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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:28:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Rear Chassis Member Handles

Peter in my wilder youth I did quite a bit of travel in Central Africa and
quickly learned the utility of those handles. On getting stuck in the mud -
a not infrequent occurance - one was often surrounded by enthusiastic
locals who would bounce the rover onto firmer ground. Most working rovers
in the area had upward inclined handles from this treatment. Ray

----------
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Rear Chassis Member Handles
> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 7:09 PM
> Aloha everyone.
> Have not seen mention of these before so I just had to ask.  What is the
> purpose for the two handles mounted at the rear of the Rover?  I can just

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> purpose for the two handles mounted at the rear of the Rover?  I can just
> see someone who may be a quarter short using them as a recovery point. 
Do

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From: "Kent J. Shih" <calypso@tankong.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:26:13 -0800
Subject: Seat belts for 2nd row seats?

Are there seats belts available from Land Rover for 2nd row seats?  I
looked in the Series III parts catalog and couldn't find anything.  Has
any one tried to fitting after market parts?

Thank you for your info.

-- 
Kent J. Shih  \_____              DħħħħħħħĴ
calypso@tankong.com \__       _==/_|_|_|_]|
TEL: (425) 672-0281    \___  | _ | | / _'||]
FAX: (425) 640-6607________\_Ż(İ)ŻŻŻŻŻ(İ)Ż____.__\|/__._.___\|/_.__

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 98 07:13:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Rear Chassis Member Handles

>Aloha everyone.
>Have not seen mention of these before so I just had to ask.  What is the
>purpose for the two handles mounted at the rear of the Rover?  I can just
;>see someone who may be a quarter short using them as a recovery point.  
Do
;>they serve a purpose?  Why not just remove them?

Think back to the days of yore when short wheel base LRs had an 80 inch 
wheelbase and the cars weighted very little with the hard top removed.  
If you were out on expedition or in the South forty with a bunch of 
buddies and you get stuck in the mud your buddies are supposed to get 
behind your rear wheels, lift and push to get you freed.  Sorry I do not 
know how they are supposed to get the flung mud off. But the act 
obligated you to get muddy when they got stuck in the same place 
following you.

Since then the Rovers have gotten heavier, & people less willing to get 
mud all over their Gortex wind breakers.  I think you can consider them 
inherited appendages who's original usefulness has been left behind 
during Land Rover evolution.

On the other hand, some people use them as a base for mounting a high 
lift jack.  Others use it to mount the spade end of a spade that they 
carry on the rear.

The ones on my car were replaced by holders for European style gerry cans 
before I purchased her.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: "Blair Gillespie" <blairg@fix.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:01:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Series III colors

Good Morning,
    Thanks for the response to my question. I have heard Poppy red, Masai
red, and I even spent the 40 bucks to get the heritage trust certificate to
tell what color it should be and it came back saying Red. Is there a
difference between Masai Red and the Poppy red?
Thanks
Blair

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From: Ian Harper/Donna-Claire McLeod <tantramar@golden.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:56:30 +0000
Subject: Synchro unit

When reassembling the box, how much play is there (I'd guess you'd call
it end float) where the clutch sleeve is?  Between the two conical races
at each end the whole unit moves about a quarter of an inch.  Does this
sound about right? Or should it be tight up against each side so that
the inner sleeve is the only thing that moves?   

There are no extra pieces lying about on the garage floor, and the bell
housing fits snug, so I can't see anything else in there that should
take up the space to make it snug, if needed.  Of course I can't
remember how much play there was when I took it out, but then again
maybe that was part of the problem with it.

Any help would be appreciated....

Cheers, Ian
-- 
Ian Harper/Donna Claire McLeod
http://www.golden.net/~tantramar
Tantramar House Bed and Breakfast
Stratford, Ontario
Phone(519) 273-7771  Fax (519) 273-3993

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:59:11 -1000
Subject: Re: Rear Chassis Member Handles

>guys can get an 88 out of with bare hands! I think the original term for
>them is "lifting handles."

I saw this term in the parts manual and thought maybe they meant to lift the
rear member into place and hold while it was being welded.  How ever this
seemed almost stupid to me.  I see now what they are for.  I like what TA
said about maybe using one for a shovel mount
Aloha
Pete

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:23:50 -0800
Subject: Re: Concrete Island Rovers

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:56:16 -1000
Subject: Concrete Island Rovers

>Live up in Pacific Palisades in Pearl City.

Back in the 1970s after I bought my Series III, I and a friend would often
drive far back up in the hills behind the sugar and pineapple fields near
Wahiawa.  I think that's the right place, near Schofield Army Barraks; my
Hawaii place name memory is fading.  Anyway, if you went far enough back
through the fields you could eventually get onto the military training roads
that ran way back into the hills (Koolau Range).  Great off-roading back
there, unless the Army was conducting maneuvers.  We once came around a
curve to almost run head on into a tank.  The tank officers were a bit
miffed that we were back there, and escorted us to the field headquarters.
It must have been an interesting sight, a couple of tanks with an
all-Limestone Series III trundling along between them.

Anyway, when the commanding officer found out both I and my friend worked
for KGMB-TV, he was far more interested in hearing about Linda Cobol, our
pretty news anchor, than he was in the fact that we'd been driving around on
government property.  They let us go with a warning to not be driving around
up there when they were having maneuvers.  As he didn't say we couldn't
drive around up there EVER, we returned many times, but made sure it was on
a day, usually Sunday, when there were no maneuvers going on.  I'm curious
if you've ever checked out any of these roads?

>My wife has seen two 109's with base
stickers running around also.  One with an 88 top on it.  I am very
surprised by the number of Rovers on the concrete island.  Thats five here
now that I know off.  Hmm, maybe I can get a Rovers Club together.

While Land Rovers were relatively rare on Oahu while I lived there in the
'60s and '70s, there were a few.  One in particular was a blue/white diesel
Series IIa.  The owner used to buy his fuel at the Ala Wai Yacht Harbor
because there were no road taxes on marine fuel at that time.  The rest of
us were paying 65 cents or so a gallon, and he was paying about 30 cents a
gallon.  There were quite a few Land Rovers on the Big Island, however, as
that's where the last dealership had been located in the very early '70s.
The Parker Ranch bought a number of them, as did many local individuals.  I
suspect a lot of the ex-Parker Land Rovers might still be around, although
probably in pretty bad shape.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:33:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Series III colors

From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:36:12 EST
Subject: Re: Series III colors

In a message dated 98-10-30 11:48:43 EST, you write:

<<  "Limestone," although some people,
 including the dealer I bought my Series III from, called the off-white
 "Desert Sand." >>

>Limestone and Desert Sand were two very distinct colors. The Limestone, as
you
state, was a cream or off-white color while the Desert sand was a darker tan
color and actually quite attractive IMHO.

I never knew that.  I've seen perhaps one or two Series Land Rovers in the
darker tan color, but I always assumed they had been resprayed.  The dealer
from whom I ordered my new Series III refered to the Limestone color as
"Desert Sand," and it wasn't until I started buying parts later that year
from the original Atlantic British in California (Tom Gannon), that I
learned the color of my Land Rover was really "Limestone."  At that point, I
just assumed Desert Sand was a misnomer used by some people.  While I still
have all the sales brochures and stuff from back then, it' s not readily at
hand.  I know it listed the colors available at the time, so Limestone and
Desert Sand must be on there.  In negotiating with the dealer, I simply said
I wanted an "all-white" Series III, which is, in essence, what I got.
Thanks for setting the record straight.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:02:35 EST
Subject: brake flex hose pinchers

Howdy y'all,
We were talking a few mos. back about brake flex line clamps.
Found some for $5.95 for a pair at the local no-name auto parts place, tho'
NAPA looked at me linke I had a hand growing out of my forehead when I asked
them about 'em.

They're made by Lisle Corporation in Clarinda Iowa and are part #22850.  They
basically look like a "C", w/ a wingnut right above the upper left corner
which is attached to a vertical threaded piece that has a 90 degree turn at
the bottom, and forms the bottom of the "C".  Really more like two "L's" held
together by a wingnut.  The clamping surfaces are rounded, so they should work
just fine.

Bill Rice
Columbus GA, where I spent Haloween driving to and from Andersonville (Civil
War Prison camp) and sweating the whole way.  Must have been in the upper 80's
today.

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 13:05:56 -1000
Subject: Re: Concrete Island Rovers

>Back in the 1970s after I bought my Series III, I and a friend would often
>drive far back up in the hills behind the sugar and pineapple fields near
>Wahiawa.  I think that's the right place, near Schofield Army Barraks; my
>Hawaii place name memory is fading.  Anyway, if you went far enough back
>through the fields you could eventually get onto the military training
roads
>that ran way back into the hills (Koolau Range).  Great off-roading back
>there, unless the Army was conducting maneuvers.

Luckily my wife is active duty so I have base stickers on all my 4x's.  That
and I am still in the guard and assigned to the 24 Infantry Division
Headquarters (at Schofield) so I think I will be 'allowed" in the training
areas.  Used to do that back in Virginia.  Go wheeling on A.P.Hill or Picket
(the forts, not Generals).  Some pretty awsome trails on Army posts.  Sfar
the best place I have ever been was Hohenfels (sp) West Germany.

Aloha
Pete

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 15:22:33
Subject: Re: The wide open (Da Beeg Kine) Island Rovers

	Rovers are scarce here now.  There was a tour outfit that used 109's to
take trips into Waipio Valley.  They were always on a shoe string and kept
them going much longer than they should have by cannibalizing every yard
ornament on the Island.  When I first got into rovers, you could buy rusty
but running 88's for under $500, in fact I turned down a completely rebuilt
88 with just a rusty rear cross member for $400.  All these vehicles
eventually ended up at the Waipio Shuttle, were parted out and used up.  
	There's a guy doing hunting trips up in Waimea using rovers now.  He has
scooped up the few rovers that I knew about that the Waipio Shuttle hadn't
vaporized.  Still some derelict rover's on the Hilo side but, with the
heavy rainfall over there, I imagine they are rust buckets.  Too bad as my
rover will probably need a new bulkhead sometime before the end of social
security.
	Talking about parts.  I need a left inner fender and face piece, the old
style without headlights.  It doesn't have to be perfect but would like it
close to straight.  I've got one that came to me crunched and pounded out
but would like one that is straighter.  I'd buy new, but it would come with
that pretty black undercoating and I'd feel bad about stripping it off.  My
rover is naked and paint is out of the question.  Most of its old paint
resided on trees around the island before I stripped off the little that
remained.  Haven't had one worry about paint scratches in the past 10
years.  Unfortunately, even I'm too finicky to drive around with a mostly
silver rover with one black fender.
	Aloha Peter
	

There were quite a few Land Rovers on the Big Island, however, as

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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@ibm.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:19:41 +0100
Subject: Re: brake flex hose pinchers

wrote:

>We were talking a few mos. back about brake flex line clamps.
>Found some for $5.95 for a pair at the local no-name auto parts
place, tho'
>NAPA looked at me linke I had a hand growing out of my forehead when
I asked
>them about 'em.
snip

FWIW I use the smallest Vice-Grip needle nose pliers with the
serrations on the jaws ground off and the jaws rounded with a
grinder. Easy one hand application.Cheers.

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:20:13 EST
Subject: Re: Series III colors

WYYY  SOITENLY! Record straightening is what we does best.

Later.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:01:59 -1000
Subject: Re: brake flex hose pinchers

>>We were talking a few mos. back about brake flex line clamps.

]
>FWIW I use the smallest Vice-Grip needle nose pliers with the
>serrations on the jaws ground off and the jaws rounded with a
>grinder.
Not sure if this applies:
Some brake hoses have a wire mesh built into them to make them stronger.
Also found in power stearing lines and AC lines.  Any-who. . . it is not
recomended to use any sort of squeeze clamp on these hoses as it can cause
premature failure/hose to colapse.  We received postings on this from all
the major auto manufacturers all the time at shops I used to work for.  The
do make plugs for capping of the end of the fittings when components are
removed.  I do not know if Rovers have this same hose so this warning may
not apply.
Aloha
Pete

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:17:05 -0700
Subject: The Series Dictionary

In designing my Series Rover website, I thought it might be fun to
incorporate a "Series Dictionary" to explain our language to newbies. You
can check out what I've come up with so far at
http://jbroach.interspeed.net/dictionary.html. Please send me anything else
you can think of! I'll update you as the site progresses.

-joseph and sidney
missoula, mt

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From: Allen Northwood <nella@enternet.com.au>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 17:30:10 +1000
Subject: Threaded alloy plug part 2  

Hi everyone.

Thanks to John and Peter for tips on what to do next.

Having to drill out the replacement plug I was worried about the state of
the thread. Sure enough it is looking a bit rough but the big problem -
something I didn't think to look at in the first place - is some sort of
scale/corrosion buildup on the inside edges of the thread that stopped the
new plug from screwing in all the way. 

This supports what John and Peter have suggested, that replacing an alloy
plug in an iron block requires re-tapping the thread to clean it up.

The landy is in my garage with the engine mostly intact so getting it to a
machine shop will be difficult and the rubber plug option seems most likely.

Will post the eventual solution when it turns up.

cheers
Allen
Sydney, Aust.

69 IIA 109

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From: john taylor <jht@easynet.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 06:31:37 -0500
Subject: Rover coverage in a USA mag

There are four articles in " 4wheel drive and sport utility magazine" just
about the objects of our affection. It's a L.R. 50th anniv special for
anyone that is interested.

Yours John Taylor
IIa V6 bastard

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