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From: "John McMaster" <john@chiaroscuro.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:00:14 -0000
Subject: RE: Strange front hubs

Oggie is Cornish ;-)

john

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:54:07 +0200
Subject: Re: Strange front hubs

John McMaster wrote:
> Oggie is Cornish ;-)
> john

Is Oggie nice like the pasties?
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:18:55 EST
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings(no flame)

In a message dated 98-11-24 15:04:06 EST, you write:

<< Sorry, but do you mean jack and fix a flat or lift it to fit larger tires?
 Pete >>

Jack it up to fix a flat, wheels off the ground

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From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:30:56 -0600
Subject: Vacuum advance

I tested the vacuum advance on my 64llA today.  Following the instructions
in one of the many maintenance books I have purchased, I removed the rubber
tube from the carburetor, took the distributor cap off, sucked on the tube
to see if there was any movement anywhere in the distributor.

Nothing happened.

Does this matter? Do I need to replace the vacuum advance.

David Hope
64llA

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From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:39:11 -0600
Subject: PCV system

I am going through a few small maintenance jobs on my 64llA.

I have a question about what I think is called the PCV valve assembly. A
tube comes from the engine oil filler into a circular metal contraption
which has another tube coming out of the bottom.  The rubber tubes are
somewhat loose and probably rotten.

Anyway, inside the circular metal contraption, there is supposed to be a
diaphragm with a spring underneath.  Needless to say, both are missing.

My question to the list: does this matter?  Do I need to call Rovers North
and pay lots of money for something I've done without for 3 years - or does
someone have a spare one lying about?

David Hope
64llA

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:42:44 EST
Subject: Re: PCV system

In a message dated 11/25/98 8:33:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
davidjhope@email.msn.com writes:

> I am going through a few small maintenance jobs on my 64llA.
>  I have a question about what I think is called the PCV valve assembly

>From an originality standpoint, the 64's did not have PCV systems.  That was
added for US emissions regs later.  It should have a breather type cover on
the oil filler tube and the valve cover.

Nate

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From: "Lee Dunkelberg" <Lee_Dunkelberg@Hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:58:39 -0600

Saw a nice Series station wagon on Broadway in San Antonio yesterday.  
Well, I guess I should say a wagon with "potential".  Anybody on the list?
Looks like a cool obsession.

Lee and Clare Dunkelberg
1994 Yellow D-90
1998 White Discovery
1996 Black/White Lab/Border Collie 

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From: Kirk Hillman <khillman@rttinc.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:19:13 -0800
Subject: Extra heaters

    I am very interested in knowing what specific heaters all of you
have installed as extra heaters.  Aftermarket, scrap yard?  I
desperately need more heat in the Banshee, the kodiak is useless as far
as I am concerned.

Thanks,
Kirk Hillman

--
"Faith without works is dead."

Maranatha, selah.

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From: Ronny De Munter <Ronny.De.munter@netbuilding.simac.be>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:38:29 +0100
Subject: spareparts for fairley winches

hello,

we are looking for spareparts for a mechanical fairley winch
the UK army have installed these winches in the past on there LR109IIA
models
we need the shaft between the winche and the PTO 

thanks

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From: "Kevin and Company" <willeys@cyberus.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:38:12 -0500
Subject: amps in the fuse
	charset="iso-8859-1"

of course there are more amps in the ceramic fuse. amps are nocturnal =
types. in the dark they become protons and fly away to play in the =
world.  that is why you can't see the light in the day, they are afraid =
and won't come out and play.  can't convince them either, talk nice to =
your lights all day, and you can't get as many out as you do after dark. =
 i really gotta find more to do with my time...
oh does a bushing grow up to be a treeing
Kevin Willey
1996 disko (edith),
1973 lightwieght,
1987 Merlin, 1998 True North soft tail(full boing)
Hummers hum but Land Rovers know the words !

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 06:51:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

<SNIP>
>  The Green book doesn't say 

<SNIP>

<SNIP reply>
>My green book says 60 to 70 lbf-ft.

<SNIP>

I don't want to get involved in any fights, but what is the green book?  
I have a Hayes TR3-4 Manual that has a green cover.  Are you guys 
refering to a Hayes LR manual?

Just curious

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 07:11:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Extra heaters

>    I am very interested in knowing what specific heaters all of you
>have installed as extra heaters.  Aftermarket, scrap yard?  I
;>desperately need more heat in the Banshee, the kodiak is useless as far
;>as I am concerned.

My Kodiak heater worked a whole lot better after I had the heater core 
boild out and removed that restrictive valve in the line.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:16:21 -0700
Subject: Re: HELP!  Valve Adj. Update

Peter,

You might check the gap on your points. A loose gap there can create a noise
similar to what you describe.
John

Peter M. Kaskan wrote:

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:20:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Extra heaters

Kirk,

I have to ask - why do you find the Kodiak unusable? I'll be honest, mine can
easily cook me right out of the cab of my 109 even in deepest Winter.

Before you condemn it and start installing other heaters, you might want to try
backflushing the Kodiak's core, as well as moving the supply hose that runs
through the valve straight to the heater core. The Kodiak control valves had a
notorious habit of slipping and allowing just a trickle of water through, making
you think they were working when they weren't.

The other thing to check is that the flap valve on the air intake is actually
opening. If small objects aren't being blown about the cab by the heater it
isn't open.....8*). Seriously, there is a very strong blower on a Kodiak - if
you aren't getting torrential airflow that could be part of the difficulty. If
that's the case I'd suggest losing the multi-speed switch for a toggle - the
resistance elements on those switches are more trouble then they are worth.

Lastly, do you have the proper thermostat in your engine for a Rover? If you've
got no thermpostat or a standard American type bodged in there that could be a
big part of your poor heater performance.

Email me - I'm sure we can work out what's wrong.

                         ajr

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From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:26:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Extra heaters

Kirk,

It's been my experience that your question is way too broad. There have been
soo many attempts at more heat. For instance, I'm doing an engine swap for a
guy who has a VW Bug heater mounted just inside the driver foot well/tunnel
cover. An other cenario invoves a wall mounted space heater "disk" that I
found at Home Depot. It is about 12" diam. and can mounted with an
insulating back to the rear bulk-head for passenger warming.

As I said, your question is tough due to the vast number of "jerry-riggs"
that have been utilized.

Good Luck,

John Wood

Kirk Hillman wrote:

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:55:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Valves Adjusted

Following this discussion on valve noise. If the noise does not go away the
problem is most likely in the tappet slides. Experience rebuilding motors
has shown us wear takes place in the iron slide the tappet reciprocates in.
The wear is often not apparent when examining the slide as the most wear
occurs half way down the slide and cannot be measured by putting a vernier
across the mouth of the slide.

I have known of cases where the slides and guides were mixed up during an
overhaul and the mismatched tappets ran quietly until the high spots wore
off and a great many rattles started.

This tappet rattle can be confused with rocker noise but is quite easily
diagnosed by putting ones ear to a rod resting on the area just above the
camshaft - the noise is more prounounced there than at the top of the head.

The fix is to take the head off and put in new tappet, roller and guide
assemblies (507829) these cost about $20.00 each and go a long way towards
making the motor quieter

Ray

----------
> From: Peter M. Kaskan <pmk11@cornell.edu>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Valves Adjusted
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:40 PM
> Thanks for all you help with my valves.  I went through and did it again.
> Same result.  Clackety clack clack...  Mechanic said it dosen't sound too
> bad.  Much smoother than before!!  Doing the 700 mile thing tommorrow.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> bad.  Much smoother than before!!  Doing the 700 mile thing tommorrow.
> I'm heading to MA, Worcester/Boston area in particular.  I leave
tommorrow

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:07:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Vacuum advance

Yes Dave it does. They are quite expensive (Ours are $60 others may have
for less) Consider a new distributor $150 (Ducillier) or a used diaphram
(ugh) $25 Ray

----------
> From: david hope <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Vacuum advance
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 5:30 AM
> I tested the vacuum advance on my 64llA today.  Following the

instructions
> in one of the many maintenance books I have purchased, I removed the
rubber
> tube from the carburetor, took the distributor cap off, sucked on the
tube

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From: lndrvr@ldd.net (BRIAN WILLOUGHBY)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:05:10 -0600
Subject: RSOVs

Back when Land-Rover won the contract to supply these vehicles to the
Rangers, "The Times" (a.k.a. "London Times") ran an article about them
complete with picture and a rather boastful headline.  I ran off a copy of
it to show to a friend who was in the Reserves who was convinced such a
thing could have never happened.  I showed him the proof and he was not
pleased that his beloved Hummers could have been bypassed.  Anyhow, I still
have the article somewhere and can see when it was published if anyone is
interested in going to the library and looking it up for themselves.

Brian Willoughby
1960 Land-Rover Series II 88" S.W. "The Lady Eleanor"

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:46:34 -0600
Subject: Tach on a diesel

Is it possible to fit some kind of aftermarket tach to a diesel engine?
This may sound naive, but I have never seen one for that application.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:54:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Tach on a diesel

Yes, a tach can be fitted to a Diesel, but the only ones I have ever seen have
either clocked off the alternator's AC signal or have been mechanical and driven
off the oil pump/camshaft.

I'm sure such a thing is available aftermarket - just not sure where.

                         ajr

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From: "Steve Mace" <steve@solwise.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:13:27 -0000
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

The Official LR Service Manuals?

On 25 Nov 98, at 6:51, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> I don't want to get involved in any fights, but what is the green book?  
> I have a Hayes TR3-4 Manual that has a green cover.  Are you guys 
> refering to a Hayes LR manual?

Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245

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From: "Bill Fishel" <bfishel@cisnet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 10:22:26 -0500
Subject: sheep&mice

*Now lets get this straight,  you need a new sheep for your lap and  the
top of
*your lawn has mice..... so what's  the problem with a wet drive shaft?  :

 *cheers           John and Muddy

Frank
I can see the Pete Wilford cartoon already.
What was wrong with PKV's propshaft?
Bill

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 12:50:39 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Bushing Madness 

Tim.
Yes I have lots of issues. I'm glad you find them amusing. I do too as do may 
others. I hope you guys are getting some work done in between bouts of laughing 
at me and my *stupid* ideas. 
I have indeed spent quite a bit of time under my vehicle (and next to it, and 
above it even) and I have seen bushings in all different states of disrepair. I 
see from your last post that you are using polybushes from a jeep. I'm glad you 
are advising people with the stock bushing/shackle/spring configuration to make 
modifications to the factory shackle bolt torque setting to match something 
that is based on a custom platform that you have derived. You oughtta have told 
them this at the beginning of your arguments. It also sounds like the 
difference in your ride and articulation has more to do with the spring mods 
than the shackles.

Please when you say "I did it differently and so should you," don't forget to 
mention the fact that you are also not using the stock set up. 

As for my personal issues, I am pretty much an open book. Yes I can be a total 
prick, and I'm quite good at it. I suppose I have alot of things many people 
don't and should be grateful for that (friends, family, a good job, 3 square 
and a fair maiden by my side) but I am not satisfied in life and I am indeed 
full of piss and vinegar. I am not ashamed of anything I have written here or 
elsewhere, and no attempt to make me so will change that. It just isn't in my 
vocabulary. Maybe it isn't appropriate to this list but that's something we are 
both guilty of here, and it won't be the last time I am sure. 

I will not repsond to the list any more messages regarding my personal issues 
or spring bushings. If you don't feel vindicated and would like to insult me 
some more you may email me off list and we can  "take this outside". 

later
da"I wan't turkey"veb/green"me too"HELL
arlington VA 

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:53:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Tach on a diesel

At 10:46 25/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Is it possible to fit some kind of aftermarket tach to a diesel engine?
>This may sound naive, but I have never seen one for that application.

Very easy. VDO makes a nice illuminated 2 inch diameter one that matches
the other instruments on a 90. Cost of mine was 66GBP. I got it from K&J
Slavin in the UK.
Allan
Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute (CANARI)
Vieux Fort, St. Lucia, West Indies. Tel. + 758 454 6060  Fax. + 758 454 5188

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:58:50 -1000
Subject: Re: Valves Adjusted

>I'm heading to MA, Worcester/Boston area in particular.  I leave tommorrow
>about 930 from Ithaca, traveling 88 to 90

I assume that's Routes not MPH?
Have a safe trip
Pete

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:03:57 -1000
Subject: Re: I think I need a distributor???

>> << Seems kind-of sloppy to me, but why would this only affect the #3
>>  cylinder???? >>
>> Well, the dizzy is kind of loose, but it wouldn't affect the #3 cylinder
>> alone.

I had a similar problem with a Ser III.  I do not remember which cylinder
but same symptoms.  We measured the points gap a TDC for each cylinder and
it was way out of spec on the miss-firing cylinder.  Replaced the dizzy and
problem was solved.. Don't know if it will help but wanted to pass the tip
along.
Aloha
Pete

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:05:36 EST
Subject: Re: Valves Adjusted

In a message dated 11/25/98 10:02:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
phope@hawaii.rr.com writes:

<< traveling 88 to 90 >>
Gee, I thought he meant that he was going over a route that was so rough that
by the time he changed parts, bodged and fixed the rig his 88" would be a D90.

GROAN
Zack Arbios

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:31:39 -1000
Subject: Re: SOV's

>How depressing that they are commonly referred to by their users as "gun
>jeeps" ugh now i have to wash my hands!

How true.  But we also refer to the armored HMMVV's used for reconnaissance
and convoy escort as 'gun jeeps' or 'gun ships'.  The troop/supply carriers,
with the tall tilt covered cargo bed are called 'bitches'.  go figure
Aloha
Pete

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:36:39 -0600
Subject: RE: Tach on a diesel

>Very easy. VDO makes a nice illuminated 2 inch diameter one that matches
>the other instruments on a 90. Cost of mine was 66GBP. I got it from K&J
>Slavin in the UK.
>Allan

Allan, what is it conected to, the alternator?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:53:30 EST
Subject: Re: Valves Adjusted

In a message dated 25-11-98 13:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
phope@hawaii.rr.com writes:

<< >I'm heading to MA, Worcester/Boston area in particular.  I leave tommorrow
 >about 930 from Ithaca, traveling 88 to 90
 I assume that's Routes not MPH?
 Have a safe trip
 Pete >>
Hey Pete,

How does one travel the "Interstate" Highways in Hawaii?  Or for that matter
the "Intrastates"??  By "SeaRover"?   8^)

Best Holiday Wishes - maybe you can get to the PTA sometime for some 4
wheeling.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:53:53 EST
Subject: Re: sheep&mice

This thread is starting to remind me of the old children's rhyme -

Hickory dickory dock, two mice ran up the clock.
The clock struck one - but the other got away...

Sorry - its a slow day here at work.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:36:48 -0000
Subject: Re: Rear axle leaking

or, better, replace it with the later 110 type

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:12:27 -0000
Subject: Re: spring bushings

more like a blowtorch

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+            
     I !__|  [_]|_\___   
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV 
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:14:53 -0000
Subject: Re: spottings

The unit looking after security of US air bases here in the UK bought a
bunch of Land Rovers after they found that Hummers were not a great deal of
use patrolling narrow English country lanes around the bases...

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:14:47 -0500
Subject: Re: I think I need a distributor???

<< I have replaced the cylinder head (old was cracked), spark plugs, 
ignition
wires, cap, rotor, points, condenser, and have tried swapping plugs and
wires around >>

 Just a thought, you do not seem to have replaced the coil. They do not 
last forever (in fact the oil filled type are known to leak & 
intermittently break down internally). They do not cost very much, 
certainly less than a distributor.
 
 My coil was mounted vertically but inverted due to various relays etc 
fitted on the bulkhead by the Coastguard. I had an intermittent misfire 
 which new plugs, points and leads failed to cure. When I was replacing 
the coil lead ("King Lead") I found it to be oily at the coil end. Took 
off the coil and shook it. Sure enough you could hear liquid moving due 
to the oil loss. 16.95 UK Pounds later I fitted the new coil and now 
all is well. 
 Paul

 Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:18

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT  (1984)
 

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From: Antonio Sanches de Magalhaes <asmagal@oa.fc.up.pt>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:43:45 +0000
Subject: subscribe

subscribe

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 11:41:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

>The Official LR Service Manuals?

Green???  My set of genuine factory manuals have white covers.  Is this a 
different set?
Mine covers series II & IIA.

;
;>On 25 Nov 98, at 6:51, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

;>> I don't want to get involved in any fights, but what is the green 
book?  
;>> I have a Hayes TR3-4 Manual that has a green cover.  Are you guys 
;>> refering to a Hayes LR manual?

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:44:15 EST
Subject: Re: SOV's

In a message dated 98-11-25 13:35:31 EST, you write:

<< The troop/supply carriers,
 with the tall tilt covered cargo bed are called 'bitches'.  go figure >>

Ok, I'll figure...It's fun for the Sarge to say "troops, mount your bitches"?
Probably good for morale, too.

Enzo (must be bad humor day here on the LRO list)

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:51:42 EST
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

In a message dated 98-11-25 14:43:10 EST, you write:

<< The Official LR Service Manuals?
 Green???  My set of genuine factory manuals have white covers.  Is this a 
 different set?
 Mine covers series II & IIA.
  >>

  I've got the 2 part II, IIa manual.  Bought it last year from AB or RN and
it's green.  

Yours is white?  What the hell's wrong with you?
Enzo(sorry, just wanted to continue the flame nature of this thread)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Brian G. Holmes" <b-sholmes@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:11:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

The green book is published by Brooklands Books under license from Rover.
Cheers,
Brian

----------
> From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:51 AM
> In a message dated 98-11-25 14:43:10 EST, you write:
> << The Official LR Service Manuals?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> << The Official LR Service Manuals?
>  Green???  My set of genuine factory manuals have white covers.  Is this
a 
>  different set?
>  Mine covers series II & IIA.
>   I've got the 2 part II, IIa manual.  Bought it last year from AB or RN
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 11:51 AM
> In a message dated 98-11-25 14:43:10 EST, you write:
and

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 12:18:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Dreaded spring bushings with confusion

><< The Official LR Service Manuals?
;>> Green???  My set of genuine factory manuals have white covers.  Is 
this a 
;>> different set?
;>> Mine covers series II & IIA.

;>  I've got the 2 part II, IIa manual.  Bought it last year from AB or 
RN and
;>it's green.  

;>Yours is white?  What the hell's wrong with you?
;>Enzo(sorry, just wanted to continue the flame nature of this thread)

My white covered manuals came with an 88 I purchased in 1976.  I guess 
Rover just changed the colour of the manuals while I wasn't looking.  
Maybe when they changed the logo from silver & black to green & yellow?  
At least now I know what people are talking about when that say " the 
green book" or "the green bible"  Thanks for your clarification.

Obligitory flame statemnt follows:

License plate frame on rear of a U.S. series rig "Yes I know they made 
Land Rovers after 74, but who gives a shit?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:03:03 -0800
Subject: Unsprung vs sprung weight (was spring bushings)

To the person who asked what the difference is, unsprung weight is the total
weight of all the vehicle's components that are NOT riding on the springs.
Wheels, tires, brake drums or rotors, calipers, etc. are examples of
unsprung weight.  The axles and differentials of Land Rovers are unsprung
weight.  Sprung weight is the total weight of all the vehicle's components
that ARE riding on the springs: body, frame, engine, transmission, etc.
There are advantages to reducing a vehicle's unsprung rate, but not being an
automotive engineer I'm not really sure what they are.  A  good example of a
manufacturer's effort to reduce unsprung weight can be found on the Jaguar
E-Type.  The rear brake rotors and calipers were mounted inboard, to either
side of the differential, instead of on the hubs.  The E-Type has
independent rear suspension, and because the differential was bolted to the
rear subframe, it was part of the vehicle's "sprung" weight.  Mounting the
brake components to the differential make them sprung weight as well,
instead of unsprung weight which they would have been had they been mounted
to the wheel hubs.

In the case of the E-Type, this makes the rear brakes very expensive to
service, as I believe the rear subframe has to be removed from the vehicle
to get at them.  I don't think changing pads is any big deal, but if you
have to remove the rotors, and possibly the calipers as well, it involves
some major, time-consuming work.  I don't know if the E-Type's rear brake
placement gives a big performance or handling advantage, as no other cars
that I'm aware of have adapted this practice.  Or it may be that it's a
great idea but the cost of servicing the components offsets the performance
advantage of reducing the unsprung weight.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:07:42 -0800
Subject: RE: Unsprung vs sprung weight (was spring bushings)

In reference to E-Type brakes, maybe Land Rover mounted it's e-brake on the
back of the transmission in an effort at reducing unsprung weight and
improving handling and performance too! :-)     And Land Rover did it way
back in '48, long before Jaguar!  ;-)

(All in good natured sarcasm)

Paul in Victoria

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: andy Smith <andy@bobstar.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:21:51 +0000
Subject: Re: Mice

Frank,
      I got hold of a m*crosoft intellimouse at a show a few months ago
for a fiver. Its the best mouse I have ever owned, the wheel in the
place of the middle button works really well in programs catering for it
and the mechanism is pretty robust too.

-- 
andy Smith
1965 ser2a V8 ccvt/road. Only running on 4 cylinders 8(
1971 ser2a 2.25 road. Only ever ran on 4 8)
Tamworth Staffs.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:20:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Bushing Madness

From: INDIO2 <Indio2@cris.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:05:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Bushing Madness

>To Marin F - I always read your messages with interest and I respect your
opinions.  I agree with a lot of your post but personally have not
experienced the type of wear that the mechanic you mentioned did.  On my
vehicles I have always greased the shackle bolts on install, used thin
fender washers to protect the plates, and adjusted the bolts to a very
close tolerance.

One thing I cannot attest to is whether the mechanic at my friend's
commercial vehicle hire company put fender washers between the shackle and
the ends of the bushings.  My guess is he didn't, but I don't know.  I know
some of the worn out shackles I examined had circular grooves worn into them
which would imply that there were no washers installed.  As for greasing the
shackle bolts before installation, I think this is a good idea regardless of
whether you torque the bolts and nuts per Land Rover's procedure or not.
Greasing the bolts, or spraying them with LPS-3 or brushing on an anti-seize
compound, will help keep them from rusting and will ensure an easy removal
if it becomes necessary at a later date.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: Heavy duty isn't always best (Bushing Madness)

From: INDIO2 <Indio2@cris.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:05:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Bushing Madness

>While the leaf spring design is dated it is also strong and easy to
modify.  Just look at the points that are working against spring travel -
interleaf friction, overly tight leaf clamps, binding shackle bushings,
shocks that are too heavy duty, etc.  The Series really can have a decent
ride and articulation if these concerns are addressed.

The comment here about heavy duty shocks on a Series Land Rover is very
valid.  Back in the 1970s and '80s (and perhaps still today) there were two
types of OEM shocks available for the Series, "regular" and "heavy-duty."
The heavy-duty shocks were, I believe, standard on the 109, but, like the
109's leaf springs, they could be fitted to an 88.  There is a tendency
among people who buy and use off-road vehicles to go the "heavy duty" route
on every component they possibly can: springs, shocks, wheels, bumpers, you
name it.  The theory is that the stronger and tougher it is, the better.

Not long after buying my Series III I thought it would be a neat idea to
replace the original shocks (which were fine) with the OEM heavy-duty model.
Tom Gannon, the proprietor of the original Atlantic British in California,
strongly advised against it, saying that the ride would become extremely
harsh.  On his advice, I stuck with the as-delivered shocks.  When they
finally needed replacement after a trip to the Yukon in 1977, I installed
the OEM "standard" shocks again, as I couldn't see any reason to go to the
heavier model given the way I use the vehicle.  A few years later, I had the
opportunity to ride in a Series III 88 that had been fitted with the OEM
"heavy" shocks, and I'm here to tell you that Tom Gannon was right.  The
ride was extremely harsh, even on pavement. It took a lot of the fun out of
driving or riding in that particular vehicle.  Obviously, if you're going to
be hauling heavy loads in a 109, or even an 88, or doing extreme off-road
driving, heavy-duty shocks would probably be a good idea.  But for average
on- and off-road driving, particularly in an 88, I highly recommend staying
with the softer, standard shocks.  The ride will be better, and you'll enjoy
driving your vehicle a lot more.

I did eventually fit 109 leaf springs (with the helper leaves) to the rear
of my 88 when the originals finally got tired, as at the time I was towing a
boat with the vehicle.  When the front springs got tired, however, I fitted
the standard 88 springs again, and all four shocks remained the standard OEM
variety.  So I guess what I'm saying is don't always assume that the "heavy
duty" version of a suspension component is automatically better.  It may be
for some applications, but it won't be for others.  As to the longevity of
"standard" components, I'm still running the second set of OEM standard
shocks on my Land Rover, the ones I fitted after my trip to the Yukon in
1977, and they appear to be holding up just fine.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:22:10 EST
Subject: Toe-In ARRGH

Hi all,
Now back with you after digging through your 600+ messages that accumulated in
the week I was basically computer-less (finally retired the Mac Classic--love
the new ThinkPad).  About 300 of these messages must've been about bushings,
which is fine b/c I keep running out to the rover loosening, tightening,
loosening, tightening my brand new front bushes and shackles as I sense the
tide of public opinion changing.

Toe-In:  Tried to adjust it the other day after 3 days of PB-Blaster
application and use of hammer and 24" pipe wrench.  No dice--should I just
spring for new ball joints and bar and install w/ liberal coatings of never-
seize?

Bill

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: INDIO2 <Indio2@cris.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:12:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Bushing Burnout

Dave - sorry you are taking this so hard - I really do hope you have a
nice holiday.  To everyone involved with the bushing thread - I also have
bushing burnout and am heading out for Thanksgiving.  For those who wrote
asking about the spring mods and urethane bushings mentioned in my last
post - I have and am taking photos of everything and will post to my web
site when I finally get around to uploading it - new ISP.  

Also to clear something up (no negativity intended) my measurements,
calculations, experiences, etc that are part of this thread come only from
using the standard LR rubber bushings and shackles.  The urethane idea
came about a few months ago when I took apart one of the rear springs to
rebuild/modify it and decided that I wanted something better than the
stock bushings.  My whole spring rebuild/urethane setup is going on now -
one of the springs is sitting apart in my living room as I write!  (By the
way this is how I have so many measurements - I had to make sure
everything would fit with the stock spaces and travel).  After a fit
of one spring I was very pleased and reported the results in my last post.
Urethane bushings are an entirely different animal - my setup does not
even use inner sleeves and the shackle plates are welded to each other -
requires a whole different discussion (no way)!  Have a great holiday all.

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:58:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Toe-In ARRGH

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 Jarvis64@aol.com wrote:

:
:Toe-In:  Tried to adjust it the other day after 3 days of PB-Blaster
:application and use of hammer and 24" pipe wrench.  No dice--should I just
:spring for new ball joints and bar and install w/ liberal coatings of never-
:seize?

Before you do something silly like buy new parts, try a little heat.  A
heating and cooling cycle may well make things just come apart.

David

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:11:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange front hubs

Well oi  no`s thaat lover, oo ever eard of a Devon nastie. Ever since they
opened that toll bridge across the Tamar those little buggers have been
sneaking  over and mating with the meat and potato poys.

John McMaster wrote:

> Oggie is Cornish ;-)
> john

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:16:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Toe-In ARRGH

Take it off and roll it about on the floor or any hard surface while tapping the
threaded part with a hammer. Don`t put cuts and gouges in the rod.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:32:07 -0700
Subject: Re: RSOVs

Brian,

If it's not too much trouble I'd like the info on the article. It sounds like
these guys might be a great article for our club newsletter.

Thanks,
K. John Wood
Solihull Society President

BRIAN WILLOUGHBY wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:36:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Tach on a diesel

Luis,
As Alan stated it can be done in those ways. You might try to source one out
of a Commercial Truck parts place. In my town this is handled by Big A auto
parts.

John

Luis Manuel Gutierrez wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:38:38 -0700
Subject: Series guy in CO

Hey Colorado contingent.

A fellow LRO and Solihull Society member is in Denver for the Holiday.
THis guy is from TX, has a Series and has never seen another up close.

We'd like to get together at Zang's Brewery on Sat. Nov. 28th at 12:00
noon.

If you are interested show up or give me a call beforehand at
303/774-9225

Happy Thanksgiving

John Wood

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:33:20 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: BMW X5 

Marketing/PR/market research dontcha just love 'em?
With apologies (but not much) to anyone on this list who earns their money
in that way have they ever EVER been right?
How many of you have been researched about how you vote, what sort of car
you buy, if you prefer black tyres to puce?
(I mean 'proper' (sick) (sic) research as in, "we asked 1265 people and from
that deduced that 57.7658 per cent of the population prefer sex with
animals"  not someone selling you something)

WE are different, we do not conform, we do not wear grey suits (unless we
have to, in the office to screw some more cash out of the system so we can
go out and nonconform a bit more) we do not buy our motor vehicles because
of fashion, or colour.
We do not belong in surveys.

I remember some years ago a US presidential election where, as usual, the
pollsters added (in very tiny print - but look, it's always there) that
their calculations could be out by plus or minus 3 per cent. As one, very
fringe candidate had attracted only 2% of the voters did that mean that he
did not exist?

rant over, sorry someone just slipped that soapbox under my feet

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:53:33 -1000
Subject: Re: Valves Adjusted

>Hey Pete,
>How does one travel the "Interstate" Highways in Hawaii?  Or for that

matter
>the "Intrastates"??  By "SeaRover"?   8^)

I kinda wondered my self how come the Island of Oahu has 3 Interstate
highways.  The longest is maybe 20 miles.

>Best Holiday Wishes - maybe you can get to the PTA sometime for some 4
>wheeling.

I do not know what the PTA is, I am pretty sure its not the Parent/Teacher
thang haha
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:59:38
Subject: leaking

>I've been looking at that little thing with a suspicious mind  on the past
>days, but how do you check it? Just suck from it to see if air(?) comes out?
>Or there is a more scientific method?

Luis, unscrew that little piece of crap and throw it away. You can make a
better breather using brake flexable hoses and tubing. The flex hose should
screw into the same hole. This is how I did mine (front and rear), no more
clogging and almost no more leaking hubs.

Jim Wolf

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "jos de vries" <ct915434@student.citg.tudelft.nl>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:50:41 +0100
Subject: Re: Unsprung vs sprung weight (was spring bushings)

Faure, Marin wrote:
> I don't know if the E-Type's rear brake placement gives a big performance
or handling >advantage, as no other cars that I'm aware of have adapted
this practice. 

front of the 2CV Citroėn

also a great car.

gr.Jos de Vries
Santana 109 SW '71 D
Land Rover 88 ex-mod '75 P

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:01:58 -0500
Subject: RE: Tach on a diesel

Luis asked - what is it conected to, the alternator?

Si, pero hay otras. One to the light switch for illumination, and the
counter housing is the earth (ground) for that. Then power to the tach
itself, when "ignition" is on; then a third to vehicle earth, and finally a
lead through the bulkhead to terminal W on the back of the alternator. On
mine it was covered with a plastic cap and is hidden below the main lead
from the alternator. The W stamped on the alt. casing was only visible with
a mirror , and looked like an M. The circuit diagram and connection
instructions came from the Slavin's mechanic - there were no details in the
box.  
By the way - aren't you glad you don't have bushings in your springs? 
Allan

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute (CANARI)
Vieux Fort, St. Lucia, West Indies. Tel. + 758 454 6060  Fax. + 758 454 5188

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:04:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Series guy in CO

K. John Wood wrote:
 
= Hey Colorado contingent.
 
= A fellow LRO and Solihull Society member is in Denver for the Holiday.
= This guy is from TX, has a Series and has never seen another up close.
= We'd like to get together at Zang's Brewery on Sat. Nov. 28th at 12:00
= noon.
 
Or everyone could go 4-wheeling with the Evergreen contingent, 1 St.
Mountain Division, which is going to do Metberry and Longwater over by
Woodland Park. Don't know the time yet though.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SailorBob <sailorb@netvision.net.il>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:29:34 +0200
Subject: Tdi 300

Is the Tdi 300 or similar engine availible in the US?

Thanks,

Robert

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: kiotee@mcn.net (Roy Caldwell)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:45:10 -1000
Subject: Re: SOV's

Actually, since a close relative is a Ranger and now a Green Beret, they
mostly call the Rovers, Rovers.  When I went through Benning on my way to
Bosnia, I shot a roll of film of the SOVs in a maintenance yard.  They have
three versions.  The squad gun truck or attack Rover, Ambulance (two
versions, one open, one closed) and the Commo truck.  I had a chance to
really take a good look.  Helped I was in uniform and a fast talking army
photojournalist.  All reports I have heard from actual users is that they
are very nice.  Well suited for the roll the Ranger Bats use them for.

Later, Roy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: kiotee@mcn.net (Roy Caldwell)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:09:34 -1000
Subject: Re: SOV's

After 11,000 miles in a Hummer, on all types of terrain, these are my
observations.

If the fiberglass hood developes the slightest crack, gap or failer of the
exsposed rubber seal your cooling is compromised.

The fuel tank is a PVC type plastic.  In a combat vehicle!  Go figure!

The transfer case is chain driven and is a bitch to shift.

The auto trans, when properly used is pretty good.

The turogue range is at 3,200 before you get any real benefit from the engine.

The inboard disk brakes are unprotected and collect random bits of dirt,
stick and rocks, between the rotor and housing.

The inboard gear reduction cases are outdated technology. I saw a photo the
safety office had from an accident in Bosnia.  The gear case locked-up and
ripped the wheel and half-shaft off the vehicle.  Doing some research the
safety officer found that is not un-common for the Hummer.

The thing is very large for a four seat vehicle.

But, all that aside, it does do the job.  It's a pig.  But if you take care
of the basic driver preventive services and checks, they will last.

My Hummer new, 4 door-canvas top, cost $26,250.  Her name was Driving Ms.
Daisey.  Long story on why the name.  In Bosnia, the army was just getting
the heavy hummer, uparmored.  We called them the Iron Pigs.  They did work.
While I was in country some mafia types put an anti-tank mine in a pot hole
just prior to a patrol returning to base camp.  Took the entire front off
back to the firewall.  Only the engine block was remaining.  It also took
off the 50 Cal and mount.  Luckily the gunner had just dropped down out of
the hatch to warm up when they hit the mine.  All three survived with minor
over pressure concussions.

Roy - 46Q Army Photojournalist, Saudi Arabia 90/91, Bosnia 96/97

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Skhar1927@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:11:27 EST
Subject: the bushings beef

thanks to both daveb and ted for taking their beef offlist.  it was getting
tiresome.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Skhar1927@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:16:08 EST
Subject: bushings beef

i meant to say tim.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:35:12 +1100
Subject: 96 Discovery - Instrument Cluster Lighting

Lloyd Perrin asks:

>Problem: How do you remove the globe from these buttons ?
>Black facing cap comes off easily enough. But I can't find an
>"easy" way to get to the globe.  Any suggestions ?

Lloyd, I haven't seen these but they sound like normal electronic systems
globes.  Use a bit of plastic tubing, slide it over the globe and pull the
globe out.

But then, I could be wrong.  You might need toask the coiler list.

Ron

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:34:04 +0200
Subject: The lighter side of...

Hi Guys,

Hennie Rautenbach on the za-lro list just posted this joke:

The Mitsubishi Motor Corp engineers have a way of testing to see if 
their Pajero's are air-tight.

They would put a cat in the vehicle and close it up. They would
check the car again in 24 hours. If the cat was dead, it
passed the test.

Land Rover  heard about this and decided to try it. They put a
cat in one of their Defenders and closed it up. When they checked
it again in 24 hours, the cat was gone.

It had us in stitches in the office this morning so hopefully it'll help
drive away the bushing-blues.

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Oliver_Gottlob@t-online.de (Oliver Gottlob)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:05:15 +0000
Subject: Re: Valve adjustment

Hello Peter,

I“had a similar problem on my 2,25l Diesel. But it was not the valve clearence
The reson was a faulty injector. The injector doesn“t spry the fuel properly.
And it was leaking. So the explosion in the cylinder comes not to the right
time and the engine makes stange noises.

I will prefer to check the injectors in your local diesel specialist workshop
(Most time the tractor (agricultur) workshop are good expirienced)

I“cant send email from my work, but I can recive email there. So I“am
listening to the list most times but for a answer I must do this from home.

Oli

1976 Landrover 109 Diesel 2,25l "slow and smokey"

dg5dbv@qsl.net (home) callcenter@atelco.de (office)
http://www.qsl.net/dg5dbv

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