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From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:20:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

Guess I must be an exception.  I learned to drive on a standard transmission
and prefer it over an automatic.  Much more control and more fun to drive.

At 06:26 AM 12/16/98 -0500, you wrote:

owned a 4
>or 5 speed at one time or another. <snip>
>I've been unsuccessfully trying to teach my wife how to drive a standard
>transmission...<shudder>.
>                              ajr

Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Coniston Green D90 SW
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW
'93 D110

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:28:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

Lorri adds:

Guess I must be an exception.  I learned to drive on a standard transmission
and prefer it over an automatic.  Much more control and more fun to drive.

You are - last time I checked the demographics it was about double.

Of course, your being exceptional is not a surprise, as you've shown yourself to
be the top of the food chain in any case - a Land-Rover owner.

                    ajr

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From: Leger Marc-Andre <mleger@wefa.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:33:20 -0500
Subject: RE: Stick 'em Up

Many people here (North America) prefer automatic for city driving,
particularly in big city traffic. On the highway there is , of course, no
difference as staying in 5th is the same as staying in D (or OD). I think
the reason of convinience and easyness is what made automatic catch on big
here, even if it is a french invention (Citroen). Most North-Americans can
drive standard and many younger people (of both sexes) prefer them as they
are more sporty and often less expensive (aprox. 500$). What is called here
SUV's (city slicker's 4x4) are often purchased by older (read richer) adults
(or Yuppies and the likes), often as a corporate car (it can be claimed as a
business expense), they want convinience and simplicity... probably why LR's
more recent products in NA are only available in Automatic, simple product
targetting...

BTW, Happy Hanuka, Merry Chrismas, Ramadan and other seasonal greetings... 

   }\/\/\/\{ Marc-Andre Leger
   |       | Network Eng.
  ()()---, | WEFA inc.
 (_        | 800 Baldwin Tower
   |_______| Eddystone Pennsylvania
   -/\-----| USA 19022
  |/\/ , , | (610) 490-2763
  /\/  |_| | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com
  -~    || | http://www.wefa.com
  |_____||_| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/8098/

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  Albert
Einstein  

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:19:26 +1100
Subject: name for new RR

John Putnam wrote -
>I now need to come up with a fitting name
>troubles to get the damn thing.  Your suggestions are welcome.

Lee Dunkelberg wrote:
>Somehow, "Jail Bait" comes to mind.

In Australia, "Gaol Bait" (let's get the spelling right for the LR list),
is a girl under the age of consent or 16 years old down here.

He also said:
>I'll take a Guinness or a Sheaf Stout, please.

Sheaf Stout???  The Australian brew?  I have to admit it....

I've never tasted Guinness (or Sheaf Stout) - it looks awful.  I'll stick
with my red wine.

Ron

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From: Leger Marc-Andre <mleger@wefa.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:15:44 -0500
Subject: RE: name for new RR

New name for Land Rover : Solihul Motor Works...

   }\/\/\/\{ Marc-Andre Leger
   |       | Network Eng.
  ()()---, | WEFA inc.
 (_        | 800 Baldwin Tower
   |_______| Eddystone Pennsylvania
   -/\-----| USA 19022
  |/\/ , , | (610) 490-2763
  /\/  |_| | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com
  -~    || | http://www.wefa.com
  |_____||_| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/8098/

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  Albert
Einstein  

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:46:53 +0200
Subject: Re: name for new RR

The Becketts wrote:
> I've never tasted Guinness (or Sheaf Stout) - it looks awful.  I'll stick
> with my red wine.

Oh, come now Ron, what do Ozzies know about red wine? :-)
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: "Ivan Luki\\'c" <Ivan___L@ieent.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:17:12 +0100
Subject: (no subject)

sub Ivan Lukic

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:04:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Stick 'em Up

On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Leger Marc-Andre wrote:

:difference as staying in 5th is the same as staying in D (or OD). I think
:the reason of convinience and easyness is what made automatic catch on big
:here, even if it is a french invention (Citroen). Most North-Americans can
:drive standard and many younger people (of both sexes) prefer them as they
:are more sporty and often less expensive (aprox. 500$). What is called here

The car companies seem to not want to offer manual transmissions.  I was
looking at buying a new car a few months ago, and had lots of
conversations like "What you mean I can't get power mirrors with a stick
shift?"  

David

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From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@drexel.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:51:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

According to Adrian Redmond:
> USA chose to follow the same principle - arriving at a TV frame rate of
> 30 f.p.s. (in the black and white days) - which lay a long way from
> cinemas 24 f.p.s. necessitating some expensive conversions or
> compromises. When colour TV was introduced, Europe stayed on 25 f.p.s.
> but the US in it's wisdom arrived at the NTSC system (we we maintain
> stands for Never Twice the Same Colour) which for some obscure reason to
> do with colour frequencies needed 29.97 frames per second, making it
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> colour reproduction - every veiwer has to adjust the colour phase of
> every tv receiver - talk about anachronisms.

FWIW, I learned that NTSC TV synch systems use a local oscillator (rather 
than line frequency) and to avoid harmonic interference and "beats" in the 
display a frame rate slightly less than 30 fps was chosen.  At least 
that's what my Communications Prof told us.  Anyway, everyone in the damn 
world uses a different standard.  I worked at General Instrument, we 
designed cable set-top boxes, we had many engineers working kinks out of 
international variants with oh so slightly different variations on NTSC, 
PAL, SECAM...  Personally can't wait for digital.

Casey M

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 98 07:10:46 -0800
Subject: RE: Another twist to my dilema

>Keep me informed what you do, when I get my '60 down I'm probably going to 
>have to overhaul her, and I was worried about the normally
> replaced bits marked NLA in the catalogs.
;
I solved the problem by getting a series III engine to replace the old 
one.

These days I would probably go with one of the stonger 2.5L engines.  
Parts for the 
series III engine are already becoming harder to find.  Luckally 2.5L 
heads fit older engines.

Of course now if you are building a concorse Land Rover you need to 
retain the original engine & just hunt for parts.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:07:36 EST
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Have to agree with various posters.  Was mildly surprised when I went to do my
first rewiring job in Germany.  Thought the wires were greatly undersized
until I started thinking about voltage/resistance.  Also agree with the 50/60
hertz issue.  I grew up with 60 cycles, but think 50 makes a lot more sense
for a lot of reasons.  Won't go into the "getting bit" issue of being shocked,
but would like to pass on an old electrician's trick.  When you first approach
any wire (whether you know you have turned off the current or not), touch the
wire with the BACK of your fingers or hand.  If the wire is hot, your muscles
will contract pulling your arm/hand away from the wire, and if you do get
burned, supposedly there will be less tendon/nerve damage on the back of the
hand than on the touching surfaces of the fingers and palm.

FWIW.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:38:10 +0100
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

The back of the hand trick is an old farmers trick - for testing
electric fences. Works OK.

Usual disclaimers (don't try this at home folks) :-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
"Native Experience" - production unit in Alaska USA
telephone			     (907) 230 0359
e-mail				channel6@alaska.net
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:43:28 -0500
Subject: Heat treating

With this thread going on heat treating axles for durability, has anyone
gone the other way?  I mean *cold* treating?  Saw this advertisment a while
back about some company that would cold soak crankshafts and all other
manner of highly-stressed metals to reduce or eliminate metal fatigue.
They were working with temperatures of -200F or lower, half way to absolute
zero.  Made all kinds of extravagant claims about their parts being used by
NASCAR teams and such, backed up with some metalurgical research on
altering the micro-crystaline structure of the metal...and, of course, lots
of testemonials from satisfied users.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:43:30 -0500
Subject: breaking up

David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com> wrote:

>I think I read somewhere that the LR differential was carried over from
>a pre-war Rover car. I suspect the "shear pin" theory was put forth by
>someone who wanted to turn a design defect into a "feature".

Ummm, wasn't that Bill Gates?  "Hey, that's not a bug, that's a *feature*."

> I've never heard of designing a "shear pin" into a drivetrain.

Met some bloke somewhere (can't remember where) who would machine a groove
in the axle just inboard of the outer splines to a dimension ever so
slightly smaller than the inside splines (where the things usually
fracture).  That way, when the alxle would break, he could yank it out with
channel locks and be on his way in under five minutes.  

The only other suggestion I have is to scratch a line longitudinally down
the shaft with the tang of a file.  That way, if you ever pull the axle in
the future and the line ain't straight, you know trouble is around the
bend....  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:43:32 -0500
Subject: losing the manual

Ron Beckett <hillman@bigpond.com> wrote:

>I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
>something that is rare in the USA?

Yup...read about a car jacking in Chicago a while back.  The thief pulled
the driver out at gun point.  The moron jumped in and attempted to drive
away.  The owner described the grunching and grinding noises...and
recovered his car two blocks away when the jacker fled on foot.  Makes that
South African flame-thrower anti-jacking device seem like over-kill, eh?

As for the requisite Rover content, less than 5% of Discoverys sold in the
US were 5 speeds.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:00:00 +0100
Subject: Re: breaking up

wrote:

snip
>The only other suggestion I have is to scratch a line longitudinally
down
>the shaft with the tang of a file.  That way, if you ever pull the
axle in
>the future and the line ain't straight, you know trouble is around
the
>bend....  Cheers

I'd use a good paint stick rather than scratching the shaft (on the
off chance that scratching the shaft may harm it [admittedly
unlikely]). Similar to the racer trick of putting a dab of nail
polish on the nuts securing ring terminals. A quick peek will tell if
the securing nut is backing off. I've seen the same method used other
places where a bolt or nut coming off could be life threating.

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

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From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:01:35 -0800
Subject: Steady Bearing - was Koening Rear PTO Winch

The best solution is to go to a farm supplier and get a steady bearing
(complete) for the size shaft that you have.......they come in a huge range
of sizes and RPM capabilities.
I imagine, because the winch was fitted here, that it used a commonly
available steady bearing for the NA market

Duplicate the shaft to fit a bearing you buy - that should be really easy

Cheers
David
Full-time father of Alexander - 4 years old, this winter solstice
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home, an Ingrid 38, ketch rigged
wahooadv@earthlink.net

end of message

Turns out that the wording of the add confused my overworked little mind.
It's a front mounted Koening PTO winch.  The PTO used is the one on the rear
of the transmission.  Bought it this morning.  Only thing missing is the
drive shaft which should be easy enough to fabricate.

I do have the same problem, missing the drive shaft... This drive shaft has
a bearing in between, bolted to the oil sump.
My question is: what is the best way to fabricate such a shaft?

Joost Kramer
1980 SIII 88

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:47:20 -0700
Subject: re:240vac vs 120vac

Adrian wrote:

The back of the hand trick is an old farmers trick - for testing
electric fences. Works OK.

I thought the trick was pissing on the fence!!??   8-(

Art
1960 SII"Aardvark"

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:25:43 EST
Subject: Anybody else have trouble...

with the hole in the tunnel cover for the OD lever?  After cutting the
prescribed 2 inch hole, the pivot and shifter rubbed both top and bottom.  I
now have an irregular ellipse about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 inches which I'll cover
with a makeshift rubber and retaining plate.

Seems like there should be an easier template or some such thing for putting
the hole in there.

Nate

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:02:57 -0500
Subject: USA Remolds & 1 tire 4sale

For those of you running 235-85-16s on your Series vehicles, I need some
info and advice.

I have also found a great source for remolds at a great price, right here in
the USA, but more on that later.

Are you running tubes?  
For 10 ply tires (Load Range E rated), is there an actual benefit to running
tubes, or is sidewall stiffness an offsetting factor?  In other words, the
main advantage of tubes is the ability it gives one to air way down in
appropriate situations, such as in deep mud, sand and rock climbing, for
additional traction and to lessen the chances of losing or breaking a tire
bead.  Is the sidewall stiffness of 10 plys counter-productive to airing
down?
In more 'other' words, is it beneficial to add tubes to tubeless 10 ply
tires?

Please send me your experiences and opinions.  Thanks.

Now some info on the tires.  I personally have been searching for 16" tires
for some time now.  Best I could do new was about 90$ each, which were
Dayton Daytonas 235-85-R16s (Bridgestone private label), mounted and
balanced, out-the-door.  But yesterday I finally found some US made remolds.

235-85-R16 is the smallest size in a mud terrain tread pattern, which is
very similar to track edges.  215s are available in an all terrain.  Other
sizes also available. 
These are made in Harrisonburg, VA by a very large commercial truck tire
retreader/remolder.  
Typical tire warranty; replace for first 2/32nds, then pro-rated on
remaining tread.  They reportedly have very few problems with the remolds.
Tread separation seems to be the only potential problem and few cases are
reported.
They will ship nationwide, and yes you would be dealing directly with the
manufacturer...no middleman.  No state tax if shipped outside VA.  
Usual disclaimers are invoked.

235-85-16, 10 ply casings, completely remolded (bead to bead) are $49.95.
I bought 5 for my SIII.  These are the cat's meow; the ticket; and very
sexy, well, for tires anyway.  E-mail privately and I'll hook you up.
Please include "Re-mold Tires" in the subject header to facilitate replies.

P.S.  I now have one (1) brand new Dayton Daytona 215-85-R16 (also a track
edge clone) to sell, if you're interested.  Still has the stickers.  50$,
plus shipping.  Oh,uhhh....and no taxes.

John Tackley
Richmond, VA

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:02:07 -1000
Subject: Re: name for new RR

>New name for Land Rover : Solihul Motor Works...

Ya know, I can see them changing it to British Motor Works and then use
existing badging etc.

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:05:48 -1000
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

>The back of the hand trick is an old farmers trick - for testing
>electric fences. Works OK.
>Usual disclaimers (don't try this at home folks) :-)

Hmm, seem to remember another test that involved expelling bodily fluid on
the live wire through an extremely sensitive male reproductive organ.

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:49:21 EST
Subject: Re: Heat treating

Precision shooters have been doing the cold soak treatment for a couple of
years now.  Have seen documentation in a couple of publications where shot
groups were significantly reduced.  As to scribing lines, I know the steel
tempers are different between Series axles and torsion bars, and the stess is
applied diffrently to both, but have seen some SIGNIFICANT failures with lots
of collateral damage on the old M60 series tanks caused by nicking a torsion
bar during installation or by someone dropping a wrench, etc. on one during
removal or installation of a power pack.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:08:17 -1000
Subject: Re: Heat treating

>With this thread going on heat treating axles for durability, has anyone
>gone the other way?  I mean *cold* treating?

One of the posts yesterday was for a company that did this.  Onecryo I
think.  Uses cryogenics, web site listed some NASCAR vehicles as sastified
customers.
Pete

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From: "Elwyn" <Lists@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:08:34 -0000

who lro

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:16:19 -1000
Subject: Re: USA Remolds & 1 tire 4sale

[spamkill: [Mm]erchant input: %s]	 John, was just wondering if you 
checked with Merchant's HG in Mannassas,

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:33:43 -0400
Subject: Re: USA Remolds & 1 tire 4sale

I am glad you are happy with your 10 ply tires, personally I found 6 ply to be a
bit on the heavy and stiff side for an 88.
John and Muddy

"Tackley, John" wrote:

> For those of you running 235-85-16s on your Series vehicles, I need some
> info and advice.
> I have also found a great source for remolds at a great price, right here in
> the USA, but more on that later.
> Are you running tubes?
> For 10 ply tires (Load Range E rated), is there an actual benefit to running
> tubes, or is sidewall stiffness an offsetting factor?  In other words, the
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 47 lines)]
> plus shipping.  Oh,uhhh....and no taxes.
> John Tack

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:03:12 EST
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

In a message dated 98-12-16 02:45:32 EST, you write:

<< Higher voltage means less amps for same wattage - therefore lighter
 cables. Less copper.
 >>

...It also means less money spent on electric bills, as Edison charges by
Kilowatts used!

Been thinking about moving outta Kalifornia (that is - when I finally do), and
when I build that dream house, making sure it's wired 220.

Charles
P.S. My Norelco razor never worked better than it did in Amsterdam!

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:53:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Anybody else have trouble...

Nate asks:
<<with the hole in the tunnel cover for the OD lever?  After cutting the
prescribed 2 inch hole, the pivot and shifter rubbed both top and bottom.  I
now have an irregular ellipse about 3 1/2 by 2 1/2 inches which I'll cover
with a makeshift rubber and retaining plate>>

Well, my PO did apparently. Missed by about 2.5", covered with aluminum
plate, redrilled. Whoops!

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: "John Baker" <daddyo@loxinfo.co.th>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:16:17 +0700
Subject: Engine Pre-heaters

I lived in Minnesota for a long time, and about 15 years ago I remember
that there were propane block (or oil pan) heaters available. These were
popular with pilots, as they often had to park their cars for several days
at a time outside, far from any electrical outlet. Also, pilots were able
to afford them, as they were not cheap. I am sure they must still be
available somewhere. 

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:02:59 EST
Subject: Re: 240vac vs 120vac

Don't think you'd want to do that on some of the fences the hog farmers I know
use.  They use regular two strand barbed wire to surround the pen.  One end of
the wire is spliced to a pig tail lamp socket.  The other end of the wire and
loose wire on the socket are spliced to a 110V plug.  Plug in the wall socket.
Hogs forget from time to time and try to root under the wire.  Gets their
attention a lot quicker than a standard electric fence charger.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:38:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 240vac vs 120vac

Re: Pigtail lamp socket fence charger:

Owwwwww.....110 VAC with a lightbulb dropping resistor will SURELY get your
attention.

Hopefully, they used a BIG lamp - otherwise the smell of burnt pork chops would
get intense.

                    aj"ow"r

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:50:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:40:32 +1100
Subject: Stick 'em Up

>I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
something that is rare in the USA?

It's getting rarer all the time.  Not so much because no one in the US knows or 
can learn how to operate it, but because the manufacturers, particularly those 
outside the US, believe that manual transmissions won't sell in the US.  As a 
result, there seems to be a belief, perhaps accurately founded in market 
research, that a vehicle won't sell in the US unless it has air conditioning, 
cup holders, and an automatic transmission.

The more upmarket the vehicle, the less likely it is to have a manual 
transmission.  For example, for a lot of reasons I wanted to obtain a BMW 
6-Series to use 
for my commute to work.  This was a vehicle that was in production only for 
about ten or twelve years, from the late 1970s to 1989.  In the earlier 
versions, 
the 630csi and  633csi, 5-speed manual transmissions are quite common, given 
that this fairly large and heavy car was classed a "sport" coupe by the 
manufacturer.  But as the 633 gave way to the 635, which in turn got fancier 
and fancier, manual transmissions became increasingly scarce.  In the US, it's 
very difficult to find a late model 635csi with a manual.  By the end of their 
production run, the 635csi cost $60,000 and was delivered in the US almost 
exclusively with the automatic.  The M6, of course, had a manual transmission.  
As I do not care for automatic transmissions, I was fortunate to find a very 
low mileage 1982 633csi with a five-speed.

I had no choice with the Range Rover we bought in 1991.  Correctly analyzing 
their primary market (which did not include me), Range Rover North America, now 
Land Rover North America, certified for US import the top of the line Range 
Rover with the automatic.  Even though the Range Rover was available at the 
time 
with a 5-speed manual transmission, it was never sent to the US.  Both my wife 
and I would have preferred the manual transmission, but it was not an option 
here because the manual Range Rover was never run through the required 
government emissions and safety tests.

You will find that most older drivers want an automatic, and since most of the 
wealthier Americans tend to be older, most of the expensive vehicles available 
in this country tend to be automatics almost exclusively.  One exception is the 
Discovery, which was initially, and perhaps still is, available in the US with 
either a manual or an automatic.  I don't know the sales figures, but given the 
cost of the US-spec Discovery and the purposes for which most people buy it, I 
would be willing to bet that the vast majority of Discoveries sold in this 
country have been automatics.

Another example is the US-spec Defender.  When it was originally introduced in 
this country, it came with the unfortunately trouble-prone 5-speed manual 
transmission.  The problems were fixed, but the last batch of US-spec Defenders 
were equipped with the same ZF automatic as used in the Discovery and Range 
Rover.  I can only assume this was done because LRNA realized that the people 
who were buying most of the incredibly overpriced US-spec Defenders wanted 
automatics because that's what their BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus, and Infinities were 
equipped with.  The rest of the world, which rightly views the Defender as 
something to haul sheep in, buys manual transmissions.  I don't even know that 
the automatic Defender was even available outside the US other than a few 
special order vehicles the factory might have worked up.

I don't thing the automatic craze is limited to the US, however.  I doubt very 
many Jaguars, Rolls Royce/Bentleys, or top-of-the-line Rovers leave the factory 
with a manual transmission.  I think, but I may be way wrong, that even that 
most venerable institution, the London taxi, is equipped these days with an 
automatic.  Most people find automatics more pleasant to drive in urban and 
suburban stop and go traffic.  In the case of pickups and SUVs, automatics also 
reduce the risk of vehicle damage (and warranty claims) if the vehicle is used 
for towing, as it's impossible for an unskilled driver to burn out the clutch.

The ZF transmission used in the Range Rover is a very good, reliable unit, and 
it's not bad off-pavement.  I've used it on some pretty rough logging and 
mining 
roads here and in British Columbia, and have found that it does an excellent 
job.  But I still prefer the manual transmission in my Series III, partly 
because 
I've been driving that vehicle on bad roads for 25 years so I know what to 
expect, and partly because I believe I have a little more control with a 
manual, 
even though it gives you more opportunities to get into trouble.

In light of my statement relating age to transmission types, can any of the UK 
participants in this group tell me if the Reliant Robin has an automatic or a 
manual transmission?

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:10:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Strong 10 spline axles!

Hi Braman -

Could you tell us what 4330 and 1050 are?

>... due to the flatness of the S-N(load versus cycles to failure) curve,
>a 25% strength improvement may give a significant improvement in the
>life of the part.
EH?  What is an S-N curve?

>The other issue is the machining. Peter mentioned that you could do it
>with a vertical mill and an index head with the right cutter. This is
>true, but it would be much better to use a horizontal mill so that he
>radius on the end of the splines is oriented to avoid stress
>concentrations.
A horizontal mill being a mill where the cutter rotational axis is parallel
with the horizon - vs the typical bridgeport type mill?  Or do you mean
using the saw blade type cutter to cut along between the splines?  Or does
it work both ways?
The saw blade type cutter would, I think, be safer - stronger - if you were
using an end mill, the radius would have to be pretty small to cut a groove
- whereas the saw type (is there a proper term for this?) can be narrow w/o
being as weak.

>Ask if the shop will use a CNC machine or cut the splines by hand.
What is a CNC machine?

>They  might also broach them, which would be a lot stronger but more
>expensive.
What is broaching?

>...stress risers could be corrected and/or thickness added.
What is a stress riser?

> I very much doubt that rover axles are purposely designed as a
>"shear pin" to break before anything else. Does anyone have any basis
>for this asumption other than teh fact that they break a lot?
I guess they break first under drive line stress - which would imply they
are the weakest link.  They are also really easy to replace (rear, anyway).
This does not in and of itself indicate they were made weak for this purpose.
In the language of evolutionary biology - we might call this an ex-aptation.
Meaning; current function can not indicate "initial" function - current
function has replaced "initial" function.  My oil leaks are a wonderfull
built-in undercoating system.
Whether the British initially designed them into the system or they have
been ex-apted for better purposes - we can only guess.

Cheers - Peter

Braman - are you still in Ithaca?  How's your Rover?  Drop me an email some
time.
Maybe you want to help me pull my engine, tranny, diffs, bulkhead from my
parts car?
Beer provided & Offer extended to others interested.  Cortland, NY

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:24:37 +0100
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Ah - but a 100 watt lightbulb uses 100 watts irrespective of whether its
a 100 watt 120 volt or 100 watt 240 volt - and it gives the same light.
-- 

Adrian Redmond

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From: David <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:17:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

>I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
>something that is rare in the USA?
>Regards,
>Ron

>Not so rare as you'd think - many more men than women can, as most men
>owned a
>ajr

I understand the HUMMER was devloped with an automatic tranny because it
was getting too expensive to teach new recruits how to drive a standard.

This may be an urban legend (although I think not) but HUMMERS _do_ have
automatic transmissions.

Cheers

David Russell
Member: OVLR, R.O.V.E.R.S. and the MostlyMetro group
1997 Discovey SD 5-speed
1969 SIIA "Bugeye" 88" SW Petrol, green; in progress
1965+/- SIIA 109" P/U Diesel
1977 Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser (sort of)
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r

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From: David <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:44:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

When I took a one-day driving class at a driving school, the youngest
member of the class did _not_ know how to drive a standard. The cars
(Neons, Ram P/U's, and Vipers) were all sticks. The driving was such that a
lot of shifting was not needed--except for the threshold braking exercise.

This involved getting a Dodge Neon up to 30-35MPH in third gear ASAP and
then hitting the brakes upon crossing a line. The objective was to stop in
as short a distance as possible w/out locking up.

I was paired with this unfortunate soul who, in addition to not being able
to drive a stick, was a bit annoying. Well, he'd rev the engine up and:
try to engage first w/out using clutch
use clutch and then release suddenly
use clutch and then stall.

Once moving, he had to look at the shifter instead of where we were going
as well as keep the revs up throughout the exercise.

I fully appreciated the driving school's use of Dodge Neons after this
exercise--the vehicles probably barely lasted a summer.

The Vipers, that's another story ;-)

Cheers

David Russell
Member: OVLR, R.O.V.E.R.S. and the MostlyMetro group
1997 Discovey SD 5-speed
1969 SIIA "Bugeye" 88" SW Petrol, green; in progress
1965+/- SIIA 109" P/U Diesel
1977 Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser (sort of)
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r

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From: David <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:51:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Guinness for what its worth

I pulled this from my archives but,as you can see, I _do not_ deserve credit
----------

For the ale-afficionados on the list, I have decided  to forward this
joke which I received today...

THE BEST BEER

After the Great Britain Beer Festival, in London, all the brewery
presidents decided to go out for a beer.  The guy from Corona sits
down and says, "Hey Senor, I would like the world's best beer, a
Corona."

The bartender dusts off a bottle from the shelf and gives it to him.

The guy from Budweiser says, "I'd like the best beer in the world,
give me 'The King Of Beers', a Budweiser."

The bartender gives him one.

The guy from Coors says, "I'd like the only beer made with Rocky
Mountain spring water, give me a Coors."

He gets it.

The guy from Guinness sits down and says, "Give me a Coke."

The bartender is a little taken aback, but gives him what he ordered.

The other brewery presidents look over at him and ask "Why aren't you
drinking a Guinness?" and the Guinness president replies, "Well, I
figured if you guys aren't drinking beer, neither would I."

--
Adrian Redmond

David Russell
Member: OVLR, R.O.V.E.R.S. and the MostlyMetro group
1997 Discovey SD 5-speed
1969 SIIA "Bugeye" 88" SW Petrol, green; in progress
1965+/- SIIA 109" P/U Diesel
1977 Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser (sort of)
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:04:01 -0700
Subject: Expensive 10 spline axles

Well my $490 price shot up to $800 when they saw the axles. I guess it
has to do with the step in the splines where they meet the hub. So for
the time being, I bought a regular set of axles. This second shop I went
to is Mark Williams Enterprises. I'm sure any of you racers out there
have heard of them. For those interested, they were going to make them
out of 300M steel, supposidly the strongest available. The splines would
be hobbed, which uses a worm gear shaped cutter and rotates the piece
being cut to create the splines, as opposed to ground, and the final
hardness would be 50 Rockwell. I must admit that this shop makes a lot
of neat looking stuff. Too bad none of it is for Rovers though.
	On the way back I met the first unfriendly series owner I have ever
seen. He was driving a limestone 88 with Michigan plates. I passed him
and honked and waved... no response. I stopped next to him at a light
and he didn't even look over. He looked like a college kid. Maybe it was
his roommates. I hope series owners aren't starting to get as stuck up
as some of the RR and Disco crowd. I need a beer, Guinness please!
	So are there any stock 24 spline axles that will fit a series diff with
24 spline hubs and spiders? I may just get a LSD (not the drug) and hope
that keeps breakage to a minimum.
Enough rambling for now.

Jim Hall 
Elephant Chaser

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:10:17 +0100
Subject: Parts list - SIII 109 axle overhauls

High folks

I have just spent the evening planning my coming rebuild of the 109"
front and back axles, brake drums, swivel balls and differentials.

I have slavishly listed all parts, mostly in the order which they appear
in the LR spares manual, giving the LR part numbers.

As this takes a month and a weekend of an evenings work, the thought
occurred to me that someone else on the list might be glad for a copy.

So if there's anyone out there who needs this, it's available on e-mail
as a MS Excel (W95/98) attatchment.

Just drop me a line and I'll send a copy. It's formatted for budgetting
too! Parts which have to be checked, but not necessarily changed - like
the expensive bearings - are coloured red.

Adrian Redmond

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From: andy Smith <andy@bobstar.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:00:53 +0000
Subject: New IRC chat room

Friends,
        Last week I set up an Internet Relay Chat room more commonly
known as IRC. I Have set this up because I thought it might be a good
idea. If you do not like the idea fair enough but if you like the idea
read on macduff.
Firstly get yourself an IRC client I personally use mIRC which is
available at http://.www.mirc.co.uk and is shareware which is 
 brilliant program. 
Secondly once you have your Irc client run it and select a DAL.NET
server do not use the UK one as it has been down for a couple of months.
Once you have connected type in the JOIN box #uk_rover and it should
take you too the chat room. 
I am usually there after 10.30 pm GMT in the week and at the weekends
too. All you in foreign climes please feel free to use it, it is not uk
specific its just how I have named it. 

Any further problems visit http://www.Dal.net it is very helpful and if
you are not running windows there is a list of irc clients for other
platforms.

Also if you have any further problems visit my website at 
   http://.www.bobstar.demon.co.uk.index.html
or mail me of the list at 
   andy@bobstar.demon.co.uk

I am not trying to replace the lists (Heaven Forbid the Wrath of Bill)
I just thought it might be a good idea.

-- 
andy Smith
1965 s2a V8 swb ccvt/road
1971 s2a 2.25P swb road
Tamworth Staffs

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From: "bill.di" <bill.di@cwix.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:39:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wet Seals

I've been having trouble getting messages to the list.  Hope this one makes it 
...

Finally got to investigating my low compression numbers, after all the good 
advice I received last July from Paul Quin, Alan Richer, D & C Walker, etc..

The numbers back then were:  (1) 113, (2) 113, (3) 117, and (4) 116 psi (8:1 
engine hot, carb blocked open, primary wires disconnected).   Today they are 
within 6 psi of these.  Squirted about 25 ml's of 20W-50 oil in each cylinder, 
rotated a few times and then got  167, 158, 157, and 158 (same test conditions 
as before except the 25 ml's).   These "wet" numbers likely finger the cylinder 
rings/bores.  Ran out of time before I could pressurize the cylinders to listen 
for leaks out the tailpipe, but  I gather that the "wet" numbers may tell me I 
should check the valve adjustments.

Thanks again!

Bill in Albuquerque

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:42:43 -0700
Subject: realtime help-diff

Does anyone know what the bearing retaining cap bolts in the diff are
supposed to be torqued to?
Jim Hall

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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:31:48 EST
Subject:  Re: name for new RR

Now I hear that since Rover have lost so much money, BMW is talking to VW.
Hmmm
Farfengnugenlanders, NE1?
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS
LROA #1095
SoLaRoS #23
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
(770)345-3516 

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:20:57 -0700
Subject: Re: realtime help-diff

Too late now. They are at 60Ft Lbs. Hope it is close enough

jimfoo@uswest.net wrote:

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:49:32 -0500
Subject: Re: realtime help-diff

60 Lb ft. and then wire together including the serated nut retainer.

jimfoo@uswest.net wrote:

> Does anyone know what the bearing retaining cap bolts in the diff are
> supposed to be torqued to?

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:51:12 -0800
Subject: RE: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

The average wall socket here in NA is protected by a 15 amp circuit breaker,
giving a maximum of around 1.8 kW power at 120vac before the breaker trips.

Out of curiosity, what do you get from the wall plugs of Europe?

Paul in Victoria.

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:53:22 -0800
Subject: Timing chain tensioner behavior...

Hello  All,

I am piddling around with my 1960 109 and its 2.25l petrol engine.

The major problem is crap compression in cylinders 2, 3, 4 - like 30psi.
#1 is about 120 psi
Valve clearances and ignition timing seem to be okay - I just checked.

I have the timing cover off right now and the chain and gears look okay.
Not that I am any expert on what okay should look like.  The rollers on the
chain are shiny and there isn't very much side to side play.  

The thing that I find odd is when I crank with the starting handle the old
style chain tensioner piston reciprocates and causes the chain to "flick"
Is this normal?  If so what is the purpose?  I guess I was expecting a
constant chain tensioning force.

I am hoping that something in the timing chain assembly is causing my low
compression instead of a blown head gasket or burnt valves but someone
pointed out that if it was a timing problem, this should affect all 4
cylinders.

Opinions?

John

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:03:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Heat treating

Some years ago one of the local guys had a shaft analysed by his father who was
an engineer in the aircraft industry. The opinion came back that the material,
the design, and the Rockwell hardness were acceptable but that the machining
left a great deal to be desired. The quality of the spline machining left cuts
and scratches that would propagate into cracks. The suggestion was to shot peen
the axles. Never did get round to it and I`ve got a goodly collection of stubs
that some day I shall weld into a sculpture.

A. P. "Sandy" Grice wrote:

> With this thread going on heat treating axles for durability, has anyone
> gone the other way?  I mean *cold* treating?  Saw this advertisment a while
> back about some company that would cold soak crankshafts and all other
> manner of highly-stressed metals to reduce or eliminate metal fatigue.
> They were working with temperatures of -200F or lower, half way to absolute
> zero.  Made all kinds of extravagant claims about their parts being used by
> NASCAR teams and such, backed up with some metalurgical research on
> altering the micro-crystaline structure of the metal...and, of course, lots
> of testemonials from satisfied users.  Cheers

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:18:15 -0000
Subject: Re: name for new RR

its a colour other than white, but darker than rose, probably, sport.
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:53:00 -0000
Subject: Re: Anybody else have trouble...

with the tolerances used in building Land Rovers, fitting replacement parts
is something of a hit and miss effort.
I think you got off lightly
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:22:38 -0000
Subject: Re: breaking up

the groove machined in is a comp safari trick in the UK. You just know
they're gonna break, so make sure they break in a good place
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:27:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Timing chain tensioner behavior...

Hi. John.  Pinch the timing chain between your fingers below the camshaft gear
so that the "slack" is taken up from around the big gear. Now see if you can
lift the chain away from the gear  teeth at the top. If you can it`s toast.
Check if the gear teeth have lost the concentric ellipse and are "hooked". In
other words they are no longer concentric but worn on one side.I think a shot
of oil down the plug holes is neccessary, together with a further compression
check.

John wrote:

> Hello  All,
> I am piddling around with my 1960 109 and its 2.25l petrol engine.
> The major problem is crap compression in cylinders 2, 3, 4 - like 30psi.
> #1 is about 120 psi
> Valve clearances and ignition timing seem to be okay - I just checked.
> I have the timing cover off right now and the chain and gears look okay.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 26 lines)]
> pointed out that if it was a timing problem, this should affect all 4
> cylinders.

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:24:22 -0700
Subject: Re: realtime help-diff

Damn what a good guess. We don't need no stinking manuals.

d.h.lowe wrote:
> 60 Lb ft. and then wire together including the serated nut retainer.

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From: "Stephen C. West-Fisher" <westfish@gte.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:12:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Another twist to my dilema

On 16-Dec-98 TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> I solved the problem by getting a series III engine to replace the old 
> one.
> These days I would probably go with one of the stonger 2.5L engines.  
> Parts for the 
> series III engine are already becoming harder to find.  Luckally 2.5L 
> heads fit older engines.
> Of course now if you are building a concorse Land Rover you need to 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> Of course now if you are building a concorse Land Rover you need to 
> retain the original engine & just hunt for parts.

Thought you were looking for something from across the other pond :-)

Not a show piece, but as origional as I can keep her. I recall someone from OZ
said that some of the distributers (sorry about all this spelling, had to
rebuild the machine and forget to install ispell) has parts available for II
engines. If that doesn't work out, I'll check with some of the restoration
shops around here and see what they do for bearings that are NLA -- I bet there
are folks who will make them up for you.

Steve West-Fisher
westfish@gte.net

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From: Kathleen Hollington <kholling@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:07:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Thanks! & Cold-starting rovers

Sincere thanks to Adrian for the detailes answer on my question
about how to check roller bearings for wear!  I've filed that one
away in my database of Land Rover tips.
Thanks also to C.Marin for his detailed and well-thought out
messages and advice to the list.  Many of his go into my
database as well.
It's amazing: the collected wisdom on this list could produce a better
Land Rover Maintenance manual than anything in print!

About the thread on cold-starting rovers, and block heaters etc., it
reminds me of stories my Dad used to tell us about his many years
in the Yukon and Northwest Territories, as a wandering miner in
the late 40's and 50's.  He usually drove a Jeep (unless it may
have been a Landie, but he always called it a Jeep), and winters
were VERY cold up there.  He had a picture of a thermometer showing
either -60F or -80F (I forget which) - he had taken the picture by
opening the shutter of his 35mm camera inside the cabin, under his coat,
and then flashing open the coat in front of the thermometer, with the
shutter still open (he said that the cold would have frozen the shutter
otherwise).  Anyways, he used to get his Jeep started on those bitter
cold mornings by the following way:
  1. he'd store the battery in the cabin overnight
  2. he'd put some kerosene (?) in the engine oil to keep it more fluid
  3. early in the morning, he'd take out the dust pan from the wood
stove, full of glowing coals, and place that in the snow under the
engine of the Jeep.
  4. after 15-20 minutes, he'd take the battery out and start it.
The good old days, eh? <smile>
Thanks again to Adrian, C.Marin and all the others!
Regards,
	--Robert
-- 
Robert St-Louis -- OTTAWA/CANADA -- '68 IIA SWB LR -- 
  kholling@nrn1.nrcan.gc.ca.NOSPAM (remove NOSPAM when replying)

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:24:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

The number of manual transmission vehicles continues to decline in the
US, and overall I think it is less than 10%. Japan went from something
like 90% manuals to 10% manuals in less than ten years. In Europe
automatics are a small percentage, but continue to grow, particularly in
more expensive vehicles.

Manual transmissions have been dropped from many car and truck models
because annual production was down to a few thousand per year. Added
costs for providing a manual include providing accomodations for the
clutch pedal, emissions development and test, added complexity in the
assembly plant for the numerous unique parts, and providing service
parts. Emission limits are harder to meet with manuals due to the engine
transients during shifting. The fuel economy advantage of a manual has
shrunk with 4 speed automatics, lock-up torque converters, and
electronic controls.

Typically the cost to the vehicle manufactuer of a manual transmission
is the same as or more than an automatic. This is partially due to the
relative production volumes, but also due to the clutch system, and the
precision machining required for the synchros. The difference in price
to the customer is due to tradition and what the market will bear.

Manuals are more fun, as long as you're not stuck in a traffic jam.

> I think
> the reason of convinience and easyness is what made automatic catch on
> big
> here, even if it is a french invention (Citroen).

GM generally claims credit for the automatic transmission in automobiles
with the introduction in Oldsmobiles in 1940. When did Citroen introduce
automatics? Of course LR only introduced automatics in Series/Defenders
in '97 in the last year of LRNA D90s.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:19:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Thanks! & Cold-starting rovers

Kathleen Hollington wrote:
> It's amazing: the collected wisdom on this list could produce a better
> Land Rover Maintenance manual than anything in print!
>Regards,
>        --Robert

Ah yes, 'cept a heck of a lot of the advice might be contradictory :-)

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:11:56 EST
Subject: Re: Thanks! & Cold-starting rovers

In a message dated 12/16/98 8:36:35 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
paul@adventures.co.za writes:

<< Ah yes, 'cept a heck of a lot of the advice might be contradictory :-) >>

Contradictory?  I disagree....  :-)

(sorry... couldn't resist!)

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:36:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Thanks! & Cold-starting rovers

>Anyways, he used to get his Jeep started on those bitter
>cold mornings by the following way:
>  1. he'd store the battery in the cabin overnight
>  2. he'd put some kerosene (?) in the engine oil to keep it more fluid
>  3. early in the morning, he'd take out the dust pan from the wood
>stove, full of glowing coals, and place that in the snow under the
>engine of the Jeep.
>  4. after 15-20 minutes, he'd take the battery out and start it.
>The good old days, eh? <smile>

Do ya'll know about getting one vehicle started, and using its exaust to
warm the others up - by pumping it backwards through the cold vehicles
exaust and out its loosened plugs?  Rgrds - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:18:20 +0200
Subject: Re: Thanks! & Cold-starting rovers

"Peter M. Kaskan" wrote:
> Do ya'll know about getting one vehicle started, and using its exaust to
> warm the others up - by pumping it backwards through the cold vehicles
> exaust and out its loosened plugs?  Rgrds - Peter

Would this be buddy-breathing for L-R's or would it be considered
artificial respiration?  
Regards

Paul (Koff Koff) Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: rbarney@galenaalaska.org (Regena Barney)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:58:27 -0900
Subject: land rovers

in alaska all we see is them broke down can't take the cold  any
suggestions except get a real 4x4 jeff barney

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From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:40:46 -0500
Subject: US Series hazard switch wiring?

  Can anyone give me the pinout designations for the hazard light switch as
found on late SIIAs and SIIIs (I'm assuming they're the same)? The switch
has a curved or bent looking toggle and has six pins on the rear which are
numbered... Thanks!

Jeff Goldman
Boston, MA
http://www.gis.net/~roverboy

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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:04:02 EST
Subject: Manual Trannies

Ron Beckett *HAD* to ask the question.  "Is the ability to drive a manual
shift car something that is rare in the USA?"

This ability appears to be getting rare in the US in recent years.  Fewer
women than men know how, and fewer youngsters than us old farts.  Many US
built cars are not even available with a manual transmission.  Automatics, I'm
told, are easier to learn to use, and in recent years, they have become more
reliable and more efficient.

I knew my wife was a keeper when, with very few hints, she got in my RHD Land
Rover and drove off without any trouble.  Raised on farms and ranches in
Kansas, her  standard questions were (and still are):

Where is reverse?
How do you start it?
Does it do anything wierd?

No Worries Mate!

Paul Donohue
1965 RHD Land Rover 109
Denver

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:43:45 +0100
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

In the UK the standard socket is 13A which allows 2990 watts load at 230
volts. Here in Denmark the standard is 10A - which can be fused at 10 or
16 amperes, giving 2300 watts or 3680 watts respectivly. In industrial
locations we have a standard European heavy duty socket range, covering
16A and 32A single phase (230 volts) and 16, 32, 64 amperes three-phase
(380 volts).

Until recently, most of Europe was 220 volts, with the uK at 240 or in
some places 250 volts. Now most of Europe is standardised at 230 volts.
Everywhere is 50 Hz.

Of course for those of us living in the country, anything from 205 - 250
is to be expected, depending on local loads, line loss, temperature etc.

Distribution economics isn't really an issue in the 120 / 230 volt
debate, as both the US and Europe handle distribution between power
facilities and transformer stations at higher voltages - 132, 110 50 or
10 Kvolts being typical. Some long distance transmission lines also work
at higher frequencies, but I don't know the data on this.

What I do know, is that the current trend for consumer electronics
manufacturers to supply portable equipment with external power supplies
means that it is easy to move from one country to another. better still
are the wide range switch mode power supplies seen on portable computers
which accept anything from 100 - 250 volts.

My Rover is still running 12 volts - well anything between 11.5 and 13.8
on a good day. :-)

Adrian Redmond

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Schot" <booker@worldonline.nl>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:03:37 +0100
Subject: raised air intakes
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Could anyone please tell me how to fit an raised air intake on my S2a. =
Could it be done without any major modifications? What are the other =
modifications for wading?
Happy Rovering

Maarten Schot
booker@worldonline.nl

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