L-R Mailing Lists 1948-1998 Land Rover's 50th Anniversary

Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 SPYDERS@aol.com 20Re: Big Skies
2 SPYDERS@aol.com 15Re: First Drive
3 Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa30When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
4 Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa8[not specified]
5 Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa8[not specified]
6 "Chris Velardi" [tchris@12Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
7 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M33Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
8 "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" 26Overdrives and otherwise
9 Peter Goundry [peterg@ai10Conversion Factors
10 Joel Baskin [joebas@symi15RE: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
11 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema42Fwd: BP going to Portland - commercial content
12 Adrian Redmond [channel635Oily front brakes
13 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema47Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
14 Thomas Spoto [tspoto@az.19Differential Number
15 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema56Re: Oily front brakes
16 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema23Re: Differential Number
17 Zaxcoinc@aol.com 24Re: Oily front brakes
18 "Jason B. Carroll" [carr13Re: Soundproofing
19 David Scheidt [david@inf29Re: Oily front brakes
20 Casey McMullen [st93wxta37Re: Oily front brakes
21 Adrian Redmond [channel615Oily front brakes... yes but...
22 SPYDERS@aol.com 21Re: Re: Oily front brakes
23 David Scheidt [david@inf22Re: Oily front brakes
24 David Scheidt [david@inf20Re: Oily front brakes... yes but...
25 "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" 21[not specified]
26 "Ray Burton" [Ray_Burton15Re: BUT my wife says NO. Sob! (Almost no Rover content)
27 MRogers315@aol.com 18Only one Land Rover
28 Thomas Spoto [tspoto@az.16Re: Differential Number
29 Vaughn Jacobs [vaughnjac281969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
30 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema44Website updated
31 "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" 14RE: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
32 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema27Re: Oily front brakes... yes but...
33 "Piet Fourie 15Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)
34 "Piet Fourie 31Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
35 TeriAnn Wakeman [twakema47Re: Oily front brakes
36 Frankelson@aol.com 21Re: LRM
37 Ian Harper/Donna-Claire 23Series 3 For Sale
38 Frankelson@aol.com 24Re: Oily front brakes
39 Frankelson@aol.com 16Re:
40 Frankelson@aol.com 20Re: First Drive
41 Frankelson@aol.com 21Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
42 Frankelson@aol.com 18Re: Only one Land Rover
43 Adrian Redmond [channel689Re: Oily front brakes
44 Jarvis64@aol.com 15Jumping out of fourth gear
45 Jarvis64@aol.com 12Waxoyl and welding
46 SPYDERS@aol.com 12Re: Re: Oily front brakes
47 IBEdwardp@aol.com 24Re: First Drive
48 "William L. Leacock" [wl12Temp gauge calibration.
49 GElam30092@aol.com 13Tightening nuts.... no lr content
50 Russ Wilson [rwwilson@mh25Re: LRM
51 Joel Baskin [joebas@symi18Clutch Master
52 Russ Wilson [rwwilson@mh18Re: Tightening nuts.... no lr content
53 "Kent J. Shih" [calypso@19Overdrive for LT95
54 "Piet Fourie 19Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
55 "Piet Fourie 8[not specified]
56 "Shaun Fisher" [FisherS@23Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?
57 "Neil Brownlee" [metal_t32At last!


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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:36:10 EDT
Subject: Re:  Big Skies

In a message dated 8/25/98 10:48:50 PM, you wrote:

is heading this direction?  I am here in Helena.  There are a few of us
Rover type people up here in the Big Sky Country.

Big Sky Country>>

You wouldn't happen to know what's the deal with *Big Sky Rovers*, or
something to that effect? Last time I looked in a Hemmings, I saw an ad (cupla
years ago). 

(They just seemed to reminded me of that Corn Flakes fellow.)

--pat.

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:39:22 EDT
Subject: Re: First Drive

In a message dated 8/26/98 6:24:29 AM, you wrote:

<<Funny,ennit Frank.I've had the 88" 11 years now,and I *still* like
to park it where I can see it from the office window..>>

Not as funny when you live in Miami (or NYC, or NJ) and *have* to park it
where you can see it... 

--pat.

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From: Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:09:40 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

Variously, people said:
:::: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!

::: NEVER take no on a potential purchase for a final answer  until you really
::: understand why the no was said.

:: We've been programmed to understand that when a woman
:: says NO, she means "NO!".

: I tell you though... If you find a girl who loves your rover, you've
: found a keeper.

I know that when an Italian woman says "No", she means it. This standpoint is 
subsequently non-negotiable and is not open to discussion in any way shape or 
form.

Well, at least I know where I stand and I think I like it that way ;-)

However, my fiance has never met my Rover in person, so a major standoff may be 
looming !

Cheers,

Paul.

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[spamkill: mailfaxsrv input: %s]	 Received: from mailfaxsrv.local.com 
(engine26p16.maltanet.net [194.158.36.175])
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Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3)

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[spamkill: mailfaxsrv input: %s]	 Received: from mailfaxsrv.local.com 
(engine26p16.maltanet.net [194.158.36.175])
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Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3)

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From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:16:08 -0400
Subject: Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

Your going to marry some one without them having seen or experienced your
rover? there's no honesty in the relationship (unless your Rover is in
another country) the relationship is doomed. That's like hiding  that your
an alcoholic. Is there such a thing as Roverism? (I know it has infected my
life)
Chris "V"

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:16:18 +0000
Subject: Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

>:::: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!
>::: NEVER take no on a potential purchase for a final answer  until you really
>::: understand why the no was said.
>:: We've been programmed to understand that when a woman
>:: says NO, she means "NO!".

...At the time...
My wife said no."I'm not rumbling around in one of *those* things" she said.
So I said nothing more.Completely dumb on the subject of replacement vehicle.
A month later.."There were two Land Rovers in last weeks free paper".Still
say nowt."Well,arent you interested?" Me:"Too late.They'll have gone by now".
Two months later I got the SWB S11A diesel.Eleven years ago.
Tips for when they say no:
Dont ask why not.They dont know,they wont admit it,but they said it on
principle.
Say nothing at all.Let it prey on them.
Let them think it was their idea in the first place.
If in the meantime they enthuse over lesser vehicles,just shrug your
shoulders and ignore it.Or look down your nose,and say "Bit common,really".

Worked for me,to the point that when the 11A was in dock for six months,
she used to ask how long it would be before it was on the road again.She
used to see Land Rovers and feel like waving and saying "We've got one,
but it's poorly".
Wimmin....

Mike Rooth (Lt Col.MCP Retd.)

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:42:35 -0400
Subject: Overdrives and otherwise

Pat wrote:

>>So, you've got a "Mexican Overdrive"... Automatically puts it in Neutral
>>for the downhills to save gas.
 And Peter added:

>So, this is one of those hidden Land Rover features like the self oiling
>frame?

You betcha'.  Like the folks at MickeySoft say, "that's not a bug, that's a
*feature*."  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:46:11 -0400
Subject: Conversion Factors

Check out http://pos.net/ref/conv/conv_ndx.htm for conversion factors

Peter Goundry
67 GS 109 IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127

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From: Joel Baskin <joebas@symix.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:33:20 -0400
Subject: RE: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

It does pay to be more lucky than smart. 

I married a French gal who insisted on a Land Rover as her daily driver.
Though when she says no, end of argument. Usually it rattles her enough when
I agree with her that she'll change her mind just to be independent. Guess
she hasn't caught on to that trick, yet!

Joel Baskin
1966 SWB Zebramobile

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 07:43:57 -0700
Subject: Fwd: BP going to Portland - commercial content

Don't flame British Pacific for a commercial posting I decided to forward 
it to the world wide list because there are people in the Pacific 
Northwest that do not belong to the West coast mail list.

Date:        08/25  5:22 PM
From:        steve@britishpacific.com

Steve and Marty will be attending the Portland meet this year (look for 
the
blue Series 1 86"), and since we are not bringing a 'booth' this year,
there is room in the truck for deliveries (this means FREE FREIGHT to
Portland!). If anyone would like us to bring something up, please call 818
841-8945 or 800 554-4133, or e-mail us. We'll take orders as long as the
space holds out!

Speaking of phone calls, we have hired 2 new experienced countermen. Tim
Kinnamon has 15 years in the auto parts industry, and Martin Mullett comes
with extensive Land Rover experience in the UK, having worked for
Dingocraft, DLS, and Merrits Land Rover (dealership). These 2 guys, along
with Marty & Keith, add a lot of expertise, and will make calling in much
easier.

Pat Young, our engine rebuilder, and Keith will be at Palo Alto as well.

Hope to see you at one of the shows!

Steve

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:43:16 +0200
Subject: Oily front brakes

My newly rebuilt 88 is playing up - oil dripping from the wheel
backplate, apparently on both sides of the backplate - i.e. between
swivel ball housing and axle stump /backplate and inside the backplate
so that the brake shoes are wqell lubricated.

Now she's grounded awaiting repair. The question is - is this swivel
housing oil which is leaking into the brakes? It's black oil - and we've
run 1000 km since the rebuild.

I followed the advice of my mechanic and used liquid gasket instead of
paper - is this the problem?

Are the front brake shoes junk, or can they be cleaned? What does on
clean this with?

Any ideas and words of wisdom?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 08:07:55 -0700
Subject: Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

>Variously, people said:
>:::: BUT my wife says NO.  Sob!
;
;>I know that when an Italian woman says "No", she means it. 
;>This standpoint is subsequently non-negotiable and is not 
;> open to discussion in any way shape or form.

Well not having Italian blood and being a quadriple Pices I'm a bit wishy 
washy on my nos. I figure ANYTHING is subject to change without notice.

May I suggest the following approach:

Tell her that you are thinking of purchasing a new (used) Land 
Rover(expensive Land Rover accessory) but you don't think it is fair for 
you to spend a large chunk of money on yourself without her getting 
anything.  Ask her if there is something that she has been wanting in 
that price range so that you could purchase both items. 

First thing this approach does is show her that even when you are 
thinking about your car you are also thinking about her and considering  
her happiness (Of course now occasional flowers for no reason other than 
love does wonders too).

It shows her that you want to be fair in the money side of your 
relationship and if the two of you need to scrimp a bit for the purchase 
you both will have a reason to scrimp.

Most Women are trained from birth to put the family first.  Over time 
this can be draining and can cause resentments to grow if the Woman is 
putting the family first and the man is obviously putting himself first.  
Make it easy for her to put herself first sometimes.  It's not easy going 
against a life time of social conditioning.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: Thomas Spoto <tspoto@az.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:10:49 -0700
Subject: Differential Number

I pulled the rear differential last night to replace the gasket, besides that 
it's the
only part of the drive train I've not been into in the 4 1/2 years with this 
Rover.
But I saw the number stamped into the rim of the casting and wondered about it. 
I've
noticed it on my other Rovers but never had a method of finding out what it's 
for. So
here's my question, why do Rover stamp a number (serial number?) into the
differential?
Thanks in advance.

Tom

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 08:32:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

>My newly rebuilt 88 is playing up - oil dripping from the wheel
>backplate, apparently on both sides of the backplate - i.e. between
;>swivel ball housing and axle stump /backplate and inside the backplate
;>so that the brake shoes are wqell lubricated.

;>Now she's grounded awaiting repair. The question is - is this swivel
;>housing oil which is leaking into the brakes? It's black oil - and we've
;>run 1000 km since the rebuild.

Probably. Leaking brake fluid tends to be clear.

;>I followed the advice of my mechanic and used liquid gasket instead of
;>paper - is this the problem?

I generally don't bother with paper gaskets.  I just assume the surfaces 
are too far out for a paper gasket to seal.  I have had good luck with 
high quality liqued gasket material.

>Are the front brake shoes junk, or can they be cleaned? What does one
>clean this with?

I think the official word is that they are junk.  I have too much 
Scottish blood to toss them.  I clean them up with petrol and reuse them.
>Any ideas and words of wisdom?
>clean this with?

Before you start cleaning be sure to locate the source of the leak.  It 
is probably the hub seal behind the bearings.

If it is you will need a new one.  Be sure it is installed correctly.  
Check the inner seal race located on the stub axle. Look it over very 
carefully and replace it if there is ANY signs of wear or a nick.  It has 
to be seated properly and absolutely smooth for the seal lip to make a 
seal.  Be sure to put a thin layer of grease over the race where it meets 
the seal when you reassemble everything.  Turning a new seal on a dry 
race can destroy the seal of the lip.

When you reassemble the spindle on the hub be very carefull not to strech 
the seal and remember if your wheel bearings are adjusted too loose the 
spindle can be slightly cocked and widen the seal lip.

Good luck on your repair.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 08:36:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Differential Number

>here's my question, why do Rover stamp a number (serial number?) into the
>differential?
;
It is not a serial number cast into the housing it is a casting number.  
Casting numbers are used to keep track of which part is which at the 
factory and to drive enthusiasts crazy.

Serial numbers are normally stamped into a machined flat surface.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:03:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

Good post TW, but a bit of hazard on the Brake shoes, Story follows, Minimal
LR content.

My brother had a failed brake cylinder at a time where I had access to a
commercial vapor degreaser.  As the shoes were a month old and Renault
Dauphine shoes were scarce on the ground, I took them to work and degreased
them twice.  I wanted to be very cautious, little brothers life and all.  All
else in the brake system was good, drums in good condition, A-1 brake job in
all respects except for those recycled shoes.  Tw months later about 3k miles,
the shoes failed on hard braking, with resulting, coasting across the
intersection with a great deal of squaling and pedal pumping.   The shoes had
literally exploded and stringy shrapnel was everywhere inside the drums.

I concluded that the vapor degreaser had reduced the amount of glue that holds
the compound together and resolved that I could find the money to buy new
shoes rather than *save*them from inadvertent hydrocarbon contamination.

Zack Arbios

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From: "Jason B. Carroll" <carrollj@up.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:16:54 -0000
Subject: Re: Soundproofing

Jeff-

  Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like it's done a great job. I also 
worry about the chance water traps. If you ever have some pictures, I 
would love to see them. Thanks,

--Jason

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:21:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> I generally don't bother with paper gaskets.  I just assume the surfaces 
> are too far out for a paper gasket to seal.  I have had good luck with 
> high quality liqued gasket material.

Every time I haven't used a paper gasket, I get seepage around them. 

> >Are the front brake shoes junk, or can they be cleaned? What does one
> >clean this with?

They are junk, but if they are newish and not terribly soiled, you can try 
canned brake parts cleaner.  B

> When you reassemble the spindle on the hub be very carefull not to strech 
> the seal and remember if your wheel bearings are adjusted too loose the 
> spindle can be slightly cocked and widen the seal lip.

I recently had a hub seal start leaking the day after a replaced it!
Someone else noticed the wheel bearings were loose, and after I tightened
them, it stoped leaking.

David

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From: Casey McMullen <st93wxta@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:34:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

According to David Scheidt:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> > >Are the front brake shoes junk, or can they be cleaned? What does one
> > >clean this with?
> They are junk, but if they are newish and not terribly soiled, you can try 
> canned brake parts cleaner.  B

While waiting to get to my fathers (2 hrs away) where I can do work on my 
Rover I have cleaned out my brake drum two times, and thoroughly cleaned 
the relatively new pads with canned Brakleen stuff.  They feel great, 
although I may replace them once I'm sure the oil is going to stay in the 
swivel housing where it belongs.

> > When you reassemble the spindle on the hub be very carefull not to strech 
> > the seal and remember if your wheel bearings are adjusted too loose the 
> > spindle can be slightly cocked and widen the seal lip.
> I recently had a hub seal start leaking the day after a replaced it!
> Someone else noticed the wheel bearings were loose, and after I tightened
> them, it stoped leaking.

This is what happened to me, after I did a full swivel overhaul I started 
to get oil in brakes.  By tightening wheel bearings do you mean the mondo 
nuts that hold the hub on?  The ones that go on right before the drive 
flange?  The service manual describes measuring float with a dial guage 
so I just made sure it wiggled a tiny bit.  Should I crank these down?

Thanks,
Casey McMullen
'72 sIII 88
casey@drexel.edu
http://httpsrv.ocs.drexel.edu/undergrad/st93wxta/

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:48:11 +0200
Subject: Oily front brakes... yes but...

I know that the oil is coming from the swivel housing, but is it coming
from between the housing and the axle stump/backplate, or is it coming
from inside the axle, and through the hub? How do I find out - before
stripping the lot - is it worth tightening the hub axle bearing nuts
first to try and seal?

Any ideas?

Adrian Redmond

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:16:32 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Oily front brakes

In a message dated 8/26/98 12:05:19 PM, you wrote:

<<I concluded that the vapor degreaser had reduced the amount of glue that
holds
the compound together and resolved that I could find the money to buy new
shoes rather than *save*them from inadvertent hydrocarbon contamination.>>

Leave it to Renault (Purveyors of Peculiar Transportation is their Official
Motto, shared with Citroen and other French manufacturers) to come up with
vapor-soluble brake linings. ;-)

I'll bet that vapor got into the lining somewhere and when heated up (under
hard braking), it wanted to expand and did so.

--pat.

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:51:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Casey McMullen wrote:

> This is what happened to me, after I did a full swivel overhaul I started 
> to get oil in brakes.  By tightening wheel bearings do you mean the mondo 
> nuts that hold the hub on?  The ones that go on right before the drive 
> flange?  The service manual describes measuring float with a dial guage 
> so I just made sure it wiggled a tiny bit.  Should I crank these down?

Yes  Imeant these nuts.  They are only 2 1/16 AF, that isn't that mondo.
The inner one is what sets the bearing float, which is supposed to be 10
thou, I think.  That is enough that you can feel the hub wobble a
tiny bit when you spin it, but not so much you notice without paying
special attention.  The outer nut is there to keep the inner one from
backing off.  

David

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:54:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes... yes but...

On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Adrian Redmond wrote:

> I know that the oil is coming from the swivel housing, but is it coming
> from between the housing and the axle stump/backplate, or is it coming
> from inside the axle, and through the hub? How do I find out - before
> stripping the lot - is it worth tightening the hub axle bearing nuts
> first to try and seal?
> Any ideas?

If you take the wheel and drum off you should be able to see where the oil
is leaking out.  my bearings were really loose when I had this problem,
very clear from spinning the tire.

David

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:39:41 -0400

Logging off for a few days...latest storm track has Bonnie going right over
our heads here, and though we won't get whacked the way the southern Outer
Banks will, there's this new 4 story frame apartment building going up 1/2
block up wind.  My office is glass on two sides and the carpenters have
spent the last several days loading the building with all sorts of
potentially flying missles.  Gonna knock the computers down and move 'em
out of harm's way.  Cheers, y'all.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:51:23 -0400
Subject: Re: BUT my wife says NO. Sob! (Almost no Rover content)

You guys are lucky if no means maybe.  I'm used to just the opposite.

No means  "Definitely NO".
Maybe means    "Maybe, but probably no",
and
Yes means      "Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on how I feel".

Cheers,
Ray Burton

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From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:53:53 EDT
Subject: Only one Land Rover

Hello gang

I'm back, sadly only spotted one Land Rover in Peru.
If you are the proud owner of a Camel coloured S111 88 safari in Iquitos let
me know as I captured it on the camcorder.
Anything interesting been happening, whilst I was away?.

Now attempting to re-subscribe.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ Rolling RR chassis (awaiting the right body)

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From: Thomas Spoto <tspoto@az.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:15:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Differential Number

TeriAnn,
This number is hand stamped into the outer circumference of the differential
housing casting. 62411 if I remember correctly. There are other numbers cast
into the iron, but this is stamped in. 3/8" to 1/2" high numbers.

Thanks again.

Tom

     TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

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From: Vaughn Jacobs <vaughnjacobs@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:47:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

Hi

My name is Vaughn. I own a 1969 SWB Land Rover ser.II.

I try to do all my own repairs on my "Baby", But to get help & parts in 
here in South Africa is very difficult.

I have to replace gears in my gearbox and need a MANUEL/instruction on 
how to not make a f*%#$-up.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ?

e-mail : vaughnjacobs@hotmail.com
   Tel : (27)(836540225)
   Fax : (27)12 3481173
 Adress : VL Jacobs
          P.O Box 26353
          Gezina
          Pretoria, 0031
          South Africa

Thanks

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 13:02:41 -0700
Subject: Website updated

Just to let people know I have made several additions to my web site in 
the last month or so.

Recent additions include:

- Dormobile advertising
- two more Dormobile pictures added to the Dormobile picture Gallery
- I have started a Carawagon picture gallery
- I have started a page describing Cawawagons
- I have added to my page on developing your own cooking style on the 
trail
- I have added a page on Land Rover inspection before going off roading
- I have added a page on things you should check after the off road trip
- Updated the FRQ page
- Added a page describing how Bob Bernard added a rear fuel tank to an 88
- Modified the spares I take on trips page
- Updated my Land ROver links page

- I have added some pictures to my gallery page on expedition prepared 
Land Rovers
  
This includes a shot of the wood box kitchen used in the Badgerworks 88

ALso included are several detail pictures of Herbert Zipkin's 109.  These 
include detail pictures of the mounts for storing the door top

I invite you to stop by & take a look.  If you want links added to your 
site please let me know.  All I ask is a link to my site from yours.

Take care,

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:57:55 -0500
Subject: RE: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

-
>I have to replace gears in my gearbox and need a MANUEL/instruction on
>how to not make a f*%#$-up.

I have been summoned again, but I know little about re-assambling a gearbox
(disassambling is quite easy). Did it once, but not alone.

luis MANUEL "it's good to be needed all around the world" gutiérrez

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 13:19:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes... yes but...

>I know that the oil is coming from the swivel housing, but is it coming
>from between the housing and the axle stump/backplate, or is it coming
>from inside the axle, and through the hub? How do I find out - before

;>stripping the lot - is it worth tightening the hub axle bearing nuts
;>first to try and seal?

;>Any ideas?

Best thing you can do is look carefully before you start cleaning and 
take your best guess.  The seal at the rear of the hub is by far and away 
the most common leak point.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:25:31 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: When no means no (was: RE: BUT my wife says NO)

All I did was to buy the wife a landy, now I can get away with murder
provided it has to do with Land Rovers.

Piet

P.A.H. Fourie   ( pah@saao.ac.za )
South African Astronomical Observatory.
P.O. Box 25 Sutherland 6920 South Africa.
Tel 023 5711135. Fax 023 5711413

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From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:33:57 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

> My name is Vaughn. I own a 1969 SWB Land Rover ser.II.
> I try to do all my own repairs on my "Baby", But to get help & parts in 
> here in South Africa is very difficult.
> I have to replace gears in my gearbox and need a MANUEL/instruction on 
> how to not make a f*%#$-up.

Hi Vaughn

You are realy lucky. I am 370Km away from the nearest garage.  I do all my
landy work myself.

Try a company called TMS, they have a branch in Pretoria.
If I need technical advice this is the place or try LR Service centre Cape
Town   msm@lrservicecentre.co.za

Contact me direct if I can help.

Piet
55 S1
80 RR

P.A.H. Fourie   ( pah@saao.ac.za )
South African Astronomical Observatory.
P.O. Box 25 Sutherland 6920 South Africa.
Tel 023 5711135. Fax 023 5711413

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 98 13:36:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

Discussion of front hub leaks deleted

;>This is what happened to me, after I did a full swivel overhaul I 
started 
;>to get oil in brakes.  By tightening wheel bearings do you mean the 
mondo 
;>nuts that hold the hub on?  The ones that go on right before the drive 
;>flange?  The service manual describes measuring float with a dial guage 
;>so I just made sure it wiggled a tiny bit.  Should I crank these down?

Front wheel bearings do not seem to last long if all the free play is 
removed (cranked down).

The manual states that you should set the free play with a dial guage. I 
do not know anyone who actually does it that way.

When you first assemble the bearings in place tighten the nut down tight 
to set the bearings in place then loosen the nut.

Some people crank it down then back off one flat on the nut.

I tighten it down to set the bearings and then turn it to get a feel for 
the bearings under pressure. Next I back the nut off a few flats to get a 
feeling of the bearings not under pressure.  

I use grease on my front bearings.  I put some extra on the outside of 
the bearing.  I try to adjust the nut to the place where I can not feel 
any side to side wobble but I can see wobble movement in the grease.  The 
bearings do not have a tight feel at this point.  This is about as close 
as you can get without loading the bearings.

One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can 
push the inner nut in to take up your carefully adjusted free play.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:53:24 EDT
Subject: Re: LRM

In a message dated 26/08/98 01:31:28 BST, you write:

 I was really just checking to see if the ticker was still ticking and you
 were paying attention.
  >>
still ticking - and watching you, young Wilson :-)>
(and going to look at intercoolers at the weekend, more power, tee hee)

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Ian Harper/Donna-Claire McLeod <tantramar@golden.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:23:40 +0000
Subject: Series 3 For Sale

I'm selling my Series 3, located in Sackville, New Brunswick, due to the
fact that at the present rate of repair, considering I only get down for
a couple of weeks a year, it would be ready by the NEXT millenium.  This
is in no way a reflection on the state of the vehicle, more a comment on
my work habits!!!

It's at  
http://www.golden.net/~tantramar/Series3.html
if you want to see more.

Cheers, Ian
-- 
Ian Harper/Donna Claire McLeod
http://www.golden.net/~tantramar
Tantramar House Bed and Breakfast
Stratford, Ontario
Phone(519) 273-7771  Fax (519) 273-3993

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:59:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

In a message dated 26/08/98 15:44:57 BST, you write:

<< Are the front brake shoes junk, or can they be cleaned? What does on
 clean this with?
  >>
Adrian,
we pour petrol on 'em and set 'em on fire.......
not a lot of petrol and well away from anything else flammable and have a fire
extinguisher close by.
but it does work, honest.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:59:17 EDT
Subject: Re:

best of luck Sandy, we;ve seen preparatiions for Bonnie on the Tv here so it
looks like a real bad one.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:59:10 EDT
Subject: Re: First Drive

In a message dated 26/08/98 11:24:29 BST, you write:

<< Funny,ennit Frank.I've had the 88" 11 years now,and I *still* like
 to park it where I can see it from the office window..
  >>
that's what I mean Mike

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:59:19 EDT
Subject: Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

Hi Vaughn,

to Majordomo send message:

subscibe za-lro

you'll find some help closer to home.

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:59:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Only one Land Rover

In a message dated 26/08/98 19:58:47 BST, you write:

<< me know as I captured it on the camcorder.
 Anything interesting been happening, whilst I was away?.
 
 Now attempting to re-subscribe.
 
 Mike Rogers
  >>
sorry, who are you???

anon

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:02:11 +0200
Subject: Re: Oily front brakes

Wewll I spent the evening pulling the drums, hubs and brakes off the
left side - it could be due to a SPOT (Stupid Present Owner Trick).

First I checked the oil level in the swivel housing, as I guess that
this is where the oil is coming from (where else?) - the level was up to
the filler plug, and the trickle that ran out when I unscrewed the plug
was clean, clear brown gear oil.

The mess inside the drum was black oil. An experiment on the bench of
mixing gear oil and tractor axle grease (which I use to pack the hub
bearings - showed that, when whipped, the resulting mess is grey. Add a
little brake shoe dust from the other drum (which I checked and found
dry) and the gunge is black. Ergo!

Inspection showed that the axle shaft plate and brake backplate are
fine, no leaks and the liquid gasket seals are OK (yes I did let them
cure before pressing them toigether).

So my theory is as follows - the hub bearing was too loose, thus
allowing the axle end to play a little in the free wheel hub (AVM's) and
oil from the swivel housing to enter the FWH. From there it mixed with
the grease in the hub bearing, and dribbled out of the rear hub seal,
into the brake area, being whipped around by the hub flages in the
process.

Evidence to support this theory - the bolts holding the FWH's were loose
- all six of them. The Axle had a little play in the hub end - another
1/6th of a turn before putting in the cotter pin would have helped. The
retaining nuts which tighten the hub/bearings onto the axle shaft were
too easy to undo for my liking. Three reasons for oil moving from one
compartment to another.

This seems to have happened today, as the car was definatly not dripping
yesterday (witness workshop floor) and its braking characteristics
changed today. Luckily despite the mess, the oil had not soaked into the
brake shoes - a wash in petrol, a minute in a flame, a wash in water,
and a light sanding, and they are as dry, coarse, and light grey as
before.

I assembled the lot and checked the right hand side too - that was OK.
Then I took her for a drive on the lane, and did a series of emergency
stops - starting at 30 kph and moving up to 80 kph. Light control of
steering wheel to monitor possible pulling to one side - no problem -
braked straight every time, and even allowed the wheels to lock tight.

This time I tightened the lot - maybe the hub/bearings are a little too
tight, but I guess that's better than loose. The hubs are stiff to turn
without wheels on, but with wheel and tyre, the wheel rolls freely when
jacked up.

I seem to remember, that just before I went to Greenland in May, I had a
rolling frame which wasn't rolling, and I needed to get it finished and
on wheels so that I could clean up the workshop and park the other
vehicles indoors. I assembled the swivel housings that evening and got
the frame rolling in time to clean up - but did not tighten everything
up - you know "I'll do that when I get home" - sort of thing. Well, six
weeks later, I was home, finished the rebuild, sent the wagon to the
mechainc to check it before the MOT, then went for the MOT inspection.
Neither I, my mechanic, or the MOT station spotted the fault - which
could have resulted in a nasty event which could have ruined my day.

It's funny - I am used to taking things apart and rebuilding - both
machines, computers and electronics, and my usual rule is, do it
properly, don't cut corners, and if you have to leave something half
done. leave it undone, so that you know that what you have done is
complete. This time I seem to have fooled myself - which serves as a
timely warning to fiddlers mechanical under circumstances stressful.

OK, I could havce avoided the oil brakes by using grease in the swivel
housing - as many here have recommended. However, I would have clocked
up many miles before discovering that my left wheel was held on by luck
and gravity. So I guess I'll stick to gear oil.

Thanks to all the words of advice, analysis and warning - I think I have
solved it - though for safety's sake, I'm pulling the rear drums
tomorrow for a look-see. The the front again in about a week just to be
sure.

Drive safely now...

:-)

Adrian Redmond

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:40:15 EDT
Subject: Jumping out of fourth gear

Never fixed synchros myself, but used to have same prob.  Had engine out
around that time, so had mechanic disassemble tranny + replace spring clips,
but have since heard that you can replace synchro spring clips thro' the
inspection cover by using some forceps.  Anyone know anything first-hand about
this process for our friend in need?

Bill Rice
64 IIA 109SW
Columbus GA

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:40:20 EDT
Subject: Waxoyl and welding

Hey folks,
If I waxoyl the interior of my chassis and need to weld some spots in a few
months or years, is there significant danger of me igniting the inside of my
frame?

Bill Rice

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:50:02 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Oily front brakes

In a message dated 8/26/98 4:37:31 PM, you wrote:

<<One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can 
push the inner nut in to take up your carefully adjusted free play.>>

yeeeouch!

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From: IBEdwardp@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:43:51 EDT
Subject: Re: First Drive

In a message dated 98-08-26 06:24:29 EDT, Ben and then Mike wrote:

<<  I say, the day I park it, walk away and
 >DON'T turn to look at it once, is when I give up. (Ben)
 Funny,ennit Frank.I've had the 88" 11 years now,and I *still* like
 to park it where I can see it from the office window. (Mike)
 >>

All this time I thought I was wierd or perverted or worse because I liked to
look at my 88, always checked to see if anyone was watching me before I turned
around for a last look and, yes, tried to park it where I could take a
comforting look every now and again! Thanks Ben and Mike. I'm still not sure
I'm anywhere near normal, but at least I know I'm not alone. There's more to a
Land-Rover than steel and birmabright and oil on the driveway. Rover on!

Ed Bailey
66 S2a 88
Still somewhere in East Tennessee (I think)

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From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:31:25 -0400
Subject: Temp gauge calibration.

Nate, the si,plest wat to check the accuracy of the temperature probe is to
put the probe in boiling water. This  will indicate if the instrument is
accurate in the temperature region that is the important one. Remember water
boils at 100 degrees Celsius !!!
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:09:01 EDT
Subject: Tightening nuts.... no lr content

<<<<One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can 
push the inner nut in to take up your carefully adjusted free play.>>yeeeouch!
<<<<One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can 

Hilary... get me a wench... er... wrench.

Bubba

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: LRM

>In a message dated 26/08/98 01:31:28 BST, you write:
> I was really just checking to see if the ticker was still ticking and you
> were paying attention.
>still ticking - and watching you, young Wilson :-)>

I have a full class(24) of 10yr olds that I spoke to about you, even showed
`em a picture from an old LRO that I keep on the shelves for "free reading
time"...  We will still be writing to you as a bit of a class project even
though they saw the picture...;)  You only frightened a few of them, so
don't feel too bad....
We'll be learning a bit about the U.K. this year as well as how to write a
proper letter so I thought I'd combine the two...  No naughty returns
though...;)

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Joel Baskin <joebas@symix.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:38:43 -0400
Subject: Clutch Master

Hello,

Don't ask why, but I took the Zebramobile to a mechanic and he's changing
the master and slave clutch cylinders. What's a reasonable amount of time to
do this on a 1966 SIIa SWB, in hours? (Imperial or otherwise)

You guessed it! Me thinks he's taking a bit too long, but not having tried
it I can't say for sure.

Thanks for any help,
Joel Baskin
jbaskin@acm.org

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From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Tightening nuts.... no lr content

><<<<One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can
>push the inner nut in to take up your carefully adjusted free play.>>yeeeouch!
><<<<One problem is slop in the nuts.  When you tighten the outer nut it can
>Hilary... get me a wench... er... wrench.
That lesbian bitch wouln't know what to do with a good nut if you slapped
her accross the face with a good pair....

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Kent J. Shih" <calypso@tankong.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:43:42 -0700
Subject: Overdrive for LT95

Does any one know if I can still get a Fairey Overdrive for my 4-speed
LT-95 gearbox?

Are there other makers of overdrive unit?  I heard Santanas have their
own overdrive unit.  But does it work on V8?

Thanks.

-- 
Kent J. Shih  \_____              D±±±±±±±¬     1982 Series III
calypso@tankong.com \__       _==/_|_|_|_]|     Stage 1 V8
TEL: (206) 409-8106    \___  | _ | | / _'||]    109" Stationwagon
FAX: (425) 640-6607________\_¯(©)¯¯¯¯¯(©)¯____.__\|/__._.___\|/_.__

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From: "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:27:57 +0200 (SAT)
Subject: Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

> > My name is Vaughn. I own a 1969 SWB Land Rover ser.II.
> > I try to do all my own repairs on my "Baby", But to get help & parts in 
> 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 7 lines)]
> > I have to replace gears in my gearbox and need a MANUEL/instruction on 
> > how to not make a f*%#$-up.
> Hi Vaughn

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> If I need technical advice this is the place or try LR Service centre Cape
> Town   msm@lrservicecentre.co.za

LR Service centre is a garage in Cape Town owned by very competent
people all who love Land Rovers.

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[spamkill: mailfaxsrv input: %s]	 Received: from mailfaxsrv.local.com 
(engine26p16.maltanet.net [194.158.36.175])
[spamkill: mailfaxsrv input: %s]	 Received: from TIME-MACHINE 
([100.130.130.222]) by mailfaxsrv.local.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange 
Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3)

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From: "Shaun Fisher" <FisherS@natburo.kzntl.gov.za>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 08:58:44 +0200
Subject: Re: 1969 Landrover ser II Gearbox ?

>>> "Piet Fourie : pah@saao.ac.za" <pah@saao.ac.za> 08/27 9:27 AM >>>

> > My name is Vaughn. I own a 1969 SWB Land Rover ser.II.
> > I try to do all my own repairs on my "Baby", But to get help & parts in 
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 15 lines)]
> Try a company called TMS, they have a branch in Pretoria.
> If I need technical advice this is the place or try LR Service centre Cape
> Town   msm@lrservicecentre.co.za 

>LR Service centre is a garage in Cape Town owned by very >competent
>people all who love Land Rovers.

TMS also have a branch in Durban

Shaun Fisher
SERIES IIA
(THE BITCH)

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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thraser@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:22:29 +0100
Subject: At last!

Everyone!

I'm soooo happy, as to be positively euphoric! I'm off to pick up my nice
shiny 1978 109" on Saturday! It's got 4000 miles on the clock, a full
canvas, and you guessed it's ex-military!

Finally, after the problems I had with poor Robin, and his wheel falling
off, I will have my dream machine!

The wife is equally happy (the trick is to let them help you choose, and
make it seem like their idea!)

Anyway, does anyone have any IDEA how you attach 2 baby seats into such a
beast!? I can try to put them both in the front.....but? Are there any kits
available to make sure the harsh (but oh so much fun) ride doesn't bounce
them out of their shackles?! It's a 2 door btw.

Oh, just to make you all giggle, while ringing round the insurance
companies, I was told that my 109", was in fact a 2 door cabriolet!!!!!!!!
tee hee

Neil

SIII '74 2.25 Petrol SWB - SHJ 299M - 'Robin' (USS Reliant NCC1864)
SIII '78 2.25 Petrol LWB Canvas - Not Registered Yet!
Ford Explorer 4.0i '98 NIB 4318 - Comfortable and Powerful!

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