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From: "Robert McCullough" <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:00:49 -0400
Subject: LRNA
	charset="iso-8859-1"

 I don't know all the ports that LRNA uses to bring in rovers, but for =
sure they use john s. conner as their shipping agent.

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:06:55 +1000
Subject: Greased springs

Frank wrote about a real car:
>...he wrapped those, Hillman Minx as I recall,  springs up good and tight.
>took him nearly all day. Only took a drive down the road and back to tear
> it into lots of shreds that took a lot longer to remove :-)>

Why did he remove it?

Ron (who has finally disposed of his last Hillman (a Gazelle - Hillman, not
Singer Gazelle) on Saturday last.  what do I do with a garage fullof spare
parts for Hillmans?
Oh, yeah.  Keep them for my son's Hillman Hunter Royal 660 (he bought my
car).

Regards,
Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
'86 Range Rover 4.8L auto  "The Last Aquila"
check my web site at www.users.bigpond.com/hillman
Webmaster Land Rover Owners Club of Australia (Sydney Branch)
Webmaster Hillman Owners Club of Australia

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From: "Dennis White" <dennisw@tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:36:15 -0400
Subject: UK Trip

The Mrs. & I have signed on for a "Land Rover Adventure" called "The
Ultimate Challenge" which is a two day Camel Trophy driving course at
Eastnor Castle training grounds. We're arriving Friday AM and completing the
"Adventure" on Monday. We then plan on driving our rented 110 up to Scotland
and back through Wales to Gatwick, doing the B&B routine on the way (no
formals plans or reservations) If anyone on the list has any recommendations
on where to go or what to see it would be greatly appreciated. I'm on digest
mode, so a private email would be great

Thanks and Cheers
Dennis & Maura White, Boston, MA USA
NAS90

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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:50:18 -0400
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

<<Luis Manuel wrote NO I BOUGHT THE BOXY THING.>>

I have always thought of them as flying bricks!

Peter Goundry

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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:01:13 -0400
Subject: Land Rover Commercial Content

Hi Folks, 

I have been contacted by a company who, with Land Rovers permission, has
created 2 pieces of original art work commemorating LR's 50th. The
artwork is by Road & Track magazine contributing illustrator and
Automotive Fine Arts Society member Dennis Brown. The first lithograph
illustrates the different Land Rovers produced over the years and the
second is Camel Trophy oriented. They wish to offer remaining stock to
the LR community here in the US. If there is anybody out there
interested, e-mail me off the list and I will forward their e-mail which
includes 2 jpeg files illustrating their offer. 

Please take note that I do not know these people, never transacted
business with them, have no connection to them, etc. etc. etc. so pinch
of salt, buyer beware, applies.

Peter Goundry
67 GS 109" IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 05:50:24 -0700
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

<SNIP>
>I finally ended with the 90 which is not
>a SIII, but it's the real thing still.
<SNIP

;>I don't know if I'll be subscribed to that list <<RRO?CSO>> 
;> for long. I feel fine in this pub, I dont think I'll change
;> it for anything else.

<SNIP>

;>Did I make any sense?

Yep.  I have always believed that the Defenders have the same heart and 
soul as any of the older series rigs.  It is a series rig that has been 
refined to work a little better and to meet new safety regulations.  
Unfortunatly, they seemed to have cheapened some of the parts a little. 
like ungalvanized steel capings.  But the same could be said of the 
series III's plastic grill.

You can line up 50 years of series cars end to end and know they are all 
the same car.  I don't think you can do that to any other car in the 
world.  Put a Disco, RR and freeloader at the end of that line and you 
would know where Defenders belong.

A series rig by any other name is still a series rig.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 06:14:52 -0700
Subject: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

>	I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the series
>list. 
;
OH OH

Just before the Palo Alto All British Field meet I washed and WAXED The 
Green Rover.

She DID win people's choice for Land Rovers though.  The 1973 Jagure 
British racing green does look nice when clean and polished.

AT the Portland All British field meet. The Green Rover worn the prize 
for being the most traveled Land Rover during the last year.  The prize 
was a new 5 gallon bucket of gear oil.  The Green Rover now has new gear 
oil in all 7 resavors and the 10L jerry can that I take on trips has been 
topped off.

Don't worry about my rig giving series Land Rover's a bad name by being 
polished.  Until I start getting an income she is only using fuel when 
absolutly necessary.  That means after 20 weeks of sponsored long range 
travels (unwashed), she is not going anyplace that is not necessary 
(polished).  So whe won't embaress anyone.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 06:28:05 -0700
Subject: Re: larger oil bath air cleaners...

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
>>Besides the testimonials to its effectiveness, there is also the cheap
>>prick angle to consider...namely oil is probably way cheaper and takes up
>>less space than paper element filters!  

>I thought the Tdi filters were pretty cheap, considering their size - about

Errr...um...Allan, I mentioned being concerned about space in my post...I
really am not interested in hauling around one or more large spare paper
filters and since where I live is *pretty* dusty this is a factor.  What do
expedition folks use?  KN?  A support truck stuffed with spare filters?
Although it probably isn't recommended, in a pinch you could shake
out/gently back flush a filter...

>7 pounds something in the UK, so still cheap with postage, especially as
>part of a group order for a bunch of stuff. When you have paid the
>equivalent of around $18,000 for a custom-spec 90 300Tdi then the cost of
>air filters is negligible.

Or perhaps the cost becomes even more important?! :)

>The question is - are oil bath filters more efficient than the current
>paper filters? The Tdi really sucks air.

Funny I thought the question under this title was where to get larger oil
baths? :)

I don't *really* know if oil baths deliver cleaner air than paper filters
but I would be interested to hear more about another aspect of oil bath
filters...namely, how do you know when to empty/service them in a severely
dusty environment.

Say you have just driven through a sand storm (or in a dusty convoy :) with
the paper filter, it packs up, you lose power and you can "tell" when it
needs to be changed.

With the oil bath, the oil pan would just fill up with sand and then start
letting unclean air go through?  Does the metal mesh clog?   I am guessing
that one would check the oil bath at the end of every day for a dusty
convoy situation and immediately after the sand storm lifts? :)

John

>Allan.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:34:36 EDT
Subject: Re:  Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 9/23/98 9:14:19 AM, you wrote:

<<Just before the Palo Alto All British Field meet I washed and WAXED The 
Green Rover.>>

It was in *Palo Alto*, so that excuses a lot of car-prep behavior. For a tony
town like Palo Alto, waxing may have been an entry requirement... :-) 

But yes, I have to agree that BRG does look good when it is 9 coats deep and
hand waxed, Jaguar or Dormobile...

--pat.

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 06:38:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

pppat wrote:

snip
>Hmmm. I'm now wondering what to make of this thread. 

>Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got to go out and
wax
>my defender before the hurricane comes...

>--pat.

Sage words to live by up until that wax bit.  Wax?  Wax!  Humf! .....I do
title thee   Pat "Poser" Parsons,  Earl of Pong...Lord of Simonize?

:)

Well, I guess I'll ramble a bit about my impressions on this thread.  

Seems to me the new LR is safer as a corporate entity now than ever
before...I think the #1 problem facing LR is build quality and now that BMW
owns them, this should be less of an issue than before.  Most people expect
new LRs to be expensive and I would imagine that most of the disgruntled
new LR owners feel that way because of reliability issues due to poor build
quality (vs design).  

I'm not really sure why there is a glut of older discos in the us now and
even though I would never want one, the freelander, from the perspective of
the cutesy/urban SUV buyer is going to be a pretty competitive product for
LR/BMW.

Of course, this probably is yet another nail in the boxy rover
coffin...while the SA production move makes sense, I would imagine that it
will be the design changes to improve "manufacturablity" that will
determine how much longer Defender stays in production.

Re: the comparisons of UK vs us, I would say that fuel cost is the major
factor in design/usage differences between here and there.  My impression
of UK road traffic is  many *very small* passenger cars, smallish delivery
trucks/van and HUGE tractor/trailer type rigs - I think the us would look
the same given $4-5/gall fuel costs.  In the us, one can tool around in a
gas guzzling mega pickup with nothing in the back 90% of the time no big
deal but in the UK you zip around in a fuel sipper that 90% and the 10% you
have to really haul something, either you have the appropriate vehicle in
the stable or you have a mate that does!

I personally am "blown away" by the huge tractor trailer rigs at the UK
rover rallys conveying competition vehicles.

I spent a fair amount of time in farm areas in the UK this past summer and
saw many LRs being used as working utility trucks.  Of course they were
diesels and you can buy very spartan LRs in the UK with the
parts/service/cost situation in LR's home market being very much comparable
to j**p's home market.   I would assume that j**p owners in the UK would
have a much higher cost of ownership than here in the us.

As a closing comment, there is the saying, 'the Brits and the Yanks,
separated by a common language" well could it be said that by and large (we
enthusiasts aside), "the series rover folks and the new rovers folks,
separated by a common manufacturer?"

I've accepted this as reality a long time ago.

John

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:45:59 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: larger oil bath air cleaners...

In a message dated 9/23/98 9:32:32 AM, you wrote:

<<With the oil bath, the oil pan would just fill up with sand and then start
letting unclean air go through?>>

Not really. As long as the oil has a liquid surface for the air to hit, it
will keep trapping particles. But yes, if you sucked in the sahara, to the
point where it looked like you poured oil into your sand-filled filter, it
wouldn't have that air-to-oil interface that traps dirt.

I would tend to think that if one was in a sand storm, that driving would
halt, but I've never been in a sand-storm. Driving in convoy can envelop one
in kicked-up dust, so you have to get out of the parking lot quickly and lead
the stragglers. That's also one of the main reasons for a raised air intake,
especially for vehicles driving in convoy.

There appears to be less room for oilbath filters in the modern LRs, but I'm
sure it can be done. A few years back, I used to drive a 1955 Thunderbird and
it had a big round oilbath filter sitting right over the engine, about 16
inches across and 4 or so inches deep... so there must be various styles other
than the vertical canister of the series vehicles.

--pat.

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From: Keith Goffin <keith.goffin@camp.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:51:50 -0400
Subject: 1970 SIIa 88" For Sale

I have a wonderful unmolested 1970 SIIa 88" in desperated need of
restoration.  Everything is on my landie but a good frame.  Please help her
live a new life.  Offers around $1500. considered.  Call or email Keith at
216-426-2082 (day), (216) 221-8886 (eve) or email keith.goffin@camp.org

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:56:40 EDT
Subject: Re: 1970 SIIa 88" For Sale

   Where are you located?

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:57:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Email address thieves!

WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some A#$%*^E that uses the email address Rem3@apexmail.com, has used my email
address in their own sales pitches: 

I AM IN NO WAY INVOLVED IN THEIR GARBAGE WHATSOEVER!

...and if I happen to find the bastard responsible, I'm gonna tear them apart!

Charles

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From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re:  Beginning of the end for LR?

Today, I'd rather spend a butt-load of money and have a 109 coiled and
tdi'd
before I bought a soft-shape LR, but that's probably why I subscribe
to LRO,
and not CSO/RRO...

Gee, does this mean that since I have a "non" plush mobile Rangie,
that you guys will chase me off this list????..:-(
Smitty
90 RR TD  (NON i)

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From: Ray_Burton@notes.sabre.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:08:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:00:50 +0100

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

>         I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the
series
> list.  Used to think you (Pat and Luis) were decent chaps despite the
> aberration of owning coilers.  The thought of waxing has made me
nauseous,
> recant before Nigel takes up permanent residence in you rovers.
> Aloha Peter
> >>Pat said  "Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got
> to go out and
      [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> >>Any?>>
> >Then Luis said "I already waxed mine.

I imagine to those who do wax, that it is something akin to wanking!!! ;-)~

Cheers,
Ray Burton
3 unwaxed Rovers ('64 S2a 109 SW, '70 S2a 88, '84 RR)

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:23:38 -0400
Subject: Any port in a storm

Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com> wrote:

>	Does anyone out there know which ports that Land Rover North
>America uses/used to bring in all of it's Defenders, Range Rovers and
>Discoveries to the US? 

Baltimore - for the right coast.  The ports of Norfolk are bigger (and
cheaper), but I guess Rover doesn't want their product confused with Honda
and Nissan.  Newark was used in "the olden days", but too many vehicles got
'lost'.  Still do.

A while back, a chap who worked in the same building as myself was a marine
surveyor.  Had to go aboard some ship that had a bunch of new Discos on
baord.  On a stormy crossing, one broke loose below decks and began playing
pinball with its neighbors.  Lloyd's ate the bill, LRNA scrapped 'em all....

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:15:46 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

><<Number two right here, but you should already know. :-)>>
>Ok, Luis, we'll consider your 90 an "honorary" D-vehicle, as the name
wasn't
>given to the 90/110 until 1990.
>Some will say that's a dubious honor, but hell, we're all having fun here,
>right?

Oh, I haven't told you this. The car was previously transformed from a 90 to
a D-90 by the PO, using the old magic method of
"lets-put-on-as-many-stickers-necesary-to-confuse-everybody".
So far I've taken off three Defender stickers. There is one left, but I have
my doubts about taking that out (just because its original LR and would
probably be worth something around $40 at the dealer). Give it a week more.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:23:26 -0700
Subject: Re: 1970 SIIa 88" For Sale

And we have an excellent used frame here in Vancouver for $800.00

Ray Wood

----------
> From: Keith Goffin <keith.goffin@camp.org>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: 1970 SIIa 88" For Sale
> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 6:51 AM
> I have a wonderful unmolested 1970 SIIa 88" in desperated need of
> restoration.  Everything is on my landie but a good frame.  Please help

her
> live a new life.  Offers around $1500. considered.  Call or email Keith
at

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:24:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Series I tire/tyre choices

Is $75 a decent price in which case we have one.
Ray Wood

----------
> From: Keith Elliott <landy@ican.net>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Series I tire/tyre choices
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 7:48 PM
> Hi Everyone...
>     What do all you SI 80" owners use for tires? I have been trying to

find 6.50x16 or 7.00x16 and have had no luck at all. Do you all go into a
metric size or do you change your rims and go to a 7.50x16?!?!?!
> P.S. Don't suppose that anyone out there in North America has an exhaust
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
manifold that is in good shape for sale at a decent price would ya???

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:35:00 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

 But as far as this talk about coilers not being true Land
>Rovers,  that's going too far. They are 100% LR's.  It's not the truck's
fault
>that all it gets to do is make runs to the mall.
>        Series rigs aren't the only true L-R product, just the best.  To be
>honest, I'd probably trade my hybrid for a 100 percent stock SIIA if I had
the
>chance.
>        Series rigs aren't the only true L-R product, just the best.  To be

Sorry, that wasn't what I really meant. I was talking maybe more about the
escence of things, and not about the real solid things. It's not that easy
to express your thoughts in some other language. I got maybe a little too
carried away, last night I had been at the office for 14 hours (get the
picture?)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:43:49 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

 Of course I guess we have tolerated you and Luis on this list
>even though you have those coily things instead of real he man leaf springs
>under the four corners of you boxey rover.  You guys must be special
people.
>even though you have those coily things instead of real he man leaf springs

Should I take it as a compliment?
:-)

> At least the trim would be galvanized and you wouldn't be stuck with that
>plastic fantastic dash

Tell that to me. The plastic dashboard is a "little" smashed, and the dealer
wants $750 for a new one.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 02:22:24 BST, you write:

<< Thank God coil springs are NOT necesarily restricted to plushmobiles. >>
Luis,
yes you made sense.
In the UK a Ninety or 110 (some of us really DO NOT LIKE the Defender name) is
mostly simply a Ser 3 with coils (I say mostly 'cos we suffer from Yuppies as
well - although, luckily, they usually buy Discos).
You get a Ser3 and add bits to make it more comfortable/better off road and
"modernise" it as you please.
Ninety/110 have already been "slightly modernised".
But, basically, no real difference to us.
Disco/Range Rover are different.....
There are so many different reasons for buying a real Land Rover, but one is
that the Meccano-set construction means that they can be modified to whatever
you want them to be, the limit being only imagination and money.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 07:50:58 BST, you write:

<< I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the series
 list.  Used to think you (Pat and Luis) were decent chaps despite the
 aberration of owning coilers.  The thought of waxing has made me nauseous,
 recant before Nigel takes up permanent residence in you rovers. >>

I thought they were joking. I mean doesn't the wax make the dried up dirt all
smeary??

Oh, no........no it can't be true, I'be just had a thought, you guys didn't
WASH your motors first??????

I have to go lie down in a dark room, the thought is too horrible.

Look, what the hell did you think rain was FOR?

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 02:44:14 BST, you write:

<< <<Number two right here, but you should already know. :-)>>
 Ok, Luis, we'll consider your 90 an "honorary" D-vehicle, as the name wasn't
 given to the 90/110 until 1990.
 
 Some will say that's a dubious honor, but hell, we're all having fun here,
 right? >>
works the other way as well Pat. Bring your Defender over to the UK for some
greenlaning and we'll say, "hey, nice 110" (or is it a Ninety?)

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 07:39:45 BST, you write:

<< You mean that you don't do all your own maintenance, thought they wouldn't
 talk to you on this list if you didn't have bloody knuckles and black
 fingernails.  Of course I guess we have tolerated you and Luis on this list
 even though you have those coily things instead of real he man leaf springs
 under the four corners of you boxey rover.  You guys must be special people.
<< You mean that you don't do all your own maintenance, thought they wouldn't

hey, are you saying that my 110 has coil springs as well?
I'll have to ask the chaiffeur to have a look :-)>

er do I have to leave the list? I'm not crazed, just a nutter...... :-(>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 03:25:41 BST, you write:

<< Zenith carb kits and timing gear conversions for our Tdis. >>
wow, fitting a carb to a Tdi? That I've got to see.... :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 02:22:24 BST, you write:

<< Thank God coil springs are NOT necesarily restricted to plushmobiles. >>
Luis,
yes you made sense.
In the UK a Ninety or 110 (some of us really DO NOT LIKE the Defender name) is
mostly simply a Ser 3 with coils (I say mostly 'cos we suffer from Yuppies as
well - although, luckily, they usually buy Discos).
You get a Ser3 and add bits to make it more comfortable/better off road and
"modernise" it as you please.
Ninety/110 have already been "slightly modernised".
But, basically, no real difference to us.
Disco/Range Rover are different.....
There are so many different reasons for buying a real Land Rover, but one is
that the Meccano-set construction means that they can be modified to whatever
you want them to be, the limit being only imagination and money.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:52:31 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

> I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the series
>list.  Used to think you (Pat and Luis) were decent chaps despite the
>aberration of owning coilers.  The thought of waxing has made me nauseous,
>recant before Nigel takes up permanent residence in you rovers.

Oh, you should see my "wax" job. The truck was blue with white top and white
"accents" (grill, hood striping, cappings, etc), and now I added the "wax"
all over, in light/dark brown tones. But it is not of a good quality, it
falls off with rain.
;-)

Nigel? Isn't that the guy who moved into my garage a couple weeks ago?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:16:52 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

>There are so many different reasons for buying a real Land Rover, but one
is
>that the Meccano-set construction means that they can be modified to
whatever
>you want them to be, the limit being only imagination and money.....

And as you know, I have pretty nice example of that parked outside my
window. Too bad the PO had only the imagination, missing the money!

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: UPDATE--> Series 1 Mailing List

At 09:24 AM 9/23/98 +0200, Keith wrote:
:>  To join write to:   majordomo@landrover.net
:>  with the message:   subscribe
:... which will just cause a " unknown list '' " message to be returned.
:The subscribe msg should probably contain :  subscribe series1

 Correct, and my aplogogies!!

 To sign up for the Land Rover 1948-58 Series 1 mailing list

 please write to:   majordomo@landrover.net

 with the message:  subscribe series1

 in the text portion of the message.

 Also, please send a message to me at:  cs@landrover.net

 with the year and wheelbase of your Series 1, and your location.

 Many thanks,

-Michael

 '50 80"  California

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:29:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

I am on both lists, and have square and round rovers.  Both have their places
and for me the places are not near my house downtown in Sacramento,
California, USA.  They and I are at their best in the forest on the back
roads.  They have their own faults, but are both generously imbued with the
indefinable qualities that make them Rovers.  If our vehicles are going to run
forever, with the help of RN BB and BP, then does it matter if the carbon
fiber, ion drive, ground effect BMRover looks like a VW Golf or a In-Line
skate boot?  

Rover on 

Zack Arbios

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From: "Martin Bagshaw" <Martin.Bagshaw.mbags@nt.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:33:00 -0400
Subject: RE: OVLR members Ottawa

Hi

I'm a brand new member of OVLR.
I need help and or advice on transporting a Series II. 
U-haul seems to think a series truck is too heavy for one of their car
dollies, they won't rent it to me.
Can someone offer me advice and, or, help.
Thanks,
Martin Bagshaw
Ottawa

Soon to be Series owner.

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From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 12:51:18 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: OVLR members Ottawa 

>I need help and or advice on transporting a Series II. 
>U-haul seems to think a series truck is too heavy for one of their car 
>dollies, they won't rent it to me.

dix, this sounds like a job for the club 
towbar! call out the Gin Palace! 
or is it the BGB doing the towing these days?
So hard to keep track...

>Can someone offer me advice and, or, help. 

mostly beer and quizzical glances from these guys...
and whispered comments like "look that guy is actually WORKING on a Land 
Rover...

later
daveb

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From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:53:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

> <<Just before the Palo Alto All British Field meet I washed and WAXED The
> Green Rover.>>

> It was in *Palo Alto*, so that excuses a lot of car-prep behavior. For a tony
> town like Palo Alto, waxing may have been an entry requirement... :-)
Hey!  I live in Shallow Alto!  

Last week, we got a new resident:  Ken Starr's daughter (began attending
Stanford).  This is interesting because Chelsea Clinton also attends
Stanford.  When I mentioned this to a friend of mine, he got an evil
grin and said, "Now, *that's* a mud-wrestling match I'd pay $10,000 to
see!".  I ended up having to sit on the floor I was laughing so hard.

BTW, the club that runs that meet is so impressed by the LR turnout over
the last few years, they are giving us the corner of the field
previously reserved for the Rolls-Royces.  Maybe we can get one of those
SIs with a Rolls engine next year.

> But yes, I have to agree that BRG does look good when it is 9 coats deep and
> hand waxed, Jaguar or Dormobile...

It looked very nice!

LR Content:
We've been waxing the 110 and the 90 because of the narrow,
manzanita-lined trails we've been doing in them (manzanita can go *way*
beyond 'cosmetic' damage).  It's amazing how much that does to minimize
pinstriping.  Oh, yeah, Pat, we've found Armorall to be the best wax for
Beluga Black paint, so you can add that to the discussion on the RN
bulletin board :-).   The IIA still gets no wax, but if I paint it,
it'll get waxed then--for the same reason.

C

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:01:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:12:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 9/22/98 8:14:20 PM, you wrote:

<<How many Defender owners are not intentionally making a status
statement?
Any?>>

>I do agree with you that the shiny sparkling D-90s you see in suburbia
ooze a
little bit of that status statement, but that has more to do with who's
driving it and where. There is a smidgen of difference between a Beluga
Black
(sorry, it just crops up) whatsis with hoohas on it and another one with
a few
minor dings and a few trail stories behing the grunge. Likewise, there
are now
Series vehicles being bought by suburban yuppies (as Seth's T-Shirts
say:
...now available to American Yuppie Sc*m), and it seems to be a growing
trend.
That's probably just one side effect of the LR-as-status-symbol
syndrome. 

I would agree that most Defenders today, like most Hummers, are being
purchased solely for the status of owning a "Land Rover."  While I know
there are exceptions, virtually every Defender 90 I see in the greater
Seattle area is spotless and circling a mall parking lot or driving
around the most affluent neighborhoods.  This is in complete contrast to
the situation in the late 1960s and early '70s.  I bought my Series III
in 1973 while living in Hawaii.  The local dealer had closed down a few
years earlier, so my vehicle was actually  "mail order" from a dealer in
the San Francisco Bay area.  The first I saw of it was when I picked it
up at the Matson dock in Honolulu.  But the majority of the few Land
Rovers being sold in the US were being bought to work.  The Parker Ranch
on the Big Island had a lot of Series IIas and IIIs that were used by
the ranch hands for every job imaginable.  The people I became aquainted
with in northern California who had Land Rovers had purchased them to
use for forest fire patrols, power line maintenance, and even as support
vehicles for gold dredging.  The whole "Sport Utility" thing was still a
couple of decades away; 4wds, especially utilitarian ones like the Jeep
CJ5/6, Land Rover, Land Cruiser, Nissan Patrol, Bronco, and Scout,
seemed to be purchased primarily by people who used them for what they
were designed to do.

I saw a lot of early Broncos, Scouts, and Jeep CJs during my time in
Colorado.  Many of them were working vehicles, and some were being used
for recreation to explore the countless mountain roads in that state.
But I don't recall any of the "my vehicle's better and more expensive
than yours" syndrome that seems so prevelant today.  There certainly
weren't any "Land Rover Experience" seminars at 5-star hotels in Aspen
for thousands of dollars a pop.  You learned how to drive off-road by
going out and doing it yourself.  Four wheel drives were anything but
status symbols back then.  In fact, if you drove a 4wd you were
generally looked down on by everyone else on the road.  Status vehicles
were Porsches, Mercedes, Cadillacs, Ferraris, and so forth.  While more
and more people were using 4wds for recreation, they still carried that
"ranch hand" image.

It's certainly not like that today.  Land Rover North America has done a
brilliant job of putting a luxury, status image on the Defender, a
vehicle that the rest of the world still views as a farm vehicle.  I
just returned from a week's filming on the island of Malta.  Malta has
300,000+ inhabitants and 200,000+ vehicles, many of them Land Rovers of
all vintages.  Defenders are as common as dirt, and most of them are
very, very dirty.  There's nothing status about owning a Defender on
Malta; it's simply a rugged little utility vehicle as far as the Maltese
are concerned.  Only in the US has the Defender achieved the social
status of a Mercedes or BMW.  Of course, you can say the same thing
about most other SUVs in the US, as well.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:14:36 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 9/23/98 1:00:55 PM, you wrote:

<<Hey!  I live in Shallow Alto!>>

Ooops. Sorry. But I'm sure you can relate to what I meant. Y'know, the
Atherton/Hillsborough Range Rover set.. Several friends of mine also live
there, and their daughter has a waxed 4.0 mkII. Maybe we'll cross paths one
day when i'm visiting the area...

--pat.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:16:17 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: OVLR members Ottawa

In a message dated 9/23/98 12:37:33 PM, you wrote:

<<U-haul seems to think a series truck is too heavy for one of their car
dollies, they won't rent it to me.>>

Tell e'm you have to pull a Toyota Camry.

Then go use it on your SII, which is probably lighter!

--pat.

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:18:09
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

	Thanks for the reassurance TerriAnn.  Was hoping another real rover 
hadn't
fallen off the wagon.  If you leave it parked outside, it will collect a
nice patina of dust and industrial air pollutants in fairly short order. 
	I can't wax the paint on mine because it ain't got none and if I 
polished
it, it would blind people.
Aloha Peter

>topped off.
>Don't worry about my rig giving series Land Rover's a bad name by being 
>polished.  Until I start getting an income she is only using fuel when 
>absolutly necessary.  That means after 20 weeks of sponsored long range 
>travels (unwashed), she is not going anyplace that is not necessary 
>(polished).  So whe won't embaress anyone.
>TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
>http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:29:58
Subject: Re: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

	That brings up another topic dieing for exposition.  What is the meaning
of "Wanking".  I suppose someone who "wanks" is a "wanker" and the one who
is "wanked" upon is a "wankee".

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:26:50 -1000
Subject: Re: 1970 SIIa 88" For Sale

where is the vehicle?

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From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:36:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

I've always wanted to see a naked rover towing an Airstream....

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:
8<
>         I can't wax the paint on mine because it ain't got none and if I > 
polished it, it would blind people.
> Aloha Peter

C

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:48:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

    Owning a LR has become, sadly, a status symbol in North America.  This is
similar to owning a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.  For years, people who rode
Harleys (or drove Land Rovers) were seen as salt of the earth type people.
They could be found in a bar after a hard day on the farm or in the factory
discussing life and their vehicle.  "Proper" people did not want to be
associated with us dirty folks.  Those were the good old days..... Then the
makers decided to use the heritage of the older vehicles to sell the new ($$$)
vehicles.  Did you drive your series rig to a 50th celebration?  If yes, then
you helped a company which has abandoned you.  I hope you at least failed to
say "you're welcome"  when they said thank you.  I raed on this list today
that you can buy a 110 TD in England for $18,000.  If true, then why the hell
did a 110 cost nearly $40,000 in 1993?  Did the V8 and NAS package add the
additional $22,000 plus?  How about a $18,000 motorcycle from H-D?  No thank
you.
     I cannot fault these companies for charging what they do.  After all, I
am a capitalist.  If no-one bought them, the prices would come down.  Mr Smith
at his finest.  What I find tremendous fault with is LR using the 50th
aniversary to sell product in North America when they pulled out and left us
dry 25 years ago.  A friend even bought a shirt for me at a dealership with a
IIa on it!  When I see the ads in LROI and LRW I get almost sick seeing the
$5000 110's and I think that that could have been the same on this side of the
pond.
    Perhaps the greatest insult has not yet fully appeared on the Land Rover
sean.  This is the dentist who dresses in his distressed leather H-D jacket,
dons the fake pony-tail, puts on a snap-on ear-ring and washable tattoo and
rides out to dinner with his other middle aged wanna-bes.  It is especially
sickening when they point out that my "ride" is missing it's front fender and
ask me how much it cost to buy and where do I get it serviced.  I do not look
foreward to having this conversation with a Disco owner, but I feel it coming.
    Sorry for the rant.

Enzo

     

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:14:19 BST, you write:

<< I washed and WAXED The 
 Green Rover.
 
 She DID win people's choice for Land Rovers though.  The 1973 Jagure 
 British racing green does look nice when clean and polished. >>

sometimes there's just no understanding people is there :-)>

BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s can
buy spray on mud......

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:38:00 BST, you write:

<< hand waxed, >>

?????????????

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Greased springs

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:47:49 BST, you write:

<< shreds that took a lot longer to remove :-)>
 Why did he remove it? >>

so he (we) could rewrap in hessian.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:27 EDT
Subject: Re: larger oil bath air cleaners...

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:48:33 BST, you write:

<< I would tend to think that if one was in a sand storm, that driving would
 halt, but I've never been in a sand-storm. >>

I have, it does

and we cleaned out the air filter afterwards because even after the worst of
the storm has gone, and we're dug out, there's a lot of moving sand about.

BTW a really sock-it-to-you sandstorm get's rid of a lot of paint quickly...
and without the storm you still get a really nice clean chassis (frame), sump
pan and other stuff underneath after a few hundred miles of Sahara dunes....

oh, and when it rains back home sand streaks appear for a year or so.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 15:11:20 BST, you write:

<< I imagine to those who do wax, that it is something akin to wanking!!! ;-)~
  >>
but not as much fun ?

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 15:07:34 BST, you write:

 Gee, does this mean that since I have a "non" plush mobile Rangie,
 that you guys will chase me off this list????..:-(
 Smitty
 90 RR TD  (NON i)
  >>
nope, only if you wash and wax it :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Email address thieves!

In a message dated 23/09/98 15:03:29 BST, you write:

 I AM IN NO WAY INVOLVED IN THEIR GARBAGE WHATSOEVER!
 
 ...and if I happen to find the bastard responsible, I'm gonna tear them
apart!
  >>
hope you told AOL as well

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 15:00:40 BST, you write:

<< flying bricks! >>
the saying in the UK is "all the aerodynamics of a house brick."
(the only vehicle that can slow down, coasting down a hill, with a headwind!)

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:55:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 23/09/98 14:14:19 BST, you write:

<< I washed and WAXED The 
 Green Rover.
 
 She DID win people's choice for Land Rovers though.  The 1973 Jagure 
 British racing green does look nice when clean and polished. >>

sometimes there's just no understanding people is there :-)>

BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s can
buy spray on mud......

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:00:30 -1000
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

>In a message dated 23/09/98 14:14:19 BST, you write:
>BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s

can
>buy spray on mud......
>Best Cheers

And it even comes in different colors to match the area of the country you
"went" on your trip

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:10:19
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

Christoper:
	You are a man after my own heart.  The problem would be getting the air
stream to have the same mottled patina as my rover.  Anybody got any ideas
on how to oxidize aluminum quickly so you aren't branded as a newbie or
trying to impersonate Airforce 1???  The preceding is not a serious query,
no need to respond. 
Aloha Peter

>I've always wanted to see a naked rover towing an Airstream....

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:11:34 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Beginning of the end for LR? 

>  Did you drive your series rig to a 50th celebration?  If yes, then you 
>helped a company which has abandoned you.

fair exchange for them letting me leave about a gallon of ninety-weight on 
their drive...

"buffy, look at that man, he's under his Land Rover"
"how gauche"
"maybe we should see if needs our cellphone"

eesh

scary picture you paint there enz...

later
dave

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From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:09:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

I haven't seen that one in the stores yet, but I heard about a service 
offered somewhere in New York.  They will take your nice shiny 4x4 
out on some trails and get it good and mudded up for you.  The image of an 
off-road driving, rock crawler, without all the hastle!

-Casey

According to Frankelson@aol.com:
> BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s can
> buy spray on mud......

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From: Matthew Wilson <bogatyr@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:19:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

Are they hiring?

At 02:09 PM 9/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I haven't seen that one in the stores yet, but I heard about a service 
>offered somewhere in New York.  They will take your nice shiny 4x4 
>out on some trails and get it good and mudded up for you.  The image of an 
>off-road driving, rock crawler, without all the hastle!
>-Casey
>According to Frankelson@aol.com:

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>According to Frankelson@aol.com:
>> BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s
can

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:22:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 98-09-23 14:16:24 EDT, you write:

<< I haven't seen that one in the stores yet, but I heard about a service 
 offered somewhere in New York.  They will take your nice shiny 4x4 
 out on some trails and get it good and mudded up for you.  The image of an 
 off-road driving, rock crawler, without all the hastle!
  >>

 NO!  My God, the fake pony tail has arrived, and it's driving a disco.
Shame.

Enzo

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:26:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 23/09/98 18:01:58 BST, you write:

<< abitants and 200,000+ vehicles, many of them Land Rovers of
 all vintages.  Defenders are as common as dirt, and most of them are
 very, very dirty.  There's nothing status about owning a Defender on
 Malta; it's simply a rugged little utility vehicle as far as the Maltese
 are concerned. >>

When I went to Malta some years ago I asked a guty out there who wrote to the
magazine (I worked for 4X4 then) if we could go out one day off-roading.
He wrote back and asked if we minded some friends coming along.
Sure I replied.

75 vehicles turned up!! from Ser 1 to 110s and we had a great day out.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:29:17
Subject: Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

	You can buy "Caterpillar" ball caps with the fake pony tail attached to
the hat.  Haven't seen one with a rover logo, yet.  Maybe if we all go to
our local Landie dealer and ask, they will get them in stock.  Shouldn't
cost $150 more than one with the "Cat" logo.
Aloha Peter

> NO!  My God, the fake pony tail has arrived, and it's driving a disco.
>Shame.
>Enzo

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:40:46 +0200
Subject: Frank, Frank, Frank!

Either Frank's seeing triple, or he's trying to outdo the circulation
figures for LRO?

Is the major gone bananas - I'm only getting tripos from Frank.

(Glad to see that you are up to your usual speed Frank!)

:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: Leger Marc-Andre <ma@wefa.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:45:42 -0400
Subject: LR's in the UAE

I just got back from a trip that took me from Philly to Frankfurt, then
to Abu Dhabi and Dubai (United Arab Emirates) and then to Amsterdam. I
saw Land Rovers everywhere... in Dubai they even had SII'a as Police
Vehicles, still in services... I have pictures soon to be digitized.

Got a nice picture of a 130 Pickup in Franfurt used by a contractor and
full of "contractor stuff"...

I saw some really nice old LR's in Dubai, the owners where friendly
people, they where more than happy to pose for me... with the truck, of
course... LR's are everywhere !!!

To me owning a LR is a special thing, sort of like owning a Harley, I
guess. I wanted one since I was a kid. I still remember the first one I
ever saw for real, in Canada, parked near my house. But it's also a
Mutual of Omaha thing, Serengeti or whaere ever, roaming free, safe and
without limit... If LRNA can parlé that into $$$, good for them, I'm
very happy driving around my status symbol D90 and Yes, I'm a Yuppy and
I own several other "phallic size paliatives" A.K.A. Toys.

I'm very happy about it and I smile every morning on my way to work,
'cause I'm doing it in my D-90. 

I think LR is there for a long time to come ! I also think my Land Rover
will be around longer than I will...

             / ,            |                        |
        /\  \|/  /\         | Marc-Andre Leger        |
        |\\_;=._//|         | Network Eng.             |
         \."   "./          | WEFA inc.                |
         //^\ /^\\          | 800 Baldwin Tower        |
  .'``",/ |0| |0| \,"``'.   | Eddystone Pennsylvania   |
 /   ,  `'\.---./'`  ,   \  | USA                      |
/`  /`\,."(     )".,/`\  `\ | 19022                    |
/`     ( '.'-.-'.' )     `\ | (610) 490-2763           |
/"`     "._  :  _."     `"\ | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com |
 `/.'`"=.,_``=``_,.="`'.\`  | http://www.wefa.com      |
           )   (            |                         |
 My roomate Tigger (the cat)|________________________|

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Albert Einstein  

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From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:43:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Synthetic oil

Anyone else out there using Amsoil or other 100% synthetic oil?  How 
often do you change it?  My Amsoil dealer suggested changing the filter 
at recommended intervals (3k miles) and changing oil every other (6k 
miles).  I know synthetic should last longer than conventional.

thanks,
Casey
'72 sIII 88"

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:17:41 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Waxing series rigs (was Beginning of the end for LR?)

In a message dated 9/23/98 1:57:15 PM, you wrote:

<<BTW there is a widely held belief in the UK that US owners of shiny 4X4s can
buy spray on mud...>>

Yes, it is called Fuller's Earth. 

No, I don't use it (sorry, John Hong, I really don't).

It clashes with the fake wire-wheel covers ;-)

--pat.

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:36:31
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil

	6,000 miles is the figure that is commonly mentioned.  I wouldn't worry
about changing the filter until 6 thousand, either.  Of course, if you are
in dusty conditions a shorter interval would be better.  Also, if you don't
use the vehicle that much, you might make annual changes rather than
mileage based changes.  I stopped using synthetic in mine because it seems
to be slipperier and more gets past the seals.  Purely a non scientific
observation but there seems to be less oil on the garage floor and spread
around the truck with Dyno oil than with synthetic.  That was especially
true of the gear oil. 
Aloha Peter.

 My Amsoil dealer suggested changing the filter 
>at recommended intervals (3k miles) and changing oil every other (6k 
>miles).  
>Casey

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From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

I have to throw myself on the mercy of the court. It hasn't been
waxed, but it has been washed. Attibuted totally to the over
exhuberance(sp?) of the kids when they wash the SO's car, so I have an
excuse(just not a good one). Would it help to argue that it has a
couple of pin stripes and a ding or two from semi solid objects? And
yes, before anyone cross examines, the PO put alloys on it.
(LR content)
By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash
without using a BFH? Mine finally died from old age a couple of weeks
ago, and I have been thinking about replacing it with one I have lying
around.
Smitty
---Frankelson@aol.com wrote:
 In a message dated 23/09/98 15:07:34 BST, you write:
  Gee, does this mean that since I have a "non" plush mobile Rangie,
  that you guys will chase me off this list????..:-(
  Smitty
  90 RR TD  (NON i)

 nope, only if you wash and wax it :-)>
 Best Cheers
 Frank

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From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:23:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

My Hybrid may have coil springs under the chassis but that just means that I
have taken the best of each generation and combined them in a way that suits
me best.

Lightweight bodywork; as narrow as a ser 1, flatt panels (easyly straitened),
heavy gauge Birmabright. Galvanised cappings and bumpers, easy access to most
of the chassis (the only bit I ever wax, with Waxoil) Not to mention it being
simply the best looking vehicle Land Rover ever designed.

Coil springs; none of the "to grease or not to grease" nonesense, better
articulation, better ride on and off road, no spring bushes, less breakages,
less hastle.

Carb fed V8; Ample power, no electronics, no tappets to adjust, more
economical than a 2 1/4 and still simple to maintain.

Why Land Rover never built them this way is a mystery to me.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ Rolling RR chassis (awaiting the right body)

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:29:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 98-09-23 16:13:44 EDT, you write:

<< By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash >>

Radio?  How can you hear it over the gear noi...wait a minute, here it is.
Range Rover.  I was going to put a radio in the S3, but I need to listen to
the rattles to see what needs maintenance next.

Enzo - I can actually tell when she's low on gas by ear.

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From: Vel Natarajan <vel@enteract.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:44:34 -0500
Subject: Winter, Waxoyl & POR-15

Getting the rig ready for the Chicago winter...

I'm sure this has been asked (and answered) before, but I have to do
it.  Where can I buy Waxoyl and POR-15?  I know Waxoyl can be ordered
from some Brit car place but the name and number escapes me.

I tried looking for POR15 from my local Builders Square, but did not
find it.  Any leads?

As for upgrading the heater, I'll cross that bridge when I get to
it...I'll worry about the frame first.

Thanks.

Vel
'66 SWB

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From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@MAGNET.MT>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:56:34 +0100
Subject: RE:Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Who wrote the part about Malta as I am from Malta too.

Landrovers are common in Malta part because of british influence and part 
because 
of the state of Maltese Roads.  Here the roads are full of pot holes and normal 
cars suspension those not cope with them for long before you need to replace 
something.

Also landrovers are a part a status symbol.  Just see a guy with a 90 V8 or a 
300 
TDi.

Unfortunately in Malta we have many Land rovers but very few sites for doing 
off 
roading.  Many sites are being closed by the police part due to 
enviromentalists 
preasure and part due to damage done by too much Landrovers on the same site.

If someone of you is passing by just email me and we can meet.

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

Here these cost fortune.
My 1987 90 TD cost me about $14000 which is very high compared to buying a new 
car.

MIME:lro@playground.sun.com:

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:13:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Winter, Waxoyl & POR-15

    For POR-15, check out the colored pages at the front of Hemmings.  They
always have a big ad there.
    I understand that it is practice in Canada to oil your frame with chain
saw bar oil.  Does this works well?  Do you need to re-apply during the
winter?  What is the procedure, aside from just slapping it on? Any prep work
needed?  This will be my first winter in the snow belt, and I intend to drive
the rover all winter long, but don't want a swiss cheese frame come spring.
If I spray it off at the car wash weekly, will I still be in danger of tin
worm infestaion?  My biggest fear is the electrolytic corrosion between
aluminium and steel with salt water acting as a catalyst.
    One more question.  Has anyone ever thought of using no-pourus expanable
material (expandable caulk?) in the frame to keep dirt and moisture out?  I
think I may try it on the rear cross member this weekend.  Please stop me if
you have reason to!

Enzo

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From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@magnet.mt>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:18:13 +0100
Subject: RE:Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Who wrote the part about Malta as I am from Malta too.

Landrovers are common in Malta part because of british influence and part 
because 
of the state of Maltese Roads.  Here the roads are full of pot holes and normal 
cars suspension those not cope with them for long before you need to replace 
something.

Also landrovers are a part a status symbol.  Just see a guy with a 90 V8 or a 
300 
TDi.

Unfortunately in Malta we have many Land rovers but very few sites for doing 
off 
roading.  Many sites are being closed by the police part due to 
enviromentalists 
preasure and part due to damage done by too much Landrovers on the same site.

If someone of you is passing by just email me and we can meet.

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

Here these cost fortune.
My 1987 90 TD cost me about $14000 which is very high compared to buying a new 
car.

MIME:lro@playground.sun.com:

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:35:19 EDT
Subject: Re:  Removing radio from dash

In a message dated 9/23/98 4:13:44 PM, you wrote:

<<By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash
without using a BFH? Mine finally died from old age a couple of weeks
ago, and I have been thinking about replacing it with one I have lying
around.>>

Do you have any Puerto Rican kids in the neighborhood? They are reputed to
know how ;-)

I guess you mean it is a stock Rangie Radio? If it is like my stock one was,
there may be two tabs on the sides that flip up to reveal some tiny allen head
screws; those screws are connected to two flaps that expand to trap the radio
in the dash and retract to allow removal.

Alternatively, the screws may be visible behind a tiny pair of holes midway up
the side edges.

It may have spring loaded flaps which require a flat key shaped tool (thinner
than a key) to get back there and disengage the flaps. Also, the rear may have
a grounding strap screwed to some metal brace behind the dash.

What year is it?

--pat.

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
boundary="------------6A6F4E5225F7" ]
From: "." <wxgage@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:01:45 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Re: colour code question]

I was looking for the Camel Trophy colour code and was referred to Jag
people. This is what they say the code is for the record.  Anybody out
there know any different???

In a grey poupon coloured haze,

cole stage
'67 IIA RAF ambulance "Hefulump" (as in, it is a big as a...)

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: message/rfc822 ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 41 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:00:28 +0200
Subject: Windaes 98 (little LR content

Windows 98 Recall

   It has come to our attention that a few copies of the Scotland
version  of Windows 98 may have accidentally been shipped outside
Scotland.
  If you have one of the Scotland editions you may need some help
  understanding the commands. The Scotland edition may be recognized by
looking at the opening screen. It reads WINDAES 98, Ye Ken, with a
background picture of William Wallace superimposed on a St. Andrews
Cross. It is shipped with a Mel Gibson  screen saver.

  Also note the Recycle Bin is called The Bucket.
  My Computer is called Thon Computer Thingie.
  Dialup Networking is called Phone the Bhoys.
 Control Panel is known as the Dashboard.
  Hard Drive is referred to as the bellhousin'.
  Floppies are referred to as thae wee plastic disc things.

   Other features:

 - Instead of an error message you get a windae covered with a picture
of  a neep.
 - OK = ‘ats fine
 - cancel = na na ma loon
 - reset = Och ye’d be as weel startin again
 - yes = Och aye
 - no = nae chunce mon
 - find = if ye’d bothered to pit it past in a safe place, ye widnae
need
 to look for it noo
 - go to = go’n ower ‘ere
 - back = back the wye
 - help = geese a haun’
 - stop = packit in
 - start = com on ‘en
 - settings = sittins
 - programs = stuff whit daes stuff
 - documents = stuff I hive done afore
    Also note that windaes 98 does not recognise capital letters or
 punctuation marks.

   Some programs that are exclusive to windaes 98:
 - Pincil an paper...........A word processor
 - colourin book.......a Graphics program
 - addin machine......calculator
 - Andrex......notepad
 - jukebox............CD player
 - photies.............A graphics viewer
 - Landie...............Land Rover dealers listed by Post Code
 - car.................See previous entry
 - tax records.........usually an empty file

   We regret any inconvenience it may have caused if you received a
  copy of the Scotland edition. You may return it to Microsoft for a
  replacement version.

 

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 16:52:24 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Beginning of the end for LR? 

>By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash without 
>using a BFH? 

British Football Hooligan?

later
dave

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From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:16:47 EDT
Subject: Leesburg VA off-roading

Hello All,

I would like to invite as many people as possible to join myself and a couple
of others for a day of off-roading at the Leesburg Reservoir. The tentative
date will be OCT. 17th @  10:30am at the Leesburg exit off the ''greenlane''.
Please email me , so I can work arrangements out.
I will be on vacation until Oct 5th , so don`t get discouraged if you don`t
hear from me.

looking forward to a adventurous day.
RGDS, Rick Valentino

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:31:25 -0600
Subject: Camel Yellow paint codes

They were right to refer you to Jag folks. The color is "Sandglow": Dup
44565 or PPG 24300. How do I know for sure? That's Sidney's new color!

-joseph and sidney
Missoula, MT

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:42:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Windaes 98 (little LR content

    First the Puerto Rican stereo removal comment, then the bashing of Scots. 
When do the Italian jokes start?

Enzo - "Mr Sensitive" (not actually offended.  Although I do remember when
some sally got her panties in a bunch over the use of the word "fag")

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: OVLR members Ottawa

>Hi
>I'm a brand new member of OVLR.
>I need help and or advice on transporting a Series II.
>U-haul seems to think a series truck is too heavy for one of their car
>dollies, they won't rent it to me.
>Can someone offer me advice and, or, help.

Half of those crack smokin' twits at U-Haul don't even know how to read.
Tell Larry, Daryl and Daryl at the counter that you're hauling a Jeep.
They seem to understand simple things. I just went through this in June..

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:58:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Any port in a storm

<<  a bunch of new Discos on baord.  On a stormy crossing, one broke 
loose below decks and began playing pinball with its neighbors.  
Lloyd's ate the bill, LRNA scrapped 'em all.... >>

 Sounds like a good start. Just a shame there weren`t any Freeloaders 
amongst them!

 Paul

 Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:22

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 23 Sep 1998 23:48:37 -0000
Subject: yade yade yada

hmm. 'beginning of the end' major drivel people, and we're not even
into the COLD months in the Northern Hemisphere....  :^|

waxing land rovers - hmmm. waxoyl would be straight out then :-)

Yes, I do admit, I waxed my land rover, [but I didn't inhale].
	(When it returned from the paint shop - with Zymo:l no less !)
yeah, go do it, kick me off the list.

As you may have noticed, the spam killing software now leaves notes in
the digest about what has been removed - giving the rule and the 
address matched - useful for debugging, and helping me to figure out
who is getting dropped and should be 'cause a rule is too wide.

Now I've just got to find some more time to 'fix' the rules....

Also the web site is undergoing rennovations, lots of stuff is still
there, but the top level page and stuff now pretty much goes direct
to the lists.   www.land-rover.team.net/today.html is still there
and the page to use for access to current and past messages.

    Cheers,
          Bill Caloccia			wpc@Caloccia.Net
	 http://www.Caloccia.Net/wpc/
				  R
       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
   R  1  3  2wd  H OD		  D
   +--|--|   o   | |           L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L N           |  2	    because
   '63 SII  RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:55:36 -0700
Subject: Re: OVLR members Ottawa

Martin you do not need a dolly. The 88 will tow just fine on its own wheels
- we do it all the time. Rent one of those towbars that clamp on the front
bumper and simply pull it. You do not need to lash the steering wheel it
will just follow along.

MOST IMPORTANT.  PUT THE RED TRANSFER LEVER IN NEUTRAL (CENTER POSITION)
AND THE MAIN GEAR LEVER IN 4TH BEFORE YOU START TOWING OR YOU WILL DAMAGE
THE GEARBOX.

Give us a call top discuss towing or if you need any parts we ship all over
Canada from Vancouver. 1-888 880 2600

Ray Wood

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:56:36 +0200
Subject: Re: Windaes 98 (little LR content

Far be it from me to start a racism flame war....
(I'm too busy working on the Swedish version...)
:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:04:47 -0500
Subject: RE: Windaes 98 (little LR content

>    First the Puerto Rican stereo removal comment, then the bashing of
Scots.
>When do the Italian jokes start?

Right after the lawyer jokes finish.

:-(

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:06:36 -0500
Subject: Bubble Flares

Well, I'm back.  Just did a 3K mile inaugural trip in the 59 109.  From
Duluth, thru the dakotas, up across the northern border of Montana along the
missouri and the Milk rivers, down thru the Bear Paw Mts and the Little
rockies along the missouri breaks and then back.  Had some excellent bird
work with the dogs and met many interesting folks.  Rover ran great with
only two breakdowns

1) FIne thread bolts with lock nuts on rear drive shaft worked loose.
Discovered in a small town in north dakota.  Local farm shop had some
replacement grade 12 bolts and nuts.  I used 1 inch which just barely make
it through the plastic part of the nut.  However an attempt at 1 1/2 inch
found them to be to long. So far replacements are holding but I am going to
find some 1 1/4" or cut some 1 1/2 down to 1 1/4 inch and replace at my
leisure.

2) I am new to Zenith carbs.  I found out that the short 4inch section that
is used to connect the fuel line to the carb has to be fasted with metal
clamps.  Discovered fuel leak out in the middle of Montana.  Was able to fix
and was thankful that I did not have a disasterous fire.

Made it home with all running well.  Really impressed the the power of the
Turner.  

Day after trip I had to get up early to head back to work.  Cruising down
the driveway, I found out I had no brakes!!.  Inspection discovered leak at
the Left rear line where it attaches to the coupler above the rear diff.

I have a brake flare tool from Snap on that makes great double flares but I
do not know how to make bubble flares.  I see no bubble flare tool in Snap
on catalog except for metric lines.  How do I make a good bubble flare?

cwolfe

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:06:37 -0500
Subject: Noisy gearshifter

Any tips on how to minimize the fine vibratory rattle / noise caused by the
gear shifter vibrating at highway speeds?

On my long trip, I would either constantly rest hand on shifter which would
work but is tiresome, or use throttle control as cruise control and put my
right foot up against shifter.  Would love to hear of a way to solve the
problem.  Grease?

cwolfe

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From: asfco <asfco@banet.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:44:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Winter, Waxoyl & POR-15

Vel Natarajan wrote:
> Getting the rig ready for the Chicago winter...
> I'm sure this has been asked (and answered) before, but I have to do
> it.  Where can I buy Waxoyl and POR-15?  I know Waxoyl can be ordered
> from some Brit car place but the name and number escapes me.
> Best place I have found to order POR-15 is thru 1800-POR-15-77

it comes from Maryland...no tax and free shipping. I placed an order on
a Tuesday Night at 9pm, Got it the next day using regular ups ground..
   POR-15 also has a new catalog that gives some user tip as well.  If
you have any specific questions about POR 15 tell the operator you would
like a call back...thats what I did on a couple occasions. A guy named
Bob called me rthat same night and will be ABle to assist you with any
POR questions.
  I am very satisfied  with every aspect of the products and the service
as well.
   Waxoyl is available thru Triple C Motor Accessories in pa. I cant
find the number either but if you do decide on waxoyl I would order the
large size tin...forget about their sprayer it is junk and IMHO will not
give a good result... get a regular professional tool to apply it..JC
Whitney sells a professional applicator which attaches to an air 
compressor I think it is called an undercoating/rustproofing applicator
comes with a wand and several tips to do the job the right way
spend the extra $$ and get it.
Rgds
Steve Bradke  68 lla 88
              96 Discovery

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From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:54:13
Subject: O.D. Tool

there is the info that came with mine.

  S@D Machining  9525 Cozycroft Ave. Unit 1, Chatsworth CA. 91311
      phone 818 998-6036
      fax   818 998-6424
        ask for Scott Waters or Don Vangeldereren

    "46 Years Experience"

I believe the price was $50.00 plus shipping.

Jim Wolf  

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From: Ed Alvarez <alvarez@btnmail.mozcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:27:42 +0800
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

>>I finally ended with the 90 which is not
>>a SIII, but it's the real thing still.
><SNIP
>;>I don't know if I'll be subscribed to that list <<RRO?CSO>> 
>;> for long. I feel fine in this pub, I dont think I'll change
>;> it for anything else.
><SNIP>
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
>would know where Defenders belong.
>A series rig by any other name is still a series rig.
yeah i think so too.

Ed Alvarez
Butuan City 
Philippines
D90

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:39:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

><< Zenith carb kits and timing gear conversions for our Tdis. >>
>wow, fitting a carb to a Tdi? That I've got to see.... :-)>
>Best Cheers
>Frank

Hey - the guy from Caribbean Conversions said it would bolt right on, and
also gave me a 50% discount. I thought I was doing OK.  Are you implying
that my 300 TDi doesn't need a Zenith? I thought hat all LRs did, based on
months of mail on the series  issues.

Perhaps it is just as well that I'm off to the UK in 10 days to do a one
week  intensive  course on 90 TDi mechanics at K&J Slavin..
I
(Zenith and Zeus were for different vehicles- duh!!!)
Allan
Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute (CANARI)
Vieux Fort, St. Lucia, West Indies. Tel. + 758 454 6060  Fax. + 758 454 5188

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:12:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

At 13:48 23/09/98 -0400, you wrote:
>      I raed on this list today that you can buy a 110 TD in England for

$18,000.  If true, then why the hell
>did a 110 cost nearly $40,000 in 1993?  

It is actually even worse than that. Although I reported $18,000 for the
300 TDi I have (but a 90, not 110), that was the total cost landed in
St.Lucia,  which included selecting the composition of the thing from about
50 choices, from engine to dash instruments,  delivery to K & J. Slavin and
their inspection, delivery to Southhampton to the banana boat, shipping to
the West Indies, and 20% customs duty on all of the above. 

Ok it isn't tricked out like the only NAS 90 I have ever seen, (outside
Mayflower in Miami) but there is a big difference left over for such
trickery. 
 Allan

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:23:27 -0700
Subject: Re:  Removing radio from dash

YOU GUYS HAVE RADIOS?  

At 05:35 PM 9/23/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/23/98 4:13:44 PM, you wrote:
><<By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash
>without using a BFH? Mine finally died from old age a couple of weeks
>ago, and I have been thinking about replacing it with one I have lying
>around.>>

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
>I guess you mean it is a stock Rangie Radio? If it is like my stock one was,
>there may be two tabs on the sides that flip up to reveal some tiny allen
head
>screws; those screws are connected to two flaps that expand to trap the radio
>in the dash and retract to allow removal.
>Alternatively, the screws may be visible behind a tiny pair of holes
>ago, and I have been thinking about replacing it with one I have lying
midway up
>the side edges.
>It may have spring loaded flaps which require a flat key shaped tool (thinner
>than a key) to get back there and disengage the flaps. Also, the rear may
>ago, and I have been thinking about replacing it with one I have lying
have

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:14:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Jpslotus27@aol.com wrote:

>     Owning a LR has become, sadly, a status symbol in North America.  This is
> similar to owning a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.  For years, people who rode
> Harleys (or drove Land Rovers) were seen as salt of the earth type people.
> They could be found in a bar after a hard day on the farm or in the factory
> discussing life and their vehicle.  "Proper" people did not want to be
> associated with us dirty folks.  Those were the good old days..... Then the
> makers decided to use the heritage of the older vehicles to sell the new ($$$)
> vehicles.

I don't know about LRs, but owning a H-D has always been a status symbol.
However, H-D did not survive because of marketing as a status symbol.  H-D would
have gone out of business if Congress had not protected H-D (starting in the 
early
'70s?) until H-D could come up with a better product to appeal to a broader 
market
segment.

Frank

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:32:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Faure, Marin wrote:

> I would agree that most Defenders today, like most Hummers, are being
> purchased solely for the status of owning a "Land Rover."  While I know
> there are exceptions, virtually every Defender 90 I see in the greater
> Seattle area is spotless and circling a mall parking lot or driving
> around the most affluent neighborhoods.

So what?

Frank

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From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Winter, Waxoyl & POR-15

  This will be my first winter in the snow belt, and I intend to drive
 the rover all winter long, but don't want a swiss cheese frame come
spring.
* The best rust proof that I have seen was what a guy I used to work
with did to his beetle. When he would change the oil, he would take
the old oil and spray the bottom of the car. I know, most people's
trucks all ready do this for them. It never did rust, but that sudden
stop one day didn't do it much good.

 If I spray it off at the car wash weekly, will I still be in danger
of tin
 worm infestaion?  My biggest fear is the electrolytic corrosion between
 aluminium and steel with salt water acting as a catalyst.
*It would have to work better than doing nothing at all, but wouldn't
this get you in trouble with the list for washing your rover? By car
wash, I assume that you would be spraying it and not driving it
though, right?

     One more question.  Has anyone ever thought of using no-pourus
expanable
 material (expandable caulk?) in the frame to keep dirt and moisture
out?  I
 think I may try it on the rear cross member this weekend.  Please
stop me if
 you have reason to!
*I have seen a bunch of people talk about this one on the lists. The
biggest objection that everyone raises , is the worry of your non
pourus material "trapping" water between itself and the frame. As in
not letting moisture drain ou or evaporate. A lot of people on the UK
list talk about spraying waxoil into the frame.
Smitty

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From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re:  Removing radio from dash

 Do you have any Puerto Rican kids in the neighborhood? They are
reputed to
 know how ;-)
- No, but there are plenty of military brats around that would
probably be able to do  it if they had a BFH(probably do more damage
that I would)

 I guess you mean it is a stock Rangie Radio? If it is like my stock
one was,
 there may be two tabs on the sides that flip up to reveal some tiny
allen head
 screws; those screws are connected to two flaps that expand to trap
the radio
 in the dash and retract to allow removal.
  Alternatively, the screws may be visible behind a tiny pair of holes
midway up
 the side edges.
 -I'll take a look
 It may have spring loaded flaps which require a flat key shaped tool
(thinner
 than a key) to get back there and disengage the flaps. Also, the rear
may have
 a grounding strap screwed to some metal brace behind the dash.
-Tried that. Some of the young guys that work for me are mobile
entertainment specialists, none of their keys worked even though there
are slots for them. Have to look for the screws. 
 What year is it?
90
Smitty

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Bubble Flares

At 07:06 PM 9/23/98 -0500, "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org> wrote:
:>Day after trip I had to get up early to head back to work.  Cruising down
:>the driveway, I found out I had no brakes!!.  Inspection discovered leak at
:>the Left rear line where it attaches to the coupler above the rear diff.
:>
:>I have a brake flare tool from Snap on that makes great double flares but I
:>do not know how to make bubble flares.  I see no bubble flare tool in Snap
:>on catalog except for metric lines.  How do I make a good bubble flare?

 A bubble flare is the first half of the operation of a double flare.
 It looks like this, sort of.  The angles should be about 45 degrees
 to match the angles in the fittings.

 __/||\__ press

   /  \   bubble flare
   \  /
    ||
    ||    pipe

 A double flare pushes the top half of the bubble flare inward to
 end up with a double walled cone end.

   \  /   press    
    \/

   \\//   double flare
    ||
    ||    pipe

 The tool also makes single flares, of course, which are not used
 in British cars.  The difference between US (SAE), Imperial (BSF)
 and Metric brake lines appears to be only the fittings and threads
 they use.  I've cut 3/16" (and 1/4") straight pipe bought at NAPA
 and replaced the fittings with BSF/Imperial (British) fittings.

   \  /   press
    \/ 

   \  /   single flare (not used)
    ||
    ||    pipe

 Hope this helps,

-Michael Carradine

 '50 80" with all new brake lines

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From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re[2]: Beginning of the end for LR? 

---dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org wrote:
By the way, what is the best way to get a stock radio out of the dash
without 
using a BFH? 
 British Football Hooligan?
 later
 dave
Big Flippin Hammer(or something like that). Years ago they used to be
called Ford wrenches.
Smitty

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From: "Andy Woodward" <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:26:20 +0100
Subject: Re: New Tires (!) (?)

> > Jeez, it must ride like it's on solid rubber tyres.
> Okay, okay, fine... I'll try deflating them to 35 and see what
> happens.

 \	I keep mine inflated to 50 although the max is 65, so I'm not too
\

What hte hell have you got on it??????????? Just about EVERYTHING I've 
asked manufacturers about gets the same answer (for my 90) - 25 all round 
unladen and 35 rear laden!

This has held for everything from 205R16 radials to 6.00R16 10plies and 7.50 
radials. The original 6.00x16 crossplies were  a little higher, but 
>>>>>50<<<!!!!!!!!!!!  Your insurance company has the perfect ecuse to 
weasle out of paying for any crash you are involved in - inappropriatet tyre 
pressures - contributory negligence..............

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