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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 8:01:49 -0400
Subject: Re: questions about cleaning the engine and drying it with WD-40

If you clean all the grime and oil off it, you'll have to paint it.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:19:44 -0400
Subject: Re: steering wheel removal

wrote:
>"Irish beats the Scotch swill you drink, Kenner!"

Alan,

Not everyone will agree with that statement, unless you're refering to
      swill like "Passport".  So let's have a taste test at

Mid-Atlantic  You bring some of your favorites and I'm sure there will be a
      number of Scotchs there to compare with.

Cheers,

Ray "I prefer a fine Single Malt Scotch" Burton

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:49:23 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: steering wheel removal 

>Actually, an alcohol-based penetrant (castor oil and alcohol mixed, or the 
>like) might work better - but don't waste good Irish whisky. First off, it 
>contains too much flavoring, and secondly it's too damned expensive.

>Stick with the penetrating oil or something of the like - it's easier.

     >aj"Irish beats the Scotch swill you drink, Kenner!"r

I've never used whisky as a penetrant (red wine and candle light works better) 
but I did use Berg's leftover Rum to clean the oil off my brake shoes before I 
left Silver Lake. Worked nicely too.

thanks jeff!

later

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:18:00 -0400
Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally Update

                 +++++THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT:+++++++
Sandy has said pre-registered vehicles ONLY at the rally.

pre-registration ends Sept 1

SANDY HAS SAID:
THE EVENT WILL BE LIMITED IN SIZE TO PRE-REGISTERED VEHICLES ONLY.

you have 1 week to pre-register

i have a copy of the form, if you need one, email me and i can fax copies

there is a work weekend labor day weekend, all are welcome,
contact Nancy McCaig - LR88@aol.com for details.

here's sandy's text as printed in the OVLR NL:
October 2-4 - ROAV's Mid-Atlantic Rally at Penlan Farm. This year's event
will be lower key: a gathering as opposed to a formal and elaborate rally.
The event will also be limited in size to pre-registered vehicles only.
While the Aluminum Man Triathalon will not be held, ROAV has gained access
to an additional 400 acres to play upon, including a tract down to the
James River. To take advantage of this ROAV will be setting up a connect
the dots event across this land. The Trials course will also be open for
anyone that wishes to try it. The cost to attend the Mid-Atlantic Rally
will be $15 per vehicle. Meal costs are $15 per person for Saturday's
dinner and $10 for Sunday Brunch.  A registration form and further
information can be obtained by either writing Sandy Grice at or calling 757
423-4898

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:23:29 -0400
Subject: semi-local events for east coast LROs
Content-Disposition: inline

semi-local events for east coast LROs
========================================================

September 5-6, sat-sun
           Penlan Farm, VA
           Middy Rally Prep Work Weekend
           Nancy McCaig LR88@aol.com

September 13, sun
           Something

--0__=ZQAu0hAu5jV7soVLYHICz8RluFiVZzgYgdq4SrsnByoF07yMgx78w2YG
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=C6s Brewing in Princeton.
           Princeton, New Jersey.
           Craig Dozois (973) 263-5652.

September 18-20, sat-sun
           British Invasion, Stowe, Vermont
           Mike Gaetano (508) 497-9655, maainc@world.std.com

September 18-20, fri-sun
           14th British Car Days
           Berkeley Plantation, Richmond, Virginia
           Pat Smith 804 740-6131

September 26, sat
           3rd Brit/Euro Car Show, and Aircraft Fly-in
           Hummel Airfield, Topping, Virginia
           Jamie Barnhardt (804) 758-2753 innovative@ccsinc.com.

October 2-4, fri-sun
           Waynesboro, Virginia.
           17th Fall British Car Festival.
           Wes Mauphin (540) 943-1236.

October 2-4  *LR
           Penlan Farm, VA
           6th mid-atlantic rally
           pre-registered vehicles/owners only.
           Pre-registration ends on Sept.1.
           Nancy McCaig LR88@aol.com

October 18, sun
           Middleburg, Virginia
           Hunt Country Classic
           703 643-2873 web: http://members.aol.com/mgccwdcc/

*LR denotes rover specific event

=

--0__=ZQAu0hAu5jV7soVLYHICz8RluFiVZzgYgdq4SrsnByoF07yMgx78w2YG--

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:25:17 -0400
Subject: 2 more upcoming events (both in PA)

(Forwarded from Spencer Norcross)

Subject:  2 more upcoming events (both in PA)

Two more to add to the calender.  this weekend is the Taste of Britain, by
the MG Club of Lancaster, PA  Held at the polo grounds, no awards, Polo
commences at 2PM I think.

Sept 27th, Meeting of the Marques at Allenberry Resort in Boiling Springs
PA.
(near harrisburg) Big show I am told, haven't made it yet myself.  There is
a meal plan avail. limited entry at 350 vehicles, no Rover class I can see.
Contact via e-mail: britishmom@aol.com

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From: "Hastelow, Simon - DM/NT" <simon.hastelow@dailymail.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 17:27:00 PDT
Subject: Rover weekend at Stoneleigh, UK

I understand that the Town and Country Show at Stoneleigh, Warks. UK will be 
attended by Rover clubs from all over the country and Europe, Many Landrovers 
too, so I'm told.

Its being held over the August Bank holiday weekend.

I'll pass on more details if anyone is interested, we hope to be going 
ourselves.

Simon W-H
'97 Discovery

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From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Centre PTO Rotational Speed

 I own a 68 SERIE II A, and I would like to know at what speed the Centre
 PTO at the rear side of the transfer case rotates in fourth gear for
 example when the engine runs at 2000 revolutions/min, and if possible in
 what direction : clockwise seen from behind ?.
 
 (It is because I would like to put an stronger alternator on a big pulley
 for my winch.)
 
******************
  Well, on my 101FC, the rear PTO output rotates at the same speed and in
the same direction as the rear driveshaft. This is to provide synchronous
power to the trailer drive, which uses a complete 101 rear axle assy.

Rgds
Mike

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From: "Peter Hope" <shdwrvr@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:29:59 -0500
Subject: Welding Info

Hello all, just wanted to add my .02$ to the welding thread.  I have been
doing Gas, Mig, and Arc welding on auto's for over 10 years now and think
that the DIY who is just starting out would best be adviced to purchase a
quality wirefeed machine that also has a gas option.
    I have used my wirefeed on everything from thin body panels to 1/4 plate
and find it the easiest to operate and feel that it was the easiest and
quickest method to learn.  When doing body/sheetmetal work it is a simple
matter to use a thin, flux core wire, turn down the heat and run either
continuous beeds, or by drilling holes in the top panel and then filling the
hole, form spot welds.  When using thicker pieces of metal it may be
neccessary to make multiple beeds, thus taking longer then using an Arc
welder, but with the same quality of weld.  The gas attachment option allows
you to use Argon shielding gas when welding, turning the wirefeed into a Mig
welder.  The argon serves two purposes: first it keeps the area surrounding
the weld cool, preventing warping (perfect for sheet metal).  Second, the
gas will shield the weld from inpurities.  Just make sure to use plain (not
fluxed) wire when using gas.  Also gas is required when welding other
metals.  Use gas and changing the wire it is possible to weld aluminum.
    The most important thing to look for in a wirefeed/mig welder is the
duty cylce.  This is listed as a percentage and represents the how long you
can run a bead and then let the machine cool down.  This is based upon a 10
minute cycle.  So if you have a machine with a 20% duty cycle, you weld for
2 minutes, cool for 8.  If you can, get a machine with at least a 50%
rating.  Also try and get one with an on board circiut breaker, so when you
do weld for longer then the rated duty cycle (and you will) the machine
kicks off instead of blowing a fuse in the garage.
    Also, find a machine that has adjustable dials for selecting the wire
speed and heat setting, instead of just a 2-3 position switch.  This will
allow for a greater deal of control and better results.
    Oxy/Acetelyn is great for cutting & bending, heating stuck parts and
doing brazing work, but stick to electric for your structural work.
    Arc welding is great for heavy duty work, but the same jobs can be
completed with a wire feed, it will just take a bit longer.  If you budget
allows and you already have the wirefeed and gas set ups, then go for it.
    As others have mentioned, practice, practice, practice.  Where to find
scraps to practice on?  Go to a local construction site and ask if you can
pick through the scrap pile.  I have even been able to find some 8-10'
pieces of tubing, angle, and channel from some sites.  Go to your local
library or bookstore and find a how-to book on welding.  Haynes publishes a
pretty good one.  Take the bits and pieces you scroung and weld them up.
Compare your bead to the pictures in the books.  Then grab the angle grinder
and cut the weld back apart.  Look carefully for airpockets, voids, or
impurities in the weld.  Then weld em back up again.  Try sticking some of
your "art" into the bench vise, grab a pair of channel locks and try and
bend the piece until it breaks.  Take a sledge to some of your work.
    Finally and most important SAFETY!!!!!  DIY welding is a great way to
save some $$, but trying to save a few dollars  doing a minor repair and
ending up with a lump of melted metal for a vehicle or worse, a bit of red
hot slag bored into your body, is not worth it.  Make sure to get the best
Eye protection you can.  Electric welding can cause severe burns to the eye,
even possible blindness.  Get a good pair of welding gloves, and if you can
swing it I also recomend a good leather welding smock.  Electric welding can
also cause burns (similar to sun burns) on the skin so make sure to wear
more then a thong and teva's when working.  And ALWAYS keep a fire
extinquisher near to hand.

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:42:08 -0400
Subject: Distributor timing

"Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org> wrote:

>Drive adaptor gear was still in my old block.  All is good now.  Is
>there a good way to get a ballpark timing done?  I put the engine about
>6 degree before TDC and eyeball lined up the distributor so #1 is
>firing

That's good enough for now...the rotor should be pointing to one o'clock
(when viewed from the side) the contact for the #1 cylinder.
Coincidentally, the rotor will also point to #1 plug.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: jory bell <jory@mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:50:27 -0700
Subject: 1984 RR FS Query

so a friend is looking at a 1984 RR 5-speed PS/AC/Alloys/Brushguards/Rear
Light Portectors/Stereo/Alarm 'recent complete service' (whatever that
means - ha)

39K miles (really, apparently owned by an executive)

asking $10K

being sold by a company called canepa design (which is apparently some
american truck pimping place which sounds suspicious to me) in santa cruz

can anyone comment on the price, the year, etc?

anyone know of any other rangies forsale in this price range or less.

she is looking for a 4wd since they live in a somewhat remote location and
the have several older land cruisers, but she wants something a bit more
reliable and comfy.

thanks!

::jory

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:17:49 EDT
Subject: Re: 1984 RR FS Query

Well, it's definately a grey-market truck! A 5-speed?!?!?

Yes - definately grey-market.

I'd figure out the emissions first.

Charles

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From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:27:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 1984 RR FS Query

Jory,

$10K is too much for a grey market (pre '87 RR),

Ray Burton
'84 RR

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:41:16 -0500
Subject: RE: 1984 RR FS Query

Jory,
>$10K is too much for a grey market (pre '87 RR),
>Ray Burton
>'84 RR

What does  "grey market" exactly means?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:49:05 EDT
Subject: Dumb question (but one not-so asked)

Would anybody on the list happen to have, or know where I can get (aside from
possibly Blanchard) a set of jerrycan boxes, as used on the NATO/MOD
109's/110's? (complete with covers)

I'd like to have a set on my 109 - not so much for carrying jerrycans (great
for long trips), but they make fantastic storage spaces!

Alternatively, drawings/measurements/types of materials needed would suffice.

Thanks in advance,

Charles

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From: Dan & Sally Cantwell <dcantwel@cgo.wave.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:52:03 -0400
Subject: Grey market

Ray Burton wrote:

> $10K is too much for a grey market (pre '87 RR),
> What does the term "grey market" refer to?

TIADan.
'61 SII 88 HT

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:01:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Grey market

Grey market (or, Gray market) refers to vehicles brought into the USA, that
originally did/do not comply with the standard Dept. of
Transportation/Environmental Protection Agency regulations.

Many of these vehicles were brought in under personal import exemptions, and
others were "snuck" into the country long after these exemptions expired (gee,
there sure are alot of Mini 25's here, with pre-1968 VIN numbers...).

As most vehicles imported to the USA after 1973 MUST comply to these
regulations, and many states require emissions testing, purchasing one of thee
vehicles can sometimes be a dicy thing: if it doesn't comply, you have to make
it comply = $$$$$, while others are no problem at all.

Charles

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From: "Huub Pennings" <HPS@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:05:53 +0100
Subject:       on the road again!!!!

Yes! We did it, thanks to the support of my friends and family, after 
more then 300 hours of work, we are on the road agan. I took her for 
the APK tests today, and we passed in one go. Still some details to 
take a closer look at but my first ever total rebuild project is 
finished. 
The  mix of the military chassis and firewall with the civilian body 
panels and hardtop, came out great. Five month worth of spare time 
went into my project and with this message I want to thank all who 
offered me the support, in word deed or writing, which I sometimes 
desperately needed.

Tomorrow we are off for a two week holliday trip through Belgium, 
Luxemburg and Germany, 

Look out for an atlantic green '88 diesel, with a military softtop 
and 3 white wheels and one black!!!!

 

Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

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From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:34:10 -0500
Subject: RE:       on the road again!!!!

>take a closer look at but my first ever total rebuild project is 
>finished...
>Look out for an atlantic green '88 diesel, with a military softtop 
>and 3 white wheels and one black!!!!

Finished?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:46:22 EDT
Subject: Re: 1984 RR FS Query

Regarding the pricing of older RRs 
Last month I picked up my 87 RR for $6k  Perfect shape for year, factory brush
bar, jpegs available by asking.  I also picked up a 88 RR for $2.7K with
substantial body damage.  Also available as jpeg (before and during repair)  

Both are Stellar deals.. but if you can get a car with low miles etc sounds OK
and just a little bit high.

Zack Arbios
Sacramento

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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:56:50 -0400
Subject: Re: on the road again!!!!

Congrats!

Rover On - Mike

Huub Pennings wrote:

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From: "Jos de Vries" <vriesde7@dutccis.ct.tudelft.nl>
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:02:04 +0000
Subject: P.T.C.  ????

Hi All,

What is a   88'' P.T.C.  ?
Thanks to Huub and the belgium army I also bought a 4x2, 88, SIII, 
1975, Petrol, sper-diff. 24V.  P.T.C. (it's to become a standin for 
my 109)
 Is is printed on the label on the rightside seatbox by Land 
Rover. What does it stand for, it must be english ?  I did search for 
it on all FAQ's and  old mail list I know.

Anyone??

greetings

Jos de Vries

Land Rover SANTANA 109 D SW '71 
Land Rover 88 ex-mod '75

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From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:29:35 EDT
Subject: Re: 1984 RR FS Query

In a message dated 21/08/98 22:46:57 BST, you write:

<< I also picked up a 88 RR for $2.7K with
 substantial body damage.   >>

I spy a 100inch hybrid coming on...........

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:24:05 EDT
Subject: Re: 1984 RR FS Query

No Hybrid, only because I don't have the body etc, but a stretch to a 109
sounds too cool.

However, with the $100.oo Porta-Power hydraulic tool kit, the bending modulii
of the various sheet metal parts which make up the upper body can be
experimented with.

With the Connivance of Alfa Parts Exchange and My favorite design team, (BFMI
brute force and MASSIVE ignorance), I am now at the point where...
1.  The tailgate is on and the framework almost ready for the Rear Window.
(that would be window, 98 except it will work)
2.  The Front Windshield is in, and the upper body is straight or almost.  (
FWIW, all the pillaars will deform if you hit something, perhaps some interior
roll cage is in order.  a couple of hoops can't be too tough.)
3.  The lights are almost replaced after a minor snafu which resulted in two
RH units  (front and rear =2) being delivered computer input error at the
parts supplier. 
4. The bent and destroyed muffler/resonator is replaced and the unit passed
Smog and was transferred with minimal errors by DMV, ( the Clerk was convinced
that what I wanted to do was to transfer from PO to PO.)

Any way what I'll end up with is a 87 RR with a rough look in the near future.
The trails will be mine, I will rollup the windows and not care what I hit
underneath.
I will indulge in snatch recoveries and care little what rips off
I will emulate the typical J**p owner but without the drool, and I seldom
drink alcohol (while driving).

Have a good weekend.

Zack Arbios

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From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:12:55 -0400
Subject: Power steering pump

Sandy,  Lucas made a dynamo with a hydraulic pump on the back to power
steering. They were used on a lot of British cars in the sixties
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:19:17 -0400
Subject: Tach and clunk

Kirk, you do not  say which model Rover you have just acquired, but since
you mention a tacho I assume it is a Range Rover, the clunk you refer to is
possibly coming from worn suspension bushes
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:26:04 -0400
Subject: Fuel gauge

The miltary type gauge heads are probably from later vehicles and the
instruments will be the compensated voltage type, you would need to change
the fuel tank sender to the later type and add the 10 volt regulator.
 The instrument you need was fitted to Land Rovers from 1955 ( 86's)  to
around 66 so there are thousands of used ones out there, In fact I probably
have some in my electrical parts  box
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:28:54 -0400
Subject: PTO speed

Didier,    the PTO output speed is linked directly to the mainshaft, in top
gear it will rotate at engine speed since top is direct drive. , it will
rotate anti clockwise when viewed from the rear.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: DHW4U@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:02:23 EDT
Subject: Re: 2 more upcoming events (both in PA)

Hi;
If you are interested in some offroad in altoona pa
miles can be had by reservation on private land owner
and rover owner

dave walls
dhw4u@aol.com
814-942-4921

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From: DHW4U@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:21:37 EDT
Subject: jarvis in watertown ny

Looking for JARVIS or somthing like it from list
please e-mail dhw4u@aol.com

thank you
dave walls
ll a 88  

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