Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents

[ First Message Last | Table of Contents | <- Digest -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: Olafur Agust Axelsson <olafura@ti.is>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:06:08 +0000
Subject: Hub nut!

Hi!
I was wondering - I just finished putting the diff back on and a new
halfshaft in! - but what should I do with the hub nut? - The Bible (ie.
Haynes) doesnt say how to tighten it - should I screw it in as far as I
can? - I felt that the shaft didnt go very far into the diff - is there
any special measure on how far in it should go? - I would think as far
as it can get - more grip!

Any comments?

Olafur Agust - olafura@ti.is

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:31:21 EST
Subject: Re: TWA

In a message dated 98-11-10 19:43:57 EST, you write:

<< << Zack writes >  Just don't piss TWA off and you'll be OK. >>
 >>

To hell with pissing off T-Way: Beware of the guy holding the Stinger!

Charles

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:59:22 +1100
Subject: Transplants (engines)

Luis Manuel Gutierrez wrote:
>What is that Chev engine that Toyota used for early FJ's?

I understand that when Toyota built their first FJ 4wds, the 6 cylinder 3.9 
litre petrol
motor was a copy of a early post-war Chev motor.  This motor is bloody heavy 
and, in my
opinion, too heavy for a Land Rover.

The motor was later developed into the 4.2 Litre 2F and 3F petrol motors.

>All FJ 40's, (at least here in CR), where fitted, when diesel, with the 3.0
>liter 4 cylinder engine that I'm currently using under my bonnet.
>Is this the engine you are refering to?
No - see above.

Ron

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:24:48 +1100
Subject: TW - Transplants (engines)

Ron wrote:

>Australians consider the LR engine too underpowered
> and too slow on highway.  If one is looking for a Series
;> LR here, one normally check to see that it has a
;> Holden engine fitted.

Just to clarify, Holden are a subsidiary of General Motors.  The engines they 
produced
from 1948 thru until the 80's were in-line 6-cyl engines of medium capacity.  
However, the
engines we are talking about in Rovers are the 6-cylinder engines that were 
first
introduced into the Holden cars in 1964.  Since then, millions have been 
produced in
various capacities viz, 161ci, 179ci, 186ci, 202ci  -  all variation on the 
same engine.
The most common conversions are the 179 and 186ci engines.  These engines are 
small by US
standards and are much, much smaller and lighter than the Toyota 2F and 3F 
derivatives of
the Chev motor.  Because they were produced in such huge numbers, they are dirt 
cheap to
buy and to rebuild.  There is also a very large after-market of accessories and 
hot-up
bits available.

>Ron thanks for the data points and encouragment.
>I have always felt this "need" to be understood so I
>will probably continue to bat at the nay sayers out there.

Yup, know the feeling.  I'm in a classic car club.

>The feeling that the engine is the heart and soul of a LR
>is primarily a North American hang up that I will have to deal
with since I tend to hit a lot of LR meets.

What people there have to realise is that your car is aworking vehicle. It is 
not a
restored classic.  Therefore, you have to build the car to do what YOU want it 
to do.

>I noticed that you mentioned a petrol engine to be THE
>common transplant.

Petrol engines, especially Holdens are cheap e.g.$200.  Diesels aren't e,g., 
second hand
$3,500 and up.

>I have been working under the notion that in everyplace
>except North America, diesel is the more common less
>expensive fuel.

Diesel costs more than petrol in most places in Australia (except out in the 
bush)..But
not by much.  Fuel costs (at my local garage):
Today's prices (as they tend to move around quite a bit):
I've used the following conversions:  A$1.00 = US$0.62 and 1 US Gallon = 3.78 
litres
Leaded 65.9¢ per litre (always 2¢/litre dearer than unleaded
Unleaded Petrol (ULP) 63.9 ¢ per litre (US39.6¢ per litre or US$1.50 per US Gallon)
Premium Unleaded Petrol (PULP) 73.9 ¢ per litre (US45.8¢ per litre or US$1.73 per US
Gallon)
Diesel 70.9 ¢ per litre (US44¢ per litre or US$1.66 per US Gallon)
LPG 24.9¢ per litre (US15.4¢ per litre or US94¢ per US Gallon)

>I just learned that South Africa is more like North America as far
>as fuel availability is concerned.  Petrol is common and you may
>have to look for diesel.  What is the situation in Australia???

ULP and leaded petrol everywhere, PULP is less common.  Diesel everywhere, even 
in the
cities - In fact I can't recall ever seeing a service station that didn't sell 
diesel.
Diesel isn't common in cars like it is oversease.  It is mainly in 4WDs etc 
(plus, of
course heavy trucks).
LPG almost everywhere, but certainly in the cities - all taxis run LPG because 
of the
costs.

>Here are my current top choices for an engine transplant:
>- 292 GM six cylinder engine coupled to Borg Warner t-18
>   transmission & LR transfer case

That's a lot of weight, as is you other option of the 302 Ford engine.  What 
about a
Chrysler (Plymouth) Valiant 225ci, 245ci or Hemi 265ci?  All these have the 
advantage of
low cost and no sophisticated electronics.  The 265 Hemi may be an Australian 
engine, but
it has some grunt.  A mate has one in his IIA.

>- 200 tdi, hotrodded, coupled to newer LR 5 speed transmission

Expensive!!

>- LD28 Nissan six cylinder diesel with intercooled turbocharger
   coupled to a Nissan 5 speed truck transmission & LR transfer case

Not a bad choice and readily available at reasonable cost.  I was passed 
recently by a
Series 1 which had this set up.  I was doing 110kph (70mph) and he flew past 
me!  But he
had Nissan axles and diffs too.

Have a look at Marks 4WD Adapters site in OZ.

Ron

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:42:12 -0400
Subject: Re: TW - Transplants (engines)

The Becketts wrote:
> Ron wrote:
> >Australians consider the LR engine too underpowered
> > and too slow on highway.  If one is looking for a Series
> ;> LR here, one normally check to see that it has a
> ;> Holden engine fitted.
> Just to clarify, Holden are a subsidiary of General Motors.  The engines they 
produced

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> buy and to rebuild.  There is also a very large after-market of accessories 
and hot-up
> bits available.
I believe that the Holden engines have more in common with the Vauxhall
6 cylinder used in the 60s in England than the US sixes. this was a
sweet running engine and of course used Lucas electrics!
    John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:47:21 -0500
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

Funny this topic should come up....
I installed an electric fan in my 88 this past weekend.
After searching my local junkyard for a suitable fan, I settled on one from
an early 90's Mazda 626, as it was the same diameter as the engine fan, with
twice as many blades that were half as wide, and overall was @ 3.5 inches
thick (the motor was a marvel of engineering in itself).  My semi-retired
mind reasoned that it would move about the same amount of air as the engine
fan, depending upon RPM, of course.  (if someone else has found a better
donor fan, please share.)
Now the Mazda fan was mounted fore of the radiator, and 'pulled' air from
the engine compartment.  I wanted to push air into the 88's engine bay,
emulating the function of the engine fan.  To accomplish this meant that I
simply had to flip the plastic fan blade over on the Mazda fan, which was
done. (be careful when selecting a donor fan, as some are pushers and some
are pullers and not all will permit flipping the fan blade over to change
the air flow direction.  And simply reversing the polarity won't change the
fan's rotation.  The result is akin to the PofD smoke principle.)
Mounting was very simple, due to the bracketry on the Mazda fan housing,
which provided four 'arms' at 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock positions(in the Mazda
application).  The resulting position in the 88 mimicked the engine fan's
relative position, just in front of the radiator.  
On the Mazda fan shroud bracket, two arms were studded and two were holed.
It allowed the studded side to be turned to the 12 o'clock position and one
of the studs replaced one of the 2 middle top radiator mounting bolts that
pass thru the top of the breakfast.  The second fan stud required drilling a
hole just to the left of the other middle bolt.  That left the bottom 2 arms
of the fan, which were now positioned at the bottom of the radiator.  I
simply used the plastic disc and straps and foam pads from an aftermarket
electric fan mounting kit bought at the local auto parts store for 4$.
These were passed through the radiator and secured on the back side.
Mounting complete.  Looks factory good.
I also purchased the same manufacturers thermostat kit for another 18$.
This provided a thermocouple for mounting against the external surface of
the radiator's top tank, connected by capillary tube to a rheostat that
allows adjustment for selecting the turn-on temperature of the connected
fan.  (Some of you with Kenlowes would recognize it.  In the Kenlowe
application the capillary tube and thermocouple are inserted into the top
radiator hose.) I chose to follow the recommended install procedure and
'wedged' the thermocouple between the top tank and the plastic shroud by
backing off the top passenger side shroud mounting screw a bit.  The
thermostat was mounted on the passenger side of the breakfast's top plate,
fore of the battery where it is high, dry and protected.  
Wiring consists of a switch(connected to 12v un-switched power at the fuse
block) and an indicator light, both mounted on the center dash panel next to
the flasher switch (NAS spec 88).  The light allows me to monitor when the
fan is actually running.  The switch allows interruption of the fan circuit
to prevent fan from running while wading.  The switch is connected to a
standard relay which powers the fan, thru the thermostat control, with power
taken from the battery connection on the starter solenoid.  The fan can
continue to run with the ignition switched off, until cool down shuts it
off.
I have not removed the engine fan yet.  I want to monitor the electric's
operation first.  When I am satisfied that I have adjusted the thermostat
correctly and everything is working OK, I will then remove the engine fan.
That should quiet the 2.25 a bit and provide recovery of a few horses.
As it is the cool season now, I won't know until next summer if it is
adequate.
I'll let you know then.

John Tackley
Richmond, VA

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:46:05 +0200
Subject: Class action cr*p

Hi All,

God! I just stumbled across a site that knocked me flat on my back,
check it out at http://www.whafh.com/landrover/index.htm

I trust that none of the members of this list are involved (if you are;
Shame, shame and shame again). What do these guys expect, a vehicle that
lasts forever with no basic maintenance? Its like buying vitamins and
then suing the pharmacist for not selling you immortality. Are they
crazy, or what?

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:06:55 -0600
Subject: RE: Diesels Temperature

>I got mine at Pep Boys Luis. I'm sure there is one on every street corner
down
>there. Actually you should be able to find them at any auto parts store.
>Bill lawrence
>Albq, NM

Well...no. No Pep Boys and no fans at auto parts stores. I asked all over
before I bought the corolla fan.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Brad Harris" <brad.harris@westernsouthernlife.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:13:35 -0500
Subject: Big South Fork National Park

I just posted this on the coiler digest so sorry about the double post if
you read both. I have a Range Rover so I limit my post to things I know (or
think I know) so I don't think I've ever posted on this digest before. This
is a general question that covers all Land Rover owners, so I thought I'd
put it here also.

Does anybody out there have any 4wd experience in Big South Fork National
Forest in northern Tennessee? I've hiked there plenty of times but I've
never gone off road there before. The reason I'm asking is because I'm going
there this weekend from Friday night to Sunday afternoon to off road and
camp. I know I'll be going on the O&W Railroad Trail but other than that I
was just going to play it by ear. Anybody out there have any suggestions as
to good trails in this area?

Thanks for any help you can give,

Brad H.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:13:49 -0600
Subject: RE: Transplants (engines)

>The motor was later developed into the 4.2 Litre 2F and 3F petrol motors.

Oh, Ok. 

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:24:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Tackley, John wrote:
> Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

john, good post.  looks like a 6pack and junque-yard
weekend.  except, i have to get two cause i like to have
spares...  what did you pay for a 626 electric fan?

ray harder

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:06:23 -0500
Subject: Watt's up

 Ron "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com> wrote:

>Sandy, what type of alternator do you have?  The Lucas 15AC?  If so, I'd
>have a  close look at the diode pack.  The 15AC diode pack is notorious
for >the diode junctions breaking.

The original on the Series III was the Lucas 16ACR, but I've "upgraded" to
the 18 ACR as was fitted to Jags.  A whopping 45 amps (maybe) of output as
opposed to the original (theoretical) 37.  Dimensionally and otherwise,
they appear identical.  Most likely just a few more turns of wire to crank
out a bit more juice.  I plan on checking the wiring first, then carry it
in to an alternator shop for a free check-up.

In another vein, are alternators heat sensitive?  In other words, does
output decrease as temperature increases?  On this particular unit, voltage
has declined slightly as the engine warmed.  It's been in service for
several years (five?) and if something were really wrong, I figure it would
have crapped out entirely by now.  Maybe the alternator light is fair
warning.  I've always found that if you pay close enough attention to your
Rover, it'll give you ample warning of pending trouble.  Except axles, that
is....

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

>Not sure which alternator you have, but the last time Mr. C did this to
>me the problem was a bad connection to the output lug on the back of the
>alternator.

>The lug had broken, and the light stayed on only as long as the bits were
>connected together...

>Sandy, check the connections on the back.

I'll check the connection for corrosion, but I doubt it has broken.  It's a
10 gauge wire (tinned marine multi-strand) with crimped, then soldered and
sealed connectors....

Hope I invoked Nigel's Disease.... Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:06:25 -0500
Subject: Watt's up

 Ron "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com> wrote:

>Sandy, what type of alternator do you have?  The Lucas 15AC?  If so, I'd
>have a  close look at the diode pack.  The 15AC diode pack is notorious
for >the diode junctions breaking.

The original on the Series III was the Lucas 16ACR, but I've "upgraded" to
the 18 ACR as was fitted to Jags.  A whopping 45 amps (maybe) of output as
opposed to the original (theoretical) 37.  Dimensionally and otherwise,
they appear identical.  Most likely just a few more turns of wire to crank
out a bit more juice.  I plan on checking the wiring first, then carry it
in to an alternator shop for a free check-up.

In another vein, are alternators heat sensitive?  In other words, does
output decrease as temperature increases?  On this particular unit, voltage
has declined slightly as the engine warmed.  It's been in service for
several years (five?) and if something were really wrong, I figure it would
have crapped out entirely by now.  Maybe the alternator light is fair
warning.  I've always found that if you pay close enough attention to your
Rover, it'll give you ample warning of pending trouble.  Except axles, that
is....

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

>Not sure which alternator you have, but the last time Mr. C did this to
>me the problem was a bad connection to the output lug on the back of the
>alternator.

>The lug had broken, and the light stayed on only as long as the bits were
>connected together...

>Sandy, check the connections on the back.

I'll check the connection for corrosion, but I doubt it has broken.  It's a
10 gauge wire (tinned marine multi-strand) with crimped, then soldered and
sealed connectors....

Hope I invoked Nigel's Disease.... Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:54:24 +0200
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

> lasts forever with no basic maintenance? Its like buying vitamins and then
> suing the pharmacist for not selling you immortality. Are they crazy, or
> what?

Paul, you obviously weren't happy with the flames from the engine 
thing!

I understand where you're coming from, and I think it is ridiculous 
for anyone to expect no corrosion on a vehicle as it ages.

I also know people in the UK who have had to replace doors on 
their new Discos within 2 years because of electrolytic reaction 
Al<>Fe. That doesn't seem reasonable to me, as there are vehicles 
out there made from identical materials by the same company 
which don't have that problem.  Land Rover have pretty much 
washed their hands of the whole thing and said "hard cheese", as 
far as I can tell.

I'd be mad as hell if a whole section of paint bubbled off my door 2 
years after a respray, let alone if it was a new vehicle.

It's similar to the guy who threatened to take LR to court because 
his LT85 fell apart at the bearings after 10,000 (hard) miles; the 
'box was defective, obviously not fit for purpose, and they ended up 
replacing it because he would have won.  Bodywork might not look 
like as big an issue, but people have certain expectations and if 
they aren't fulfilled things can get ugly.

All the best,

Andy
andyg@sherco.co.za, '79RR with no severe electrolytic reactions 
(yet!).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:24:08 -0500
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

15$ (+18$ controls+5 fuse holder/wire/misc.connectors+4/mounting kit)=42$
compare that to Kenlowe

> Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans
john, good post.  looks like a 6pack and junque-yard
weekend.  except, i have to get two cause i like to have
spares...  what did you pay for a 626 electric fan?

ray harder

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:23:01 -0600
Subject: Central America Expedition

First, I think such an expedition is exciting. However, I agree with Henry
that the merits of such a venture must be well thought out. In a situation
like the one they are facing in the hardest hit areas I agree that a bunch
of well-meaning "civilians" is probably not what they are looking for.

A better way to approach it would be to find a specific town or church that
has a specific need - i.e. the school was destroyed. The goal, then, of the
expedition is 1) visit Central America by road and 2) bring supplies and
manpower necessary to help rebuild the school. This would also involve
avoiding the hardest hit areas which is probably better since I know I am
not trained to deal with that type of environment.

I also think that amazing things can be done by a group of people with a
coordinated effort on a specific goal in a week or two, things that money
alone cannot do. If, for example, a lot of the serious relief workers are
operating in the hardest hit areas, than maybe our group of "amateurs" could
help fill in at those places that are not on the "dire" list but still need
help.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 07:32:10 -0800
Subject: FYI (Re: TWA)

>. +OK I'll bite, whats a TAW?
;
;>. TeriAnn Wakeman                    

;>Ummmm... OK guys who's going to tell her?

I assumed that the original poster was referring to me and my tendency to 
misunderstand things said in jest without a smily face or equivalent 
label then to easily become defensive.  

I was just wondering about the initials.

The 'A' is grabbed out of the middle of my first name.  Its like calling 
a guy named Richard Boone RHB.

My middle initial is 'J' making TJW.  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'

FYI

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Leger Marc-Andre <mleger@wefa.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:38:07 -0500
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

Any additional info or comments... this sounds like a great idea !!! I will
do this on my D90 unless someone comes up with a good reason not to !!!

I'm already concerned with the fan smashing up next time I go through 3 or
more feet of water... 

             / ,            |                        |
        /\  \|/  /\         | Marc-Andre Leger        |
        |\\_;=._//|         | Network Eng.             |
         \."   "./          | WEFA inc.                |
         //^\ /^\\          | 800 Baldwin Tower        |
  .'``",/ |0| |0| \,"``'.   | Eddystone Pennsylvania   |
 /   ,  `'\.---./'`  ,   \  | USA                      |
/`  /`\,."(     )".,/`\  `\ | 19022                    |
/`     ( '.'-.-'.' )     `\ | (610) 490-2763           |
/"`     "._  :  _."     `"\ | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com |
 `/.'`"=.,_``=``_,.="`'.\`  | http://www.wefa.com      |
           )   (            |                         |
 My roomate Tigger (the cat)|________________________|

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  Albert
Einstein  

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:42:17 -0800
Subject: engine cutting out

In a message dated 11/10/98 7:16:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Jpslotus27@aol.com writes:

<< <  My SIIa, 2.25 petrol, has developed a surging/misfire type of problem >>

That much of a swing on the ammeter would have me looking for a wire that
is shorting out causing the ignition to lose power also.
If it goes from + to 0 something loose, but + to - says something else.
Check around the areas you recently worked to see if you moved a wire that
now is  rubbing. Look for stiff/crisp/ cooked looking wire.
One more thing about the fuel possibility, someone mentioned the tank
pickup screen, don't forget the fuel pump sediment bowl. It has a screen at
the top that could plug.
I've bought new screens at British Pacific if you destroy yours accidently.

Good luck,
Bob Bernard

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:43 EST
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

In a message dated 98-11-11 09:07:38 EST, you write:

 I trust that none of the members of this list are involved (if you are;
 Shame, shame and shame again). What do these guys expect, a vehicle that
 lasts forever with no basic maintenance? Its like buying vitamins and
 then suing the pharmacist for not selling you immortality. Are they
 crazy, or what? >>

    Does anyone think that the reason LR is not a larger presence in the US is
because there is no market for their products?  America, Land of the Free,
Home of the Lawsuit.
    Reform the Courts!  Make the loser pay the winners court costs.  This will
NOT stop the poor from suing, but it should stop the stupid.
    Sorry, I do not want to start a thread here, but the 2 problems in the USA
as I see them are frivolous lawsuits and insurance companies (which exist for
the most part to protect us from frivolous lawsuits).  Solve these and you
feed the poor.
    No offense to Luis, unless your telephone number is 1-800-GET-PAID

enzo (Vote for ME for speaker of the house and there will be a 110 in every
pot)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:26:13 -0800
Subject: the vapors

john cranfield said:
>Subject: Re: Idiot can't troubleshoot
>>I don't have any written info on the weber but a fair bit of experience
>with it.
>     There are 3 main areas that could cause your problem.
>   1:  Vapour lock. These carbs are notorious for vapour lock when
>fitted to LandRovers. What happens essentially is that the fuel
>vapourizes in the line just before it gets to the float bowl of the
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>carb. This means that there isn't enough fuel pressure to full open the
>needle valve to fill the float bowl. There are ways to over come this.
Hi John, 
With what you describe I would wonder why the solex/zenith wouldn't also
have vapor lock? Why just weber? 
If the fuel vaporizes in the line, what does the carb brand have to do with
this?
I've heard that the routing of the line to the carb can cause the vapors
and someone even said using neoprene hose can add to it. So maybe that's
why Weber gets blamed?
I've had it a few times and would really like to know what the heck really
caused it.

Cheers,
Bob B

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Matthew Wilson <bogatyr@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:26:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

Right on!
  I read in R&T that Mercedes will not market a new convertible in the US
because of the possible lawsuits arising from operating the top.  (I was
putting the top up and there was no sign that said not to place your nose
in the mechanism!).  Neato.

At 11:19 AM 11/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-11-11 09:07:38 EST, you write:
> I trust that none of the members of this list are involved (if you are;
> Shame, shame and shame again). What do these guys expect, a vehicle that
> lasts forever with no basic maintenance? Its like buying vitamins and
> then suing the pharmacist for not selling you immortality. Are they
> crazy, or what? >>

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> crazy, or what? >>
>    Does anyone think that the reason LR is not a larger presence in the
US is
>because there is no market for their products?  America, Land of the Free,
>Home of the Lawsuit.
>    Reform the Courts!  Make the loser pay the winners court costs.  This
will
>NOT stop the poor from suing, but it should stop the stupid.
>    Sorry, I do not want to start a thread here, but the 2 problems in the
USA

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:29:05 -0700
Subject: Re: British Bulldog

CHris,

Talk to paul or Seth directly at Brit Bulldog. They are great guys and have
never let me down. Sometimes they get caught inbetween shipments and make
promises on delivery that they probably shouldn't. But they always do their
best for their customer.

John

Chris Stevens wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:36:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Central America Expedition

Here Here Tim, Henry is correct to an extent, but I feel gives a classicly
american civilian excuse for sitting idle. We could be of great help to a
specific purpose or group of people if we coordinate with a larger aid group,
and focus on a goal.

John

Tim Harincar wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:51:08 EST
Subject: Re:  British Bulldog

Chris,
Just got a package from 'em today--no probs.  Actually I haven't opened it
yet, and there's no telling what mistakes may lurk inside--they do seem to
screw up more often than most people I've ordered w/, but most of the ordering
I've done from BB was before they had their own catalog, so it's
understandable that there was lots of confusion over what part was needed,
esp. considering the low experience level of most of their personnel.  So,
yeah, I've been frustrated w/ them before (axle u-bolts shipped w/ nuts that
are wrong thread, wrong pinion seal for my Salisbury, brake drums that
squealed like you wouldn't believe until I got 'em turned), but their prices
are darn good and so I continue to use them, tho' I'm careful about what I
order from them.  If it's something tough to explain or find, I get it from RN
(partly b/c I feel like I oughtta buy something from them every so often b/c I
use their tech help every few mos. or so).

What's your BB story?

Bill Rice

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:53:29 -0800
Subject: Beaver Winch

One more try. Does anybody know anything about Beaver winches? I
recently got one from a friend, and don't know anything about it such as
capacity, maker, or even wire rope size, although it has 5/16, but how
do I know if that is right. How about you people in Oz? I found a
company that makes Beaver brand recovery products, but I can't get a
peep out of them. Might they be the makers? Does anybody know who the
original poster of a similar query last year was, as I can only find the
replies in the archives. The winch is a two speed 12 volt worm drive.
Any help would be appreciated.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" trying to chase beaver

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:22:02 EST
Subject: Re: Beaver Winch

   Beavers are pretty light.  Not much a winch would be needed, my guess.

Sorry.  Jim, my OD is doing exactly what your's did with regard to shifting.
It started out very stiff, then it shifted just right for a while, and now it
is difficult to shift out of OD.  Maybe it needs more fiddling with the
linkage?  How's your's been acting lately?  Any tips?

Thanks
Enzo

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:41
Subject: Re: 6 cylinder bulkhead

Steve Stoneham in Ontario Canada ("Steve Stoneham" <stoneham@kos.net>) had
a 6 cylinder bulkhead for sale.  Don't know the condition but must assume
some rust being from Eastern Canada.  Don't think he wanted much for it,
however.  This is a little stale so he may not have it any longer but if
you are going the six cylinder route, that might be a source for the bulkhead.
Aloha Peter

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:47:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Beaver Winch

Mine is shifting almost perfectly now. It started getting better after I
changed the oil and put synthetic oil in. I also overfilled it by about
1/4" on the dipstick. I'm not sure if the improvement came from the oil,
or from overfilling, but I'm keeping both. When it first was difficult
to shift out of od, I was able to do it by revving the engine while
shifting. I hope yours learns to behave.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

Jpslotus27@aol.com wrote:
    Beavers are pretty light.  Not much a winch would be needed, my
guess.
 
 Sorry.  Jim, my OD is doing exactly what your's did with regard to
shifting.
 It started out very stiff, then it shifted just right for a while, and
now it
 is difficult to shift out of OD.  Maybe it needs more fiddling with the
 linkage?  How's your's been acting lately?  Any tips?
 
 Thanks
 Enzo

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:59:17
Subject: Re: 6 cylinder bulkhead

Oops!!! this should have gone to to TeriAnn not to the whole list Sorry.

At 07:28 AM 11/11/98, you wrote:
>Steve Stoneham in Ontario Canada ("Steve Stoneham" <stoneham@kos.net>) had
>a 6 cylinder bulkhead for sale.  
>Aloha Peter

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:53:28 -0800
Subject: Re: TW - Transplants (engines)

I don't know about these engines, or the weight of the LR engine, but I
had a friend with an FJ40 who was going to swap engines. Turns out the
chevy 350 was a full 200 lbs lighter than the LC 6 cylinder.
Jim Hall

The Becketts wrote:

> >Here are my current top choices for an engine transplant:
> >- 292 GM six cylinder engine coupled to Borg Warner t-18
> >   transmission & LR transfer case
> That's a lot of weight, as is you other option of the 302 Ford engine.  What 
about a
> Chrysler (Plymouth) Valiant 225ci, 245ci or Hemi 265ci?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:51:10 +0200
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

Andy Grafton wrote:
> Bodywork might not look
> like as big an issue, but people have certain expectations and if
> they aren't fulfilled things can get ugly.

Yeah Andy, but I took the time to actually browse the photos they have
on the site (which, I would imagine, they intend to put forward as
examples of the lousy build quality) and some of them - particularly the
door hinge, which has apparently been scraped by some means down to bare
metal, and which has an entirely understandable spot of rust on it -
lend 'frivolous' far more credibility than it is due.

As far as expectations are concerned; let's face it Disco's aren't the
most luxurious of the crop of shopping trolley 4X4's out there, but they
aren't priced up there with the top of the range either. You pays your
money and you takes your chances.

(Hey, if that comment about the shopping trolley 4X4's doesn't get my
toes toasted nothing will!)
  
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Leger Marc-Andre <mleger@wefa.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:05:17 -0500
Subject: RE: Electric cooling fans

Just went to my local service garage (they do my oil changes and stuff) and
they can get me the parts to do this... unless I hear otherwise, it's Mazda
fan for me !  Sounds like a great way to go.

Thanks for the insight.

             / ,            |                        |
        /\  \|/  /\         | Marc-Andre Leger        |
        |\\_;=._//|         | Network Eng.             |
         \."   "./          | WEFA inc.                |
         //^\ /^\\          | 800 Baldwin Tower        |
  .'``",/ |0| |0| \,"``'.   | Eddystone Pennsylvania   |
 /   ,  `'\.---./'`  ,   \  | USA                      |
/`  /`\,."(     )".,/`\  `\ | 19022                    |
/`     ( '.'-.-'.' )     `\ | (610) 490-2763           |
/"`     "._  :  _."     `"\ | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com |
 `/.'`"=.,_``=``_,.="`'.\`  | http://www.wefa.com      |
           )   (            |                         |
 My roomate Tigger (the cat)|________________________|

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  Albert
Einstein  

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Keith Cutler <keith_cutler@csgsystems.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:29:33 -0700
Subject: Interesting Personal Land Rover Web Site

Here's a pretty good site, with well written narrative, photos, ideas,
modifications, etc.  Ignore the monkeys and background music if that
stuff bothers you!  Very extensive site.

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/5103/index2.html

Thanks.
Keith Cutler
1960 Series II SWB

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:32:15 -0600
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

>    Does anyone think that the reason LR is not a larger presence in the US
is
>because there is no market for their products?  America, Land of the Free,
>Home of the Lawsuit.
>    Reform the Courts!  Make the loser pay the winners court costs.  This
will
>NOT stop the poor from suing, but it should stop the stupid.
>    Sorry, I do not want to start a thread here, but the 2 problems in the
USA
>as I see them are frivolous lawsuits and insurance companies (which exist
for
>the most part to protect us from frivolous lawsuits).  Solve these and you
>feed the poor.

>    No offense to Luis, unless your telephone number is 1-800-GET-PAID
>enzo (Vote for ME for speaker of the house and there will be a 110 in every
>pot)

No offense taken, Enzo.
Our system differs greatly from the US. Here the looser pays the winners
costs. We dont see this kind of things that you people describe. (Maybe
thats why there are so many LR here? :-))
And, dont worry, I have a regular phone number and I'm usually on the other
side of the lawsuit, I work for a big construction company.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Devin Anderson <devin.anderson@haledorr.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:46:53 -0500
Subject: Tires

I have 16 inch wheels on my 109 5-door, but the tires are, I think,
205s.  Aren't 235s the more common size for 16 inch wheels?  The truck
seems to sit very low (in fact many people have asked whether I even
have 16 inch wheels on the truck).  Any good recommendations on
make/models for tires?
-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This e-mail message and any attachments are confidential
and may be attorney-client privileged.  If you are not
the intended recipient please notify Hale and Dorr LLP
immediately by telephone at (617) 526-5200 or by e-mail
to postmaster@haledorr.com, and destroy all copies of
this message and any attachments.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:03:31 -0500
Subject: FINSUPDATE: Turner go bang!

I've pretty quite around here recently and figured I'd best check in before 
you all send out a search party. I'm fine, but FINSUP ain't so good.

Two (three?) Sundays ago I was headed to my parents house to do some minor 
maintenance tasks (change instrument bulbs, etc.) on FINSUP. I was driving 
along the "Super 7 Extender" at highway speeds for about three miles. I 
began to hear a noise that seemed to be coming from the engine. I slowed 
down anyway and the noise went away for about 30 seconds. The noise started 
again--a little louder--and it seemed as if the engine was losing power. 
"Great." Super 7 ends at a stop light. It was red and not being a native of 
Connecticut, I actually stopped. When it turned green I pulled away--and 
noticed way less power and a big cloud of blue smoke pouring from the 
exhaust pipe. "Uh-oh, this is NOT good."

I pulled over, called AAA, and had the vehicle towed to my mechanic's shop. 
The next morning he called to report they'd discovered a bent push rod. 
Rovers North shipped a replacement and it was installed the next day. Motor 
turned nicely by hand, but there was not static compression on #2. Down 
comes the pan--and we learn that the #2 piston had broken into two pieces.

As it currently stands Rovers North, true to reputation, is standing 100% 
behind the replacing the engine and covering all shipping charges. However 
(and I only know this through RN, I haven't made direct contact yet) Turner 
seems to think that there's no way that this was caused by a defective part 
and that something must have been screwed up during installation. 
Inspection of the rest of the bits indicates no unusual wear and no signs 
of detonation. Valves are all still true to adjustment.

To be fair, Rovers North hasn't seen the blown motor yet--it should be on 
its way up to them sometime this week--so they haven't been able to report 
their findings to Turner. I don't want to point any fingers at this early 
stage. However, at this time I'm on the hook for the labor charges involved 
in another engine swap.

To make matters worse, having completed what will now be known as the 
*first* Turner Project, I gave my Acura away to a family member in need. 
Bottom line, had to go out and buy a car last week--six months earlier than 
I'd planned on doing so--and there's a 'new' German cousin to FINSUP 
sitting in the garage. Which doesn't suck, but could have come at a 
financially more convenient time...

Stay tuned for more news.

RoverOn!

jab
==
 Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT
                  jeff@purpleshark.com
                   ==================
	I'm looking for a smart woman in a real short skirt...
				--Jimmy Buffett, Smart Woman
	...and her own complete set of SnapOn tools,
		plus the know-how to use them!
			     --Jeff Berg, Broken Rover Blues

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: hstin@cts.com (Henry Stinson)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Aid Expedition

Hello,  
        Tim, etc. point taken.  I can see the merits of such a trip in some
time to come.  What I wrote wasn't motivated by an American reluctance to
get involved, but, more my Canadian practicality.  I've been following this
tradgedy on the news and have donated locally.  At this point I think the
money I would spend travelling to the area would serve the needs of the area
and its people much better.  The news footage clearly calls for immediate
aid.  I guess my comments were short-sighted and reactionary.  I'll blame it
on my limited years.
          I hoped to travel by Rover to the area in the coming year and if
plans go ahead (finances, time etc.) I am interested in getting involved...... 

                                                        Henry Stinson
                                                        '73 SWB SHED 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:55:02 -0000
Subject: Re: Expedition Rovers

sounds to me like you need a roof tent (some will fit on a SWB) or a Kyam
quick erect.
I have the German version of the Kyam and get many envious glances when I'm
cooking while others are still trying to put the tent up....
and as far as hot food goes, there's no weight premium in a small
backpackers cooker, and hot food sure makes life worth living at 10pm in the
dark at -10 below on a Welsh mountain after a hard days' off-roading

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+
            I !__|  [_]|_\___
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:37:21 -0000
Subject: Re: My new rig (was: Santanna...)

Fred,
sounds like a nice winter project.
All you need to do now is source a decent Ford, Toyota or Chevy engine and
you'll have a fine vehicle there..... :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+
            I !__|  [_]|_\___
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:24:41 -0500
Subject: re: LRO archive expert

Jeff Jackson posted a response to the "tools I carry" thread on January 14, 
1998.

You can do your own archive search at http://Land-Rover.Team.Net/disco/. 
(Note that the most recent months aren't always indexed--it's somewhere on 
Bill Caloccia's ToDo list though.) If you want to read the archived 
digests, start at Year-1998/index.html.

RoverOn!

jab
==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	Your loss is measured in illusions, your gain is
	all in bittersweet intelligence,
	And your winsome smile will lose some of its
	innocence
		     --Chris Smither, Winsome Smile

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Damon Schimming" <DamonKC@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:24:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Honduran Expedition/Relief Trip Criticism Repsonse

Dear Lorri,

Certainly there is a need of immediate aid following every type of disaster.
However, I suggest those who are closed minded about the full aid issues
after such a disaster read the article to be found at the following address:

http://www.disasternews.net/howtohelp/goodways.shtml

This article, entitled Good Ways to Help, covers the six phases of aid
needed following disasters.  Most agencies responding to disasters recognize
stages such as emergency response, relief, recovery, mitigation and
prevention, and preparedness.  I'm not insinuating that a trek to Honduras
is the only way one can be of assistance to those people.  Money collected
now and sent down through one of the many agencies is certainly a great way
to help with the current needs.  As a matter of fact, I seriously doubt that
any visas would be given to someone traveling to volunteer right now.  With
the lack of water, food and sleeping quarters, not to mention the disease
issues, only highly trained personnel should consider such and endeavor.

This need for immediate aid hopefully will subside over the next few months.
Following the initial emergency response and relief periods, the need for
recovery will be just as important.  This is a phase in which volunteers can
really be of assistance.  Some estimates are that the hurricane has set back
the economic development in Honduras by 20 years.  The health and morale
support needs of an already impoverished country will be high.  This is were
the group I'm trying to assemble will be of assistance.  We have at least
one dentist and one physician interested in donating their vacation time to
treat those with needs while we are there.  I will be coordinating with
local officials to establish medical sites for them and hope to find other
rebuilding projects, like reconstructing a school, etc., that those of us
not trained to provide medical care can assist with.  Sure, this type of aid
doesn't sound as important right now, but in many areas medical and dental
needs were there before the hurricane.  We're not going to save the world,
but if we can make one town, or even one child, feel like we care about them
and make them smile, then we will have accomplished something.

Also, the plan is for this to be a working vacation.  We will take some time
to see the country and experience the beauty of Honduras.  You may be
thinking that this is selfish or short of the needs they have now.  To this
I say: "Get your checkbook out."  If you feel that the best way for YOU to
assist with the problems in Honduras is to send money, then "JUST DO IT."
Personally, I've sent a check to Catholic Relief Services, the official
overseas relief and development agency of the U.S. Catholic community.
While emergency response to alleviate immediate suffering is a major focus,
CRS also works with local communities in over 2,000 development projects
designed to build self-sufficiency.  CRS works to strict standards of
efficiency and accountability, with over 90% of support going directly to
programs in the field.  If you to would like to provide financial support to
Honduras via CRS, call them at 800-736-3467 for more information.  However,
don't criticize those of us who choose to assist in other ways, beyond
financial aid, which will be just as important.  Again, the writer of that
post is partially correct, the immediate need is for cash.  I'm not trying
to stop those who may choose to assist in this way.  Those who really know
what the needs of these people are, like my aunt who has been a missionary
for several years near Choluteca, Honduras, recognize that the initial aid
will only be a Band-Aid.  Full recovery will take years.

To those who feel it is their duty to spread negative information regarding
the trek I and others are working on, I'd like for them to think back to
what their mother used to say:  "Unless you have something nice to say,
don't say anything at all."  If you think we can't be of any help, then why
do thousands of missionaries around the world give of themselves every
single day of the year.  In my heart in know that God will lead us to those
who need our help.  We may not be the most qualified group that makes it's
way to Honduras next year, but the dollars we'll spend on hotels and food
alone will be of benefit.  The way I see it, there is no way for us to be of
any harm to those people.  How we choose to spend our personal vacation
dollars and time, and the real world experiences we want for our children,
is a decision for each of us to make.  Just out of curiosity, how will your
vacation benefit others this year?

I pray that the Holy Spirit moves each and every one of us in his or her own
way.

Damon M. Schimming
'93 D110
'95 D90 SW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: FYI (Re: TWA)

> I was just wondering about the initials.
> My middle initial is 'J' making TJW.  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'

 Poor TeriAnn. you just can't win. Now we find that as a kid you were
named after a Jeep. :) :)
    John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:43:00 EST
Subject: Re: Aid Expedition

In a message dated 98-11-11 14:12:04 EST, you write:

<< I hoped to travel by Rover to the area in the coming year and if
 plans go ahead (finances, time etc.) I am interested in getting
involved...... 
  >>

   Having been to post-hurricane areas many times, be assured that there will
be work to do and people very willing to accept it for months (even years) to
come.  The work party would probably be best put off until then, because the
desires of the victims as of right now are food, water, and basic shelter.
Survival, in short.  In the months to come, these people will be looking for
help clearing debris, opening back roads, repairing / rebuilding out-
buildings, etc.  This is the type of work which a small group can accomplish a
lot without feeling like we are in the way.  
    Perhaps a mid-winter drive would be nice?  

Enzo 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:46:39 -0400
Subject: Re: the vapors

Bob and Sue Bernard wrote:
> john cranfield said:
> >Subject: Re: Idiot can't troubleshoot
> >>I don't have any written info on the weber but a fair bit of experience
>          [ truncated by lro-lite (was 11 lines)]
> >carb. This means that there isn't enough fuel pressure to full open the
> >needle valve to fill the float bowl. There are ways to over come this.
> Hi John,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> I've had it a few times and would really like to know what the heck really
> caused it.
 I don't know why the Weber is so prone to vapour lock, just that it is.
It might have something to do with the little fuel filter that is next
to the needle valve. I have played with all sorts of routing of the fuel
lines  without much success. I now have a spill line that returns to the
tank and that has cured it.  
    John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:48:36 EST
Subject: Re: FYI (Re: TWA)

In a message dated 98-11-11 14:38:48 EST, you write:

 > I was just wondering about the initials.
 > My middle initial is 'J' making TJW.  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'
 
  Poor TeriAnn. you just can't win. Now we find that as a kid you were
 named after a Jeep. :) :)
      >>

Better than being cute little "Series II" Wakeman (or series 1 of you are the
first born)

Enzo (My wife nicknamed me shit-head, but says it with love)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:22:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Tires

At 01:46 PM 11/11/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I have 16 inch wheels on my 109 5-door, but the tires are, I think,
>205s.  Aren't 235s the more common size for 16 inch wheels?  The truck
>seems to sit very low (in fact many people have asked whether I even
>have 16 inch wheels on the truck).  Any good recommendations on
>make/models for tires?
  
 It would be very difficult to eyeball a difference of 1/2"
 rise on a truck due to different rim sizes, I'm impressed.
 (Who are these 'people', your girlfriend? ;)

 The 16" rim is probably only 5.5" wide, so a 235 (9.25") wide
 tire is at the limit.  The 205 (8") or 215 (8.5") tires are
 more normal.

-M 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:29:26 -0500
Subject: re: Tires

FINSUP is shoed with 235/85R16's. YMMV.

RoverOn!

jab
==
 Jeffrey A. Berg    Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                   jeff@purpleshark.com
	Look what happens when you love someone,
	and they don't love you.
                             --Warren Zevon, The Heartache

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:37:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Interesting Personal Land Rover Web Site

At 11:29 AM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Here's a pretty good site, with well written narrative, photos, ideas,
>modifications, etc.  Ignore the monkeys and background music if that
>stuff bothers you!  Very extensive site.
>http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/5103/index2.html

 That looks like Michael Slade's <slade@DreamLab.cc> old
 Series LR in the story.

-Michael

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: hstin@cts.com (Henry Stinson)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Aid Expedition....

Hello,
        Ease off Damon.  I assume I am the one you feel is distributing the
negative propaganda.  If you read my posts in context I was refering to the
initial call to Rover owners to re-open supply routes and distribute aid.
>From what I've seen on the news this was clearly beyond the capabilities of
a group of Rover owners in small useful load vehicles. 
        Furthermore, I used "I", "me", "in my opinion" throughout what I
wrote.  How anyone could have read my post and felt it was an attack on aid
efforts in general and of those planning the trip is beyond me.  
        Perhaps I misunderstand the spirit of the list.  I am in my last
term of University and understand a discussion to be a forum where people
get together and exchange ideas and opinions.  I feel my post was clearly in
the spirit of such discussion and I have received posts and email since from
those with more experience and regional insight.  As a result this prompted
subsequent posts by myself.
        I'll refrain from being a smartass.  Perhaps I didn't hear "if you
haven't got anything nice to say, say nothing at all" enough.  But I heard
"nobody likes a smartass" atleast once a week. (humour, :-), not intended to
provoke but to lighten things up) Later.....

                                                          Henry Stinson 
                                                           '73 SWB SHED

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:26:11 -0000
Subject: Re: FINSUPDATE: Turner go bang!

Jeffrey,
oh sh*t mate. There really isn't a good time to have an engine go bang. Some
of us have been there and are rooting for you...

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+
            I !__|  [_]|_\___
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:38:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Diesels Temperature

  Just make sure it is the skirted double acting thermostat.

> << So this should mean that I could use the 92 C termostate I recently bought
>  (to give better heat in the car during the Swedish winter) wothout worrying
>  in my 2.25L diesel? I think the original is something like 73 C.
> Calculating on all my fingers and toes that appears to be 196 F. Might be a
> little high. I run a 180 F t-stat in my 2.25 petrol year round. I tried a 190
> in it and that was a little too much.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:44:32 -0500
Subject: Re: TW - Transplants (engines)

My recollection was that the Chevy 6 was a clone of a Bedford (Vauxhall) truck 
unit .
Bedford of course being owned by GM.

john cranfield wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:30:03 -0800
Subject: For Sale 101FC and Powered trailer

Hi all,

The 101FC and powered trailer are for sale.
Don't really want to, but have to, before anyone asks why I'm selling.
Complete bare metal strip, zinc chromate primer, and Bronze Green
respray. Winch overhauled, S/S exhaust, S/S Fuel tank, New Canvas top,
Range Rover High ratio xfer gears-65mph cruise, Electric rad fan, new
seals everywhere-NO leaks,new seats, inertia reel belts, LOTS of spares.
Legal license and title in Oregon, tags through 2000. Complete Army
history documented. The truck is about 85% restored to showroom and has
no faults. Ask anyone who was at the Field Leak in Portland this year,
the truck is very nice. Also included, the #3 prototype Rubery-Owen
powered trailer. One of only 3 known to exist, I've restored it as well.
Sandblast, etch-primed, Bronze Green paint. Complete, and
unduplicateable piece of Land Rover history, I'm asking $25K or best
offer, pics can be seen at:

http://www.dreamlab.cc/rovers_frames_page.html  Click on the bottom link

or at British Pacific's web site at:

http://www.britishpacific.com/icaweb/britpac.nsf/134ba6348262e5dc882564360005fc7
f/f9022f10069fe4d688256679006e88e6?OpenDocument

email direct or call.
Rgds
Mike
mfredett@ichips.intel.com
503-613-5212

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:35:52 -0700
Subject: Re: FYI (Re: TWA)

  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'
There you have it folks....straight from the horse's mouth!  TJ it is.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:42:16 EST
Subject: Re:  Tires

Yeah, get 235/85-16s.  They seem to me to be just the right size for a Rover
w/ 16 in. rims.  I love mine.   If yours is sitting low, though, you might
want to look at new springs.

Bill

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Chris Stevens <chrisste@clark.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:39:36 +0000
Subject: Re: British Bulldog

Wonder of all wonders...tha valve seats from British Bulldog magically
appeared at my door today. Now on to the machine shop to see if
everything fits. Thanks for your comments.

Chris

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:42:09 EST
Subject: Re:  British Bulldog

Wow, everyone.  Sorry to have posted that semi-anti-BB message to the general
list; meant it to go directly to Chris.  Oops.

The package I got today contained every last item I ordered--all the right
bits.

Bill Rice

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Stephen C. West-Fisher" <westfish@gte.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:57:57 +0000
Subject: Re: a favor from the group(s)....

> Date:          Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:23:18 -0400
> From:          john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
> Reply-to:      lro@playground.sun.com
> To:            lro@playground.sun.com
> X-To:          lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:       Re: a favor from the group(s)....

> Wilson, Scott wrote:
> > Well, I have to ask for a favor... I am going to be in England and Paris
> > for about four weeks from Nov 23rd to Dec 23rd. I live in Brookyln,
> 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 15 lines)]
> > so anyway... thanks to anyone in advance... I have to warn you...
> > you will have another three grease spots in your driveway...
> Scott if you would like to start your European odessy from Halifax

Well, it's winter up north, I'm sure he'd rather leave it in St. Pete 
Beach in Florida. Commercial service is Tampa, Clearwater/St. Pete, 
or Bradenton. I'd also be happy to deliver him from Peter O Knight if 
he doesn't mind flying in a Piper Cherokee.

No one will mind a few more old spots here at the marina, and I would 
promise to drive it every day seeing as how my motor is currently 
marooned in Maine.
Steve
westfish@gte.net

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Ian Vowles <Ian@modricusa.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:18:50 -0700
Subject: Suspend mail

Help !

Idiot that I am I cannot find anywhere the correct method to set my mail to
hold during planned absence.

Couldn't find it on the website , couldn't find it as a trailer after any
messages - so conclude it was sent originally as instructions when
subscription was approved. If so it now resides in the same place as most
of my data from last 2 years .... :-(

Could you either suspend my mail or send me copy of the instructions.

Many thanks,

Ian
But I do have my original 1966 S11A manual and USA price list !!

Ian Vowles, Modric Inc
Gone West Ranch.
86b Ranch Place, Pagosa Springs
Colorado 81147. Tel : 970-731-4062 Fax : 970-731-4064
Email - Ian@modricusa.com , Ian@modric.net

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:40:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Aid Expedition....

Henry,
Seems I should take responsibility for having pissed Damon off.  I read your
post, hadn't thought of it from that point of view.  As Damon is a club
local here, didn't know if he had read it or not.  So I forwarded your post
to him, thinking it was well written and good food for thought.  Nothing
more.  I seem to have unwittingly quite raised his dander.  Sorry if it was
aimed at you.  Sheesh, I didn't see anything in your post or mine that was
unpolite in the least.  The best of intentions.....   

Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Coniston Green D90 SW
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW
'93 D110

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:57:46 -0500
Subject: re: Tires

At 16:29 11/11/98 -0500, Jeff wrote:
>FINSUP is shoed with 235/85R16's. YMMV.

The same upgrade as that on the LROI 90 that was discussed in the mag some
time ago, and the same as I plan to do next month.
Note the need to change the T/X box gear to retain real miles, or km.
Allan 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:18:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Hub nut!

The LR Manual says 10-15 foot pounds.  

I held the torque wrench stationary and turned the hub by hand to get the
recommended torque.  Even so, the hole for the split pin was too far out.
So I compromised and backed it off enough to get the split pins situated
correctly.

HTH
Todd
'71 88" SIIA  "Fantod"

At 12:06 PM 11/11/98 +0000, you wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:19:50 EST
Subject:  Re: Aid Expedition....

If I might make a suggestion.....  when we went to Belize last year, we worked
with Rivers of the World and Ben Mathes.  Ben knows the area extensively and
has many, many contacts.  See Tom Allen's article (and some of my pictures) in
the Feb '98 LRO.  At least I think it was Feb!

I fully believe that every organization from the NRA to MADD to NOW to March
of Dimes is about giving someone a job.  Most of them do some amount of good
work.  ROW is not an exception but Ben really does good work.  He's something
of a huckster but a real adventurer.

www.row.org if you're interested.  I'm sure he'd love to have the assistance.
When Mitch was bearing down on that part of the world, I was on Ben's mail
list reading his posts about getting ready for it in Orange Walk Belize.  

I just e-mailed off my accounts of our trip to Chris Browne for their club
newsletter.  Hope the members of that club enjoys it.  While I wouldn't
necessarily recommend it, the drive from Laredo to Belize or Brownsville to
Belize is quite nice but, again, it's a heck of a long ways.  But there's
something to be said to being able to visit Mayan ruins arriving in your won
LR!

Take care....
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'63 Series IIA88" SW  " Soldado Sangrando"
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (interior currently in pieces)
'73 Series III 88" Soft top "Basil"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'95 Disco "Great White"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Neil Sheridan" <neilsheridan@nac.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:58:12 -0500
Subject: Fixing Kodiak Heater Complaints

Kirk Hillman finds his Kodiak insufficient for Canada...

Kirk, when I first got mine, I found it unsatisfactory for New Jersey.
Here's what I did:

1.  Discovered that the pivoting plate just inside the air intake on the
blower side of the box was nearly shut.  Jammed it wide open.

1a. Replaced the partially open (stuck) hot water flow valve with a
faucet-style valve.  Open it all the way in November, close it in May.
Reopen as needed for summer fog, rain, etc.

2.  Installed a new 20 amp switch.  Kept the old push - pull switch on the
dash for appearances.  Blower now blows instead of puffs.

3.  Corrected the lack of an air intake hose -- DPO was sourcing his heated
cabin air from the engine compartment.  Ran a length of heater intake hose
(3" or so wide) under the battery tower to the breakfast, where on the II
and IIA's there is a matching metal ring to snug it down against.  This
provides a boost to the blower's airflow at highway speeds.  In the summer,
it provides a cool air flow to the feets.

These steps totally cured my complaints.  I know your weather is far more
extreme than ours, but I had no complaints during trips to Maine.

As Jeff Jackson can attest, at prolonged highway speeds, you could cook a
steamship roast in front of those heater doors.  For short hops down to your
Esso / Exxon convenience store, however, you'll have to rely on your parka.

Neil Sheridan

65 SWB SW (formerly the Sheridan Valdez, presently under reconstruction as
the "Dreadnought")

56 S1 109 Pickup (the "Anti-Christine")

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:19:43 -0800
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

While I don't disagree that cleaning up the issues you mention, the
real issue that causes frivolous lawsuits is a lack of morals in the
body legal, and most importantly the stupidity of the average american
(sorry if that offends you, but I consider myself above the average
intelligence level of most americans). Who wouldn't sue if you have a
great chance to win several million dollars from a company by way of
the idiot juries who award ridiculous amounts of money for things that
anybody with an ounce of intelligence wouldn't do. ( McDonald's hot
coffee lawsuit is a perfect example: only an idiot would buy *hot*
coffee, but it between their legs while driving, squeeze it or spill
it, and feel that they have a reason to sue McD.s for not warning them
that they could be scaulded by said hot liquid. That should have been
thrown out of court upon the first reading by the judge.) It seems
people are looking for ways to injure themselves in ways that
companies have failed to consider so as to collect.

Sorry, but this suewage(sic) steams my beans (coffee???)

Soapbox off...

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Jeff and Chris Jackson" <jcjcj88@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:49:18 -0800
Subject: Kodiak heater prowess

Neil Sheridan wrote: As Jeff Jackson can attest, at prolonged highway
speeds, you could cook a steamship roast in front of those heater doors.

I do so attest, swear and affirm.  During a *long* ride with Neil (and what
ride with Neil isn't, really) from Maine to Connecticut, his Kodiak gave me
a case of inverted heatstroke, localized in the feet.  At one point I
actually sat cross-legged, feet up on the seat, just to escape that damned
thing.  And the fan was off.

Jeff

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:18:49 EST
Subject: Alternate Land Rover Engines

Among the list of domestic engines to evaluate, do not overlook the Ford 300
(4.92l) inline six.  Plenty of power,  common as dirt , parts easy to find in
North America.  This is a real truck engine.  Have one in my old beater
pickup; 320,000 miles & still running well.   

Paul Donohue

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:08:34 -0800
Subject: RE: Class action cr*p

While I don't disagree that cleaning up the issues you mention, the
real issue that causes frivolous lawsuits is a lack of morals in the
body legal, and most importantly the stupidity of the average american
(sorry if that offends you, but I consider myself above the average
intelligence level of most americans). Who wouldn't sue if you have a
great chance to win several million dollars from a company by way of
the idiot juries who award ridiculous amounts of money for things that
anybody with an ounce of intelligence wouldn't do. ( McDonald's hot
coffee lawsuit is a perfect example: only an idiot would buy *hot*
coffee, but it between their legs while driving, squeeze it or spill
it, and feel that they have a reason to sue McD.s for not warning them
that they could be scaulded by said hot liquid. That should have been
thrown out of court upon the first reading by the judge.) It seems
people are looking for ways to injure themselves in ways that
companies have failed to consider so as to collect.

Sorry, but this suewage(sic) steams my beans (coffee???)

Soapbox off...

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

 >  Subject: Re: Class action cr*p
 >
 >  In a message dated 98-11-11 09:07:38 EST, you write:
  >      Does anyone think that the reason LR is not a larger
 >  presence in the US is
 >  because there is no market for their products?  America,
 >  Land of the Free,
 >  Home of the Lawsuit.
 >      Reform the Courts!  Make the loser pay the winners
 >  court costs.  This will
 >  NOT stop the poor from suing, but it should stop the stupid.
 >      Sorry, I do not want to start a thread here, but the
 >  2 problems in the USA
 >  as I see them are frivolous lawsuits and insurance
 >  companies (which exist for
 >  the most part to protect us from frivolous lawsuits).
 >  Solve these and you
 >  feed the poor.
 >      No offense to Luis, unless your telephone number is
 >  1-800-GET-PAID
 >
 >  enzo (Vote for ME for speaker of the house and there will
 >  be a 110 in every
 >  pot)
 >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:45:06 +0200
Subject: Re: Class action cr*p

> Yeah Andy, but I took the time to actually browse the photos they have on
> the site (which, I would imagine, they intend to put forward as examples

Paul I also noticed the door hinge, but I would assume that the 
lawyer(s) in charge will vet the pictures and try to acquire better 
evidence before they go to court.  Ditto for the "tailgate" picture 
which has no joins Fe<>Al where the corrosion is shown...  It 
doesn't give a very good impression of the case, but the problem is 
there nonetheless.

Whilst the Disco isn't the most expensive shopping trolley on the 
block, you still don't expect the thing to end up losing paint 
quickly; I spent only R35K on a Fiat Uno "Value" I would not 
expect it to do that, even though it is the cheapest of cheap.

> (Hey, if that comment about the shopping trolley 4X4's doesn't
> get my toes toasted nothing will!)

Oooops... there I go perpetuating it!

All the best,

Andy
andyg@sherco.co.za, '79RR

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:50:41 +0200
Subject: TJ with 12k attachment

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> My middle initial is 'J' making TJW.  Growing up my nickname was 'TJ'

OK, this is absolutely all you'll hear from me on this thread, and
you'll have to excuse the attachment (it's only a 12k GIF). "TJ" is the
name of a comic strip which usually features in the motoring section of
our local rag - TJ used to be the first two letters of the vehicle
registrations for Johannesburg (T for Transvaal and J for Johannesburg).

I don't even want to suggest that the attached GIF is in any way
indicative of "our" other TJ, but the text reads "The trouble is you've
got a 200km/h foot with a 10km/h brain!" :-)

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:32:12 +0200
Subject: Includes 12k attachment. Don't open if you don't want it!

Paul Oxley wrote:
> OK, this is absolutely all you'll hear from me on this thread, and
> you'll have to excuse the attachment (it's only a 12k GIF). "TJ" is the

OK, real bright, I didn't attach the attachment. Here goes
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: image/gif; ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 224 lines.]	

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Olafur Agust Axelsson <olafura@ti.is>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:15:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Hub nut!

So the nut should be tightened a bit! - Ok that makes sense! - but I
still felt that the axle didnt go into the diff far enough - only a few
millimeters - I took the replacement axle from a ´73 SWB S3 - They both
have -  I think its called Rover type axle housing! - at least it looked
the same! - Is it possible that the axles are diffrent - the S3 axle
being a bit shorter?

Any comments?

Olafur Agust

Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net> said:
>The LR Manual says 10-15 foot pounds.  
>I held the torque wrench stationary and turned the hub by hand to get >the
>recommended torque.  Even so, the hole for the split pin was too far >out.
>So I compromised and backed it off enough to get the split pins >situated
>correctly.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:30:03 +0200
Subject: Re: Doesn't include 12k attachment.

Sorry all, I'm having a 'difficult' day!

If you want to look at the cartoon goto
http://adventures.co.za/landy/doodads.

Sorry again for trashing all the bandwidth :-(
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 75 lines 3900 [forwarded 290 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 2262 [content 1894  forwarded 264 (cut  26) whitespace 0]

Digest Messages Copyright 1990-1999 by the original poster or/and Empire Rover Owners Society, All rights reserved. Photos & text Copyright 1990-1999 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Empire/LRO List of charges for Empire/LRO Policies against the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Empire/LRO fees for the distribution of unsolicited commercial e-mail (aka SPAM). Frequently Asked Questions
<--Back	HOME	TOP	Forward -->	height=31 width=88 alt="Made with Macintosh" border=0>