Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:13:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Sputtering Again

Sounds like a coil on its way out. I have had just this happen. As the coil
heats up it progressively worse.
John and Muddy

Chris Stevens wrote:

> Once again my SIIA is in the sputter mode. The thing seems to start missing
> horribly--with sporadic backfiring--after driving for 15 or 20 minutes.
> Kinda like a loose plug wire or something. I've replaced the plug wires,
> points, condensor, rotor and cap and no luck. I'm also having a hard time
> setting an idle--have to advance the timing to get the Rover to run. Anyone
> have any experience with this? Could it be a faulty distributor (how can I
> tell), timing chain, coil?
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Chris Stevens
> Towso

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 98 08:47:45 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sticky" Clutch 

>Hi All -
>I think my clutch is acting up - more and more. 

What's this got to do with...oh never mind, by the subject line I thought we 
were still tlaking about the w*nker in the Jeep...

As for your clutch problem, I recommend rebuilding the faulty cylinder(s) and 
set it up according to the book. Oil in the bellhousing would drip out of the 
drain hole, and would cause slipping or judder and not the symptom you 
describe.
Aslo check the linkages, from pedal to bellhousing, for free play. If the 
clutch linkages are busy trying to take up salck then the end result is that 
the clutch is not fully disengaged.

later
daveb

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Keith R. Mohlenhoff" <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:27:10 -0500
Subject: 2.5 Diesel in 88" and tire sizes

Hi;
Anyone in the states running a 2.5 N.A. Diesel (not a 200)in an 88"? How
do you like the performance? Upgrades, lane changes, stuff like that?
Does it have a vacumn pump?

Does anyone know why when the 2.0 Diesel went to 2.25 the HP changed
from 51 to 62, but the 2.5 NA diesel was rated as 67HP? These numbers
from the Yellow Taylor book.

What is the limiting factor when putting tires on a wheel? I have 15"
rims on the 88".  I have seen 30 x 9.50/15 on Pathfinders that look
nice.

Personally, I perfer tall and thin

Thanks

Keith R. Mohlenhoff

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: JB Kropp <JB@flycast.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:05:08 -0800
Subject: Un-subscribe

Un-subscribe

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Monk" <monk@math.udel.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:44:30 -0500
Subject: Brake lines

Hi
Can someone take a look under their IIa SWB and tell me where the brake
line from the junction near the bulkhead to the rear flex hose is supposed
to run?  I think it goes down on the inboard side of the chassis and is clipped
to the spring mount before going to the flex hose (but this would leave a
fairly long piece unsupported).  Is it reasonable to run the line along the top
of the
chassis?

Thanks in advance!
Peter
----

67 IIa SWB

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 98 10:35:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 2.5 Diesel in 88" and tire sizes 

>Personally, I perfer tall and thin

Well I hope you don't end up with short and stout.

Mmmm...stout...MMmmm...guinness...

end free association...

Seriously. You can fit 33x 9.5's to the 15" rims. You will need to adjust the 
steering stop a little, but you will have ground clearance out the wazoo.

with the deisel though your gearing may be a little too high with these big 
"tars". You might want to find something closer to the 88's original tire size, 
like 6.5 x 16 or something...

later
daveb

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "scott wilson" <scratchstudio@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:52:18 PST
Subject: KEITH MOLENOFF!!!!!!

sorry for the post to the list... keith and I qre having
a bit of trouble contqcting eqch other... (and I cqn't
figure out these wacky french keyboqrds)

sorry. it took me this long to figure out thqt my email
address that i was giving everyone is not working.
qnyway... I'll call you soon...

-scott

btw... frank's an incredibly nice guy, and his wife is 
probably the best cook in england

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:31:39 -0500
Subject: Designs for improvement

C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com> wrote:

>Why the folks who build the Range Rover's radiator elected not to
>put a drain plug in the bottom like on my Series III is beyond me. "Remove
>the lower radiator hose" are the shop manual instructions for draining the
>coolant from a Range Rover.   Dumb. 

Same with the Disco.  Gotta remove the bottom rad hose....Anyway, I've been
trying to get the block drain plugs off.  Same style as the series vehicle
- a little tap with "ears", but on the 4.0 engine, it's way up under the
manifolds and almost impossible to get to, especially with a warm engine.
Thought about taking a suitable sized socket and cutting a big notch in it
to fit the "ears".  Anyone else done this?

On another note, the brake light switch failed recently.  Only got 26 years
outta it.  While I've got one coming from RN, I've heard tell that there is
a generic VW one that'll do....  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:06:46 -1000
Subject: Re: To sandblast or NOT?? THis is the question!

>Red Lead paint is very difficult to find in the US since it contains
>lead.
>If you do use it make sure no infants
>chew on your LR.
But let all the j@@p owners ya want chew away.
I was wondering is Red Lead more then just a lead based paint??
Cuss it sure seams that lead based paint cracks and chips pretty easily when
it was used on wood surfaces.
Aloha
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:26:18 -1000
Subject: Re: Designs for improvement

>Thought about taking a suitable sized socket and cutting a big notch in it
>to fit the "ears".  Anyone else done this?

Yeppers, have a handfull of sockets from my first no name tool set laying
about.  I cut a notch in oposite sides and also trimmed the overall hieght a
bit.  Dont need much more then 3/8ths depth.  You can either make your own
or hand 25$ to your local Snap-On man for a 'petcock socket'
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:31:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Replacing springs

Replacing springs is far easier if you undo both sides. Otherwise, you 
are fighting the spring on the opposite side, which makes simple things 
like lining up the shackle bolts a world easier. 
Jack up the concerned end of the truck and let the axles dangle from the 
check straps/ nothing.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:39:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Brake Bleeding

New snail cams too? The trouble is that you need to adjust the shoes so 
that they are just rubbing the drum. Should be a fair amount of effort to 
turn the wheels. Your brake troubles will disappear. No one tells you 
anywhere that Rovers like their shoes tight.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:46:00 -0800
Subject: re: styrofoam roof insulation

Hi All - I'm going to insulate my roof with some styrofoam  . . .etc

     I did this a few years ago while living up in Smithers, BC (gets very 
     cold....).

I'm sure it will work o.k. - I considered the same a few years ago after
seeing how easilt it burns and the gasses given off when it does burn

     I used the 2 foot by 8 foot 1" blue stuff that is used for house 
     siding, with an R value of about 9-10.  It worked ok, but heed the 
     following:
     1) it creaks something terrible unless you insulate all the foam/foam 
     joints with tape
     2) it *will* fall down unless mechanically supported.  I had mine 
     tucked in igloo style and it worked for awhile until it decided to 
     fall down.
     3) keeping #2 in mind, if you can find 1/2" or 3/4" thick styrofoam 
     instead, it will be easier to use.
     
     I redid mine with tasteful grey (!!!) auto carpet and underlay a 
     couple of years ago, only to have it fall out too.  I am redoing it 
     again with the same underlay, but will be using industrial grade 
     silicone instead of the crappy spray on 3M adhesive that was 
     recommended.  If I was going to do it all over again, I would consider 
     using one or all of the following insted of the underlay:
     1) blue 1/2" closed cell ethafoam camping mattress material.  This 
     stuff is amazingly insulative.  I have 3 pieces that fit in behind the 
     vents in the IIA.  To fix it to the roof and then to the carpet one 
     will have to get creative though.  I figured to seriously rough up 
     both sides with coarse sandpaper and slather in silicone to create a 
     mechanical/chemical bond.  And cut 2" wide strips of 1/8" MDF covered 
     with carpet and screwed to the roof cross ribs to help hold it up as 
     well (will do this with what I am doing now)
     2) use 1-2 layers of that reflectex.  It is amazing stuff and is easy 
     to work with.  I am using it for temperature/sound deadining with some 
     success on my floorboards under 3/8" rubber anti fatigue matting.
     
     I did not notice any functional difference in the heat loss/retention 
     between carpet/underlay and the styrofoam.  Both nullfied the OEM 
     roof-defrost option that was previously installed.  The carpet looks 
     *way* better, is easier to apply and adds a noticeable amount of sound 
     deadening that the styrofoam does not.  The carpet I used is a closed 
     nap.  I would look at getting a tasteful indoor/outdor carpet instead 
     (yes it exists) as the nap markedly improves sound deadening.  I will 
     probaly use this styrofoam to insulate the sides though, as it is nice 
     and stiff.  I jsut need to find the right glue to hold the carpet to 
     it.  Oh, and it makes really nice under-the-truck sliders for those 
     cold concrete days...
     
     Brrrrrrr....
     
     Clinton

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:55:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Front engine cover seal leaking

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:48:09 +0100
Subject: Front engine cover seal leaking

>On removing my radiator, I discovered that my engine is leaking a little
oil (easy to spot as the block is newly painted). It seems to be coming
from the seal behind the lower cranckshaft pulley wheel (where the
starting handle fits).  Question - is this serious (I know it's normal!) I
doubt if the quantity
is a problem.

What's leaking is the front engine oil seal, which is in the timing chain
cover.  To change it properly you have to remove the timing chain cover,
which means removing the crankshaft pulley, radiator, fan, water pump, and
sump pan.  It's not a big deal, but it is a bit time consuming.  You may be
able to change the seal without removing the timing chain cover: I changed
mine when the engine was out of the vehicle so all that other stuff was
done anyway.

One thing to be aware of is that there is a good possibility you will find
a groove worn in the front pulley shaft by the edge of the seal over the
years.  If this is the case (which it is on my vehicle right now) changing
the seal will not accomplish much because the groove will prevent the new
seal from making a tight fit.  You might be able to seat the new seal in
the timing chain cover so it's not all the way in which would mean the seal
lip would contact the pulley shaft in a different place, but the seal is
pretty thin and the place where it fits is pretty thin, so I suspect you
don't have much room for adjustment.  And I'm not sure I'd want to put the
engine back together with a partially seated seal, even if I had done it on
purpose.  In any event, I suspect the difference in position wouldn't be
that great, so the seal lip will "find" the groove, anyway.

The best thing to do is replace the front pulley along with fitting a new
seal.  I have a new front pulley for my Series III, but the leak isn't bad
enough to warrant all the work of replacing it yet.  Besides, I figure all
that oil spraying back under the vehicle is keeping everything lubricated
and helping to prevent rust :-).  And I susbscribe to the old
Harley-Davidson theory of total loss lubrication: the more oil that leaks
out, the more new oil you have to put in, which means the cleaner the oil
is inside the engine.

If, when you pull the pulley, there isn't a groove, then replacing the seal
should do the trick.  By the way, the same thing can happen to the parking
brake drum: the rear oil seal in the transfer case can "score" the shaft
over the years.  Again, the only real cure is to replace the drum along
with the seal.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:04:21 -1000
Subject: tire sizes (was 88" diesel and tires)

>What is the limiting factor when putting tires on a wheel? I have 15"
>rims on the 88".  I have seen 30 x 9.50/15 on Pathfinders that look
>nice.

The limiting factor of putting a tire on a wheel is the wheel width.
Lets say you wanted to put the 30x9.50R15 on a 15x10 rim.  It would be very
very  hard to get the tire to bead on the rim.  Depending on how the tire
was stored, the distance between the beads can be as little as 4".  You
wanna ruin a tire changers day, try that.
Other problems with too wide of a rim are:
   it can cause the tread to cup in, you have to run higher then normal psi
to counter this or accept
            your tires wearing quickly.
   the sidewalls go verticle, this reduces the amount by which the tire
flexes and absorbs  the bumps.
   it is much easier to have the bead slip off the tire.
Going the other way, too narrow a rim:
   Sidewalls bow out too much, more sidewall damage
   Tread can bow out, center wear.
    Bead  slippage again
The rim width will also affect the overall height of the tire.  The width
measurement on standard inch-sized truck tires is taken at the widest part
of the tire (approximately the high sidewall/low shoulder) as measured on a
standard rim, not the width of the tread and not the width of the bead.  The
problem is of course with the "standard" rim.  Each manufacturer uses what
they want for the measurement, their is no industry standard.  Michelin may
place this tire on a 15x6 to get their figures while Firestone uses a 15x7.
Easiest thing to do is to find the tread pattern you want.  Go to that
manufacturers dealer and get the spec sheet for the tire.  Find the widest
tire that will fit on your rim.  See what size rim they used for their
dimensions.  If your rim is narrower, the mounted tire will be a bit wider
and shorter (I know this sounds wrong, but that's  what happens) if you rim
is wider then the tire will be narrower and taller.  This difference can be
over an inch if you are far from the manufacturers recommended  width.  Keep
with the recommendations  and plan on up to an inch of difference.  Use the
manufacturers dimensions to then determine if the wheel/tire combo will fit
your vehicle.
I hope the above didn't confuse you too much
Aloha
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Fred Dushin <fadushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:34:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Brake Lines

> Can someone take a look under their IIa SWB and tell me where the
> brake line from the junction near the bulkhead to the rear flex hose
> is supposed to run?  I think it goes down on the inboard side of the
> chassis and is clipped to the spring mount before going to the flex hose
> (but this would leave a fairly long piece unsupported).  Is it reasonable
> to run the line along the top of the chassis?

I have two spring clips, one up front near the engine x-member
and another near the gas tank.  Both on the inside of the chassis.
After that I have a good 12-14" in open air to the flex line.

Fred 
'64 IIA Regular

--
Fred Dushin                      mailto:fadushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu
PGP public key available at      http://blackcat.cat.syr.edu/~fadushin/pgp

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:42:56 -0500
Subject: Re: CT Vehicles

<< 98 Tierra Del Fuego Flatlander >>

Should`nt that be Freeloader ?
 Paul

 Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:11

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT  (1984)
 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:48:06 -1000
Subject: Re: CT Vehicles

><< 98 Tierra Del Fuego Flatlander >>
>Should`nt that be Freeloader ?
> Paul
not sure, but my way of thinking is that they way the vehicle was designed
it may not go so great on other then "flatland"
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:44:00 -0800
Subject: groovy seals

If, when you pull the pulley, there isn't a groove, then replacing the seal
should do the trick.  By the way, the same thing can happen to the parking
brake drum: the rear oil seal in the transfer case can "score" the shaft
over the years.  Again, the only real cure is to replace the drum along
with the seal.

     I wonder if getting a speedi sleeve would be an option in these cases?
     
     Clinton

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:47:00 -0800
Subject: more groovy seals

And something else.  I know one can get offset seals for semi floating 
axles on north american rigs which allow the axle to be used if the run 
(race?) for the seal is pitted/grooved.  It might be possible in this case 
as well.

Clinton

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 98 17:25:46 -0500
Subject: Re: groovy seals 

     >I wonder if getting a speedi sleeve would be an option in these cases?

I have speedi-sleeved the front crank and differential pinion. the front 
continued to leak around the screws after I reinstalled the retainer plate. I 
ignored it as it was minimal. Next time I will put sealant on the screws. 
Speedi sleeves work wonders...

later
dave
 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:42:14
Subject: Re: tire sizes

	33/9.50/15" with an advertised diameter in BFG mud terrains of 32.8 
inches
are about the largest diameter that will work on the series.  That may be a
bit large diameter for the gearing off road, should give a nice highway
cruise on relatively flat land, however.  It seems like a neat tire if it
is not too tall and there are probably tons of 15" wheels laying around for
cheap to nothing, which is not the case with 16" wheels, if you wanted to
have a set of road and off road tires.  Wonder if anyone on the list has
used the 33/9.50/15"???   I've seriously thought about them as my 16" rims
are bent and I have at least 10 of the 15" in the shed. 
	7.50/16 which was the stock tire on the 109 truck is advertised at 32.1"
diameter in bfg trac edges.  That is nearly identical to the 235/85/16 at
32" in bfg mud terrains.  Incidentally, 88's came with 7.00/16's everywhere
else in the world except north America.  That is a slightly smaller
diameter tire than a 7.50/16.  The only difference between a 109 and an 88
are 21" in the frame aft of the seat bulkhead so there is no reason not to
run the larger size on the 88 also.  
	The 30/9.50/15" are only 29.9" in diameter which is marginal to useless
off road because of a lack of ground clearance.  Had similar tires on my 88
when I bought it.  The transmission cross piece is very mangled and I got
hung up so many times that I kept the jack permanently on the passenger
side floor so I could get the car off the most recent rock.  Rocks may not
be a problem where you are but ruts and mud probably are.  Damn rovers
don't move well when buried to the frame and its a lot easier to do with
minimal ground clearance.  Just think how off road capable your typical
stock explorer or wrangler are which all ride on 235/75/15" tires from the
factory.
	If you want to stick with 15" wheels, explore the 33/9.50/15".
Personally, I'd go with the 16" rims and a tire around 32" diameter.  RN
has those nifty 130 wheels in stock.  BP stocks 6.5" wide 16" diameter
stock wheels which are designed for the 235/85/16. 

>What is the limiting factor when putting tires on a wheel? I have 15"
>rims on the 88".  I have seen 30 x 9.50/15 on Pathfinders that look
>nice.

Asked that question before.  Consensus was that they changed measuring
systems from SAE to whatever is in effect now after the 2.25.  Old SAE
ratings had the engine running without engine driven fan, fuel pump,
generator, etc and was very optimistic.  New measurement is closer to the
old DIN horsepower which included the ancillaries necessary to make the
engine run in a normal car.  The 2.5 n/a diesel seems to be a good swap for
those of us who can live with a 2.25 petrol but want better mileage.
Problem is that complete new engines are advertised at 2,500 pounds in
England so you'd never amortize the cost in fuel savings.

HP went from 51 to 62 with 2.00 to 2.25 increase , but the 2.5 NA diesel
was rated as 67HP? These numbers
>from the Yellow Taylor book.

Aloha Peter

>Personally, I perfer tall and thin
>Thanks
>Keith R. Mohlenhoff

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:46:02 -0000
Subject: Re: To sandblast or NOT?? THis is the question!

I use British Army red lead more properly called, on the tin, Lead Oxide
Rust Primer. Dunno if it differs around the globe but I changed from
Hammerite after helping a friend strip down his Ltwt....  with grinders and
wire brushes we consistently found good clean red lead under all the sh*t,
while I've got Hammerited bits and pieces which have chipped away....

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:38:05 -0000
Subject: Re: KEITH MOLENOFF!!!!!!

.>>.. frank's an incredibly nice guy, and his wife is 
probably the best cook in england>>

I could have told you that :-)>

anon

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:50:55 -0000
Subject: Re: styrofoam roof insulation

 <<    I redid mine with tasteful grey (!!!) auto carpet and underlay a
     couple of years ago, only to have it fall out too.  I am redoing it >>

we use cord carpet in the UK. It comes with foam attached and goes on easily
with Dunlop Thixofix, brush on adhesive.
Easier if you can take the top off to do it but possible with the roof still
on - get a good 'high' off the fumes as well :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:59:26 EST
Subject: speedo repairers?

Howdy folks,
Speedo doing the crazy needle thing.  Just tightened cable.  Think I need to
have original speedo (which will be more accurate w/ my 16" wheels anyway)
fixed and throw it  back in.

Anyone know of anyone in the 'States who can fix 'em?  I saw Nissonger
mentioned re. temp guages--what about speedos?

Bill Rice
Currently in Hackettstown, NJ, w/ back of Mrs Merdle covered with 90w after
1000 mile trip
109SW Mrs. Merdle

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:48:33
Subject: Re: groovy seals

	BP has speedi sleeves at $50 something for the transmission output 
flange.
 You don't need a new drum.  They also stock an aftermarket front pulley
for $50 something.  Both of these fixes are at least a 1/3rd cheaper than
buying genuine rover replacements.
	Have never used a speedi sleeve, does it take a machine shop to install.
That cost would have to be added onto the decision whether to replace or
renew.

At 01:44 PM 12/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>If, when you pull the pulley, there isn't a groove, then replacing the seal
>should do the trick.  By the way, the same thing can happen to the parking
>brake drum: the rear oil seal in the transfer case can "score" the shaft
>over the years.  Again, the only real cure is to replace the drum along
>with the seal.
>     I wonder if getting a speedi sleeve would be an option in these cases?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>     I wonder if getting a speedi sleeve would be an option in these cases?
>     Clinton

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:24:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: To sandblast or NOT?? THis is the question!

>...after helping a friend strip down his Ltwt....  with grinders and
>wire brushes we consistently found good clean red lead under all the sh*t,

Hey, that's interesting, under the bronze green on my '65 Ex-MoD IIA, I've
got red paint - wonder if it is the red lead stuff?  I think it is under
the bulkhead paint.

Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:25:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: speedo repairers?

>Anyone know of anyone in the 'States who can fix 'em?  I saw Nissonger
>mentioned re. temp guages--what about speedos?

I think they'll do any guages...

Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:03:49 -0000
Subject: Re: groovy seals 

go on then, I'll bite
wot the hell is a speedi sleeve??
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+            
     I !__|  [_]|_\___   
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV 
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:10:46 -0000
Subject: Re: tire sizes

<<7.50/16 which was the stock tire on the 109 truck is advertised at 32.1"
diameter in bfg trac edges.  That is nearly identical to the 235/85/16 at
32" in bfg mud terrains.  Incidentally, 88's came with 7.00/16's everywhere
else in the world except north America>>>

my General Grabbers (on 16s) 235.85s are exactly the same size as a 7.50 -
on the same wheels, I measured while changing them. as in stood them up
against each other.
I wouldn't run a smaller tyre and would feel uncomfortable with anything
much higher without a lift .......
7.50 is the standard size for UK offroading....
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:46:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Designs for improvement

Re: Brake switch:

The hydraulic brake line switch on early II and IIas is the same one used by the
VW Beetle - cheap and easy to source.

Also used byt older Jags and other Brittoys, but the Bug's easier to source
parts for.

                         ajr

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:42:05 -0000
Subject: Re: To sandblast or NOT?? THis is the question!

Peter,
is it's a sort of orangey red it will be, the bulkhead steel bits woulda got
a liberal coating from a squaddie...
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:08:06 -0500
Subject: Re: more groovy seals

The other option instead of replacingt the pulley in these cases is to
Speedi-Sleeve the pulley shaft. Works for the driveshaft coupling from the
transmission also.

For the uninitiated, the Speedi-Sleeve is a hardened steel sleeve that fits over
the original bearing surface, and is thin enough to work with the original seal
type (no modifications and takes standard parts!)

Of course, if you are friendly with a machinist rewelding and cutting the
bearing surface is an option I've always liked...<grin>.

                    ajr

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:51:39 -0500
Subject: Re: tire sizes

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

> Incidentally, 88's came with 7.00/16's everywhere
> else in the world except north America.  That is a slightly smaller
> diameter tire than a 7.50/16.

All the LR sales literature I have for SII and SIIA show 6.00x16 as the
standard 88 tire, and 7.50x16 as the standard 109 tire. This is both UK
published and US published literature. Mid- to late-60's UK literature
lists tire sizes from 6.00x16 to 7.50x16 as available for 88's. It also
lists special 8.00x15 and 9.00x15 sand tires, which I believe used
special wheels. I also looked in several Brooklands reprints of LR road
tests. Only a couple mentioned tire size, and they were 6.00x16 or
6.50x16 for the 88. Eyeballing the photos, all the SII/SIIA 88s looked
like they had 6.00x16 or 6.50x16, certainly not 7.50x16.

Our '60 SII 88 SW still has the original TrakGrip spare, which I believe
is a 6.50x16, but I'll have to check it.

>  The only difference between a 109 and an 88
> are 21" in the frame aft of the seat bulkhead so there is no reason
> not to
> run the larger size on the 88 also.

On of our SII 88s currently has 7.50x16 tires. The only problem is the
steering stops on the front axle need to be adjusted so that the tires
don't rub on the springs at full lock steering. This increases turning
circle slightly. Also, the standard 88 rims should be replaced with
wider 109 rims. BTW, isn't the bulkhead on a 109 further back than on a
88?

Regards,
David Cockey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:10:22
Subject: seats

This is more for the SERIES owners. On the coiler digest the Disco. owners
are complaining about their seats being UNCOMFORTABLE!! Boy, if you were to
put those tinder yuppy behinds in a series Rover with stock seats, they
would all be in need of preperation H 8^). 

Jim Wolf

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:40:56 -0500
Subject: Re: seats

Re: uncomfortable seats in a Disco:

Next they'll be complaining that their cars are too slow and noisy....

                    aj"Far too doggone funny....."r

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@netscape.net>
Date: 21 Dec 98 18:56:31 MST
Subject: Art's cooking with mayo

Hey all!

Some More on the steaming Aardvark. I only made it 'bout 3 miles out of town
on the interstate, although did have to wait for 10 minutes idleing at the gas
station (waiting for a twit in a J**p to get out of the way.)

Never did have heat until I removed the thermostat, and I'm thinking the
reason it over heated again , was that I Hadn't fully refilled the radiator
cooling system (gallon of water I carry in the back was frozen!)

Never did fully go into the red on the way back home with rag in radiator
neck.

Hopefully the tiny bit of Mayo was just from condensation from all the staem I
was putting out when the overflow hose came off (is that hode normally
clamped?) When I get home (took the Greyhound to my sisters) the first of year
I'll be ordedering a new thermostat and radiator cap(and a new head gasket
-just in case) but I'm thinking that the mayo was just a scare tactic that
Aardvark was trying to pull to get me to spend more money on her!!

Art Bitterman
1960 SII "Aardvark"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:01:35 -0800
Subject: plastic fuel lines, d90 vacuum booster/master cylinder in a

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the advice on the low compression on the Sii 109 2.25
petrol...still haven't plowed deep enough into the engine to know for sure
what the cause is...I will report back when I do know.

On another topic, I notice that original fuel lines appear to be these hard
plastic lines vs the rubber fuel hose one buys off the shelf.  Any opinions
on which is more durable?  I personally feel more comfortable with the
thicker wall rubber hose.

Also, has anyone put a D90 vacuum booster/master cylinder into a series
rover to go to dual circuit braking?  I hear that hood/bonnet clearance
might be an issue.

Thanks

John

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:02:43 EST
Subject: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

Hi all,

I saw Chris Stevens at Sears tonight and we were lamenting our Rover problems.
His with idling, mine with lack of power.  After tinkering with his rover, I
went home.  

Since the engine rebuild and replacement, the Brick has run but is low on
power and difficult to start when warm, almost like the engine was
flooding...hesitation on acceleration and decreased power.

Well, I got home, popped the bonnet and stood there looking at the carb (a
Weber) trying to decide what was the problem.  

Remember, I had to set the dizzy 180 out of phase to get it to start, but the
timing mark was at TDC.

While watching, not touching anything, it backfired through the carb and died.
I could not restart it.  It would backfire through the carb.  This is what it
did when I was 180 out of phase so I removed the #1 plug and checked.  D@mn!
IT HAD FLIPPED 180 BACK TO THE CORRECT TIMING POSITION!  I reset the wires and
fired it up.  Ran like a dream.  Put the timing light on it and it was set
about 20 degrees before TDC.  If I tried to rotate it to TDC, the rev's
dropped and the engine almost dies.  Set it back to the highest revs (about
20degrees BTDC) and reset the idle speed and mixture.

Took it out for a test drive and it runs like a bat out of hell.  Acceleration
like it never had.  I can accelerate up a steep hill in 3rd OD.

Anyone heard of this kind of thing before?

Nate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Steve Rochna" <mns@oasisol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:00:28 -0800
Subject: re:Interior trim

To all who replied:

The trim has gome to a new home where it will be fell fed and cared for. 
Thanks for the response - too bad I don't have more sets of the stuff.

Steve

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Steve Rochna" <mns@oasisol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:05:38 -0800
Subject: Power on 2.25

All:

Before the barbs fly, I do realise that this is not a race car - more of a
tractor.  That said I'm looking for a relatively cheap way to get more
power out of the thing.  This engine only has about 4000 miles on it but
being at 4000'msl is killing me for power.  Looking at different carbs for
increased breathing leads me to a 1 3/4" SU or a weber 32/36.  Where can
these things be had?  Has anyone out there done this?

Thanks - Steve

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 98 20:38:16 -0800
Subject: Re: tire sizes

>	33/9.50/15" with an advertised diameter in BFG mud terrains
> of 32.8 inches are about the largest diameter that will work
> on the series.
<SNIP>
;>7.50/16 which was the stock tire on the 109 truck is advertised
;> at 32.1" diameter in bfg trac edges.  
;>That is nearly identical to the 235/85/16 at 32" in bfg mud terrains.
<snip>
;>	The 30/9.50/15" are only 29.9" in diameter

For another data point, I have 265/75/16s on my 109.  They are 32" dia.
I use the 7 " wide Discovery stamped steel wheels with these tyres.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 98 20:43:02 -0800
Subject: Re: CT Vehicles

>><< 98 Tierra Del Fuego Flatlander >>
>>Should`nt that be Freeloader ?
;
;>not sure, but my way of thinking is that they way the vehicle was 
designed
;>it may not go so great on other then "flatland"

Think that this is why Rover is rethinking the Camel Trophy event and why 
there will be no 1999 Camel Trophy?  The Flatliners just don't hack it as 
the heart beat of Rover??

I already thought it was interesting that the Discoveries required 110 
support cars and not other Discoveries as support cars.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:19:11
Subject: Re: tire sizes

	Guess I was wrong on the 700 size for the 88, knew it was smaller but
didn't realize they were that much narrower.  In any case, just wanted to
be sure people didn't think 15" wheels were normal on the 88.  Apparently
Rover felt the 2.25 needed the appearance of greater acceleration that the
smaller diameter tires would give.  Unfortunately they gave up ground
clearance and freeway cruising for the small increase in acceleration.  Of
course this was about the same time that the Faerey overdrive became
available.  Rover should have made the o/d standard with the 15" wheels to
get the cruising speed backup.  My 88 had 15" wheels originally.  When I
switched to 16" wheels and 7.50's and now 235's I didn't have to change the
axle stops.  The 88 16" rims were 5" wide while the 109's were 5.5".  I
used 109 inch rims on mine but doubt that the narrower rims would rule out
the 7.50 or 235 tires.  Of course wider is better up to a point.
Apparently 6.5" inch are standard on the Euro 90 which run 235's

As far as the bulkhead, there is no difference in location between the 109
and 88.  The six cylinder had the bell housing box extended to the edge of
the dash.  This allowed the 6's extra two cylinders to sit further aft with
the transmission sliding aft also.  The radiator, etc. were located in the
same position and I believe the front of the 6 was in the same position as
the four, though don't quote me on this.  The engine/transmission mounts
were in different locations.  Don't know if both the engine and trans or
just the transmission mounts.

Aloha Peter

At 07:51 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:20:28
Subject: Re: tire sizes

	Guess I was wrong on the 700 size for the 88, knew it was smaller but
didn't realize they were that much narrower.  In any case, just wanted to
be sure people didn't think 15" wheels were normal on the 88.  Apparently
Rover felt the 2.25 needed the appearance of greater acceleration that the
smaller diameter tires would give.  Unfortunately they gave up ground
clearance and freeway cruising for the small increase in acceleration.  Of
course this was about the same time that the Faerey overdrive became
available.  Rover should have made the o/d standard with the 15" wheels to
get the cruising speed backup.  My 88 had 15" wheels originally.  When I
switched to 16" wheels and 7.50's and now 235's I didn't have to change the
axle stops.  The 88 16" rims were 5" wide while the 109's were 5.5".  I
used 109 inch rims on mine but doubt that the narrower rims would rule out
the 7.50 or 235 tires.  Of course wider is better up to a point.
Apparently 6.5" inch are standard on the Euro 90 which run 235's

As far as the bulkhead, there is no difference in location between the 109
and 88.  The six cylinder had the bell housing box extended to the edge of
the dash.  This allowed the 6's extra two cylinders to sit further aft with
the transmission sliding aft also.  The radiator, etc. were located in the
same position and I believe the front of the 6 was in the same position as
the four, though don't quote me on this.  The engine/transmission mounts
were in different locations.  Don't know if both the engine and trans or
just the transmission mounts.

Aloha Peter

At 07:51 PM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:
>> Incidentally, 88's came with 7.00/16's everywhere
>> else in the world except north America.  That is a slightly smaller
>> diameter tire than a 7.50/16.
>All the LR sales literature I have for SII and SIIA show 6.00x16 as the
>standard 88 tire, and 7.50x16 as the standard 109 tire. This is both UK
>published and US published literature. Mid- to late-60's UK literature
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 33 lines)]
>Regards,
>David Cockey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:33:21
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick/timing

Yours is not the only one and mine is 180 out also.  Mine seems to idle the
best at around 20 degrees of advance though I've set it at 6 degrees.  Did
it with both the old 3 main and now the new 5 main, also.  

Could someone post the proper method to set the timing by ear.  Thought it
was to rotate the distributor until max rpm at idle then retard slightly.
Is that right???

Aloha Peter

A  If I tried to rotate it to TDC, the rev's
>dropped and the engine almost dies.  Set it back to the highest revs (about
>20degrees BTDC) and reset the idle speed and mixture.
>Took it out for a test drive and it runs like a bat out of hell.

Acceleration
>like it never had.  I can accelerate up a steep hill in 3rd OD.
>Anyone heard of this kind of thing before?
>Nate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:42:27
Subject: Re: Power on 2.25

	I've been running the 2 barrel weber with the Pearce manifold since
forever.  Mine has worked fine without the hesitation that many have when
the second barrel opens.  Just discovered that I've been running 130/140
jets which are supposedly too small.  Don't tell my engine, it hasn't
figured it out.  You can get a kit that simultaneous opens both barrels.
Stops the hesitation (if you have it) when the second barrel opens and
supposedly doesn't adversely affect gas mileage as you use smaller jets in
the carb.  Since I've never run anything but the weber, can't give you any
idea what, if any, difference in power the 2 barrel makes.  Rumor has it
that it works best with the 2.5 cam which was designed to run with this
carb.  At 4,000 feet you might need to rejet your existing carb, by the way.

	Check the boss on the manifold next to the carburator to see if you have
an 8 stamped on it.  If you have nothing or a 7 it is probably a 7-1 head
so milling the head would give you some easy increase in power.

Aloha Peter

>Before the barbs fly, I do realise that this is not a race car - more of a
>tractor.  That said I'm looking for a relatively cheap way to get more
>power out of the thing.  This engine only has about 4000 miles on it but
>being at 4000'msl is killing me for power.  Looking at different carbs for
>increased breathing leads me to a 1 3/4" SU or a weber 32/36.  Where can
>these things be had?  Has anyone out there done this?
>Thanks - Steve

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Bill Caloccia <caloccia@senie.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:41:19 -0500
Subject: rover parts for sale www.caloccia.net/forsale

HELLA RALLY 2000s 

LUCAS 20/20  Lamps:

Series: mud shield, foot boxes
Series (used): wind screen, rear door, 88" hard top, check straps

Rangie BULL BAR
Rangie (county) driving lamps (in air dam)
Rangie bearmach grille with lamp
Rangie 3 spoke wheels

pull-off ford mustang lx alloys wheels, c. 1989
used: merkur XR4Ti lowering kit...

Happy Holidays & Cheers,
          Bill Caloccia			forsale@Caloccia.Net
	 http://www.Caloccia.Net/wpc/
				  R
       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
   R  1  3  2wd  H OD		  D
   +--|--|   o   | |           L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L N           |  2	    because
   '63 SII  RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:48:40
Subject: Re: plastic fuel lines, d90 vacuum booster/master cylinder in a

	By 1970 the 88 had power assisted brakes.  The earlier type inner fender
needs to be cut out to clear the power assist donut or use the later model
inner fender.  I think the 109's used the same set up with a larger
diameter master cylinder.  I was thinking of converting my 109 to the later
style as it was also the safer dual system but the newer master cylinder
was $195 and the power assist donut nearly $300 more.  Will live with the
old cb master for a while longer. 

>Also, has anyone put a D90 vacuum booster/master cylinder into a series
>rover to go to dual circuit braking?  I hear that hood/bonnet clearance
>might be an issue.
>Thanks
>John

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:54:18 EST
Subject: Re: speedo repairers?

In a message dated 98-12-21 18:07:23 EST, you write:

 Howdy folks,
 Speedo doing the crazy needle thing.  Just tightened cable.  Think I need to
 have original speedo (which will be more accurate w/ my 16" wheels anyway)
 fixed and throw it  back in.
 
 Anyone know of anyone in the 'States who can fix 'em?  I saw Nissonger
 mentioned re. temp guages--what about speedos?
 
 Bill Rice
 Currently in Hackettstown, NJ, w/ back of Mrs Merdle covered with 90w after
 1000 mile trip
 109SW Mrs. Merdle >>
Hi Bill, MOMA in Albuquerque. 505 766-6661. Good luck.

Bill lawrence
Albq, NM

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:19:12 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: Weirdest F*ckin' Thing With The Brick

Hi 

It is possible to get the impression that the distributor is 180 out if
the TDC mark is in the right place. According to the landy factory
manual you have to remove the tappet cover and check that the valves on
piston four is completely closed, tappets free.  I had a look at my
distributor and you can get the TDCmark lined up and the rotor will
point 180 out, on the next revolution to TDC the rotor points in the right
direction. It has caught me as well before. 
If you have a problem where the timing jumped 180 degress you have to
check that the top section of the distributor has seated with the bottom
section.  Remember it has only one bolt which hold the complete assembly
together.  If the clamp around the top bit is not flat with the
distributor you can get a bit of mis alignment which can throw the whole
thing out. 

Regards
Piet

1955 S1
1980 RR

P.A.H. Fourie   ( pah@saao.ac.za )
South African Astronomical Observatory.
P.O. Box 25 Sutherland 6920 South Africa.
Tel 023 5711135. Fax 023 5711413

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Robert McCullough" <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:42:44 -0500
Subject: drain plug
	charset="iso-8859-1"

sandy, robert d. has the rover tool if you need it. right tool for the =
job

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE2D76.47CC1320
	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; ]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 53 lines 0 [forwarded 175 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 1585 [content 1346  forwarded 143 (cut  32) whitespace 0]

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-1999 by the original poster or/and Empire Rover Owners Society, All rights reserved. Photos & text Copyright 1990-1999 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Empire/LRO List of charges for Empire/LRO Policies against the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Empire/LRO fees for the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Frequently Asked Questions
<--Back	HOME	TOP	Forward -->	height=31 width=88 alt="Made with Macintosh" border=0>