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From: Marc Rengers <mr@b4m.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:09:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Smashed heaterplug by cylinder ?? READY ??

Well....

Took the head of, pulled the valves out and installed new hotspots, 
valvestem-oilseals, headgasket and more gaskets where oil came thru 

ckrankshaftbearingholder-seals).

Could not find the cause for my smashed heaterplugs.... I think I blew 
the loose things in the heaterchamber while starting the engine without 
the heaterplugs.

The engine is still running fine, for some oilleaks and black smoke taken 
as granted.

Quite an heavy thing pulling out of the car on your own.

Oh, and don't forget to mount the oilbypass at the back of the head, or 
be prepared for some oil spillage. Never knew a landy leaked that much 
oil at once......

Thanks for the help and advice I got.

Marc Rengers
Westeremden, Holland
mr@b4m.com
0596-551334 (home)
050-3666761 (work)
06-51550521 (GSM)
06-59111461 (pager)
http://www.minerva.fk.hanze.nl/landrover/index.html

           --_                                --_         
      _____|__\___                    ________|__\___     
      | _  |   |_ |}                  |  _    |   |_ |}   
      "(_)"""""(_)"                   ""(_)"""""""(_)"
 1978 SIII 88" 2.25 diesel       1968  109"  SIIa 2.25 petrol
     reg. 47-DB-13                     reg. unknown    
      marine blue                 green (15 layers of paint)

also subscribed to LAND ROVER Owner International (great magazine)

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:47:43 -0400
Subject: Re: spring bushings

DNDANGER@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 98-11-19 18:37:30 EST, you write:
>  I recommend coating the shackle bolts with some good synthetic grease
>  before installing.  Then tighten with nylon lock nuts until the assembly
>  is secure while insuring that the shackles can still swing without too
>  much resistance.
> If the bushings were meant to work in this way they would have been supplied
> with grease fittings. (We aren't dealing with jeeps here you know?)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> result in rapid excessive wear of the shackle pins and bushings.
> Bill Lawrence

For those who insist that the rubber bushing is there only to damp noise and
vibration consider that it would be the only place on a series Land Rover where
such an attempt was made other than the motot and tranny mounts.
Bill is correct about the the purpose of the bushes and their fitting. If the 
pins
and bush sleeves were intended to move there would be provision for lubrication.
The bushes will survive extreme flexing offroad for a long time if the spring 
are
installed correctly. I know this from personal experience, my rover spends most 
of
its life offroad on the farm and is usually over loaded.
  John and Muddy

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 98 08:59:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Welder 

  >If your searching for a good welder you should be sure to get one that
>has a variable heat setting not the 4 setting switch but the infinate 
>setting one.  I heard that builders squares sold one.   I ...often wish 
>I had more heat settings. .

I highly recommend getting the gas setup as well,, and as stated above a mchine 
that has infinite heat settings. otherwise you willl never be able to dial it 
in just right. A reall good welder (person) may be able to compensate, but not 
a hack like me. I did floor pans and some fender work on my Volvo 122 using 
both types of welders, and the fully adjustable mig was 100% better than the 
little P.O.S. toy I started with. The mig was a century brand that wwas about 
$500 including the gas. worth every penny IMO.

later
dave

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 98 09:35:36 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: spring bushings 

>The leaf spring on the Series needs to extend as it flattens out
um, dude? they *all* do
>  Urethane bushings can be used and some people even weld a piece of 
>steel tubing between the shackle plates 
not required on the standard LR shackle. they are short and thick enough that 
they won't flex. longer military shackles have the center bit though.
>If the Rover manual recommends cranking down hard on the shackle nuts 
>then cross that part out. 
yes, there is some sage advice. you just don't get it do you? metal on 
metal equals *wear*. I've seen it. bushings are not designed to wear out 
like that. Any play you introduce into the equation will soon increase, I 
assure you. Just put the two hemispheres of your brain togethher for a 
minute and think about it.
> Those rubber bushings are very thin - especially compared to other 4x4s. 
ugh. I don't believe i am reading this drivel. Are you saying other 4x4's 
are built better more robust than a Series LR? you are out of your 
flipping mind, pal. 
> Even if the shackle nuts are tightened while the springs are under load 
>the rubber will be hard pressed to have enough elasticity to accept the 
>full motion of the shackles - especially under severe off-road use.
so I take it you are an enginner specializing in the feild of elastomers? 
othewrwise how would you know this? simple intuition. I suspect you are 
out of your jurisdiction here, detective.
> The rubber in the bushings will be unduly stressed and because they will 
>be acting directly against the spring movement the ride will suffer. 
only if you don't *follow the effin directions*
> I suspect under the extreme stress the shackle bolts will still end up 
>rotating in the sleeves to allow the springs to flex.
think about it. after the spring goes flat it starts compressing the other way, 
pulls the shackle *back*. doesn't really happen on series rovers though what 
with the bumpstops and all. they don't really articualte alot either.
>The bushings ...isolate road vibration and allow...flex as the springs 
>go through motion. not...an active part of the suspension.  Let the leaf 
>springs absorb...impacts and the shock absorbers dampen...oscillations - 
>if the shackles are over torqued the result will be a lousy ride and 
>premature bushing failure.
do you own a LR. You just described the ride quality perfectly. Have you ever 
looked at the size of these springs? they *transmit* impacts...seriously 
though, mine rides nice and soft. very comfortable. the joy of tired springs.
bushings were all god when I got her and the pins were seized in the holes.
>I recommend coating the shackle bolts with some good synthetic grease 
>before installing.  Then tighten with nylon lock nuts until the assembly 
>is secure while insuring that the shackles can still swing without too 
>much resistance.
yes, that is exactly what you should do. I do hope you like replacing them 
often.
listen to the wise members of the list, and change your evil ways. obstinance 
and ignorance wil get you nowhere with these vehicles. tenacity on the other 
hand, clarity of thought and above all else, an open mind, will bag you many 
miles of motoring pleasure. SOmeday you can tell your kids about how you once 
had to change all the damn bushings in the frame...the front one's a real bitch 
too, have fun!

later
daveb/greenHELL
arlington VA

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:23:00 -0500
Subject: Pressure bleeders

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

>Tell you what I did - cheap, simple and effective, though I can't take
>credit for the idea.....

>Take an old reservoir cap and drill a hole in the top to take a tubeless
>tyre valve. Slather the gap and lip on the tubeless tyre valve with sealer
>and set it into the hole in the aforementioned cap. Take your tyre valve
>tool and remove the valve from the center of the tyre valve.

That's kinda my invention, though I used a simple hose barb on the
reservoir cap.  BTW, the plastic cap for the dual master also fits the
single (clutch/brake) "can" style on older IIa's and such, though you'll
need two of the rubber cap rings.  I used a 1 quart plastic garden sprayer
with a broken nozzle.  Grand total of $1.93 invested in the hose barb.  You
only need 5 or 8 pounds of pressure, so a couple of pumps on the sprayer
does it handily.  Take it easy with any other air source so you don't blow
out something...like that cheesy passtic reservoir that has started to
craze from UV degradation, for instance.  The beauty of this system is that
you can pour an additional can of fluid into the sprayer so you're always
replenishing the system.  Just remember to relieve the pressure first, lest
you hose down the vicinity with brake fluid once you're done. 

Here's another "invention" of mine...something that makes bushing
insertion/removal a breeze.  (Now, where've I heard *that* thread??)  Take
a suitable-sized 1/2" drive socket and weld it to a pointed .401 shank
Parker tool.  Fit it to your air hammer.  The point keeps it centered in
the bushing center sleeve.  If you dress the bushing hole with a brake
cylinder hone and lube up with anti-seize, you can refit bushes in one or
two seconds.  The trick is finding the perfect-sized socket; you can't just
go out and get a 13/16 or whatever, as different manufacturers have
different wall thicknesses.  I found a no-namo Chinese-made one in a
bargain bin at the hardware store.  Another less-that-$2-tool that will
save you a bunch...if not time and money...then aggravation.

Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:37:04
Subject: Re: spring bushings

Jim:
	Its not just the bolts that wear.  As I said before, the shackle holes
also will elongate and the face of the shackle will wear a groove where the
center sleeve rotates against it.  Apparently it doesn't take a lot of time
as the shackles (both sides) were ruined on my parts truck in under 50,000
miles.  One of the threaded shackle holes actually nearly doubled in size
along the direction of wear.  I've tried them both loose and tight and
found not one iota of ride difference, by the way.  
	Also as a repeat, it may be the difference in someone's definition of
tight.  I will guarantee that if you leave them with any side to side slop
the shackles will wobble on the bolt and eventually wear themselves or the
bolt.  Bolts are cheap, a new shackle set ain't so cheap. My shackles and
bolts are original, they've been run up tight and are still going strong
after probably 150,000 miles and I just switched the springs for
Parabolics.  Did you know that rover springs actually can flex, try the
parabolics and find out???

Aloha Peter

 I'll replace mine, and maybe I'll try
>driving with the bushings both ways and see which way I like better. 
>Jim Hall

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:57:09 -0800
Subject: Re: spring bushings

From: INDIO2 <Indio2@cris.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:35:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: spring bushings

>If the Rover manual recommends cranking down hard on the shackle nuts then
cross that part out.

Crossing out a manufacturer's recommendation is not a particularly brilliant
thing to do.  If the bushings didn't work properly or last long enough with
the bolts tightened down, the chances are pretty good that the folks at
Solihull would have figured this out long before any of us bought our
vehicles, and they would have changed the installation procedure or the
specifications of the bushings.  I've owned my Land Rover since it was new
in 1973, and have taken it on some pretty rough roads as far as the demands
on the springs and shocks are concerned.  Thousands of miles of dirt and
gravel roads in British Columbia and the Yukon is far harder on springs,
shocks, and bushings than a few trips down the Rubicon.  In 25 years, I've
only changed the spring and shackle bushings once and that was when I fitted
new springs in the late 1980s.  The original bushings were in pretty good
shape at that time, but I figured since I had everything else off I might as
well change the bushings, too.   I followed the procedure outlined in the
factory service manual to the letter, and have had no problems with
premature bushing failure.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:06:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Vacuum brake bleeder (SnapON)

I bought a MityVac pump, and have mixed satisfaction with it.  I'm not sure
if it works the same as the Snap-On thingy you mentioned.  It is a very
clever device and has a vacuum gauge and can be used for many diagnostic
tasks as well as bleeding brakes, transfering liquids, etc.  

My biggest problem is really with the bleeding nipples on my 88"'s brakes.
When you attach the hose to the nipple and create a vaccum to pull brake
fluid (and hopefully air) out of the cylinder, air leaks in at the nipple
threads and a) diminishes the power of the vacuum and b) makes it
impossible to tell when you got the air out of the line.  I have reverted
to the two-person method.  My 8-year-old son dutifully helps out.  Some day
(if cars/trucks are still legal) he will appreciate the knowledge.

Todd

At 10:08 AM 11/19/98 -0600, you wrote:

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From: John Putnam <jdputnam@oriongps.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:49:31 -0800
Subject: Regulator Bybass

When I rewired the Rhino, I specified a loom for alternator fitted rigs. =
 It seems to me that it just crimps all of the wires headed to the =
regulator together.  I have 2 fuse blocks where the regulator used to =
sit.

John Putnam & the Rhino
Forest Grove, OR

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:47:11 -1000
Subject: Re: Welder

>Hi Gerry,
>  If your searching for a good welder you should be sure to get one that
>has a variable heat setting not the 4 setting switch but the infinate
>setting one.  I heard that builders squares sold one.   I use a Miller
>cricket myself but often wish I had more heat settings.  I also use .030
>flux core wire not the .035 wire so that I have more control of the
>heat.

If you can swing it  look into getting a driven head for use with aluminum
wire.  Perfect for Rover body work.

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:20:45 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: spring bushings 

Hey Guys,
this thread reminds me of the Garfield cartoon where Jon asked Garfield if,
when he walked, he moved alternate legs on opposite sides, or both legs on
one  side. Garfield looked at his feet and said(thought)"I'll never walk
again".

For thirty years I've changed bushes by knocking hell out of the old ones,
pressing a new one in, sort of tightening all the bolts up, taking the motor
of the jacks and driving up the road and back. Then tightening everything up
with as much tighten as I could manage.

works for me...

now I dunno what the hell to do :-(>
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:33:27 +1100
Subject: test please ignore

Frank wrote:

<<    +--+--+--+         
     I __|  [_]|_\___  
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW >><<     
 
Paul wrote:
>I dont know if you  will get this back as I am seeing it Frank,
> but your Land Rover`s wheels are coming out as 
"(0)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(0)"  
   
Frank/Paul

in ASCII,  3D hexidecimal is the = symbol 

Ron

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:24:40 -0000
Subject: not nice
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Something that happened to a friend of mine last night.
 He was on his way to see his girlfriend and stopped to gas up (put =
petrol in) his Land Rover. As he levered the pump petrol shot out all up =
his arm.
 H e went in and they agreed that the pump had malfunctioned and offered =
him a free tank of petrol (gas). He refused and said he'd sue.
So then he drove off and unthinkingly lit a cigarette, whereupon his arm =
set on fire.
 He waved it out of the window which didn;t help as the extra oxygen fed =
the flame.
So then the cops pulled him - and arrested him.

for possession of a firearm!

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+           
     I !__|  [_]|_\___  
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:23:14 -0500
Subject: Friday drivel...

I thought I'd seen the worst this list has to offer until today. The 
spring bushing thread is hopefully the bottom of the barrel, 
content-wise. I mean really, who gives a flying turd. So what if the 
bushings fry, put in new ones. Christ, half the rovers out there are 
running around with flat springs and half rusted frames. Idiotic.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:26:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Friday drivel...

Would rather see twenty ways of installaing bushings any day instead of
debates on the finer points of the judicial system or, gag, M***ca L***nski
8-)
Enjoy your weekend. Here in Missoula, it's time for Sid's bi-wekly
grease-up of the leaky bits, and perhaps I'll tinker with the bushings
(kidding!).

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:31:44 -0700
Subject: charge warning light

Well, it turns out that banging on the instrument panel only coincidentlly
brought the charge warning light back to halth. Could someone plese tell me
how this thing works? Particularly the alternator end of it (Delco alt). It
gets power from the normal supply and, then, I'm guessing, the alternator
acts as a ground until it starts spinning. Right so far? OK, so assuming
the bulb and connections are sound, what could cause it not to light when
first turning the key? does the alternator depend on the light for
"excitation" current, as some cars I think do, or no? Thanks, and, yes, I
know I should install a proper gauge, but sometimes an "idiot" light seems
more fitting for me 8-)

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: AKBLACKLEY@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:39:40 EST
Subject: Propshaft Problem

Ian: Is the noise ( and vibration) more prevalent on the overrun or under
power? I had a similar problem on my former SIIA, and did much the same
diagnostics. During my investigations I found a lot of wear in the idler gear
thrust washers and bearings, the output shaft bearing in the transfer case.
These were replaced, but the noise, though decreased, was still there. In the
end I replaced the entire rear propshaft with a new LR Genuine Part and the
noise and vibration went away. The culprit, I concluded, was wear in the
sliding splined shaft. I had replaced the front yoke (and hence one half
(female part) of the sliding spline), but there was still enough play that,
due to the angle of the shaft on the 88, the noise was still there. The new
shaft completely cured it (after rebuilding the transfer case, replacing the
rear diff, etc., all of which were also worn out). Good Hunting. Cheers, Andy
Blackley

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:46:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Fire Arms

The esteemed Frank Wrote:

Something that happened to a friend of mine last night.
 He was on his way to see his girlfriend and stopped to gas up (put =
petrol in) his Land Rover. As he levered the pump petrol shot out all up
=
his arm.
 H e went in and they agreed that the pump had malfunctioned and offered
=
him a free tank of petrol (gas). He refused and said he'd sue.
So then he drove off and unthinkingly lit a cigarette, whereupon his arm
=
set on fire.
 He waved it out of the window which didn;t help as the extra oxygen fed
=
the flame.
So then the cops pulled him - and arrested him.

for possession of a firearm!

Frank-that's why us Yanks support the right to Bare Arms!!

Sorry:-)

Art
1960 SII "Aardvark"

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:02:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Installing my ujs - tips?

Hi all -
	I got some replacement ujs.  I'm currently wrestling with removing
the clips holding the old ones in - Grrrrr!  Is there a trick?
	Next would come the cap removal.  They seem stuck in there nicely.
Is it ok to 1)tap or 2)bang or 3)beat the p1$$ out of them?
	What about installing the new ones, should they just require a
little force?
Thanks - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:25:00 EST
Subject: Re: Installing my ujs - tips?

In a message dated 11/20/98 3:04:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pmk11@cornell.edu writes:

> What about installing the new ones, should they just require a
>  little force?

Grease 'em up good, put the caps on and press them in the rest of the way (
bench vice will work but be careful to keep the caps straight)

Nate

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Installing my ujs - tips?

I just use pliers, channel locks to be exact, to get the clips out.
Sometimes if they are a real pain you can get one side out of the gap
and insert a thin screwdriver blade behind it before it snaps back. Then
pry it up and grab it with the pliers and pull. To get the caps out, and
also back in, I use a vice and two sockets. One socket is big enough
that the cap can slide into it, and the other one is slightly smaller
than the cap. Put the uj in the vice with a socket on either side and
tighten, forcing one cap out into the socket, remove the cap, reverse
the sockets and repeat. the large socket isn't needed for installation.
I have beaten them out with the sockets and a sledgehammer before for
very stubborn ones, but be sure not to hit the yoke.

Jim Hall

Peter M. Kaskan wrote:
= 
= Hi all -
=         I got some replacement ujs.  I'm currently wrestling with
removing
= the clips holding the old ones in - Grrrrr!  Is there a trick?
=         Next would come the cap removal.  They seem stuck in there
nicely.
= Is it ok to 1)tap or 2)bang or 3)beat the p1$$ out of them?
=         What about installing the new ones, should they just require a
= little force?

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From: Sski3@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:57:35 EST
Subject: Tire Chains

>I pulled a Semi out off a snowbank once, he couldn't belieave it,either
>could I.
>Did you have the chains on for this?!!
No, I had 32/10 on the "Scout" at the time. similar to m/t's

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From: "Vincent Vega" <joinow4free1@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:51:12
Subject: MY APOLOGY

I'm really sorry about the last message you got from me, You are not one of my 
subcribers, I'M DEEPLY SORRY, I SHOULDN'T DO IT!!
Really. It was supposed to go to my site subcribers.
It will never happen again, i'm deleting your addresses at the moment..
Thanks for the understanding.

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:15:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Exaust leak

I've got an exaust leak between the manifold and the first muffler pipe.
Is there supposed to be a gasket in there?  I don't have one in there.
Peter
(BTW - Thanks for the UJ Help)

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:28:15 EST
Subject: Re:  Re[2]: spring bushings

In a message dated 11/20/98 9:42:00 AM, Dave Bobeck wrote:

<<ugh. I don't believe i am reading this drivel. Are you saying other 4x4's 
are built better more robust than a Series LR? you are out of your 
flipping mind, pal. >>

 Nice.  Whatever happened to the idea of the virtual pub?  Um, dude, you need
to relax.

later 
enzo 

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:54:04
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

	There is no gasket.  The tuliped end of the exhaust pipe is supposed to
seal without a gasket.  Unfortunately doesn't always work.  My old manifold
and pipe sealed without a problem, the new manifold and pipe have a small
leak.  I'm going to try hi temp gasket compound if I ever get my rover back
on the road.  Will give you an update when its up and running.

Aloha Peter

At 05:15 PM 11/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've got an exaust leak between the manifold and the first muffler pipe.
>Is there supposed to be a gasket in there?  I don't have one in there.
>Peter

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:04:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Installing my ujs - tips?

"Peter M. Kaskan" wrote:

> Hi all -
>         I got some replacement ujs.  I'm currently wrestling with removing
> the clips holding the old ones in - Grrrrr!  Is there a trick?
>         Next would come the cap removal.  They seem stuck in there nicely.
> Is it ok to 1)tap or 2)bang or 3)beat the p1$$ out of them?
>         What about installing the new ones, should they just require a
> little force?
> Thanks - Peter

Option # 3 should work
  John and Muddy

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:08:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

"Peter M. Kaskan" wrote:

> I've got an exaust leak between the manifold and the first muffler pipe.
> Is there supposed to be a gasket in there?  I don't have one in there.
> Peter
> (BTW - Thanks for the UJ Help)
> Peter M. Kaskan

 There is no gasket, it is like a large bubble flare usually tightening the
clamp bolts will
stop the leak but if it has been loose long it could be too worn to seal
again. In this case you will need a new front pipe.
   John and Muddy

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From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:36:27 -0400
Subject: Re: spring bushings

John Cranfield wrote:
> If the pins
> and bush sleeves were intended to move there would be provision for 
>lubrication.
>.
 Is that like the tie-rod ends that come without the grease nipples?

    Oooopps! Did I just say that???!!! ;-)

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:36:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

Ok guys, so there is no gasket, and its possible it is worn funny.  I'll
try tightening it up - is there a torque setting?  How much is too much?
Or, can I buy some high temp gasket paper and cut my own?

BTW, will this leak damage anything?
Maybe my intake leak makes up for it!!

Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:52:18
Subject: none

>cwolfe
>Independence, Minnesota
>"My Governor can beat up your Governor"

My Governor dosen't wear feather bowas, poof sun glasses, spandax tights
(at least not in public), I think you get my drift 9^).

Jim Wolf

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:02:36
Subject: RE: bushings

>> For what it's worth,  neither the Green Bible nor Haynes tells precisely 
>>how to tighten the shackle pins; they don't give a torque setting either.
>yes they do. I know for a fact they give a torque setting. At least in the 
>SIII bible.

You, don't need these settings. Just tighten them up until they are snug,
then back off slightly, the spring must be able to move front to rear
without much effort. Then tighten the nylock nut down damn good, you are
finished. If the spring is really stiff to move or won't move you will be
back replacing bushings all 'round in short order. I hope you know about
the final tightening after putting all of the vehicle weight on the springs
and either driving a short distance, or giving it a good shake.

Jim Wolf

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:09:52
Subject: RE: bleeding

>I am strongly considering getting the Snap-On vacuum brake bleeding system.
>The concept of one person bleeding is highly appealing... As if I continue
>to do this and collect more birddogs or rovers, it may become a necessity.

These are ok, but just use some "series" imagination and make a pressure
bleeder. I use a piece of an inner tube with the filler  attached and some
HEAVY DUTY rubber bands and a bike foot pump. I am sure that this can be
improved on, but it works as aone person show.

Jim Wolf

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From: "Blair Gillespie" <blairg@fix.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:21:13 -0800
Subject: Re: Two and One-Half Series II Rovers Spotted on Maui

Good afternoon,
    Just got back from a great vacation to Hawaii. Went to Oahu and Maui.
Made the search for the 88's part of our adventure and finally found them.
Not to difficult really but made for a fun trip.
    Living so close to the ocean has been very unkind to them. Looking from
the passenger compartment in to the engine is pretty easy. Not because
somebody took the firewall out but because it was completely rusted away.
The frames were in the same shape. Not much worth saving except for may be
some panels. They acutely had some decent pick up cabs.
Glad to be home,
Rover On,
Blair

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:33:31
Subject: RE: RE: bushings

OK, here is the verbatum instructions from the factory shop manual for the
SIIA.

"to refit.... 3. Replace the spring by reversing the removal procedure, but
do not fully tighten the shackle pins and locking nuts at this stage.
              4. Lower the vehicle to the ground and move vehicle bodily
backward and forward to settle the springs. Tighten the shackle pins and
locking nuts. If the shackle pins and locking nuts are tightened prior to
lowering the vehicle to the ground, premature failure of the bushes will
occur."

There is nothing about torque settings etc.

Jim Wolf

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:41:08
Subject: Re: Exhaust leak

Mine wasn't very bad, kind of I think there is a leak but maybe there isn't
type of noise.  Only verified it after removing the pipe.  Checked the pipe
and manifold and there seems to be no erosion of metal.  With the
temperature of the exhaust gases, it would seem that a leak would not be a
good idea, however.  If your leak is really bad, might cause problems.  Try
putting a couple of washers under the nuts on the flange.  I solved a leak
in my manifold years ago by doing that.  The non threaded portion of the
stud was keeping the flange from cinching up tight.

I don't know if there is a torque setting but the studs are pretty small
diameter and probably won't take more than 25-30 pounds.

Aloha Peter

I'll
>try tightening it up - is there a torque setting?  How much is too much?
>Or, can I buy some high temp gasket paper and cut my own?
>BTW, will this leak damage anything?
>Cheers - Peter

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:11:01 EST
Subject: Smiths Oil Pressure gauge question

Hi all,

With the standard Smiths oil pressure gauge, does one use the 10 volt voltage
stabilizer to energize it?  If so, can one run a third line from the original
one (fuel gauge and temp gauge) or is a second stabilizer needed?

Thanks
Nate

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:32:07 EST
Subject: Re:  Re: Exaust leak

In a message dated 11/20/98 7:29:46 PM, you wrote:

<< I'll
try tightening it up - is there a torque setting?  How much is too much?>>

Dont over-do it.  Those exhaust manifolds get pretty fragile and it's easy to
snap off a flange.  I'd try the high-temp gasket myself.  These arent high
perf. engines. All you have to do is get the smoke out the back and everything
will be fine (no burnt valves)

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:30:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

John Cranfield wrote:
>  There is no gasket, it is like a large bubble flare usually tightening the
> clamp bolts will
> stop the leak but if it has been loose long it could be too worn to seal
> again. In this case you will need a new front pipe.

Guys, guys, guys,

What about using Gun Gum (made by Loctite)? I automatically use Gun Gum
on all my exhaust header to manifold joints whether they are inclined to
blow initially or not. I've never had a joint packed with Gun Gum blow
out. 

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:42:29 -0500
Subject: RE: bleeding

At 21:09 20/11/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>I am strongly considering getting the Snap-On vacuum brake bleeding system.

Until I read this ref to a commercial unit I thought that the vacuum
methods were home-grown only. I tried using a   hand vacuum pump setup with
stuff from the lab ages ago and only succeeded in drawing in air from
around the bleed nipple threads as soon as they were loosened.  The first
experience with a Gunsons EeziBleed  was so effective that I wouldn't ever
think of doing brake or clutch hydraulics any other way. Still - nice to
see so many effective solutions based on the same principle. 
Allan

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Steve Stoneham" <stoneham@kos.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:51:48 -0500
Subject: Additional Chassis Numbers #5533
	charset="iso-8859-1"

After removing the apron on my 1967 109 Station wagon (RHD 6 cyl.) I =
noticed the numbers "5533" stamped just below the serial number,which is =
in the appropriate location on the right side framehorn.
Looks like a factory stamp but I've no idea what the additional numbers =
stand for.
Just sort of oiling things up for dismantling and restoration at this =
point and I do plan to contact
Project Tracability soon but I wondered if anyone knew what these =
numbers denote?
Regards,
Steve Stoneham
1961 canvas top 88" licenced and heading into winter

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:44:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Smiths Oil Pressure gauge question

>With the standard Smiths oil pressure gauge, does one use the 10 volt voltage
>stabilizer to energize it?

Mine's mechanical - EH! It Don't need no stinkin' 10 volts!
Mine's an early IIA, BTW - Maybe the III is powered?
(Err, at least that's my understanding  - do I stand corrected?)

Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:48:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

>Guys, guys, guys,
>What about using Gun Gum (made by Loctite)? I automatically use Gun Gum
>on all my exhaust header to manifold joints whether they are inclined to
>blow initially or not. I've never had a joint packed with Gun Gum blow
>out.

Paul, I'm sorry, but, what the hell is Gun Gum?!
Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:39:04 +0200
Subject: Re: charge warning light

Joseph Broach wrote:
> does the alternator depend on the light for
> "excitation" current, as some cars I think do, or no? Thanks, and, yes, I
> know I should install a proper gauge, but sometimes an "idiot" light seems
> more fitting for me 8-)

Yes, the idiot light is part of the circuit that excites the alternator.
No idiot light, no charge! I'm slowly installing voltmeters in my Landys
(2 down, 3 to go), since I think it's more useful to know the state of
charge in the system, rather than just the amount of amps that the
alternator is putting out (I dunno if I've worded this technically
correctly, but this's the way I think of it). As far as I'm aware the
idiot light will happily light and then go out if there is any current
at all flowing from the alternator. I've found it more useful to know
that it's charging 14.5 volts, and if not I know I'm in trouble.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:52:32 +0200
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

"Peter M. Kaskan" wrote:
> Paul, I'm sorry, but, what the hell is Gun Gum?!

Umm, OK, it's like modelling clay with some asbestos-like texture and
properties. It's specifically intended for exhaust and silencer fitment
and repair. You smear it on the whole joint - it's quite sticky - before
you tighten up the flanges, then when you do tighten everything down it
squeezes into all the gaps. When you then run the vehicle it bakes rock
hard (when you disassemble at a later stage it breaks off quite easily
in chunks) and seals the whole catastrophe up tight as a... well sealed
exhaust system.

I know Loctite makes it and also Holts (if you have that brand over
there).
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:39:18 -0700
Subject: RE: bleeding 

<<The first
experience with a Gunsons EeziBleed  was so effective that I wouldn't ever
think of doing brake or clutch hydraulics any other way. Still - nice to
see so many effective solutions based on the same principle.
Allan>>

I got a Gunson's, too, on advice from the list, but I could never get it to
work. Tried all combinations of seals, but it kept leaking at the reservoir
cap. Finally found a friend to man the pedals and did it the old fashioned
way. Any hints on getting the blasted thing to work?

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:57:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: bleeding 

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Joseph Broach wrote:

:I got a Gunson's, too, on advice from the list, but I could never get it to
:work. Tried all combinations of seals, but it kept leaking at the reservoir
:cap. Finally found a friend to man the pedals and did it the old fashioned
:way. Any hints on getting the blasted thing to work?
:

Zen.  I find that I need to use two seals, one thick, one thin, to get
mine to seal.  It also seems to matter which order they are in, but not in
a consistent way.  I always check for leeks before filling the bottle with
fluid.  

David/mr sinclair, who will not develop a problem requiring me to bleed
the brakes just because I mentioned I can.  Really

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:09:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Bleeding

<<I always check for leeks before filling the bottle with fluid.>>
                     -----

Do you use vegetable based fluid then, David? 8-)

-joseph

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From: DHW4U@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:45:55 EST
Subject:  Steering Relay Rebuild?

 Has anyone rebuilt the steering relay on a series IIa replacing the split
washers and shaft. One fellow talked about doing it in place.

Dave Walls
IIa 88
(offroad everyday)

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From: Rovergo@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:49:11 EST
Subject: spring bushes to doo or not to doo

 Hi to all list members.
 ive been following this thread on tighting or not tighting spring mounts. a
little history on my 2a 88' it was rebuilt in africa in 1978 for a north bound
safari zigzaging east and west up africa 24000 thousand mile were completed on
this trip in 1979 alone. this rover runs at max weight all the time
approx,4200#  chevy six,36 gallons of 8000# ramsey winch, steel and oak slat
roof rack, my spring bushes get a real work out every day . at the time of
rebuild the logic of slightly loose and greased stock bushes was followed the
bushes lasted about 27000 miles but on replacment all surfaces that bush
spacers touched were shot this meant welding and grinding frame and shackles
and replacment of all bolts , at that time I went with the tight hardware
logic and you guessed it the stock bushes only lasted 4000-6000 miles after
replacing 4 complete sets of stock bushings this was getting real old at this
stage I decided to try somthing diffrent and went for old man emu poly bushes
and installed them tight so far I have 15000 miles on the first set this
includes about 5000 miles offroad in ca desert and death valley the bushes are
hold ing up great and no strange wear on mounts or bolts and this is with
diesel front springs and 109 one ton rear springs. I hope this info helps some
list readers make less expensive spring mounting decisions than what I went
through to find what works and preserves frame mounts.        
 Pat Young 
1965 2a 88'

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From: Don <DandY@saltspring.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:11:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

I don't like metal to metal joints.(grin) Went to the local pit stop and
got a 2" exhaust do-nut. They found me one with a bevel on one side and
flat on the other. I filed/rasped a bevel on the other side and...nice
and tight, no tiny exhaust leaks.

Don

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:16:09 EST
Subject: Re: Exaust leak

Strange...I could have sworn that I installed a gasket between the
manifold/pipe on my 88", a few years ago, but I can't remember! I Do remember,
that I had to replace the entire exhaust system including the manifold,
because I still had the early-type manifold - and it was broken - it DID have
a gasket here, so I'd guess that the new system had one as well.

I know for a fact that the diesel has one there, but it's a moot point on a
diesel, since it really doesn't need it. (how to check for a cylinder that's
burning oil: remove intake/exhaust manifolds from engine - then start engine,
and look for blue smoke coming from each exhaust port! I love it!)

Charles

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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:19:15 EST
Subject:  Re: Diesel Rangie?

If you're going to use a Rangie from the early days of official US import, you
could use the engine from a Peugeot 505 turbo  diesel. Especially if you're
after economy, not speed. The automatic trans for both the RR and the Peugeot
is the ZF 4HP22, so fab some front motor mounts, hang the radiator, play mix
and match with transmission convertor housings and Bobs yer uncle! 
Good running 505s are typically FS for <$1500 around here.
This would be my choice, but then again, I used to run a Peugeot shop.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS
LROA #1095
SoLaRoS #23
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1

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