
the distributor around and made sure it was seated (and rotated
the rotor into proper position, too) correctly, you're probably OK.

Also, as I said in an earlier message, there is a possibility, albeit
a long shot, that the pin that holds the drive dog to the bottom of
the distributor has sheared, allowing movement of the gear on the 
shaft.  Doubtful, though, and as we all agree it seems the most likely
explanation is that the distributor wasn't installed correctly.

rd/nige

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 09:43:36 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: groovy seals 

>Have never used a speedi sleeve, does it take a machine shop to >install.

speedi sleeves are easy to install. They come with directions. They cost about 
20 bucks.

later
dave

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 09:54:01 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick/timing 

>Could someone post the proper method to set the timing by ear.  Thought 
>it was to rotate the distributor until max rpm at idle then retard 
>slightly. Is that right???

that's how I always did it. Lug it up some hills when you're done to see if you 
can get it to knock. If it does, than retard it a notch until it stops.

later
dave

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 09:58:13 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Interior trim 

>The trim has gome to a new home where it will be fell fed and cared for. 
>Thanks for the response - too bad I don't have more sets of the stuff.

I have two brand new black lower door trims that I would sell. I'm asking $25 a 
piece plus shipping.

later
dave

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 12:56:13 -0800
Subject: Re: CT Vehicles

>>Think that this is why Rover is rethinking the Camel Trophy event and why
>>there will be no 1999 Camel Trophy?  The Flatliners just don't hack it as
.>>the heart beat of Rover??
.>Really?  I had not read anything yet about no 99 CT

It is my understanding that Rover is currently not planning to 
participate in a 1999 Camel Trophy event.  Internation interest has 
decreased for a couple of reasons.  One is that other groups are putting 
on similar events so it is no longer the only one or necessarly the 
hardest one.  Another is that the event has become less of an off road 
event and more of an athletic event and people no longer see it as a 
special test of 4X4s.  Maybe because the New cars they are using are not 
as gonzo off road capable, maybe because the SUV market doesn't really 
care.

My current understanding is that they decided not to spend the $$ in '99 
and are rethinking what they want to do instead of the Camel Trophy event 
that they have been running.  I understand that they want to do one or 
several big splashy thing(s) in 2000.

Ever get the feeling that 2000 will be a solid year of parties, special 
events each trying to top all the others and excess?  Party on & get your 
LR prepped to participate in the events 8^)

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:58:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: sometiems 180 out is backwards

Aloha Pete sez:

***
        Just got new oem plug wires for my 88.  The distributor is 180 out
and the plug wires are too short.  Will either have to send them back or
figure out a way to get the distributor reversed.  Did anyone verify that
you can remove the roll pin on the drive flange and rotate it 180 degrees
to get the distributor lined up in the manner that God and Rover intended.
        Funny thing is I got my 3 main 2.25 timing 180 out when I rebuilt
it. The professionally rebuilt 5 main 2.25 that went in is also 180 out.  
Leads me
to think its the distributor fitting that is out not the drive off the
cam.
***

Let's see if I can be any more clear on this...

#1 YES, you CAN and I HAVE remove(d) the roll pin that holds the drive
dog to the distributor, rotate that drive dog 180 degrees while holding
the shaft stationary, and reinstall the pin.  The pin is NOT tapered, at 
least on older style Lucas distributors (the nice ones with the fine
adjustment knob on the vacuum advance).  It may be in there tres tight,
and you may be better off pressing it out than banging the shit out
of it.

#2 "Cam-side" drive dog...imagine a circle with a hole in the middle.
Running through this circle and just up to one edge of this hole is
a slot.  It's offset and does not split the circle into two equal
halfs...one side is more than a half circle ("wide side") while the
other is less ("narrow side").  The manual states that with #1 cylinder
on TDC compression stroke, the slot should point to #1 cylinder and the
"narrow" side points toward the right side of the vehicle (right
when viewed from within facing forward).

#3 You're probably right about your distributor being the culprit.

Can we do a survey?  Anyone with the plug wire for #1 cylinder (the
front one) attached to the distributor at the terminal *farthest*
from #1 send email to rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu.

rd/nige

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From: "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti" <passaretti@sol.med.ge.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:16:56 -0600
Subject: Designs for improvement

>>>>> "A" == A P \"Sandy\" Grice <A.> writes:

    >> Why the folks who build the Range Rover's radiator
    >> elected not to put a drain plug in the bottom like on
    >> my Series III is beyond me. "Remove the lower radiator
    >> hose" are the shop manual instructions for draining the
    >> coolant from a Range Rover.  Dumb.

    A> Same with the Disco.  Gotta remove the bottom rad
    A> hose....

I don't know 'bout round there, but I had a rad like this in
my car and I (PM guy that I am) spent $22 at the local
radiator place to have them braze/solder in a fitting for me.
I did this mostly because the dealer claimed that the reason
that my first rad rotted away from the inside was that I
didn't flush it often enough (twice in 4 years, which was the
scheduled interval for the car) Interesting note, though, the
removal of the radiator took about 5 minutes.  They'd
obviously optimized it to be replaced as a unit (and seeing
that it's my second I don't blame them).
							-MM

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 17:40:08 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem 

In a message dated 12/22/98 5:12:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, azw@aber.ac.uk 
writes:

><< f this stuff clogs up holes in the radiator, wont it tend to clog up holes 
>in the 
 >engine (like cooolant passageways) too? >>

the stuff that looks like powdered metal WILL clog heater cores if you use it 
repeatedly. Bars Leaks brand will not. Heard this from a trustworthy source.
later
daveb

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:01:13 -0500
Subject: Tyres

David writes :- On of our SII 88s currently has 7.50x16 tires. The only
problem is the
steering stops on the front axle need to be adjusted so that the tires
don't rub on the springs at full lock steering. This increases turning
circle slightly. Also, the standard 88 rims should be replaced with
wider 109 rims. BTW, isn't the bulkhead on a 109 further back than on a
88?

 The bulkhead ( firewall )  on a 109 is in the same relative position as an
88, the same wings ( fenders ) are used.
 The seat bulkhead on a 109 is further back than an 88.
Land Rover recommended 7.00 x 16 as the largest tyre fitment for the 88, the
clearance between the tyre and the rear wheelwell is smaller in an 88 than
in a 109 so that under loaded conditions in an 88 a 7.50  tyre rubs on the
underside of  the wheelwell.
 I am a believer in throwing away the steering stops on a Land Rover so that
maximum lock can be obtained, OK under max lock the tyre can rub on the
spring, so what, under these conditions it is only likely to occur at low
speed under tight manouvering when you need the lock.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:49:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Lateral thinking needed on cooling problem

You are quite correct Mr. B. somewhere in what is laughingly referred to as my
filing system I have Land Rover confidential service bulletins, one of which
covers the use of Bars Leak. ....Approved !

> the stuff that looks like powdered metal WILL clog heater cores if you use it
> repeatedly. Bars Leaks brand will not. Heard this from a trustworthy source.
> later

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> later
> daveb

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:42:26 -0500
Subject: Re: tire sizes

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

> Apparently
> Rover felt the 2.25 needed the appearance of greater acceleration that
> the
> smaller diameter tires would give.  Unfortunately they gave up ground
> clearance and freeway cruising for the small increase in acceleration.

I suspect LR went to the 15" wheels and tires for NA because the narrow
16" tires were considered obsolete by the late '60s. Jeep CJs made the
switch in the '50s or early '60s. The trend in the '60s was to smaller
diameter wheels, not the current trend to larger wheels and lower aspect
ratio tires. Remember when most passenger cars were 13" or 14", and only
the largest cars had 15"? So the change by LR to a more "modern" tire
size was an easy update.

> As far as the bulkhead, there is no difference in location between the
> 109
> and 88.

I should have been more precise. The bulkhead I was refering to was the
one behind the front seats. It's further aft on a 109 by a couple of
inches or so. The motor compartment, "bulkhead", dash, etc. are
identical.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:14:09 EST
Subject: Basil gets a rollbar... cheap.

So, I had just picked up some 20 gauge steel at Davis Salvage in PHX and was
on the way home when I passed a 4WD drive place and noticed a bunch of
rollbars in front.  Hhmmm..... wonder if one of them would fit a SIII?

Since asking is still free, I did a quick u-turn and pulled in.  Walked inside
and the two counter guys for some assistance.  One of them grabbed a tape
measure and we walked outside.  Took a quick measurement and then walked over
to the rollbars.

Most of them were too wide and/or too tall.  Basil's a softtop with the tire
mounted inside.  I noticed a used rollbar that wasn't in too bad shape and
inquired about it.  Measured it and it seemed like a good fit.  It was
designed for a Scout.  

I wanted a price before we tried to fit it so we went back inside and got the
manager.  He first wanted $125 for it.  "What's the cost of a new one?"
"$150"  

So, since there was a little rust and it was used, I offered 'em $75 and they
agreed if it would fit.  Walked back inside and using a couple of lifting and
twisting motions, we got it inside.  (Ah... the advantages of a softtop in AZ
during December.)

It's a nice fit.  The top is pretty much level with the top of the windshield
and it fits forward up against the fuel hose metal cover.  It will mount on
top of the wheel wells.

I didn't want to mount one of the floor.  I have a small tool box that fits in
between the wheel wells.  

I stopped at HomeDe'po on the way home and picked up some bolts, nuts, paint,
etc.  Since it is steel, I also got some thin plastic wall strips that is used
where commercial flooring meets the wall.  I'll trim them down and mount them
on the wheel well between the aluminum and steel.  I also picked up some steel
brackets to mount under the wheel wells as backing and will use this thin
plastic stuff under there too.  

Spent the afternoon sanding and grinding.  Tomorrow:  paint.

Hope this works out OK.

Happy Holidays....
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: Josh Patterson <jmp@indy.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:15:09 -0500
Subject: Brakes are workig

The problem with my brakes turned out to be that on a 109 IIA the
leading rear shoes adjuster pin is slightly lower on the shoe than the
trailing shoes.  I seemed to have the two high shoes on the left and the
two low on the right therfor not noticing any difference.  Now the
brakes work great, anyone need any extra slighly used drums, shoes, or
other crap.  Well i guess it doesn't hurt to have spares, but i've got a
spare for each part.  Live and Let learn.   Thank to RN for the tip, and
everyone else for their suggestions the power sprayer bleeder works
great.

JMP
Indpls, IN
Cave JWI

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:29:28 EST
Subject: toe-in tips?

Howdy fellow sufferers,
Just did my toe-in--seems just as squirrely on the road as ever.

The shop I had do it once used a little spring-loaded scribe to scribe a line
on the spinning tires, and then used that line to measure the toe-in.

Well, not owning any spring-loaded scribe thinggys, I just measured using the
raised molding ridge at the center of the tire.

Can this give you anything resembling an accurate measurement?  If not, what's
a good way to go?

Bill "darn, my pipe (Stillson?--the one w/ teeth) wrench is in Georgia" Rice
Hackettstown, NJ for the Holiday season

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:15:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Happy Holidays! - Off to MA

Hi Everybody -
	I'm loging off the lists for a few weeks, going to visit family /
friends in MA.
I'll be staying in Worcester from Dec 23 to Jan 4th or 5th - and visiting
friends around the Boston area.  If any of you want to get together - I'll
be up for some rovering or beer.
Send me e-mail to pkaskan@clarku.edu AND pmk11@cornell.edu.  I'll be
replacing my clutch slave cylinder, and if I'm real motivated, I'll be
blasting corrosion out of my bed, and patching up the holes.

Happy Holidays - Cheers! - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:00:24 EST
Subject: Re: toe-in tips?

In a message dated 12/22/98 4:41:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, Jarvis64@aol.com
writes:

 Can this give you anything resembling an accurate measurement?  If not,
what's
 a good way to go? >>
Possibly it can, but the way to check is to spin the tire while holding the
pointy end of a nail againts the tire slowly, kinda like using a lathe tool.
When it makes a mark that mark will be in the plane of rotation,  the mold
mark might not be.  I've had good luck using a ball point pen and chalk as
well.  For Toe in, the location of the mark isn't critical as to center of
tread or so on.  it's the difference between front tangent point and back
tangent points which matters.  Have a good time.

Zack Arbios

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:09:14 EST
Subject: Simplistic Model of Timing

Hi all,

I finally called a local speed shop to ask about timing...sort of the zen of
timing.  He likened it to a merry-go-round.  The crankshaft is the merry-go-
round, and the person standing at the side pulling the merry-go-round is the
fuel and spark (power stroke).

At a given speed, the guy by the merry-go-round pulls the handles at the same
angle each time he reaches out.   
If he wants the merry-go-round to go faster and maintain the faster speed, he
has to reach farther back (advance the timing) in order to deliver the energy
to keep it at the greater rate of speed.  (Hence the vaccuum advance).

To get the maximum benefit from his energy output at a given speed, there is a
angle he has to reach back to deliver the energy.  If he reaches too far back,
he'll work against the momentum of the merry-go-round (pinging).  If he
doesn't reach far enough he'll waste his effort (too much retard).

Therefore:  One wants to set the timing as advanced as possible without
pinging to get the maximum efficiency of the energy released in the burn.

Hopes this helps some and makes sense to those who actually already know this
stuff.   At least it helped me.

Nate

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From: "Stude, Herman L." <HermanS@krts.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:42:05 -0600
Subject: snow chains

Dear List;

I'm headed from Texas to Colorado next week, and am considering chains
for my rig.  Anyone know of good brands and/or retailers along the way. 
Of course websites would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays and thanks in advance.

Herman

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From: "Stude, Herman L." <HermanS@krts.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:01:27 -0600
Subject: Snow Chains

Dear List;

I'm headed from Texas to Colorado next week, and am considering chains
for my rig.  Anyone know of good brands and/or retailers along the way. 
Of course websites would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Holidays and thanks in advance.

Herman

I'm currently having ISP trouble so I'll check the digest often, or you
can email me directly.

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:59:00 -0700
Subject: Re: snow chains

Wal-Marts, most auto parts stores, and I'm sure many other stores that
I'm unaware of all carry tire chains here in Colorado. JC Whitless,
which I believe has a web page, also carry them. I don't know that you
would need them, as I have never had to have them, but it never hurts to
have a set. Where in Colo are you going to?

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab

Stude, Herman L. wrote:
> Dear List;
> I'm headed from Texas to Colorado next week, and am considering chains
> for my rig.  Anyone know of good brands and/or retailers along the way.

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From: "Steve Rochna" <mns@oasisol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:50:29 -0800
Subject: Speedo Cable

All:

I recently replaced my speedo cable and sheath which needed replacing.  The
new inner speedo cable had a brass collar supposedly crimped onto the
dashboard end but was a bit loose at the time of installation evidentally. 
It worked it's way further into the speedo than it was designed for and
broke the cable.  

I'm here to report that you can get a new cable at your local parts store
and it is not only less that ten bucks but it is probably hanging on a wall
display.  I've never even thought of checking a parts store until this
afternoon.  You will need to cut it to length and take a hammer to the
(flat) end that fits into the Xfer case but it is otherwise the same cable.
 Obviously you will need a reasonably descent sheath to slip this into.  

Steve

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:08:54 -0500
Subject: Re: toe-in tips?

You can obtain an accurate reading by using the following procedure. Drive on 
to a
flat, level, concrete surface and make sure your wheels are pointing straight
ahead. Jack up one wheel at a time and put a broad chalk mark around the tire by
spinning it and holding the chalk against it at approx. the centre line. Using a
screwdriver and a brick or block of wood as a " rest" spin the wheel again and 
put
a thin line around the tire in the chalk mark. Using a plumb bob and a piece of
string place the string on the line arouind the tire and mark the points on the
ground at the front and the rear of the tires and then measure the distances at
the front and rear and deduct one from the other.

Jarvis64@aol.com wrote:

> Howdy fellow sufferers,
> Just did my toe-in--seems just as squirrely on the road as ever.
> The shop I had do it once used a little spring-loaded scribe to scribe a line
> on the spinning tires, and then used that line to measure the toe-in.
> Well, not owning any spring-loaded scribe thinggys, I just measured using the
> raised molding ridge at the center of the tire.

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From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:16:14 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: San Diego trip

Hi 

My name is Piet Fourie.  Towards the end of March I will be in the San
Diego area on businnes.  I am keen to meet some of the landy folks on the
other side of the world to see how you do things.

My wife and I only drive Land Rovers since it is the only thing that last
out here where we are.

Please contact me off-list.

Many thanks

Piet
1955 S1
1980 RR

P.A.H. Fourie   ( pah@saao.ac.za )
South African Astronomical Observatory.
P.O. Box 25 Sutherland 6920 South Africa.
Tel 023 5711135. Fax 023 5711413

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