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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:53:12 +0100
Subject: Zenith....oh no!

:-)

I've been playing wiv me engine.....oh dear. I removed the spark plugs (I
reckon they must have been in there years!), and one broke, so I replaced
them with some Champion ones (forget the code, but they now end in CC
instead of C). The engine sounds a lot better now, but I still noticed it
was doing very silly mpg.

So.......with the aid of my haines manual, I got VERY ANNOYED. I was trying
to adjust the idle and mixture in the old beastie, simple I hear you all
cry, NOT IF YOU TRY AND USE THE B&^%&^Y HAINES 'THING'. It shows you a very
nice exploded diagram of the Zenith, and then proceeds to tell me to turn
one screw in and then out 1 and a 1/2 times, and the other screw in and then
turn once out. Which ones?! WHY AREN'T THEY LABELED IN THE BOOK!!! HELP! I'm
getting very rich mixture at the mo, and the Rancor is doing about 10mpg (if
that!).

It makes my E*plorer look fuel efficient!

PLEASE HELP ME! Also, can anyone give any hints on why she is using so much
4* ?!

Neil

SIII '78 2.25 Petrol LWB Canvas - BNH 449S Salisbury Diff. Zenith Carb -
'The Rancor'

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From: Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:45:59 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: re: what's yours called (Was: Beginning of the end for LR??)

Frank Wrote:
> actually, old boy, in the UK we do not drive 'trucks' only lorry drivers who
> listen to Country music call their large vehicles trucks...... 
> mind you, we've never really quite got round to calling L/Rs anything at all.

I refer to mine as the truck, as otherwise my nephew (age 5) insists on 
referring to it as "Uncle Paul's Van".

Read my lips, I don't drive a van even if the LWB doesn't have side windows.

Ok, ive just looked at the V5. I drive a 2-Axle-Rigid Body Pick-Up.

Aah, a Pick-Up TRUCK, QED.

Cheers,

Paul.

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From: Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:10:52 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: re: radiator question?

Robert McCullough wrote:

: i have a radiator that has a pin hole leak up on the top, about a half
: inch in front of the neck. sometimes it'll spray a steady, very fine
: stream and then it will stop. sometimes never a drop. i was gonna
: replace it with a unit out of a 65 109 4 cyl petrol that i had rebuilt
: at a local shop. 

If it is just a pinhole, it should be possible just to solder up, or have 
someone solder up the small hole.

Unless the rest of the rad is on its last legs or the core is trashed, this 
will 
get you by for a while longer.

Are the mountings tight ? if the earlier repair has failed, it could be either 
a 
bad repair or the rad has been flexing due to incorrect/bad mounting.

Cheers,

Paul.

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From: Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:12:01 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re. Greased springs

Paaul Humphries wrote:

: Has anyone tried wrapping the springs, after greasing, with plumbers
: grease impregnated cloth / hessian tape ?. It works for "normal" road
: vehicle springs instead of the traditional leather gaiters.

Nice idea in principle, but wouldn't this just hold water/moisture against the 
springs ?

Not so much of a problem with the swivel balls with gaitors as these are 
supposedly chromed.

Paul"pitted balls"W.

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:17:39 EDT
Subject: Re: O/D tool Status

Please repost the info to the list as I am also interested.

Nate

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:25:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re. Greased springs

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it wrote:

:: Has anyone tried wrapping the springs, after greasing, with plumbers
:: grease impregnated cloth / hessian tape ?. It works for "normal" road
:: vehicle springs instead of the traditional leather gaiters.
:
:Nice idea in principle, but wouldn't this just hold water/moisture against the 
:springs ?

Glopping goodly quanties of grease on everything should do a good job of
keeping moisture off.  Of course, the grease will pickup any crud that
finds its way past the gaiters and make a nice grinding compound.  On a
Land-Rover, this is much more of a problem then on a Jag.  Dry grapite has
the advantage of not attracting grit.  It is routinly used to lubricate
things like grain chutes, which are exposed to much finer dust than most
Land-Rovers are.  Suspended in an areosol, it has fairly good penetration
between the leaves.  It is also dirt cheap, at three or four bucks a
n application.

David

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From: Art Maravelis <amjas@gis.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:30:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Leaf spring gaiters

Greetings,

After numerous postings and debates over the "should I grease my leaf
springs" question here's my 2-cents (actually a dime):

    gaiters  !

Yep! Rolls Royce used them back when. It seems to me they can be easily made
from either leather or even a sheet of rubber. One can shape it around the
spring, trim it nicely and glue the seam (if rubber) to keep out stuff. If
the seam is glued very well it may even prevent rust buildup. Granted, it
may be tricky to seal the entire spring but is that really necessary? Surely
a little exposure around the hangers is tolerable.

That should be enough to get someone started. When I fit new springs I'll
give it a try.

Art
'72 S3 88
'69 TR6 PI
Boston, MA
USA

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:31:29 -0500
Subject: RE: Paul's Paint Color

>Now, having calmed down..... Hi Paul, we forgive her for driving a
>Mitsubishi Pajero (what we call the Shogun).

Oh, you mean a Mitsubishi Montero? 
(Complicated Marketing from the Japs!)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:48:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Zenith....oh no!

Niel -
	I have just gone through the same thing with my solex - the manual
is lacking, to say the least.  Here is what I did, It runs a little better
- haven't measured gas milage yet.

>...turn one screw in and then out 1 and a 1/2 times, and the other screw
>in and then
>turn once out. Which ones?!...

The one you back off and then turn in once just after it touches is the one
on the throttle stop - it sets the minimum idle speed.  Do that first.

Then the other screw - it is the one in the diagram that is pointy - it is
a needle screw, on my solex it is right near where the vaccuum hose runs
out.  Turn it in untill it stops, then out 1.5 turns.

This alone left my engine running ruch.

I then warmed my engine until operating temp.  It ran fine with a few
'non-firing spots.'  I then further adjusted the needle screw untill it ran
smoothly - there were no misfires.  I needed to back the needle screw off a
few more turns untill it was smooth.

A few days/weeks ago someone wrote in and asked why there engine slowed
down and started to miss when they stopped at a light or something.  Mine
was doing this - it must have been too rich - mine no longer does this.

Hope this helps - Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:53:11 +1000
Subject: Re: perentie's down under

Peter Hope, see below.  Coincidentally, I've been searching the magazines
for the commander's car listed below - I've seen it advertised often but do
you think I can find the advert.

Land Ranger Spares had it at the 50th Anniversary celebrations at Cooma
(Australia).  I looked at it - and looked at  - and looked - at and finally
decided my wife would kill me if I bought it.  I was tempted.  The price
wasn't bad if I recall.  You had better check the web site.

Regards,

Ron
>Peter Hope asked about 6x6 perentie LRs,

<Replying to peter's questions and adding to ron's reply, please note the
vehicle advertised in the 4x4 mag. at land vehicle spares is NOT a perentie
vehicle, this is only an early Rover experimental model.Genuine perentie 6x6
vehicles new cost A$ 200,000 approx this is why the army are not currently
releasing these vehicles and they have an army service life of 50 years.
If Peter is interested we can supply GENUINE 4x4 Perentie 5 door senior
commander with army trailer.Please view our website
http://www.chariot.net.au/losv/public for pictures and more information, we
also stock aftermarket/OEM parts. can arrange shipping

Regards Achim,
Land Ranger Spares
E-mail losv@chariot.net.au

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:25:53 -0700
Subject: Re: tyre (tire) pressures

Thanks!  I saw some specs on the BFG webpage, and I think loaded radius was
among them.

At 09:07 AM 9/22/98 +1000, you wrote:

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From: "Chris Dillard" <cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:51:27 -0400
Subject: No Mail

Is it just me, or has anyone else only rec'd several list messages? It
can't be me, i've already had my 4 ccccups of ccccoffee thithithisss
mornnniiinnnggg!!

Chhheeeerrrss,

Christopher Dillard
Database Administrator        Phone: 864-987-8633
BONUSCARD Marketing           Fax:  864-675-5456
Ahold USA (BI-LO Inc.)        E-Mail:cdillard@aholdusa.com
Greenville SC USA             www.bi-lo.com

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From: Jeff Gauvin <jeff.gauvin@symbios.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:49:42 -0600
Subject: Origin of term "SUV"

This was discussed some time ago on rec.autos.4x4, and someone came
up with a sales brochure for the 1966 Ford Bronco (the original one)
that referred to the pickup version of that vehicle as a Sports
Utility vehicle. If you recall, the original Bronco was almost as
utilitarian as the Series rigs of the time, and possibly more
utilitarian than todays Defenders.

Check out this scanned copy:

  http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/9742/66broch4.htm

Using this as the "official" definition, the Defender is the closest
thing there is to a true SUV!

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
:Ray_Burton@notes.sabre.com wrote:
::By the way, who ever came up with the catagory Sport Utility vehicle,
::anyway?  I assume it was to appeal to the "sitck-up-their-ar$e" Yuppie
::market who think it's too "blue collar" to be associated with
::something so commaon place as a Four-Wheel-Drive truck.
:
:I don't know who coined the name "sport utility" but I think it was
:developed for the original Chevy Blazer / GMC Jimmy, etc. Suburbans,
:Travelalls, etc. were refered to a "utilities", and "sport" was appended
:to signify a smaller, sportier, less utilitarian vehicle. The "sport"
:may also have refered to field sports such as fishing and hunting. Those
:were two popular pastimes folks purchased those vehicles for. That's my
:theory.

--
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:07:35 -0700
Subject: Oil bath air filter

Contrary to some people's belief, the intake air is not drawn through
the oil in an centrifugal oil bath filter, at least not the one Land
Rover uses.  If this were the case, the engine would have to develop a
HUGE amount of vacuum to get the air through the oil, and most of the
oil would be sucked into the engine.  The oil at the base of the air
cleaner is a simply a trap, not unlike those indoor clothes-drier lint
traps you can buy that direct the exhaust air from the drier over a
container of water.  The lint, or in the Land Rover's case, the dust,
hits the top of the oil bath and sticks there, to sink slowly to the
bottom of the bath over time.  The air deflects off the top of the oil
bath and heads up through the wire mesh that fills the body of the
container around the center intake core.  The wire mesh, which gets a
fine coating of oil over time from the air ricocheting off the oil pool,
traps whatever dust particles don't adhere to the surface of the oil
pool.  Servicing consists of changing the oil, not because it's dirty
but to clean out the dirt sludge that accumulates at the bottom of the
container, and thoroughly cleaning the wire mesh by running solvent
through it.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:27 -0500
Subject: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question) no LR content

This may sound like a very dumb question, but I really don't know.

What does "ping" means in internet related stuff?
I've seen the term many times, but never asked.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Chris Dillard" <cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question) no

Basically, it helps to identify and confirm IP addresses.

Christopher Dillard
DBA

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:19:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question)

dj'ever see a WWII movie with submarine action in it?  Remember that hokey
"PING" sound in the background?

In the context of the Internet, Computer One Pings Computer two by sending
a request across the net.  Computer Two either gets the "ping" and responds
or is not on line (may be turned off, may be unplugged, may have defective
networking goo etc.)  A ping is a basic test for internet connectivity.

At 01:08 PM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:16:05 -0500
Subject: RE: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question) no

>Basically, it helps to identify and confirm IP addresses.
>Christopher Dillard
>DBA

It was your "ping" which I saw. :-)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Chris Dillard" <cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:20:19 -0400
Subject: RE: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question) no

Helps to know I'm getting through. Although I've posted several other
messages throughout the day and have not rec'd them. Just wondered if I
want still hookied in.

Thanks for the reply,
Christopher

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:54 -0500
Subject: RE: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question)

> What does "ping" means in internet related stuff?
> I've seen the term many times, but never asked.

As with most 'internet' terminology,it actually existed WAAAYY
before there was ever and internet...

ping comes from a submarine's ping sound they make to
see if anything is out there... you use it in computers
to see if a computer is out there... the answer to a ping
is an 'ack' (acknowledgement)

so when people write 'ping' in an email message, they are
looking for an 'ack' to see if anyone got their message.

 -Scott  

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From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:30:28 EDT
Subject: Re: tyre (tire) pressures

All this talk of tyre pressures prompted me to notice the pressures stenciled
on the wheelarches of an Army Wolf 110 on the M11 today (I even slowed down
beside it to double check) 48 yes forty eight PSI at the rear and 33 in the
front. They run 750X16
Goodyear G90 tyres. I never run my rears higher than 36 PSI even when fully
loaded and  fronts 28, and that is on XCLs. (I do run G90s on the rear for
competition usually at 22 PSI. They give far better traction than the XCLs but
the XCLs stay on the front for better steering lock)

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ Rolling RR chassis (awaiting the right body)

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:45:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Kamal Trophie

In a message dated 22/09/98 00:05:34 BST, you write:

 I hope they continue to buy and baby these. I have plans for a powder puff
 socker mom special in a coupla' years 8^). 
  >>
yeah, but remember you may have to rebuild the transfer box as it will never
have been used.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:45:05 EDT
Subject: Re: tyre (tire) pressures

In a message dated 22/09/98 00:09:34 BST, you write:

<< need a good level surface to do
 it. and a good accurate measuring device (the sewing tape measure probably
 wouln't do  - but one of those things for getting hems straight might !) >>
you seem strangely familar with those items..... is there something we should
be told ???

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:45:02 EDT
Subject: Re: ser 3

In a message dated 21/09/98 23:46:57 BST, you write:

<< Red/blue/black/grey/white and bronze green? >>
close, but you wasted the first six words of that sentence  :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:45:01 EDT
Subject: Re: ser 3

In a message dated 21/09/98 23:41:49 BST, you write:

 ... get rid of the black & grey, and just keep it red, white and blue like
the
 flag? (your flag, that is)

My flag is white with a red cross, I'm English first, British second 
 
 <<... paint it with whatever's in the back of the garage? (carport for
brits?) >>

correct*
 
 <<... call around three counties to find out who's got what On Sale? (We know
 you by now, Frank) >>

did that, hence what's in the back of the garage *
 
 >>... paint it Green and give it a name? (Bronze Green?, nahhh. I would never
 have guessed!)
  >>

In the back of the garage I just happen to have a few tins of Land Rover Deep
Bronze Green *  :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:49:44 EDT
Subject: RE: Internet terminology question (ping)

In a message dated 9/22/98 4:24:33 PM, you wrote:

<<ping comes from a submarine's ping sound they make to
see if anything is out there... you use it in computers
to see if a computer is out there... the answer to a ping
is an 'ack' (acknowledgement)>>

...and I always thought the appropriate answer was "Pong"

--pat "that was the first and last TV game I played" parsons

ps: even at that I had trouble! ;-)

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:51:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Kamal Trophie

In a message dated 9/22/98 1:48:16 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Frankelson@aol.com writes:

<<  I hope they continue to buy and baby these. I have plans for a powder puff
  socker mom special in a coupla' years 8^). 
   >>
 yeah, but remember you may have to rebuild the transfer box as it will never
 have been used..... >>

Maybe the *new* politically correct name for the CT events should be "Kamal
Lite Trophy"..........

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:53 -0500
Subject: RE: tyre (tire) pressures

<< need a good level surface to do
 it. and a good accurate measuring device (the sewing tape measure   
probably
 wouln't do  - but one of those things for getting hems straight might !)   
> you seem strangely familar with those items..... is there something we   

should
> be told ???

He's the one who made that dress for me that I ruined that time
my rover broke down on the Triborough bridge.

 -S  

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:32:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Paul's Paint Color

<< >  (& Wifey drives: Mitsubishi Shogun 3.0 V6 LWB Auto. (H reg)
Gawd, I hate that!  What the heck year model is a "H-reg" car?  It 
doesn't
mean a thing to us Antipodeans.  I've asked Frank to speak to the
Powers-That-Be in LROI and Popular Classics about it.  Please refer to 
cars
by their year of build, not their year of registration (which is in 
code!).

Now, having calmed down..... Hi Paul, we forgive her for driving a
Mitsubishi Pajero (what we call the Shogun). >>

 Ooops! Wifeys Shogun is a 1991. I understand "Pajero" means something 
rude in Spanish. That probably explains why they are called Monteros in 
 North America.
 
 Having taken it off road at Bala in North Wales (at David Mitchells 
Landcraft site), I can report it is very competent off road.
 
 However, any scratches etc would cost a small fortune to sort 
out,which is why I bought Dougal.
 
 Six months after we bought the Shogun (second hand, from a Mitsubishi 
Main Dealer) the head gasket blew due, it appears, to abuse by the 
previous owner. When the motor was stripped they found: cracked heads 
and corrosion pitting to the block faces. The solution was two new 
heads and, after a short discussion with me, a Genuine Mitsubishi Short 
Engine to go with them.
 
 The bill for parts & labour was £3500 (yes Three Thousand Five Hundred 
Pounds Stirling).
 
 And the Mitsubishi Warranty paid for it. :)
 
 Guess why that car now has Mobil 1 lubricant...

 Paul

 Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:49

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:54:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question)

In a message dated 22/09/98 21:24:33 BST, you write:

<< As with most 'internet' terminology,it actually existed WAAAYY
 before there was ever and internet...
 
 ping comes from a submarine's ping sound they make to
 see if anything is out there... you use it in computers
 to see if a computer is out there... the answer to a ping
 is an 'ack' (acknowledgement)
 
 so when people write 'ping' in an email message, they are
 looking for an 'ack' to see if anyone got their message.
  >>
this internet business is taking me back to the Sixties when I worked in a
newspaper branch office and we sent stories on a teleprinter to head office.
Much of the shorthand stuff (like yr. for your, cn for can etc) is the same
and a few of the items like BTW & IMV are the same although a lot of modern
phrases have come in of course.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:54:11 EDT
Subject: Whitworth/AF

Gentlemen and Ladies,
there was some discussion on this list a while ago about Whitworth nuts/bolts.
I've just found a mail order place which sells Abingdon King Dick and Williams
Superslim tools in Whitworth and A/F sizes at reasonable prices in £UK - dunno
how they compare to US prices but ISTR that they are not easy to get at any
price.
They do ship abroad..
The company is A&R Sheldon Tel/Fax 0161 440 0821 for a catalogue and price
list.

BTW Williams Superslim made O/E spanners for Jaguar/Daimler and Triumph - some
of you Brit collectors may know the name.
Abingdon King Dick  were making tools before the motor car was invented.... 
Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:04:19 -0700
Subject: larger oil bath air cleaners...

So anybody know of a source for an oilbath air cleaner for something bigger
than the 2.25...say a V8 or a Tdi! Tdi! Tdi! (say anybody hear from Stefan
in Germany lately?)

Besides the testimonials to its effectiveness, there is also the cheap
prick angle to consider...namely oil is probably way cheaper and takes up
less space than paper element filters!  

I guess you should remember to check the oil level if you flip! :)

How stupid would it be to manifold a couple of old series oil baths for a
larger engine?

John

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Hanne Sønnichsen" <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:15:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Internet terminology question (most likely dumb question)

I sw Frnks mssg - knw jst wht he mns abt the abbrvs stop. Fortunty th
Inet is nt so bd as old days stop. Evn mssgs on lro r easr 2 rd thn
Frnks copy frm daysgoneby.

Mny tgram abbrevs stem frm th fct tht tgrams wr chrgd pr word in som
plcs - so runningwordstogetherstop =moniessaved

ttfn!

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:41:34 EDT
Subject: Beginning of the end for LR?

Estimados Compadres:

In the US, the Defender is not usually sold to the same type of customers as
the Discovery and Range Rover.  LRNA and it's dealer network are set up to
sell high priced, imported, luxury 4x4 cars to affluent, suburban, status
conscious buyers.  When the Freelander arrives in the US, it will surely be
made to fit this image (suitably plushed up with V6, automatic transmission,
air conditioning, leather upholstery, power windows, CD player, etc.).
Defenders just do not fit this picture.

This is only a guess: The few Defenders imported into the US were brought in
to bolster the Land Rover image.  In other parts of the automotive industry,
manufacturers support racing teams as a way of promoting their cars.  Most of
their prospective buyers would not want a real race car, since these are too
hard to live with as daily drivers.  They will buy something close, which
LOOKS like the real thing.  They buy the IMAGE.  (Do you remember wire wheel
covers?)  The Defender, with it's venerable Series ancestors, gives
credibility to the image that sells a lot of Range Rovers, Discoveries and
soon Freelanders.

It is not clear why money can not be made in the US market selling spartan,
rugged, utility trucks to utility companies, farmers, ranchers, contractors,
mining firms or a bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics.

Recuerdos,

Paul Donohue
1965 Pre-Defender 109
Denver

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:22:39 EDT
Subject: Re:  Beginning of the end for LR?

<<(Do you remember wire wheel
covers?)>>

Yes, I have a set on the 110, but I remove them for rallies ;-)

<<It is not clear why money can not be made in the US market selling spartan,
rugged, utility trucks to utility companies, farmers, ranchers, contractors,
mining firms or a bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics.>>

Chevy? Ford? GMC? Maybe that's why there aren't too many specialist foreign
4x4 vehicles here. They make vehicles that are cost less to produce, cost less
to buy and cost less to operate & maintain, at least in this country. In some
cases, they are just plain a better vehicle for the job (like towing a 35 foot
5th wheel camper trailer) I know it sounds like heresy, especially on this
list, but this is the USA, and the trucks that are designed to do the job here
(the US full-sizes and larger) really do the job better than the LR products,
yes, even the 130. Granted, they may not have the full-on 4x4 ability of the
LR's, but how often is that really necessary. Just look at how 98% of the
pick-ups and utility trucks are used here in the US, and see if LR can do it
for less $. That's all.

(I'll probably get a lot of "I use my Landy in 2nd low every other day, etc.,
letters, but that isn't my point. My point is for the average, mass consumer,
and as pointed out above: "utility companies, farmers, ranchers, contractors,
mining firms")

I don't mean to imply that land rover vehicles aren't up to it, but when you
can buy a 1-ton full size turbo diesel truck here for less than a 1/2 ton swb
land rover, well, these rednecks just ain't gonna go for it. Neither will the
bean counters at larger utilitie companies...

Everytime I look at Land Rover's line-up, I think of the English Countryside,
with small lanes, small distances to cross, etc., and then I contrast that
with say Kansas, and the huge scale of things, and how the US manufacturers
have addressed the need with a line-up of larger vehicles.

The "bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics" will buy spartan
stripped out 90's, but then who else? They are a tiny segment, really, and
they also have to be a well-off bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing
fanatics, since no matter how much the price of a 90 comes down, it will still
cost $$$ to modify it to where they are happy. (BTW, 90s in general are pretty
basic, the soft tops, that is. All the complications are engine management
related, and that's easy enough to change. I haven't been to a rally lately
when a TDI *didn't* turn up.) The average buyer still looks to see how
comfortable they will be, and how easy it will be to get service. I know many
on this list don't have LRNA vehicles, but even today trying to get parts &
service for a good price at a LRNA dealer is unheard of. And the US just
doesn't have the network of independents that the UK has, and the independents
I've visited charge virtually as much as anyone else. Basically, it looks
very, very impossible. 

I think we are lucky enough that some defenders were brought here, and also
lucky that if one is determined enough, one can still get a defender (thanks
to its meccano body style).

If the defender I have wasn't available when I got it(95?) I would not have
bought a Disco/RR mkII, but leased one with the intent of giving it back as
IMHO they just don't have the traditional Land Rover character; as I don't
care what anyone on the coil-list says, they just aren't the same as the
"square/flat" ones. And now the future of that is in question. What's the
world coming to?!

Today, I'd rather spend a butt-load of money and have a 109 coiled and tdi'd
before I bought a soft-shape LR, but that's probably why I subscribe to LRO,
and not CSO/RRO...

...and I don't know why I just wrote all of the above, because we're all on
this list for similar reasons, and we all know why. This list ain't no plush
pub in Mayfair (or Aspen) ;-)

.02

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:10:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

> In the US, the Defender is not usually sold to the same type of
> customers as
> the Discovery and Range Rover.  LRNA and it's dealer network are set
> up to
> sell high priced, imported, luxury 4x4 cars to affluent, suburban,
> status
> conscious buyers.

Most Defender owners are affluent, suburban, and status conscious. I
don't know what the demographics are but coming up with $30k plus for a
vehicle implies some degree of affluence. I see Defenders mostly in
suburbia, which is where most of the affluent folks live. How many
Defender owners are not intentionally making a status statement? Any?
True, it's a different statement than the BMW, Trans-Am or Range Rover
owner makes, but still a statement.

> When the Freelander arrives in the US, it will surely be
> made to fit this image (suitably plushed up with V6, automatic
> transmission,
> air conditioning, leather upholstery, power windows, CD player, etc.).
> Defenders just do not fit this picture.
> status

Otherwise we won't see any Freelanders on this side of the Atlantic. LR
[spamkill:  blah input: %s]	 exists to make money. (I'd like to see a L4, 
manual transmission, basic

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:33:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:
> <<(Do you remember wire wheel
> covers?)>>
> Yes, I have a set on the 110, but I remove them for rallies ;-)

Are those the 14" rims with tiny tires mounted to them?  Geez I'm
jealous.  I've been wanting to rice-out my 110 for a while, now!

> <<It is not clear why money can not be made in the US market selling spartan,
> rugged, utility trucks to utility companies, farmers, ranchers, contractors,
> mining firms or a bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics.>>

8<
> Everytime I look at Land Rover's line-up, I think of the English Countryside,
> with small lanes, small distances to cross, etc., and then I contrast that
> with say Kansas, and the huge scale of things, and how the US manufacturers
> have addressed the need with a line-up of larger vehicles.

I think that distance is the big issue here.  We drive very large
distances in this country.  That makes a big difference, IMO.

C

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:12:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 9/22/98 8:14:20 PM, you wrote:

<<How many Defender owners are not intentionally making a status statement?
Any?>>

One here... but then you'd have to know me and my defender. 

Definitely no intentional status here. If status concerned me, I would have a
College degree, babes by the pool and a Range Rover for when I don't want to
drive the Bentley in the rain.  

I do agree with you that the shiny sparkling D-90s you see in suburbia ooze a
little bit of that status statement, but that has more to do with who's
driving it and where. There is a smidgen of difference between a Beluga Black
(sorry, it just crops up) whatsis with hoohas on it and another one with a few
minor dings and a few trail stories behing the grunge. Likewise, there are now
Series vehicles being bought by suburban yuppies (as Seth's T-Shirts say:
...now available to American Yuppie Sc*m), and it seems to be a growing trend.
That's probably just one side effect of the LR-as-status-symbol syndrome. 

Here's a funny story: I'm cleaning out the muck from under. Someone comes up
and asks if i'd consider selling (ha!). He then asks how much they go for, I
say, "Oh, starting around 39 for a decent one..." Thirty-Nine Hundred! Wow,
that's really doable, where do we find one... "nope, I meant 39 Thousand,
buddy." For that old thing? he asks, probably thinking it is older than it is.
Oh well, so much for having a status symbol.

<<True, it's a different statement than the BMW, Trans-Am or Range Rover
owner makes, but still a statement.>>

Yeah, my defender makes a different statement, kinda like: "watch my blinker,
yuppie-miata-boy/man, I'm *merging, now*..."

Hmmm. I'm now wondering what to make of this thread. 

Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got to go out and wax
my defender before the hurricane comes...

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:20:12 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

>they just aren't the same as the
>"square/flat" ones. And now the future of that is in question. What's the
>world coming to?!
>Today, I'd rather spend a butt-load of money and have a 109 coiled and

tdi'd
>before I bought a soft-shape LR, but that's probably why I subscribe to
LRO,
>and not CSO/RRO...
>"square/flat" ones. And now the future of that is in question. What's the
>world coming to?!

When I was on the search for my rover, my first thought was for a SIII. I
went to see SIIs, SIIAs, SIII, and Santanas.Then a friend of mine heard of
my need and began to "help" me. He came to my house with about 4 diferent
guys selling their Rangies. I went to the mandatory rides. Plush-rides that
is. I couldn't convince my friend that I wanted a Rover, but not any Rover,
I wanted the boxy kind, I wanted the rugged kind, I wanted the real thing
(not that Rangies arent too real off-road marvels, but lack some of the
spirit)
I finally ended with the 90 you're all tired of reading about, which is not
a SIII, but it's the real thing still.
When I tell people that I now have a Land Rover, they always ask " a
Rangie?" or "a Disco", and every time I feel proud to say NO, I BOUGHT THE
BOXY THING.

Immediatly after I bought it I decided to join the RRO/CSO list. I dont like
wasting my time reading about cleaning oxygen sensors, warranty claims,
central locks jamming and GPS crash because year 2000.

I don't know if I'll be subscribed to that list for long. I feel fine in
this pub, I dont think I'll change it for anything else.

Thank God coil springs are NOT necesarily restricted to plushmobiles.

Did I make any sense?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:27:37 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

><<How many Defender owners are not intentionally making a status statement?
>Any?>>
>One here... but then you'd have to know me and my defender.

Number two right here, but you should already know. :-)

>Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got to go out and
wax
>my defender before the hurricane comes...
>Any?>>

I already waxed mine. How is the name for that thing... Turtle-Mud or
something.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:42:03 EDT
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 9/22/98 9:30:10 PM, you wrote:

<<Number two right here, but you should already know. :-)>>

Ok, Luis, we'll consider your 90 an "honorary" D-vehicle, as the name wasn't
given to the 90/110 until 1990.

Some will say that's a dubious honor, but hell, we're all having fun here,
right?

--pat

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:58:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

My comments on Defender owners were in reference to the North American
market.

I probably should have said "image" rather than "status statement". I
didn't mean Defender owners were seeking to climb the social ladder,
just that they want to make a statement about who they are by driving a
Defender rather than a more common/ordinary vehicle.

Most cars and non-commercial trucks are partly a fashion statement.
Certainly few in NA drive LRs because they represent the most utility
and least hassle for the least money. But few private individuals select
their vehicles solely on that basis.

Regards,
David Cockey
(Time to add the disclaimer that my statements on this list have nothing
to do with my employer.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Russ Burns <burns@ismi.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:10:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Come on,
It the only vehicle I can cook breakfast on the hood, and fenders.
Put the tent on the roof, three bikes on the back, 12 extra gallons
of gas, Food, clothes, wife, kid, and head up the Dempster to Inuvik.

Russ

At 09:58 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:52:27 -0400
Subject: Re: larger oil bath air cleaners...

At 15:04 22/09/98 -0700, you wrote:
>So anybody know of a source for an oilbath air cleaner for something bigger
>than the 2.25...say a V8 or a Tdi! Tdi! Tdi! (say anybody hear from Stefan
>in Germany lately?)
>Besides the testimonials to its effectiveness, there is also the cheap
>prick angle to consider...namely oil is probably way cheaper and takes up
>less space than paper element filters!  

I thought the Tdi filters were pretty cheap, considering their size - about
7 pounds something in the UK, so still cheap with postage, especially as
part of a group order for a bunch of stuff. When you have paid the
equivalent of around $18,000 for a custom-spec 90 300Tdi then the cost of
air filters is negligible.
The question is - are oil bath filters more efficient than the current
paper filters? The Tdi really sucks air.
Allan.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:24:57 -0400
Subject: Re:  Beginning of the end for LR?

At 19:22 22/09/98 -0400, Pat wrote:
 I haven't been to a rally lately when a TDI *didn't* turn up.

Wot! I TDi in the US? Is this on private land, like the TDi Discoverys used
for CT practice? Or really on-the -road things?

>If the defender I have wasn't available when I got it(95?) I would not have
>bought a Disco/RR mkII, but leased one with the intent of giving it back as
>IMHO they just don't have the traditional Land Rover character; as I don't
>care what anyone on the coil-list says, they just aren't the same as the
>"square/flat" ones. And now the future of that is in question. What's the
>world coming to?!

A  message I got from Chris Swart (ZA list) a couple of months ago on the
performance of the new Defender being made in South Africa was a real shot
in the arm and some consolation re what the world has come to. The model
and the plant were obviously some investment by BMW, using their engine. In
Zim some months ago I saw quite a number of  new locally-built D90s and
110s. I think the square ones will be around for a little while yet.
But in 20 years when all of us rightangulars are bemoaning the advent of
the ion drive and polycarbonate construction, we'll be united in our search
for the best source Zenith carb kits and timing gear conversions for our Tdis.

Allan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Keith Elliott <landy@ican.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:48:58 -0400
Subject: Series I tire/tyre choices

Hi Everyone...

    What do all you SI 80" owners use for tires? I have been trying to find 
6.50x16 or 7.00x16 and have had no luck at all. Do you all go into a metric 
size or 
do you change your rims and go to a 7.50x16?!?!?!

P.S. Don't suppose that anyone out there in North America has an exhaust 
manifold that is in good shape for sale at a decent price would ya???

Thanks

Keith
1961 Series II 88"
1953 Series I 80" (Sister's little beast)
Ottawa

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:00:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR? 

In message <bulk.19090.19980922181249@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> that's really doable, where do we find one... "nope, I meant 39 Thousand,
> buddy." For that old thing? he asks, probably thinking it is older than it is

	One of the LR dealerships near Boston (Peabody) has been selling
1993 D110s for $55,000 each.  And finding buyers.   I can't believe it.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

My first LR was a 1988 RR that I bought for my wife.  I probably bought it for a
status symbol, but after having that leaky, oil-dripping, rusty thing for a year
I knew that I was hooked.  I felt that my wife and children were secure in it.
I could go places on my property that my tractor wouldn't go (Ford 5000;English
-built).  But when I sold it for a 1997 Y*kon,  there was a void that I had to
fill.  I found an  old NADA  and started to do a frame up, but realized by the
time I restored the frame that it was a lost cause. Too many missing parts and
too much corrosion/rust.  Then I acquired the 100" hybrid last Christmas.
      Anyway, a few weeks ago when the hurricane remnants came through Ga., my
wife slid down in a ditch while avoiding a downed tree in the road.  I was 50
miles away at the time and could not help.  She sat in the mud for several hours
with two small children before friends  could pull her out (shows that having a
zillion horsepower Vortec don't mean squat!).  I decided that day that she will
have a Solihull product again.  Looked at some Discos,  but found a 1995 RR last
week with only 17k mi (and its NOT Beluga Black!)  I now feel at ease again when
the wife and kids leave home.
        I agree with Luis about the cso-list; there's just too much stuff that I
don't find relevant.  But as far as this talk about coilers not being true Land
Rovers,  that's going too far. They are 100% LR's.  It's not the truck's fault
that all it gets to do is make runs to the mall.
        Series rigs aren't the only true L-R product, just the best.  To be
honest, I'd probably trade my hybrid for a 100 percent stock SIIA if I had the
chance.

--
Winn Bearden
P.O. Box 464                                  19?? SII/SIIA/SIII 100" Hybrid
(almost finished)
Americus, GA 31709                       1967  NADA 109" SW (almost rusted sway)

912-924-6513 (H)                            1995 RR County
912-942-3855 (CELL)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:15:00 -0500
Subject: US Ports of Entry

	Does anyone out there know which ports that Land Rover North
America uses/used to bring in all of it's Defenders, Range Rovers and
Discoveries to the US?  I would suspect that they use one on the East Coast
and one on the West coast, but I don't have any concrete information.

	Thanks.
 
Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:27:57 -0500
Subject: Re: US Ports of Entry

I believe that the stickers at the Atlanta LR Centre said Brunswick, GA as port
of entry.    (Hard to read through the drool on the glass!)

Benjamin Smith wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:37:23 EDT
Subject: Re: US Ports of Entry

Ben,

here on the West coast, they use Port Hueneme (pronounced whyneemee),
California.

Charles

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:37:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

DONOHUEPE@aol.com wrote:

> It is not clear why money can not be made in the US market selling spartan,
> rugged, utility trucks to utility companies, farmers, ranchers, contractors,
> mining firms or a bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics.

Money can, and is being made, selling spartan trucks.  Ford sells an enormous
amount of basic F-150 and 250 to contractors in the US.  A lot of small
contractors also use Toyota pick-ups.

Frank

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:41:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Series I tire/tyre choices

Keith Elliott wrote:

> Hi Everyone...
>     What do all you SI 80" owners use for tires? I have been trying to find 
6.50x16 or 7.00x16 and have had no luck at all.

You can find them but they are expensive.  Try 215/85R16 instead.  Just 
remember to use radial tubes.

Frank

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: US Ports of Entry

At 10:15 PM 9/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>	Does anyone out there know which ports that Land Rover North
>America uses/used to bring in all of it's Defenders, Range Rovers and
>Discoveries to the US?  I would suspect that they use one on the East Coast
>and one on the West coast, but I don't have any concrete information.

 I've seen several shiploads of Disco's unload at Port Hueneme near
 Oxnard, CA.  The same shipper leaves Southampton, UK and lands at
 Newark, NJ and Baltimore, MD.

 If there is only one, I suspect Baltimore is the port being used by
 Land Rover.  For Canada, the same shipper lands in Halifax, NS but
 they also have offices inland and probably shuttle vehicles on to
 smaller vessels.

 Mostly guessing,

-Michael

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:50:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NEW--> Series 1 Mailing List

 Hello everyone,

 The Land Rover Series One Club of the Americas is operating
 a new world wide Series 1 mailing list for owners and
 enthusiasts of 1948-1958 Series 1 Land Rovers.

 To join write to:   majordomo@landrover.net
 with the message:   subscribe
 in the text portion of the message.

 Messages are sent to:  series1@landrover.net

 Kind regards,

-Michael Carradine
 Chairman
 1950 80"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:48:48 -0500
Subject: Re: US Ports of Entry

I believe that the stickers at the Atlanta LR Centre said Brunswick, GA
as port
of entry.    (Hard to read through the drool on the glass!)

Benjamin Smith wrote:

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From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:56:22 -0500
Subject: Re: US Ports of Entry

I believe that the stickers at the Atlanta LR Centre said Brunswick, GA
as port
of entry.    (Hard to read through the drool on the glass!)

Benjamin Smith wrote:

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:04:44 -0700
Subject: FW: LandRover Discovery brake hoses

I received the following message from paragon performance re:
stainless steel hoses. The big question is: are the brake hoses the
same on 95 and 96 vicles? I would think they would be but better to
turn to HAL for a definitive answer.

TIA,

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

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From: SFmms@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:59:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Main shaft nut torque

Jeremy wrote:

<< However, the Superwinch
 overdrive instructions specify something
 like 100 to 120 ft lbs  (don't recall exactly). >>

My Superwinch overdrive manual says 100 ft-lbs in the diagram showing how to
fit it. The tool I had fabricated to remove it is rated for at least 125 ft-
lbs torque. 

Karen Sindir 
'74 SIII 88 "Red Rufy"
'95 Disco "EFE"

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:24:05
Subject: Re: Paul's Paint Color

	Had a 91 Montero lwb, the engine was solid, delivered 17+ mpg with lots 
of
power.  Unfortunately the front rotors warped every 10,000 miles.  The
factory replaced them once after much bitching but that was it.  The dealer
ground them a number of times but told me a the third set of rotors in
60,000 miles was out of my pocket.  Gave up on the beast.  The rotors cost
a fortune.  Cost me more to maintain the Montero than to buy and rebuild
the rover.  A big reason why the Montero with its luxo equipment is history
and the rover keeps plugging along.
	Aloha Peter

> Six months after we bought the Shogun (second hand, from a Mitsubishi 
>Main Dealer) the head gasket blew due, it appears, to abuse by the 
>previous owner. When the motor was stripped they found: cracked heads 
>and corrosion pitting to the block faces. The solution was two new 
>heads and, after a short discussion with me, a Genuine Mitsubishi Short 
>Engine to go with them.
> The bill for parts & labour was £3500 (yes Three Thousand Five Hundred 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> Paul
> Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:49

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:35:00
Subject: Re:  Beginning of the end for LR?

You know you just called everybody on the list "crazed".  I'm sure most of
us are proud to resemble that designation.
>The "bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing fanatics" will buy spartan
>stripped out 90's, but then who else? They are a tiny segment, really, and
>they also have to be a well-off bunch of crazed rock crawling, mud wallowing
>fanatics, since no matter how much the price of a 90 comes down, it will

still
>cost $$$ to modify it to where they are happy. (BTW, 90s in general are
pretty
>basic, the soft tops, that is. All the complications are engine management
>related, and that's easy enough to change. I haven't been to a rally lately
>when a TDI *didn't* turn up.) The average buyer still looks to see how
>comfortable they will be, and how easy it will be to get service. 

You mean that you don't do all your own maintenance, thought they wouldn't
talk to you on this list if you didn't have bloody knuckles and black
fingernails.  Of course I guess we have tolerated you and Luis on this list
even though you have those coily things instead of real he man leaf springs
under the four corners of you boxey rover.  You guys must be special people.

>I know many >on this list don't have LRNA vehicles, but even today trying
to get parts &
>service for a good price at a LRNA dealer is unheard of. And the US just
>doesn't have the network of independents that the UK has, and the
independents
>I've visited charge virtually as much as anyone else. Basically, it looks
>very, very impossible. 
>when a TDI *didn't* turn up.) The average buyer still looks to see how

Probably have a better vehicle creating a coiled tdi 109 than buying a 110.
 At least the trim would be galvanized and you wouldn't be stuck with that
plastic fantastic dash

>Today, I'd rather spend a butt-load of money and have a 109 coiled and tdi'd
>before I bought a soft-shape LR, but that's probably why I subscribe to LRO,
>and not CSO/RRO...
>comfortable they will be, and how easy it will be to get service. 

Probably because you are crazed like the rest of us

>...and I don't know why I just wrote all of the above, because we're all on
>this list for similar reasons, and we all know why. This list ain't no plush
>pub in Mayfair (or Aspen) ;-)
>.02
>--pat.

Aloha Peter

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:42:30
Subject: Re: Jeep 4 cylinder a loser

	Unless they have changed the four cylinder, it is really unsuitable for
off road work.  Had a Cherokee with the four and its cam was set up for the
boulevard, not off road.  It didn't come on the cam until well over 2,000
rpm and had virtually no torque until then.  Had to turn off the air
conditioner to get up my driveway.  Turning the air conditioner on off road
was impossible unless you revved the s**t out of it and slipped the clutch.
 You couldn't hope to rock crawl with it.  Think the straight six would be
mandatory if you wanted it to be useful at all off road.  
Aloha Peter

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:48:00
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR?

	I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the series
list.  Used to think you (Pat and Luis) were decent chaps despite the
aberration of owning coilers.  The thought of waxing has made me nauseous,
recant before Nigel takes up permanent residence in you rovers.
Aloha Peter

>>Pat said  "Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got
to go out and
>wax
>>my defender before the hurricane comes"...
>>Any?>>
>Then Luis said "I already waxed mine. How is the name for that thing...
Turtle-Mud or
>something."

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From: Ketil Oftedahl <ketil.oftedahl@datapoint.no>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:24:13 +0200
Subject: Re: NEW--> Series 1 Mailing List

>  To join write to:   majordomo@landrover.net
>  with the message:   subscribe

... which will just cause a " unknown list '' " message to be returned.
The subscribe msg should probably contain :  subscribe series1

>  in the text portion of the message.

Rgds,
Ketil

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From: Ed Alvarez <alvarez@btnmail.mozcom.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:26:33 +0800
Subject: Re: older LRO's

Hi Tom,

was wondering if i could get some of those mags, specifically the jan. 98
and the nov to dec. 97.  the only thing is i'm in the Philippines but i can
find a way to pay you the $1 plus mailing costs. if possible.

if you can mail them to me, pleas let me know.

thank you

Ed Alvarez
Butuan City 
Philippines.
At 09:25 PM 9/14/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Hi List,
>I was housecleaning, and like most save all my L-R lit/mags.  I have the
>following as duplicates-perhaps someone would like them to fill in your

MIA's.

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From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:00:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

>         I think waxing a rover is grounds for disqualification from the series
> list.  Used to think you (Pat and Luis) were decent chaps despite the
> aberration of owning coilers.  The thought of waxing has made me nauseous,
> recant before Nigel takes up permanent residence in you rovers.
> Aloha Peter
> >>Pat said  "Oh well. Everyone, enjoy their respective vehicles; I've got
> to go out and
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> >>Any?>>
> >Then Luis said "I already waxed mine.

Wax? is that the same stuff I make candles with?

I once washed the Landy because I had run out of paint!!

Mick Forster
1972 109" Safari 2.25 petrol
1963 88" IIA 2.25 petrol
Very sad Metro :-( this was waxed once, now there's too much rust!
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
http://members.aol.com/Tony4star/

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Peter  Howard" <rover109@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:55:56 +1000
Subject: Internet terminology (most likely a dumb question)
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Further to Frank and Adrians posts re newsroom "cablese" , I'm reminded =
of a story about Evelyn Waugh on assignment in Abyssinia for an English =
newspaper early in WWII.
After a week the editor cabled him "Why nonews"
Waugh replied "Nonews goodnews."
Editor cabled "Nonews nojob."
Waugh replied "Upstick job arsewise"

Waugh was a Roving reporter for the paper. Will that do for Rover =
content?

Regards to all,
Peter H.

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