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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 07:29:02 -0700
Subject: Re: We're Pathetic... (where's the filler tubes?)

>get my fuel tank filler hose to fit when
> my PO has cut off the metal filler tube to about 2" long.

;

If you do not come up with a replacment tube, may I suggest the method I 
used to make the filler tube fit when I added a front fuel tank to the 
left side of my car.  It is described in detail in my web site, but 
basically you:

- get a new filler hose,
 
- Cut the new hose in half at the straight section in the middle

- Get a 4 or 6 inch (sorry I forgot which) length of steel tubing from 
you local muffler store.

- Connect it in the middle of the straight section 

- assemble the hose over the tank filler opening and the filler tube 
making adjustments untill you get everything alligned and

- clamp everything in place with six hose clamps.

It works like a champ when plumbing a left front fuel tank and should 
work just as well on a right front tank with a shortened  filler tube.

Take care,

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 07:35:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Turbo

> 	 Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever put a turbo on a 2.25 petrol?
> No I'm not going to, just wondering.
]
I have heard that the three main bearing engine doesn't hold up well to 
the pressures of a Turbo.

The factory didn't put a turbo on the three bearing diesels, but did on 
the 5 bearing diesels.

I would take their cue and get a five bearing 2.25L or newer 2.5L petrol, 
add a 7:1 head then put the turbo on it.

Fave fun speculating

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:39:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Koenig winch

shannon we have complete used braydon and konig 109 winches in stock from
$450.00.
call me at 1 888 880 2600     Ray Wood

Check out the Wise Owl Website

   ^   ^
  (0v0)
 v(     )v
- +    +---------

www.bcoffroad/wiseowl

----------

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:41:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Koenig winch

Shannon we have two in stock from $450 complete.
Ray Wood

Check out the Wise Owl Website

    ^   ^
   (OvO)
  v(      )v
----+  +-------

www.bcoffroad.com/wiseowl
----------

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From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman Wing)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Turbo

>I do not know the cam specs for a 2.25, but if you wanted to turbo your motor,
>it would be a good idea to lessen the overlap between intake and exhaust
>valves. If they are open together for a long time (say, to help with
>scavenging in a NA motor), the turbo will just blow the mixture right through
>the chamber and into the exhaust, and the pressurization effect will be
>reduced, as will the efficiency of the system.

Actually, the stock valve overlap is extremely low and would probably be
ideal for turbocharging. I am working on a turbo FI 2.25, I have gotten the
turbo and designed the FI, but unfortunately it has been relegated to the
bottom of the list for the time being. Watch this space next spring!

Braman
66 IIA 88"

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:49:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Synchro springs

Adrian the most likely cause of dropping out of fourth is that the bushing
on the mainshaft under the 3rd gear is broken.
We overhaul 3 or 4 transmissions a month and 80% of them have the bush
broken. Only about 5% have broken springs. Ray Wood.
Vancouver

----------

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From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:57:29 -0700
Subject: Re:Zenith Carb

From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:16:32 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re:Zenith Carb

>My wife's landy (2.25) has a Zenith carb-36IV. (hate it).  I am unable to
adjust the air/fuel mixture (it stays very rich).
I suspect the float level is wrong. Can anybody please tell me the
correct level for the float.

There is no at-speed mixture adjustment on the Zenith carburetor outside of
making sure the carburetor is fitted with the correct jet(s).  The only
mixture adjustment is the idle screw, which sets the amount of fuel that is
sent to the idle jet.  There is also an idle speed adjustment which is no
more than a stop screw than determines how far the throttle butterfly can
close.

Assuming the carburetor gaskets and O-ring are in good condition, I don't
believe there is anything you can do with the floats to affect your
mixture.  If the float level is too low, you can starve the engine of fuel
under higher throttle loadings.  If the float level is too high, you might
cause fuel to be pulled past the body gasket and down other orrifices in
the carburetor which could cause the engine to run rich.  If the carburetor
has warped, as many Zeniths are prone to do, the fuel being pulled past the
gasket at idle can cause an extremely rich condition that can sometimes
load up the engine to the point where it stalls, but this occurs only at
idle, pointing uphill or on the level.  I have had warped Zeniths in the
past that have caused this problem, but never at speed, only at idle.

One thing to check is the oil level in the air cleaner.  If the oil level
is even the tiniest bit over the level mark, the airflow to the carburetor
will be restricted and your fuel consumption will go up quite dramatically.
I had this happen once and couldn't figure out why after 7 years my Series
III, which I'd bought new in 1973, was suddenly getting horrible mileage.
A call to a friend of mine at the old, original Atlantic British in
California yielded the suggestion to check the oil level in the air
cleaner.  I'd changed the oil in the cleaner recently and the level was
about 1/8 of an inch over the mark.  I poured out enough oil to get the
level back to the mark and my normal mileage returned instantly.  So you
might check your air cleaner.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:02:03
Subject: Re: The English Channels

The tracks are held in by flat head machine screws.  Pry around in the
gunk/rust in the base to locate.  Not easy to find but you will.  The
problem is getting them out as they are usually well rusted and the slots
close to nonexistent.  I've had good luck getting them out but think I've
been lucky.  Treat the slot area with a rust inhibitor, paint and replace.
You might go through the procedure mentioned by the other poster if you are
in a salt area.  Don't know if all that is worth the trouble for those of
us living in more moderate climates.
Aloha Peter

At 05:14 PM 9/19/98 -0700, you wrote:

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From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:01:42 -0700
Subject: Unreliable (was Engine & Gearbox)

From: Scott Wilson <scott@scratchstudio.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:03:56 +0100
Subject: RE: Engine and gearbox ect...

>Most important are the friends... The few that I have all think I'm
crazy for getting such an 'unreliable' car, so I just read my new
copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintnance for my moral
support...

Most people in the US who have Series Land Rovers are not the original
owners, so like all used-car buyers, they have to suffer the problems
caused by neglect or improper care on the part of the previous owners.
Many US Series owners don't really understand the operating and maintenance
philosophies behind their vehicles, and as a result, experience a lot of
problems.  The most common cause of reliability problems is trying to drive
a Series Land Rover like a modern vehicle at today's speeds (or as close as
they can get), using today's standards to determine lubricant change and
engine adjustment intervals, and making the assumption that Series parts
should last as long as modern parts.  It's no wonder so many people
consider old Land Rovers unreliable.

I bought my Series III new in 1973 and still drive it, and I can attest to
the fact that properly maintained and driven, a Series Land Rover can be an
incredibly reliable machine.  For the first ten years of its life, my
Series III was my only means of transportation.  It was driven every single
day, to and from work, on weekend trips, and on long trips to the Yukon,
British Columbia, and Montana.  In 25 years it has never quit on the road
and it has never failed to start except when the battery was shot, at which
times I was able to start it with no problems using the hand crank.  I
don't pretend that the vehicle gave me this level of reliability without
cost and effort: it takes a LOT of scheduled and preventive maintenance to
keep the thing operating properly, and some of the parts wear out much
faster than similar components on today's vehicles.

Other than adding a Fairey Rescue capstan winch, Warn hubs, and an
overdrive the year after I bought it, my Series III is mechanically stock.
I did build and install a new instrument panel when the speedometer broke
in the Yukon in 1977; I replaced the speedo with a tach and a manifold
pressure gauge, and I moved all the switches to the center divider.  I also
added a Smiths voltmeter and a Smiths ammeter to the lower center dash
alongside the Smiths oil pressure gauge.  I relaced the right rear seat
with a full-length box that holds the winch rope, cables, jack, etc.  I ran
a Rochester carburetor from 1978 to 1980 but then went back to the Zenith.
Maintenance and repairs have all been done acccording to the directions in
the owners manual and the factory shop manual.  I haven't used any
"special" lubricants or "owner-recommended" practices, or made any
mechanical modifications.  Everything has been done strictly by the Land
Rover manuals.  The engine was overhauled in 1981 when it burned an exhaust
valve, the transmission was overhauled in 1988 when the joint gaskets
finally disintegrated and it started leaking oil badly at the seams, and
the overdrive was replaced in 1988 after it broke a gear (due to my letting
it run low on oil one too many times).

Of the vehicles I own and drive today: the Series III, a '91 Range Rover, a
BMW 633csi, and a Ford F-250 Supercab pickup, the Series III has been the
most reliable (note that I did NOT say the most maintenance-free).  The
Range Rover, which now has 92,000 miles on it, is a very close second and
has so far been the most maintenance-free.  So while the 3rd or 4th or
10th-hand Series Land Rover you own today may be giving you a lot of
headaches, it's not because the design was faulty from the outset.

Given the era in which it was designed and the state-of-the art for vehicle
and parts construction at the time, a Series Land Rover is a remarkably
reliable machine.  Like the Jaguar E-Type, the Land Rover was designed in
an era of cheap labor.  It didn't matter if the vehicle required a lot of
maintenance to keep it running right because a mechanic's time cost very
little.  So what if you have to remove an E-Type's rear subframe in order
to change the brake calipers. Who cares if the carburetors drift out of
tune every few hundred miles.  It was a great design from a driving point
of view, and you were paying peanuts for the mechanic who needed a week to
fix the thing.  Today, with mechanics getting upwards of $80 an hour at
most luxury car dealers, removing the whole back end of a vehicle to
perform a relatively simple task is nuts.  But it wasn't back in the 1950s
and 60s.

So I take exception to people who call the Series Land Rover "unreliable."
The one you own today may be plenty unreliable, but it had the potential to
be extremely reliable the day it left the factory.  Mine certainly has
been, and I expect there are other people on this list or elsewhere who
have had similar experiences, especially those people who bought their
vehicles new or have owned them for many years, and driven and maintained
them in the mannner the designers intended.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

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From: "Carter, Howard C" <Howard.Carter@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:08:21 -0700
Subject: 88 Range Rover - For Sale -Seattle Area

88 Classic Range Rover
Good Condition, High Miles, Alaskan Blue,
3.5L V8, AT, Very Good Aluminum Body, Very Good Grey Leather Interior,
New Goodrich Tires, New Bilstein Gas Shocks, New Kenwood deck w/10 Disc
CD.
Full Workshop Manuals & other Literature.
Needs minor TLC.  Trade for Toyota T100 Pick-Up,
$9995 obo/trade
Thanks, Howard 425-454-3608

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From: Fred Schwartz <fns@primenet.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:07:19 -0700
Subject: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

>From: Pjmedal@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:48:59 EDT
>To: tompaz@uswest.net, Mike Bosman <mbosman@concentric.net>,
>        Audra Taylor <audra@INTRMTNCIRC.com>,
>        Glen Margetak <margetak@asd.simula.com>,
>        Tom Doolan <doolan@futureone.com>,
>        Eileen & Carl Waldmann <emwf@primenet.com>,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 40 lines)]
>        montypetersen@msn.com, Stacy Kellams <r10721@email.sps.mot.com>,
>        Rick Dawes <ric818@aol.com>,
[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 >        Staci "Ski Club Genius" Sontag 
<sasontag@yahoo.com>,

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:21:10 EDT
Subject: Re:  Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

Damn, those cookies tasted *awful*! Terrible recipe. Next time 'round, add a
teaspoon of 90wt Gear Lube and a touch of Waxoyl to the dough. 

Ack. gag. retch.

--pat.

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

Urban legend Crap....Don't be a twit and fwd this trash to anyone that you
don't want to piss off.  Hey, di you hear the one about the guy who woke up
in the tub...
>>From: Pjmedal@aol.com
>>VISA statement from Neiman-Marcus and it was $285.00.  I looked again and I
>>remembered I had only spent $9.95 for two salad.."Cookie Recipe>>$250.00."

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:42:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

    I last saw this several years ago. It looks like it has become
internet folklore. I wonder if some of these stories will still be
circulating in 20 years. Anyway, let's not waste everyone's time in the
future with this or other folklore.

Regards,
David Cockey

>Enjoy cooking the most expensive cookie in the world FREE !! THIS IS

> >TRUE----PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT AND PLEASE SEND IT TO EVERY
> PERSON

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:53:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Catskills? Connecticuit? WHERE can I take this thing?

Wilson, Scott wrote:

> Okay... I NEED DIRT!!! I got my cool GPS thing and the delorme
> Topo USA thing, and found some "Jeep Trails" in the catskills...
> Got there, and couldn't find them - only hiking trails with big
> "No motor vehicles beyond this point" signs...

"jeep trails" on US topo maps generally mean pathways wider than a
hiking trail, but not up to normal road standards. Nothing should be
implied about vehicular access, by Jeeps or any other vehicles. In the
eastern US, most state and federal land is not open to motor vehicles
unless specifically allowed. Check with the administrative agency first.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:01:27 -0600
Subject: Re: Engine removal QuestionBritish Bulldog Comments

Nate asked about clearances when removing the engine with wings in
place:

Not a problem. The tight spots are fore and aft. Remove the radiator and
fan, unbolt the engine at the flywheel housing,pull straight up and just
watch the wiring at the back. It would be easier to remove the
breakfast, this way you don't have to lift engine as high.

BTDT last year when I changed the clutch on the "Aardvark" (new name for
my truck-somebody else I had noticed had named there's :The Beast"

As to British Bulldog--Seth and Paul are good people. Have always
treated be more than fair. If there is a screw up in the order (no
matter who's fault) they will make it good. Case in point, back in April
they has Weber carbs on sale. Bought one and found out there wasn't an
adapter with it (had a Solex on Aardvark) Called them up, they found one
and sent it to me for $20-other places would have gotten $70+ for it.
Back in June I busted a Shock and axle center pin at the Steamboat
Rally-Ordered new parts first part of July. There was a mix up somewhere
-no parts Called up and got ahold of Seth on thursday the 3rd-had a
package-on monday. I had ordered the parts COD-they came prepay, because
I assume of the mix-up. Yes, I am very satisfied with British Bulldog
and Aardvark wears there decal proudly!!!

Art
1960 SII, 88" RHD "Aardvark"
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6339/

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:06:03 -0600
Subject: RE: Rovers north site

Peter-

Yep me too, since Thursday. Glad it wasn't only me!!!

ThankS for the list or I would be in Rover withdrawal by now!!

Art
1960 SII, 88", RHD,"Aardvark"

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From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:11:49 -0600
Subject: Rovers and Birthdays

Jeeze!!

Got a bunch of youngsters here-I'm 8 years OLDER than Aardvark!!! I'm a
52 Vintage-she's a 60!!

Art
1960 SII, 88", RHD "Aardvark"

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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:47:54 EDT
Subject: Beginning of the end for LR?

Frank Elson Wrote: "The Defender is not a Sport Ute"

Frank identified the key concept:  The Defender is a utility machine.

The quality of utility makes these Land Rovers different from SUVs.  No
matter how plushed up they are for the NA market, with V8 engines, automatic
transmissions, air conditioning, CD players, leather upholstery, espresso
makers and power toilet paper dispensers, Defenders are still utility
machines.

Very few true utility machines remain available in the US market.  They are
a dying breed.  Even the new, un-optioned, trucks are plush.  They are not
intended to be serviced by the owners.  Emission and safety requirements
have made this almost impossible.

Among the qualities of the old series machines which appeal strongly 
are their simplicity and utility.  As these qualities are simply not now
available in new machines in this market, I will continue to repair,
maintain and enjoy my antique Land Rover.

Utility is Good!

Paul Donohue
Denver
1965 Land Rover Dormobile "Lurch"
1978 Ford 100 6 cylinder 3 speed "Bertha"

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:06:02 EDT
Subject: Experiment w/ Frank

Frank and I are attempting to duplicate his message problems so feel free to
ignore this message.

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new defender - one bit at a time

In a message dated 19/09/98 01:08:28 BST, you write:

 Government (or politicians) talk a lot about the need to keep a car in
 tip-top condition - all in the name of safety. What they really want -
 and what most european countries policy actually inspires - is cars that
 quickly fall apart when they get to 4-5 years old.
 
 This suits the manufacturers - as they sell more cars. The avaerage
 lifetime of a family saloon is shorter today (I would postulate) than it
 was 25 years ago. Despite the radical improvements in manufacturing
 technology, materials, and service - the route from the showroom to the
 crusher is shorter.
 
 This suits government as well - every time a car is imported - tax! A
 small family saloon which costs the dealer here in Denmark around 60,000
 kr - costs the buyer, once VAT and import tax is added nearly 200,000
  >>
you are 1000% correct - including what I haven't highlighted.
The long ans short of it is that, while Governments spout off about the
environment, they actually need us to buy lots of new cars - for the taxes
they generate, including the income taxes paid by car workers, just like they
cannot afford for us to stop smoking (ha! I got 'em there!!)

I've done a few columns based on the environmental good that comes from owning
and maintaining old cars.

To really fight pollution old cars/scrap yards/and backstreet garages should
be encouraged and new cars, complete with large electrically lit main dealer
showrooms, should be discouraged.

But wont ever happen...

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:32 EDT
Subject: Re: The English Channels

In a message dated 19/09/98 01:14:11 BST, you write:

 I need to replace the channels, tracks, grooves in the door tops, in which
 the glass slides.  It looks a devilish task.  Any words of wisdom ( on this
 subject)? >>
Patience, patience - and a bit more patience!!

The top rail often comes out easy(ish) because the tiny little screws stay
dryer.
The sides are so/so but the bottoms are usualy rusted.
You need a very small screwdriver, in the UK we use the largest size Jewellers
screwdriver.
Scrape it, gently, along the channel until you find the screw, then try and
undo it.....
Once you've got one out, go and vbuy some like it from a local hardware shop.
They are often reusable, but often not.

Don'y try to reuse the same holes, just drill new.

Cut the new channel with a small hacksaw (called Junior in the UK) and take
care.

it's one of those easy jobs that becomes hard because of the smallness of
everything.

good luck.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new defender - one bit at a time

In a message dated 19/09/98 01:08:28 BST, you write:

 Government (or politicians) talk a lot about the need to keep a car in
 tip-top condition - all in the name of safety. What they really want -
 and what most european countries policy actually inspires - is cars that
 quickly fall apart when they get to 4-5 years old.
 
 This suits the manufacturers - as they sell more cars. The avaerage
 lifetime of a family saloon is shorter today (I would postulate) than it
 was 25 years ago. Despite the radical improvements in manufacturing
 technology, materials, and service - the route from the showroom to the
 crusher is shorter.
 
 This suits government as well - every time a car is imported - tax! A
 small family saloon which costs the dealer here in Denmark around 60,000
 kr - costs the buyer, once VAT and import tax is added nearly 200,000
  >>
you are 1000% correct - including what I haven't highlighted.
The long ans short of it is that, while Governments spout off about the
environment, they actually need us to buy lots of new cars - for the taxes
they generate, including the income taxes paid by car workers, just like they
cannot afford for us to stop smoking (ha! I got 'em there!!)

I've done a few columns based on the environmental good that comes from owning
and maintaining old cars.

To really fight pollution old cars/scrap yards/and backstreet garages should
be encouraged and new cars, complete with large electrically lit main dealer
showrooms, should be discouraged.

But wont ever happen...

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:38 EDT
Subject: Re: New Tires (!) (?)

In a message dated 19/09/98 01:36:37 BST, you write:

<< pressure stated on the tire is the Max Safe pressure. It is Not a
 recommended pressure for use. If you are not comfortable at 35psi put
 in  a couple of lbs at a time until you get there. Quite frankly the
 idea of driving around in a Land Rover on tires as high as 50psi scares
 me. >>
frightens the bloody life out of me as well.
John's right, that's a MAX.
So put 50 in and go for a drive on a hot highway...... tyres can increase
pressure due to heat by up to 8 lbs..... BANG....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:47 EDT
Subject: Re: Gas Tank sealant

In a message dated 19/09/98 06:12:22 BST, you write:

<< I happen to have a can of POR15 paint.
 They say it won't dissolve in solvents once it is dry, seals rust, etc.
 etc. Could I use this, or would that be a no-no?
  >>
I have heard it recommended here in the UK but have no experience of it
myself.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:40 EDT
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

In a message dated 19/09/98 02:12:51 BST, you write:

 GM is the largest car/truck company in the world. My recollection is
 that Ford is the second largest and Toyota third. I think Chrysler
 builds more vehicles than Daimler-Benz, but DB is the larger company
 when non-automotive business is included. >>
A report of a speech given by the boss of Volkswagen last year said that he
intended to make the company the biggest in the world over the next ten years.
They've bought Rolls Royce and have been reported as sniffing after BMW for a
while but, also reportedly, there is "bad blood" between the two companies's
management who, of course, cross paths (and swords?) frequently.
Hence the buying of the Rols Royce company by VW and the name by BMW.......

LR content: I've just (30 mins ago) bought a Ser3 for my son. 

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:45 EDT
Subject: Re: The Marlboro Trophy

In a message dated 19/09/98 02:13:09 BST, you write:

<< <Today is the test of man and Rover.  20  miles over state forest land to
     I made it!   Hell, a freelander could have made it. (No, I've never
driven
 one, but I don't have to drink piss to know it's salty.)  Maybe I'll give it
a
 go in the snow melt season.  The only trouble was the narrowness of the track
 in some spots.
  >>
yeah, but if the ATV took seven hours how did the Land Rover compete?

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:11:46 EDT
Subject: Re: We're Pathetic... (where's the filler tubes?)

In a message dated 19/09/98 02:49:44 BST, you write:

<< Anyone have any spares? >>
yup, but I can't throw it that far :-(>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:20:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new defender - one bit at a time

In a message dated 9/19/98 1:14:25 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Frankelson@aol.com writes:

<< I've done a few columns based on the environmental good that comes from
owning
 and maintaining old cars.
 
 To really fight pollution old cars/scrap yards/and backstreet garages should
 be encouraged and new cars, complete with large electrically lit main dealer
 showrooms, should be discouraged. >>

It's like the argument that cloth diapers are better for the environment that
disposables.  When you account for the energy, water, detergint and heat
needed to clean 'em, it's nearly a mute point.  

Same point for manufacturing new cars.  Sure, your little Toyota gets 2
gazillon miles to the gallon.  How many gazillon equivalents does it take to
manfacture one every 3 or 4 years for you to replace and to drive compared to
me and Tigger poking along at 15 MPG year in/year out?  

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:22:35 EDT
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

In a message dated 9/19/98 1:14:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Frankelson@aol.com writes:

<< LR content: I've just (30 mins ago) bought a Ser3 for my son. >>

So, is this disease hereditary or a product of his environment?   ;-)

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:30:37 EDT
Subject:  Re: BMW/who's buying who...

In a message dated 9/19/98 4:14:32 PM, you wrote:

<<A report of a speech given by the boss of Volkswagen last year said that he
intended to make the company the biggest in the world over the next ten years.
They've bought Rolls Royce>>

...and Lamborghini (via their Audi division).

I wonder if we'll see some cross-breeding produce a Rollerghini? (sounds like
a pasta noodle).

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:51:59 +0200
Subject: Giving up...

Thanks frank! And I agree about the smoking too.

I have just tried to quit today from 40/60 a day to 2 - SH*T this is
hard, but with a trip to the US pending in 10 days, I might aw well get
to the bones of the quitting, whilst I still have a chance.

I can't understand the logic of my addiction - I smoke each month nearly
twice what it costs to put my kid though private school.

What's this got to do with the rover? Sod all - except I'd like to live
long enough to see if there are crazies like us restoring discos and
freelanders in 40 years time - I know my Series III's will make it, I
just hope I do. The freeloaders won't - that's for sure!

How much can one eat or drink in a day to stop the urge?

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:53:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 9/19/98 4:22:58 PM, you wrote:

<<It's like the argument that cloth diapers are better for the environment
that
disposables.  When you account for the energy, water, detergint and heat
needed to clean 'em, it's nearly a mute point.  >>

Yeah, but the point is, that the cloth diaper gets used again. It stays in the
home (figuratively) rather than going off to a land-fill. It is a lazy society
that has problems with it, not the concept itself that is problematical. The
diapers I had when I was in them were cotton, and they were used by 2 cousins
before me. Four years after I was born, my sister needed them... and they are
still with an aunt who's kids were born 6 years ago. I'm suggesting she just
hang on to them until *she* needs 'em! 

So, I think with those 10 squares of cloth, a whole bunch of synthetic trash
was kept from being produced, used briefly and discarded. (It will remain as
synthetic trash for a very long time)

<<Same point for manufacturing new cars.  Sure, your little Toyota gets 2
gazillon miles to the gallon.  How many gazillon equivalents does it take to
manfacture one every 3 or 4 years for you to replace and to drive compared to
me and Tigger poking along at 15 MPG year in/year out? >>

I'm lost in the gazillions, but I see Franks point clearly, but there again,
society has moved away from ever accepting the concept of the small
independent "whatever", and sadly, government isn't helping the independents;
whether it is your mainstreet butcher, book seller, vegetable stand or
whatever. How many WalMarts will it take to kill every little store in
America? (I'm sure the concept is spreading in Europe, too, and I know it is
bound to grow elsewhere later)

In Japan, wheDealerships? They are like office buildings with a few cars in
the lobby, and maybe if it a big one, a few more on the floors above it. No
lot with 300 cars in various colors out back. You go in, choose what you want
and it is brought to you that evening at home, or where ever. Some of the
smaller car dealerships are just like one rooom stores, without a single car
in them! You just go pick out what you want. But then again, I think they have
a higher lever of buyer awareness and know what they want, so they don't need
a guy in a cheap suit to sell them Ziebart.

Car dealerships here in Florida are becoming like Walmarts, and society's
propensity towards getting rid of things is why. The glut of Lease-Trade-Ins
is fuelling the 2nd-hand-but-as-if-new car dealerships (they sell, & lease,
2-3-4 year old leased vehicles) and they are *huge*...

I'm glad we on this list have vehicles we *can* keep running, in one form or
another... We have somone on the list who is probably a European Bureaucrat's
worst car owning nightmare: Marin, who bought his S3 *new* in '73, and still
drives it around and maintains it flawlessly... can you imagine what would
happen if the car buying public demanded that from their vehicles? Or if more
people who bought cars new kept them as long as he did?

With that said, I feel there are a few cars that can be bought today, and
still be yours, running in ten to fifteen years. You can count them on a hand
probably, but they have value today, and if maintained "properly" will
continue to have value tomorrow. That's what keeps them around...

.02

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:06:53 EDT
Subject: Re: double trouble

Hi all,

would anyone with the time please post an email poking fun, or even telling me
off, at me for double posting?

I want to package them all up and send to AOL.
Death by E-mail!!

TIA

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Scott Wilson <scott@scratchstudio.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:15:33 +0100
Subject: RE: Buying a new (whatever)

<<When you account for the energy, water, detergint and heat
needed to clean 'em, it's nearly a mute point.  >>

Not to mention moot too.

=:)

Scott

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:07:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

In a message dated 19/09/98 18:37:17 BST, you write:

 Urban legend Crap....Don't be a twit and fwd this trash to anyone that you
 don't want to piss off.  Hey, di you hear the one about the guy who woke up
 in the tub... >>
Russ,
elucidate please, is this a come on??

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:06:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Unreliable (was Engine & Gearbox)

In a message dated 19/09/98 18:04:23 BST, you write:

 So I take exception to people who call the Series Land Rover "unreliable."
 The one you own today may be plenty unreliable, but it had the potential to
 be extremely reliable the day it left the factory.  Mine certainly has
 been, and I expect there are other people on this list or elsewhere who
 have had similar experiences, especially those people who bought their
 vehicles new or have owned them for many years, and driven and maintained
 them in the mannner the designers intended. >>

well said that man.

I have never owned a Land Rover less than ten years old. I get it in as good a
condition as I can tell and then I systematically work my way through checking
and replacing as necessary - whilst maintaining regular maintenance schedules
at the same time.
I reckon about two years of ownership before I have it right but then it is
RIGHT.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:24:33 EDT
Subject: Help with CB radios

I think I have enough saved up to get a CB radio (so that for once I will know
why everyone is turning left...).

I've looked at a few online, but I don't know enough about them to make a good
decision as to what's good and what's not.

I will be visiting a shop, but I thought I'd get a few opinions.

Most of the ones I've seen (on the web) look like they were pulled out of a
'68 Dodge Dart (Anyone missing their CB from the Dart? It is *for sale* on the
internet!) What I mean is, most everything else electronic on the planet, save
for McIntosh amps, has updated their product design. CBs don't seem to have
done so. Is it because they have a captive audience, or are *all* their models
made for the "retro" trend? Does anyone have a CB radio that looks and
operates vaguely like the modern aftermarket radios in vehicles these days? I
guess if I drove generic american cars, I wouldn't mind having what's offered
in the car, but I'm not. Ack.

I've bought other types of radios recently(ssb, vhf, etc.) and these have all
been updated, made easier to use, and come with amenities like controls on the
mike so you can conceal the actual radio (say, in a seat box) and still
control it. 

Any ideas, comments, etceteras?

I won't even go into antenna mount locations. That's like FWH's or
Oil/Grease...

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:34:10 +0200
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

Recylcling or replacing is not just a question of economy - it's a
question of standpoint.

Remember a few years ago when Shell wanted to dump Brent Spar in the
sea? It may be that the math says that dumping is the least
environmentaly unfriendly solution, and it may be, that given the
energy, workplace danger, and expense of disposing of Brent Spar by
other means that the math was right - dumping it was the best "idea"
from an environmental viewpoint.

But I would disagree. Because dumping the few things where "it's the
best way" would soon lead to popular accept of this method of disposal -
the "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" theory would take over, and before we
knew it, we would actually believe that "becasue it was right for Brent
Spar" it is per se the right way for everything.

It's a question of common sense - if the wast produce of everthing we
produced and discarded were pile up in our back yard (my wife say mine
are:-)) then we'd realise just how much we consume and throw away.

That is the problem which faces the indigenous people of remote areas
such as the Arctic - when they import a car, it stays there for 80 years
- because it won't rust, it just stays there, decades after it stops
working.

But in the US and Europe we are protected from such visions, we turn on
the light, and pollution somewhere else gives us power here, we get in
the car, and drive on the non-renewable resourcers of a country
thousands of miles away. We eat meat and corn, but never see the farm,
the animals, and the way they live and die, we consume and produce, but
the consequences are nearly always remote from us.

I don not advocate that we all crawl back into the cave or ride bicycles
and live on brown rise - but i do think that we can make choices - like
if we have to produce something, we demonstrate our respect for
consumption by maintaining that thing - repairing it, and using it. Even
when a new one would be "better" for the environment - becuase by living
in this way, we teach our children to respect what they have, to use
these things wisely, and to think before discarding them.

This approach to life has its parallels in the non-material sphere of
existence. Ideas and visions should also be respected, cherished, and
understood, before discarding them - to be replaced by the next "flavour
of the month" - rovering is not just about preserving the chassis - it
is just as much about preserving the idea - the approach to life.

Maybe this is too much Zen for this newsgroup, maybe this is the sort of
standpoint which I should "leave outside the pub" - but I think it's
important.

:-)

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:34:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 9/19/98 2:12:21 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
scott@scratchstudio.com writes:

<< Not to mention moot too. >>

I'll learn to type one of these days....   

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:41:31 EDT
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

In a message dated 19/09/98 21:25:01 BST, you write:

<< So, is this disease hereditary or a product of his environment?   ;-) >>
bit of both, of course I really put it down to the fact that he's an erudite,
intelligent and well-educated young man.

and, as he didn't know I was getting it you should just have SEEN his face!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:41:31 EDT
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

In a message dated 19/09/98 21:25:01 BST, you write:

<< So, is this disease hereditary or a product of his environment?   ;-) >>
bit of both, of course I really put it down to the fact that he's an erudite,
intelligent and well-educated young man.

and, as he didn't know I was getting it you should just have SEEN his face!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:41:45 EDT
Subject: Re: Giving up...

In a message dated 19/09/98 21:54:55 BST, you write:

 I have just tried to quit today from 40/60 a day to 2 - SH*T this is
 hard, 
 How much can one eat or drink in a day to stop the urge?
  >>
Adrian,
giving up smoking - and eating healthily - is dead easy.
all you need to do is suffer your third heart attack.
works for me :-)>
Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:43:54 EDT
Subject: Hurricane Georges

 I was just listening to the weather (in my LR; content), and they said a big
ol' hurricane is headed to the Leeward Islands, and St.Lucia is one of them...
(What's this got to do with the list? more than Bill Clinton...)

That's where list member Allan Smith is. 

Allan, I hope your 90 (more content) is on higher ground...

--pat.

ps: Who names these things, anyway? Why don't we ever get a Hurricane Raheem
or Tito, or a Hurricane Lakeesha or LaKwanda? One would have thought the NAACP
would have complained in the name of equality... Oh well, maybe that's why
Louisiana got Hurricane "Earl" a few weeks back. Just curious, once again.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:50:37 +0200
Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges

I'm just waiting or Hurricane Monica to hit the USA? Or maybe hurricane
hiliary?

Now that the Oval Office has been renamed the Oral Office?

Adrian Redmond

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:00:45 EDT
Subject: Re:  Frank's Son's SIII

In a message dated 9/19/98 5:51:01 PM, you wrote:

<<and, as he didn't know I was getting it you should just have SEEN his
face!!>>

Will we be seeing it in one form or another in the magazine? Like you said, in
used vehicles there's usually some sorting to do... Oh yeah, is the bumper
*welded on*? ;-)

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:03:46 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 9/19/98 5:54:05 PM, you wrote:

<<That is the problem which faces the indigenous people of remote areas
such as the Arctic - when they import a car, it stays there for 80 years
- because it won't rust, it just stays there, decades after it stops
working.>>

Yeah, but they can at least drag it next to their seal-skin tent add a tarp to
connect it and turn it into a breakfast porch... ;-) maybe the trunk can
become a moose-proof larder?

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Scott Wilson <scott@scratchstudio.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:42:05 +0100
Subject: RE: Help with CB radios

> I think I have enough saved up to get a CB radio (so that for once I will know
> why everyone is turning left...).

I was thinking of getting a handheld one... from what I remember, these
look an awful lot like a handheld two-meter... I need something 
portable like that so that I don't have to leave aything in the truck.

I finally got some stuff stolen out of my truck last night. I leave
a big rubbermaid box in the back that carries some spare
hoses, a belt, oil, etc... I think they managed to run off with a
gallon of gas that had bits of silicone floating in it... four quarts
of 20w50, and a gallon of water in an antifreeze jug... left every
spare that I had, and most anything else that was worth anything.

-Scott
 '73 SIII 88"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:59:07 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: Help with CB radios

In a message dated 9/19/98 6:43:25 PM, you wrote:

<<I finally got some stuff stolen out of my truck last night. I leave
a big rubbermaid box in the back that carries some spare
hoses, a belt, oil, etc... I think they managed to run off with a
gallon of gas that had bits of silicone floating in it... four quarts
of 20w50, and a gallon of water in an antifreeze jug...>>

Maybe they just ran out of gas, and figured they'd top up the oil while they
were at it.

Similar thing happened to a neighbor down the street. But his story was worth
it due to the funny ending (for us)...

A neighbor had a case of "TURBO OIL", which is meant for turbine engines only.
It is about the same viscosity as water, and he left a spare case that "fell
off a USAF base" in the back of his truck. We waited, and we waited. Finally,
it was stolen! We had an idea who took it, but we weren't sure, and had no
proof. We thought it was a neighbor's son. He was perpetually tinkering with a
89/90 Nissan 300Z-thingy, and we thought he may have seen the "Turbo Oil"...

Sure enough, about a week later we drive by their block and he is changing the
oil, and we spy a can of it on the sidewalk. It is all we can do not to laugh.

His car went about half a mile and died. To this day, he doesn't know why his
motor blew up, and we won't tell him. We're going to wait about half a year
and then put out more "bait"...

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:06:11 EDT
Subject: RE: Help with CB radios

In a message dated 9/19/98 6:43:25 PM, Scott replied to:

<<> I think I have enough saved up to get a CB radio (so that for once I will
know
> why everyone is turning left...).>>

<<I was thinking of getting a handheld one... from what I remember, these
look an awful lot like a handheld two-meter... I need something 
portable like that so that I don't have to leave aything in the truck.>>

I'm searching for a modern unit similar to marine VHF's that have controls on
the mic, so you can mount the transciever in a seatbox or a Tuffy (both
locked) and just have the mic attached with a through-bulkhead fitting (not
the rover's bulkhead, but a figurative term for the fitting), that way, the
box part isn't visible, and I can use the thing just controlling it from the
mic. I can then disconnect the mic and lock it away and not have a radio
screwed under the dash.

I may have a lead. Someone e-mailed me a note to look into a Cobra 75 ST... I
will try to find a picture of it somewhere.

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:08:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

>In a message dated 19/09/98 18:37:17 BST, you write:
> Urban legend Crap....Don't be a twit and fwd this trash to anyone that you
> don't want to piss off.  Hey, di you hear the one about the guy who woke up
> in the tub... >>
>Russ,
>elucidate please, is this a come on??

I think that there is a Web site that lists a good number of the "Urban
Legends" that are out there.  THe cookies story, the exploding toilet, the
kidney snatchers..etc.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:09:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Help with CB radios

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:

:Most of the ones I've seen (on the web) look like they were pulled out of a
:'68 Dodge Dart (Anyone missing their CB from the Dart? It is *for sale* on the
:internet!) What I mean is, most everything else electronic on the planet, save
:for McIntosh amps, has updated their product design. CBs don't seem to have
:done so. Is it because they have a captive audience, or are *all* their models

Part of the issue is that CB manufactures don't want to update to much,
because if they did, it gets too hard to make (illegal) modifications.
Uniden makes some more modern stuff.  There are some head controled stuff
out there too, but I cna't think of what it might be.  

David

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 98 16:21:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

>  The Defender is a utility machine.
>Very few true utility machines remain available in the US market.  
> They are a dying breed. 
'
Umm. New Defenders are not available in the United States market.  In 
that respect you can consider them a vanished breed.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:53:20 -0400
Subject: Re: I think Frank's in overrun...

<< I went to see the consultant and the news was not as good as I was 
expecting....... >>

 Sorry to hear that Frank.
 
 All the best

 Paul

 Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:42

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:53:16 -0400
Subject: Re: End of the beginning of the end for

<< famous english cigar smoking brick-layer >>

 English father and American mother... was he in fact Anglo-American 
(or vice versa?)
 
 Paul

 Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:23

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:53:13 -0400
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

<< or all at once?? >>

 Could be...
 
 By the way Frank, have you any idea what the Navy Blue paint on an 
Ex-Coastguard Landy might be called. I think Marine Blue is that 
Greyish Blue (almost an RAF Blue?). Dougal is a Dark Navy with a Yellow 
Roof, just like the Corgi model, but I can`t find any reference to that 
colour in the Parts Catalogue. (He also has a Series 2 type hard top, 
with a tailgate & lift up hatch above).
 
 Paul

 Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:12

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:57:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 19/09/98 22:54:05 BST, you write:

 Maybe this is too much Zen for this newsgroup, maybe this is the sort of
 standpoint which I should "leave outside the pub" - but I think it's
 important.
  >>
I agree that it is important and I think that those of us on the list already
see the point of it - you just wrote it first Adrian. That's one reason why we
drive old cars... for some the other reasons just follow, for others they do
not but they are doing their "bit" whether they know it or not.
To, therefore, tell them what they are doing is to spread the message.

I said in an earlier posting that I have been a member of FoE for more than 30
years. But I do not wear sandals and eat brown rice, I embrace modern
technology where it is necessary - as we all do.

That does not mean that we do not think about the future and the environment
as well. There IS a middle ground, people ARE getting wise to what's going on
around them.

And people who own old Land Rovers HAVE to take the middle ground and HAVE to
be wise to what's going on around them.

The yuppie in his jellymould, with the sunroof cranked open and the stereo
playing Dire Straits doesn't know what mayhem he causes to the people riding
horses up and down our lane. The guy in the old Land Rover, feeling (and
hearing) every bump in the road, slows down or stops and turns his engine off
- hell he's going nowhere very quickly anyhow - and as the horserider passes
he/she nods, smiles down from the horse and says thank you.

The environment is more than just smoke and dirt pollution it's about a social
point of view.

sheesh, this IS getting Zenish, I'm off to bed to dream about the work on the
Ser3 which starts tomorrow.

Some of you know I had some unpleasant news about my health this week - I was
down - but reading the posts (and buying the new motor!!) has cheered me up no
end.

Across the world today I have corresponded with some pleasant people who are
taking care of business, who care about something passionately and who are
thinking human beings.

You know, it is good to be alive!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: IBEdwardp@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:00:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Giving up...

Give it a go, Adrian. I found that after 3-4 days, I didn't really want a
cigarette so badly. I just desperately wanted to kill someone (anyone) for
about the next ten months. Quitting is definitely worth it. Now, only my LR
smokes.

Ed Bailey
66 S2a 88
Somewhere in East Tennessee

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:03:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 9/19/98 5:00:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Frankelson@aol.com writes:

<< You know, it is good to be alive!! >>

I'll second that.  Life is good indeed.  

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

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From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:03:48 -0600
Subject: Re: Giving up...

At 10:51 PM 19/09/98 +0200, Adrian Redmond, wrote

>to the bones of the quitting, whilst I still have a chance.

Just what are you going to do the next time you have to go back to Greenland
where like the Eastern Arctic something like 60 to 70 percent of the total
population smokes?  Jeez, all I have to do is walk into a meeting with those
people and the nicotine level in my blood is right back up to where it was
before I quit (many times).

 

                                                         Rick Grant

Cobra Media Communications, Calgary Canada
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
rgrant@cadvision.com

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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:18:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Help with CB radios

SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:

> I may have a lead. Someone e-mailed me a note to look into a Cobra 75 ST... I
> will try to find a picture of it somewhere.
> --pat.

A quick search on my part came up with
this:http://www.mastercommunications.com/cobra.htm

Nice Pic of the forementioned article at the bottom of the webpage
......they want 129USD for one.

Mike

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:11:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Frank's Son's SIII

In a message dated 19/09/98 23:08:58 BST, you write:

 Will we be seeing it in one form or another in the magazine? Like you said,
in
 used vehicles there's usually some sorting to do... Oh yeah, is the bumper
 *welded on*? ;-)
  >>
it'll be there, probably in more than one form AND another :-)>
nope, not welded 

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:11:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Frank's Son's SIII

In a message dated 19/09/98 23:08:58 BST, you write:

 Will we be seeing it in one form or another in the magazine? Like you said,
in
 used vehicles there's usually some sorting to do... Oh yeah, is the bumper
 *welded on*? ;-)
  >>
it'll be there, probably in more than one form AND another :-)>
nope, not welded 

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:20:45 EDT
Subject: Re:  Paul's Paint Color

In a message dated 9/19/98 8:07:23 PM, you wrote:

<<By the way Frank, have you any idea what the Navy Blue paint on an 
Ex-Coastguard Landy might be called. I think Marine Blue is that 
Greyish Blue (almost an RAF Blue?). Dougal is a Dark Navy with a Yellow 
Roof, just like the Corgi model, but I can`t find any reference to that 
colour in the Parts Catalogue. (He also has a Series 2 type hard top, 
with a tailgate & lift up hatch above).>>

The blue is *Corgi Dark Navy*. The yellow is *Corgi Yellow*.

Both paints aare available at hobby shops in 2ounce containers...

Good luck, hope you get enough bottles...  ;-)

--pat.

I s'pose Land Rover (the Factory) could guide you, as they probably painted
them separately from the civvie models... see what they have to say.

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:22:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Giving up...

believe it or not Rick, the new culture centre in Nuuk, Katuaq, is
completely smoke free. And stayed that way for the entire ICC

But there was a crowd outside - mostly Alaskans and Canadians!

:-)

Adrian Redmond

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From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:33:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

>I think that there is a Web site that lists a good number of the "Urban
>Legends" that are out there.  THe cookies story, the exploding toilet, the

It's at

http://www.urbanlegends.com/

and there are newsgroups too.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:37:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Giving up...

In a message dated 9/19/98 8:30:53 PM, you wrote:

<<believe it or not Rick, the new culture centre in Nuuk, Katuaq, is
completely smoke free. And stayed that way for the entire ICC>>

So, how will they send *smoke signals* to each other??   ;-)

--pat.

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:27:32
Subject: Re: New Tires (!) (?)

	Put 50#'s in and go driving on a dirt road.  After you bounce off the 
roof
a few times you will either get the pressure down to 25-35 lbs or fasten
your seat belt and  continue on with TOO much tire pressure, and we all can
certify you as truly masochistic.  
	Series Rovers do fine with as low as 25#s on the road though 35#s will
give you better gas mileage.  Depends on your driving.  Since I go off road
daily, I like mine on the low side.  Much easier on the old body, that's
mine not the rovers.

At 04:11 PM 9/19/98 EDT, you wrote:

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From: "Rick Debold" <rick_debold@corp.adaptec.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:34:52 -0700
Subject: Re: UBE/medium: RE: Help with CB radios

Try:
http://www.bills2way.com/
that's where I got mine.

SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:

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[spamkill: [Ss][Aa][Ll][Ee][Ss]@ input: %s]	         
"cgisales@crystalgraphics.com" <cgisales@crystalgraphics.com>,
[spamkill: members.tripod\. input: %s]	 
http://members.tripod.com/~thingsihate/freeicq.html

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:01:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges

Hi all - I'm sitting here 60 feet from the sea, 3 feet above sea level,  on
the Atlantic (windward) coast of the island.  The Hurricane is still
heading to the north of our island group, but it is so huge that we'll be
getting some serious seas, wind and rain. As usual, on the eve of a
disaster in the making there is absolutely no wind - the palms outside look
like still photos, and the sea has receded more than I have ever seen it. 

The LR is filled with everything, with extra stashed well back from the
beach. In its first year it helped a lot of vehicles get through Tropical
Storm Debbie. 

Here's hoping LR support isn't needed this time.

Thanks Pat.
Allan

At 17:43 19/09/98 -0400, you wrote:
> I was just listening to the weather (in my LR; content), and they said a big
>ol' hurricane is headed to the Leeward Islands, and St.Lucia is one of

them...
>(What's this got to do with the list? more than Bill Clinton...)
>That's where list member Allan Smith is. 
>Allan, I hope your 90 (more content) is on higher ground...
>--pat.

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute (CANARI)
Vieux Fort, St. Lucia, West Indies. Tel. + 758 454 6060  Fax. + 758 454 5188

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:18:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges

In a message dated 9/19/98 10:09:35 PM, you wrote:

<<As usual, on the eve of a
disaster in the making there is absolutely no wind - the palms outside look
like still photos, and the sea has receded more than I have ever seen it.>>

I know the feeling. It is very eerie (not the lake). 

Keep us posted... hope your island fares well.

--pat.

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From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:38:19 -0600
Subject: Re: Giving up...

At 02:22 AM 20/09/98 +0200, Adrian Redmond, wrote
>believe it or not Rick, the new culture centre in Nuuk, Katuaq, is
>completely smoke free. And stayed that way for the entire ICC

Was at a Nunavut Tunngavik meeting (land claims implementation group) in
Rankin Inlet last year that was smoke free and during the breaks about 90
percent of us would huddle around outside in the howling Keewatin wind for
the dubious pleasure of proving ourselves tobacco addicted idiots.  This
marked yet another falling off the wagon, or to use an Inuktitut term,
falling off the Komotiq, for me.  The Indians may have invented the filthy
habit but the Inuit have refined it.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

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From: Cutler Family <cutler_family@ibm.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:50:39 -0600
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

I believe the combined DaimlerChrysler will be the sixth largest
automobile company in the world.  Ahead of them are GM, Ford, Toyota and
probably Honda and Volkswagen.

Keith Cutler
1960 Series II
Painted the frame today!
The Turner arrived yesterday!
Picked up the parabolics two weeks ago!

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From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:55:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Help with CB radios

Pat,

     I have a Cobra *something* II and people hear me and I hear other people
on it. (Until the other day when I left the sunroof open and it was soaked by
rain!) I am not a CB kind of guy but I know that the Cobra is a good one. $40
at Wall Mart for a cheap one and $60 for the one that has a weather band. 
     I also know you need a good antenna. I recommend the K40 and will have
one until I die. (Even if it is on a wheelchair!) Your CB is looking for (I
think) 109" or 119" of antenna and the K40 is a nice long on that has a whip.
I was listening to camp chatter at Greek Peak when we were on the mountain.
(Yes the whole "contracept" thing, very funny.) Some people don't like the
metal whips and I think it is a good argument in that your antenna will whip
some bystander. 
     Yes it is late and I am rambling. 

Rover on...

Steve

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Giving up...

---Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> wrote:
 I have just tried to quit today from 40/60 a day to 2 - SH*T this is
 hard,
 How much can one eat or drink in a day to stop the urge?
 Adrian Redmond

You never get rid of a bad habit, you just exchange it for another
one. Try to find something you can keep your hands busy with, or
something like gum to chew. Eating too much will just give you another
health problem. 
If you can keep a Series vehicle running, what chance does a little
weed have of beating you. Go out and mud plug or something...;-)
Smitty

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
From: Dale Smith <smithdv1@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

--GElam30092@aol.com wrote:
 In a message dated 9/19/98 5:00:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
 Frankelson@aol.com writes:
 << You know, it is good to be alive!! >>
 I'll second that.  Life is good indeed.  
 Gerry Elam
 PHX AZ

It sure as hell beats whatever comes in second. Is it me or is
everyone on the list very content and zen-ish today. Should we be
expecting a boom in nine months or what?.....;-)
Smitty

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:44:16
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

	It seems only fitting that the car that was tough enough to conquer 
Africa
should be built in Africa.  What would a safari flick be like without a
Land Rover.  I know, it would be a Safari Flick with a Toyota which has
become all too common, unfortunately.
	I don't care where they are built, I'd just like to be able to buy a 
turbo
diesel 90 that's as simple as my 1970 series 88.  No plastic, no electronic
computer, no air conditioning, no stereo, no heater, no mag wheels, not
even a top.  Would want trim and all steel in the car galvanized, however.
Of course I would like to pay considerably less than the $37,000 the
limited edition Beluga bull s*** Defenders go for.  Hell, I'd even agree to
take the truck Knocked Down so I wouldn't even have to embarrass a Range
Rover Dealership when it was delivered.  Unfortunately, Rover North America
has given us, with a series inclination, the finger.
	Guess its going to be smuggle in a ex mod 90 or build a hybrid if I get
the urge to change from leaf to coil springs.
Aloha Peter 

>Among the qualities of the old series machines which appeal strongly 
>are their simplicity and utility.  As these qualities are simply not now
>available in new machines in this market, I will continue to repair,
>maintain and enjoy my antique Land Rover.
>Utility is Good!
>Paul Donohue

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From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:59:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Defending BMW

BRIAN WILLOUGHBY wrote:

> .. While I don't know that we can ever hope for a
> Land-Rover to be as well made as a BMW, one can always hope.  Perhaps if
> they move production of them to Germany...

I remember that back in the '80s many people complained about the poor QC of
BMWs (cars).  I know several BMW die-hards (from the 1600/2002 days) who
switched  from BMWs during that period.  It seems to me (altho I haven't really
paid attention) that BMWs reputation for QC is really a '90s thing.  So there
is still hope for LR.

Incidentally, I think that BMW does design a safe vehicle.  In '83 someone
drove a Nissan 200sx (?) head-on into a new 320i I was driving.  The Beemer was
totalled.  The front crumpled quite nicely.  I managed to walk out.  They had
to use the jaws of life to cut out the person from the Datsun.

Frank

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:27:42
Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges

	Actually its not the USA that is waiting for Hurricane Hillary to hit, 
its
Mr Clinton.  Unless Hillary is a total fluff head, it must not be pleasant
for Bill to be in the same country, let alone 'oral office' with her.

	Now everything that moves is powered by a non renewable resource whose
term of availability is measured in our lifetimes.  Given that, why are
most of the people who are supposedly so environmentally conscious, so
opposed to nuclear energy.  I wasn't around then, but my mother says jolly
old England was a very gray and dirty place when it was powered by
Newcastle's finest.  We are going to have some serious decisions to make in
the not too distant future as to what our air is going to look like and how
our energy is going to be generated.  Right now it looks like nuclear is
going to be the only environmentally friendly source of energy once
petroleum becomes too dear to burn for electricity.  Anyone out there see
another source.  Please no emotion, just the facts.  It seems the anti nuke
people are no intellect, just feelings.

Aloha Peter

>I'm just waiting or Hurricane Monica to hit the USA? Or maybe hurricane
>hiliary?
>Adrian Redmond

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:29:09
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

What is Brent Spar???

>Remember a few years ago when Shell wanted to dump Brent Spar in the
>sea? 

Aloha Peter

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:40:11
Subject: RE: Thieves are stupid!!

	I had a bag containing all my soccer referee gear stolen out of the 
rover.
 Kona is a pretty old fashioned place.  Never had anything stolen before
and have never locked anything up until the theft.  Assumed the bag was
history and it was covered under my car insurance so not a great loss.  
	About six months later, the police call me up and have the bag.  The 
idiot
who stole it drove around all that time with the bag, COMPLEAT WITH MY NAME
TAG, in the back seat of the car.  He'd emptied out most of my gear and was
using it to keep his burglary stuff in.  He'd been stopped on a routine
traffic violation and apparently was suspicious enough to the police that
they asked how come the bag had someone else's name on it.  
	Aloha Peter

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[spamkill: [Ss][Aa][Ll][Ee][Ss]@ input: %s]	         
Bernd.Jonas@munich.netsurf.de, cgisales@crystalgraphics.com,

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:54:01 EDT
Subject: Re: I think Frank's in overrun...

In a message dated 20/09/98 01:06:51 BST, you write:

  Sorry to hear that Frank.
  
  All the best
  >>
thanks Paul.

	blatchwood@btinternet.com (Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger)

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:09:10 EDT
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

Paul,

You may know a friend of mine - Ian Munro. He's in Fleet
Maintenance/Concorde...not a tech, he sits at a computer. (wish I had his
email address handy - I'd be able to tell you exactly where tofind him)

Oh - I've seen what people try to claim as baggage...back when TACA was flying
737's out of here, somebody was taking along a FULL SIZE (American, that is)
REFRIGERATOR! I have no idea how the ramp guys got it through the cargo door,
but it actually went!

That blue paint you're looking for, I believe, is the very same RAF blue: a
friend of mine here in L.A. had a RAF 109 FFR truck that he restored, and it
was painted that color.

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:15:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Giving up...

Adrian,

I have the best way to get you to quit smoking, and that is to tell you about
my friend Heinz...

He lives in Germany, and USED to visit about once a year - sometimes twice. I
haven't heard a peep out of him, for well over a year now, aside from a letter
from his 'now' wife (they were married in December), and both of them were
chain-smokers...

until...

I got word from another friend of mine (a local one), who told me that she had
heard from his wife: aside from her having a baby recently, Heinz HAD HALF OF
ONE LUNG REMOVED!

I haven't been given any details yet, but I can safely say that his smoking
had just a little to do with it, and that he probably doesn't smoke anymore.

Quit: when you do, you'll start eating more. To avoid this, get a bicycle, and
start riding - it'll counteract your increased appetite. 

Charles

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Needless Markup, whoops, I mean Nieman Marcus

In a message dated 20/09/98 00:19:06 BST, you write:

 I think that there is a Web site that lists a good number of the "Urban
 Legends" that are out there.  THe cookies story, the exploding toilet, the
 kidney snatchers..etc.
  >>
gottit from someone else on the list, 
thanks Russ

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 20/09/98 00:37:31 BST, you write:

 Umm. New Defenders are not available in the United States market.  In 
 that respect you can consider them a vanished breed.
  >>

er... you know how you can import a vehicle pre 197something?
can you not import a Defender of the dates the Defender was sold in the
States?

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:13 EDT
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

In a message dated 20/09/98 01:07:23 BST, you write:

<<  have you any idea what the Navy Blue paint on an 
 Ex-Coastguard Landy might be called. >>

Paul,
nope
but I can find out for you..
stay tuned

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?

In a message dated 20/09/98 07:48:06 BST, you write:

<< Guess its going to be smuggle in a ex mod 90 or build a hybrid if I get
 the urge to change from leaf to coil springs. >>

here's a guy who'd help you with the smuggling

currently in the UK we can pick up an early civvy model Ninety cheaper than
the ex-mil, but they are very very tasty, just a body and an engine... what
the hell else do we need??

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:18 EDT
Subject: Re: BMW and the end of LR...

In a message dated 20/09/98 06:52:57 BST, you write:

<< Painted the frame today!
 The Turner arrived yesterday!
 Picked up the parabolics two weeks ago! >>

way to go!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Hurricane Georges

In a message dated 20/09/98 08:29:59 BST, you write:

<<  Anyone out there see
 another source.  Please no emotion, just the facts.  It seems the anti nuke
 people are no intellect, just feelings. >>
water, wind, refuse (trash) burning incinerators with scrubbers in the
chimneys..

for the infernal combustion engine, alcohol derived from sugar beet or almost
any other vegetation, methane gas, bio-diesel derived from waste cooking
oil.....

all these exist and power towns and/or vehicles already

BTW A guy from Br Nuclear Fuels told me it would need a reactor only the size
of a pea to power a Land Rover - but the four foot thick lead shielding could
pose a problem  :-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Help with CB radios

In a message dated 20/09/98 00:12:22 BST, you write:

<< His car went about half a mile and died. To this day, he doesn't know why
his
 motor blew up, and we won't tell him. We're going to wait about half a year
 and then put out more "bait"...
  >>
Pat,
can I use that in my column? I love it!!
suitably altered to protect the... er innocent,  of course...

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Frankelson@aol.com

In a message dated 20/09/98 01:45:22 BST, you write:

<< Does this mean LROI will be saying "Frank Elson is unwell.."
  
  G, D, & R.  :) >>

thanks for the good wishes. I've been off work since April but have been able
to write my column, just not got out and about a lot. Billing was VERY hard
work.........
I meant my other job, editing alocal newspaper

wot's G, D. & R ??

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

In a message dated 20/09/98 07:18:34 BST, you write:

<< It sure as hell beats whatever comes in second.>>
or as I keep boring people with, I don't mind getting old when I think of the
alternative...

<< Is it me or is
 everyone on the list very content and zen-ish today. Should we be
 expecting a boom in nine months or what?.....;-) >>

hmmm, at our ages you'll read about my wife and me in the National
Enquirer.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:43:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Giving up...

In a message dated 20/09/98 01:08:59 BST, you write:

 Give it a go, Adrian. I found that after 3-4 days, I didn't really want a
 cigarette so badly. I just desperately wanted to kill someone (anyone) for
 about the next ten months. Quitting is definitely worth it. Now, only my LR
 smokes. >>

I wanted to live and I wanted to kill somebody BUT I wasn't strong enough!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:20:37 +0200
Subject: Re: Buying a new (whatever)

Brent Spar is an old offshore oil production platform which shell wanted
to dump in the north Atlantic, but which, due to pressure from a lot of
people who boycotted their gas stations in Holland, Belgium and Denmark
will now be scrapped on land, and used to build a harbour defence system
in Norway.

Adrian Redmond

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