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From: JKwas61947@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:08:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Top Swivel pin removal/renewal?

In a message dated 98-08-04 00:21:54 EDT, you write:

.<< How does one remove the top swivel pin for renewel? Is it as simple, or
.not as the case might be, as driving out the pin from above? >>

Jeff,
     Simple.  Bend back the keepers on the 4 bolts, remove said bolts, and
pull out the pin.  Unless the pin has machined a groove into the housing, it
should come right out.  If it's stuck, use a slide hammer and tap it out.
     At least that's how it was on my IIa.

John

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:38:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Hobart
Content-Disposition: inline

Steve,

Are you able to get any Oz uniforms, web gear and slouch hats to bring back
to the states?
I am a collector of British (&Commonwealth) military gear.

Ray Burton
'64 109 SW
'70 88
'84 RR
ex-USN Aviator

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   "LT S. ROCHNA" <rochnas@stennis.navy.mil>          
 to file:      08/04/98 12:59 AM                                  
 pic30688.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Hobart

Saw a few old Rovers in Perth Oz last week and hope to see a bunch in
Hobart tomorrow.  Anybody on the list there?

Steve

--0__=nSmgmooqyRvmYTDm7MciM1NKOah8b8aL6wnBtv6LQ6Rv1LrNx0zuXgr5

------------------------------

From: DBoehme@HQ.NovaCare.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:28:26 -0400 
Subject: Greek Peak

On the order of constructive criticism:

I have heard mention of possible driving inconsiderations - convoy rules not
being followed.  Not having been there, I can't really comment on if it
happened or not, but the chances seem pretty likely.  Assuming that a good
portion of the people attending belong to various LR clubs, I propose that
the leading members of those clubs stress the importance of driving
etiquette on any driving club events.  On every off-roading event that I
have attended with the R.O.V.E.R.S. club, I have seen at least one instance
of convoy rules not being followed, yet the frequency at which it occurs has
decreased.  I believe this is because of the pre-trail discussions that we
have about convoy rules.  Our club is by no means a "moral standard" to
follow as our own club gains new members daily that need to be educated, yet
I believe "the speech" helps.  Hopefully, if every club can further stress
the rules, such mass gatherings as Greek Peak can be enjoyed safely.

Thanks for letting me ramble,
Douglas Boehme
dboehme@hq.novacare.com
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

From: "Wilson, Scott" <wilsons@msmail.vislab.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:32 -0500
Subject: RE: Greek Peak

So... why don't some people give us some convoy rules... maybe I'm the
only one that doesn't know, but I wasn't there either, but I'd hate to   
piss of
everyone when I do make it to an event...

 -Scott

------------------------------

From: Joel Baskin <joebas@symix.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:09:49 -0400 
Subject: RE: Greek Peak

On the order of driver education:

Is a standard "speech" available on the web or elsewhere? If not, maybe a
version should be drafted, distributed and otherwise made available. 

It wouldn't beat a group sing of "I'm a Lumberjack," but it would be
entertaining to have everyone recite "the speech" together at the start of
an event because they had heard it so many times. Lets the veterans show
their stuff and gives the greenhorns something (and depending on musical
ability - someone) to shoot for.

Joel Baskin
1966 SIIa 

------------------------------

From: "Stude, Herman L." <hermans@krts.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 10:36:56 -0500
Subject: Rules of the Game

I too am very interested in trail etiquette as I have done most of my
off roading with family and friends on private lands.

Thanks

Herman

------------------------------

From: JKwas61947@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:42:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Greek Peak

 
    I think "trail ettiquette" could more aptly be called "common sense" and
"patience".  But then again, common sense is not all that common.
 
   How about some examples of the bad manners that were displayed?  Maybe we
could learn from others mistakes.

    I dont think we need a "rule book".  I find that when somebody does
something dumb, they know it's dumb to begin with.  

My view.  

John Kwasnik
Sherburne   

------------------------------

From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:52:50 -0400
Subject: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

Here are the basics, and I'm sure others will chime in with their own 
spin...
1. Maintain safe distance between vehicles. This includes giving lots of 
room for clearing obstacles. Don't bunch up and stop short after clearing 
an obstacle so that those behind have enough room. Same for preparing to 
cross an obstacle.
2. Lead vehicle should always scout the trail for hazards and pass the 
word for stumps, rocks and such that may cause damage. Following vehicles 
are responsible for getting the word to those behind that there is a 
hazard. Zooming along to keep up with the herd leaves others behind with 
no clue (this happened to Mike Tompkins at GP, the vehicle ahead took off 
to catch the leaders and failed to notify the following truck of a stump, 
which caused a broken tie rod and other suspension damage, $$$; the truck 
had to spend the night in the woods).
3. Be sure everyone clears an obstacle before moving on. This should be a 
no-brainer, but it's happened.
4. Respect private property and try to observe TREAD lightly proceedures.
5. Carry enough recovery equipment so that everyone can get unstuck.
6. Never leave people in the woods. If there is a breakdown, lock it, 
pile into other trucks and get out of the boonies. Always better to come 
back fully prepared than to wait it out.
7. Have fun.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:51:11 EDT
Subject: RE Never connected

<<From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
<<Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:27:24 -0400Subject: Re: Greek PeakGerry,
<< I guess we never connected.  There was plenty to do there.  I hope you did
<<get to ride with someone.Ray Burton

Unfortunately, there were quite a few people that I didn't get to meet.  Large
crowds I guess.  I spent most of my time just simply hanging out.  John Hong
was kind enough to introduce me to a large number of his friends and I
appreciate his hospitality.

The best part for me was looking at Bob Raffensperger and Warren Smith's
Dormobiles.  Makes me anxious to get HD back on the road.

Later...
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ	

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:09:54 EDT
Subject: Re Trail etiquette

The one that I like is "keep the vehicle behind you in site or at least have
the curtesy to wait at turns for them."

Of course on the outing prior to GP  (Red Rock, northern AZ),  there was a guy
who "knew it all" and was major-league pissed that I was looking out for him
and showing some amount of curtesy.  Then again, I've lived in the desert long
enough and participated in enough search and recuses to know that even the
most brilliant and know-it-alls among us can get lost!   This was the same guy
who got stuck in the sand at one point.  Since he didn't have a radio (CB or
otherwise), someone had to hike back to see what was going on.  Is that
another piece of etiquette?  A radio should be considered an essential piece
of equipment??

Later...
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: "Ed O'Neil" <Ed_ONeil@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:18:28 -0400
Subject: Greek Peak

I agree with the poor camping at the GP event. I found that the dust was
too much and moved to the site accross the road next to the pool. Asked
around to see if it was fine and got the nod from the park attendent and he
was surprised to see the I was the only one there. Karen and I enjoyed one
of three 40 foot military tents with showers at the pool at no charge. The
swimming pool was 2 bucks and after 5 pm it went down to a buck. The grass
was great and there was no dust or rocks just fine camping all round! I
think that if this event runs next year this park should be the designated
camp area and leave the other area for a swap meet.

My 2 cents worth to an otherwise fine week-end
Ed O'Neil
110

------------------------------

From: jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 12:16:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Major complaints about GP event

lro@playground.sun.com writes:
>Complaint #1
>No water provided to the campers. We were definitely treated as 
>second-class citizens...a tanker or water bufffalo would have been a 
>great convenience as opposed to schlepping a quarter-mile to the lodge 
>every time.

Despite the handout info, we found out on the last day that the big gray
building next to the camping area had showers and a pool fro $2 per day. 
To think all those stinky Rover folks could have been clean.

>Complaint #2
>Lack of trail etiquette resulting in serious damage to (at least) one 
>truck. Seeing how a disparate group gets together for off-roading and the 
>way that the lack of consideration for those behind can lead to trouble 
>kind of set me off. Perhaps there should have been a short briefing 
>before setting out so as to avoid this unnecessary damage and remind 
>everyone of proper trail proceedure.

I can't say that I saw any of this, although I was riding with mostly
people I knew.  My complaint was that the rides were VERY poorly
organized, no trail information was provided and no one seemed to know the
area.  I was looking for serious trails and never found anything
challenging despite spending most of the weekend on the dirt roads that
seemed to be considered trails.  I don't know who was in charge of
organizing rides or providing ride information, but they needed lots of
help.

>Complaint #3
>No one brought anything to sell. I was hoping for a swap meet, but there 
>was none, or very little of that. Vendors targeted coilers.

I agree.  I saw two campsites with a few Series parts.  Unfortunately, the
one across from me sold all of his stuff before I bothered to ask.  A 2.25
head, Series III brake booster and an axles went for a total of under
$100.  AGH!  I was planning on bringing back new stuff for my Series truck
and wound up looking at Defender stuff whether I wanted to or not.
>Complaint #3
The "food plan" was an incredible rip-off.  Not only was it extremely
expensive, but I've had better food from a hospital cafeteria.  I really
enjoyed meeting all of the fellow Rover people, but I didn't feel like the
event encouraged people to meet one another.  The vendor area was great,
but needed some table space for "swap meet" kind of traffic.

My other advice to event organizers is that they not enter giveaways and
drawings that they are running.  I saw people that bought plenty of raffle
tickets that won nothing when the organizers walked away with several
prizes.  This is tacky, whether by chance or by design.

The whole event needed some variety of bulletin board or message system to
allow people to communicate or meet people they didn't know.  I met
several folks from the lists, but I know I missed most of you.

As an event organizer for the Tellico rally, I think I learned a lot about
what to do and what not to do for future reference, so it wasn't a total
lost cause, but I wouldn't drive 15 hours to go again.

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory University

------------------------------

From: DBoehme@HQ.NovaCare.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:46:32 -0400 
Subject: RE: Re Trail etiquette

I don't know that a radio should be essential, rather organize the riding
order so radios are dispersed evenly throughout with a radio in front and a
radio at the end.  If everyone had a radio, you'd have to teach radio
etiquette. (I've seen radios abused just as badly)

For the "know it all", maybe let them pass at an appropriate spot and let
them keep an eye on you.  The driver that really does know it all, would
really appreciate someone waiting for him solely for the reason that stuff
can break

Douglas Boehme
dboehme@hq.novacare.com
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

From: DBoehme@HQ.NovaCare.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:52:46 -0400 
Subject: RE: Major complaints about GP event

I think there is alot of constructive criticism here and in other messages,
that if used, could improve the second Greek Peak rally.  Unfortunately, I
couldn't go this time, but would certainly like to attend the second one!!!

It seems to me that the biggest issue was a general lack of communication.
Of course, lack of communication usually is the biggest culprit in almost
any setting.  Perhaps, everything should be stated no matter how apparent it
is...

Douglas Boehme
dboehme@hq.novacare.com
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:02:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

I would like to add, lights on at all times in convoy. Makes you visible to
the group and when you pass some citizen going the other way, it shows that
you are a group, all together :-)

One of my pet peeves is the guy behind me tailgating or running "dark"

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.7 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: DBoehme@HQ.NovaCare.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:04:40 -0400 
Subject: RE: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

The problem with lights on all the time, is how do you denote that there is
a problem.

The trail rides I've been on used the "parking lights" while running, and
headlights for a problem.

Douglas Boehme
dboehme@hq.novacare.com
'95 Red D90 #2767

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:31:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Major complaints about GP event

As one who also camped there, i have to disagree.

1. Water. I keep a 5-gallon billy with me when I camp - saves schlepping
about except daily to refill - which I didn't even need to do when at Gp.
the 5 gallons lasted fine.

I don't see why this has all of you surprised - none of the places I have
ever camped 9and that includes State, National and Provincial parks) ever
has water on tap in more than 3 or 4 places. Not carrying a water billy
seems unusual to me.

2. Food. Except for Saturday's breakfast (which was OK though not stellar)
I thought the food more than adequate. Friday night's dinner of steamship
roast of beef, with roast turkey salads and the like was great, as was
Saturday night's BBQ chicken, sausage and peppers and sides of all types.
If this is worse than hospital food, I want to know which hospital!

Admittedly, the meal plans were pricier than the OVLR BP, but this was
commercially catered rather tnan being volunteer cooks. I found it neither
a rip-off nor especially frugal - it's in line with prices in that part of
the state.

3. Unorganized trails.

You did, I take it, make sure to pick up the two maps available at the
Registration Desk as well as the one that was in your registration packet?
I wouldn't call that undocumented or unchecked.

To be blunt, from what I saw of the off-roading it was not high-powered,
but the only ones complaining were the ones who "carved their own trails"
(and wouldn't have known etiquette from Tread Lightly - and had never heard
of either). The off-road had been chosen to be fun and non-damaging - with
emphasis on the non-damaging, to either the environment or the vehicles
involved.

An example of this was a pair of D90s I saw - one of which had attempoted
to carve a new branch between two trails and had found himself 5 degrees
and one wheel from a rollover....

               aj"This needs to be done again...!"r

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:42:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

Lights off for a problem.

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.7 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: Rob Horstman <robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:40:29 -0700
Subject: RE: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

Yeah, that'll work at night !

Rob 

------------------------------

From: "Michael Johnson" <johnsonm@borg.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:41:43 -0400
Subject: comments about GP event

<snip>
>               aj"This needs to be done again...!"r
</snip>

I quess we will have to keep doing this til we get it right.
O.K. everyone back 'um back up and head to GP again, let get it right this
time ladies...

:)

Mike Johnson
74 SIII 88 Chester
96 Disco SD "Her's"
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

From: Rob Horstman <robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:48:00 -0700
Subject: Rollcage in a Series IIa

Just wondering if anyone on the list has any experience putting a full
cab cage into a series vehicle ?

I am building my SIIa up for "rockcrawling" and such, therefor, I want
to make sure that I get it right the first time.

I figure, through the floor, either welded or bolted to Frame,
re-inforce frame, etc....

If anyone has any dimensions, that would be even better than me
designing my own. 

Thanks in advance....

Rob

Rob Horstman, Network Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
NEC Moli Energy (Canada) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                  Direct Line - (604) 466-6681 
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada                Main #       - (604) 466-6654
V2X  9E7
              Visit us on the WEB  @  www.molienergy.bc.ca

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 13:16:20 -0500
Subject: Re: comments about GP event 

In message <bulk.5308.19980804104219@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

 I quess we will have to keep doing this til we get it right.
 O.K. everyone back 'um back up and head to GP again, let get it right this
 time ladies...

	IMO, this was partially a problem of scale.  At previous LR events
of less than 100 LRs, you can easily keep everyone up to date with annoucements.
And for the most part, everyone is doing the same activity at the same time.
Some of the LR events are in the 100 to 200 range but  many of these are just 
parking on the grass.  Again not too much more organization is needed.  But at 
GP, with 350 or so LRs and 800 people there were so many things going on in 
different locations that the communications model that everyone was used to 
broke down.  Everyone wasn't easting dinner at the same time for example.   So 
I would think that the organizers now have a better idea on how to improve the 
event for next time.

	As a side note, I went to the Terra Del Sol Desert Safari this
spring in the Calif Desert.  800 or so 4x4s were present in a large 
tent and motorhome city.  It was a zoo, much more so that GP.  The only
water that I had was that which I brought in a 6 gallon container.   

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:44:06 -0400
Subject: Reproduction Camel Trophy signs

I recall seeing reproduction Camel Trophy signs advertised somewhere
recently, but can't remember where.  They were in stamped aluminum for
attaching to your roof rack and cast metal of some sort for hanging on your
wall.

If anyone knows who advertised these, I'd greatly appreciate the info.

Regards,

Ray Burton
'64 109 SW "Lola"
'70 88
'84 Range Rover "Brown Bess"

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 13:57:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Trail etiquette and convoy rules... 

	Here's what we've been using with mendo_recce and NCRC for the last
few years.   It is available via the web at:

http://www.off-road.com/~bens/mendo_recce_stories/Mendo_Convoy_Rules

                    Rules of Convoy Driving   by Rick Larson
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1) You are responsible for the vehicle behind you.
        a) At all intersections make sure the vehicle behind you knows
           which way to go.  If there is any doubt, wait till you see
           them make the turn.
        b) If the vehicle behind you stops for any reason, wait till they
           go.
2) Get lost together.  
        Unless it is previously agreed upon to split up the group, don't.
        Work out any differences of opinion before acting....
3) CB's, extremely useful for Mendo, we'll know where were going when
        we get there, type trips.
4) Keep moving.
        a) We will stop more than enough times to discuss directions, take
           pictures, eat lunch, fix LR's, etc.  Minimize unnecessary stopping.
        b) If you do stop let everyone know why and for approximately how long.
           Nothing more frustrating than being at the back of a convoy and
           not knowing what is going on.  (See 3.)
        c) If you see something you feel is interesting and want to stop
           and investigate please call it to the groups attention (See 3.).
           It is likely others are thinking the same thing or just happened
           to miss seeing it.  I think to often we drive by interesting
           places, side trails, etc., just because no one wants to be the one
           to stop the convoy.  For the most part Mendo trips are make it
           up as we go explorations.   (Use judgement if it is getting
           late in the day.)
5) Be on time.
        a) Mendo trips leave on time (Really, they left without me last
           time and I was only 10 min late....).  Seriously, there tend
           to be a number of no shows at each trip.  No point in waiting
           as there is no way to distinquish a no show from a late without
           an infinite wait.
        b) Be ready to move out in the mornings.  The purpose of most trips
           is to get out on the trails and explore.   A possible exception
           being the big Mendo and Paradise base camp type get togethers.
6) Be self sufficient.
7) Learn/ask about spotting.  There are some rules, but that would be a
   post by itself. 
8) Safety first. 
9) Don't tailgate.  Leave plenty of space.  The person in front of you 
   won't let you get lost.  (See 1)  Keep any mishaps isolated to one vehicle.
10) Recognize that LR's and LRO's are differentially abled.  Try to be patient.
   The diversity of the trip attendies is generally a positive thing.  But 
   everyone must be willing to compromise.   Try and describe expected trip 
   conditions/attitudes up front so people can make a decision on whether to
   attend and with what vehicle.  Ask before you commit to something you
   won't be comfortable with.
11)  Call all on coming traffic or obstacles.  Much of the time dust obscures
   trailing vehicles vision. (See 3)
12) After you have overcome the obstacle park out of the way.  Make sure the 
    next person has just as much room as you did.  
13) One person at a time on steep up and down slopes.  Leave a clear path 
    downhill in case a transfer case pops out of gear or brakes fail.   
14) Never, ever do anything you are uncomfortable with. (See 10) 

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: Harry Brown <hbrown@hbs.edu>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:52:50 -0400
Subject: Re: comments about GP event

I Think it might have been helpful to have:

a) a standard CB channel for public announcements / info

b) perhaps another CB channel posted for particular trails. I can't
remember how many times we headed down the gas line to find another group
heading back out. I suppose trails that didn't dead end would be a little
easier on this problem.  : )

Cheers,

Harry

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  '96 Discovery
  West Connecticut Rover Club / BSROA    	Harry Brown II
                      		   	Harvard Business School
 "When the Going gets Weird,            	Dept. For Information
Technology
           The Weird turn Pro. "                	mailto:hbrown@hbs.edu
                       Hunter Thompson
	http://straylight.hbs.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

------------------------------

From: "David R. Bobeck"<david_r._bobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 15:10:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Zenith Woes....

>When I swapped my weber back and we re-did the test she passed no problems 
>(after a little tweaking).
>Sooooo, is there something I'm missing about the Zenith carb, or is it 
>naffed and should go back to the shop for a replacement???

yes. have them replace your money. then continue to use the weber for the next 
decade or so...

later
daveb/'72 88"; '85 Weber 34ICH

------------------------------

From: jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 15:15:35 -0400
Subject: Re(2): Major complaints about GP event

lro@playground.sun.com writes:
>You did, I take it, make sure to pick up the two maps available at the
>Registration Desk as well as the one that was in your registration packet?
>I wouldn't call that undocumented or unchecked.

I saw a set of maps with some very nice dirt roads on them, but I wasn't
riding in a Volvo.  I somehow expected a variety of trail rides since
there were a variety of vehicles.  If you only document the non-damaging
for brand new 4.6HSE rides, you have to expect people looking for
difficult trails to go off and attempt to find them.  The problem is that
without proper trail scouting, this leads to people wandering off on
things that look like trails or wandering into areas they aren't supposed
to be in.  A proper map showing private property and off-limits areas
would have been helpful.
>To be blunt, from what I saw of the off-roading it was not high-powered,
>but the only ones complaining were the ones who "carved their own trails"
>(and wouldn't have known etiquette from Tread Lightly - and had never
>heard
>of either). The off-road had been chosen to be fun and non-damaging - with
>emphasis on the non-damaging, to either the environment or the vehicles
>involved.

I saw a variety of people and a variety of opinions in the time I spent at
the Rally.  Some people wandered off on trails they shouldn't have and
some did not.  I never once saw someone "carve their own trail" despite
the fact that many people wound up on heavily overgrown logging roads and
such.  This is why the trails needed to satisfy all levels.

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory University

------------------------------

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:45:58 -0000
Subject: Re: Greek Peak and Convoy Rules

Hi All,

	I can't say they'd do any good if they weren't passed out or verbally
given to drivers, but the ANARC - General Competition Regulations
( http://www.rover-clubs.org/gcr ) did include a section on convoy rules,
aka 'Laning Procedures' adapted from those used by the Land Rover Owner's Club
of Australia, Sydney Branch, Inc. (as below) 

	I know we passed the full set out to all the RTV participants (of which
about 2%  (1 of 50) read them I think :-), but don't have a clue as to if
anything was given out with the maps or what instructions were given for
laning - I never go my head far enough out of the RTV to do anything else.

    Cheers,
          Bill Caloccia			wpc@Caloccia.Net
	 http://www.Caloccia.Net/wpc/
				  R
       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
   R  1  3  2wd  H OD		  D
   +--|--|   o   | |           L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L N           |  2	    because
   '63 SII  RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

 ANARC - General Competition Regulations
     Section L - Laning Procedures
     
     L.1 Convoy Procedure
     
          It is the responsibility of each vehicle to maintain
          contact with the vehicle behind. Each driver MUST
          WAIT at an intersection or branch track, until the
          following vehicle has caught up and that driver knows
          which track to follow. 
     
          If a vehicle wishes to contact the vehicle preceding it,
          the driver will turn on the headlamps and flash
          alternatively high and low beam. (If the following
          vehicle is normally travelling with headlamps on, then
          they should be flashed on-and-off.) On seeing this, the
          vehicle ahead will pass on the signal on and stop. 
     
     L.2 Gate Procedures
     
     The leading vehicle will open all gates; the driver of the
     following vehicle will pull off the track and remain at the
     gate until ALL vehicles have passed through prior to closing
     the gate and rejoining the convoy at the rear. In some
     circumstances the Trip Leader will advise the gate closing
     vehicle to rejoin in front of the tail-end-charlie (aka: sweep
     vehicle). 
     
     L.3 Leaving the Convoy
     
     All persons leaving the convoy must notify the Trip Leader
     and give details of their intentions with respect to the trip
     (rejoining later? etc.). 
     
     L.4 Dogs
     
     Contact the Trip Leader prior to attending to see if dogs are
     allowd It is your responsibility to keep your dog under strict
     control at all times, it must not be allowed to trespass onto
     other people's property or camping areas and be kept
     safely out of the way of moving vehicles. Please respect the
     rights of those who are with you to quietly enjoy the
     outdoors without interference from your animals. 
     
     L.5 Miscellanious
     
          Consuming alcoholic beverages is strictly forbidden
          prior to or during travel. 
     
          Consuming substances which impair your ability to
          drive, or which are not recommended while operating
          vehicles or heavy equipment is strictly forbidden prior
          to or during travel. 
     
          Riding on the exterior of vehicles is strictly prohibited. 
     
          Normal road rules and speed limits must be observed. 
     
          No fires are to be lit without the permission of the Trip
          Leader and their use must comply with all fire
          regulations in force at the time. 
     
          No firearms or explosives are to be carried on Club
          Trips. 
     
          Rubbish must not be left. All rubbish must be conveyed
          to where it can be disposed of in a proper receptical
          and no litter at all is to be left behind. 
     
          Any special conditions or instruction given by the Trip
          Leader must be adhered to. 
     
       Have you sufficient FUEL, OIL, WATER and FOOD?
       Enquire from the Trip Leader the minimum requirements.
     
          Section L only: these procedures are based upon
          those used by the Land Rover Owner's Club of
          Australia, Sydney Branch, Inc. 
     

------------------------------

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 4 Aug 1998 19:49:41 -0000
Subject: re-coring

Hi Richard

	I could have had a new radiator (thin, SIII type) for about $40 less
than I paid to have the SII radiator re-cored ($290. or so, as I recall), but
if you've got an SII, and are trying to keep it mostly original, or not, it
gives you a slighly beefier radiator, for slightly more money.

	Not to bother unless you're pulling or working the vehicle
hard, or just want to keep it near to 'original'.

    Cheers,
          Bill Caloccia			wpc@Caloccia.Net
	 http://www.Caloccia.Net/wpc/
				  R
       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
   R  1  3  2wd  H OD		  D
   +--|--|   o   | |           L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L N           |  2	    because
   '63 SII  RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:13:24 EDT
Subject: To radio or not... that is the question

The person I referenced responded to me directly and I apologized to him for
using that name.  I was wrong!

He did make one point that are worth discussing.  The noise on radios seems to
happen on every ride.  I've been guilty myself on occasion.  On the Belize
trip we had problems telling people road and passing conditions because of all
the noise.  It made it more dangerous than necessary a couple of times.  It
doesn't need to military standards either.. just a discussion to set
expectations like other etiquette items.  

I was also told to keep my "SFB's answers off the list."    I didn't apologize
for posting the note however.  95% of that note was worth discussion.... as
opposed to 50% of this one. :-)

Glad that's over???

One of the well-respected list members suggested to the western LRO's on
another list that we look at getting under ANARC's umbrella and organizing a
western event.  Sounds like a great suggestion to me!   Trying to find
something equal distance from all the clubs might be more of a challenge but
there are some areas worth investigating.  Either that or choose a famous
location like Moab.  The challenge to the AZ LRO would be to meet ANARC's
requirements.  

It would be interesting to see how many would be attracted to places in the
West!  What's the greatest number that the CO SS National LR Rally has
attracted?  150? 

Later... 
Gerry "unlike our Prez, I apologize... no I really mean it.  I was only try to
keep my wife and daughter from being hurt by my actions" Elam  
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: "Rick Debold" <rick_debold@corp.adaptec.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 14:11:06 -0700
Subject: 109s in Los Gatos

Greetings,
I am new to the LRO list but have been on the RRO list for the past 2 years.
I was driving down University Ave in Los Gatos, CA last week and I passed a 
house
with 3 109's (Dormobiles?) in the driveway and an 88 parked in front.  Are you 
on
this list?  I have several questions that you may be able to answer for me.
Please respond directly.

FWIW, I'm thinking of upgrading from my 96 Discovery to a Series if I can find 
the
right one.

Thanks,
************************************************************************
Rick Debold                             Adaptec, Inc.
691 S. Milpitas Blvd.   email: rdebold@corp.adaptec.com
MS 210                                  fax: (408) 957-4999
Milpitas, CA 95035                      phone: (408) 957-2123

------------------------------

From: Frankelson@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:27:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

Can I make an add from the UK?

Always keep an eye on the vehicle behind you. That way, if anyone has a
problem the whole convoy comes to a halt to help....

Best Cheers

Frank
             +--+--+--+   	        
            I !__|  [_]|_\___   
            I ____|”_|"__|_ | /   B791 PKV - Bronze Green 110
            "(o)======(o)"

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 17:38:19 -0400
Subject: GP weekend

"Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov> wrote:

>1.Good turnout of attendees, seemed about equal to Lanham though.

Actually, maybe *double* that at Lanham.  LRNA claimed 268, but Ben Smith
only counted 195.  At Greek Peak, we had an "official" count of 328, but
easily another 50 (or maybe a hundred) that never registered, paid the
fees, or whatever.  Easily 375, maybe 400 Rovers and over 1,000 people.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:05:23 -0700
Subject: Portland ABFM

Now that the Greek Peak event is rapped up......

The Portland ABFM takes place Labour Day weekend, in Portland Oregon at the
Portland International Raceway. September 5-7th.
Land Rover is the show marquee
There is free camping on the grounds for the Land Rover crowd (in our own
area) Friday and Saturday night.
Car show on Saturday.
Swap meet and vehicles for sale Sunday - yes there will be series parts
there.
Pancake breakfast on Sunday (free) - hosted by the Pacific Coast Rovers Club
Off road, 'jungle' course for driving around on Sunday or, ride in a dealers
vehicle Saturday.
There will be a slide show of the Red Rock Trip and other LR trips.
Entry into the PIR grounds to look at the other 800+ British vehicles.
Estimates for Land Rover attendance vary between 300-500.
This is a family style event with good comradery.

All for $30 - e-mail contact to register abfmpdx@pacifier.com
web site http://www.abfm-pdx.com

I am in no way connected to this event other than knowing about it (and
attending).

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.7 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: "Mark Talbot" <rangerover@top.monad.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:32:02 -0400
Subject: Greek Peak

All,

I guess there is no pleasing everyone ! I know the clubs that put on the
event put in a lot of hard work and effort to make Greek Peak a success.
Putting an event like this together is small undertaking. I think those that
attended should congratulate those that worked so hard.

As far as the trails were concerned. There were maps that showed the trails
and I lead two trips in the woods with at least 12 LR's on Saturday am, and
5 in the PM. We found mud ! and had a good time. I don't recall meeting
other LR's on the trails.

Rumours that we do this again next year are abound, obviously changes can be
made to make things better and when the time is right I'm sure no one will
hold back.

Mark

1988 Range Rover..

Loaded up for the rough stuff

1993 Range Rover..

Plushmobile

------------------------------

From: "Neil Sheridan" <neilsheridan@nac.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:10:37 -0400
Subject: GP - Congratulations and Thanks!

Great job!

1. Registration was simple and quick.

2. The RTV was managed perfectly by Bills Leacock and Callococia and all of
their marshalls.  As for trail etiquette, I felt like I was at a
well-behaved PGA golf tournament during the RTV and the site was so
expansive, we never once came across opposing "traffic" on the self-directed
trail rides.

3.  How about spending next year (please do run it again at Greek Peak) to
build temporary outdoor showers with 4 or 5 unisex stalls.  Either that or
TeriAnn ought to be given a concessionary license for her shower.

4.  We didn't participate in the meal plan, but rather than just limit
future offerings to British food, what about having themed meals (Britain,
Africa, Jamaica, South America, Cape Cod...)

5.  If you do go back to GP next year, we heartily endorse Kathy's Diner.
It was one of the best diner breakfasts I have ever had.  Also, William
Least Heat Moon's classic book "Blue Highways" (about driving the perimeter
of the United States only using secondary roads), used the calendar method
for predicting the quality of a diner's food.  Moon thought that five
calendars hanging around a place was outstanding.  Kathy has SEVEN!

6.  Mixers and town meetings would have been a good idea.  Some
semi-organized way to meet the LRO listers (like "Hello, My Name is
REDROVER@WACKY.NET) would have been fun.

7.  We didn't see a birthday cake but we had "5" and "0" candles.  Next year
we'll bring back the "5" and get a "1".

8.  Please do a swap meet.

9.  Ray Burton, the band did sing my "Land-Rover Ranch" song.  I was mighty
flattered.  (Thanks, Sandy!)

Hey, it was a great weekend.  Best of all, it was OUR event not a
fabricated, starched "Land-Rover" khaki shirt, corporate self-promotion
saleabration.

Congratulations to ANARC and THANK YOU!

Neil Sheridan
neilsheridan@nac.net

------------------------------

From: "Mark Talbot" <rangerover@top.monad.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:41:17 -0400
Subject: September / October events

All,

I had 29 e-mails about the event we are planning for VT and NH. The date is
now October 10-11th.

During the last few weeks of Sept and the first weeks of October there are
numerous events taking place. Talking over the weekend to people who run
events at that time of year it appears we will have to move the date for the
trip into October.

Just to let you all know of dates of events...

Sept 18-19 Stowe
Sept 26-27 BSROA fall heritage
Oct   2-3  ROAV
Oct   2-3  DELRC / ECR
Oct  10-11 VT/NH fall run

That means Dave Sticht's excellent Mount Shaw trip needs to get squeezed in
here. So I will take the Oct 10-11 date. Trees should be in full colour
here.

Guess we will be spoilt for choice !

1988 Range Rover..

Loaded up for the rough stuff

1993 Range Rover..

Plushmobile

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 20:59:31 -0300
Subject: Re: Zenith Woes....

Duncan Phillips wrote:
> Hi all.......
> I recently (april) bought a NEW zenith carb to replace my weber (Turner
> Engineering recommended it for use with the unleaded head I had from them).
> Yesterday, I took Evie for an MOT re-test (she failed on some chassis holes
> and the emissions). The bloke shoved his probe up her tail pipe ;-) and the
> machine went off the scale, so we stated tweaking the mixture screw (or

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 29 lines)]
> *******************************
> Big Bad n' Blue
If you want to mess with abrand new carb You will probably find A) the 
O ring in side the float bowl area is no good ( I know, it's new).
  B) the top cover is warped.
  Both result in fuel leaking internally and  screwing up the idle
mixture. Fix em and you'll have a reasonable carb. 
 The reason that Turner recommend against the Weber is that it runs out
of air flow at the higher RPM that their engine is capable of. 
  John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 21:08:42 -0300
Subject: Re: Re Trail etiquette

GElam30092@aol.com wrote:
> The one that I like is "keep the vehicle behind you in site or at least have
> the curtesy to wait at turns for them."
> Of course on the outing prior to GP  (Red Rock, northern AZ),  there was a guy
> who "knew it all" and was major-league pissed that I was looking out for him
> and showing some amount of curtesy.  Then again, I've lived in the desert long
> enough and participated in enough search and recuses to know that even the
> most brilliant and know-it-alls among us can get lost!   This was the same guy
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> Gerry Elam
> PHX AZ
You are dead right Gerry. It is hard some times to remember tokeep the
guy behind in the mirror but when you think the guy in trouble could be
you it get a little easier.
   John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 21:15:03 -0300
Subject: Re: Trail etiquette and convoy rules...

David and Cynthia Walker wrote:

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:25:58 -0500
Subject: Comments needed about a Truck offered

I received an offer from a friend.
They sell me a D-90, 1986 in overall good condition (not perfect but good),
some damage to the seats but he fixes it prior to selling.
The engine has been swaped to a Toyota B engine, Diesel, 3.5 liter.
Good power.
New tires, but 15' rims.
US$7000.
How does it sound?
Any comments?

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

------------------------------

From: "Alan Logue" <logue@a011.aone.net.au>
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:07:31 +0930
Subject: Rough Running

Hi all.
Anyone have any clues on the cause of the following.
On a cold day 45F, and cold engine, I started up fine and it idled ok. Let
it run for about 3 minutes and drove off.
About 3 km from home, on a level piece of road, the engine (3.5 efi in a 91
manual Disco) started running rough for about a km or two, then settled down
and has been fine.
I'm assuming its something to do with the transition from cold to warm
running or something, but would appreciate any input.
It did it a month or so ago, about the same, on a coolish day, but I didn't
pay any attention to it then.
No lights come on and I don't need to worry about error numbers on the ecu
'cause it doesn't have any!!
Alan
Logue & Associates
PO Box 689
Morphett Vale
South Australia
Ph +61-8-83228965
Fax +61-8-83875535

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 20:59:01 -0400
Subject: Radiators

>the top and bottom tanks should (almost) last for ever so there is no risk
in using them again (if ok)

 Not so!!!    The stiffening  ribs punched in the top tanks of ser 2 rads
are a constant source of radiator leaks. The material is thinned at the
edges when the ribs are pressed  and the material fatigue cracks due the
movement of the tank caused by the pressure and thermal cycling of the
coolant system.  Soldering the cracks is only a short term fix.
 The ser 3 rad has a much smaller top tank which is better shaped to
withstand  pressure and thermal cycling 
 

 For the same money buy a new radiator.

  From  - Twenty years a radiator maker !!
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 21:03:46 -0400
Subject: Swivel pin

>  How does one remove the top swivel pin for renewel? Is it as simple, or
not as the case might be, as driving out the pin from above?
  Thanks...

  yes it is, the early ones hacve a cross pin which must be removed first,
but the rialco bush pin is just " pressed " out.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Comments needed about a Truck offered

>I received an offer from a friend.
>They sell me a D-90, 1986 in overall good condition (not perfect but good),
>some damage to the seats but he fixes it prior to selling.
>The engine has been swaped to a Toyota B engine, Diesel, 3.5 liter.
>Good power.
>New tires, but 15' rims.
>US$7000.
>How does it sound?
>Any comments?

How does it sound????  The sound you just heard was my jaw hitting the
table and my heart bouncing off of my spleen.....
The only comment I have is that I sure wish I could get my hands on a
diesel D-90 for $7,000.

Sounds like a hell of a deal to me.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

------------------------------

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 19:19:48 -0700
Subject: Wandering Speedo

I have a 1966 88" with a speedo problem. On short drives everything is
fine, but after a while on a long trip, the speed on the speedometer
will drop by ten to twenty mph. If I decelerate or shift into neutral it
will return to it's normal reading. When I shift back into gear it will
drop again. I think it is some kind of thermal problem, as in something
expands when the tranny gets hot, which is why it is ok on short trips.
Could the speedo drive gear be slipping or is it held in place by a key
or something? could it be caused by worn or missing circlips? This car
is my daily driver, so I would rather have the part(s) before I have to
tear into it if possible. Any ideas welcome.
Jim Hall  http://www.users.uswest.net/~jimfoo
Chilly Willy 1966 88"

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 21:33:58 -0400
Subject: Alternator

>On the alternator is a plate with the follow numbers:
24155A
A133-65
338312V1

 24155 is a typical Lucas part number. it is rated at 65 amps
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 04:33:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Lights - wasTrail etiquette and convoy rules...

Agreed........but their generator will not keep up with those lights!

David - I still like the look of the narrow sealed beams - Walker

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:24:07 EDT
Subject: GP

<<6.  Mixers and town meetings would have been a good idea.  Some
semi-organized way to meet the LRO listers (like "Hello, My Name is
REDROVER@WACKY.NET) would have been fun.>>

Or just take one of Bill's internet shirts and add your e-mail address on the
back under the emblem!  Either that or hire John Hong to show you around!  

Later....
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (interior in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

------------------------------

From: "drew squires" <drewteri@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Reproduction Camel Trophy signs

Me Too!!!  Thanks!

Drew Squires
drewteri@concentric.net
66 109 (Still Getting Dressed)

------------------------------

From: "drew squires" <drewteri@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:08:22 -0400
Subject: Re: GP weekend

Hi All:
    First, I really enjoyed it except for the fact that my 109 is in
restoration so I had to come in a Suburban.  Therefore I didn't get to enjoy
the trails.  After reading a number of the posts I felt I'd offer my 2
cents.
    I'm sure a number of people didn't register cause I didn't.  Some of
them may not have due to problems with the online registration form.  I
tried to register numerous times on different days & times and kept getting
an "error in processing my registration."  I tried calling some of the
organizeres that were listed at the Web Sight & experienced more problems.
One of the phone numbers was listed incorrectly.  I left a message on one of
the other organizer's answering machine expressing my desire to register but
I never recieved a return call.  Finally, I just decided that we would
"crash the party."  Say La Vie!
    The weather was great, & offered numerous photo opps of al the great
vehicles.  Really got my wheels turning about what I want to do to my 109
when she is finally "dressed."
    Regarding communication,  I think the bulletin board suggestion is
really great.  I'd like to add to that idea that people bring a small
picture of themselves and/or thier vehicle to post along with thier list
handle/sig/name so that we can meat each other easier.
    Also, I think an effective use of a cb channel for announcements, etc.
would work well.  I think the channel would need to be volentarilly
restricted to use by the organizers only, similar to a radio station.  No
talking back & cluttering up the air waves.  Use another channel for that!
    Trail etiquette?  Wasn't on them, so I don't know but it seems to me
that if everyone keeps an eye on the one behind all should go well.  Also,
headlights on seems like a good idea & if a problem develops at night, use
emergency flashers if you have them, else flash your headlights.  That's
what I do on the road!  (In case the electrical system goes out it would be
helpful to have one of those "horns in a can."  Like the ones that are used
on small boats when running in a fog bank.  The're quite loud!  They use
them at ball games too.
    The only REAL COMPLAINT I have is the lack of any kind of swap meet.  I
realy expected to be able to find a lot of interesting series parts for
sale.  I was very dissapointed.
    A smaller complaint is that the organizers won a lot of the drawing
items but I'm probably just jealous.  Especially cause I didn't win the
winch!  Thanks Atlantic British for the free key fobs.  Nice consolation
prize.
    Anyway, God willing, I'll be there next year with my 109, & if the
online registration works I'll probably be "legal."
    On a scale of 1-10, !0 being perfect, I'd give G.P. a 7.  That number
might have been different if I had the opportunity to shake up my guts on
the trails.  Oh well,  Next year!!

Yours:

Drew Squires
drewteri@concentric.net
66 109 (Still Getting Dressed)

------------------------------

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