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From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:23:26 -0400
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

On Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:13 PM, Allan Smith 
[SMTP:smitha@candw.lc] wrote:
> >did a 110 cost nearly $40,000 in 1993?
> It is actually even worse than that. Although I reported $18,000 for the
> 300 TDi I have (but a 90, not 110), that was the total cost landed in
> St.Lucia,  which included selecting the composition of the thing from 

about
> 50 choices, from engine to dash instruments,  delivery to K & J. Slavin 
and
> their inspection, delivery to Southhampton to the banana boat, shipping 
to
> the West Indies, and 20% customs duty on all of the above.
> It is actually even worse than that. Although I reported $18,000 for the

Does anyone know the legalities of acquiring an old Series vehicle, 
pre-1975 and rebuilding it with a new body, new chassis that happens to 
have coil springs?  Would it still be considered a pre-1975 vehicle, if 
almost everything else has been replaced and upgraded except for the VIN?

Steven

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:34:48 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 9/24/98 7:25:49 AM, you wrote:

<<Does anyone know the legalities of acquiring an old Series vehicle, 
pre-1975 and rebuilding it with a new body, new chassis that happens to 
have coil springs?  Would it still be considered a pre-1975 vehicle, if 
almost everything else has been replaced and upgraded except for the VIN?

Steven>>

Frank Elson told a funny story about that not too long ago.

I guess it would depend on who you are asking. 

I say do it, but slowly and after you have the vehicle titled and registered
where you want it.

--pat.

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From: Peter Thoren <Peter.Thoren@genetik.uu.se>
Date: 	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:35:50 +0200
Subject: balancing tyres

Dear collected wisdom of this list,

I have purchased a set of four Michelin XCL in good condition. I will put
those on my old Land Rover rims (109" SIII). Since there are tubes in these
tyres I have been thinking about changing the tyres myself. The only thing
would be the balancing of the tyres. When I lookad at my old Michelin XC I
can´t find any balancing weights. Surely these tyres need to be balanced
or...? Am I missing something here? Is it possible to change the tyres
myself (and save 40-50£) or is it just plain stupid to try? Tips and tricks
would be very much appreciated!

Peter
Peter Thoren 
1975 109" SIII Diesel
Member #1379 Swedish Land Rover Club
Långmyrtorp
740 20 Vänge
Sweden
phone/fax +46 18 39 20 56
peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se

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From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:45:30 -0400
Subject: RE: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

On Thursday, September 24, 1998 7:35 AM, SPYDERS@aol.com [SMTP:SPYDERS@aol.com] 
wrote:
> <<Does anyone know the legalities of acquiring an old Series vehicle, 
> pre-1975 and rebuilding it with a new body, new chassis that happens to 
> have coil springs?  Would it still be considered a pre-1975 vehicle, if 
> almost everything else has been replaced and upgraded except for the VIN?
> Steven>>
> Frank Elson told a funny story about that not too long ago.

I don't think I caught that.  Was the story similar to what I am describing?

> I guess it would depend on who you are asking. 
> I say do it, but slowly and after you have the vehicle titled and registered
> where you want it.
> almost everything else has been replaced and upgraded except for the VIN?
> Steven>>

I don't suppose anyone has a semi-road worthy Series vehicle they want to sell?

Steven

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:23:24 +0000
Subject: Engine Compression Test Help?

Hello,
Can someone direct email me details on how to perform a proper 
engine compression test.  I want to do it this day, so direct email 
will help me most.

Specifically, I want to know whether this is performed cold or hot 
(warm) engine, carb throttle blocked open or closed (assuming choke 
plate is full open), spark plugs in or out, oil squirted in cylinders 
or not (and how much), how many cranks to allow,  etc....

How can I determine if a problem exists with the rings or valves 
or elsewhere?  What are the series of steps to determine a full 
account of the engine condition?

Thanks!   Mark

 

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From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:07:02 -0300
Subject: Re: balancing tyres

There is no reason you can't change your own tire but you will not be
able to balance them without the equipment. It shouldn't be a problem to
get them balanced later just go to your tire shop and ask for a tire
balance. When reinstalling the tires and tubes be careful not to trap
the tubr between the rim and the tire or ant lever that youuse as this
will tear the tube and put a hole in it.
     John and Muddy

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From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:19:36 -0300
Subject: Re: balancing tyres

There is no reason you can't change your own tire but you will not be
able to balance them without the equipment. It shouldn't be a problem to
get them balanced later just go to your tire shop and ask for a tire
balance. When reinstalling the tires and tubes be careful not to trap
the tubr between the rim and the tire or ant lever that youuse as this
will tear the tube and put a hole in it.
     John and MuddyPeter Thoren wrote:
> Dear collected wisdom of this list,
> I have purchased a set of four Michelin XCL in good condition. I will put
> those on my old Land Rover rims (109" SIII). Since there are tubes in these
> tyres I have been thinking about changing the tyres myself. The only thing
> would be the balancing of the tyres. When I lookad at my old Michelin XC I
> can´t find any balancing weights. Surely these tyres need to be balanced
> or...? Am I missing something here? Is it possible to change the tyres
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> Member #1379 Swedish Land Rover Club
> L

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:27:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Noisy gearshifter

In a message dated 9/23/98 8:12:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CWolfe@smdc.org
writes:

<< Any tips on how to minimize the fine vibratory rattle / noise caused by the
 gear shifter vibrating at highway speeds? >>

There is an antivibration spring that goes in a slot (right side I think) of
the ball on the shifter.  It is held in place by a small grub screw.  

Nate

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
boundary="------------C40274CF42D3F0E6B15DC517" ]
From: Paul G <pgussack@utk.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:31:40 -0400
Subject: Weber

Jim,
Sorry this is late in coming.  Thank you very much for the fax and
emails the info is exxactly what I needed. A big help.
Rover on!

	[Attachment  removed, was 12 lines.]	
	[Attachment  removed, was 6 lines.]	

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <lawrencelee_tc@yahoo.com>
From: Lawrence Lee <lawrencelee_tc@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Ignition Timing and Fuel Efficiency

Hello all,

Which gives better fuel efficiency? Advancing the timing to the point
just b4 knocking or setting it at TDC.

Also, I noticed that there are different ohm ratings for different car
makes' genuine plug cables. Aftermarket vendors however offer just 1
type -  the least resistance - for any make. Does anyone know the
relationship of this "resistance" besides preventing radio interference?

Just curious

cheers
==
Lawrence Lee
Blk 22, Sin Ming Road, # 11-216
Singapore 570022
Tel: (65) 456 7815   Mobile: 9 684 3678

Land Rover SerIII 109, 2.6l   "Kerbau"
A Malay name for Water Buffalo. One that PREFERS to stay in mud.

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:35:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Weber

In a message dated 9/24/98 8:34:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pgussack@utk.edu
writes:

<< Jim,
 Sorry this is late in coming.  Thank you very much for the fax and
 emails the info is exxactly what I needed. A big help.
 Rover on!
  >>

Any chance that info can be loaded up to a website (say the land-
rover.team.net FAQ) for all to see?

Nate

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 8:45:13 -0400
Subject: Andy freaks under pressure...

Most tires that come with the LT or Light Truck in their nomenclature 
usually are constructed in a way that allows for high pressure. The BFG 
All Terrains I own are rated at 85 psi. 

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: Dave Haynes <david.haynes@roke.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:40:49 +0100
Subject: Landies and Yuppies

Frank Elson wrote :-

<< mostly simply a Ser 3 with coils (I
say mostly 'cos we suffer from Yuppies
as well - although, luckily, they
usually buy Discos).>>

Within 100yds of my place in Pompey,
there are 7 LR products parked,
from S3 swb to New RR. My 78RR is the
only one ever seen with
any dirt on it. Theres even a V8 D90
auto with BFG MTs thats crying out
to be thrown in a muddy puddle or two.

I should get some stickers printed up,
along the lines of 

'ABUSE IT OR LOSE IT - Phone this number
for urgent advice.....'

Instead of laughing about these poor
misguided souls, we should
show them the error of their ways. How
about we each carry a bucket
really slimy mud in our LRs that can be
thrown over the next shiny
 LR that you see. Maybe if they see how
much better it looks, they'll
get the bug!!

Dave

Dave Haynes				Tel : +44 1794 833583
					Mob : +44 701 070 3554
Roke Manor Research Ltd.		Fax : +44 1794
833586

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From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:59:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Engine Compression Test Help?

 Hello, Mark,

Have a look at http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/todoc01.asp

sector B Diagnosing Compression Problems.

 
Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

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From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 09:38:00 -0400
Subject: towing a Series II ('58 actually)

>dix, this sounds like a job for the club
>towbar! call out the Gin Palace!
>or is it the BGB doing the towing these days?
>So hard to keep track...

I know its hard to keep track these days, but this job requires
a trailer.  The rear spring mounts have collapsed, so flat towing
is out.  For a short distance, sure, but not about 225 miles,
40+k of which are through Montreal.

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:49:30 -0500
Subject: RE: British Brake Double Flare - HELP!

I have a bad brake line from  the rear junction to the Left rear cylinder.
I have a double flare tool but the end of the line for the junction uses a
bubble flare.  The only bubble flare tool I can find is metric.  FOr those
of you making your own lines, are you using a double flare on both ends or
are you using one of the metric  bubble flare tools.  

cwolfe

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:54:58 -0600
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for Land rover

Hey all

I washed mine right before I painted her-with a brush!!

Now has a coat of tan Colorado mud and dust, and a few spots were Pinion
Pines have scratched the paint off!!

Fake Pony tails and Land Rover hays-Mines real!!! Along with the gray in
my beard!!

Art Bitterman
1960 SII "Aardvark"

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From: "Robert A. Virzi" <rvirzi@gte.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:02:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

Gee, most of the trips I go on up here in NE are dominated by coilers, with
just a smattering of series trucks thrown in for color, ummm, colour.  All
are welcome.  Maybe that's why they all show up.
		-Bob

rvirzi@gte.com    |           Fight the Borg!
+1.781.466.2881   | Resistance is NOT futile.

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 07:05:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

>'ABUSE IT OR LOSE IT - Phone this number
>for urgent advice.....'
;
I completely disagree with you.

In the US the prices for new Rover products are jacked up much higher 
than the average get-it-dirty driver can afford.

I think the best strategy is to let the status yuppies purchase as many 
of these as possible.  Let them take very good care of these cars and not 
abuse them while they depreciate.

When the car has depreciated to the point where people who would use them 
to their limits can afford them the cars will be in excellent well 
maintained shape.

Most of us who purchased used series rigs before they became status 
symbols, had to settle for a worn out abused poorly maintained rig that 
wasn't reliable for more than a trip to the market.  I personally think 
it would be real nice if the next group of affordable Rovers were in 
excellent well maintained condition.

Instead of Rover owners think of them as Rover care takers who are simply 
keeping them in good condition until the real owner can afford to 
purchase the rig.

Reality is what you make of it

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:02:50 -0500
Subject: RE: balancing tyres

> Is it possible to change the tyres
>myself (and save 40-50£) or is it just plain stupid to try?

How much is 40-50£?

The standard rate for changing a tyre here would something around $1,5 each,
and for balancing them something like $2 each. I would not deal with that
kind of job to save $14. BUT the previous question applies here, hand-labor
must be quite more expensive in Sweden.

There are no "balance-free" tyres. Even new tyres have to be checked because
your 23-year-old rims are not perfect and the tubes will have something to
do too.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:17:38 EDT
Subject: RE: balancing tyres

In a message dated 9/24/98 10:04:33 AM, you wrote:

<<There are no "balance-free" tyres. Even new tyres have to be checked because
your 23-year-old rims are not perfect and the tubes will have something to
do too.>>

Yes, you are right, but for something different, check out these "Constant
Wheel Balancers":

http://www.redhummer.com/myhummer/balancer/index.html

The source page is http://www/redhummer.com and I found it in the
"Mods/Changes"Page or the direct link at the bottom.

(A "Land-Rover-friendly" Hummer page.)

If you want to feel like your vehicle is the most reliable thing in the world,
check out his "Service Log" page. Makes you wonder what's "defending" the
USA...

--pat.

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From: Ian Vowles <Ian@modricusa.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 08:40:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

>Instead of Rover owners think of them as Rover care takers who are simply 
>keeping them in good condition until the real owner can afford to 
>purchase the rig.

Excellent idea  ! In a few more years we should see D90's below $15k

:-)

Ian
66 S11A SWB
Pagosa Springs, CO

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From: Peter Thoren <Peter.Thoren@genetik.uu.se>
Date: 	Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:50:00 +0200
Subject: RE: balancing tyres

Well the cost for changing tyres and balance them would be 500 swedish
crowns for a set of four. That would be approximately 65$ or 40£. Yes,
labour is expensive in Sweden... The reason I asked about balancing was the
fact that there are no balancing weights on my current tyres and the
balance seems fine to me.
Peter

Peter Thoren, PhD
Work:  Department of Genetics
       Uppsala University
       Box 7003; S-750 07 Uppsala
       Phone: +46 18 67 12 69
       Fax:   +46 18 67 27 05
       e-mail peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 08:23:22 -0700
Subject: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

During the 20 weeks I have been driving my 109 across the United States 
and Canada this past year I have never seen a series rig on the road  
except near a designated Land Rover trip or field meet.  If I see any 
Rover product, 90% of the time it is in or near a population centre that 
has a sizable amount of people with a large disposable income and a Rover 
dealer.  I have found myself wondering why I do not see series rigs out 
on the open highway.

I have been keeping an eye out and asking around among owners and Rover 
repair shops to see if I can spot any trends.

It seems that most people who own series rigs also own another car that 
is their primary source of daily transportation. 

When going on a trip or holiday, the series rig tends to stay home 
because:

  - It is too slow.  People do not want to spend their limited holiday 
hours driving to and from where they want to be.

 - It is uncomfortable for long distance driving, it does not have an air 
conditioner, the heater doesn't work well enough, the door seals let dust 
& water inside, etc.

- The car is not dependable enough for people to want to gamble their 
limited holiday time on the car making the trip without a stop for 
repairs.

There seem to be a number of people in Land Rover repair shops who seem 
to think that a lot of their customer's series rigs see less than 1000 
miles of driving a year.

I personally have seen rigs come to a British field meet at least two 
years  in a row with the same semi crippling mechanical problem that 
would restrict a rig to short on road trips.  These cars obviously stay 
at home and only come out for special occasions.

There also seems to be a number of good condition rigs that mostly only 
leave the driveway to go out on designated Land Rover group runs.

There seems to be a trend of people purchasing a plushmobile, getting the 
bug and purchasing a series rig to get the "pure essence" of Land Rovers. 
 Here the series rig tends to get restored to be come the "good Land 
Rover" while the Discovery or Range Rover becomes the brush beater.

A number of people bit with the bug tend to collect multiple series Land 
Rovers.  They don't have time to work on all of them so generally they 
mostly settle into the ground with one or two in semi-working condition.  
Since I collect a few types of things I can understand the collector 
mentality, but I think it is kinda sad that these Rovers just sit and 
deteriate when each could be owned by someone eager to fix it up and 
drive the car.  I understand that a lot of them are probably basket cases 
rescued from the wreckers. But times are such that there are now people 
searching for any condition series Land ROver to rebuild and love.

Maybe it is time to have these rescued Rovers adapted by loving families 
that would restore the car and get them back on the road.

Where am I taking this thread?  I'm not sure myself.  I know I would like 
to see more series rigs out on the road away from designated "runs" and 
population centers.  Actually I would like to see any series rigs out 
there on the road.  I obviously hate to see a rig just sitting someplace 
not being used.  I have seen WAY too many of those.

Maybe I'm just frustrated that my own car is sitting at home because I 
can no longer afford to keep fuel in her tanks after being "in the field" 
for over 1/3rd of the past year.  It is getting to be time to pay the 
piper for the past year's fun and I'm resisting it.  The world is singing 
it's sciren song of rugged shorlines, big trees, red rock deserts, 
rivers, rugged mountain ranges, glacers and more!  All wanting to be 
experienced and photographed!  

I have been home for about 3 weeks now and the trail is calling again but 
the money reserves have fallen below the point of being able to go out 
and play. AHHHHHH I don't want to rejoin the ranks of ants going to and 
from in their daily ruts to keep a steady income.  I WANT TO LIVE  
AHHHHHHHHHH

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:52:06 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: re: Frank, Frank, Frank!

Adrian Redmond wrote:
: Subject: Frank, Frank, Frank!
: 
: Either Frank's seeing triple, or he's trying to outdo the circulation
: figures for LRO?
: 
: Is the major gone bananas - I'm only getting tripos from Frank.

Erm, was that word "triples", "typos" or "tripe" Adrian !!!!

Sorry Frank ;-)

Paul.

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:29:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Noisy gearshifter

Bungee cord to the bulkhead.  put in a loop and snap it in.  If you need to
grab a gear you can muscle it to where it needs to be.

Zack

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:42:26 -0700
Subject: Engine Compression Test Help

Here's how I do it:
Warm up engine
Remove plugs
pull lead from coil to distr. cap out of cap and ground lead (protects coil)
Best to use one of the screw-in type compression gauges that records
highest pressure (about $20-35?)
Screw in gauge to Plug # 1 (front plug)
Crank engine about 10 times
Record pressure
repeat for 2-4

7:1 head   145 PSI
8:1 head (will have a square boss in the middle of head, manifold side)
160-175 PSI 

Having provided the designed compression ratios, the real value of a
compression gauge is not the absolute reading (145 PSI doesn't mean exactly
145 PSI) you get, but the relative readings.  You want the readings to be
within 5-10 PSI of each other.   One low reading might mean several things:
if a squirt of oil in the cylinder brings the PSI up, then most likely you
have bad rings in that cylinder.  No increase in PSI with oil in cylinder,
then probably valve problem.  Two adjacent cylinders with identical low PSI
probably means a blown head gasket.  Check for water in oil and negotiate
price down, down, down (if buying.  If you own, then you can cry on our
internet shoulders).  Done periodically (and with the same gauge),
compression readings can give you a dynamic understanding of your engine's
life and health.

While you have the plugs out, do they have that nice salmon/brown color?  
White electrodes = lean  black, carbony electrodes = rich  
As to what to do if not mixed nice, depends on your carb.  Buy a new one?

HTH
Todd

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:41:18 -0500
Subject: RE: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

TeriAnn wrote:
>...
>I have been home for about 3 weeks now and the trail is calling again but
>the money reserves have fallen below the point of being able to go out
>and play. AHHHHHH I don't want to rejoin the ranks of ants going to and
>from in their daily ruts to keep a steady income.  I WANT TO LIVE
>AHHHHHHHHHH

You would be so happy around here. You can spot 10-15 series trucks a day,
everyday, everywhere. (LR content)

This is strage world we live in. There is so much to discover, so much to
see, so much to experiment, but most of the time we simply cant.
Our society gets us trapped and domesticated, transforms us into ants as you
said, and sets the limits to our living. We are sometimes allowed to scape
momentarily from the standards, but just to keep us on track when we return.
Its always a paradox.
We have to work to live. And you have to work hard to live well. But if you
work really  hard to live really well, when are you going to have time to
"live really well"? In your elder years when you are no longer good for the
work, or able to do everything you wanted to do in the first place? Don't we
have things a little confused?

Economics, they seem to rule our world.

Ahhh, forget everything I just wrote. Too depressing.

Lets better talk about..........mmmm........ washing and waxing Land Rovers
on the field?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:53:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Bubble Flares

Michael Carradine wrote:

> How do I make a good bubble flare?
>  A bubble flare is the first half of the operation of a double flare.

Not exactly.  A true bubble flare occurs in the middle of a line and requires a
different tool specific to bubble flares.

    11
    /  \
    \  /
    11

However, what part of the system do you need a bubble flare on?  They're not
that common even on newer vehicles (mostly on the fuel lines)
Michael is correct, to the best of my memory, in that all the brake lines on
Series
vehicles use double flared ends that can be made with the typical brake tools.

Jeremy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:45:21 -1000
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

>Excellent idea  ! In a few more years we should see D90's below $15k

Unfortunately it will need to have every peice of steel on it replaced due
to rot IMHO
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:52:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Faure, Marin wrote:

>> I would agree that most Defenders today, like most Hummers, are being
> purchased solely for the status of owning a "Land Rover."  While I
know
> there are exceptions, virtually every Defender 90 I see in the greater
> Seattle area is spotless and circling a mall parking lot or driving
> around the most affluent neighborhoods.

>So what?

I just think it's an interesting indicator of how our culture is
changing in the US.  Where there used to be a lot of people who actually
went out and did things, we now have more and more people who actually
experience very little but use symbols to imply that they do.  Someone
mentioned Harley-Davidsons.  As a machine, they are still relatively
crude compared to BMWs, Moto-Guzzis, and the Japanese motorcycles.  But
Harleys have an American-icon image that's been built up over decades
that the rest of the world's bikes (except Indian) can't touch.  Most
new Harley buyers today wouldn't dream of participating in the social
"activities" that created the current Harley image in the '50s, '60s,
and '70s.  But by coughing up $18,000+ and buying one along with the
required leather apparel, they believe they will get the credit for
helping create that image.  In fact, they're simply attaching themselves
to the image's coattails, while the dwindling number of people who still
want to actively live the "bad" Harley lifestyle can't afford the bikes
anymore.

It's the same with the Land Rover.  Very, very few of the new Land Rover
vehicles sold in the US today ever venture off pavement (the same thing
can be said of Jeeps and Landcruisers, too).  But by buying one and
driving it around, the owner believes they will be looked upon as one of
the grand adventurers who made Land Rover's image in the first place.
LRNA I'm sure is very much aware of this, and have capitalized
brilliantly on the US 4x4 buyer's desire for a macho image.  If the
primary market for Land Rovers in the US was farmers who used them as
utility vehicles, you wouldn't see the prices you see today.  Farmers
need value for money, and $30,000+ for a short-wheelbase, crudely-built
4wd runabout is not value for money in the eyes of someone who needs to
use the vehicle to help him earn a living.

I'm not knocking Harley Davidson motorcycles or Land Rover vehicles.  I
like both of them a lot.  And people are free to spend their money
however they want for whatever reason they want.  But I suspect that
most people who have used Land Rovers for years to do actual work, or
who have taken them on arduous and sometimes even dangerous expeditions,
or who use them recreationally in challenging environments like Moab or
the Rubicon find some amusement in watching today's typical Land Rover
owner as they tackle the vehicle-busting environment of suburbia.

Actually, there is one positive aspect of the growing trend for people
to experience life via purchased symbols and their TV and computer.  The
more people there are watching life on a box or spending their time
washing and waxing their 4wds in their driveways, the fewer people those
of us who still prefer to visit the remote parts of the planet in person
will encounter.  So personally, I think it's great that people are
willing to cough up megabucks for a D90, Discovery, or Range Rover.  The
chances are slim I'll ever encounter them on the logging and mining
[spamkill:  blah input: %s]	 roads I drive, and the Rover Group will 
continue to make money, which

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Rob Horstman <robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:53:33 -0700
Subject: 1968 SIIA 88" - FOR SALE

Well, time has finally come...... 

FOR SALE

1968 Landrover SIIA, 88", HT, new brakes, new bearings, has a GM 230ci
6cyl installed and running on propane.
31x10.50x15 NEW AT Tires
Overdrive gearbox, capstan winch, body is in good shape, frame could use
some repair / replacement.
Runs and drives as is.

Comes with spare axels and several other "new" spare parts.

$1500.00 obo

MUST SELL ASAP !

Call (604) 826-8445 or leave Email

Rob.

Rob Horstman, Network Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
NEC Moli Energy (Canada) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                  Direct Line - (604) 466-6681 
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada                Main #       - (604) 466-6654
V2X  9E7
              Visit us on the WEB  @  www.molienergy.bc.ca

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Rob Horstman <robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:56:21 -0700
Subject: Oops - FS - 1968 SIIA 88"

Well, time has finally come...... 

FOR SALE

1968 Landrover SIIA, 88", HT, new brakes, new bearings, has a GM 230ci
6cyl installed and running on propane.
31x10.50x15 NEW AT Tires
Overdrive gearbox, capstan winch, body is in good shape, frame could use
some repair / replacement.
Runs and drives as is.
Lots of spare parts and many are NEW.

$1500.00 obo

MUST SELL ASAP!

Call (604) 826-8445 or leave Email

Rob.
Located in Mission, BC, Canada ( 15 minutes north of Sumas, WA.)

Rob Horstman, Network Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
NEC Moli Energy (Canada) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                  Direct Line - (604) 466-6681 
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada                Main #       - (604) 466-6654
V2X  9E7
              Visit us on the WEB  @  www.molienergy.bc.ca

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:06:21 -0600
Subject: RE: Windaes 98 (Scottish Version)

Adrian Redmond wrote:

---------
   Other features:

 - Instead of an error message you get a windae covered with a picture
of  a neep.
 - OK = ‘ats fine

Adrian- are you a Monty Python fan (Holy Grail- "The Knights that say
"Neep"" ) or did you perhaps mean "a Jeep" in the error picture?

Whichever way-liked it!! Can't wait for the Swedish version!

Art
1960 SII "Aardvark"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Searle,Philip" <philip.searle@ABBOTT.COM>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:31:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Towing a SerII

>From: "Martin Bagshaw" Martin.Bagshaw.mbags@nt.com
>I'm a brand new member of OVLR.
>I need help and or advice on transporting a Series II.
>U-haul seems to think a series truck is too heavy for one of their
>car dollies, they won't rent it to me.

109 or 88"?
U-haul are usually clueless on anything they can't find in their book.
I had the same problems when they tried to tell me my 88" IIA would be too
wide to fit onto their car transporter.
The track is actually quite narrow so loading took a little care.
Also the front wheel straps would barely fit around the front tyres, but then
my IIA had BIG mud pluggers on it.
With regular tyres you should be fine.
I prefer U-haul's car transporters to their dollies if you're going any great
distance.

Good luck

Phil Searle

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/4308/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:41:56 -0700
Subject: misc ramblings (was begin of end...)

The man, the legend, dieselbob (Robert McCullough) writes:

>I don't know all the ports that LRNA uses to bring in rovers, but for
>sure they use john s. conner as their shipping agent.

Whoa! *The* John Conner, as in son of Sarah Conner who defends her son
against two terminator attacks then trains him to fight the evil computers
and ultimately prevents the nuclear Armageddon that would otherwise have
killed most of us only to be dumped by james cameron after he won all them
awards for titanic?   Whoa! Small world!

*******************

Re:Folks visiting the UK should swing by where most of em were born,ground
zero, Landrover works, Solihull, SE Birmingham, main gate gps coords 

N 052 26.098 
W 001 46.828

*******************

What are some signs that your timing chain has jumped a link or otherwise
screwed up?
Would being able to start your SII 2.25 only by twisting the distributor
about 10 degrees and then rotating it back so it runs smooth be a sign? :(
All other stuff checks out a okay...

*******************

Re: Lawyer jokes...what happens when a lawyer takes viagra?
<drum roll...>   He grows taller!

*******************

Re: Spray on mud in the us...fullers earth in Florida...Hey Pat, I figured
you more for a "burnt umber" type of guy... :)  Thanks for the photogear
advice...got some stuff inbound from B&H!

*******************

Re:rover washing and waxing...I wash my rover parking spot about once a
week.  This is out on the road in from of my house.  By washing away the
oil, I hope none of my neighbors complain.  (I guess I am making oil dust,
because I apply detergent, scrub, then rinse.  The water evaporates and
then there is no more oil!:)

I can also tell when I need to add more slippery dinosaur juice when the
puddles get teeny.  I am going to seal my driveway one of these
days...guess that kinda counts as waxing...

*******************

As for posing, the annual Solider of Fortune convention is this weekend.
Guess I better pick out a set of camos and iron em.  This should be
interesting...

John

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:42:14 -0500
Subject: RE: Bubble Flares

Series Rovers use English Bubble flares on the part of the rear line that
connects to the fitting above the rear diff.  I found some tubing at a local
shop (Foriegn Affairs, Duluth MN) that has bubble flares at both ends and
correct BSF thread fittings.  I am going to cut one of the flares off and
replace with a double flare.  Stock Series rear brake lines are bubble
flared at one end and double flared at the other.

Cwolfe

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: andy Smith <andy@bobstar.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:25:42 +0100
Subject: Re: larger oil bath air cleaners...

In message <bulk.15499.19980922150612@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, John
<jhong@flex.com> writes
>So anybody know of a source for an oilbath air cleaner for something bigger
>than the 2.25...say a V8 or a Tdi! Tdi! Tdi! (say anybody hear from Stefan
>in Germany lately?)

I do not think it would be wise to use oil bath filters on TDI`s etc as
they are a little bit fussier than the earlier 2.25 petrol and diesels.
Or am I being to finicky. Flame wars start here.

-- 
andy Smith
Blah blah blah.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Colin Young" <cyoung@ceogroup.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:02:34 -0400
Subject: RE: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

Been lurking on this list for a while now, just trying to get an idea of
what's involved in owning a Series Land Rover (but I'm still listening even
though I don't actually own one, or expect to for at least 2 or 3 years,
just because I find the discussions here amusing and interesting - should I
be questioning my sanity at this point?)

>  - It is uncomfortable for long distance driving, it does not have an air
> conditioner, the heater doesn't work well enough, the door seals let dust
> & water inside, etc.

Hey! That sounds like my Saturn. Does that mean I won't have much
adjustment, or will I just have trouble convincing my partner that really,
she will like a Land Rover, even if it doesn't have air conditioning, power
steering, door locks, windows, etc.?

> Maybe it is time to have these rescued Rovers adapted by loving families
> that would restore the car and get them back on the road.

If you know anybody willing to donate one -- I'd love it and hug it and pet
it and make it my own (love, hugs and pets are about all I can afford right
now)... then again, lacking both the space and the funds maybe that wouldn't
work... I imagine money (and/or time) could be an issue keeping them off the
road (or trails). That is certainly the reason I haven't even started
looking for one myself (lacking the capital to purchase one, I expect
maintaining it would present a considerable obstacle).

> Where am I taking this thread?  I'm not sure myself.  I know I would like
> to see more series rigs out on the road away from designated "runs" and
> population centers.  Actually I would like to see any series rigs out
> there on the road.  I obviously hate to see a rig just sitting someplace
> not being used.  I have seen WAY too many of those.

Speaking of which, does anybody know the person who owns a Series vehicle in
Toronto on Bellefair Ave. in the Beach? It seems to be used on a daily basis
and for some inexplicable reason the owner has choosen to remove the top now
that the weather is cold and rains more often. I haven't had a chance to
slow down and take a good look at it since I don't want to alarm my spouse
(who would heve me declared mentally unfit).

----
Colin Young
cyoung@ceogroup.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:28:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Faure, Marin wrote:

> I just think it's an interesting indicator of how our culture is
> changing in the US.  Where there used to be a lot of people who actually
> went out and did things, we now have more and more people who actually
> experience very little but use symbols to imply that they do. ...  Most

> new Harley buyers today wouldn't dream of participating in the social

> "activities" that created the current Harley image in the '50s, '60s,
> and '70s.

Altho the image of the Wild Ones with Marlon Brando helped to create
Harley's image, I believe he was actually riding a Triumph.

>  But by coughing up $18,000+ and buying one along with the
> required leather apparel, they believe they will get the credit for
> helping create that image.  In fact, they're simply attaching themselves
> to the image's coattails,

But isn't that what advertising does?  A huge part of a product's cost is
advertising.  "Good" (a relative term) advertising can make ior break a
product.  Do you really believe that some cologne will have women drooling
over you or that using shoes/apparel with a swoosh on the side will make you
a better athlete?

> while the dwindling number of people who still
> want to actively live the "bad" Harley lifestyle can't afford the bikes
> anymore.

I've heard this comment but don't believe it. (Not worth explaining here.)

> It's the same with the Land Rover.  Very, very few of the new Land Rover
> vehicles sold in the US today ever venture off pavement (the same thing
> can be said of Jeeps and Landcruisers, too).

Very few vehicles go off-road. Period. How many Explorers and Cherokees are
sold every year? Over 1/2 million?  LRs are a small drop compared to the
others.  Yet, from what I have read (but am unsure where the statistics come
from to back it up), LR owners take their vehicles off-road in a greater
percentage as compared to other makes.

>  If the
> primary market for Land Rovers in the US was farmers who used them as
> utility vehicles, you wouldn't see the prices you see today.

And, you wouldn't see any LRs.

> I'm not knocking Harley Davidson motorcycles or Land Rover vehicles.  I
> like both of them a lot.

There has been a lot of comparison to LR and H-Ds.  I think the more
appropriate comparison is Jeep and H-D.

>  As I lived in Hawaii at the time,
> I thought the aluminum body would be an advantage in combating rust,
> which pretty much decimated the bodies of swb Land Cruisers, my other
> choice,  within a year or two.

Rust problems in the island are usually due to a lack of maintenance. (I
grew up in Jamaica.)  You learn to regularly rinse the vehicle, particularly
after direct exposure to salt.water.  Even LR frames will rust.  BTW, I have
seen worse rotted vehicles in Canada from the salt on the roads.

In terms of status, LR ads back in the '60s and '70s also emphasized their
"heritage."  The ads I have seen weren't gesred towards farmers and others
seeking an inexpensive vehicle.  And, as far as I am aware, the Series LRs
were always more expensive than what could be considered their US
equivalent.  I didn't price the LRs in the '70s, but in 1981 the cost for a
109SW was almost $20k in the US.  With all the options it would be well over
that.

Frank

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:06:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

In a message dated 24/09/98 15:04:17 BST, you write:

<< When the car has depreciated to the point where people who would use them 
 to their limits can afford them the cars will be in excellent well 
 maintained shape.
  >>

I've said.writtren this a lot but always add the rider that the transfer box -
having never been used - will need some serious work.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:11:41 EDT
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

I did the exact opposite: I bought two Series vehicles, THEN got the
plushmobile!

Whaddaya mean, Series trucke don't have a/c? Isn't that what the bulkhead
vents are for? Heat: close the vents and put on jacket - no problem.

I've taken my 109 on several trips now, and I've seen other LR's on the road,
though usually 88"'s. I remember back in 1990, I was driving a rental car from
Denver to L.A., and about halfway between Needles and Barstow, I passed this
immaculate IIa, complete with extra jerrycans, and roof rack. (immaculate, as
in clean/unrestored, with few battlescars)

Charles

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:17:33 EDT
Subject: Re: misc ramblings (was begin of end...)

John,

The SOF Convention is THIS WEEK????? I thought it was last week? Anyway, I'm
headed your way NEXT week - probably Thursday: let me know if you'll be
around.

Misc Ramblings - does David E. Davies know that you're "borrowing" his
article's title? (wouldn't want him to call Cameron, and send Conner after you
:))

Charles

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Dr. Russ" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:26:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Heaps and Harleys

Frank wrote:

*** 
There has been a lot of comparison to LR and H-Ds.  I think the more
appropriate comparison is Jeep and H-D.
***

Here, here.  Personally, I consider it an insult when LRs and
Harleys are compared.  Harleys are absolute JUNK (fire away, folks...
flames > dev/0).  How many have you seen broken down on the side 
of the road from excessive vibration (hey, gee, let's let these two
cylinders fire at 72 degree intervals so's it *feels* like a big whopping
single...)?  Plenty.  Around these parts (and especially in CT, 
where 11 out of 10 bikes on the road are Harleys) just about
every bike I see broken down is a Harley...'meriKan POS, IMNSHO.

Now, if you want an appropriate comparison of LRs with m/c's,
think vintage brit iron like Matchless, AJS, Vellocette, Ariel,
Norton...

r"I wanna 7R"d/ni"me too"ge

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "PETER HOFFMANN" <peter.hoffmann@teliamail.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:56:12 +0200
Subject: How to change 110 LR rear brake shoes?

How do I chance the rear brake shoes. The upper spring cannot be removed,
as it is stoched in the two holes!!!!! Can anyboddy help?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:27:17 -0400
Subject: Price Conversion

Enzo writes - r $18,000.  If true, then why the hell
did a 110 cost nearly $40,000 in 1993?  Did the V8 and NAS package add the
additional $22,000 plus?  How about a $18,000 motorcycle from H-D?  No thank
you.

 18000 UK  pounds is close to $30,000 US dollars. The British price is
subject to 17.5 % tax. The US spec 110 has all the bells and whistles and is
fitted with several items not fitted to the UK version.
 A Range Rover in the UK is circa $80,000, who is getting the better deal ?
Don't tell the limeys that they are less than $70,000 over here.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "PETER HOFFMANN" <peter.hoffmann@teliamail.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:07:04 +0200
Subject: HOW TO CHANGE 110 REAR RAKE SHOES? 

CAN ANYBODDY TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE THE REAT BRAKE SHOES? I CANNOT REMOVE
THE UPPER SPRING AS IT IS STOCKED IN THE TWO WHOLES????????

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "PETER HOFFMANN" <peter.hoffmann@teliamail.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:51:15 +0200
Subject: How do I change 110 rear brake shues?

I can't remove the upper spring, it is stocked in the two wholes!!!!!!!!
Who can help?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:39:40 -0400
Subject: Gear lever vibration

Cwolfe writes - Any tips on how to minimize the fine vibratory rattle /
noise caused by the
gear shifter vibrating at highway speeds?

One of the problems is often associated with resonant frequencies. A
solution is to change the wieght of the gear lever and it will change the
resonant frequency. A good  method is to remove the gear knob and slide a
length of heater hose over the steel bar, then refit the knob. This has
several benefits, it changes the resonant frequency, it keeps the gear lever
warm and it is a handy place to carry a spare piece of heater hose.
 You might also check the ball on the bottom of the lever, for some years
they made them with a plastic ball instead of the steel ball, unfortunately
the plastic wears and often breaks, resulting in a worse problem an also
making gear selection difficult. Soime steel ball  levers have an O ring
groove on the ball in which a rubber O ring can be fitted to dampen the noise.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:43:12 -0400
Subject: Stuff for sale / trade

To anyone interested:

I have a 2.25l petrol engine just taken out of my 88 and a set of 15"
wheels with (worn) tires.  Located in Virginia Beach, Virginia.  Can
deliver within reason - make offer.

Steve

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:02:55 +0200
Subject: Re: HOW TO CHANGE 110 REAR RAKE SHOES?

Hej Peter!

Hvilken Land Rover taler vi om 110 - er det det samme som 109" - med to
sko, vandret monteret?

På min 109 jeg altid afmonterer navet - for at bedre kunne nå ind til
tingene, og for at check leje m.v. samtidigt. Så er det ikke så svært at
tage fjedrene med en spidstang.

Hellere lykke med det!

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:22:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

That's right TAW, I've gotten two Rangies that way, and it works out pretty
well.

Zack Arbios

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:46:01 +1000
Subject: Re: those sewing type things

its ok - there's nothing you need to worry about - I just used to get into
trouble for borrowing mum's 'tools' (and dads for that matter) and using
them for something on the car/bike/billy cart (depending on age at the
time) and then haveing them not work properly when they wanted to use them
( I think a little bit of oil on the sewing measure adds character)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: slade@dreamlab.cc (Michael Slade)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Landies and Yuppies

So,

Now that we've defined all yuppie-landie owners (two terms which I
despise), I'm wondering where folks like Tom W., Tom P., John Benham,
myself, and others who actually *use* thier range rovers/discos come in.

Later,

Michael "fighting to defy all stereotypifications" Slade
www.DreamLab.cc

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 14:56:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

>I did the exact opposite: I bought two Series vehicles, THEN got the
>plushmobile!
;
For daily transportation instead of the series rigs???  Why did you get 
the Plushie?

;>I've taken my 109 on several trips now, and I've seen other
;> LR's on the road, though usually 88"'s. I remember back in 1990, 
;>I was driving a rental car from Denver to L.A., and about halfway 
;> between Needles and Barstow, I passed this immaculate IIa, complete
;> with extra jerrycans, and roof rack.

Yes seeing a series rig on the open road must be REAL common if you 
vividly remember driving past one 8 years ago.

Thanks for providing data to prove my case ;*)

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:02:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

In a message dated 9/24/98 8:23:07 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
twakeman@cruzers.com writes:

<<  It seems that most people who own series rigs also own another car that 
 is their primary source of daily transportation. >>

I use Tigger as a daily driver.  Most people here at work do not think it's
too strange having recognized that it's my hobby.  Most of them also love to
ride with me to lunch in it.  Except when it's 108 degrees!
 
<< When going on a trip or holiday, the series rig tends to stay home 
 because:
    - It is too slow.  People do not want to spend their limited holiday 
 hours driving to and from where they want to be.  >>

Guilty.  On the LR vacation that I managed to do this year, I only had a
couple of days and there was a bad seal leaking everywhere.  So, it stayed
home.  Today, I wouldn't hesitate having repaired it.
 
<<  - It is uncomfortable for long distance driving, it does not have an air 
 conditioner, the heater doesn't work well enough, the door seals let dust 
 & water inside, etc.  >>

Used to that now.  I don't know of any vehicle that actually look forward to
driving as much as I do Tigger.  I'm not as tall as Ben and it's a tight fit
but I'm used to it.  

<< There seem to be a number of people in Land Rover repair shops who seem 
 to think that a lot of their customer's series rigs see less than 1000 
 miles of driving a year.  >>

Currently averaging about that much in a month.  Don't worry, I rarely drive
over 60 and do the maintenance on the weekends.  Fairly religious about it
too.  
 
<<There seems to be a trend of people purchasing a plushmobile, getting the 
 bug and purchasing a series rig to get the "pure essence" of Land Rovers. 
  Here the series rig tends to get restored to be come the "good Land 
 Rover" while the Discovery or Range Rover becomes the brush beater.  >>

Sort of guilty.  I bought the Series III to keep from piling the miles on the
Discovery and the plan was to use it for longer Central America-type trips.
Note that I said it was the plan.  I bought this particular Series III because
I was fairly certain the PO had done the mechanics right.  The cosmetics are
horrible but that just adds to it.  I'll never touch the panels and don't care
how it looks.  
 
<< A number of people bit with the bug tend to collect multiple series Land 
 Rovers.  They don't have time to work on all of them so generally they 
 mostly settle into the ground with one or two in semi-working condition.  
 Since I collect a few types of things I can understand the collector 
 mentality, but I think it is kinda sad that these Rovers just sit and 
 deteriate when each could be owned by someone eager to fix it up and 
 drive the car.  I understand that a lot of them are probably basket cases 
 rescued from the wreckers. But times are such that there are now people 
 searching for any condition series Land ROver to rebuild and love.  >>

Sort of guilty again.  I have the Discovery, a IIA SW, the Series III and a
Dormobile.  The IIA is kind of in dispute as to ownership.  Don't ask.  I'm
not guaranteed of getting it back so I purchased the Series III.  TeriAnn,
John Hess (via his web page and the Mendo event) and Nick Baggerly are guilty
of making me want a Dormobile.  It is now in the garage and I've started
taking it apart to go through everything.  It will be the new long-trip
vehicle.  Ultimately, when I retire in 15 years, I'll head south within days
of retiring.  South meaning South America.  

I've said I would start it when it got under 100 degrees here which it did on
Monday.  It was in the garage that night and work has started.  Get ready for
a whole bunch of stupid questions when I get confused, lost or overwhelmed!

I'm not sure what I'll do with the IIA (if I get it back) or the Discovery.
Everything is paid for and it doesn't make sense to sell the Discovery yet.
Maybe the IIA but it's in a good safe location while we settle who gets it.

<< A number of people bit with the bug tend to collect multiple series Land 

I'm an ant who is in the office by 6:30 AM and leaves around 4 PM.  I love my
job and the opportunities it brings.  In fact, I'm bugging my boss about going
to the UK next year for either a couple of 30-day assignments or possibly an
18-month assignment.  That might bring the restorations to a grinding halt but
it brings some super opportunities to purchase parts that will be sorely
needed!  Either way, I win!   

I'll come clean:  I might be a Yuppie under TAW's description but you'll never
meet another 'uppie with fingernails and hands as dirty as mine on a daily
basis!  

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ USA

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 15:05:43 -0700
Subject: Re: HOW TO CHANGE 110 REAR RAKE SHOES? 

>CAN ANYBODDY TELL ME HOW TO CHANGE THE REAT BRAKE SHOES? I CANNOT REMOVE
>THE UPPER SPRING AS IT IS STOCKED IN THE TWO WHOLES????????

I have replaced rear shoes on the 109 several times.  They have the same 
rear brakes as the 110 rears and front of 88s. 

The springs are 'J' shaped at the end where they go through the hole & 
just require a lot of pull.

You can remove the shoes by removing the lower springs.  Or you can get a 
LONG screwdriver and pry one end of the shoes off the wheel cylinder.  
Once the spacing of the wheel cylinder is eliminated you can remove the 
shoes & springs as an assembly.

Thanks for reminding me.  I should pull some drums to check for shoe 
wear.  I suspect it is getting to be about that time again.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:12:59 +1000
Subject: Re: waxing the end of the USA LandRover

I find it interesting reading many of the comments / criticisms about
LandRover mainly from the USA contributors to this list '(most of the
contributors/members are US and not all are critisizing) particularly in
relation to the costs of the product, a few points to keep in mind:

     the special safety/emmission requirements for the USA - they may be
'good' but they add real cost, particulary for small runs -  (the extra
emmission controlls, that silly external roll bar etc)
     the D90 for the USA market was, I think at the time, a one off - not
available as a V8 anywhere else in the world (not available in any form in
Australia)
     the legal system - there was considerable discussion on this list a
while back about a group action in the us w.r.t. rust, anyone wanting to
play in the USA must build into their costing structure the real chance of
being sued, whether there is a problem you know about or not, associated
with this is the 'right to free speach' which perhaps can be abused to the
point of a campaign destroying an otherwise appropriate marketting campaign
(so a company gears up to import and sell 5,000 vehicles - someone gets
pissed off and they only sell 1,000 - they have to build these
contingencies into their costing)

I'm not saying that people don't have rights or that they shouldn't be
looked after, protected and be safe, but when these 'benifits' add 'costs'
someone has to pay - LandRover like any other business isn't there for the
[spamkill:  blah input: %s]	 fun - they are there to make money -

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From: "Peter & Julie Rosvall" <rosvall@nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:35:28 -0300
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:35:22 -0600
Subject: any way to adjust IIa wiper motor?

Well, it doesn't rain much in Montana, and a good thing, too. Sidney's
wiper switch seems to be shot, as no matter how the wiring is connected I
can only get 1 speed and no parking. Adding to the problem is the fact that
the wiper sweep os too large. They go off the glass on both sides at bothe
the bottom and side of the windscreen. Oh, yes they are the right length
blades. Is there any way to adjust this? Could the bad switch be causing
such a problem? Thanks.

-joseph and sidney
Missoula, MT

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From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:42:40 -0400
Subject: Greek Peak in LRO

Just got the Oct. LRO yesterday and I see there is a smashing piece
in there on Greek Peak by Kevin Girling..., and I don't mean smashing
in a good way.

You would think that an event billed as the largest Land Rover event
in North America would get a little more in-depth coverage than a page
and a half and a few weak photos. What happened?

There was certainly lots there to write about and photograph, with many
interesting people and vehicles coming from all over the U.S., Canada
and abroad. Instead, the article says that the party was "spoiled by
selfish critics", emphasizing the fact that some people weren't all
that happy with the event and how they criticized the organizers. Get
real! The only real bitiching I ever heard was from a few people after
the event, via this and the coil list (I'm sure everyone remembers
those postings).  
 
OK, so there were some problems, so what. For a first attempt at a
undertaking this big, what else would you expect. But there was just so
much going on that weekend, with the majority of people, I'm sure,
having a great time, that I think Mr. Girling could have presented a
much more realistic view of the event. I was there and certainly
didn't think the event was "spoiled".

I think Mr. Girling and LROI blew it this time.

Brett

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From: "Dr. Russ" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:17:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Greek Peak in LRO

Brett Storey (yo) observes:

***
Just got the Oct. LRO yesterday and I see there is a smashing piece in
there on Greek Peak by Kevin Girling..., and I don't mean smashing in a
good way. 

snip,snip

I think Mr. Girling and LROI blew it this time.
Brett
***

Sure makes it easier to justify a page an a half now, dunnit!

Re: the weak photos...blame the dusty lens, eh?  He should'a kept
away from the Bosnian land mine/dust pit.  

Surely he did NOT get that impression from being there, but more
likely from reading the bitchin' and moanin' on this list afterwards.
Alls I heard anyone complain about was the food (no biggie, and
not the organizers fault, and it passed) and flying lawnchairs...

r"burn the mag"d/nige

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:42:28 -0500
Subject: RE: Greek Peak in LRO

Here we go again!
:-(

Just an outsider comment.
Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:05:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> During the 20 weeks I have been driving my 109 across the United States
> and Canada this past year I have never seen a series rig on the road
> except near a designated Land Rover trip or field meet.

I have spent many miles on the road (day and night) driving across Canada and
the US.  I spent a lot of those miles driving a diesel Westfalia Vanagan
which is slower than most Series LR. (I think it is about the same as a stock
S1).  I have never seen a Series LR on any of my trips.  Starting in the 90s
I would occasionally see a RR.  (In 1993 I saw a NAS D110 on the Alcan and a
D110tdi and a RR on the Dempster.).  Of course today there are lots of
Discoveries, Defenders, and RR on the roads.

Given the choice of a Defender versus a Series for long range travelling, I
think the Defender is much, much better.

Frank

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From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:24:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

Hi TeriAnn,
  Well not all of the series rovers are parked.  My brother helped me to
get me 88 drivable & while I was driving it daily my brother want to
drive the parts car that came with it when I purchased it.  Now he has
been driving his 1968  88 as a driver for several years.to get to work.
  You are of cource right once the LR bug bites it does not let go.  I
have rebuilt a three door(dormobile wanttobe) a five door SW, & my
original 88.  I have been lucky enough to be able to help a few others
repair their rovers.   Including working late into the night in a field
of weeds to put wheels on a parts car.to move it.
  Lots of  rovers could use better home including mine but it is like
giving up family to the cold cruel world.  Besides I thought you had to
have at least three so you would have a working one to drive.. (GRIN).
  Every day you drive your LR to work is a little piece of the wild you
get to take with you.

Regards,
  Rob Davis_Chicago

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From: lndrvr@ldd.net (BRIAN WILLOUGHBY)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: What if...

I simply have to pose the question:  What would things look like today if
Land-Rover had introduced the Range Rover in the U.S. in 1970?  Likewise,
what would have happened if British Leyland had continued to import the
Series III throughout the period from 1974-1987 (when the Range Rover
appeared here as a "new" vehicle)?

Some things to consider:  Toyota sold the very utilitarian FJ-40 in the
U.S. until 1984; look at the market placement of the Land Cruiser today.  I
use this example since I feel the FJs to be the most closely related to the
Land-Rover; Jeeps had gone soft years before.

Brian

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From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:15:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Any port in a storm

The Rovers I saw at the dealer in Atlanta came in at Brunswick, GA.

A. P. "Sandy" Grice wrote:

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:53:41 -0400
Subject: Re: What if...

BRIAN WILLOUGHBY wrote:

> I simply have to pose the question:  What would things look like today
> if
> Land-Rover had introduced the Range Rover in the U.S. in 1970?
> Likewise,
> what would have happened if British Leyland had continued to import
> the
> Series III throughout the period from 1974-1987 (when the Range Rover
> appeared here as a "new" vehicle)?

My opinon of what would have happened: No LR products would be sold in
the US today.

Given BL's fundamental lack of understanding of the US market, and their
network of small, undercapitalized dealers, the primary result of trying
to sell the RR at the price BL would have needed would be a group of
unhappy customers, and the withdrawal from the US market. This would
[spamkill:  blah input: %s]	 then be "proof" that it was impossible to make 
money with the RR in the

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From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:11:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Greek Peak in LRO

Couldn`t agree more Brett. I received my copy and with great expectations
turned to the pages covering the Greek Peak soiree.
What a disappointment.
I would have thought a passing word or two about the difficulties involved,
and overcome by all those involved with putting together this event would
have been more appropriate and appreciated.
I would have thought a few more words about the geographical size of North
America and the distances travelled by some of the participents would have
been noteworthy and of interest to the rest of the world readers.
I would have thought a short reference to the "gymkana'" would have been
informative.
I also expected a photographic record somewhat more representative than the
insipid snap shots that were shown ( nothing personal Martin) :-) The
largest gathering, ever, in Nth. America and this is the coverage !
Kevin ,dear boy , you have hardly excelled yourself with this submission.Was
this the best you could do or did Carl edit the life out of your report?
As I said , what a disappointment.

Brett Storey wrote:

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:26:09 -0700
Subject: Re: What if... (No LR CONTENT)

David Cockey wrote:

> BRIAN WILLOUGHBY wrote:
> > Toyota didn't make any serious attempts to link
> today's LC with the FJ's. LC volume in the US only started to increase
> in the early '90s after Toyota moved them way up-market and RR had
> established the luxury SUV segment.

I believe that is correct.  When I bought my FJ62 in the late '80s, many
Toyota dealers didn't know what a LC was.  Toyota never advertised the LC
(unlike the 4Runner) and only imported a limited number.  With the boom of
the 4wd at the start of the '90s, Toyota imported only the fully equipped
upscale LCs.  In other parts of the world, you can get a stripped down LC
that is similar to a (stripped down) Defender.  Incidentally, Toyota even
skipped the 70 series LC for the US (which I think is a lot nicer than the
FJ60/62) altho some went to Canada for mining operations.

Frank

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:28:10 -0400
Subject: Re: waxing the end of the USA LandRover

Richard Clarke wrote:

>      the legal system - there was considerable discussion on this list
> a
> while back about a group action in the us w.r.t. rust, anyone wanting
> to
> play in the USA must build into their costing structure the real
> chance of
> being sued, whether there is a problem you know about or not,

I find that individuals and companies without experience in the US are
much, much more concerned about this than those with experience. Product
liability costs probably are higher in the US than other countries but
insurance from a US company should be a small expense if you have your
act together.

Based on some cases I've heard about I wouldn't want anything I wrote to
be published in Britain for fear of a libel suit. A few years ago an
entrepreneur trying to sell catamarans with computer controlled wings
instead of sails successfully sued Yachting Monthly for 1.5m# because of
a negative review.

> associated
> with this is the 'right to free speach' which perhaps can be abused to
> the
> point of a campaign destroying an otherwise appropriate marketting
> campaign
> (so a company gears up to import and sell 5,000 vehicles - someone
> gets
> pissed off and they only sell 1,000 - they have to build these
> contingencies into their costing)

What prompted this comment? Any examples? The US market is open and
there are no guarantees that you will meet your business plan
objectives.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:37:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Towing a SerII

Searle,Philip wrote:

> Also the front wheel straps would barely fit around the front tyres,
> but then
> my IIA had BIG mud pluggers on it.
> With regular tyres you should be fine.

I've found the straps can be too short for 7:50-16s. Easy solution:
don't put the straps over the tires. Thread then inside the wheels and
over the axles, taking care to go between the brake hose and axle. The
strp will bear on the swivel ball, so pad with a rag if this bothers
you.

> I prefer U-haul's car transporters to their dollies if you're going
> any great
> distance.

I've trailered two SII 88s from NH to MI (700 miles each, one at a
time), and most of a SII 88 from MD to MI on U-Haul car hauler trailers,
using Suburbans as the tow vehicles. No significant problems.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: William Dan Terry <wterry@netpubsintl.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:56:50 -0600
Subject: FOR SALE

Best offer over $8000. 1966 IIA 109 Mil HT. Must sell now!

[spamkill: [cC]yber[^pcu][^ios][^rt][^yt] input: %s]	 
http://www.netpubsintl.com/CyberJungle/landrover

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:43:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

Well TeriAnn, I drive my series rover everywhere I go. I have seen
other  series rovers on the road on quite a few occasions. Even this
summer, I flew to Alaska to visit a friend, and in the tiny town of Hope
I saw a red 88. Less than two weeks ago I saw a Disco pulling a green
88. Maybe there are just more series Rovers in Colorado. There were 9 in
Evergreen which has a pop. of 30000 before Russ Wilson moved his two
out. There are also MANY "yuppies" with 90's RR's and Discos, and even a
110. In my short 2 mile drive to work I can be sure of seeing at least 2
or 3 Rover products on the road, sometimes series. I will agree that
most people don't take them on long trips, but some of us still do.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:03:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Weber

NADdMD@aol.com wrote:

> Any chance that info can be loaded up to a website (say the land-
> rover.team.net FAQ) for all to see?

I don't know? How do you upload something to land-rover.team.net FAQ,
and can .jpg files be uploaded to it? What I have is exploded views,
part #s and float leveling/idle setting instructions. I may put it on my
page if enough people are interested, and if not I could e-mail it to
anyone who wants it.

Jim Hall 
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

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From: "Robert McCullough" <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:18:55 -0400
Subject: william leacock
	charset="iso-8859-1"

could you e-mail me directly so as not to use up the digest, thanks

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From: "Robert McCullough" <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:21:48 -0400
Subject: steve rochna
	charset="iso-8859-1"

need your e-mail address

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:29:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

On Vashon Island (Puget sound), there are at least 5 88's and I saw a 109 a
couple of weeks ago.  ( Population ~11000 )  Series rovers are an ideal
island vehicle.  The local NAPA store has everything I need except the
Lucas fiddly bits.  (and they can order)

At 07:43 PM 9/24/98 -0700, you wrote:

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From: Vince Sabio <Listmom@telephonet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:57:11 -0400
Subject: Mostly Metro Has Moved

Hi folks,

Much like the Defender production line, the Washington, D.C., area
"Mostly Metro" mailing list has moved to a new location -- and to
<cheering> an automated server! </cheering>

If you live the greater (?) Washington, D.C., area, and would
like to join the Mostly Metro list, you can either go here and
subscribe:

<http://clio.lyris.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=mostlymetro>

...OR you can send any message to <join-mostlymetro@clio.lyris.net>.

Welcome aboard!

Vince Sabio                     Listmom: HumourNet, FAST, Mac-L, Mac-Chat,
listmom@telephonet.com                   Merced, Darwin, TSC, MostlyMetro

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:07:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

...I was waiting for that, TW...

There was also the Santana 109 (that happened to be identical to my own 109
with regards to body color/features), that I came across, while in Reno last
year, as well as the S3 88 that I passed on the same trip, while driving from
Reno, to Vegas.

Reason for getting the Plushie: When friends want to go on shooting trips in
the desert with me, nobody wants to sit in the back of the 109 (too bumpy, no
open-able windows, no rear-side doors, "I don't want to sit on ammo cans!"),
and since it's a 3-door, I prefer to keep is in a camper-state, rather than to
add jump seats that'll just get in the way later, when I want to carry stuff
in the back.

...speaking of shooting trips in the desert - I occasionally see one, or two
88's out around Indio, and a friend of mine (while I'm thinking about it) has
a 109 similar to mine, at Twentynine Palms. (also ex-South African Army/ was
imported by BP years ago)

As I have a real "job-type" job, I usually don't have time to go gallobanding
around the country accounting for the number of Series trucks that are out in
the middle of nowhere, besides my own.

...so much for making your case.

Charles

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:02:51 EDT
Subject: Replacing door posts?

Spent some time tonight taking the left front side apart on the SIIA
Dormobile.  

As suspected, the bulkhead is in good shape except for the doorposts which
need replacing at the bottom.

Can anyone briefly outline the method to replace them?  Do I need to get the
bulkhead out to do it right or can it be done in place.  I noticed that
several of the common suppliers in the US sell door posts but RN says theirs
are taller to make alignment easier for when I assume you weld them in place.
Thought?

Any advice... Thanks in advance!

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ 

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From: Cutler Family <cutler_family@ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:28:17 -0600
Subject: Series I tire/tyre choices

Keith Elliott wrote asking for an exhaust manifold.  Since he was
talking about tires for a Series I, I must assume he wants the manifold
for that vehicle, also.  However, since he apparently owns a Series II,
he is welcome to my original exhaust manifold, from my 1960 Series II,
that exits high through the left wing.

Thanks.
Keith

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:39:20 -0700
Subject: Re: waxing the end of the USA LandRover

Richard Clarke wrote:

> I find it interesting reading many of the comments / criticisms about
> LandRover mainly from the USA contributors to this list

The criticism is directed mainly to the cost of Defenders.  RR and Discos are
actually cheaper in the US. (Or was a couple years ago when I checked.)

Many years ago I remember looking at a fully equipped LC FJ80 (Sahara) in
Australia and it was over $100k (Aus) which was about $75k (US).  The same
vehicle in the US was about $40k.

>      the special safety/emmission requirements for the USA - they may be
> 'good' but they add real cost, particulary for small runs -  (the extra
> emmission controlls, that silly external roll bar etc)

I've been told that the roll bars added about $5k to the cost.  It had to be
done on the assembly line.

>      the D90 for the USA market was, I think at the time, a one off - not
> available as a V8 anywhere else in the world (not available in any form in
> Australia)

Or anywhere else in the world.

>      the legal system - there was considerable discussion on this list a
> while back about a group action in the us w.r.t. rust, anyone wanting to
> play in the USA must build into their costing structure the real chance of
> being sued,

I don't know of any manufacturer that would be self-insured.  The policy cost
is probably not a significant part of the total price. However, there are some
suppliers that stay away what they know will end up in litigation.  For
instance, BMW, altho not a manu of helmets, stopped importing their System
helmets.  (When I needed a new one I got mine in Australia.)  Yet, there are a
lot of other motorcycle manu making money in the US.

Frank

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:46:00
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

	Check out East Coast Rovers, http://www.eastcoastrover.com/, if you 
want a
coil conversion.  Anything can be done.  All it takes is limitless funds.
Aloha Peter

>Does anyone know the legalities of acquiring an old Series vehicle, 
>pre-1975 and rebuilding it with a new body, new chassis that happens to 
>have coil springs?  Would it still be considered a pre-1975 vehicle, if 
>almost everything else has been replaced and upgraded except for the VIN?
>Steven

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:40:21
Subject: Re: balancing tyres

	I highly recommend that anyone with 16" wheels at least break the bead 
on
their tires before letting a tire shop get anywhere near them.  Some tire
machines do a serious bend job on the rims.  You can use an old rim and the
weight of the rover to break the bead.  I finally went out and bought a set
of tire irons so I could change my own tires.  It is one hell of a job to
pry the tires off the rim.  I wouldn't take the task on lightly.  Much
easier to break the bead and then have the tire shop do the rest.
	As far as balancing, change the tires and drive the car.  If the wheels
tell you they need to be balanced, then balance them. If they don't, save
the money.  Had my last set balanced and they are no better after than they
were before balancing and are worse than the previous two unbalanced sets.
Major problem is rims out of true because of the aforementioned bead
breaking machine.  If the rims are out of true, balancing is problematical
and may be a waste of money.
Aloha Peter

> The only thing
>would be the balancing of the tyres. When I lookad at my old Michelin XC I
>can´t find any balancing weights. Surely these tyres need to be balanced
>or...? 
>Peter Thoren 

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From: "Shaun Fisher" <FisherS@natburo.kzntl.gov.za>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:34:57 +0200
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

I hear that in south Africa you can pay someone to spray your 4X4 with mud 
(genuine mud). I can only presume it works for the yuppie club.

Shaun Fisher 
SERIES IIA (under construction - again)

>>> <Frankelson@aol.com> 09/23 8:55 PM >>>

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:14:19 BST, you write:

<< I washed and WAXED The 
 Green Rover.
 
 She DID win people's choice for Land Rovers though.  The 1973 Jagure 
 British racing green does look nice when clean and polished. >>

sometimes there's just no understanding people is there :-)>

BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s can
buy spray on mud......

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|¶_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:10:45 EDT
Subject: Gearbox joys...

Finally got the gearbox back into my SII 88", and started her up today, for
the first time in over a year! Still runs great, except for a little oil
spitting out of the breathers...

Still have the floors to go back in, and the rear driveshaft - otherwise, it's
done.

Interesting thing I noticed: I went through about 3 top covers, until I found
one that fit properly! The others, would fit so tight, that the shift rods
wouldn't move! Also, I discovered that one of the gearboxes that I blew up,
was my fault...I was bolting down the bellhousing-to-gearbox case bolts,
BEFORE the layshaft nut, and ended up pushing the layshaft through the rear of
the casing! Tightening down the layshaft nut first, makes all the difference
in the world.

Also - I was at BP Wednesday, and saw the "remains" (if you could call it
that) of a gearbox, that was "Kustom-built" by BPNW, using their own home-
brewed high-ratio gears...

...you'll NEVER catch me ordering one of those boxes!

It seems, the gears they're using, start life as old Land Rover gears, and
they mill off the old teeth, take another gear (possibly Land Rover as well),
mill out the inside of it, then WELD THE REMAINING PIECES TOGETHER!

The reason this gearbox exploded, is because whomever did this, failed to
ensure that the gear was true to the rest of the components! (ie. the finished
gear was welded offset)

So, to save myself the hassle of taking somebody to court, I think I'd rather
build my own gearbox, or order a "stock" replacement.

Buyer beware.

Charles

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:54:02 +0200
Subject: Questionable and tenuous L-R content

Hi All,

There was a live lion kill on a Cape buff at the Africam waterhole site
yesterday. Damn, I also missed it!

For y'all  on the lro list, this is a webcam set up at Djuma game
reserve that updates every 30 seconds or so. Y'all can visit at
http://www.africam.mweb.co.za/ , enjoy!

Regards

Paul (I'm sure a L-R was used at some stage on the reserve) Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za
http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

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From: David  R Scholes <dscholes@thehub.com.au>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:03:11 +1000 (EST)
Subject: 1978 SIII SWB For Urgent Sale

Sadly I have to sell my Landie due to a change of jobs and cities. It's a
1978 SWB SIII fitted with a Holden motor that's in good nick (consumes no
oil), Motivator extractors, Warn freewheeling hubs, CB, Sony stereo,
bullbar, jerrycan holders, two spare wheels, tropical roof and driving
lights. It needs some work doing on the rear springs and a new dashboard
but other than that it's a great vehicle. In the four years I've had it,
it's been everywhere and never ever let me down. Ideal for a minor
restoration project or for anyone who wants a go anywhere vehicle. The
vehicle is located in Brisbane, Australia and I need to sell in the next
two or three weeks. $2,000 ono will secure this vehicle. If anyone is
interested or knows anyone who would be,  either email me back or call me
on any of the numbers listed below. If it isn't sold it's likely to have to
go for scrap - now that's emotional blackmail if ever I heard it!!!!

David Scholes
Freelance Television Writer/Producer
PO Box 3, Lutwyche 4030
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Tel: + 61 7 3857 4172
Mob: 015 698644
Fax: + 61 7 3857 4173

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From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:41:17 EDT
Subject: mid-atlantic delema

Hello All,
If anyone has registered for the mid-atlantic rally and cannot go please email
me , so that I may take your space(My plans fell through).
It would be greatly appriecated.
Thanks , Rick

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andrewf@sherco.co.za>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:05:48 +0200
Subject: 2.5 crank in 5brg 2.286 block

A quickie, I hope....

Is it as 'simple' as it looks to fit a crank from a 2.5 4 cylinder petrol 
engine to a 2.286 5 main bearing block?

It appears from the specs that all that was actually *changed* was the 
crank and the pistons - to increase the swept volume.  The con rods have a 
different part number but are the same length.  All journal diameters and 
the timing gear on the crank are the same.

The cylinder head seems to be the same for both engines, as is the rear 
end of the crank i.e. rear main seal, mountings etc.

Would a 2.286 cam work, or should it be changed, is it different?
Thrust washers have the same part nos., but the bearings have different 
ones...

Just wondering if anyone out there has done this, or at least done the 
research?

All the best,
Andy

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Driving series rigs in the U.S.

---Colin Young  wrote:
 Been lurking on this list for a while now, just trying to get an idea
of
 what's involved in owning a Series Land Rover (but I'm still
listening even
 though I don't actually own one, or expect to for at least 2 or 3
years,
 just because I find the discussions here amusing and interesting -
should I
 be questioning my sanity at this point?)

Don't let everyone throw you when they start putting down coilers or
leafers or whatever. Look around and find the best deal that you can,
wether that is a series, a disco, or a rangie. I didn't start out
looking for a rangie when I got mine, it was just the best vehicle I
could find for what I had to spend. With a little work here and there,
they are all good. Even j**ps and l**dc*****rs.....:-)
Smitty

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 03:12:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: What if...

 
 I don't think the FJ-40 had much to do with the sucess of the Land
 Cruiser and Lexus clone today. Today's LC in the US is really a
 decendent of the FJ-55. I doubt many buyers of LC are aware of the
FJ-40
 and FJ-55. Rather they look at it as a reliable, high quality Range
 Rover made by Toyota. Toyota didn't make any serious attempts to link
 today's LC with the FJ's. LC volume in the US only started to increase
 in the early '90s after Toyota moved them way up-market and RR had
 established the luxury SUV segment.
 Regards,
 David Cockey

Just like series vehicles built the reputation for all other rovers
that followed. The FJ40 built the rep for Toyota. I had one years ago,
it was slow, got crap mileage, but it was bulletproof. No matter what
I broke, it never left me walking. Who many of the yuppies everyone is
talking about this week, know what a series vehicle is compared to
their disco or new rangie?
Smitty

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