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From: david_r._bobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 16:07:40 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks. 

        >The other stock 4wd's that I have both have much lower gearing than my

really? what sort are they? unimogs?
later

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From: david_r._bobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 16:17:52 -0500
Subject: Re: What is a fair price? 

>Right now, I am trying to establish an asking price. The table in the latest 
>LROI suggests Baby is worth £1700, 

yeah but that's in the UK where a prospective buyer has more than a few to 
choose from. Here its worth quite a bit more.

don't know enough about it to really say though.

see ya at penlan
later
dave

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:50:42 EDT
Subject: Re:  Parabolic spring updates??

In a message dated 9/17/98 5:07:35 AM, you wrote:

<<A new guy turned up for one of our club RTV competitions recently with a set
of these fitted to a ser 11. Our scrutineer sent him away with a flea in his
ear to "go join a none ARC club" as the ARC rules state that all suspension
parts should conform to original Land Rover equipment (or words to that
effect).>>

I haven't read the ARC Rulebook.

He may have ground to feel justified in entering and appeal that.

Parabolics were fitted as standard to later Land Rovers built by Santana.

The scrutineer may say "Well, it isn't a Santana"

He's could open a can of worms, in that there are probably people in that line
with a Series II that have RR transmisions, RR axles, or V8's; and none of
them are what they are. I say let him run. It isn't as if he put *coils under
a leafer*...

Does the rule mean that everything has to be Genuine Parts, or just "look
like" they belong on the land rover?

Just Curious...

--pat.

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From: Paul G <pgussack@utk.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:10:48 -0400
Subject: Jim Hall-Wber

Jim 
I'll take any info on jetting, adjusting or exploded views.  I've worked
on mine blind and would love an official type o' guide.  I do well with
a little instruction.  

My fax number is 423-974-8222
Instructional Video
Paul Gussack

Anything would be great.  Just trying to prevent myself from making a
grave error.

Paul G
SIII SWB Grendal

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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thraser@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:19:36 +0100
Subject: Over zealoues revving?

Hi,

Still being a newbie, I am starting to get a bit worried about the white
'smoke' that was pouring out of the exhaust while I was getting tugged
backwards on Sunday. I was revving quite a lot to help the recovery (in
reverse). She continued to smoke for a while, but when we drove it home, my
wife (who drove behind me), said there was no smoke in evidence. She still
does not smoke, and she still runs fine.

Have I burnt up whatever leaked in there.....will something else seize?!
Er.....HELP! Hints?!!! There is still oil in the sump BTW. Oh one thing, she
was fairly low on petrol, and this was the first tank full she'd had from
me, the PO being the MOD and with only 4000 miles on the clock she may have
a coating of &*^&* in the tank? (very very old petrol). Could this be it,
being nose down, (I assume the fuel is taken from the front of the tank?),
wouldn't all the crap get sucked in and burnt?!

Neil

SIII '78 2.25 Petrol LWB Canvas - BNH 449S Salisbury Diff. Zenith Carb -
'The Rancor'

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From: Scott Whitaker <dswhitaker@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:25:22 -0400
Subject: Series III Gearbox

Anyone have any advice on replacing the three springs which locate the
3rd/4th synchro unit in the main gearbox?  My 109 would not allow me to
shift into 3rd or 4th.  I dained the 90W and the broken spring flowed right
out.  I have pulled the seats, floor, and gearbox top and I can see what
needs to be done.  How to do it is not so clear however....  It sure would
be nice to replace these without pulling the box out of the truck!!  Any
suggestions ??

Thanks

Scott

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:46:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Over zealoues revving?

In a message dated 98-09-17 08:21:58 EDT, you write:

<< I am starting to get a bit worried about the white
 'smoke' that was pouring out of the exhaust while I was getting tugged
 backwards on Sunday. I was revving quite a lot to help the recovery >>
   
    Were you stuck in water or soupy mud?  If water got into your tailpipe, it
would turn to steam and look like smoke.  Did you happen to notice if it had
an odor?  If it smelled sweet, it would be cooland leaking into the exhaust
from a broken head or head-gasket.  Check your coolant level and to see if
there's a "slick" on top whick would indicate the oil getting into the coolant
from a broken head or gasket.  
     If you cannot find a problem, don't worry about it.  Infernal combustion
engines sometimes like to lead us on wild goose chases.  Just drive it, baby.

E

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From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:50:10 -0400
Subject: Transmission Mystery

Recently I had an "interesting experience" which seems to involve the
gearbox in my SIIA.  As I was driving, suddenly I began to have trouble
shifting, almost as if the synchromesh had decided to "Just say 'No'."
Then it began to feel as if the brake had been applied, and I was forced to
come to a stop.  I selected first gear and drove the few hundred feet
(fortunately!) to my driveway, where experimentation showed that all gears
were usable.  

Investigation showed that oil level was low in the gearbox and a little
high in the transfer case.  After driving for almost 50 miles the shifting
difficulty, which SEEMS to affect third and fourth, reappeared.  After
stopping and rowing about for a while with the gear selector, everything
seemed in order again, and I was able to proceed.  This has not been
accompanied by any expensive sounding noises.  Any ideas as to what is
going on?

John Karlsson
Hope Valley, RI

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:44:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Engine and gearbox ect...

Re: Engine and tranny rebuild:

Do it.

Unequivocally.

The beauty of this drivetrain package is that any competent machine shop can
deal with it. it requires no special tooling, machinery or aught else - just
plain old commonsense on the part of the machinist.

First off, get your parts from the UK - if you're doing a complete engine and
trans. it will be worth the cost of shipping. An example is British Bulldog
wanting $3.29 for unknown-brand valve springs - I paid 90P each for Genuine LR.

Ditto with valves - a friend of mine needed 6 exhaust valves for a Euro 6 (that
vendors here wanted 80-90 dollars each for aftermarket for) and I found a UK
supplier that got them for him (in aftermarket, admittedly) for L5 each plus the
shipping costs...

The only thing I recommend be sourced here is piston rings - Hastings makes
excerllent ones for the Rover that can be had mailorder for $40... I just bought
a set myself.

I just had a block cleaned up and cam bearings installed by a local shop here.
They honed the bores (which weren't badly worn), cleaned the block thoroughly
and set the new cam bearings for the princely sum of $55....

Reboring is about $7/cylinder around here if you decide to go .020 over or the
like.

Replacing valve guides in a head is about 6-7 a guide for the pressing, then
plan to cut the seats. Replace the valves and springs - they're cheap.

The transmission is much the same - if you can read and follow directions and
have a decent set of tools you can replace the bearings and seals in a
transmission with little effort. Any machine-shop jobs that are needed (pressing
and the like) can ofttimes be farmed out for a few bucks (or none, if you do it
with the shop that you just threw money at fore block work...).

It ain't rocket science, if you'll pardon the phrase, just simple, basic
engineering that responds well to owner maintenance.

Take your time, follow the manual, do it right and you'll have a drivetrain that
purrs like a kitten.

                    ajr

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Robert McCullough" <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:05:28 -0400
Subject: john&sandy-eng.trans repl
	charset="iso-8859-1"

you can bebuild both and be assured that when you are finished that you =
will know much more about your rover than before. whether you should may =
be determined by other factors such as cost, where you are located, when =
you need your rover, how much time you have to put aside for the work. =
if you look some of the ads in lro, there are re-con mod units such as =
at lumsdon landrovers where both trans and engine together cost $1700. =
us plus shipping. usual disclaimers

------=_NextPart_000_00F4_01BDE21A.508A2620
	[ Original post was HTML ]
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From: Markus Korth <mkorth@systline.de>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:06:32 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a Salisbury in a 90 for Luis.

> Ersatz is good, Ersatz is a WWII word which denoted a replacement when the
> Veritas item was unobtainium. 

:-))

You have been watching to many (war) movies - they aren't usefull for
teaching a foreign language...

By the way: Not all Germans are called "Fritz" or "Heinz"...

Ciao
 Markus

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:20:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Transmission Mystery

John,

DUmb question - have you checked/bled your clutch hydraulics?

>From the sound of this I would begin to suspect that the clutch isn't
disengaging completely - things are still spinning under a bit of power and this
makes shifting a bit dodgy...

Might be worth a shot - have a look at the release mechanism at the same time.

                    ajr

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:20:26 +0000
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a Salisbury in a 90 for Luis.

You have been watching to many (war) movies - they aren't usefull for
>teaching a foreign language...
You're dead right there....I remember falling about laughing watching,
I think,The Dirty Dozen on TV.There was some action at a castle,in
which the "hero's" were involved at the rear of the building.Up roars
a lorry and Kubelwagen full of "German" troops.Lieutnant jumps out
and roars "Schnell,schnell! Rown ze backer! Rown ze backer!" So round
the back they went........
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:23:26 EDT
Subject: Re:  Transmission Mystery

In a message dated 9/17/98 8:50:49 AM, you wrote:

<<Investigation showed that oil level was low in the gearbox and a little
high in the transfer case.  After driving for almost 50 miles the shifting
difficulty, which SEEMS to affect third and fourth, reappeared.  After
stopping and rowing about for a while with the gear selector, everything
seemed in order again, and I was able to proceed.  This has not been
accompanied by any expensive sounding noises.  Any ideas as to what is
going on?>>

Maybe your tranny output shaft seal is worn, and oil is transferring from the
gearbox to the transfer case? Enough oil remains in the gearbox to sort-of
lubricate things, but when the gears and synchros get hot, they don't work as
they are supposed to... You are able to select gears while stopped because
there isn't a load on the gears, and with the clutch pressed in, nothing is
spinning around enough for the problems to appear. 

I would monitor your gearbox oil level, and check to make sure both cases'
breathers are clear of obstruction, then see what happens. You could also try
placing the x-fer case in Neutral and run the engine while "driving", granted,
there's no load on the gears, but at least everything is rotating as when on
the road.

--pat.

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From: "Dr. Russ" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:27:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lockers, broken axles, and Nigel's Disease

Aloha Pete wrote:

***
  If you recently purchased your rover, change the axles now.  
You have no idea what SPOT has been done to the truck.  If you rock climb
or other off road ventures where traction can be very good, but not
always, change them regularly.  If you use your vehicle off road but
without a lot of spinning and hook-up of the tires, drive with the sublime
knowledge that Nigel is waiting for you. 
***

sound advice, but methinks the world is safe now (knock on brimabright).
Nige hasn't busted a half shaft in, oh, at least three years (means he 
might be due, I suppose).  Starter motors are his big thing now....ever
since dumping his starter motor shaft's end nut into his bellhousing
at the GP event...and I know he's got a few of you since then.

r"check yours today"d/nige

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:37:45 +0000
Subject: Re:  Transmission Mystery

 but when the gears and synchros get hot, they don't work as
they are supposed to... You are able to select gears while stopped because
there isn't a load on the gears, and with the clutch pressed in, nothing is
>spinning around enough for the problems to appear.
Actually,Pat,I dont think this is what's wrong.My 11A has that "problem",
in fact,when I first got it the 'box was dry,and I ran it that way for
a month.Xfer case was overful,and still is.When the 'box gets a little
short of fat these days,it is *just* detectable,but by no means does
it become unuseable.
On the principle of trying the cheapest option first,make sure that
the bolts/studs/nuts/bits of string that hold the lever tower to the
gearbox casing are tight.If loose,they could cause the lever itself
to shift,so it cant engage the selectors.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:49:15 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re:  Transmission Mystery

In a message dated 9/17/98 9:38:59 AM, you wrote:

<<Xfer case was overful,and still is.>>

Ok, I'll relate a mystery of my own.

My transfer case leaks out of the front output and out of the rear output.

There's 90wt dripping from the bottom of it, so I know it is leaking.

I top it up, to the level of the fill hole, then put the plug in. After
driving around a bit, like a month of local driving, which isn't a lot, I
opened it up to see how much it had dropped while leaking. 90wt came out, like
it was too full!

So I thought my gearbox donated some of its ATF to the x-fer case, but that
wasn't the case.

Maybe some benevolent oiler has been under there in my absence...

--pat.

(yes, the truck was always level when I did this)

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From: Ray_Burton@notes.sabre.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:54:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

And we all thought that we won WW2!!!

I guess the Krauts & Nips have the last laugh!

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:58:23 +0000
Subject: Re:  Re:  Transmission Mystery

So I thought my gearbox donated some of its ATF to the x-fer case, but that
>wasn't the case.
>Maybe some benevolent oiler has been under there in my absence...

Not in the Southern Hemisphere are you?:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:05:58 +0000
Subject: Re: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

>And we all thought that we won WW2!!!

Whoever told you that?John Wayne won WW2....

I can see the day when Solihull will be manufacturing "lifestyle"
equipment.Bicycles,prams,sunglasses,teddy bears wiv funny 'ats on
(Growls with a Bavarian accent),boots,jackets and trucker caps.
No vehicles.These will be bought in from "approved" manufacturers.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 07:22:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Engine and gearbox ect...

>  My old 69 11a is, i fear, in need of a complete engine and 
> gearbox overhaul.  The question is: should I order a complete
> engineand gearbox or rebuild the ol faithful that has been 
;> plugging for 30 years now?  I know that the clutch
;>also needs attention.  Can a person, with the use of local 
;>shops, and "genuine parts" do a top quality job that will 
;> last as long as the original one has?  

;>Any comments will be welcome.

John 
The answer is YES, maybe even a better job if you take the time to 
carefully check everything or have an automotive machine shop do the 
checking for you).  The professional is under pressure to make a profit 
and may possibly cut some corners or reuse some parts that are somewhat 
worn but still within factory tolerances.  You have the freedom to take 
your time to make sure that parts are correct, mating surfaces are flat 
and to replace any part that is not like new.

When I do an engine I do it in partnership with an automotive machine 
shop.  After I disassemble the parts I take a bunch of them to the 
machine shop and let them:

- boil out the block & head to get any scale & build up out of the 
passages
- install new cam bearings
- check the flywheel surface and clean up if necessary
- check & bore the cylinders if necessary
- fit new wrist pins to new forged pistons
- check the crank journals and resurface as necessary
- balance the pistons, rods, crank, flywheel, clutch plate & pulley
- check the block/ head mating surfaces and shave if necessary
- install and ream new rocker arm bushings
- resurface the faces of the rocker arms
- Check the head for cracks and rebuild with all new exhaust valves
- Check the flatness of your intake & exhaust manifold to head mating 
surfaces and shave as needed

Basically if you farm out that work to an automotive machine shop you get 
known good parts back ready for reassembly.

If you are not sure of how to check a cam over for wear you could let 
them do it too.  If you decide to reuse your old cam, and the followers 
are in good condition, make sure the followers go back on the lobes that 
they had been in.

You might consider a 2.5L cam with new followers, a pierce 2 venturi 
intake manifold and Weber 2 venturi carb.

Don't forget to disassemble the oil pump and check for proper clearances. 
 Sometimes, low oil pressure can be due to worn oil pump parts.  If the 
pump is out of spec, an automotive machine shop can usually bring them 
back to factory spec for a lot less than the cost of a new pump.  Be sure 
to put a new 'O' ring on the oil pickup.

New timing gears, timing chain and tensioner will almost certainly be 
needed.  Also, you might go to diesel engine & transmission mounts.  They 
are stronger than the petrol engine mounts.

Use a good assembly lube and frequently turn the crank by hand as you 
reassemble the crank & pistons into the block.  If there is any binding 
disassemble the part you just put on & try it again.

If you don't cut corners, keep it clean, use a good assembly lube, and 
follow the factory workshop manual  there is no reason why you can not 
rebuild an engine better than a company under pressure to turn out 
rebuilt engines as quickly and cheaply as possibly.

Your late IIA '69 gear box is has improvements over earlier series IIA 
transmissions.  If it were me I would go through the existing gear box or 
insist in a box with the same of later suffix letter.  Rebuilding this 
transmission is straight forward if you follow the work shop manual step 
by step.  The hard part will be telling good parts from worn parts.  Such 
things as the surface hardening worn through and worn syncro rings.

After so long in the car, even boxes that seem good can be badly worn.  
When I had my engine rebuilt in the winter of '91-'92 I had Scotty go 
through my perfectly good transmission just for insurance.  As it turns 
out there was a retaining clip that was almost worn through.  If it had 
let go gears would have wondered into places that they shouldn't be.

The engine is also a straight forward rebuild if you follow the workshop 
manual and keep everything very clean.  

If you are experienced wrenching, have a clean work space, can follow the 
stops in the factory workshop manual and some time, you might want to 
have a go at rebuilding them yourself.  If time is an issue or you don't 
trust your ability, go for a quality rebuild.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:23:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Lockers, broken axles, and Nigel's Disease

In a message dated 98-09-17 09:27:04 EDT, you write:

<<  Starter motors are his big thing now....ever
 since dumping his starter motor shaft's end nut into his bellhousing
 at the GP event...and I know he's got a few of you since then. >>

    Happened to me in August.  Horrible noises when keying the starter.
Pulled the starter and found the end-nut had stripped right off the shaft.  I
fished out the spring, but the nut is still in it's hide-out in the bell, I'm
afraid.  Fitted a spare starter and away I went.
     I've been wondering who was responsible. Now I know. Thank you very much.

Enzo

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:29:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Lockers, broken axles, and Nigel's Disease 

Rd/nige wrote:

  Starter motors are his big thing now....ever
  since dumping his starter motor shaft's end nut into his bellhousing
  at the GP event...and I know he's got a few of you since then.

	Bastard.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

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From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:30:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Transmission Mystery

In a message dated 98-09-17 09:50:39 EDT, you write:

<< I top it up, to the level of the fill hole, then put the plug in. After
 driving around a bit, like a month of local driving, which isn't a lot, I
 opened it up to see how much it had dropped while leaking. 90wt came out,
like
 it was too full! >>

  Same thing happened on my Toyota axle cases.  Fill it just right, check it
when warm and out it flows.  Maybe it has to do with the pull of the moon.
Try checking it at the same time of day each time, else gravity will affect
it.  Either that, or perhaps your garage is full of mice which are attracted
to the warmth in your transfer case, then fall into the oil and die.  See how
much oil comes out the fill hole next time you check the level.  If it maches
the displacement of a dead mouse, I think you'll have solved the mystery.

Enzo (Mr Helpful)

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From: Jan Ben <ben@lucent.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:39:03 -0400
Subject: LR halfshafts

I am sure Manuel knows better, but from what I heard, most Series LR in Costa 
Rica were made locally from LR
kits.  Maybe the halfshafts were sourced from a different batch indeed.   Or... 
 maybe it's 'cause every road
in CR (inc. the Panamerican hwy 1) is like a level 3 or more off-road course up 
here in the States :)

FWIW, I never broke a half-shaft on my old 110,  but  it did shear splines off 
the left front outboard end,
and I was barely cruising 35 on a local paved road.  And for the record.. I 
LOVE my LRs regardless.
Jan in NJ, whishing it was CR.

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:43:26 +0000
Subject: Re: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

While we're on the subject.......
The Camel Trophy just has *got* to be renamed.After all,the camel
is big,dirty,noisy,slow,and useful.Just like a Land Rover (even more so
a series Land Rover).But not like a Freeloader.So what do we call it?
Donkey Derby?
Pussy Cat Rally?
Teddy Bears Picnic?
Any suggestions...?

Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:37 -0500
Subject: I'm gonna sound stupid, but...

What the hell's the bellhousing... from the sounds of it,
anything that happens to it or with it is a hassle to fix...

I think I'm doing pretty good so far considering that I knew
nothing about cars about three months ago... The Bellhousing
I haven't been able to figure out what it is, though...

thanks,
Scott  

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:49 -0500
Subject: Another whatis (No LR)

> Bicycles,prams,sunglasses,teddy bears wiv funny 'ats

What's a PRAM? Robyn Hitchcock finds them somewhat humorous,
but he finds everything humorous, and Billy Bragg has a song with a
line somewhere in it about "People ask me When will you grow up to
be a man, But all the girls I loved at school are already pushing prams"

Just always wondered.

 -Scott  

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:04:22 EDT
Subject: For Scott's inquiring mind...

Hi Scott:

Pram:  Baby carriage.  Classically with rubber or leather straps and leaf
springs to give the carriage a degree of suspension not found on many of the
strollers manufactured by the likes of Graco, etc.  They are heavy and
cumbersome but the little ones love them, particularly since they are quite
smooth to ride in over rough terrain.

Bellhousing:  Don't feel bad, I didn't know what it was a year or 2 ago.  It
is the aluminium (in rovers) cast piece which connects the flywheel housing to
the gearbox proper.  The bellhousing has the primary pinion (primary
shaft)running through it and engages the mainshaft.  It also has the front
layshaft bearing in it.  It attaches to the gearbox by 4 big bolts.

Engine-->Flywheel housing (with drainplug at
bottom)-->Bellhousing-->Gearbox-->transfer box

The flywheel housing bolts on the back of the engine and has the flywheel (of
course) and clutch inside.  

Hope this helps

Nate 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:11:35 -0400
Subject: CT whachamacallit...

Re: new name for the Camel Trophy...how 'bout we call it..."A Bunch of 
Nits Driving Silly Little Cars in the Woods For No Apparent Reason 
Trophy"

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:05:43 -0500
Subject: RE: LR halfshafts

>I am sure Manuel knows better, but from what I heard, most Series LR in
Costa Rica were made locally from LR
>kits.  Maybe the halfshafts were sourced from a different batch indeed.
Or...  maybe it's 'cause every road
>in CR (inc. the Panamerican hwy 1) is like a level 3 or more off-road
course up here in the States :)

You have to see the lighter side of it: You dont have to go off-road to do
some off-roading!!!

About the halfshafts: LRs were assambled here, but that ended somewhere
around 1978. And from 73(4) to 78 the kits were not imported from England,
but from Spain, so there are many Santanas around too.
Mine had to be shipped in one piece from Solihull.

>FWIW, I never broke a half-shaft on my old 110,  but  it did shear splines
off the left front outboard end,
>and I was barely cruising 35 on a local paved road.  And for the record.. I
LOVE my LRs regardless.

The breaks I found on the halfshafts (and the welds as well) were not even
near the splines. They were in the middle of the shafts.

>Jan in NJ, whishing it was CR.

You are welcome and cordially invited, whenever you please! :-)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Kerner, Rob" <kerner@vegmail.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:16:13 -0700
Subject: RE: parabolics off-road

Terriann....

I have taken Regent off road a couple of times.  We went on the NCRC Niagra
trip which was some moderate rock crawling and stuff.  They performed
excellent. The articulation was great(I also have military shackles).  I did
notice on one side hill I had a little more lean than others, but it did not
seem tippy.  I also have a nice roll cage just in case.  I plan on making
the November 50th trip for NCRC and maybe the expedition one earlier.  If
you make it, you can watch them perform.

Rob Kerner
Vegetable Crops
UC Davis
kerner@vegmail.ucdavis.edu

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:18:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

>I became even more deeply suspicious when I saw a photo of the
>design "engineer" for the Freeloader..with a *perm*?

No  $h!t!!  What a FREEAK!!

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:23:17 -0400
Subject: RE: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

On Thursday, September 17, 1998 11:43 AM, Mike Rooth 
[SMTP:M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk] wrote:
> While we're on the subject.......
> The Camel Trophy just has *got* to be renamed.After all,the camel
> is big,dirty,noisy,slow,and useful.Just like a Land Rover (even more so
> a series Land Rover).But not like a Freeloader.So what do we call it?

While we are on the subject of the Camel Trophy...

Did this year seem extremely lacking in offroad driving or was it just my 
impression?

Steven

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:24:37 +0000
Subject: Re: Another whatis (No LR)

, But all the girls I loved at school are already pushing prams"

Ah.Sorry Scott.Baby Carriage.Short term for Perambulator.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Dr. Russ" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:33:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lockers, Broken Axles, and Nigel's Disease

'twas written:

***
 Starter motors are his big thing now....ever
 since dumping his starter motor shaft's end nut into his bellhousing
 at the GP event...and I know he's got a few of you since then.

then,

   Happened to me in August.  Horrible noises when keying the
starter.
Pulled the starter and found the end-nut had stripped right off the shaft.
I fished out the spring, but the nut is still in it's hide-out in the
bell, I'm afraid.  Fitted a spare starter and away I went.
     I've been wondering who was responsible. Now I know. Thank you very
much.
***

*precisely* what happend to Nige on August 2 at 11:30 AM (and TeA,
you had your chance to diagnose this hours beforehand).  Also
busted a hole in the bell housing (bits since JB Welded into
place).  Upon rocking the crank back and forth, I could hear the
nut hanging up on the (oversized 9.5") clutch.  As this is an
older SII bellhousing, which appears to be lacking the plug
opposite the clutch cross shaft entry hole, we ended up pulling
the tranny/xfer case back an inch on the spot and fished it out.

sorry mate, and to you, too Ben,
rd/nige

ps Nige gave me ample warning...primary symptom being a hard
"Clack" upon contact of the starter dog with the flywheel instead
of a clean sounding engagement...and this I'd heard and worried
over for quite some time, but better still, a few months before,
the starter itself had come loose and methinks he was just
trying to show me what was wrong...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:35:18 +0000
Subject: RE: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

>Did this year seem extremely lacking in offroad driving or was it just my
>impression?

Well if it was just an impression it was mine as well.Sort of like
the old Monte Carlo rally without civilisation.
Mind you,the back up cars were,I think,still the good old Defender..

Cheers
Mike Rooth

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jpslotus27@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:35:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 98-09-17 11:25:28 EDT, you write:

 While we are on the subject of the Camel Trophy...
 
   Next Years Camel Trophy will be a support race at the European GP, I
believe.  Where better to show off the Freelander's tremendous on-road
ability?

Enzo

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:45:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Engine and gearbox ect...

John this is Ray Wood at Wise Owl Innovation in Vancouver.

It all depends on how much time you have got and what your work space is
like.

The best compromise may be to take the motor and transmission out yourself
but have professionals do some of the more tricky work.

First of all look at the prices of buying reconditioned uniits and factor
in the freight cost.  I am not sure where you are located but here are the
prices we wouild charge for parts.

First the transmission. If you take it out of the truck and separate the
transmission from the transfer case you could send the main gearbox here
(or buy an exchange unit from us) for $680.00.  We go over it completely
and replace all worn or otherwise unservicable parts.  You would then
probably need to replace the seals in the transfer case and E brake shoes
yourself. Parts here cost about $50. You will need a a new clutch disc (a
Borg and Beck one is $69) You may also need the prssure plate ($119).

Alternatively tackle the repair yourself. I can walk you through the
proceedure on the phone. Parts generally cost $400-$500 for the main box
unless it is a basket case.

Motor.  We can sell you a completely rebuilt motor with 8:1 compression,
hardened valves in head for $1299 exchange.  Add $100 if you want the later
cam profile which improves performance.

Or if you prefer to do it yourself we have a parts package for $450.00.00
which includes all the parts you need. A local machine shop can probably do
your machine work and you will save some money. Again call me for some
tips. We rebuild lots of 21/4 motors and have learned what works and what
doesn't.

Most happy to help out please give me a call if you would like to talk
about it.

Check out the Wise Owl Website

	  ^  ^
	 (0 0)
	v(    )v
	--+-+----
www.bcoffroad.com/wiseowl
----------
> From: John & Sandy Cooper <scooper@scooper.seanet.com>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Engine and gearbox ect...
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 8:45 PM
> I`ve been off the list for about a year now and need some advice.  My old

69
> 11a is, i fear, in need of a complete engine and gearbox overhaul.  The
> question is: should I order a complete engineand gearbox or rebuild the
ol
> faithful that has been plugging for 30 years now?  I know that the clutch
> also needs attention.  Can a person, with the use of local shops, and
> "genuine parts" do a top quality job that will last as long as the
original

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Todd_Wilson_at_Rivergate@ccmail.columbia.com (Todd Wilson)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:53:16 -0700
Subject: Re[3]: Beginning of the end for LR??

     So maybe we can help with the agenda for the next trophy.
     
     Day 1
     Identify major parts of the truck, err, car. Winch (that spooly wirey 
     thing that hooks on the front).
     
     Figure out how to load the CD player and program bbc on the stereo.
     
     Find nearest Starbucks and order the most complicated beverage. i.e.. 
     Double half caf. venti mocha frapucino. (no whip)
     
     Locate hotel that will take American Express *and* has a gym on site
     
     Day 2
     Parking at Mall
     
     Locate best deal on adventure outfit at Eddie Bauer or Banana Republic
     
     Drag race Ford Expudition to ...... You guessed it, Starbucks for 
     second round of Barista harassment.
     
     Figure out how to engage 4wd
     
     Figure out how to operate bike/canoe rack
     
     Return to hotel for drinks by pool
     
     Day 3  Orienteering
     
     Engage 4wd on drive to farmers market
     
     Pick up dry cleaning and recycle old cellophane / hangers
     
     .....Starbucks
     
     find dirt road to get truck, err, car muddy (carrying water to create 
     mud is frowned on)
     
     Take out Thai food for dinner
     
     wash and wax car for evening concours competition.
     
     day 4
     rest

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From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 17 Sep 1998 11:36:00 -0400
Subject: Part #666-H2O

>Oh, you mean 45X15 M/H Radials? They are on RoversNorth on-line  catalogue
>part #666-H2O. They sell them around here very cheap (if you want a set let
>me know). I have them already. Thats why I'm breaking axles, the transition
>between sticky magma and slippery water flotation is hell for the
>drivetrain.

Tricky transition?  You didn't install the Mansfield Anti-Roll bars from Rovers
North?  The newer version replaces the sills, unlike the previous that needed 
the early IIA deep sills to hide them.  Call Lanny and get this option.  It will
keep your Land Rover level during the transition between magma and water
and vice versa.  Makes for a much nicer ride.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Slade@dreamlab.cc (Michael Slade)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

yadda.....yadda...yadda.....

>While we are on the subject of the Camel Trophy...
>Did this year seem extremely lacking in offroad driving or was it just my
>impression?

Tom Collins said they didnt use the winches once!

*sigh*

Michael Slade
Portland, Oregon
www.DreamLab.cc

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:09:44 +0200
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

Maybe the Solihull decline is just symbolic of the world in which we
live.

I know Landies have their shortcomings, but they last - what other
marque has lasted so long, served so well, and inspired the ambition of
so many owners?

BMW have just probably cottoned on to the simple fact - if a car lasts
so long, that spares are still on demand after 20-30-40-50 years, and
the drivers are so satisfied - then it limits the market for new cars.

BMW theory is probably the same as the jap-concept - give them something
which will get massive press when it's released - generate sales, give
the customer something which looks great standing in the yard or the
office car park - for the first four years, then - when the payments are
paid up, let it slowly rust, fail and fall apart so that they buy
another one.

despite the cost of genuine spares - manufacturers make their money on
the chassis/coque - not the after sales problems. Therefore shorten the
period... Tough on us?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:12:57 -0300
Subject: Re: Another whatis (No LR)

Wilson, Scott wrote:
> > Bicycles,prams,sunglasses,teddy bears wiv funny 'ats
> What's a PRAM? Robyn Hitchcock finds them somewhat humorous,
> but he finds everything humorous, and Billy Bragg has a song with a
> line somewhere in it about "People ask me When will you grow up to
> be a man, But all the girls I loved at school are already pushing prams"
> Just always wondered.

  pram = perambulator= baby carriage
 which then begs the question was the gent in the song responsible for
said pram contents?
    John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:12:09 +0200
Subject: Re: Another whatis (No LR)

PeRAMbulator - baby carriage

I don't know why - but that's what they call a barge in danish

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:16:31 -0300
Subject: Re: I'm gonna sound stupid, but...

Wilson, Scott wrote:
> What the hell's the bellhousing... from the sounds of it,
> anything that happens to it or with it is a hassle to fix...

 It is the bell shaped housing that is between the engine block and the
transmission housing. it contains the flywheel and clutch/torque
converter. Some manufacturers make this an integral part of the
transmission housing.
  John and Muddy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:22:19 -0300
Subject: Re: CT whachamacallit...

Adams, Bill wrote:
> Re: new name for the Camel Trophy...how 'bout we call it..."A Bunch of
> Nits Driving Silly Little Cars in the Woods For No Apparent Reason
> Trophy"

 How about: Abunch of Nits Driving Silly Little Cars with Bicycles on
the Roof in the Woods For No Apparent Reason Trophy.
I have been bemoaning the dumbing down of the CT to anyone who would
listen for some years now.
    John and Muddy

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From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:32:04 -0300
Subject: The begining of etc

Right that does it! No more proper Camel Trophy so I'm gonna quit
smoking. There that'll learn em.
    John and Muddy
 PS I really quit 12 years ago

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:56:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR?? 

Steven wrote:

<< While we are on the subject of the Camel Trophy...
   Did this year seem extremely lacking in offroad driving or was it just my 
   impression?  >>

	On one hand, they had to water it down so that the Freeloaded could
actually complete the trip.   Face it folks the CT has morphed from an off-road
adventure that emphasized driving skills to an MTV, yuppy, "high adventure",
let's-go-play-with-snowboards-and-kyacks thing.   

	Does anyone remember when all of the special tasks were either
driving or navigation or winching.  Back when the operational question was
"can we complete the 1000mile route?"

	Maybe we need to start the "Classic Camel Trophy".

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 09:11:42 -0500
Subject: Re[4]: Don't ruin your -lockers- 

>Example: Normal situation (locked) - begining of one wheel spin, could be 
>normal differential action (unlocked) - continue one wheel spin (oh no! time 
>to act again, Locked again) - traction to the non-spining wheel.

both wheels are always turning. there is no case where one wheel is spinnig 
madly while the other one is stopped. they both turn the same speed, 50/50 
torque split. if one loses traction the other keeps going. the situation you 
describe above and in your land-cruiser story is more like what would happen in 
a limited slip. 

Later

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 09:14:03 -0500
Subject: Re[4]: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks. 

>Sure you can get all the torque going to one wheel per axle. They're locked, 
>right. Now you crawl up a hill and get cross axled, one wheel goes up in the 
>air, now all the torque for that axle is going to one wheel, and yes, it can 
>break...

not with a detroit or other similar locker. they are locked all the time. yes 
it is still possible to break an axle but not this way. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 09:18:44 -0500
Subject: Re[4]: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.  

        >Actually Dave, lockers are only used to gain traction when you think
>that one wheel will have none (ie otherwise would be spinning).  So you will 
>be putting the whole load on a single halfshaf.  Hence they will be more 
>likely to break.

nope. c'mon ben. think it through buddy. once you are locked you have a 50/50 
torque split between halfshafts. regardless of wheel position or traction. 
unless its a limited slip. I am tlaking about real lockers.

        >It all depends upon where you drive.  Most of the rock crawling trails
>in California assuem that you have a certain clearance.  When I had 29"
>tyres and normal shackles, lots of rocks would hit my frame.  (Look at Dora's 
>tranny cross member one day--it's scary).  Changing to 32" tyres and the 
>military shackles in the rear almost comepletely eliminated this.   

I've heard that having the spring mounts attached to the frame helps too...

later

dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 09:26:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates?????...Now TeriAnn....! 

>A new guy turned up for one of our club RTV competitions recently with a set 
>of these fitted to a ser 11. Our scrutineer sent him away with a flea in his 
>ear to "go join a none ARC club" as the ARC rules state that all suspension 
>parts should conform to original Land Rover equipment (or words to that 
>effect). 

sort of almost became an issue here too mike. I don't know what the final 
decision was but actually, they ARE original LR equipment. They came from 
Santanas. I think ARC needs to approach this issue sensibly. Aot of peopl are 
going to be changing out to these springs.

later
dave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 12:22:47 -0500
Subject: Re[3]: Beginning of the end for LR?? 

>Tom Collins said they didnt use the winches once!

can one even be fitted? doubt it...

maybe they are just trying to "tread lightly"

oh well. another good thing ruined by a large corporation.
what else is new.

later

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 11:17:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Another whatis (No LR) 

> Bicycles,prams,sunglasses,teddy bears wiv funny 'ats 
What's a PRAM? Robyn Hitchcock finds them somewhat humorous,
but he finds everything humorous, and Billy Bragg has a song with a 
line somewhere in it about "People ask me When will you grow up to
be a man, But all the girls I loved at school are already pushing prams"

baby carriage. as in "all the girls I loved at school are pushing baby 
carriages around, therefore I can surmise that they have been defiled by the 
"presence" another man, which makes them undesireable to me."

good thing I don't write song lyrics

laate
rdave

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A New Trophy

 
While we are on the subject of the Camel Trophy...
Did this year seem extremely lacking in offroad driving or was it just my
 Tom Collins said they didnt use the winches once!
 *sigh*
 
 Michael Slade
 www.DreamLab.cc

   Lets contact Philip Morris and start up a new event "THE MARLBORO TROPHY"
Make it a real off road event like Camel used to be, and piss off R J Reynolds
in the process. Heck, Marlboros are much more associated with the rugged
outdoors than Camels were, plus the name Marlboro is already tied very closely
with many other motorsport/racing events and teams. How bout it, make it open
only to "real" Land Rovers with leaf springs, maybe we could stretch and let
Defenders in. Absolutely no Disco's, Rangies, Freeloaders, nothing with leather
interiors or A/C, no CD players, no cup holders for cappucino, no GPS's just a
Silva compass and a topo map. I'm serious, I'll bet Philip Morris would look
at it, any chance to go one up on a competitor and sell more cigs. I'll drive
the 101 and trailer as a support vehicle.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
Portland, Or.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:17:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

On Thursday, September 17, 1998 12:10 PM, Adrian Redmond 
[SMTP:channel6@post2.tele.dk] wrote:
> BMW theory is probably the same as the jap-concept - give them something
> which will get massive press when it's released - generate sales, give
> the customer something which looks great standing in the yard or the
> office car park - for the first four years, then - when the payments are
> paid up, let it slowly rust, fail and fall apart so that they buy
> another one.

Hopefully the Freelander is just a small aberration and not a sign of 
things to come.  The reason I bought my Disco is because of memories of the 
D109s, D110s and Classic Range Rover.  I still can't get used to the fact 
of an off-road vehicle with a unibody construction.

Steven

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:17 -0500
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

> Maybe the Solihull decline is just symbolic of the world in which we
> live.

Same thing happened to Fender... their biggest competition is
themselves... when you could buy an old blackface twin reverb
for about the same price as a new "re-issue", you're gonna buy
the old one...

And if you've got the old one, you're gonna baby it and maintain
it and probably never get rid of it.

It's a little different with Rovers, but a lot the same... I could have
gotten a new Defender, but why do that when I could get an old
one that's just as much fun and a lot cheaper...

Is there ANYONE making a 4x4 car that is meant to last these
days? In my (albeit limited) eyes there seems to be the Defender,
Hummer, and the Unimog... ONE of which is available in the states.
Any others?  

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:34:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

In a message dated 16/09/98 21:57:31 BST, you write:

<<  I got their minds off that Clinton thing. >>
what Clinton thing?  :-)>

"no, no, a bigger spoon than that."

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:34:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

In a message dated 16/09/98 21:57:31 BST, you write:

<<  I got their minds off that Clinton thing. >>
what Clinton thing?  :-)>

"no, no, a bigger spoon than that."

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:39:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a Salisbury in a 90 for Luis.

While I don't speak German, The comment was relative to the appearance of the
word in common English usage,

English the best of the Robber languages.

Zack Arbios
Amok, stolen from the Malay

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From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 17 Sep 1998 13:25:00 -0400
Subject: Camel Trophy

What's this I hear they didn't use winches this?

We had to use winches on the OVLR Light Off-road at the 
Birthday Party.  Does this mean that everyone who did the 
light off-road can qualify as Camel Trophy drivers?

Wow, TimeWarp Overland here we come!  Even the Big Green 
Beastie could finish this CT course.  Yo!  Ben, saddle up Dora!

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From: "chris risely" <risely@mailexcite.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:33:39 -0700
Subject: (No Subject)

unsubscribe lro  [risely@mailexcite.com]

Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

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From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:50:57 -0400
Subject: RE: Camel Trophy

On Thursday, September 17, 1998 1:25 PM, Kenner, Dixon 
[SMTP:Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca] wrote:
> What's this I hear they didn't use winches this?
> We had to use winches on the OVLR Light Off-road at the
> Birthday Party.  Does this mean that everyone who did the
> light off-road can qualify as Camel Trophy drivers?

Based upon the coverage provided at the Camel Trophy site, the terrain 
appeared not to be that difficult.  There was only one blizzard, which I 
think they didn't drive in anyway.

Steven

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:45:23 -0500
Subject: RE: Camel Trophy

>What's this I hear they didn't use winches this?

For what it sounds like, they would have better used Sidekicks for this CT,
saved some bucks and not made a shame of the rover community.
:-\

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:14:35 EDT
Subject: Torque considerations

To all,

Torque can only be applied against resistance.  To test, try to get a reading
on a torque wrench without attaching it to a nut or bolt.  Therefore, when the
wheel is loose in the air, not pulling against the ground, there is little
torque applied to that half shaft (only enough to get the wheel to go 'round)
The other side with traction does have torque.  Both wheels may have the same
angular velocity, but that is not torque (or so standard Newtonian physics
tells us).  Therefore:  in the case of a locking diff, both wheels may turn at
the same velocity but have vastly different torques whereas in a standard
diff, they turn with different speeds but will have the same torque (close to
zero).

Quod erat demonstrandum

Nate

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From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:09:56 -0500
Subject: Cross-Country Road Trip Alert

Hi all,

If all goes according to plan, tomorrow (Friday) at this time my (former)
Rover, a '66 IIa 88,  will be on the road, heading from Minneapolis to it's
new home in Maryland. It will be a sad day for me having to see it go, after
having put so much time, blood and enthusiasm in rescuing it from a rotten
frame and PO neglect. I imagine that someday I'll return to Series
ownership, but until then I suppose a Discovery will have to make due as I
don't have the time & money to keep both around currently.

Many thanks to all those that helped with my frame-over two years ago, and
all the little joys of ownership over the last 4 years. Without the list I
could not have done it. I'm going to encourage the new owner to be come a
list member as well (and we will no doubt be laughing about *his* SPOTs :-)
).

So, all of you eastern midwest people, keep your eyes open for a poppy red
88 with Minnesota collector plates, give him a wave and a honk if you see
him. I'll be sending along some Guinness as 'barter' should he need it :-)

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

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From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:50:16 -0400
Subject: CT Paint Code and K&N for 1bbl Weber...

	
  I've searched the archives for a paint code or equivalent for Camel
Trophy Yellow, but have had no luck. Anyone have any idea?
  Similarly, I haven't found a K&N filter number for use with the single
barrel 34ICH Weber. Anyone???
  Thanks...

Jeff G.

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@unimog.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: CT Paint Code ..

At 03:50 PM 9/17/98 -0400, you wrote:
>	
>  I've searched the archives for a paint code or equivalent for Camel
>Trophy Yellow, but have had no luck. Anyone have any idea?

 www.landrover.net/paint

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From: "John McMaster" <john@chiaroscuro.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:06:03 +0100
Subject: RE: Welding and Buying UK stuff

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:11:43 +0200
Subject: Re: Torque considerations

Cheers Nate -

That explanation was so clearly put - that I will archive it for future
reference.

(I guess that's what makes the wheels go around then...?)

:-)

NADdMD@aol.com wrote:

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:14:23 -0400
Subject: Customs

When I imported my 109 the form had a section for "Temporary "
importatrtion, max 12 months, this was ticked so I had to go to a lot of
trouble to get it changed to permanent import, so Yes it is possible to have
temporary importation.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 15:21:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Torque considerations 

To all,

>>Torque can only be applied against resistance. 

I think what you mean is torque can only be *measured* against resistance.
yes? no?
besides, there is still resistance even in a case of a lifted wheel. 

No matter what, the rotational energy, like all energy, follows the path of 
lease resistance. in an open diff this causes the lifted wheel to spin. in a 
locked diff, well, it can only go one way and that is a 50/50 split between 
both wheels. The torque on the loaded wheel (the side with traction) is still 
only going to be a percentage of the engines toal energy. 

>.  Therefore:  in the case of a locking diff, both wheels may turn at the 
>same velocity but have vastly different torques whereas in a standard diff, 
>they turn with different speeds but will have the same torque (close to 
>zero).

the same torque is being applied, only one side has resistance. picture trying 
to remove two wheel nuts with an air ratchet. One is really loose and comes 
right off, and the other one takes a few seconds to start spinning. Th wrench 
applies the same amount of force, but there is more torwque *required* to move 
the stubborn one. 

Hence, on a lockered axle, you are obviously more likely to break the axle that 
is on the ground then the one in the air, since ther eis no resistance to the 
one in the air. If it were to suddenly have a load appied to it however, you 
would find that there was quite a bit of torque there indeed. I guess this 
falls inot the category of "potential energy".

I think
later
dave

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:30:54 -0400
Subject: Turbo

> Is it possible to fir a turbo to a Land Rover diesel ?
 Yes it is Rover did it back in the sixties and again in the eighties, not
very sucesful on a three bearing crank, There are a few UK companikes that
offer kits, Allard etc.
 To get the best from turbocharging would require a number of mods to the
engine, for example a reduction in compression ratio etc.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:34 -0500
Subject: RE: Torque considerations 

>>Torque can only be applied against resistance.
> I think what you mean is torque can only be *measured* against   
resistance.
> yes? no?

No... Torque is the rotational force apllied to the axle... the   
rotational force
required to spin a tire in the air is very little... I do it every time I   
adjust my
brakes, over and over... and it does't even wear me out... the rotational   
force
applied to the axle required to pull TAW's Green rover over a large rock   
is
equal to the lever arm of the wheel times the weight of the truck...   
divided
about by two if the weight is distributed evenly and the truck is on   
level ground.
That's a freshman level statics problem very roughly stated, but you get   
the
picture... there's a lot of torque there... That torque exists only when   
her engine
is running and actually applying that much force to the axle.

comprendes-tu?

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:39:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Don't ruin your rover with J**p tricks.

One is a J**p truck, the other a Br**co. Both have t-18 trannys.

david_r._bobeck@ushmm.org wrote:

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 14:04:38 -0700
Subject: Re: A New Trophy

<SNIP>
> How bout it, make it open only to "real" Land Rovers with leaf springs
<SNIP>

;>Rgds
;>Mike Fredette
;>Portland, Or.

!!!!!!!   O.K. so who is this really and why are you using Mike's email 
address???

I KNOW from past flame wars that this could not possibly have been 
written by Mike.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:01:47 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 9/17/98 12:57:34 PM, Ben wrote:

<<Maybe we need to start the "Classic Camel Trophy".>>

I'm in. 

Cosidering my vehicle, though, I may be relegated to "support status", but
that's ok... they get to pre-run the course ;-)

There's got to be lots of space in Canada that no one will miss if we borrow
it for a week...

--pat.

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:57:39 -0500
Subject: RE: Torque and french considerations 

>comprendes-tu?

Actually, it is "comprende vous?".

Couldn't resist, sorry!

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:05:19 EDT
Subject: Re[4]: Don't ruin your/ detroit locker

In a message dated 9/17/98 1:17:35 PM, you wrote:

<<>Sure you can get all the torque going to one wheel per axle. They're
locked, 
>right. Now you crawl up a hill and get cross axled, one wheel goes up in the 
>air, now all the torque for that axle is going to one wheel, and yes, it can 
>break...
not with a detroit or other similar locker. they are locked all the time. yes 
it is still possible to break an axle but not this way.>>

I still think you can get all torque to one wheel and break an axle, even with
a Detroit...

maybe I'm just confused. We can debate it over a cold one at the Middy...

--pat.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:07:22 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 9/17/98 1:19:17 PM, you wrote:

<< The reason I bought my Disco is because of memories of the 
D109s, D110s and Classic Range Rover.>>

Whoa, dude. I think the "Disco era" left your memory a bit off. D109?

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:21 -0500
Subject: RE: Torque and french considerations 

>comprendes-tu?
> Actually, it is "comprende vous?".
> Couldn't resist, sorry!

Actually, formal would be comprendez-vous? (hyphenated inversion)
I hate formal... especially when hanging out in the Bloody Knuckles
pub with a Bass, so I used the informal... I was really only asking
whoever I was responding to...

But "comprede vous?"... wouldn't that be some lazy form of
"I understand you, don't i?"

 -Scott  

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:32:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Torque considerations

<<>Torque can only be applied against resistance. 
I think what you mean is torque can only be *measured* against resistance.
yes? no?
besides, there is still resistance even in a case of a lifted wheel. >>

--Yes there is resistance, but it is mainly the drag of the pads on disc/
shoes on drum and hub bearing friction. That takes about 1 index finger's
worth of torque to overcome.

<<No matter what, the rotational energy, like all energy, follows the path of 
lease resistance. in an open diff this causes the lifted wheel to spin. in a 
locked diff, well, it can only go one way and that is a 50/50 split between 
both wheels. The torque on the loaded wheel (the side with traction) is still 
only going to be a percentage of the engines toal energy. >>

--You are putting too much faith in the 50/50 split. It is only 50/50 (even
with the Detroit) if coef. of friction at each contact patch is equal...

<<>.  Therefore:  in the case of a locking diff, both wheels may turn at the 
>same velocity but have vastly different torques whereas in a standard diff, 
>they turn with different speeds but will have the same torque (close to 
>zero).
the same torque is being applied, only one side has resistance. picture trying
to remove two wheel nuts with an air ratchet. One is really loose and comes 
right off, and the other one takes a few seconds to start spinning. Th wrench 
applies the same amount of force, but there is more torwque *required* to move
the stubborn one. >>

--I don't think the wrench applies the same amount of force. Try it with a
normal wrench and your hand applying the torque. If the same amount was
applied, your wrist would suffer on the loose nut, and the tool would fly off.
Say it took exactly 30 ft-lbs to move the tight nut. If you then used the same
Torque Wrench set to, say, the same 30 ft-lbs, on the *loose nut*, it would
register close to *zero*. If you can find a way to make that lever show 30 ft-
lbs., on the loose nut, I'll... well I'll join the "cso-list" for a day.
maybe.

<<Hence, on a lockered axle, you are obviously more likely to break the axle
that 
is on the ground then the one in the air, since ther eis no resistance to the 
one in the air. If it were to suddenly have a load appied to it however, you 
would find that there was quite a bit of torque there indeed. I guess this 
falls inot the category of "potential energy".>> 

--The torque is "there" but not being applied to anything other than the brake
& bearing drag. As the wheel regains traction, it starts to receive a share of
the 100% that is being *applied* to the halfshaft with traction, until both
wheels have equal traction, and the split is 50/50 ;-)

<<I think>>

--I think so too. 

Nate, Dave, will you both be at Penlan? I want to see the wheel nut torque
trick demonstrated with equal torque... I've got a spare pair of nuts in the
back of the 110... ;-)

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:27:35 -0500
Subject: RE: Torque and french considerations 

-
>But "comprede vous?"... wouldn't that be some lazy form of
>"I understand you, don't i?"

Oui. Sort of.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:30:13 -0500
Subject: RE: Torque and french considerations 

>Actually, formal would be comprendez-vous? (hyphenated inversion)
>I hate formal... especially when hanging out in the Bloody Knuckles
>pub with a Bass, so I used the informal... I was really only asking
>whoever I was responding to...

I really think we need another virtual-beer here! (cellar or freezer
temperature doesn't matter)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

-

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:39:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Torque considerations 

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 dbobeck@inetmail.ushmm.org wrote:

:yes? no?
:besides, there is still resistance even in a case of a lifted wheel. 
:
:No matter what, the rotational energy, like all energy, follows the path of 
:lease resistance. in an open diff this causes the lifted wheel to spin. in a 
:locked diff, well, it can only go one way and that is a 50/50 split between 
:both wheels. The torque on the loaded wheel (the side with traction) is still 
:only going to be a percentage of the engines toal energy. 

the purpose of a differential is to allow the two output sides to rotate
at differnet speeds, right?  this allows you to do nifty things, like go
around a corner at speed.  The other result is that the torque applied to
the ground by the wheel is the same.  This means if one wheel spins, the
other one applies no torque.  A non-differenating diff, whether it be a
limited slip, a posi-trac, a detrioit locker-style thing, a real locker,
or a welded spool doesn't let the wheels rotate at different rates[1],
which means that the torque applied by the wheels can be unequal.  This
does mean that wth a Series truck, and a locker on one axle, all the
torque can be applied to one wheel.  The available torque from a 2.25L
engine is not enough that I would worried about snapping half-shafts on
the trail.  I would expect ot break them more often in parking lots,
though.  

Every broken series half-shaft i have seen has looked like a fatigue
failure.  

David

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From: eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:47:06 -0500
Subject: Defenders built offshore?

Well, that nasty little Bavarian motorbike company has U S production
facilities, as it so happens. Maybe they'll build some Defenders over here,
with side and front air bags, reinforced doors, center brake lights, etc.
etc. etc.

    _____
___(_____)           By the time you get it all together
|Baby the\           sometimes you can't remember why
|1969 Land\_===__    you wanted it together
   ___Rover   ___|o  in the first place.
|_/ . \______/ .  ||
 __\_/________\_/________________________________________________
Ned Heite, Camden, DE  http://home.dmv.com/~eheite/index.html

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:04:15 -0700
Subject: RE: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

That makes sense: with the advent of the SIII, the grill was plastic,
therefore "not full metal construction". Clearly, you can't cook on
the plastic grill!!!!:>)))

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 15:13:26 -0700
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

> Maybe the Solihull decline is just symbolic of the world 
> in which we live.

Oh well I guess that's the way the British auto industry crumbles.  

The British had been working hard to change the nature of Rovers into 
luxury 4X4 cars before the Germans purchased the company.  Who knows 
maybe the German Rovers will be more successful competing with the Lexis 
and Honda 4X4 automobiles

With the exception of purchasing OEM parts, repackaging them into Genuine 
Land Rover boxes then adding a markup, Rover has long since stopped 
supporting series Rovers.

>From my perspective, keeping my series rig going is no different than 
keeping my TR3 or the  MGBGT I used to own going.  Since the factory is 
not supporting my car they are largely irrelevant to me.  

Though I admit it has been nice to look at the new Defenders and know 
that my car is part of an unbroken 50 year product run.  But to me a 
Freeloader is really no more different than the Range Rover or Discovery 
since none of those cars have anything in common with mine.  Even the 
Land Rover badge is the wrong colour.

The Defender is already dead in North America.  For those of us living 
there killing the Defender world wide makes no real difference except for 
purely sentimental reasons.

I like my car, I know what she can do, OEM companies will still be making 
parts as long as people buy them.  The decay of the British automobile 
manufacturing industry has long since lost it's ability to affect my cars.

And as far as the Camel Trophy changing some emphasis from driving to non 
driving activities when they switched to Freeloaders, Am I the only one 
who noticed that the did the same thing when they went from Defenders to 
Discoveries?

The British automotive manufacturing industry is dead.  Long live the 
British heritage parts manufacturing business.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:20:36 +1000
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a Salisbury in a 90 for Luis.

Luis

sad to say I suspect you bought a home made job  :-(  (wrong roof, wrong
windscreen, wrong axle shafts, wrong engine, wrong gearbox etc)

I'd suspect that if you looked at the axles they're probably of an old
Rangie

Quite a few hybrid/bastard/look-a-like 90s were built in Australia, most
often on a cut-down Rangie chasis (frame), mainly because you couldn't  get
90s here (still can't).  For the price they are in the US I'd have thought
a few would have been built out of dead Rangies too

not that it matters tooooo much if you just want to play with it , but I'd
be careful about spending too much money on genuine bits (such as original
engine and gearbox) as you will probably never end up with an original
vehicle - just 'fix' it with whatever you can find that's cheapest and
works

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:22:56 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

In a message dated 9/17/98 6:04:55 PM, you wrote:

<<That makes sense: with the advent of the SIII, the grill was plastic,
therefore "not full metal construction". Clearly, you can't cook on
the plastic grill!>>

It is, however, Microwave Safe and Dishwasher Safe, so maybe it came about
with the rise in popularity of the "TV Dinner"... ;-)

--pat.

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:29:41 +1000
Subject: Re: portal axles

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:56:28 EDT
Subject: Re:  unimogs/driveline twist?
In a message dated 9/16/98 2:15:24 PM, you wrote:
<< >  This ingenious design uses
 >only one u-joint per driveline and virtually eliminates driveline
 >twist.  To accomplish this of course, the axles are fully floating
 >with a coil spring suspension.
what the hell are you talking about? >>
Maybe he's talking about "Portal Axles", which have the diff & half shafts
raised above the wheels' center, and then a reduction gear drive (usually)
down to the hubs. Gives you tons of ground to diff clearance, and your diff
pinion is close to in-line with the x-fer case output.

The other graet thing about this design is that if you get in deep (read
verrrrry deep) mud you sink untill the bodywork/chasis/fram etc hits the
ground

Once spent an afternoon watching the Australian Army recovering a Unimog
from a boghole, the previous afternoon an ex-Australian army Internation
had recovered itself from the hole in about half an hour as it had only
sunk as far as the axles and was able to winch itself out - too deep for
the Unimog to achieve that

As that bloke puts on the bottom of his email messages - 4x4 allows you to
get stuck in more inaccessable places - the more capable it becomes the
harder it tends to be when it eventually does get stuck - and unfortunately
we always seem to push to just past our capabilities (that was just
politically correct really I think it should be fortunately as I enjoy the
challenge)

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:49:15 -0500
Subject: RV: Thoughts on a Salisbury in a 90 for Luis.

>>Luis
>>sad to say I suspect you bought a home made job  :-(  (wrong roof, wrong
>>windscreen, wrong axle shafts, wrong engine, wrong gearbox etc)
>>I'd suspect that if you looked at the axles they're probably of an old
>>Rangie
>>Quite a few hybrid/bastard/look-a-like 90s were built in Australia, most

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>>Quite a few hybrid/bastard/look-a-like 90s were built in Australia, most
>>often on a cut-down Rangie chasis (frame), mainly because you couldn't
get
>>90s here (still can't).  For the price they are in the US I'd have thought
>>a few would have been built out of dead Rangies too
>>not that it matters tooooo much if you just want to play with it , but I'd
>>be careful about spending too much money on genuine bits (such as original
>>engine and gearbox) as you will probably never end up with an original
>>vehicle - just 'fix' it with whatever you can find that's cheapest and
>>works

I've checked it throughly this days. It is really a 90 from the waist down.
(except for the engine and tranni). You cannot register a home made job if
it is not stated that way. It's got the right VIN #. The axles are not
wrong, they are original. The dealer recognized and identified the
half-shafts part #, the problem is that there are too few of this trucks so
they
dont bother to stock those parts. They say it was just a small number of
this axles that where fitted to 90s.
It's got the right suspension, A-arm and all, the VIN stamped on the
chassis, the right cappings, the right fenders and lights, etc.
The problem here is that the guy who owned it I guess didn't had the money
nor the interest to get original stuff to do the changes he wanted, so he
managed. My bet is that originally it was a soft top and either the top went
bad or the guy wanted a hard top, and so the sad story began.
So, what is completly wrong about it is that roof. As soon as the rainy
season is over, if it ever is, I will take it off.
It's fun to drive, and it looks good. Everybody stares at it, because it is
not common.
I'll fix it up a little, try to make it more reliable and have fun with it.
Any rover should serve for that purpose, even this one.
I'm not planning to buy any big-bucks things for it. Maybe if I find some
rangie drivetrain stuff (used, of course) I can begin to experiment, but
those are only thougths. It can serve it's purpose as it is (well, almost).
Thanks for your concern.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Paul Lonsdale <Lonsdale@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:58:34 -0400
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

<<  CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote: <<  I work for British Airways, >>

 Small world, so do I.     :)
 
  <<I have a cargo allowance that I'm saving up >>
  
  I did not know you could "save it up". I thought it was the same 
allowance each year, but lost at the end of each year if not used.
  
  It would be handy if you could though.. I have worked there 20 years, 
and never used my cargo allowance.
  
  Just think what I could ship with that lot... a 101 one piece at a 
time maybe?

 Paul

 Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:34

 Ex- H.M. Coastguard Series III 88 Inch
 "Dougal Mc Landie"  B 895 OJT
 

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:04:32 -0700
Subject: RE: RE: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

Oh, I get it...you can still use the grill to cook, even though it is
plastic, by putting your food on the grill and then putting them in
the uwave. Good idea. And of course this is more appropriate for the
Dormobile crowd :>))

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

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From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Another whatis (No LR)

Prams are baby buggies.

At 10:49 AM 9/17/98 -0500, you wrote:

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:27:15 +0200
Subject: End of the beginning of the end for LR??

TeriAnn wrote:

For those of us living there [US] killing the Defender world wide makes
no real difference except for purely sentimental reasons.

But isn't sentimentality the prime force which keeps us, and our rovers
running? Don't tell me thatbstrippinga 2.25 or the gearbox is about
anything else :-)

I just love the simplicity of these rigs - the front axle is beautiful -
musical - over dimensioned, functional, and solid. I am not sure what
british heritage is about any more (why do the Brits call culture
heritage - when the rest of the world say culture? maybe that's because
heritage is about what we once had - culture is about what we have
today)

When looking through the eye of a newly painted, clean, and re-bearinged
front axle - I see our nations former glory rise again before my eyes.
Only to have the memories thrashed into oblivion when the doorseals let
the heavens fall on my best trousers. My car must be a wednesday chassis
with a monday body?

Sentimentality, waxing lyrical, romanticising about the demise of the
empire, it's real ale, and the failure of British custard beyond our
rocky shores is the real fuel of Rovering. Diesel is just the catylist.

Not wanting to start an motor-ethnic war, and respecting the opinion of
those who consider the SIIA to be the last land rover, I think the ghost
was given up when the stage four emerged - the thin end of the "let's
dress it up as a 'proper' car" wedge. The range rover is a comfortable,
powerful and attractive automobile, but the price of progress was a rust
trap without precendence- The disco and the freeloader are just plastic
fringed, scaled down versions of the same. Nice cars, nice rovers, but
not land rovers. Snobbery - what me? No - sentimentalirty! the series
(apart from the plastic grille and dash) never pretended to be anything
it wasn't - somehow a hand brush-painted, leaking landy with a dripping
diff and a grating gearbox never worries me as much as a Ford Mundaneo
with a loose door handle. 

That was the secret of the series - a 30 year old wagon which, given a
lick of paint looks more presentable than a four year old jap-can at 10
yards.

We're not talking about the demise of land Rover - but the demise of
motoring itself - motoring has become overshadowed by transport -
getting from A to B - rather than enjoying the places in between.

So what do the old british cars have in common? They were mostly
produced by autocratic companies using an old-world technology which
relied to much on craftsmanship and too little on development. They were
built by a generation who were lead by the blind into wrecking the
workplaces on which they depended by resisting change at a time when
they could have controlled it's course. Their electrics are ajoke, their
threads an anachronism, yet 20 - 30 years after they were built, when
rediscovered under a pile of hay and chicken s**t, they still smell like
a british car, they still sound and feel like a british car, and they
imbibe a certain sense of happy pride in anyone who is lucky enough to
ruin their private economy by owning one.

What is the point of spending increasingly thousnads of
dollars/pounds/kroner, more often, for a one-size-fits all heap which
least less years, and which actually drives so much faster, that you
spend less time sitting in it, enjoying the fruits of you hard-payed for
investment. Lower speed = more enjoyment.

Ok - we hate them,. we kick them, and at least once a year we get to
wannting to junk them - but can we? do we? dare we? No, we have become
one with our rolling liabilities.

As a famous english cigar smoking brick-layer once said, when faced with
the last potential coup from the Rhineland - "This is not the end, it is
not even the begining of the end, but it may be the end of the begining"

Romantic - moi?

:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Matthew James Moore <mjm@unr.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Torque considerations 

David,
You stated:

>                             A non-differenating diff, whether it be a
> limited slip, a posi-trac, a detrioit locker-style thing, a real locker,
> or a welded spool doesn't let the wheels rotate at different rates[1],
 
This is not the case.  Find any 4X4 with an automatic locking diff
(Detroit, Lockright etc...) jack up the back axle, rotate one wheel
forward until it stops against the transmision then rotate the oposite
wheel backwards.  This wheel will rotate backwards (i.e. at a different
rate than the other wheel) via a ratcheting mechanism.  This is why they
are called "automatic locking" diffs.  When cornering they allow the
inside wheel to travel at a slower rate than the outside wheel.  Whithout
this feature you could not go around corners very well.  If you apply
excessive engine torque to the diff when it is working in this fashion it
will lock both half shafts together with a loud bang.  The bottom line is
these diffs allow differential axle speeds just in a different way than
open diffs.
	Limited slips also allow "limited slip".  They allow the axle
shafts to turn at different rates (just like an open diff) up to a certain
point.  They tighten up at a certain speed and transfer power to the wheel
with traction.  In other words they also allow differential action.
	The only products that provide no diff action are spools, or one
can weld his/her spider gears together (inadvertantly or otherwise).
	I hope this helps.

Matt Moore
SIII Santana 88'
92 Range Rover

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 16:59:58 -0700
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

> Maybe the Solihull decline is just symbolic of the world 
> in which we live.

Maybe the world in which you live ....

 I always claim that reality is what you make of it.  

My room mate claims that I never made the transition out of the late 
sixties.  

In that case, the glory still exists!

I guess it's time to log off, brew a nice pot of Camomile tea then go out 
& wash the TR3

Groovy

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:00:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Differing on Diffs...

In a message dated 9/17/98 7:36:47 PM, Matt wrote:

<<This is not the case.  Find any 4X4 with an automatic locking diff
(Detroit, Lockright etc...) jack up the back axle, rotate one wheel
forward until it stops against the transmision then rotate the oposite
wheel backwards.  This wheel will rotate backwards (i.e. at a different
rate than the other wheel) via a ratcheting mechanism.>>

Once again, i beg to differ on that. The Detroit doesn't "ratchet". It isn't
the equivalent of two Craftsman Ratchet tools back to back inside the diff
(one per halfshaft, by your definition). It works both ways, by disengaging a
gear. It does "click" like a ratchet's pawls, but that is the beveled tops of
the gears bouncing off each other before the axles' speeds come close enough
for it to lock again.

If you jack up one wheel, you can disengage that wheel in both directions. (it
can't be ratcheting because the crown wheel is stationary, and it disengages
in both directions). The man from detroit locker had a demo diff at GP, and it
showed how it works. It is terribly difficult to describe, but I can assure
you it isn't a ratchet, which would require pawls to prevent the whole system
from rotating the other way. The Detroit physically unlocks the halfshaft that
needs to over/under rotate, but it takes *traction* to do it, which is why it
stays locked on slippery surfaces. The bang experienced by detroit lockers was
mainly due to the release of force when unlocking in certain conditions, like
a tight turn, and a sudden application of power. They now have a locker called
a "Soft-Locker" which cures that clicking/popping noise. BTW, the Detroit
SoftLocker has just been made available for the Salisbury. I have been
delaying my purchase of a Detroit Locker until the new Soft version was
available. Now my bank is delaying the purchase.

I don't know squat about the Lock-Right, and never really bothered to look
into it as most hearsay I've heard was that it was inferior to the Detroit.
Maybe it has ratchets...

On the topic of Limited Slips:

There are many types of LSD, and some do not allow the wheel you have just
jacked up to turn, because there are worm gears inside the diff. Worm gears
can only transmit power, they cannont be driven backwards (unless the pitch is
severe), so you can't turn the raised wheel, it just causes the worm gears to
bind, usually as soon as the play is taken up by the halfshaft. To cause those
diffs to lock up (or bind the worm gears), the driver has to apply the brakes
to slow down the wheel, which is in effect applying a force from the opposite
end. Again it is confusing but if you have a diff in front of you and you
grasp both sides, the concept becomes simple. 

I have no experience with Posi's, and admit that the clutched limited slips do
allow the wheel to rotate for a certain amount before binding, even then they
can be forced.

--pat.

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From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:05:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Defenders built offshore?

Don`t have to worry about the center brake lite..............they already had
them.
RGDS, Rick

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:06:38 EDT
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 9/17/98 7:57:51 PM, you wrote:

<<My room mate claims that I never made the transition out of the late 
sixties.>>

[snip]

<<I guess it's time to log off, brew a nice pot of Camomile tea then go out 
& wash the TR3>>

I guess it's time to log off...

                ( ...turn on the Lava lamp,)

brew a nice pot of Camomille tea...

                  (...light some incense,)

then go out...

            (... twirl around and love nature,)

& wash the TR3

	     (...after the VW bus.)

OK, maybe I have seen too many movies ;-) but I do get your point.

--pat.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Steven Henry <sahenry@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:12:51 -0400
Subject: RE: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

On Thursday, September 17, 1998 5:07 PM, SPYDERS@aol.com [SMTP:SPYDERS@aol.com] 
wrote:
> Whoa, dude. I think the "Disco era" left your memory a bit off. D109?

Sorry.  I was typing a bit too fast...

Steven

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From: DHW4U@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:36:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Cross-Country Road Trip Alert

if your new owner comes through PA 
he can say hello to my poppy red

dave walls 
65 IIa 88

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Namaes (was Stereotypes) (was fusing concepts) no LR cont

In a message dated 17/09/98 00:02:05 BST, you write:

 *for those who never saw the Saturday Night Live shows on US "TV", "pat" was
 an asexual/androgynous character... not that I'm allying myself, but in the
 spirit of the thread, I thought I'd point it out... >>

There was a waitress in England who wore a name badge on the, ahem,  bodice
area of her outfit. It read "Pat-this is not an instruction or invitation"

tee hee
Best Cheers

Frank (& honest)
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:36:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Namaes (was Stereotypes) (was fusing concepts) no LR cont

In a message dated 16/09/98 23:57:15 BST, you write:

<< So your son, instead of being just another Elson, would be Frankson... >>
he's actually called Rutherford...........(surname) but that's another story.
BTW, Elson is a Viking name, there are a lot of them spread around the North
of England...
This makes me a Viking, I'm 5ft 4 ins and dark (apart from the grey)
My sons (stepsons but we dropped that long ago) have the surname Rutherford
and are from Prod/Northern Irish/Scottish stock, yet are both over 6ft and
fair........
are we a mongrel race or wot?
LR content: I'm after a tax-exempt Ser 2/2A for Neil so he can take my
grandchildren to school and have fun and stop "borrowing" my 110.

In October I hope to meet some Elsons, or at least get some addresses. My
research goes back to the sixteenth Century and Ellson so far.
All I get apart from that are guesses but pointers to Denmark or Sweden (not
Norway for some strange reason).

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Lockers, broken axles, and other stuff.

In a message dated 17/09/98 00:08:56 BST, you write:

<<  I'm sure there is someone
 out there who has a broken a brand new axle by a specific case of abuse but
 that is the exception. >><
I was sitting in the navigators seat of my friend's 90. He had gone over where
he shouldn't and we were nose down and going nowhere. A "friend" threw some
mud at him through his open window then went behind the truck.
Larry (for 'twas he) revved the goolies off it and dropped the clutch to spray
mud over friend. "Bang" went the front diff.
All that weight was on the front  wasn't it... he still can't believe he was
so stupid (whwereas all those who know him can believe it.....)

  >>
 	In my limited poll about locking differentials, the axles supposedly 
break
 less often with lockers.  The theory is that they do not get an opportunity
 to wind up and apply unusual torque to the axle.  I'm sure its the windup
 and sudden stop that stresses the axles beyond their design limits. >>

hmm, so there I was, going nowhere in a rocky gully with PKV almost on its
side, a rock digging a hole in the side door and one front wheel up in
t'air.....
I put the rear locker (vaccuum - a prototype I'll be writing up in LRO soon)
in to see if that would move me.
It ripped the rear propshaft apart.......
dunno what it proves, but it shows that Salisbury axled are stronger than
props ...
BUT why didn't the UJ give way first???

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:20 EDT
Subject: Re: TeriAnn ruining her Dormobile

In a message dated 17/09/98 02:14:41 BST, you write:

<<  But then, aren't some Australian Land 
 Rovers built with Nissan engines???? >>
nope, Isuzu.
Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine and gearbox ect...

In a message dated 17/09/98 05:02:51 BST, you write:

 Most important are the friends... The few that I have all think I'm 
 crazy for getting such an 'unreliable' car, so I just read my new
 copy of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintnance for my moral
 support...  >>
while I've been "excused games" this year I've spent a great deal of time just
sitting in the workshop ading moral support to one or more of my friends
working on their Land Rovers.In more than a few cases they've picked me up
first.
Find some new friends.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Aston Martin

In a message dated 17/09/98 02:07:24 BST, you write:

 <<Lagonda>>
 Anyone know the origin of this name?
  >>
It was a coachcraft name, goes back to the days in the UK when one company
made the rolling chassis, the other put the body on (Mulliner etc).
Aston Martin bought the company that put the "best" body on their chassis.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Aston Martin

In a message dated 17/09/98 01:56:19 BST, you write:

  Aston MArtin Lagonda  is owned by the FORD motor company, what is British
 about that ?
  >>
so's Jaguar

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:23 EDT
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

In a message dated 17/09/98 02:43:35 BST, you write:

<< A table of values is given ranging from $4,000 for a "project car with
 all components and most details inctac, limited rust or structural
 damage, but needing extensive restoration before being usable." to
 $21,000 for fully resored arward winning car not driven since
 restoration. I mention these prices since someone is sure to seize on
 them as authoratative, not because they really mean anything.
  >>
when people ask me "how much is that Land Rover worth?" I usually reply, "how
long is a piece of string?"
My PKV has about £12,000 UKP invested in it, but is it worth that? It's worth
DOUBLE that.... to me....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Inspection light sockets

In a message dated 17/09/98 09:48:09 BST, you write:

<< And the NHS isnt that hot either. >>
you mean apart from paying my SO and keeping me alive these last five months?

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Lockers.

In a message dated 17/09/98 01:10:17 BST, you write:

<< apparently, the 500 mile drive home at 75 mph 
 was just enough to sieze everything up real well...  >>
similar to my 425 mile drive home at 70 plus (officer) with a leaky gearbox.
You know the sound of several tin cans going round in a tumble dryer?
well......

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Parabolic spring updates?????...Now TeriAnn....!

In a message dated 17/09/98 18:17:42 BST, you write:

<<  I think ARC needs to approach this issue sensibly >>
yet another contradiction in terms

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:21 EDT
Subject: Re: TeriAnn ruining her Dormobile

In a message dated 17/09/98 02:27:48 BST, you write:

<< Today, I think there are very good "in house" engines to choose from (cost
&
 availablity here, aside), from LR. >>
yeah, but availability, cost etc do matter.
I would have liked a Tdi to stay within ARC (Association of Rover Clubs)
rules., but my Iveco 2.5 turbo has as much bhp as the Tdi, cost nearly half,
fitted, and is featured in three different makes of truck in Europe.
Therefore I can get bits for it from Fiat, Renault or Iveco/Ford.
We were stuck in Budapest one year for want of a timing belt for a Tdi. The
next year I checked and I could have got a belt for my Iveco from 17 different
places.
No contest.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 17/09/98 08:47:29 BST, you write:

 WHAAAAT!!!????...... The last REAL Land Rover model and it won't be built
 in Britain - it's sacriledge (can't spell at the mo, I'm too furious).
  >>
I wondered who'd be the first.
 What the hell does it matter where it's built???

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:37 EDT
Subject: Re: For Scott's inquiring mind...

In a message dated 17/09/98 16:07:34 BST, you write:

<< Bellhousing:  Don't feel bad, I didn't know what it was a year or 2 ago.
It
 is the aluminium (in rovers) cast piece which connects the flywheel housing
to
 the gearbox proper.  The bellhousing has the primary pinion (primary
 shaft)running through it and engages the mainshaft.  It also has the front
 layshaft bearing in it.  It attaches to the gearbox by 4 big bolts. >>

and, oddly enough, shaped roughly, sort of, like a .... er.... bell.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Namaes (was Stereotypes) (was fusing concepts) no LR cont

In a message dated 17/09/98 00:22:29 BST, you write:

<< Abuse is always present in any country with the names. I know of a kid who
 lived near Port of Limon named "Usnavy". I've met 2 girls named "Lesbiana" >>
In Turkey when Attaturk took over from the Ottoman Empire they tried a census
which didn't work because half the population was called Mustapha and nobody
had a surname.
So they passed a law stating everyone had to have a surname (hence Attaturk -
means belonging to Turkey)
Imagine millions of people having to "choose" a surname. Best example I heard
was "Hero of the Revolution who killed at least 100 enemies of Turkey but,
humbly believes that he may have, with God's will, accounted for many more"

err no Land Rover content, but someone COULD have called themselves Mustapha
the owner of the best Land Rover in the world........

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Turbo Diesel

In a message dated 17/09/98 00:14:13 BST, you write:

<< Is it possible to fit a turbo charger to a LR diesel?  >>
Peter,

1, anything's possible (but is it wise?)

2. Land Rover (and others) will tell you that the n/a diesel is different from
the turbo'd version and therefore shouldn't be turboed.

3. There are a number of people in the UK who can, and have, put a turbo on a
standard diesel, to good effect.

4. In the UK at least, it is cheaper to simply buy a turbo diesel, swap
engines and sell the old lump.

5. If you want to do it, do it, and sod 'em!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Stereotypes (was fusing concepts) no

In a message dated 17/09/98 00:16:23 BST, you write:

  This would not have anything to do with the theory that they choose 
 the first name for Jury service would it....? >>
dunno

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:37:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Engine and gearbox ect...

In a message dated 17/09/98 04:47:46 BST, you write:

<< Can a person, with the use of local shops, and
 "genuine parts" do a top quality job that will last as long as the original
 one has?   >>
probably better if you take the time and trouble that a guy in a factory
cannot

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:36:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Erroneous fusing concepts

In a message dated 16/09/98 23:44:15 BST, you write:

<< I thought Lancashire gals were
 tough as nails? >>
you stereotyping again Adrian?
leaving aside Manchester which is or isn't Lancashire depending on yr view my
wife is a real Lancashire Lass and she (says) she's soft and cuddly.
 You'll be able to judge in October anyway....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110 CSW
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:51:47 +0200
Subject: I think Frank's in overrun...

Hi Frank - typing late at Elson Towers?

I thought I was a late bird - I cannot sleep because my e-mail keeps
pinging! By the time I have read the last six, the next six are here -
do you get paid by the column inch for this - or has that gone metric
too:-)

Glad to see you are awake and in rovering mode...

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
website				    www.channel6.dk
Visit the "Native Experience" project website at
http://www.channel6.dk/native

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:25:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Torque considerations 

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Matthew James Moore wrote:

:>                             A non-differenating diff, whether it be a
:> limited slip, a posi-trac, a detrioit locker-style thing, a real locker,
:> or a welded spool doesn't let the wheels rotate at different rates[1],

I inadvertantly left out the foot note, which is:

[1]  When they are locked, or have exceeded the limited-slip threshold.  

Sorry for any confusion caused.  the editor in charge of footnotes has
been shot.

David

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:35:48 EDT
Subject: Frankelson@aol.com

Today's Gold Star is for Frank Elson, our prolific journalist list member,
whose employer obviously doesn't give him enough pages in the magazine...

I'm just glad to see that the subject lines changed from one to the next...
nearly thought it was a bounced message...

--pat.

ps: Frank, do you ever think of just cutting and pasting text straight off the
list for your column? I's sure the people at LROI wouldn't notice, and think
of all the poor internet-deprived rover owners who don't get to partake in our
wit, humor and advice...

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:39:11 EDT
Subject: RE: Beginning of the end for LR??

In a message dated 9/17/98 8:14:18 PM, you wrote:

<<> Whoa, dude. I think the "Disco era" left your memory a bit off. D109?

Sorry.  I was typing a bit too fast...>>

Yup, either: typing too fast or importing with "Renewed Traditions"... ;-)
(Yes, Mr. Customs Agent, I swear it is a 73, it just has a "Defender-look"
front clip... ahem.)

--pat.

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:38:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Turbo

William Leacock wrote:
> > Is it possible to fir a turbo to a Land Rover diesel ?
>  Yes it is Rover did it back in the sixties and again in the eighties, not
> very sucesful on a three bearing crank, There are a few UK companikes that
> offer kits, Allard etc.

	 Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever put a turbo on a 2.25 petrol?
No I'm not going to, just wondering.

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88"

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From: Kirk Hillman <khillman@rttinc.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:57:52 -0700
Subject: Lockers and LSD's

    There seems to be some confusion as to the specifics of how locking
and limited slip differentials work.  I am not an expert, on the
contrary, I am not even well informed compared to many.  I have however
read a very well organized explanation on the subject.  I have found
more than one page devoted exclusively to correct misinformation on the
subject.  I won't go into the semantics, rather, here is the address and
you can judge for yourself:

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/diffs.htm

Regards,
Kirk D. Hillman
and the 'immovable object' 1966 SIIa SWB

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:09:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Lockers, broken axles, and Nigel's Disease

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Dr. Russ wrote:

:sound advice, but methinks the world is safe now (knock on brimabright).
:Nige hasn't busted a half shaft in, oh, at least three years (means he 
:might be due, I suppose).  Starter motors are his big thing now....ever
:since dumping his starter motor shaft's end nut into his bellhousing
:at the GP event...and I know he's got a few of you since then.

How do I keep my Land-Rover from giving my Toyota ideas?  Monday morning I
went to drive the Toy car to work, being late, as usual.  Hit the starter,
and got an odd whiring sound.  I thought it was a missing tooth or wo on
the ring gear, but couldn't get it to engage even pushing the car in gear.  
Took mr Sinclair to work.  When I came home, I pulled the starter from the
toyota, and discovered the little gear at the end was no longer much of a
gear.  40 minutes, and damm near 300 bucks(!) later it was replaced.  I
think the starter must be the only thing on the toyota which can be R&Red
(including the drive to the parts place) faster than on the Rover.

David

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From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:15:35 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: Series III Gearbox

Hi Scott

15 months ago I did mine.  I used the instructions located at;
http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/Landy/Series/Mech/SynchroClips.html

If it does not exist anymore I can snail-mail (series mail) the
instructions.

Piet
1955 S1
1980 RR

P.A.H. Fourie   ( pah@saao.ac.za )
South African Astronomical Observatory.
P.O. Box 25 Sutherland 6920 South Africa.
Tel 023 5711135. Fax 023 5711413

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:54:53 +1000
Subject: Frustrating Fuel Gauge

Mike Rogers wrote:
>Still the fuel gauge reads low with the engine running, so
>have I had two faulty units in a row or is there another cause
>that I have overlooked. HELP!

Mike.  two things, assuming you have the bimetllic strip voltage regulator.
(1) it must be properly earthed  (is it moving when you are driving and the
earthing faling?)

(2)  It must be mounted with its securing lug set vertically AND the fixing
hole downwards.

This info from my Hillman Hunter workshop manual.

Regards,
Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
'86 Range Rover 4.8L auto  "The Last Aquila"
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc auto
check my web site at www.users.bigpond.com/hillman

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:42:31 EDT
Subject: Re: "British Car" LR fact & fiction

Paul,

I mis-typed!

I don't believe that you can "save up" your cargo allowance, BUT - I do know,
that if you have several friends that haven't used theirs, YOU can have them
fill out their forms, and you can use their allowances in addition to yours!

Best ones I ever saw, were two Captains: one was shipping an engine for a
GT-40 to LHR ("...I swear, Inspector - I ONLY paid $350.00 for the
engine...It's NOT a real Shelby 289 - it just has the valve covers, and those
aren't real Webers!"), and the other one, was trying to ship one of those
tractor lawn-mowers! He refused to submit a Dangerous Goods form, even though
it had a battery, and gasoline! (it sat in the warehouse for 5 months until he
did)

What dept. are you in? I'm in the warehouse now, but I still handle Import
Tracings (the ugly ones that nobody else is willing to deal with!), and can be
found at LAXFYBA...after I come back from vacation in two weeks' time.

Charles
P.S....a 109 chassis placed at the top of a loaded PAG DOES fit inside a B-747
cargo bay! ( I measured it)

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:45:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Customs / Carnets...

FYI ---- If the lad importing his truck from Australia is still around here,
and is still having problems, I'd suggest contacting your local embassy, or
the U.S. State Department. They usually "fix" Carnet problems.

Charles

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From: Peter Thoren <Peter.Thoren@genetik.uu.se>
Date: 	Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:39:15 +0200
Subject: Michelin tyres

Thanks Adrian and Bill for your comments regarding Michelin X tyres. If I
understod you correctly Adrian, Michelin X is a tyre which is capable both
off and on road which suits me fine. I will surtenly buy these tyres. Would
it be wise, or even necessary to put tubes in them? They will be on
original 16" rims.

Thanks again,

Peter
Peter Thoren 
1975 109" SIII Diesel
Member #1379 Swedish Land Rover Club
Lεngmyrtorp
740 20 Vδnge
Sweden
phone/fax +46 18 39 20 56
peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se

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