L-R Mailing Lists 1948-1998 Land Rover's 50th Anniversary

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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 John Cranfield [john.cra13Re: Alternate Land Rover Engines
2 John Cranfield [john.cra21Re: Hub nut!
3 Marc Rengers [mr@b4m.com30re: Tires and T/X gears?
4 John Cranfield [john.cra12Re: Doesn't include 12k attachment.
5 "HENRY STAGE"[henry.stag29KODIAK HEATER
6 jimfoo@uswest.net 51Re: KODIAK HEATER
7 "HENRY STAGE"[henry.stag26relief expedition
8 "Wilson, Scott" [Scott.W28RE: relief expedition
9 "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti23RE: Class action cr*p
10 "Steve Mace" [steve@solw28LR Schematics again!!
11 "Clayton Kirkwood" [kirk26RE: Class action cr*p
12 Willyz@aol.com 19"Classic" of "Antique" insurance coverage for LRs
13 "David Hope" [davidjhope23Ammeter fluctuations
14 Lodelane@aol.com 12Chilton Manuals
15 Sski3@aol.com 15RE: Electric cooling fans
16 "Peter Hope" [phope@hawa15Re: Ammeter fluctuations
17 John Cranfield [john.cra9Re: "Classic" of "Antique" insurance coverage for LRs
18 John Cranfield [john.cra16Re: Ammeter fluctuations
19 "Richard Clarke"[Richard20toyota 2f and old chevy engines
20 IBEdwardp@aol.com 13Re: Alternate Land Rover Engines
21 IBEdwardp@aol.com 9Re: Class action cr*p
22 IBEdwardp@aol.com 40Re: Class action cr*p
23 Jpslotus27@aol.com 14Noise after OD installation?
24 "Franklin H. Yap" [FHYap61Re: Class action cr*p (NO LR CONTENT)
25 "Frank Elson" [frankelso20Re: Class action cr*p
26 "Jeff and Chris Jackson"17re: noise after OD installation
27 DNDANGER@aol.com 10Re: Watt's up
28 DNDANGER@aol.com 25Re: FYI (Re: TWA)
29 DNDANGER@aol.com 21Re: Tires
30 "Clark" [klak22@newmail.55THE LIFETIME REMINDER SERVICE
31 DNDANGER@aol.com 25Re: Class action cr*p
32 DNDANGER@aol.com 19Re: Class action cr*p
33 "Drew, Doug" [ddrew@dlj.13Diamond Edition Defender
34 DNDANGER@aol.com 33Re: Class action cr*p
35 "Clark" [klak22@newmail.55THE LIFETIME REMINDER SERVICE
36 GElam30092@aol.com 35Re: Class action cr*p: no LR content.....
37 "Clayton Kirkwood" [kirk54RE: Class action cr*p
38 Marcel Viljoen [marcelv@30Engine numbers
39 "The Becketts" [hillman@24TW - Transplants (engines)


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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:33:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Alternate Land Rover Engines

DONOHUEPE@aol.com wrote:

> (4.92l) inline six.  Plenty of power,  common as dirt , parts easy to find in
> North America.  This is a real truck engine.

And heavy as hell!
   Johnand Muddy

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:41:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Hub nut!

Olafur Agust Axelsson wrote:

> So the nut should be tightened a bit! - Ok that makes sense! - but I
> still felt that the axle didnt go into the diff far enough - only a few
> millimeters - I took the replacement axle from a ´73 SWB S3 - They both
> have -  I think its called Rover type axle housing! - at least it looked
> the same! - Is it possible that the axles are diffrent - the S3 axle
> being a bit shorter

What makes you think the axle shaft didn't go in far enough?
All the series axles were the same length, needing one short and and one long
shaft. The nut on the end is to hold it firm in the driver so that the splines
don't wear. If the driver is in place and bolted correctly then the axle shaft
has to be in the diff correctly.
John and Muddy

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From: Marc Rengers <mr@b4m.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:47:48 +0100
Subject: re: Tires and T/X gears?

>Note the need to change the T/X box gear to retain real miles, or km.
>Allan 

What gear needs to be changed? I thought it was the speedometer which 
makes the difference?

Marc Rengers
Westeremden, Holland
mr@b4m.com
0596-551334 (home)
050-3666761 (work)
06-51550521 (GSM)
06-59111461 (pager)
http://www.minerva.fk.hanze.nl/landrover/index.html

           --_                                --_         
      _____|__\___                    ________|__\___     
      | _  |   |_ |}                  |  _    |   |_ |}   
      "(_)"""""(_)"                   ""(_)"""""""(_)"
 1978 SIII 88" 2.25 diesel       1968  109"  SIIa 2.25 petrol
     reg. 47-DB-13                     reg. unknown    
      marine blue                 green (15 layers of paint)

also subscribed to LAND ROVER Owner International (great magazine)

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:19:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Doesn't include 12k attachment.

Paul in case you haven't figured it out the Major gets severe diahorrea when
presented with attachments. They just don't work. I believe this is to
prevent large unwanted files being sent to the whole list.
If you would like some one to share your mirth please send the GIF to me
privately.
   John and Muddy

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From: "HENRY STAGE"<henry.stage@smtp.cnet.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:30:51 -0600
Subject: KODIAK HEATER

     Hello all,
     
        Has anybody from the great frozen regions tried a Kodiak on a RHD 
     rover? As I recall, they were built for LHD canadian models (gotta 
     watch those evil frostbacks, don't ya know! ;) 
        My ambulance has two small heater cores, one in back which keeps 
     things wonderfully toasty and one between the front seats, which, in a 
     word, sucks.  
        The front core actually works just fine, but to defrost the air has 
     to cross the floor boards up the bulkhead, to grandma's house, etc, 
     finally to puff on the windscreen.  Big problem is when defrosting, no 
     heat to driver and passenger. If it is raining and you need the 
     defrost rather constantly, you freeze your little (or big, as the case 
     may be) patootie off. 
        Someone mentioned on the list the little ceramic 12v heater that 
     plugs into the dash for defrosters.  Are they worth the 20 bucks?
        Any suggestions would be helpful as I have a very long drive ahead 
     of me this christmas and would like to arrive without my hands frozend 
     to the wheel.
     
     cole stage
     
     Hefelump herder

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:50:07 -0800
Subject: Re: KODIAK HEATER

I just recently bought one of the ceramic heatersto help defrost my
windscreen. It works at least as well, if not better than my Smith's
shin roaster for defrosting, plus it works much sooner. One point
however, if you get one, you should wire it on it's own circuit with a
fuse because it draws quite a bit of current. I would guess 15 amps, but
I could be wrong as it doesn't say anywhere I can find. If you use
existing wiring, it starts getting quite warm. I used a piece of pipe
strap to bolt mine around the driver's side wiper motor, which seems to
work just fine. I think it's worth the money.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab

HENRY STAGE wrote:
 
      Hello all,
 
         Has anybody from the great frozen regions tried a Kodiak on a
RHD
      rover? As I recall, they were built for LHD canadian models (gotta
      watch those evil frostbacks, don't ya know! ;)
         My ambulance has two small heater cores, one in back which
keeps
      things wonderfully toasty and one between the front seats, which,
in a word,       sucks.
         The front core actually works just fine, but to defrost the air
has
      to cross the floor boards up the bulkhead, to grandma's house,
etc,
      finally to puff on the windscreen.  Big problem is when
defrosting, no
      heat to driver and passenger. If it is raining and you need the
      defrost rather constantly, you freeze your little (or big, as the
case
      may be) patootie off.
         Someone mentioned on the list the little ceramic 12v heater
that
      plugs into the dash for defrosters.  Are they worth the 20 bucks?
         Any suggestions would be helpful as I have a very long drive
ahead
      of me this christmas and would like to arrive without my hands
frozend
      to the wheel.
 
      cole stage

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From: "HENRY STAGE"<henry.stage@smtp.cnet.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:43:25 -0600
Subject: relief expedition

     Having been involved in military operations for relief I would like to 
     commend those that would like to lend a hand.  Advice: stay out of the 
     way while the big NGO's (non-gov't organizations) are on the ground 
     re; red cross, et. al.  They really have a hard time as it is and 
     cannot cope with any extra burdens. If you really want to do some 
     serious good right there, right now, join the National Guard and go 
     down and rebuild the roads, or send a check to the red cross.
        Where you can be the best help is in about 4-6 months from now when 
     all the media hype as moved its attention elswhere and there is still 
     much, much more to be done. Take the advice posted earlier to heart: 
     pick a village, a church, or a local charity and go down and do that 
     one concentrated bit of good. That will take one more thing off the 
     list of the big org's and you will make some small part of the 
     universe a better place to be. That is all, in the cosmic scale of 
     things, that anybody could ever hope to accomplish in a lifetime.
     
     Vaya con Dios (of your choice, of course),
      
     cole
     Hefelump herder

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <Scott.Wilson@viacom.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:40:26 -0500
Subject: RE: relief expedition

I'm forwarding this to the coil list... seems like there was someone on
there who was planning to do just this... a march-april trip down there
and he knew someone who worked for a mission or something... 
someone that could actually use a little help. I can't find the original
email, though.

-Scott

>      Having been involved in military operations for relief I would like
> to 
>      commend those that would like to lend a hand.  Advice: stay out of
> the 
>      way while the big NGO's (non-gov't organizations) are on the ground 
>      re; red cross, et. al.  They really have a hard time as it is and 
>      cannot cope with any extra burdens. If you really want to do some 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 25 lines)]
>      cole
>      Hefelump herder

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From: "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti" <passaretti@sol.med.ge.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:50:35 -0600
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

>>>>> "Clayton" == Clayton Kirkwood <kirkwood@garlic.com> writes:

    Clayton> ( McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit is a perfect
    Clayton> example: only an idiot would buy *hot* coffee, but it
    Clayton> between their legs while driving, squeeze it or spill it,
    Clayton> and feel that they have a reason to sue McD.s for not
    Clayton> warning them that they could be scaulded by said hot
    Clayton> liquid.

OK, just to set the record straight.  She didn't drive away.  She pulled
up to park in the waiting area for the rest of her order.  In addition,
she sued only for her medical costs, the punitive damages were added by
the judge.  It's not mitigating, but if you're going to argue cases, the
facts are relevant.  And for what it's worth, there were two other cases
(one before, one after) where the coffee was spilled in the restaurant
sitting at a table.  Don't ask why I know this (or care).  
								-MM

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From: "Steve Mace" <steve@solwise.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:37:49 -0000
Subject: LR Schematics again!!

I don't know if you remember but I posted an enquiry on 
the list for sites giving parts diagrams for LR's. Nobody 
came back but I've managed to find the site anyway from 
my bookmark list.

If anyones interested then 
http://mail.threewa.co.uk/4x4centre/findex.html
is the site. Seems to have diagrams of all of the dirty bits 
of most LR's. Most useful.

Steve

Steve Mace

1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90
In the UK
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:09:39 -0800
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

Just because I don't glean all of the facts doesn't mean my point is
wrong. Accidents happen, take responsibility, think a little. Hot
things burn. If you don't want to get burnt, don't obtain hot items.
When I was a kid (boyscouts), I put a number of matches in my pocket.
While walking along they rubbed together igniting several heads. Ouch,
that hurt. Should I have sued for my stupidity? Or should I take
responsibility for my actions. The manufacturer shouldn't have to
label the box and each match with words for all of the forseeable and
unforseeable crises which might take place.

If you make mods to your rover and have an accident related to said
mods, is it fair to sue Rover/BMW because they didn't warn you not to
put a certain doohickey on your  car as a mod?

Some people (many???) seem to believe that they don't have to think
and be responsible: just sue if things don't go the way you want!!!!

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

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From: Willyz@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:41:32 EST
Subject: "Classic" of "Antique" insurance coverage for LRs

Awhile back during the "nobody drives their LR's enough" discussion, a few
people mentioned that they have what I think they called classic or antique
insurance on their rovers. Can anybody point me towards the companies they use
for these policies. As always, thanks in advance.

TJW-keep it Rover! Don't know why, just seems right.

Have a great weekend all. 
Can K-State beat Nebraska?

Bill Kaszer
Series III
Manhattan, KS

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From: "David Hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:33:58 -0600
Subject: Ammeter fluctuations

I've seen a couple of recent posts regarding wildly fluctuating ammeter
gauges.

I had the same problem after I had mine rebuilt.  I checked with the
rebuilder and he said this is normal although it is possible to tighten
something in the back of the gauge to reduce the fluctuation.  However, I
was warned that this can lead over time to the gauge only moving over a very
small range.

So, I have opted to leave my ammeter fluctuating over a wide range.
Apparently that is how it is meant to work.

One thing I did do, on Bill Adams's advice, was clean up all the terminals.
This  seemed to help.

David Hope
64llA

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From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:57:37 EST
Subject: Chilton Manuals

Got a note from another list the other day about book availabilites.  Of note
was that Chilton's has released a maintenance manual on both the Series Land
Rovers and the early Range Rovers.  Anyone else seen anything on these?

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

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From: Sski3@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:13:45 EST
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

Hi all; I have a mazda 1988 626 with the same fan on it, so the later fans
should work also. And by the way the Ford Probe has the same fan setup in it
also, I know because my radiator went and the replacement came from a Ford
Probe. Any year should do, as long as there the same body style. You may want
to put in a switch to shut it off when fording.
Steve F
New Hampshire
69 SIIA 88
65 SIIA 88 lawn ornament

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:54:46 -1000
Subject: Re: Ammeter fluctuations

>I had the same problem after I had mine rebuilt.  I checked with the
>rebuilder and he said this is normal

I am not sure about the Smiths gauges but I know that other ammeters are not
suposed to do this.  Sounds like a classic case of a rebuilder not owning up
to an error on their part.  In other words, pure BS.
my .02
Aloha
Pete

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:14:12 -0400
Subject: Re: "Classic" of "Antique" insurance coverage for LRs

> Can K-State beat Nebraska

At what?

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:17:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Ammeter fluctuations

Peter Hope wrote:

> >I had the same problem after I had mine rebuilt.  I checked with the
> >rebuilder and he said this is normal
> I am not sure about the Smiths gauges but I know that other ammeters are not
> suposed to do this.  Sounds like a classic case of a rebuilder not owning up
> to an error on their part.  In other words, pure BS.

You said it Pete!
  John and Muddy

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:15:43 +1000
Subject: toyota 2f and old chevy engines

I have an old 1942 Chev 'blitz (Canadian Millitary Pattern) truck.  When I
got it the engine was cactus but a friend had a rusted out FJ55 Landcruiser
with the 2F motor (late 70's vintage)  - it looked verrrry similar

When I removed the timing gear cover to fit the front engine mount the
holes were a slightly different size, but in the same places!  The casting
marks on the block were identical.

Mechanically the engine was different, the 2F had pumped oil feed and an
oil filter, the fuel pump was twice the size and the carbies were nothing
alike, and the bellhousing didn't match (these presented a number of
challenges in fitting but nothing that couldn't be overcome!)  The motor
had clearly evolved into something different but its genes were quite
evident :-)

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From: IBEdwardp@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:16:06 EST
Subject: Re: Alternate Land Rover Engines

I agree with Paul's assessment of the Ford 300 cid, but wondered it it wasn't
a trifle long to install in a standard 4cyl LR engine compartment. Does this
require bulkhead modification? Is the "Scotty" or other converter available?

Ed Bailey
66 S2a 88
(Usually lost) Somewhere in East Tennessee

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From: IBEdwardp@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:20:32 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-12 01:09:07 EST, you write:

 >>

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From: IBEdwardp@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:42:03 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-12 01:09:07 EST, you write:

<< While I don't disagree that cleaning up the issues you mention, the
 real issue that causes frivolous lawsuits is a lack of morals in the
 body legal, and most importantly the stupidity of the average american
 (sorry if that offends you, but I consider myself above the average
 intelligence level of most americans). Who wouldn't sue if you have a
 great chance to win several million dollars from a company by way of
 the idiot juries who award ridiculous amounts of money for things that
 anybody with an ounce of intelligence wouldn't do. >>
Sorry about the double post ... slipped.  While I tend to agree with your
sentiments about "runnaway jurys," it needs to be pointed out that these jurys
are not simply drawn out of a hat. They are selected by lawyers on both sides
by a complicated but impartial process where both sides of the controversy
have an equal opportunity to strike jurors they don't want. Additionally, the
verdicts come only after protracted trials in which both sides have "equal"
opportunity to present evidence. When a lawyer or group of lawyers take on a
large corporation, be it automotive, tobacco or fast food, the odds favor the
side which has the most money. The industries tend to band together, to share
information, expert witnesses and slush funds. The plaintiff's lawyers are
pretty much on their own, either funding their cases on whatever they want to
risk out of their own pockets, or from whatever their clients want to
contribute. Even when a jury "runs away" and awards huge punitive damages in a
verdict, the trial court or appellate court can reduce the verdict to whatever
is felt to be reasonable. In other words, while we may not agree with the
outcome in every case, at least the system is fair. I realize this is way off
base from LR topics, but I feel someone should respond when our entire legal
system is being flamed. It may not always reach the best result, but at least
its always fair.

Ed Bailey
66 s2a 88
(Usually Lost) Somewhere in East Tennessee
(Occasionally honorable lawyer)

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:19:58 EST
Subject: Noise after OD installation?

   About 1 week after installing my Toto overdrfive, I notice there is much
more noise and vibration coming from the tranny/x-fer case/overdrive area.
This is especially noticable when I let up on the gas pedal.
   Has anyone else noticed this?  I'm wondering if it's due to the overdrive
installation or just coincidental to the overdrive.

Thanks
Enzo

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:34:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p (NO LR CONTENT)

IBEdwardp@aol.com wrote:

> Sorry about the double post ... slipped.  While I tend to agree with your
> sentiments about "runnaway jurys," it needs to be pointed out that these jurys
> are not simply drawn out of a hat. They are selected by lawyers on both sides
> by a complicated but impartial process where both sides of the controversy
> have an equal opportunity to strike jurors they don't want.

It is way too simplistic to say there is an impartial process.  Each person has
built-in biases that cannot readily be ascertained.  Jury consultants have made 
a
small fortune advising lawyers on how to read juries, i.e., how to select a 
juror
that will agree with the case you present.  Not every party can afford a jury
consultant.

> Additionally, the
> verdicts come only after protracted trials in which both sides have "equal"
> opportunity to present evidence.

I suppose "equal" is in parenthesis because this is only theoretical.  The party
with more money will have a more "equal" opportunity.

>  The plaintiff's lawyers are
> pretty much on their own, either funding their cases on whatever they want to
> risk out of their own pockets, or from whatever their clients want to
> contribute.

This is true for small plaintiff's lawyers.  For the plaintiff's lawyers who go
after the lotto, they often have hundreds of thousands of dollars to pour into a
case.  Small (economic sense) lawyers can get larger (wealthier) lawyers to buy 
or
invest in their cases.  It is a good incvestment if you get a multi-million 
dollar
verdict since the lawyers can get over 50% of the verdict.  (Many plaintiff
lawyers have agreements that include a much larger percentage if the case goes 
to
trial, appealed after judgement, etc.)

> .. In other words, while we may not agree with the
> outcome in every case, at least the system is fair.

Dreaming...

> I realize this is way off
> base from LR topics, but I feel someone should respond when our entire legal
> system is being flamed. It may not always reach the best result, but at least
> its always fair.

The system is fair sometimes.  But "always" ... I think not.  And I think many
people will disagree because they have too many personal experiences that show 
the
system is not fair.

Frank

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:53:40 -0000
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

also something which brings your country into ridicule from us lot across
the pond. The source for many an English comedian. However, they do say that
what happens in America happens in the UK ten years later and we're just
starting to catch up on you for stupid lawsuits.
 Lee Iacocaa had it right when he pointed out the huge numbers of lawyers
who graduated in a certain year as against the tiny number of engineers...
work out why for yourselves
Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+
            I !__|  [_]|_\___
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Jeff and Chris Jackson" <jcjcj88@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:11:01 -0800
Subject: re: noise after OD installation

[About 1 week after installing my Toto overdrfive, I notice there is much
more noise and vibration coming from the tranny/x-fer case/overdrive area.
This is especially noticable when I let up on the gas pedal.
   Has anyone else noticed this?]

Mine does the same thing.  Endfloat, I believe.  Not to worry - many
thousands of miles with no problems.   I've got a Fairey, though, vice the
Toto.  Maybe it would work better in Kansas?

Rgds,
Jeff

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:30:50 EST
Subject: Re: Watt's up

I doubt that the alternator itself is sensitive but the diodes (again) may be.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:37:37 EST
Subject: Re: FYI (Re: TWA)

In a message dated 98-11-11 10:35:15 EST, you write:

 
 I assumed that the original poster was referring to me and my tendency to 
 misunderstand things said in jest without a smily face or equivalent 
 label then to easily become defensive.  
 
 I was just wondering about the initials.
 
 The 'A' is grabbed out of the middle of my first name.  Its like calling 
 a guy named Richard Boone RHB.
 
 My middle initial is 'J' making TJW.  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'
 
 FYI
  >>
Got it.

WBL

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:53:30 EST
Subject: Re: Tires

In a message dated 98-11-11 13:48:57 EST, you write:

 I have 16 inch wheels on my 109 5-door, but the tires are, I think,
 205s.  Aren't 235s the more common size for 16 inch wheels?  The truck
 seems to sit very low (in fact many people have asked whether I even
 have 16 inch wheels on the truck).  Any good recommendations on
 make/models for tires?
 -- 
 >>
I've got a set of Michelin LTX Mud and Snows on my RR. If I can afford it I'm
going to put some of them on my 109 when it goes back on the road. Michelins
wear like iron and they are very grippy.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, Nm
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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:40:12 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-12 01:09:07 EST, you write:

 While I don't disagree that cleaning up the issues you mention, the
 real issue that causes frivolous lawsuits is a lack of morals in the
 body legal, and most importantly the stupidity of the average american
 (sorry if that offends you, >>

It offends me more than you can know that you can say it and that I have to
concur. We've been subjected for decades to politicians campaigning and being
elected with the call to increase spending on education while vilifying those
who would try to optimize the money already being spent (in many cases
wasted). But it just seems to get worse. I believe the intelligence of any
crowd is in inverse proportion to the number members thereof. Our political
system seems to be devoted to the care and feeding of larger and dumber
crowds. I guess that is one reason why I prefer to drive these silly vehicles,
smaller crowds.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:50:10 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-12 01:49:34 EST, you write:

 > (Hey, if that comment about the shopping trolley 4X4's doesn't
 > get my toes toasted nothing will!)
 Oooops... there I go perpetuating it!
  >>
What do you mean, I love it. and more to the point I love the poor lost souls
it described. What it means is that when my poor old Blue Rangie finally wears
down to the nub there will be plenty of used (sorry, pre-owned) well
maintained, never off-roaded, low mileage Solihull vehicles to take her place.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM  

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From: "Drew, Doug" <ddrew@dlj.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:22:41 -0500
Subject: Diamond Edition Defender

What did the 300 Diamond Edition Land Rover Defenders sell for in 1997?
What is a ballpark price range for an extremely well equiped version of
this car with about 5,000 miles on it?

Thanks in advance,

Doug Drew

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 23:28:43 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-12 18:43:14 EST, you write:

<< When a lawyer or group of lawyers take on a
 large corporation, be it automotive, tobacco or fast food, the odds favor the
 side which has the most money.  >>

I suppose that's one way to look at it. However I have a feeling that many
times the jury is more sympathetic with a plaintiff they can identify with.
That is why lawyers often attempt to establish class envy and engender a sense
of social wrath against the "deep pockets" of the defendant. The case may end
up being more about "They are rich and it just ain't fair" than about "Any
seven year old with two braincells to rub together knows better than to do
that." Yes the tobacco companies are rich (and Al Gore's family too) but any
fool knew years ago what they are now claiming the tobacco companies tried to
hide. How many people never heard the terms "coffin nails" or "cancer sticks"?
What it is really about is people not being required to accept the results of
their own actions. Throw in a few greedy lawyers (Hugh Rodham comes to mind.)
and we have a new method of raising taxes and making a new generation of
billionaires. If "big tobacco" is guilty so are all of the governmental
entities who have promoted the use of the product and filled their coffers in
the process. 

As I am so often forced to admit about my Rovers, I don't know how to fix it
but any fool can see it's broken.

Bill (so damned frustrated I could bust) Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:00:15 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p:  no LR content.....

In a message dated 11/12/98 9:29:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
DNDANGER@aol.com writes:

<<  However I have a feeling that many
 times the jury is more sympathetic with a plaintiff they can identify with.
 That is why lawyers often attempt to establish class envy and engender a
sense
 of social wrath against the "deep pockets" of the defendant. The case may end
 up being more about "They are rich and it just ain't fair" than about "Any
 seven year old with two braincells to rub together knows better than to do
 that."  >>

Which is why they're trying to get the trial filed in Alabama.  The juries
there will buy that argument every time from a Matlock-type attorney...."I'ma
tellin yew... if jest ain't fara... da way they treat'ed my cli'unt" ....or...
"dat dawg don' hunt hera".  

There was a multi-million dollar judgment against  a dealer couple o' years
ago because a guy bought a BMW that wasn't so new after all.  The jury found
for the guy who was given millions in damage.  Luckily it was overturned on
appeal.  

And I can rag on the juries in Alabama seeing as how I spent 17 years in the
state.... so don't start telling me that I'm not being fair or don't know what
I'm talking about!!!   

G'night...
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:58:40 -0800
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

 >  However I have a
 >  feeling that many
 >  times the jury is more sympathetic with a plaintiff they
 >  can identify with.
 >  That is why lawyers often attempt to establish class envy
 >  and engender a sense
 >  of social wrath against the "deep pockets" of the
 >  defendant. The case may end
 >  up being more about "They are rich and it just ain't
 >  fair" than about "Any
 >  seven year old with two braincells to rub together knows
 >  better than to do
 >  that."

My point exactly!!!
 >  Yes the tobacco companies are rich (and Al Gore's
 >  family too) but any
 >  fool knew years ago what they are now claiming the
 >  tobacco companies tried to
 >  hide. How many people never heard the terms "coffin
 >  nails" or "cancer sticks"?
 >  What it is really about is people not being required to
 >  accept the results of
 >  their own actions. Throw in a few greedy lawyers (Hugh
 >  Rodham comes to mind.)
 >  and we have a new method of raising taxes and making a
 >  new generation of
 >  billionaires. If "big tobacco" is guilty so are all of
 >  the governmental
 >  entities who have promoted the use of the product and
 >  filled their coffers in
 >  the process.

Well stated: I can't begin to understand the reasoning for suing
tobacco companies for the smoker's general lack of listening and
thinking: we are blasted with ads and infomercials about the risks of
smoking. The government (last I heard) taxes cigarettes heavily and
then turns around and provides subsdidies for tobacco growers, and
then takes their PAC money to buy votes/favors. BTW, why are the
states funding medical costs for people who continue to smoke knowing
the risks and problems caused by smoking. Tis ludicrous (sp?).

Rover content: Too bad driving our rovers down steep off camber
embankments causing a spine crushing event isn't covered the same way
cigs are.

 >  Bill (so damned frustrated I could bust) Lawrence
 >  Albq, NM

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From: Marcel Viljoen <marcelv@msmail.cs.unp.ac.za>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:04:13 +0200
Subject: Engine numbers

Hi

Does anyone know of a web resource with engine numbers.  I am trying to
find the number range for the 2.5l 4 cyl petrol motors that were in the
*early* 110s here in South Africa.

Marcel Viljoen
Department of Computer Science and Information Systems
(Soon to Be:
School of Mathematics, Statistics, Computer Science and Information
Systems)
Natal University, Pietermaritzburg
Private Bag X01
Scottsville
Pietermaritzburg
3209

Phone +27 (331)260-5643
Fax   +27 (331)260-5966 
Cell +27 82 445 7191

email marcelv@compnt.cs.unp.ac.za.

	Entropy requires no maintenance

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:29:08 +1100
Subject: TW - Transplants (engines)

john cranfield  wrote:
>I believe that the Holden engines have more in common with the
>Vauxhall 6 cylinder used in the 60s in England than the US sixes.
>this was a sweet running engine and of course used Lucas electrics!

Dunno.  I don't think so.  But they certainly don't use Lucas in Holdens.  They 
used to
use AC-Delco and Bosch.  Not sure about now.

Oh, by the way, when we moved to unleaded petrol in 1986, the Holden engine 
wouldn't meet
emission standards so Holden changed to Nissan 6-cyl EFi engines until they got 
the GM US
3.8 litre V6 converted for Australian production and rear wheel drive.
I believe the Nissan engine is a nice one - it may be the same engine as used 
in Datsun
280Z cars.
Ron

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