Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: Mikko Kalevi Lehmusto <mlehmust@hit.fi>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:36:20 +0200
Subject: engine pre-heaters

Adrian was asking about engine heaters for cold conditions. Here in
Finland the most usual setup is a block heater, which is often accompanied
by an interior heater. Many people (like me) have a clock-switch, which
turns the heaters on about 1/2 - 2 hours before starting, depending on
weather. If I know that I'm leaving to school at 07.00, and the
temperature is let's say -20C, I'll just set the clock at 05 am.

All the other gadgets you mentioned are virtually unknown here. Even
people in northern Finland, where temps can be around -35C seem to make it
with just a block heater.

When I still had my previous Landy I played with the idea of fitting a
regular block-heater resistor to the sump, to heat the oil. The resistors'
power ratings are usually 500-550 W. It seemed completely possible, one
would just have to make some kind of an adaptor, and weld it to a hole
made to the sump.

That setup would probably have helped my winter start-ups, which I'd
rather forget... But in that wehicle I didn't have any kind of block
heater fitted, and (I was in high school back then) whet it was really
cold, I went for a ride during the lunch-break to keep the engine warm
enough to get home in the evening :).

Mikko Lehmusto
student, Mech. Engineering
FINLAND

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:59:24 -0400
Subject: Re: well, Sid's alternating again

Joseph Broach wrote: When I finally got it off, I saw why. The

> little ceramic insulator block that holds the prongs had cracked and was
> loose in the housing. That would explain my charge light mysteries and the
> alt.'s untimely death.

Just for your information, that porcelain insulator is in fact the voltage
regulator.
These are cheap and easy to replace if you have the facilities like a work
bench but since your parking lot isn't particularly well equipped you did the
wise thing .
John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:59:32 EST
Subject: Re: starting heaters

Adrian,

When I was stationed in Germany, we had transformers that converted the 220/50
to 110/50 so we could use various North American appliances, etc.  Couldn't
use anything that was 50/60 hertz sensitive.  Ran a refrigerator off one for
the three years I was there with no problems.  We were able to pick them up at
the thrift (bargain) store on post, but should be available through electrical
suppliers.  

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:00:55 -0500
Subject: Re: engine pre-heaters

There's a simple way to pre-heat the oil in your sunp - drain it out and take it
with you when you park the vehicle, then add it back in when you go to
leave...8*)

Adrian, quite seriously, if you want to use the 120-volt devices an
autotransformer to drop them to that voltage might be the easiest thing. My
travel unit is good for 1500 watts continuous duty (which will easily handle a
[spamkill: @[0-9][0-9]* input: %s]	 block heater @500 watts) and cost me a 
little over $20.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:13:37 -0400
Subject: Re: starting heaters

Adrian Redmond wrote:

> On my Alaska trip I discovered that US vehicles in the Arctic have a
> wealthof starting aids - besides the block/core heater which we know
> about here in denmark, they have dipstick heaters, oil pan heaters,
> gearbox heaters, battery heater pads and jackets, and even internal
> heaters. Most trucks have at least three of these fitted, some with the
> addition of a battery charger which is put on when parking overnight in
> sub-zero temperatures. I tried a vehicle with this rig, the first nigfht
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 21 lines)]
> itself?)
> Does anyone know of sources for 220 volt engine heaters like the above?

When temperatures are very low (below 0 F ) your battery capacity is less
than half
of the same battery at 70 F so just when your poor old cold engine needs
more grunt to get it started is has much less available.
After a block heater the next most useful aid in cold starting is the
battery heater.
If you can't find one of the correct voltage you might try one of those
heating pads that you use for your bad back and sore muscles. This probably
the intended use for these heaters as it will prevent a sore back from
carrying heavy batteries into the house to be warmed.
John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:24:47 EST
Subject: Re: Starter Turns, No Fire

In a message dated 12/14/98 10:51:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chrisste@clark.net writes:

> cleaned it up, and presto...it now turns the engine. One problem: apparently
>  there's no spark so obviously the thing won't fire. We tried the plug-to-
> block
>  test: no spark. So now we suspect the coil. How can we check the coil and 
> are
>  there any more likely suspects?

Chris,

A couple things to check:

1.  Check to make sure the low tension lead will conduct electricity.

2.  Take off the dizzy cap and see if there's spark across the points.  If not
then either the LT is bad or the points are grounded.  

3.  If there's a spark across the points, then try replacing the HT lead.

4. Lastly, if all this still has no spark, then it's the coil

Nate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 08:27:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Barman's christmas box 

>Maybe we should pass the hat around, and see what cyber offerings we can 
>put together for our benefactor in the Yuletide season?

>Any ideas?

how about a yule log, soaked in single malt?

later
dave"or 90 wt."b

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 08:30:21 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: re babe magnets 

>.She then said ............".Yea., it makes me hot" they then drove off, 

she wasn't parked on the exhaust side, was she?

later
daveb

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: smitty1@altavista.net
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:06:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: block heaters

Adrian, 
If you want to go that route, let me know. They still have plent of 
transformers here in Germany. You can get them second hand for about $20 - $100 
depending 
on the size(watts, 500, 1000, 1500, 2000) you want. The thing most people 
forget with transformers is that as long as they are plugged in, most are still 
drawing power.
Of course you could always do the low tech alternative they used to use when I 
was a child. Take a heating blanket, put it in an over sized trash bag, seal it 
against moisture, throw it under the hood (bonnet) before you go to bed.  Not 
the most sophisticated solution, but it used to work for my parents.
Smitty

Adrian,

When I was stationed in Germany, we had transformers that converted the
220/50
to 110/50 so we could use various North American appliances, etc. 
Couldn't
use anything that was 50/60 hertz sensitive.  Ran a refrigerator off
one for
the three years I was there with no problems.  We were able to pick
them up at
the thrift (bargain) store on post, but should be available through
electrical
suppliers.  

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 09:12:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Starter Turns, No Fire 

> We tried the plug-to-block test: no spark. So now we suspect the coil. How can
>we check the coil and are there any more likely suspects?

well, I try to thikn, "what has been disturbed here?" perhaps (somehow) the 
starte is grounded but the engine block is not? did you put a sealant between 
the starter and block? is the starter ground strap connected? try runnig a 
length of battery cable to the block from the neg post (or pos but I'm pretty 
sure yours is ned earth). Seems unlikely something would go wrong if you had 
spark before. also try just pushing all the HT wires down onto their terminals,
and then try everyone else's advice...

later
dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Scheidt, David, NPG" <dscheidt@att.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:21:57 -0500
Subject: Lucas four wire voltage regulators

Jan Ben asked yesterday about the four wire voltage regulator that she had
in her alternator.  I have seen one of these in an alternator that came out
of a TR6.  It was replaced with a three wire one, because that was what was
lying about.  The four wire regulator has two sense leads, one of which
terminates inside the case, and the other goes where ever it goes.  I think
it is lucas planning for wiring failure, because when the external sense
fails the regulator is less likely to get fried. 

I think that you can still get the four wire one, if you want one.

David

Ps.  The vintage triumph people have a fairly substantial collection of
information on alternators, http://www.vtr.org .
-- 
David Scheidt, IMO Customer Care dscheidt@att.com
480 Red Hill Rd 1k217, Middletown NJ 07748
(v) +1 (732) 615-2888 (f) +1 (732) 615-2597

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@drexel.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:35:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Another Starter Problem

I have re-read the recent thread about the starter on my 72 SIII as I 
have my own problem.  My starter was intermitent for a few days, then 
refused to work at all.  
First it would spin but not turn the engine.
Next it stopped spinning and just made that clicking fluttering noise.
Finally it stopped all together, and wouldn't start via crank.
I thought ground problem (also my OR-lights relay stopped working, 
clicked but didn't connect).  I replaced the solenoid and cleaned up all 
the connections, replaced the battery earth to block cable.  Now it 
reliably makes the clicking but won't turn the engine, and it starts 
fine off the crank.

Should I pull the starter and clean it up (maybe get a rebuild kit from 
RN while it's out)?  Or keep chasing a ground problem?  The starter 
only has a hot lead, no ground strap (or obvious place to mount it), should 
it have one?  It seems to be grounded only through the mounting.

thanks,
Casey McMullen
'72 SIII 88

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:41:14 -0700
Subject: Visiting So. Cal!

Hey to those in So Cal,

I'll be visiting at the end of this week. Dec. 17th - Dec 22nd. in the
So Cal. area.
I have plans to go see Greg and Brandi at SG on Saturday. I'd love to
meet up with some of you on Sunday for a noon beer!

My folks live in Claremont in San Gabrial valley. They keep talking
about this wonderful pub in Orange or Santa Monica somewhere called the
Ship. Perhaps this might be a good place to see some Series people,
drink beer, and play with the heavy equipment!

My folks number is 909/626-2249
or return email to jwrover@colo-net.com

Hope to see someone!!

John Wood
Solihull Society President

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 07:04:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Packing Hub bearings.  How much grease is enough

>From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
>Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:39:52 -0600
>Subject: Packing Hub bearings.  How much grease is enough.
>>Well this stems back to my greasy front brakes.
>>I am pretty sure the stuff is coming from the hubs.  I plan to replace the
>oil seals (again, carefully, again).  I want to make sure that I do not
>unknowingly repeat some mistakes.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>>What is the correct way to pack front hubs with grease 
>>and how much grease is enough?
;
;> ;C. Marin Faure writes:
<<SNIP>>
;>According to the shop manual, the only time you need to 
;>grease hub bearings is when you're installing new ones,
;> or have had the old ones out to inspect and clean them. 
;> Putting some grease on ensures they will be lubricated
;>from the start, before the oil from the swivel balls (front)
;> or the differential (rear) has a chance to work through
;> and fill up the bearings.

I agree totally.  I once paid to have the rear axle assembly
of my '68 MGBGT rebuilt.  This included new wheel bearings.
The mechanic who did the job knew that the rear wheel bearings
were lubricated by the oil in the axle housing and put the 
bearings in dry.  It takes a few corners to slosh oil from the
diff out to the ends of the axles.  I immediately hopped on the 
freeway to drive home.  Both rear bearings seized before I could 
get the car home from the shop.

So anytime I have to remove oil fed wheel bearings I grease
them AND top up the 90 wt resavor that feeds the bearings.

But this doesn't answer the original question.

You do not need to stuff the whole hub cavity with grease,
but the bearings and races should be greased.  You want the 
caged bearings to have grease all the way around.  You can do 
this by turning the bearings as you apply grease.  I picked up
a bearing grease tool at my local auto parts store way back when.
It consists of two shallow cones each with a with threaded hole 
in the middle.  They connect with a hollow threaded rod that has
 a grease nipple at one end and holes for grease to get out inside.
You assemble it around a bearing and add grease from the inside.
The grease is forced through the bearing cage where you can not 
push it with your fingers.

Bottom line is that the grease only needs to work for the first few 
hours of driving until the oil has moved into place. 
To be effective, the grease needs to be in the bearing cage and 
along the race where the rotation and pressure exists.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:23:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

>That the Salisbury may be heavier, thus putting more wieght low down,
>does not really affect stability, because stability is all about the
>weight/mass/ centre of gravity of the vehicle ABOVE the axles - the bit
>that swings on corners and bumps. The axles remain (at least in theory)
>"fixed to the road" whilst the rest of the truck rolls above them.
I'm talking about tipover angle - if you add mass below the center of
gravity it has got to make a difference.  Maybe the masses of the rover and
salisbury axels are too similar to make a difference, in practice though.
Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:50:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Darien Gap

Gerry Elam wrote: 

> The National Geographic issue is Vol. 119, No. 3, March 1961.

> The article is, strangely enough, "We Drove Panama's Darien Gap" by Kip
Ross.

> Re-reading the last part, it isn't easy to tell if the Land Rover 
> survived the broken winch cable. 

I have the Nat Geo CD collection at home - it's taken me a while to get
around to checking this out. It really is a great story. If you read the
account carefully, the Rover does, in fact, survive. In fact, the narrator
indicates that the Rover is the first vehicle to cross the Columbia border
and thus the first to complete the drive. The drivers of the Rover continued
on to Bogota. And FWIW, this Rover (a three-door 109) began the journey in
Toronto.

The broken winch cable is an amazing story. They were winching down a 70
degree slope (think roller coasters here, people) when it broke. The Rover
went *end over end* several times down the slope, ending upright with a very
shaken though otherwise unhurt driver and little other damage.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 10:40:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem 

>Should I pull the starter and clean it up (maybe get a rebuild kit 
>from RN while it's out)?  Or keep chasing a ground problem?  The 
>starter 
>only has a hot lead, no ground strap (or obvious place to mount it), should 
>it have one?  It seems to be grounded only through the mounting.

I diagnosed a similar problem by using a jumper cable. Connect it from battery 
(-) to engine block. See if that helps. If so, connect a permanent cable 
between said points. Usually the block is grounded through a cable connected to 
the frame from one of the starter mounting bolts. On mine this was not enough 
to turn then engine over, even with the contact areas polished bright.

later
dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 10:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Strong 10 spline axles! 

>I'm talking about tipover angle - if you add mass below the center of gravity 
>it has got to make a difference.

in that case, I would think adding more weight below the C.O.G would mae it 
less likely to tip...

eh?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@drexel.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:16:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

According to dbobeck@ushmm.org:
> >Should I pull the starter and clean it up (maybe get a rebuild kit 
> >from RN while it's out)?  Or keep chasing a ground problem?  The 
> >starter 
> >only has a hot lead, no ground strap (or obvious place to mount it), should 
> >it have one?  It seems to be grounded only through the mounting.
> I diagnosed a similar problem by using a jumper cable. Connect it from 
battery 
> (-) to engine block. See if that helps. If so, connect a permanent cable 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> the frame from one of the starter mounting bolts. On mine this was not enough 
> to turn then engine over, even with the contact areas polished bright.

I didn't realize this wasn't standard but my ground cable runs to the
front of the block to a big boss below the thermostat.  That doesn't
assure that the starter itself is getting good ground though does it? 
Should a SIII starter have its own ground strap?

Casey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:27:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

Casey McMullen wrote:

> I have re-read the recent thread about the starter on my 72 SIII as I
> have my own problem.  My starter was intermitent for a few days, then
> refused to work at all.
> First it would spin but not turn the engine.
> Next it stopped spinning and just made that clicking fluttering noise.
> Finally it stopped all together, and wouldn't start via crank.
> I thought ground problem (also my OR-lights relay stopped working,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
> thanks,
> Casey

Sounds like your starter is baked but you do definately need a better ground to
the engine. I always run the battery ground to the block (there are several
handy bolts on the timing case) and then run from there to the frame with the
same sized wire.
This eliminates ground problems at the battery end.
John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:57:16 EST
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

In a message dated 12/15/98 10:39:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dbobeck@ushmm.org writes:

> If so, connect a permanent cable 
>  between said points. Usually the block is grounded through a cable
connected 
> to 
>  the frame from one of the starter mounting bolts

This is a common problem with farm equipment as well as old LR's.  I routinely
run a cable from the negative battery post to the engine block on anything
which will see a lot of off road use. (Tractors, trucks etc).  On my Rover, I
use the bolt which attaches to the oil filler bracket (not the side plate)

Nate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:32:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

>Should a SIII starter have its own ground strap?

My IIA starter has got one - couldn't hurt right?  Put one on - I would
think it should have its own anyway.   Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Seymour, Gareth" <gareth.seymour@sihe.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:35:47 -0000
Subject: Alaska Visit

2 mad fools are going to leave nice warm Wales for nice cold Anchorage
on Christmas Eve. We will be there until the 2nd. Jan. Any Alaskan Rover
owners on line who want to meet for a chat and a drink then drop me a
line and I'll pass on details of where we are staying.

Apologies to Mike Carradine, John White and the Rest of the Albatross
crowd for not coming to San Francisco this year....after 7 or 8 visits
we thought we had better have a change. 

Seasons greetings and a Happy Rovering New Year,

Gareth

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 11:49:24 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Another Starter Problem 

>I didn't realize this wasn't standard but my ground cable runs to the 
>front of the block to a big boss below the thermostat.  That doesn't 
>assure that the starter itself is getting good ground though does it? 
>Should a SIII starter have its own ground strap?

yes.

rgrds
dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:50:49 +0000
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

Casey McMullen wrote:
> Should I pull the starter and clean it up (maybe get a rebuild kit from
> RN while it's out)?  Or keep chasing a ground problem?  The starter
> only has a hot lead, no ground strap (or obvious place to mount it), should
> it have one?  It seems to be grounded only through the mounting.

There was a mention the other day about cleaning the starter motor
Bendix spiral with dry graphite, but it is essential to get it really
clean first. I had one once all clogged up with oil after a crankshaft
oil seal went, it was ok after a good clean.
During the Series III 109 rebuild I bought some new earth straps. The
negative from the battery goes to the battery stand and from the same
bolt I put a strap to the timing chain case, I also put a strap from one
of the starter motor mounting bolts to the chassis using one of the 3
bolts which holds the bulkhead support bracket to the chassis.
All mountings being cleaned with emery cloth and then covered with
petroleum jelly (Vaseline).
It should last a while!

Mick Forster
1972 109" Safari 2.25 petrol
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/LWBrst/LWBrst.html
http://members.aol.com/IssyJames/LRlinks/LRlinks.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:10:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

Adrian has a point but one should never loose sight of why the vast
majority of 10 spline axles break. Breakage is seldom due to outright
overload. It is the result of metal fatigue.  Shafts usually fracture
suddenly in normal use - pulling away from a traffic light is a common
situation. And the short shafts fracture at a higer rate (78% according to
our sales records) than the longer ones- the longer one has a greater
capacity to absorb shocks.  Next time you break an axle examine the break
and you will see a rough crystalline fracture - the typical evidence of
metal fatigue. The fracture will usually occur at the inner end (The reason
probably being that the work done on the inner end of the shaft is more
than that done on the outer end of the shaft. This loss of work done is the
work done in accelerating and decelerating the shaft).  If you want to
substantially reduce the chances of having a broken shaft simply exchange
your half shafts for new ones every 30,000 miles or so. For most of us this
equates to once every three years and is a lot cheaper that buying special
shafts.

When asked about this by new series owners I advise them to pull the shafts
and examine the inner ends. If the splines show signs of indentation and
wear I advise that new ones be fitted.

In South Africa in the sixties I knew an old engineer who claimed to have
solved this problem by drilling 6mm holes 3 inches deep in the inner
centerline of the axles. He felt that this distributed the stresses in the
axle ends better and reduced metal fatigue. He also claimed that if a shaft
did break he could pull out the broken stub with a stud extractor on a rod.

Ray Wood

----------

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:08:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Alaska Visit

I know that there is a red 88" in Hope wich is on the Kenai side of the
inlet, across from Anchorage. Don't think he is on line though.
Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

Seymour, Gareth wrote:
> 2 mad fools are going to leave nice warm Wales for nice cold Anchorage
> on Christmas Eve. We will be there until the 2nd. Jan. Any Alaskan Rover
> owners on line who want to meet for a chat and a drink then drop me a
> line and I'll pass on details of where we are staying.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Stockdales" <mstockdale@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:43:38 -0800
Subject: Guinness for what its worth

Just wanted to add a little something to the Guinness thread.

There is a bar/pub in Charleston SC (Tommy Condons) that serves the Nectar
of the Gods with a clover drawn in the foam.  When I first saw this I was so
amazed that I had to stop and watch as it slowly dissolved.  Its best to go
on a weekend night and hear the live Irish bands.  Be careful it is a lot of
fun, and you'll drink and sing all night.

There is a bar in Pittsburgh PA (Chiodas) that serves the stuff and the
Bar-tender will sing old Irish ballads as he draws it from the tap.  He also
sings at the local Carnegie Hall.  This BTW is the real Carnegie Hall built
by Andrew before the one in NYC.

Where is your best place to enjoy the Nectar of the Gods?

Now what can we say about the other fine Irish Stouts.  We have yet to hear
form a Smithwicks drinker.  Murphy's may be okay but its not a full meal in
a glass (Guinness = two meat pies in every glass).  Oshea's can't compete
either.  Taddy Porters are close but you know what they say: close only
counts with horse-shoes and hand-granades.

Some more food for thought
**

What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish wake?
One less drunk at the wake.

**
An Irish man walks into a pub. The bartender asks him, "what'll you have?"

The man says, "Give me three cold Guinness Stouts please."

So the bartender brings him three cold brews and the man proceeds to
alternately sip one, then the other, then the third until they're gone. He
then orders three more.

The bartender says, "Sir, I know you like them cold. You don't have to order
three at a time. I can keep an eye on it and when you get low I'll bring you
a fresh cold one."

The man says, "You don't understand. I have two brothers, one in Australia
and one in the States. We made a vow to each other that every Saturday night
we'd still drink together. So right now, my brothers have three Guinness
Stouts too, and we're drinking together.

The bartender thought that was a wonderful tradition.

Every week the man came in and ordered three beers. Then one week he came in
and ordered only two. He drank them and then ordered two more.

The bartender said to him, "I know what your tradition is, and I'd just like
to say that I'm sorry that one of your brothers died."

The man said, "Oh, me brothers are fine----I just quit drinking."

**

An Irishman finds a lamp. He rubs it and a Genie emerges.

The Genie tells him he will be granted three wishes. The Irishman thinks for
a moment and says, "First, give me a bottomless mug of Guinness."

A mug of Guinness appears in his hand. He sips it once, then again and the
mug is magically refilled. The Irishman is thrilled and continues to drink.
The mug never empties.

Then the Genie says, "And what about your other two wishes?"

The Irishman thinks for a moment and says, "Give me two more just like this
one!"

And check out this link http://www.inch.com/~irish/guinness.html

Have a great day my friends

Mitch and the Red Dinosaur

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:57:31 -0700
Subject: Re: well, Sid's alternating again

John informs:
>Just for your information, that porcelain insulator is in fact the voltage
>regulator.
>These are cheap and easy to replace if you have the facilities like a work
>bench but since your parking lot isn't particularly well equipped you did the
>wise thing.

Aha, now I get it. Thanks Alan and John. So that fiddly little bit is the
internal regulator. Hmmm, kind of makes you appreciate the old Lucas
external, more options than just replacing.

-joseph and sidney (watch out lads, now sports "NASCAR Gold" edition
alternator, with gold-plated pulley)
missoula, mt (no snow=no fun)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Braman Wing" <bcw6@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:20:16 PST
Subject: RE: Strong 10 spline axles!

As someone else mentioned, you should definietly find out what steel and 
heat treatment they are going to use. I'd use 4340 Qenched and tempered 
to 400 degrees. I would imagine the stock axles are a medium carbon 
steel, probably something close to 1050. Assuming these are the steels 
in question, Swithing to the 4340 will give a 67% impsovement in yield 
strength. However, it is my understanding that almost all axle failures 
in rovers are fatigue failures.  While fatigue strength generally 
increases with tensile strength(teh endurance limit is approximately 
40%-50% of tensile), the fatigue strength or endurance limit generally 
reaches a "ceiling" of about 100000psi. Thus, the 1050 has a fatigue 
strength of about 82ksi and the 4340 will give about 100ksi, now you're 
only looking at a 22% improvement in strength. However, due to the 
flatness of the S-N(load versus cycles to failure) curve, a 25% strength 
improvement may give a significant improvement in the life of the part. 

The other issue is the machining. Peter mentioned that you could do it 
with a vertical mill and an index head with the right cutter. This is 
true, but it would be much better to use a horizontal mill so that he 
radius on the end of the splines is oriented to avoid stress 
concentrations. Cutting splines is very simple in principal, but if 
doing it by hand with an index head is a b*** to set up(I've done it, 
and gotten about 1 good part for every 5 attempted) A profssional 
machinist would be much better at it, obviously, but the price quoted 
seems very reasonable to me. Presumably the machinist would have to 
measure the existing axles and duplicate them, or would you provide a 
drawing? This would add considerably to the cost. Also, 4340 is 
expensive stuff, probably at least $100 for the raw material. Heat treat 
charge is probably about $400. 

Ask if the shop will use a CNC machine or cut the splines by hand. They 
might also broach them, which would be a lot stronger but more 
expensive.  My money is that they will CNC them, very few shops do 
things by hand anymore, even 1 or 2 off. The quantity discount for CNC 
work is much greater than for hand work. off the top of my head I'd say:

by hand: 2-3 hour setup, 2-3 hours per part
CNC: 3-4 hour setup, 10-20 minutes per part

I'd be interested to know what the shop comes up with. 

Lastly(as if I haven't gone on long enough), you should think about 
redesigning the axles to lower the stress while you're at it. I must 
admit to never having seen a rover axle in person, as I have been 
fortunate enough not to break one yet. However, it is likely that there 
are areas where stress risers could be corrected and/or thickness added. 
While the material change may give you enough, if you can drop the 
stress while you're at it, why not go for it? I'd be happy to offer some 
suggestions if someone could send me a detail drawing or picture of the 
axle. 

I believe DAP in Vermont has been through this excercize before. Also, 
ashcroft in England make increased strength half-shafts but I think they 
are all 24 spline. It seems like a worthwhile endeavour to make stronger 
axles. I very much doubt that rover axles are purposely designed as a 
"shear pin" to break before anything else. Does anyone have any basis 
for this asumption other than teh fact that they break a lot?  While it 
is a good idea in principle... well, that is a subject for another day. 
If the demand were great enough, you could justify the cost of a 
broach(higher initial cost, lower per piece cost  + stronger splines). 

Well, that's my lunch break. good luck,

Braman

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:22:55 -0800
Subject: RE: Koening Rear PTO Winch

Turns out that the wording of the add confused my overworked little mind.
It's a front mounted Koening PTO winch.  The PTO used is the one on the rear
of the transmission.  Bought it this morning.  Only thing missing is the
drive shaft which should be easy enough to fabricate.

Apparently, these winches were dealer installed options for North American
Series vehicles in the late 60's??   Does anybody have any literature or
know any ratings for them?

I've used one before on Sussex's '69  (see picture at
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4954/suswinch.jpg ) and found it
to be incredibly strong.  By running off the transmission PTO, you use 1st
gear for heavy pulling (transfer box in neutral), 4th gear for spooling in
the wire, and pop into reverse to spool out...   and feather the clutch for
gentle work...

Bought it from Wise Owl in Vancouver.  They have some other good deals on
used stuff on their Web Site at http://www.bcoffroad.com/wiseowl/

Guess this means that an overdrive is out of the question now...  ;-(

Paul Quin
1961 SII 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:19:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

Adrian Redmond wrote:
= 
= The idea seems attractive - but lets think about it.
= 
= Rear axle half shafts usually only break when we abuse our car, like
= driving in 4WD on tarmac. 
Or 4-wheeling which I do a lot of. I will admit that due to my
4-wheeling for so long in my bronco, I could be a little nicer to the
landy due to it's weaker axles. But then again a landy should be able to
put up with extreme abuse above and beyond all other 4wd's,  right Dave
B?
= That's not a bad batting average. Now if we stengthen the axles, so
that
= they no longer function as the "fuse" in the system, which part of the
= drive chain will be the next to break? The diff? The tranny? The
output
= shaft? the clutch? or even the engine itself?
Before I started my axle search, I went through every axle post in the
archives to see what I could dig up.
"There are two theories about axle shafts breaking.  One theory holds
that
the axle is designed to break thus acting like a shear pin to prevent
damage
to more expensive components.  The rest of us regard this theory as
utter
nonsense, logically reasoning that this kinda stuff should not break. 
In
reality, these fragile axles are probably a feature for the Pommies and
a
bug for the Yanks." 
This is my reasoning also. The only other thing that might break is
something in the diff, but I don't think so. All the other components
have been tested with the saulsbury.
	By the way, I did find another shop who is quoting $490, so I don't
need to convince all you negative nancys to get my price down. This
price will be cheaper than ashcroft after shipping, so I may do it. If I
buy them, and break something else, I will let you all know so you can
laugh at me and say I told you so. If nothing breaks, I will be laughing
quite heartily at every axle breaking post I read. From the comments and
archives it seems no one has ever installed any stronger axles to test
this theory, so I will be the guine pig.
Thanks for all the comments/criticism.
Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@drexel.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:32:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Another Starter Problem

Just ran out and got some grounding straps and graphite lube.  Hopefully 
I can attack my starter tonight after I bottle a batch of beer with my 
buddy.  Don't worry it's not an Irish Dry Stout (ie. Guinness, although I 
enjoyed one last night), rather a Holiday Amber Ale spiced with nutmeg, 
cinammon, and orange peel.  Once they've carbonated themselves I'll pass 
a few around the virtual pub.

Thanks for the help, cheers!
Casey McMullen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:50:56 EST
Subject: Re: Visiting So. Cal!

In a message dated 98-12-15 09:46:28 EST, you write:

<< My folks live in Claremont in San Gabrial valley >>

Wow! My folks live in Pomona - where I happened to plan on being this
Sunday...don't know if I'll be in the 109 or the Rangie, but I'll give you a
call.

Charles

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:11:10 EST
Subject: Re: Darien Gap

In a message dated 12/15/98 7:38:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
harincar@Camworks.com writes:

<< The National Geographic issue is Vol. 119, No. 3, March 1961.
 > The article is, strangely enough, "We Drove Panama's Darien Gap" by Kip
 Ross. >>
Could someone in posession of said article please inform me whether Mark Smith
(big j**p guy and owner of J**p Jamboree) is involved.  He was on one Darien
Gap expedition and subsequently, I bought an 88" from him.  No, Darien has
nothing to do with the 88 I have.

Zack Arbios

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:39:09 +0100
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

As you so rightly say - the shear pin theory may be total nonsense - but
maybe the four bolts holding the tranny to the gearbox could shear too?
I don't know, but I wouldn't like the idea of a tranny breaking loose at
one end, whilst the other end force it to rotate - and the vehicle is
still in motion? Could be nonsense - even horse-p*ss - but the very idea
makes me cringe enough to feel that changing a half shaft every 10 years
is no real problem.

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:12:34 -0000
Subject: Re: starting heaters

If you have a garage with lecky a 100 watt bulb, lying on the floor under
the sump warms it up very nicely thank you.....
PKV's out inthe open so I'm researching an outdoor supply (garden type) for
plugging in a block heater...which is all I can find in the UK.. none of the
other stuff Adrian refers to...

anyone got any other ideas??

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 15:52:31 -0500
Subject: running with hook in mouth

> But then again a landy should be able to put up with extreme abuse 
>above and beyond all other 4wd's,  right Dave B?

Ok, I'll bite...
Yes. Absolutely. Irrefutably. 
I would say that a stock LR comes with beefier components than any other 
vehicle in its class. Still true today. Axles break alot? Could be the driver. 
Axles break "every now and then", sounds more like the usual situation. What 
happens when the axles goes? You pull it out, drive out in front wheel drive or 
put in the spare axle. At least they are built with full floating axles that 
don't allow the whole wheel to come off when an axle breaks. Seen this on jeeps 
with semi-floaters. Ended up making a sled out of the leaf spring to drag it 
out on. Land Rovers are built to truck specifications. Ever look at the shackle 
(oh no not them again) on the front of a jeep? They are stamped.Seen em break 
where the bolt goes thru. Never happen on a rover. LC's have a nasty habit of 
grenading the transfer box. You can get a beefier aftermarket case to put the 
leftover bits back into after you clean all that Moab dirt out of them. Also 
they like to break front axles. Rebuild swivel balls? Not. Welded to the axle 
case. Scouts? Broncos? You see more of them on the trail because there are more 
of them to begin with and they are better platforms for modification into 
specialized trail vehicles, because of the availability of parts.

 So yes, I would hold to that original statement. Lets hear some differing 
opinions.

BTW I broke my rear diff in Ottawa this summer. The later diffs with 4-pin 
carriers are stronger (don't ask me what that means)
 I don't think adding a stronger axle will cause a big problem in the drive 
train. I thikn the drive train components normally endure the same amount of 
strain that causes axles to break. When diffs and gearboxes go, it is because 
they are fatigued. Same w/axles. I hav a hard time imagining a spinning wheel 
coming down on grippy rock or something similar causing the gearbox to break. 
Diff? Maybe. Probably just chirp the tires though. If there is any risk, it is 
that the axles are tougher than the bts they mate to, specifically the drive 
flange, whose splines are notoriously wimpy. Just plain not enough of em. A 
little wear and they are done...your hardened axles may make this happen 
faster. Don't really know though. I say go for it. You can always switch back 
if you start breaking everything in sight.

later
dave  

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:40:31 -0000
Subject: Re: Koening Rear PTO Winch

Paul, just make sure that the driveshaft is very very straight.
The original was splined, just like a real propshaft, we managed to separate
the splines during a "gentle" drive. Before we could stop to replace it got
a bit knocked about.
When we replaced it it was a bit on the not straight side of things...
so when we used the winch thereafter the lack of balance was wondrous to
behold....... imagine a well out of tru propshaft whirling around at lots of
revs... the poor old Landy tried to shake itself to bits....
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:34:38 -0000
Subject: Re: Guinness for what its worth

Best place for drinking Guinness.. it's a close thing between O'Neils and
O'Connors, both in Dublin.....

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: andy Smith <andy@bobstar.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:58:44 +0000
Subject: Re: starting heaters

In message <bulk.1530.19981214230719@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, Adrian
Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> writes
>On my Alaska trip I discovered that US vehicles in the Arctic have a
>wealthof starting aids - besides the block/core heater which we know
>about here in denmark, they have dipstick heaters, oil pan heaters,
>gearbox heaters, battery heater pads and jackets, and even internal
>heaters. Most trucks have at least three of these fitted, some with the
>addition of a battery charger which is put on when parking overnight in
>sub-zero temperatures. I tried a vehicle with this rig, the first nigfht
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
>itself?)
>Does anyone know of sources for 220 volt engine heaters like the above?

Adrian,
       You could always use a 240 to 110 volt transformer as used in the 
hire industry here in the UK, they cost around 60 to 70 pounds just an
idea.

-- 
andy Smith
1965 s2a V8 ccvt/road
1971 s2a 2.25P road
Founder of chat channel #uk_rover on dal.net

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:29:07 -0800
Subject: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Adrian writes:

which I can use on this side of the pond where the electric potential is
of a more reasonable level - 220 volts (that should start a flame war in
itself?)

In our own defense I would like to point out that the voltage coming into
our houses here in North America is 220/240 vac, we just get an extra wire
from the pole top transformers on the street called a neutral (center tap)
which we can use to split the 240 into 2 - 110/120 vac lines which are a
good deal less hazardous to your health.  Most of our big household loads
like ovens & furnaces use 220/240vac.

Paul in Victoria.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:48:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Paul Quin wrote:

> Adrian writes:
> which I can use on this side of the pond where the electric potential is
> of a more reasonable level - 220 volts (that should start a flame war in
> itself?)
> In our own defense I would like to point out that the voltage coming into
> our houses here in North America is 220/240 vac, we just get an extra wire
> from the pole top transformers on the street called a neutral (center tap)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> like ovens & furnaces use 220/240vac.
> Paul in Victoria

The question of whether 110-120 volts is less hazardous is by no means
settled.
As the Voltage increases the amperage required to do the same work decreases
therefor the danger of wires heating and burning is reduced.
It is also amperage that kills. Most of us who work on our vehicles have been
zapped by many thousand volts with little more than a sharp jolt resulting.
John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:59:08 -0000
Subject: digester tuning

Basically, there are about 1600 individual subscribed to the L.R.O. lists.

Of those, in any given list, up to about 25%-33% are frequent posters, the
remainder being lurkers. As Jeff pointed out, there are a number of folks
who have taken to reading it over the web, and aren't even subscribed
in the 'traditional' sense, and there are lots more who have multiple
accounts, or are rather 'mobile' with respect to addresses, or subscribe
or send mail from places that are not quite configured correctly.

> an address from a subscriber

For the simple case, the subscribers, it is true that the software we are
using has that feature, though for the above considerations, that filter has
not been enabled. With some work, it could be modified to allow subscibers and
some 'registry' of approved addresses to post, but logistically, this creates
a nightmare for 'registering' individual approved FROM addresses, and it 
still would boot folks who are at the mercy of poorly configured  or 
anonymous systems... 

> or a name/signature from a known correspondant

As for accepting mail from known correspondents, at this point the historical
data is tainted by known spammers, if only in the remains of spam kill lines
or remains of spam that was partially processed, not to mention that some
previously 'ok' people did something to be dis-allowed.

> or a keyword such as Land Rover

At present the 'spam kill' mechanism is based on negatives, either known
words, phrases, source hosts, networks etc. that have been identified as
having a stronger relation to 'spam' than to list subscribers. I check for
such addresses being in use by  subscribers, but sometimes they start up 
with the offending service later on, or when I'm trying to make a phrase
or address wider or more generic, I accidently stomp on some valid host
name.

As for checking for Rover/Auto/Off-roading/mechanical/etc. related key words, 
I do have a dictionary under develpment (actually it was part of the original
process to produce a list of words which were more common in sales/marketing
than in list messages), but that then begs the question, what words 
need to be on that list to pick up a message like:

dhlowe wrote:
>Some few years ago eldest son who was about 17 or 18 years old at the time was 
driving Murphy, canvas off , through Toronto. Stopped at a set of lights he 
felt that feeling that someone was staring at him. Looking over he saw this 
attractive mid thirties aged woman in a convertible next to him.He smiled back. 
 
She said "I like your truck". He smiled again and said "thank you"........She 
then said ............".Yea., it makes me hot" they then drove off, she still 
staring and smiling............and he didn`t even get her number. Now why can`t 
this happen to the old man.

Frank Elson's:
> Guinness or Mackeson was given out in Hospitals...right up to the 1970's.  
Only stopped because of the cost.  I encouraged people to bring in either 
during 
my recent rest........

If the list of 'rover' related words is too restrictive, we may never see
quick comments on the virtues of drinking your grains or non-mechanical
Land-Rover related posts... (beer, guns, women, etc.)

>From host / intermediate host verification

AT this point, these are pretty much system wide services either opted into
or out of by the system administrator (at least for the OS/MTA in use here),
and for other reasons, the system ops have chosen not to restrict incoming
mail, because they have chosen to be liberal in what they accept, which given
our policy on accepting individual messages for the list, we can't fault
their choice, though it might have some benefit to us, the quantity of good
messages lost due to it would be measurable. 

The other issue with these types of services is that they are always behind
the curve for spammers - spammer x victimizes site Y or finds unwitting ISP z
and starts sending - lots of people get spammed before it makes it to the
RBL or whatever spam kill list, and they keep moving on...

Where we are today

At the present, the spam kill mechanism is erring on the over-zealous side -
and eventually, I try and extract the harsher bits of it to not deny legitimate
messages. 

Also, the digester mechanism is providing other services, in addition to spam
killing:
	reducing large forwarded passages to a few lines
		if you're in real-time, you probably just read it,
		if you're in digest, you can easily find it if it wasn't
		the same day...

	removing HTML formatted text
		(where folks forget to uncheck the default 'send as html' box
		or check the box 'send as both text and html')

	removing attachments in the digest
		if you've got graphics or documents, put it on a web server

	removing bounced messages which are sent to the list by poorly
		implemented MTAs (usually ccMail gateways :-)

	removing anything that smells like a loop
[spamkill: [Mm]ailshuttle input: %s]	 		(thanks to the idiots 
at the now defunct mailshuttle.com,

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Braman Wing" <bcw6@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:01:31 PST
Subject: Axles and Fatigue

I would agree with Adrian's arguement that axles should not fail. Like 
he says, if the drivetrain were up to the standards of the rest of the 
vehicle, you should be able to jump on and off the gas while pulling a 
heavy trailer for 500000 miles before the axles let go.  The fact that 
few axles break due to overloading and most break due to fatigue 
demonstrates that there is no design intention to use the axle as a 
shear pin. If LR engineers really wanted a shear pin in the drivetrain, 
they could easily have come up with an even easier and cheaper to 
replace solution than designing a weak axle. Weak axles are a design 
flaw, pure and simple. 

Does anybody have any evidence for the shear pin theory? I'd like to 
hear your reasoning. 

regards,

Braman
IIA 88" petrol(original axles still going strong - go figure)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:03:04 -0800
Subject: RE: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Yes, but 120vac across 100k ohm of Human flesh pushes  half the current of
240 vac across the same 100 k of flesh.

And studies have shown that you are more likely to be capable of letting go
of a wire you have grasped at 120 volts Vs 240 volts which tends to override
all muscular control...

Been there, done that, lived to tell the tale.

Paul (surrounded by geeky power engineers) Quin
Power Measurement Ltd.
Victoria, BC 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:44:37 +1000
Subject: Re: stronger axles

there is a company in Australia (Jack MacNamara) that makes a modified diff
carier, and spider gears, which is supplied with salsbury sized axles and
drive flanges - also make a locking mechanism
This all fits in the standard axle housing so does not affect the ground
clearance like a salisbury does
I've had one for about 16 years now - transferred it between 2 landys - at
one stage I did a crown wheel and pinion, but no other 'no weak link' type
problems

I think maxi-drive in Queensland can do a similar thing

the prices increase significantly whan you go for the diff lock too option,
but for strength alone I don't think its too much, I'd be surprised if you
couldn't get the stronger carrier and stronger axles for less than $1500 US

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Udhi <ingan@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:08:15 +0000
Subject: Qs on Replacing a 2.25 Petrol with a 2.5 LR Diesel.

Hi all,
I just had an interesting chat with a local LR speciallist who told me that
a 2.25 petrol to 2.5l Diesel engine swap is easy, inexpensive, fuel-wise
cost effective and helps increase/steady a Lightweight Slll's value. Is
this your opinion?

Could you give me any info on how effective and easy this task is (what is
changed), as well as the costs involved, to have it done by a garage (have
been quoted about 1700-2000 UKP). This person suggested buying a pretty
high mileage LR 2.5 N/A Diesel (Turbos are "delicate" apparently), for
about 4-500 UKP, and then reconditioning this unit to near new condition
and fitting for the rest of the 1000 or so. The rationale being that
spending about 800-1000 on a newer unit allows too little money to assess
the engine for condition before fitting, whereas an older one being
reconditioned, will allow a thorough inspection.

Is there an easier way?, If I scrape up a reconditioned unit, they are more
than willing to fit it. Where can I get my mitts on a reconditioned unit in
the UK? for how much?. The speciallist suggests an mpg of 30-35, with the
installed Hi Ratio diffs, is this what users encounter?, Also what about
the power? will it be the same as a 2.25 petrol?, I feel the top speed will
bw lowered as a diesel is said to be a lower revving unit, but how about
normal sub-60 mph driving?

OOh questions questions!, I look forward to hearing your comments, and
please do not suggest doing the swap myself- this is tantamount to a death
sentence for me and anybody within 50 meters of me!

Regards
Udhi

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Stephen C. West-Fisher" <westfish@gte.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:10:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Another twist to my dilema

On 14-Dec-98 The Stockdales wrote:
> Okay fellas and TAW.
> I was looking at my newest AB catalogue and they are now listing bearings:
>     "Main Bearing Set II (58-61), (2 Litre Diesel I &II)"
>     "Connecting Rod Bearing Set 21/4 (58-61) & 2 Litre Diesel"
> These are listed in the Cat. but not on the price sheet.  This being the
> weekend I haven't called AB to find out what the deal is.  Alain Hoffmann
> wrote that his parts supplier in Luxembourg can get bearings for this engine
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> wrote that his parts supplier in Luxembourg can get bearings for this engine
> too.

Keep me informed what you do, when I get my '60 down I'm probably going to have
to overhaul her, and I was worried about the normally replaced bits marked NLA
in the catalogs.
Steve West-Fisher
westfish@gte.net

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:59:06 EST
Subject: Forget 10 splines--get a Salisbury!

Jim,
Don't mess around w/ the 10-spliners--I got my Salisbury used for a lot less
than you are looking at for the stronger half-shafts.  Granted, it's a big ol'
pain in the arse to install a Salisbury on an 88"--but it was nice and easy on
my 109".  But I still think it'd be better to do the Salisbury things.  Call
British Bulldog--they had a bunch of used ones around about 8 mos. ago.  See
what they're asking for 'em.

Bill Rice
SIIA 109"SW w/ leaky rear Salisbury diff (new pinion seal yesterday w/ seal
saver--leaks worse than ever now--will re-attempt installation of a new seal
Thursday.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:13:30 -0500
Subject: Vacuum gauges

C . Marin Faure wrote an excellent piece on vacuum gauges, I would like to
add, that with experience, or a good manual the gauge readings and needle
behaviour pattern can be used to diagnose quite a number of engine faults,
for example, weak mixture, rich mixture, burnt valves, retarded ignition,
sticking valves, over advanced etc. 
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:18:36
Subject: axles

I have put this on the list before and now have lost the address, here is
the name of the company  ONE CRYO they have a web page. They harden almost
anything from NASCAR engines to hard drives. This really works, it was
devised by NASA. I had my rear axles (new unused set) treated for $52.00.

Jim Wolf 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:30:06
Subject: One cryo

I have just checked Netscape bookmarks and it's still there!

...www.onecryo.com

check about half way down in tthe Q&A section for my initial contact with
these people.  I origionally heard about the on the TV show NEXT STEP.

Usual disclamers, Guinness is GOOD. I espically like the BLACK & TAN with
BASS ale 8^).

Jim Wolf

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:35:25 -0500
Subject: Strong 10 spline axles!

Jum Foo writes re strong ten splines. 
 A much better solution is to change to 24 splines a la Salisbury axles. The
PD of the spline is better, the effective  radius is larger and thus
significantly increase the torsional strength of the shaft.  A common trick
in the UK is to have the diff planet gears wire eroded to the 24 spline
pattern and use the  Salisbury drive flanges. I think Ashcrofts do it ! 
 A friend in the UK had his half shafts made by  McLaren at   500  quid apiece.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:37:01 -1000
Subject: Re: Koening Rear PTO Winch

>Guess this means that an overdrive is out of the question now...  ;-(

Paul,
I believe that all you would have to do is get a shorter prop shaft to the
winch as the OD still has the PTO capability.
Aloha
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:45:06 -1000
Subject: Re: Koening Rear PTO Winch

>>Guess this means that an overdrive is out of the question now...  ;-(
>Paul,
>I believe that all you would have to do is get a shorter prop shaft to the
>winch as the OD still has the PTO capability.

Should have been longer shaft. . . doah
Also, I have a scanned copy of the Koenig manual.  Let me know and I can
email it to ya off list (server down otherwise I would post the URL)
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:48:05 -0500
Subject: Stability (was Strong 10 spline axles!)

Adrian Redmond wrote:

> That the Salisbury may be heavier, thus putting more wieght low down,
> does not really affect stability, because stability is all about the
> weight/mass/ centre of gravity of the vehicle ABOVE the axles - the
> bit
> that swings on corners and bumps. The axles remain (at least in
> theory)
> "fixed to the road" whilst the rest of the truck rolls above them.

1) Vehicle roll before lifting a wheel does not depend on the unsprung
mass which includes the axles. It depends on the height of the center of
gravity of the sprung mass above the roll center (essentially the height
of the springs), the roll stiffness, and the effective side force. The
side force can be due to the vehicle being tilted, or from centripital
acceleration.

2) Once a wheel is lifted, the associated unsprung mass, i.e. axle,
wheels, etc., becomes effectively sprung mass.

Changing to a heavier axle won't affect vehicle roll when going around a
corner, but will affect ultimate roll over.

Regards,
David Cockey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:06:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

Bristh Northwest claims "None of our Extreme-duty Half Shafts have ever
been known to break in service". I don't know what they currently quote
for these.

I think I read somewhere that the LR differential was carried over from
a pre-war Rover car. I suspect the "shear pin" theory was put forth by
someone who wanted to turn a design defect into a "feature". I've never
heard of designing a "shear pin" into a drivetrain. General practice is
to factor the maximum traction between the tire and ground when
determining design loads for the drivetrain. The tire bouncing situation
can be worst case, but it can be factored in using drivetrain and
tire/wheel inertia, and maximum traction.

Regards,
David Cockey

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 16 Dec 1998 04:47:31 -0000
Subject: apologies to the lro list real-time readers who recieved au-lro

notice...

Hi folks, 
	made a typo and the weekly subscripion message for the aussies got
sent to the main list. 
	Should be sorted now.

	-B

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:40:32 +1100
Subject: Stick 'em Up

Paul Donohue asks:
>To rent manuals, must we bring a note from Mom?

P'raps.  After all, Cort wrote:
>Now, if I can only learn to drive a stick  :)

I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
something that is rare in the USA?

Regards,

Ron

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:35:43 +1100
Subject: : vacuum gauges

C. Marin Faure wrote about a manifold pressure guage:
>I would love to put one in our Range Rover but I haven't had the
>time or the guts to start cutting holes in the instrument panel or
>root around in the engine bay looking for the right pressure
>pickoff.  I don't know enough about fuel-injected engines to
>know exactly where the right place is to pick off the pressure,
>anyway.

Marin,
My EFI Rangie has a non-standard ECU with a manifold absolute pressure
(MAP) sensor.  The vacuum line to the sensor is connected to a T-piece with
the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.  This then connects to the
vacuum nipple at the right rear side of the engine plenum chamber.  If I
plug my computer into the ECU I can read the manifold vacuum.

Regards,

Ron

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:34:58 EST
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

In a message dated 12/15/98 11:31:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
hillman@bigpond.com writes:

<< I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
 something that is rare in the USA? >>

With every passing year, yes.

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: smitty1@altavista.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:51:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Strong 10 spline axles!

As you so rightly say - the shear pin theory may be total nonsense - but
maybe the four bolts holding the tranny to the gearbox could shear too?
I don't know, but I wouldn't like the idea of a tranny breaking loose at
one end, whilst the other end force it to rotate - and the vehicle is
still in motion? Could be nonsense - even horse-p*ss - but the very idea
makes me cringe enough to feel that changing a half shaft every 10 years
is no real problem.
Adrian Redmond

I think the shear pin theory is crap, but from my limited experience, I have 
seen axle diffs go and drive shafts pull/twist out. Also have seen several 
people 
with Toy PUs break off spindles and lose a wheel. Sounds like it would be a lot 
easier to replace a half shaft than mess with things more expensive.
Smitty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:14:48 +0100
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

Paul in Victoria wrote:

In our own defense I would like to point out that the voltage coming
into our houses here in North America is 220/240 vac, we just get an
extra wire from the pole top transformers on the street called a neutral
(center tap) which we can use to split the 240 into 2 - 110/120 vac
lines which are a good deal less hazardous to your health.  Most of our
big household loads like ovens & furnaces use 220/240vac.

Adrian replies:

Relativly speaking! Most houises in Europe are fed with 380 volts or 440
volts - that is three 220/240 volt supplies, each 120 degrees out of
phase, so that the potential between phases is 380/440 whilst the
potential between any phase and neutral/earth is 220/240.

Higher voltage means less amps for same wattage - therefore lighter
cables. Less copper.

Safety? In terms of accidental electrocution, most victims can survive a
short accidental shock of 120, 220, 380, or 440 volts - chances are that
those of weak heart who can't handle even a short burst of 440, will
probably suffer equally at 220.

Frequency is different too - NA uses 60 Hz - Europe 50 Hz - this lead -
in the early days of TV - to Europe choosing a frame rate of 25 frames
per seconds, built up from 2 fields, giving 50 scans a second - which
can be triggered from the mainssupply. Made synchronisation nationwide
very easy. As TV's 50 cyles 25 frames per second lay so close to the 24
frames per second known in the cinema industry, conversion of old fils
to TV was easy, just speed up by 1/25th.

USA chose to follow the same principle - arriving at a TV frame rate of
30 f.p.s. (in the black and white days) - which lay a long way from
cinemas 24 f.p.s. necessitating some expensive conversions or
compromises. When colour TV was introduced, Europe stayed on 25 f.p.s.
but the US in it's wisdom arrived at the NTSC system (we we maintain
stands for Never Twice the Same Colour) which for some obscure reason to
do with colour frequencies needed 29.97 frames per second, making it
essentially incompatible with 24, 25 and 30 f.p.s. and giving lousy
colour reproduction - every veiwer has to adjust the colour phase of
every tv receiver - talk about anachronisms.

Of course in these digital days, tv receivers and broadcasting equipment
are no longer dependent on the line frequency, so the matter has become
academic. And as digital technology takesover, we'll all end up with one
system - if we can agree that is...

But 120 volts - that's a lot of copper!

US

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:18:57 +0100
Subject: Re: 240vac VS 120vac. (No LR)

DC voltage causes muscles to close and grasp wires - AC voltages cause
muscles to kick away from the wire. Reflex actions. We're talking AC
when we talk of mains power, so I don't see the advantage of 120 over
220?

I have heard that the heaveir cables needed in the US for a given
current, lead to more accidents due to people using thinner cables -
more fires as well. This is safety too.

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Joost Kramer" <jkramer@best.ms.philips.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:22:39 +0100
Subject: Re: Koening Rear PTO Winch

>Turns out that the wording of the add confused my overworked little mind.
>It's a front mounted Koening PTO winch.  The PTO used is the one on the
rear
>of the transmission.  Bought it this morning.  Only thing missing is the
>drive shaft which should be easy enough to fabricate.

I do have the same problem, missing the drive shaft... This drive shaft has
a bearing in between, bolted to the oil sump.
My question is: what is the best way to fabricate such a shaft?

Joost Kramer
1980 SIII 88

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Thomas G. Butterfly" <volksworks@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:28:44 -0700
Subject: ORIGINAL DEALER BOOKS

landrover people    I have just cleaned out an old landrover rover car
dealership of all its literature. is anyone interested? have mint
original workshop manuals and parts books along with dealer service
bulletins in raelly cool lr folders.also some original accessory adds.
please get back to me. the stuff is in phoenix az.came from bill edell
motors tucson  az.  this stuff dates from 48 to 68 when they closed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Hans Nouwens <hnouwens@icgroup.nl>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:42:23 +0100
Subject: User <ct9154342@student.citg.tudelft.nl> not known at this site.

User <ct9154342@student.citg.tudelft.nl> not known at this site.

please remove this person from your list.

it's impossible because student numbers only have 6 digits...

Postmaster@student.citg.tudelft.nl

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:26:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Stick 'em Up

I *have* to ask the question.  Is the ability to drive a manual shift car
something that is rare in the USA?

Regards,

Ron

Not so rare as you'd think - many more men than women can, as most men owned a 4
or 5 speed at one time or another.

I personally prefer standard transmissions to automatics - less to break - but
most folks here don't want anything to do with a manual transmission. The
emissions gods and their standards are busily trying to ensure that nothing with
a standard is going to pass the specifications anyway, so the standard is
rapidly going the way of wind screens and roll-up windows.

I've been unsuccessfully trying to teach my wife how to drive a standard
transmission...<shudder>.

                              ajr

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 70 lines 3386 [forwarded 253 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 2127 [content 1817  forwarded 203 (cut  50) whitespace 0]

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-1999 by the original poster or/and Empire Rover Owners Society, All rights reserved. Photos & text Copyright 1990-1999 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Empire/LRO List of charges for Empire/LRO Policies against the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Empire/LRO fees for the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Frequently Asked Questions
<--Back	HOME	TOP	Forward -->	height=31 width=88 alt="Made with Macintosh" border=0>