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From: "Hastelow, Simon - DM/NT" <simon.hastelow@dailymail.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 11:58:00 PDT
Subject: NEW LRM

I've just bought Issue 2 of Landrover Magazine

I could get more if you want them - please reply

Its produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP

Simon WH
London UK

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:15:32 EDT
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

In a message dated 25/08/98 11:58:19 BST, you write:

<< ts produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP >>

no it isn't.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:15:32 EDT
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

In a message dated 25/08/98 11:58:19 BST, you write:

<< ts produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP >>

no it isn't.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Hastelow, Simon - DM/NT" <simon.hastelow@dailymail.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 13:10:00 PDT
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

In the first issue I'm sure the opening blurb went into lengthy detail about 
how they have been contractualy obliged to stay out of the Landrover 
Magazine business for a period of time after the sale of LRO.

I gave my copy to someone else so cannot check but I stand corrected if you 
know otherwise.

Simon WH
London UK

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:25:16 EDT
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

In a message dated 8/25/98 7:16:31 AM, you wrote:

<< ts produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP >>

no it isn't.....>>

That's odd. On the last day of Greek Peek, after marshalling my group for the
RTV was done, I saw a man and a woman with Journalist's tags on wandering down
the hill, so I gave them a ride to the bottom. Found out they were behind Land
Rover Monthly, and asked *why on earth publish another LR magazine?* most of
the conversation then was about how part of the contractual obligation of
selling LRO was not to publish any competing magazine for X months. How
factually true that is, is only as good as their credibility as upstanding
members of the British Press (Insert headline here: Spice Girls Grow Extra Eye
in Third Arm!!!)  ;-)

They brought a short stack for us to look at, but didn't have enough to give
away. I wasn't able to go over afterwards to have a look.

How does the mag look compared to the two regular ones? What's on Page 3?

--pat.

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From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:36:26 +1000
Subject: Rust in Series III

Ron wrote:
>there is rust in the sill area directly below the rear doors  - i.e. the
>doors on the side, not the very rear door.  I'm not sure what area one
would
;>call it but is it hard to cut this area out and repair it?

TeriAnn Wakeman replied:

>Ron from your discription I would call it the rear frame member.  If it
>is REAL bad, you can  pruchase a rear frame section, cut off the old
>section and weld a new one in.

Dunno, Teri Anne.  The rust appears to be in the floor, or the edge of the
floor that is under the middle doors.  It doesn't look like frame - assuming
that by frame you mean the chassis. Imagine, if you will, that section of
the bodywork directly below the middle door lower edge.  It is the section
directly above the removable aluminium sill.

>Rear  frame crossmembers are prone to rust because it collects
>mud thrown  up from the rear wheels and people don't clean it off after a
run.

The rear crossmember looks good.
>.
>Good luck with your new project.
It may not happen.  This Series III LWB SW has some of the straightest
panels I've seen for quite a while and the interior has been reupholstered.
The chassis looks rust free and very clean, it has a GM Holden 6-cyl 186ci
or 202ci engine and the owner wants only US$870 (yep - Eight Hundred and
Seventy US Dollars) or A$1,500 for it.

BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!

Mick Forster wrote:

>On the station wagon/ Safari the front doors hang on a door post that is
part of
the side frame that goes under the middle doors and then up at an angle to
be
riveted to the rear body.On mine these frame had to be renewed, they fell
apart
when I tried to dismantle them.>

<Is this the area you are concerned with?

Yes, it sounds like it.  Like the top middle picture, lndy1f.jpg, just where
your spanners are in the back.

It never ceases to amaze me what you British will restore.  I'd dump a
vehicle with that much rust.  I commend you upon your tenacity.

Best Regards,
Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
'86 Range Rover 4.8L auto  "The Last Aquila"
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc auto
check my web site at www.users.bigpond.com/hillman

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From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:38:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Jumping out of Fourth Gear, SIIa

>I suspect that it happens on overrun. I had the same problem in my SIII. I
>was sorted out by replacing the 3/4 synchro unit. The only problem was
>getting the mechanic to understand what I meant. After he had pulled the
>gearbox and replaced it twice I demonstrated what the problem was.
>Donald

Yeah, I was thinking it might be a problem with the synchro. How big a deal is
it to replace? That is, if the mechanic can figure it out?

Peter

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From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:38:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Jumping out of Fourth Gear, SIIa

>So, you've got a "Mexican Overdrive"... Automatically puts it in Neutral for
>the downhills to save gas.
>--pat.

So, this is one of those hidden Land Rover features like the self oiling
frame?

peter

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:16:57 +0000
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

><< ts produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP >>
>no it isn't.....
Ayup! Another of Franks Kryptic Komments.Go on then........

Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: "Hastelow, Simon - DM/NT" <simon.hastelow@dailymail.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 14:25:00 PDT
Subject: Metric - Imperial conversions

I know this kind of discussion appears from time to time but;

1 UK gallon = 4.56 litres
1 US gallon = 3.85 litres
1 US quart = 0.95 litres

current UK fuel prices are;

66p litre - unleaded

67p litre - 
diesel

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From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:17:51 -0600
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

At 08:25 AM 25/08/98 EDT, SPYDERS@aol.com, wrote

>How does the mag look compared to the two regular ones? What's on Page 3?

I came across a copy of the first issue last week.  On page three the
publisher, Cathie Howell-Thomas, says in part; 

        "The story begins in July 1987 with the creation of the very first
Land Rover         magazine.  .  .  .  . Exactly seven years later the title
was sold to a multi national         publisher.  With the sale came a
restriction on some of the original team which has         meant that we
have been unable until now, to join together again to bring to you
what we believe will soon become the best of the bunch." 

The first issue had many of the same advertisers as the other magazines,
using the same ad layouts, several features about LR's past and present
doing stuff, and not a whole lot on fixing up bodged Series vehicles.  On
the basis of that first issue I personally won't be bothering however I will
flip through the subsequent issues to see how it shapes up.

I'd love to continue this but I'm off this morning on a job in the eastern
arctic.  As far as I know, and I've looked and asked around a lot, it must
be the only part of the world where land rovers have never tread.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

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From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:41:25 +0100
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

Mike Rooth wrote:

> ><< ts produced by the original LRO team before it was sold to EMAP >>
> >no it isn't.....
> Ayup! Another of Franks Kryptic Komments.Go on then........

I found the LRM not different enough to subscribe to (had a LROI
subscription for my birthday!) but no doubt will check the news stand each
month.

What's the true story Frank?

Mick Forster
1972 109" Safari 2.25 petrol
1963 88" IIA 2.25 petrol
Very sad Metro :-(  now with a busted water pump!
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
http://members.aol.com/Tony4star/

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:54:43 EDT
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

In a message dated 25/08/98 13:10:12 BST, you write:

<<  I stand corrected if you 
 know otherwise. >>

just being pedantic - having been offered a job with them. In fact Richard
Howell-Thomas was the Editor of LRO before the sale and is now owner and
Editor of LRM. None of the others were involved in LRO so it's a 'he' not a
'they'.
Richard, a good friend of mine, is stretching a point.....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:46:10 -0400
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

I had a subscription to LROI until they shorted my subscription by 6
months.

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:03:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Metric - Imperial conversions

In a message dated 25/08/98 14:25:06 BST, you write:

 66p litre - unleaded
 
 67p litre - 
 diesel >>

Where'd you live, Simon??

locally (East Lancashire) I'm paying 63p litre for my diesel and 64 litre for
my wife's unleaded. How come she loans me her car when the tank is low :-(>
(ps) some houses for sale nearby.....:-)>

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: "Axel HAAKONSEN"<axel_haakonsen@hsbcsecuritiesinc.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:04:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Last word on TeriAnn's diesel...TW

<< in the UK($1 + per liter). I'm pretty sure the conversion rate is 3.2>>
<< liters per gallon.>>

<<Depneds if it's an Imperial gallon or a U.S. Gallon.  Imperial>> 
<<gallon is 4.5 Liters>> 

And a U.S. gallon is 3.7854 liters.

Last time I spoke to my sister in Norway, we figured out that she was paying
about $4 per US gallon.  (And about $25,000 for her new Skoda, which from what I
understand is one of the most inexpensive cars you can buy, but that is another
story.)

Axel Haakonsen, NJ
97 Disco

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 09:28:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Rust in Series III

>Ron wrote:
;>>there is rust in the sill area directly below the rear doors  - i.e. 
the
;>>doors on the side, not the very rear door.  I'm not sure what area one
;>would
;>;>call it but is it hard to cut this area out and repair it?

One of these years, hopfully I'll learn to comprehend all that I read.  
Sory I thought you were refering to the rear door.  The thingie you are 
talking about is usually called the inverted'T' post. New ones are 
readilly available.

Sorry for the misunderstanding 

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Thomas Spoto <tspoto@az.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:26:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Last word on TeriAnn's diesel...TW

Dale Smith wrote:

>  I'm pretty sure the conversion rate is 3.2
> liters per gallon.
> Smitty

3.78 liters to the U.S. Gallon

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 09:36:28 -0700
Subject: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

>BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!

NEVER take no on a potential purchase for a final answer  until you 
really understand why the no was said.

Living/loving relationships are always full of compromises to make each 
party happy.  Generally when a Woman says no about a man's potential 
purchase there is an underlying reason that may have lots of room for 
negotiation.

If you really can not afford it without the family suffering there is 
probably no room for negotiation.  

If you have been purchasing a long string of goodies for yourself and 
leaving her without goodies; if the two of you have been doing everything 
your way for a while or if you have been spending most of your time off 
doing your thing then she is probably placing a stake in the ground that 
says this is it, no more until we achieve a balance point.  If it is this 
kind of no, best forget the car and spend some time learning how to 
balance a relationship so that both parties are happy.

The easy one to handle is when there is spare money and you haven't been 
spending all your time & money on yourself.  Here the bottom line is 
balance.  Balance in your time and the family money.  

Politely ask her why she said no. If it is a time or whom is spending 
money on whom thing ask her what she would like to see.  It could be that 
this is something that is bothering her at a deep level and she hasn't 
taken the time to articulate it to herself yet.  Offer her some things 
she likes.  Maybe it is a cruise together.  Maybe it is a nice vacation 
by herself with you taking care of any kids & all the responsibilities.  
Maybe every time you purchase something FOR YOURSELF, there should be an 
equal amount of money deposited into a bank account that is specifically 
for her to spend on herself and NOT to be spent on family related things.

Bottom line is that relationships are a balance where both people are 
giving what the other wants.  If one partner feels that the other partner 
is out for themselves and doesn't care what the other partner wants you 
will have trouble and seemingly illogical "nos"

Find out why your partner feels that your potential purchase will bring 
the relationship out of balance then see if there is a way to keep a 
relationship balance in the minds of both people and purchase the car too.

"Seek first to understand THEN to be understood"

Good Luck

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

At 09:36 AM 8/25/98 -0700, TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com> wrote:
>BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!
>NEVER take no on a potential purchase for a final answer  until you 
>really understand why the no was said.
>Living/loving relationships are always full of compromises to make each 
>party happy.  Generally when a Woman says no about a man's potential 
>purchase there is an underlying reason that may have lots of room for 
>negotiation.

 Geeeez TeriAnn....

 We've been programmed to understand that when a woman
 says NO, she means "NO!".

-Michael "ready to be reprogrammed" Carradine

 ;)

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:03:52 -0400
Subject: Thermo questions

 Nate <NADdMD@aol.com> wrote:
>My questions are:
>1.  If the water temp gauge reads high but the radiator coolant temp is
>175 F, what are the possibilities?

Having just gone this route (and by talking about it, possibily invoked
Nigel's Disease), it may be that the new sending unit and old gauge aren't
exactly compatible.  If sending unit, thermostat and voltage stabilizer are
new, unless one is faulty out of the box, you've covered most of the bases
already.

>B. Could this be caused by a partially opening thermostat?  (Holding my
>finger in the radiator cap opening I can feel when the thermostat is
>starting to open)

Remove the thermostat and place it in a pan of water.  Observe the opening
as you raise the temperature.  Use a meat or candy thermometer.

>THIRD.  Since I've replaced the voltage stabilizer this year and the
>thermostat and sending unit 2 years ago, what are my culprits here? ( I
>assume the radiator is ok since the coolant temp in the radiator is where
>it should be with the thermostat open)

Mine is doing much the same thing...only that the temp is spot on at 165 F.
 Tell me and we'll both know.... ;-)  Probably the most likely answer is
increased resistance in the wire.  I've noticed that many of mine have that
green cupric oxide color where the ends wern't entirely sealed or soldered.

>FINALLY.  Should I just pull the thermostat and run it to see what that does?

No.  The cooling system requires a certain amount of back pressure offered
by the thermostat to get coolant circulating around #4 cylinder properly.
Without the thermostat's restriction, coolant tends to "short circuit" and
#4 cooks.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 10:24:51 -0700
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

>At 09:36 AM 8/25/98 -0700, TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com> wrote:
'>>BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!
'>>NEVER take no on a potential purchase for a final answer  until you 
'>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 8 lines)]
'>>purchase there is an underlying reason that may have lots of room for 
'>>negotiation.
'>
'> Geeeez TeriAnn....
'>
'> We've been programmed to understand that when a woman
'> says NO, she means "NO!".
'>
'>-Michael "ready to be reprogrammed" Carradine
'>
'> ;)

If the no has something to do with sex believe no is no.

If it has something to do with balance in a relationship there is almost 
always room for negotiation as long as you understand the REAL reason 
behind the no decision and are willing to give before you take.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:28:53 -0700
Subject: One type of litre to two types of gallons...

FWIW conversion rate for litres to gallons is:

3.9 litres to 1 US Gallon
4.54 litres to 1 Imperial (rest of world) Gallon.

Back to my spreadsheets...

Paul in Victoria.

[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 > From:	Dale Smith 
[SMTP:smithdv1@yahoo.com]

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:33:01 -0700
Subject: RE: NEW LRM

I just picked up issue one (takes a long time to reach Victoria) of LRM.
Seems like it could be a decent magazine.  I love the picture of the Landies
(Series ones?) doing an around the buoys race  on page 57.  Completely
submerged right up to the top of the wind screen with the driver and nav
officer standing up with lifejackets on.  Big air snorkel.  Must have been a
publicity stunt for the introduction of the diesel or something...?

Paul in Victoria.

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From: BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:40:41 -0400
Subject: First Drive

There seems to be a rash of first drives reported lately so I thought I'd
add mine to the list.

For the first time since I bought my '65 88" hard top in May of last year,
I have driven the beast to work today.  Previously, I never ventured out of
my neighborhood for fear of being stranded or endangering the lives of my
fellow citizens who are driving vehicles that actually feature functional
brakes.  But I've gotten the major bugs out, and I am proud to say that on
the way into work this morning she chugged all the way here without dying
once.

Over the past year I have rebuilt the Zenith twice, installed a completely
new exhaust system from the head back, installed a new alternator (one that
had a regulator unlike the one the P.O. had on there) flushed every fluid,
rebuilt or replaced every master and slave cylinder, replaced two hub oil
seals, one pinion seal, and two swivel ball seals, replaced the fuel lines,
changed two U-joints, replaced the rear springs, rebuilt the oil pump,
replaced all shocks, and welded on a new galvanized rear crossmember.  So
far the only thing I've done cosmetically is cover the largest of the holes
in the rhino-hide seats with duct tape.  You can tell I'm an engineer.

I have posted quite a few questions (and the odd smart-ass reply) here over
the last year or so.  Most memorable perhaps was my request to the list to
post the measurements of your dipstick.  The more creative amoung us had
fun with that one.

But for the most part I've gotten some excellent information, insight, and
entertainment from this list.  Last weekend I met a fellow lister up in
Knoxville who was giving away some free parts.  We had a great time talking
Rovers and discussing his rebuild- which is a very nice 88" newly painted
Camel Trophy Yellow.  The parabolic springs blew my mind- you can literally
bounce that vehicle up and down with one finger.  The fact that he's
finishing his frameup as we speak so he can drive it to Montana middle of
this week is a testament to...well, I'm not sure what it's a testament to
but you sure do meet some interesting people while fixing up a Land Rover.
Joseph- If you've gotten it rolling yet, let's hear about it.

Since I got my truck the restoration effort has passed through every stage
of a major psychological event.  First there was denial- I kept thinking I
would have it running in two weeks, and it took me a while to accept the
fact that I had some serious restoration work to do before that would
happen.  Then depression- for a brief period I considered boxing it up and
selling it as is.  I was getting married, traveling, working more- getting
out into the garage to work on the truck was becoming a chore.  But finally
I moved into acceptance.  I came to understand the Zen state that can be
achieved when one tackles the job at hand with the right attitude and
modest goals (see the recent post on Gumption from Persig).  And now I'm
just thrilled that I made it all the way to work without having to walk at
all.  Part of the value of ownership, I have found, is taking pleasure in
the simple things.

So- if you see a topless green 88" cruising around Maryville, Tennessee-
give me a wave.

Ben

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From: D110LR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:48:10 EDT
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

<<If the no has something to do with sex believe no is no.>>

But if it has to do with Land Rovers, No means Maybe? Hmmmm.

This is just begging for a thread *Why Land Rovers are like Sex* (With
apologies to the creators of the "why a beer is like..." series of t-shirts.)

1. Once you've had it for a while, you really miss not having it...
2. Clean oil can prolong your enjoyment of it...
3. You can enjoy both, together (in a LWB, that is)...
4. There's always someone who wants to know where to get it and how much it
costs...
5. If you keep it up, it looks better...

Unfortunately, having it doesn't guarantee the other.

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:54:24 -0700
Subject: *Why Land Rovers are like Sex* 

You forgot to mention the really hard ride...
...and what type of rubber you're using
...and the length of your dipstick (hi Ben)

I'll shut up now.

Paul.

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: LRM

I hope that LRM will atleast have an interesting article on the final page,
unlike LRO that's stuck with old what's his name..... ;)

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: NEW LRM

>I had a subscription to LROI until they shorted my subscription by 6
>months.

That's odd; mine was extended by 6 months....

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:10 -0500
Subject: RE: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Only slightly less rover content)

> Unfortunately, having it doesn't guarantee the other.

I tell you though... If you find a girl who loves your rover, you've
found a keeper.

Seriously, though, there are lots of girls that would be less than
thrilled to going out on a date in one of those things... Have you
ever seen "The Gods Must Be Crazy" (are there any rover owners
who haven't? that should be the instuctional video that comes with
a series rover) I love the scene where he's carrying that girl to
wherever she's going, and he has to explain every little thing that
goes wrong with it...

 -Scott

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:27:31 -0500
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO. Sob! (Only slightly less rover content) 

In message <bulk.24808.19980825111808@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
  
> > Unfortunately, having it doesn't guarantee the other.
> I tell you though... If you find a girl who loves your rover, you've
> found a keeper.

	Especially if she thinks that the smell of gear oil is romantic. 
Right rd/nige?

> Seriously, though, there are lots of girls that would be less than
> thrilled to going out on a date in one of those things... 

	In college I once took a couple of girls to a waltz in my Series III
88".  They were espeically amused when I had had to jump out in my suit and 
chock Dora before she rolled down the hill.  

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:39:41 -0400
Subject: My wife says YES!

Bless her heart, she bought the truck for me as a 5th wedding anniversary 
gift. 
( Only a few short weeks after the words "no more antique vehicles!" came 
spilling from her lips)

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:41:32 -0400
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

See now thats not what we wanted to hear; what ever happened to "no" meaning
"beg me"  or "how bad do you want it" .. The world just isn't as nice as it
use to be . When the  games end what do we play?
Chris "V"

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:39:47 EDT
Subject: Re: My wife says YES!

In a message dated 8/25/98 2:36:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, badams@usia.gov
writes:

<< Bless her heart, she bought the truck for me as a 5th wedding anniversary 
 gift.  >>

Congrats on that Bill.   Hope you can reciprocate the surprise.  God knows she
deserves it!

Nate

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From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:41:27 EDT
Subject: Re: First Drive

In a message dated 98-08-25 13:42:31 EDT, you write:

<< rhino-hide seats  >>

Is there a part # for Rhino Hide? Just kidding.

Just remmember Ben, you haven't made it home yet. 

Steve 

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From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:43:28 EDT
Subject: Re: My wife says YES!

In a message dated 98-08-25 14:36:10 EDT, you write:

 Bless her heart, she bought the truck for me as a 5th wedding anniversary 
 gift. 
 ( Only a few short weeks after the words "no more antique vehicles!" came 
 spilling from her lips) >>

We all hate you, Bill. We all hate you. 

Steve (Grumpy Smurf) 

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From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:46:19 EDT
Subject: white 109 that was FS at Greek Peak

All,

     There was a white 109 pickup with the canvas back for sale at Greek Peak
and I didn't get a chance to talk to the guy (or girl) who was selling it.
Anyone, anyone,... 

Steve

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From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:00:38 -0400
Subject: Re: My wife says YES!

Now there is a Keeper! (and I thought a winch made them keepers) I'll have
to re-evaluate my scale.
Chris "V"

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:18:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: white 109 that was FS at Greek Peak

>All,
>     There was a white 109 pickup with the canvas back for sale at Greek Peak
>and I didn't get a chance to talk to the guy (or girl) who was selling it.
>Anyone, anyone,...

Maybe it was Jon Humphrey from Pittsburgh????  Try contacting him at

           landrovr@usaor.net

good luck

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Jeffrey Jackson" <jcjcj88@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:52:39 -0400
Subject: Soundproofing

Re: Last week's discussion of soundproofing.

I just finished installing JC Whitney's aluminum-backed soundproofing in my
SIII 88.  I chose the Whitney product because I rode in an SIII at GP which
had it in the engine bay (inc. bonnet) and over the driveline; the
difference between this car and mine was amazing.  Much more civilized, no
earplugs required.  I could have easily heard the radio, if there had been
one.

The material had been in place for over a year and had held up well - it
still looked new.  It's 1/2" thick fibrous mat with an aluminum backing
(crosshatched with a ripstop material.)

I waited to write this until I had finished installing it, lest I direct
anyone to a nightmarish job.   The good news is that it was fairly easy.
It took about 10 hrs or so to install, and I put in much more than the other
fellow since I'll be commuting a good distance for the next year.  Besides
the engine bay and bonnet, I applied it to the inside of the bulkhead below
the dash, inside of footwells, floorboards, seatbox, door panels and the
tub.   A lightweight auto-grade carpet will go over that, using double-sided
tape for fairly easy removal.   The soundproofing material would not be too
hard to take out - just messy.  Shouldn't be a concern, though, because you
can roll it back to expose floorboard fasteners, etc. (I laid it in sections
over each "piece" of the interior).

One 24'X4' roll was needed, along with a roll of aluminum tape for seams and
two cans of their adhesive.  $117 US, inc. shipping.  Tape measure, good
pair of scissors and a bit of patience are all the tools you'll need.

The drawback:  I will probably avoid any water crossings deeper than the
sills.   Unless someone double-dares me.

Jeff Jackson (no ties to Whitney, yadda yadda....)
73 SIII "88" (which no longer stands for the dB level)

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:00:11 EDT
Subject: Re: LRM

In a message dated 25/08/98 19:15:50 BST, you write:

<< I hope that LRM will atleast have an interesting article on the final page,
 unlike LRO that's stuck with old what's his name..... ;)
  >>
ingrate

anon

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:00:08 EDT
Subject: Re: First Drive

In a message dated 25/08/98 18:42:31 BST, you write:

<< And now I'm
 just thrilled that I made it all the way to work without having to walk at
 all.  Part of the value of ownership, I have found, is taking pleasure in
 the simple things. >>

Ben,
I'm really glad for you, many of us have been there to a greater or lesser
extent, and that feeling of victory, of completeness, cannot be overstated.
I detect, on the mainly US lists a partition of kinds between series and the
later coillers. Here in the UK we've got coilers that are really old - in fact
there are Ser111 newer (only by a year or so) than my 1983 110. So we feel we
are more in it together.
I've just completed a couple of months helping my friend rebuild his Ser11
Lightweight. I feel good about it but the other day my wife and I saw him
drive past, hood down, white cap on (he didn;t see us) and a grin a mile wide.
Owning a Land Rover is a Zen thing.... I say, the day I park it, walk away and
DON'T turn to look at it once, is when I give up.
Enjoy while you can - it'll break down soon anyway!!!!!

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:00:14 EDT
Subject: Re: My wife says YES!

In a message dated 25/08/98 19:44:36 BST, you write:

  Bless her heart, she bought the truck for me as a 5th wedding anniversary 
  gift. 
  ( Only a few short weeks after the words "no more antique vehicles!" came 
  spilling from her lips) >>
 
 We all hate you, Bill. We all hate you.  >>

I showed my wife your message. Now she hates your wife.......

Best Cheers

Frank (leaving copies of LRO open at the classified adverts all over the
house)
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:22:51 -0600
Subject: Off Road FAQ's

Hi all-found this site Via the Rovers north BBS

http://www.off-road.com/~mike/ordfaqs.html

Good info for use when off the tarmac

Art

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:26:44 -0600
Subject: OOPS!!

made a boo-boo!

The correct site is http://www.off-road.com/~mike/index.html

Sorry about that!!

Art

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From: Carl Petter Swensson <cepe@online.no>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:10:43 +0200
Subject: Fairey Overdive, installation and usage

I am buying a used overdrive. Does anyone have pointers to any dokuments
on how to/how not to install an overdrive in a '79 SIII diesel. Any
hints on how to use it/how to misuse it would also be appreciated. 

Regards,

Carl

P.S. I am new to these strange vehicles, but I like them.
-- 
Carl P. Swensson	internet: cepe@online.no	
			telephone: +47-928 937 40
I speak for myself. I will tell you when I speak for someone else

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:52:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Fairey Overdive, installation and usage

Carl (or Karl? ) missed that....

I have the Fairey manual scanned and on my system. if you'd like it tell
me, but be warned - it is a LARGE file.

                    Alan R.

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:42:56 +1000
Subject: tyre pressures

High tyre pressures (within reason)  cut rolling resistance on the black
top but do not allow the tyre to flex off-road.  This can cause sharp rocks
or sticks to more easily stake the tread of the tyre.  When the tyre is
softer it flexes to absorb the sharp object but the flexing alows the
sidewalls to bulge (the weakest part of the tyre) axposing them to stakes -
particularly from sticks

Depending on the tread pattern the softer tyre can alow the tyres to flex
actually throwing out the mud (depending on the tread pattern) softer tyres
alow them to bulge inwardly in the centre of the tread helping floatation
over things like sand (thats why if you run them too soft on the road you
where out the outer parts of the tread whilst if too hard the centre of the
traed wheres too fast0

In reality the 'ideal' pressure depends upon a number of things:
the weight of the vehicle
the type of ground
the probability and type of hazards
the type of tyre
the 'strength' of tyre - load rateing, flexibility etc
tyre pressure

but these are probably all less important than the skill of the driver, and
the skill of the driver is often significantly influenced by the driver's
appropriate level of confidence - ie if you genuinely think you have your
tyres right to help you through then thats probably going to go further
than if you had them adjusted a few pounds either way to be 100%
scientificall correct!

Of course all the above excludes the extremes which in fact may present a
genuine danger (80 psi on a swb with cross ply tyres may fall into that
catagory)

Just my opinion based on 15 years of observation of Landy drivers

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From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:50:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Soundproofing

Jeff,
Do you know if they make a similar material for waterproof installations? I
use a material that sounds very similar to what you used years ago on my '61
MGA on the fire wall and transmission tunnel to quell the excessive heat.
But I was hesitant to put it on the D90 because of it's affinity to water.
Chris "V"

>Re: Last week's discussion of soundproofing.
>I just finished installing JC Whitney's aluminum-backed soundproofing in my

>The drawback:  I will probably avoid any water crossings deeper than the
>sills.   Unless someone double-dares me.

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From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:20:03 -0400
Subject: Source for random fastners on LRs?

  Anyone have a source for all the types of fasteners on LRs in the US? The
UNF is easy, but I'm having the hardest time finding BSF fasteners. Any
tips? Most LR parts houses don't stock too much of the little items (eg.
swivel seal retainer bolts)... I'm tempted to drill and tap to SAE, but in
the case of the swivel seal retainer, the housing's already mounted and
doing said job, would be rather inconvenient.

Jeff Goldman
Boston, MA

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:47:59 -0400
Subject: Liter - Gallon conversion

> I'm pretty sure the conversion rate is 3.2
> liters per gallon.

It's about 3.8 liters per US gallon. Source: new "gallon per flush"
water closets and urinals. It's printed on the outside.

David Cockey

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 17:22:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Source for random fastners on LRs?

>  Anyone have a source for all the types of fasteners on LRs in the US? The
;>UNF is easy, but I'm having the hardest time finding BSF fasteners. Any
;>tips? Most LR parts houses don't stock too much of the little items (eg.
;>swivel seal retainer bolts)... I'm tempted to drill and tap to SAE, but 
in
;>the case of the swivel seal retainer, the housing's already mounted and
;>doing said job, would be rather inconvenient.

I recently replaced a bent steering stop bolt with a new one I got from 
British Pacific.  I assume that if they have the long swivel seal 
retainer bolt that they would have the short one too.  Its a free call to 
check.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: LRM

>In a message dated 25/08/98 19:15:50 BST, you write:
><< I hope that LRM will atleast have an interesting article on the final page,
> unlike LRO that's stuck with old what's his name..... ;)
>ingrate

I was really just checking to see if the ticker was still ticking and you
were paying attention.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:54:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Liter - Gallon conversion

At 07:47 PM 8/25/98 -0400, David Cockey wrote:
: > I'm pretty sure the conversion rate is 3.2
: > liters per gallon.
:It's about 3.8 liters per US gallon. Source: new "gallon per flush"
:water closets and urinals. It's printed on the outside.

 3.7854 liters per gallon
 Source: HP-32S-II Calculator

-Michael

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:26:35 EDT
Subject: Cooling "Problem" Solved

Hi all,

I decided to try some additional trouble shooting...

After starting it up, I allowed it to run until the temp gauge started to move
(about 45 seconds) and checked the engine and radiator. --> Barely warm enough
to know the engine had been on.  The gauge had gone to midway up the white
square

With this, I suspected the sending unit.

I replaced it with an old one from a SIIa engine which is just sitting in want
of attention.  Started up the engine and put my hand on the top hose to see
when it started to get warm (inaccurate, but indicator of when thermostat has
started to divert coolant to the radiator) after about 5 minutes, I could feel
warmth at the base of the hose.  Check of the gauge showed it to start up into
the white area.  When the hose was fully warm, the gauge was 3/4 of the way up
the white square.

The old sending unit (the one which slowly moves) is 13/16 socket size and the
probe end is maybe 1/4 inch long.
The new unit (the one which "overheats") is 5/8 socket size and the probe end
is about 7/8 inch long.

I suspect the new unit is NOT calibrated to the SIIa gauge/stabilizer.  I'll
test this on the drive in tomorrow.

Nate
Coolant "expert"

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From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:40:46 -0700
Subject: Re: First Drive

BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com wrote:
> There seems to be a rash of first drives reported lately so I thought I'd
> add mine to the list.

 I guess I gotta add mine to the list as well. First time in a '98 Disco 
today. Wife was out shopping and happened to drop by work in this Disco. 
She'd been out for the day with it and fell in love with it. Sort of 
surprised me it did. Got to drive it home (about 40km) and get the feel 
of it. She picked it up at the car-rent-it place and it had to be back 
next day, so I only had tonight to play in it. So, I drop her off at a 
friends and take two of my young lads for a ride. "No scratches or mud on 
it, you hear?!" "Yeah, right", I sez.
     On the way to another friends to show him the Disco, I spy a few 
little side roads that were calling my name. The boys warned me that to 
listen to the devil and take the side road is not half as bad as what 
Mom's going to do to me if I do. Pretty good reasoning I guess. Well, I 
arrive at Tom's place and we go for a ride. Now there is this little wee 
bit of a steep path off the road that called to me. Very short, but I 
could lock her down and play. So, a bit of playing on this, not bad, try 
HR4 in reverse and a bit sluggish, so I give her a good 'ole shot and pop 
back out on the path. Jeez's, someones put a mail box there since we went 
down here. You guessed it. The mailbox is harder than the paint. Oh well, 
could have been worse, could've been a mailman, ( and we all know not to 
piss mailmen off!)
      So I drive Tom back, and he asks what the truck is worth. I tell 
him about 52K, and he says "Not with all those scratches it ain't" Ok, 
now he's starting in on me already. I asked if he wanted to drive, but he 
didn't, knowing I'll blame him for the scratches. So then I blame Nick 
for sitting back there, with a hat on., but he doesn't take the bait and 
says it was my fault. I could have probably got away with it when he was 
7 or 8, but at 17 he's starting to wise up. 
      Well, I got the old girl home, tried to cover up the scratches, but 
 that spray paint was interior, not exterior. NO, No, just kidding, but 
black marker was a thought. Oh well, good thing Rose took out insurance 
on for just this kinda thing!!

  Not so happy,  

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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From: kiotee@mcn.net (Roy Caldwell)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:59:43 -1000
Subject: Re: First Drive

Where in Montana is your friend driving to?  Or better yet, who on the list
is heading this direction?  I am here in Helena.  There are a few of us
Rover type people up here in the Big Sky Country.

Big Sky Country

Where the men drive Rovers and the Jeeps are nervous!

Roy

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:06:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Liter - Gallon conversion

>At 07:47 PM 8/25/98 -0400, David Cockey wrote:
>: > I'm pretty sure the conversion rate is 3.2
>: > liters per gallon.
>:It's about 3.8 liters per US gallon. Source: new "gallon per flush"
>:water closets and urinals. It's printed on the outside.
> 3.7854 liters per gallon
> Source: HP-32S-II Calculator

I'll stick with the urinal's story.  I have a more personal day-to-day
relationship with a urinal than I seem to have with a calculator.  I gotta
tell ya, the urinal has always been there for me, never let me down, and I
just don't see any reason to doubt the urinal's story.  Calculators always
seem to be such
"know-it-alls"....a real pain to be around for long periods of time. THe
Urinal on the other hand is a more friendly, trustworthy sort.  The kind
that you don't mind spending time with now and then.  That's my story and
I'm sticking to it..

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Liter - Gallon conversion

At 08:06 PM 8/25/98 -0700, Russ Wilson and/or Leslie Bittner wrote:
:>
:>> 3.7854 liters per gallon
:>> Source: HP-32S-II Calculator
:>
:>I'll stick with the urinal's story.  I have a more personal day-to-day
:>relationship with a urinal....  That's my story and
:>I'm sticking to it..
:>
:>Russ Wilson
:>Leslie Bittner

 So Leslie, tell us how you manage.

 Nah...  please don't!

-Michael

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From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:01:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Rust in Series III (apologies)

The Becketts wrote:

> >On the station wagon/ Safari the front doors hang on a door post that is
> part of

Oops, sorry pardon, I meant the middle doors honest,
then TeriAnn apologises for confusion, I can't even write right ..........

Mick Forster

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:55:15 +0000
Subject: Re: First Drive

 I say, the day I park it, walk away and
>DON'T turn to look at it once, is when I give up.
Funny,ennit Frank.I've had the 88" 11 years now,and I *still* like
to park it where I can see it from the office window..

Cheers

Mike Rooth

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