L-R Mailing Lists 1948-1998 Land Rover's 50th Anniversary

Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

msgSender linesSubject
1 RoverNut@aol.com 14Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
2 RoverNut@aol.com 16Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
3 RoverNut@aol.com 34Re: wind-bags
4 Axel Pawlik [axelpawlik@17RE:Re: "withdraw the stub axle"... hah!
5 RoverNut@aol.com 16Re: carnivore
6 RoverNut@aol.com 25Re:
7 "Richard Marsden" [rmars32Re: wind-bags
8 Scott Wilson [scott@scra29RE: wind-bags and gas tanks
9 Kevin Whitmarsh [kevin.w30Re: Freelander and defenders to US(cars...)
10 Peter Goundry [peterg@ai22Billing
11 "Kenner, Dixon" [Dixon.K18Rover cars in the USA
12 Bradley Alan [alan@cs.bc10Landy Sighting on the web
13 Zaxcoinc@aol.com 19Re: Diesel Tank Repair
14 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml14RE: wind-bags / Safety Standards
15 "Faure, Marin" [Marin.Fa109How fast should I go (was overdrive question)
16 CIrvin1258@aol.com 10Re: wind-bags
17 CIrvin1258@aol.com 25Re: Rover cars in the USA
18 Paul Philippas [aurora@b25Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
19 Keith Addison [gruno@att32Re: Iffy prop-shaft
20 Leger Marc-Andre [ma.leg28Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom
21 TBache9248@aol.com 47U.K. Trip
22 BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.co36Leaf Springs
23 Benjamin Smith [bens@psa37Re: How fast should I go (was overdrive question)
24 Joel Baskin [joebas@symi24RE: Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom
25 Norman Lewis [norm@kpco.34Re: Chassis numbers
26 CAPTPAYNE@aol.com 12Re: Would you be angry if...
27 "M. Tompkins" [mmglass@i7(no subject)
28 GElam30092@aol.com 29David Ashcroft's transfer case conversion kit?
29 "M. Tompkins" [mmglass@i6[not specified]
30 "bill.di" [bill.di@mci2024Re: PSP Matting
31 GElam30092@aol.com 31Series III question, oil seal, front hub area
32 GElam30092@aol.com 17stupid remarks
33 MRogers315@aol.com 21Re: Freelander in the US?
34 "A Big Viking" [aviking188CONGRATULATIONS ON A JOB WELL DONE!!!


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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:43:58 EDT
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 98-07-24 07:05:15 EDT, you write:

 moment - the pound is too darned high, that they'd make a loss on it.
  >>
Perhaps, but the main reason from what I'm given to understand is that
Defenders don't crumple, and there is no good way of putting in an airbag.

Alex Maiolo

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:45:54 EDT
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 98-07-24 07:05:15 EDT, you write:

<< Wouldn't have been The Carnivore on the outskirts of Nairobi, didn't go
 there, but heard about it.  I was cruising about in an SIII diesel 88.
  >>
 *DING*
right answer!
Gringo central, man, but really cool.

Alex Maiolo

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:57:37 EDT
Subject: Re: wind-bags

In a message dated 98-07-24 07:07:23 EDT, you write:

<< I've only been into Land
 Rovers for the past 5 years, I would venture to say that there haven't really
 been enough accidents involving them to make side airbags mandatory in this
 type of vehicle. >>

Yeah, I agree, but that may have much more to do with odds. I mean, there are
only a handfull of them in the US, so your chances of dying in a Defender are
about the same as dying in a bizarre gardening accident.
But, as much as I believe THE MAN is always keepin' his foot on our forehead,
a defender can't be an exception if the law says cars have to have air-bags.
Whether one agrees with the law or not is a different discussion for a
different time, but if it's a law, I guess it has to be consistant. Too bad,
because I'd love to own a 110 again.

My wife had her life saved by one so I'm pretty much pro air-bag. I reckon it
would be nice to have a choice as to whether or not you want one, but just
like the seat belt law, I think it's designed to keep the person causing the
accident from getting sued for wrongful death when an airbag could have saved
a life. 
They say the bags kill about 17 people a year; usually error involving a child
and a lack of common sense on a parent's part, but last year they figured 3200
lives were saved. Who knows.

Alex Maiolo   <-------tool of the MAN

Alex Maiolo

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From: Axel Pawlik <axelpawlik@tinet.ie>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:54:18 +0100
Subject: RE:Re: "withdraw the stub axle"... hah!

At 11:39 24.07.98 +0100, you wrote:
>I am just asking but I have two bearings in the hub not one!!!!

yes. The first one came out easy, with the rest of the hub.
The seconde, inner, bearing was mated to the stub axle.
A bit of prying while in the vice got it loose without problems.

The "bigger than stub axle splines" must have been deformed
by something. A tiny bit of filing rectified that problem.

	cheers, Axel

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:01:38 EDT
Subject: Re: carnivore

In a message dated 98-07-24 07:07:23 EDT, you write:

<< The location is a bit interesting.  The back door of the Carnivore opens
 onto the Nairobi Game Park.
  >>

Or as the restauranteur calls it, "da live meat locka."
Talk about opportunity....

Alex Maiolo

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:08:18 EDT
Subject: Re:

In a message dated 98-07-24 07:16:34 EDT, you write:

<< As for the OD stressing the gearbox, usually the argument is the
 otherway around.  Most people think that the Fairy OD is too weak.	
 
 Ben >>
 That's what I'm given to understand.
The Santana Toro model is beefier since it doesn't use needle-bearings, and it
holds twice the oil so it runs cooler. A better design, but similar to the
Beta/VHS arguement, the better design doesn't always win.
If you can find a Santana, and I wish you luck, buddy, get it and don't think
twice, otherwise add "climbing" gear oil, at a ratio of up to 20% in the
Fairey and it will run cooler and stay lubed a little better. Personally, I
like the stuff they sell at NAPA. You know, the stuff that climbs up the
spinning cogs you play with while you wait an hour to be served...
That's some great goo.

Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

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From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:12:51 +0100
Subject: Re: wind-bags

accident from getting sued for wrongful death when an airbag could have
saved
a life.
They say the bags kill about 17 people a year; usually error involving a
child
and a lack of common sense on a parent's part, but last year they figured
3200
lives were saved. Who knows.
-------

Ah the old US airbag chestnut.

Most if not all of the US airbag kid fatalities are because US airbags are
more powerful than European ones. The reason why? They have to deal with an
adult who doesn't have a seat belt on!

Wouldn't it be simpler to make seat belts mandatory, then airbags can have
a more "sensible" power/size?

Its a strange country I'm moving to in the next month!

But then, the new UK/EU driving license has just been launched - now that's
a good idea which the US has had for ages (credit card sized and with a
photo).

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

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From: Scott Wilson <scott@scratchstudio.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:40:57 -0400
Subject: RE: wind-bags and gas tanks

> But, as much as I believe THE MAN is always keepin' his foot on our forehead,
> a defender can't be an exception if the law says cars have to have air-bags.
> Whether one agrees with the law or not is a different discussion for a
> different time, but if it's a law, I guess it has to be consistant. 

The only this is that to me, the Defender represents a different type of car
than say, a Volvo... It's almost a professional vs consumer argument...
DAT machines have to have SCMS, but if you buy a "pro" model instead
of a "consumer" model then it doesn't have SCMS...  Am I making any
sense or should I shut up?

I'll shut up... I haven't had any coffee yet this morning.

Oh yeah... I do have a question... I'm replacing the gas tank sometime this
weekend, and I don't have a shop manual yet... that won't get here until
monday or so... My question is this... the horrible plastic gas tank that 
is in there now is resting on what seems to be a thick metal base that is
made of thick wire mesh... IS this there to protect the plastic one, or is it
there to protect ALL the gas tanks?

thanks...

-Scott

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From: Kevin Whitmarsh <kevin.whitmarsh@which.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:43:38 +0100
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US(cars...)

CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote:
> I was talking with a Customs agent/friend of mine at work today, and she
> mentioned that either KLM, or Lufthansa (possibly both - she thinks), just
> brought some NEW Rover cars into the U.S. for testing. She didn't know what
> models they were, but that they resembled a Lexus/Infiniti type of sedan, and
> that the emblems were all covered, as were other parts of the cars.
> She said, that they are going to Arizona for testing (where Rover does nearly
> all their hot weather tests - as do other European manufacturers), and U.S.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> Looks like the ball is rolling...
> Charles

Probably the new Rover R40 saloon car, replacment for the
current Rover 600 and 800 car ranges.  R40 due out at
end of year, some details on the rover group web site.

cheers 
Kevin Whitmarsh
Basingstoke, UK

4-wheels  1985 110 County V8         1995 BMW 318IS Coupe
2-wheels  1993 Orange Elite with 'XT,Hope,Middleburn etc.

http://homepages.which.net/~kevin.whitmarsh/

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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:35:17 -0400
Subject: Billing

<Neil wrote: Well, I bloody enjoyed it!

Anyone else go, there's absolutely no Billing talk here 
recently........>

The first American contingent arrived back Wednesday and we really 
haven't got round to talking about it yet. As mentioned on a previous 
list, both R.O.V.E.R.S and West Connecticut Rover Club (WCRC) had 
parties attending Billings. Pictures should be up on the club sites 
shortly and articles will be appearing in the club's news sheets. I am 
sure that all of the members photographs will be on display at Greek 
Peak and that we will all be talking about our 
adventures/misadventures.
Cheers for now,
Peter J Goundry
67 GS109" IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127

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From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 24 Jul 1998 10:29:00 -0400
Subject: Rover cars in the USA

CIrvin1258@aol.com writes: 

>I was talking with a Customs agent/friend of mine at work today, and she
>mentioned that either KLM, or Lufthansa (possibly both - she thinks), just
>brought some NEW Rover cars into the U.S. for testing. She didn't know what
>models they were, 

The new Mini is already over in the USA for a couple of displays (one in SF
that I heard about) and testing.  (Testing?  Let's see how it compares to
a Mk II or III 1275 'S...  That would be interesting... :-))

Rgds,

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From: Bradley Alan <alan@cs.bc.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Landy Sighting on the web

On IBM's Employment Web Page, they have a Safari motif and a sketch
of a beautiful Series (IIA or III).

--Brad

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:27:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Diesel Tank Repair

The usual cautions for welding any closed vessel which has AT ANY TIME
contained hydrocarbons/combustible/flammables.  You can blow up.  it is that
simple.  I'll bet that the cost of a new tank is not as bad as you think.
That said, for irreplaceable tanks (Luscombe 1948 Aluminum Hand welded tank
for Aircraft) we welded the tank after draining, cleaning, ventilating well we
placed a continuous flow of nitrogen into the tank from a high pressure
cylinder via some tape and a regulator.  regulator to send the flow at a slow
rate, and the tape to close up most but not all of the holes.  the project
worked and we did not explode.  The welder was an deeply experienced aircraft
welder and ahd done this procedure many times prior.

Zack Arbios
Sacramento, CA USA

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:11:37 -0700
Subject: RE: wind-bags / Safety Standards

Do the air bag / crumple zone collision standards in the US also apply
to light trucks?  i.e. does your bog standard Ford F150 with ladder
frame chassis have to meet the same standards as a Ford Taurus?
Following that line of thought, is a Defender classed as a car or light
truck down there?

Paul Quin
Victoria, BC  Canada

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:25:45 -0700
Subject: How fast should I go (was overdrive question)

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:16:56 -0500
Subject: How fast should I go (was overdrive question)

>My Series III currently has 32" tyres.  Without the OD I have a
self imposed top speed of about 62 mph.  At that speed I'm turning about
4000 rpm (or at least it seems that way to me).

As highway speeds in general increase, there is a real temptation to
keep up with the flow of traffic.  But keep in mind that the 2.25 Land
Rover engine was designed in an era where 50mph was considered fast.
Not only that, but the basic engine design is a diesel; they redesigned
the necessary components to turn it into a petrol engine to eliminate a
second engine assembly line (it had been producing a car engine that was
also used in the Land Rover, but the car went out of production).  So
the basic design is extremely strong, which is good, but it's for a
relatively slow-turning engine.

The redline of the 2.25 petrol engine is 4,250 rpm.  If you drive with
the engine turning consistently at 4,000 rpm, you are only 250 rpm away
from its maximum rpm.  Needless to say, this is not the best way to
prolong the life of the engine.  If you own a car of some sort that has
a tachometer and a redline of, say, 6,000 rpm, put it in a gear where
you can drive for awhile at  5,500 rpm without exceeding the speed
limit.  Listen to what the engine sounds like and decide if that's what
you would like to do to the engine for an extended period of time.
That's what you're doing to the Land Rover  2.25 engine if you drive
continuously at 4,000 rpm.  And keep in mind that the Land Rover engine
was made using 1950's technology and metallurgy, not modern technology
and materials.

I don't want to imply that the engine in a Series Land Rover will fail
immediately if driven consistently at 4,000 rpm.  But it's life will
definitely be shortened.  Regardless of how often you change the oil,
and how easy you are on an engine, the pistons are only going to go up
and down so many times.  Like all things mechanical, the parts will
eventually wear out.  The harder the engine has to work, and the faster
it has to turn, the sooner the parts will wear out.  The floatplanes I
fly are fitted with Pratt & Whitney R-985 air-cooled, radial engines
that develop a maximum of 450 hp at takeoff.  By FAA regulation, they
have to be completely overhauled every 1,600 hours no matter how well
they may be running at the time.  The difference in wear in an engine
that's been run in cruise at 1,700 rpm during that period and one that's
been run at 1,900 rpm is significant and obvious.

Since buying my Series III new in 1973, I have made it a practice to
never take the engine over 3,000 rpm except when absolutely needed, such
as when merging onto a highway or whatever.  With the overdrive and the
tires I have fitted, 3,000 rpm gives me a speed of about 55 mph.  Sure,
everyone passes me if I'm on the highway, but that's what happens when
you drive a 1950's-era, 68hp, utility vehicle in 1998.  The guys out
driving their restored Model A's on Sundays aren't going any faster.

If you drive a car with an automatic transmission that also happens to
be fitted with a tachometer, take a look at how fast the engine is
turning at highway cruise speeds.  The small-displacement V-8 in my
Range Rover turns about 2,500 rpm at 60+ mph.  But the redline of the
engine is a over 5,000 rpm.  In 5th gear, the engine in my BMW 633csi is
turning about 2,200 rpm at 60 mph, although the redline of the engine is
a bit over 6,000 rpm.  Both the Range Rover and the BMW have engines
that are considerably more modern than the lump that's in a Series Land
Rover, yet their cruise rpm is way below their maximum rpm.  Yes, I know
both engines are considerably more powerful than the 2.25 engine so can
do much more work at a lower rpm, but we're not talking about relative
power ratings here, but simply engine wear.

I occasionally see Series Land Rovers on the highways in the Seattle
area.  Sometimes they are being driven at the speeds for which they were
designed.  But often they are out in the faster lanes, and as they pass
me, or I pass them, I can hear their engines screaming away as the
driver tries to keep up with the flow of traffic.  He probably can't
hear it given the howl of the all the transmission components under the
floor, but from outside the vehicle it's obvious the engine's being
thrashed close to its maximum.

The Series Land Rover and the 2.25 engine were designed in an era of low
road speeds.  Drive it accordingly, and both will last a long, long
time.  Drive it at today's speeds, and you're taxing every component in
the driveline, particularly the engine and transmission.  The additional
heat, pressure, vibration, etc. will all take their toll, and you'll
inevitably experience more problems.  A lot of people buy a Series Land
Rover today and think they're getting a relatively modern 4wd that
happens to look cool.  They drive it as they would a more modern vehicle
and then wonder why they're having all sorts of problems.  The reality
is that by today's standards, the Series Land Rover is an ancient
machine, and is a far cry from the 4wd made today.  But of the five
vehicles my wife and I own, my 1973 Series III has the highest "dispatch
reliability," to use an airline term.  In 25 years it has never once
quit on the road, and the only times it has failed to start is when the
battery wore out, and then I started it on the hand crank.  On the other
hand, it has required much more ongoing maintenance than my other
vehicles.  But I attribute it's impressive reliability to the fact that
we drive it today the way it was intended it to be driven in the UK 25
years ago.  Slow.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:31:56 EDT
Subject: Re: wind-bags

...What I'd REALLY like to know, is wether or not the J**P W******R has them
too! If so, HOW did they make them fit in the doors?

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:50:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Rover cars in the USA

<<Testing? Let's see how it compares to a Mk II or a 1275S...>>

Actually, they test them to see how they hold up in very hot climates, then,
they have the Feds come out, and look the car over to make sure that it
complies to U.S. regs for importation.....then unfortunately, they start
crash-testing (yep - they wipe 'em out)! I've had the privelege of driving
some pretty neat stuff at LAX - most of which probably never survived testing.
(volvo 850s, DB-7s Peugeot 306s Vauxhall Vectras,...and a 1989 Nissan 300ZXGTP
car (Group C in Europe) to name a few) Except for the race car, they usually
import upto 30 cars at a time for various tests.

About 3 years ago, Land Rover was experimenting with a 6-speed gearbox, but I
don't know what ever happened with it (heard this from a LR tech who called my
office from Arizona, looking for a package), but I know that since they didn't
return the 'boxes to the U.K., they were scrapped here (manufacturers do that
with projects they're working on, either if they aren't up to snuff, or if
they don't want people getting their hands on them yet).

Charles

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From: Paul Philippas <aurora@bam.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:26:45 -0400
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

I am looking for a 1993 Defender 110 hard top/softtop if this car actually 
exists.
I  was told they made a few for North America.
Any replies would be appreciated
Paul
owner-lro-digest@playground.sun.com wrote:

> Land-Rover-Owner List &  Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List
>         are proudly sponsored by the
>         Empire Rover Owners Society
>                 "Serving the Great State of New York, the Empire State,
>                      and former British Colonials, everywhere !"
> Tired of Too Much E-mail ?  -- Go Wired !  read this digest daily at

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 739 lines)]
> Charles
> ------------------------------
[digester: Removing section of:  > [digester: Removing section of:  
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ] ]

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From: Keith Addison <gruno@att.net.hk>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:51:38 +0800 (HKT)
Subject: Re: Iffy prop-shaft

>Keith Addison wrote:
>>There's no rotational play at all on my
>> lightweight.
>Jambo Keith,
>There certainly should be! Rotational play, that is. You should have a
>certain degree of "backlash" setting in your diffs and gearbox.
>Regards
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>Regards
>Paul Oxley

Hi Paul

109: Great!
Lightweight: Damn!

Either way, thanks very much for your help. Timely too - the lady bought
the 109 today and seems exceeding happy. (Btw, I'm eating shame because
I've forgotten what "Jambo" means, too long away from SA.)

All best

Keith Addison
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
1973 Series III Lightweight

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From: Leger Marc-Andre <ma.leger@wefa.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:01:02 -0400
Subject: Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom

I'm looking for pictures of Land Rover in Zebra paint similar to the
Mutual Of Omaha stuff that used to be on TV. Can someone point me to a
site or source of information ?

I've been all over the net, without luck.

             / ,            |                        |
        /\  \|/  /\         | Marc-Andre Leger        |
        |\\_;=._//|         | Network Eng.             |
         \."   "./          | WEFA inc.                |
         //^\ /^\\          | 800 Baldwin Tower        |
  .'``",/ |0| |0| \,"``'.   | Eddystone Pennsylvania   |
 /   ,  `'\.---./'`  ,   \  | USA                      |
/`  /`\,."(     )".,/`\  `\ | 19022                    |
/`     ( '.'-.-'.' )     `\ | (610) 490-2763           |
/"`     "._  :  _."     `"\ | mailto:ma.leger@wefa.com |
 `/.'`"=.,_``=``_,.="`'.\`  | http://www.wefa.com      |
           )   (            |                         |
 My roomate Tigger (the cat)|________________________|

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Albert Einstein  

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From: TBache9248@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:00:01 EDT
Subject: U.K. Trip

Hi All,
Apologies about the cross post, only using one gun today.
Just came back from the U.K.  R.O.V.E.R.S./WCRC got together and attended both
Billing and did a factory tour.  here is a quick synopsis:
Sat-Billing show was enormous!!  Thousands of Land Rovers of every description
filled the event grounds , parking and camping areas.  you would swear every
L-R in the U.K. was there.  Trade stands were well attended, many installing
tires on the spot.  Only saw Craddocks doing this last time.  Nice displays by
many clubs, met with Bob Morrison briefly.  Picked up items I had made prior
arrangements for.
Monday went to Warwick 4X4, clean shop, saw LHD 88" being built for an
American at Oxford U.  It was stuffed with a 3.5, they have a way to mount it
without cutting the bulk head.  A new Mazda 3.5 put into a LWB RR, etc.  this
Mazda engine is supposedly rated a 150HP+!
20 people from WCRC, ROVERS and Solihull Society toured SVO Tuesday , met up
with Rob Myers,  saw the Callaway RR's being prepped, lots of Autobiography
RR's, and some specialist applications.  A 99 Discovery "mule" was in the car
park.  In the afternoon we toured the factory, saw TempestV-8 engines and the
new computerized V-8 manufacturing equipment tells me they have a long future
for the venerable Buick.  Further on they had 5 cyl storm engines built up for
the line restart on 1999 Disvcovery and the "new" Defender!!??!!  Therfore
because of the change over they only showed us the Freelander line.  Very
little automation here, perhaps only in the body assembly and paint
departments.  They have a special area where a fellow builds new "old"engines
like the 2.25, 2.5 petrol, etc..  you can still order a brand new 2.25 if you
are so inclined.  Only Company in the world still making new/old stuff.
Strangly enough, they also still build 3.5 carb'ed engines for some markets
and also for TVR.  They build the 2.0 diesel for Honda here as well.
Our B&B was 4 miles from Gaydon/Rover Research center.  A fellow staying there
is in charge of a vehicle transport co.  If I had been home one day, I could
have been there when they moved all the Camel vehicles.  Wed in the county
park next door, they had the 50/50 Challenge Freelanders there for a photo
shoot for the press release.  Paul Entwistle now works for L-R in the P-R
Dept.   We had to buy a raffle ticket to obtain permission to photo the group!
Freelanders are plentiful on the road already-must be selling well.  Food is
not a specialty of the British-by the way most everywhere it was less than
impressive.  Photos will be up on the club sites soon and will post a note
soon so others can have a look.
Going again in 2000, start saving your money now!
Tom Bache
Avondale, PA

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From: BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:51:30 -0400
Subject: Leaf Springs

Charles LeBlanc wrote:

<I am also in the process of replacing the leaf springs on my 88. I have
<removed all of the nuts and all the bolts turn (some with a bit of
<persuasion). Some are quit clearly threaded through the shackles, others
<I am not so sure.  Are the bolts in the front horn assembly threaded to
<anything but the nuts?  Can they be pulled, knocked, persuaded out?

I just went through this last week.  Your 88" bugeye should be set up just
like my '65 88".  Shakles are tapped- must unscrew the bolts in the rear
after removing the nuts.  I made the mistake of trying to drive those bolts
out- I don't recommend it.  And definitely don't grind the heads off trying
to pound them out the other way.  I've been there, too.

The front (of the rear springs) is a different story- frame plates are not
tapped.  Once the nuts are off, the bolts should just pull through.  This
won't happen of course, because over the years those bolts have rusted to
the inside sleeve of the bushing.  I had to sacrifice my bolts in order to
remove my springs- had to cut through them on either side of the bushing.
Real pain in the *ss unless you have a Sawzall.  I'm not sure about the
front springs- mine haven't yet swollen up so badly from rust that the
leaves actually crack in two like the rear springs did.

If you can turn your bolts, you can probably drive them out, but in the
process might compress the bolt to the point where you have actually
changed the thread pitch, and won't be able to get the nut back on.  Be
gentle.

Good luck,
Ben

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:50:04 -0500
Subject: Re: How fast should I go (was overdrive question) 

C. Marin Faure wrote:
  
> The redline of the 2.25 petrol engine is 4,250 rpm.  If you drive with
> the engine turning consistently at 4,000 rpm, you are only 250 rpm away
> from its maximum rpm.  Needless to say, this is not the best way to
> prolong the life of the engine.  

	 I was guessing asto the rpms since I don't have a tach.  I'm fairly
sure that it is greater than 3000 and I was guessing 4000 at 62mph.

> Sure everyone passes me if I'm on the highway, but that's what happens when
> you drive a 1950's-era, 68hp, utility vehicle in 1998.  

	Everyone has their own time constraints.  At least once a month I
take the Series, drive 250 to 500 miles, pull into the campsite at well
after midnight friday night, drive all day Saturday day and Sunday, and
then drive the 250 to 500 miles home, pulling in again well after midnight 
and then getting to work monday morning.  The difference between 55 mph and 
65 mph can mean up to an hour less driven each way.  And many times has
been the difference between getting to camp before I fell asleep at the
wheel.

	Or it the difference between taking 3.5 days to cross the US by Rover
instead of 4.5 days.  Some can take the extra day.  In the 8 times I made
the trip by Series, I have not had that luxury of time.

	If this means that my 2.25 wears out at 150,000 miles instead of
200,000, so be it.   So far the bottom end has 102,000 miles on it since the
last rebuild without any problems.

Ben

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From: Joel Baskin <joebas@symix.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:12:40 -0400
Subject: RE: Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom

Hi there,

Don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for, but here's what ours
looks like. Please let me know if and what you do with the picture. 

 <<zeerover.jpg>> 

And here's another one we've seen.

 <<zebraRoverNat.jpg>> 
If you get other pictures, surely forward them over!

Joel Baskin
1966 IIa SWB

X-deleted-
	[Attachment zeerover.jpg removed, was 994 lines.]	X-deleted-
	[Attachment zebraRoverNat.jpg removed, was 309 lines.]	

------------------------------
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From: Norman Lewis <norm@kpco.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:54:30 -0600
Subject: Re: Chassis numbers

So what about suffix H??  Very late Ser IIa's had suffix H serial
chassis numbers, but its not on your list.  Are you sure about the
suffix F, as I seem to recall that F was skipped?

Also, there seems to be some misconception among some list members
regarding fenders and headlights.  Late IIa Land-Rovers had front
fenders which were essentially identical to those on Ser III, so if you
have a suffix G or H Ser IIa with headlights in the fenders, this is
correct for the period.  It's not likely a case of the fenders having
been changed.  Now if it's an older suffix, most likely they have been
changed.

Norm Lewis
________________________________________________-
> From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
> Date: 23 Jul 1998 11:38:00 -0400
> Subject: chassis numbers

> Suffixes in Chassis Serial numbers
> A 10/61 to 3/63
> B 3/63 to 6/65
> C 4/66 to 4/67
> D 4/67 to 3/68
> E 3/68 to 3/69
> F 3/69 to 4/69
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Axles I have A, B and F.  Dunno about CDE.
> ------------------------------

------------------------------
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From: CAPTPAYNE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:00:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Would you be angry if...

Yes, I would be angry.
Ask the service manager why it was replaced, then go from there.

Don

94D90 #1331

------------------------------
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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:12:12 -0400
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------
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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:45:30 EDT
Subject: David Ashcroft's transfer case conversion kit?

Are their any opinions on the Ashcroft conversion kit?  This allows a 32%
increase in the high range.  The price is comparable to having an overdrive
and the cost is a little less.  Installtion is probably harder than the o/d.

Their site is http://www.autoconv.com/transfer.htm#series

Seems like an excellent idea.  The vehicle I intend to use this on is a '63
Dormobile.  The motor is the original 2.25 but that may give way to an Iron
Duke and I'd like to retain the strenght of the IIA transmission.  

I'll be at Greek Peak.  As luck would have it, I have a meeting in Schenectady
on the 30th.   The timing couldn't have been better!  If anyone has a free
seat, let me know.  As Ben Smith and TeriAnn will attest, I'm a BUFF (big ugly
fat .... fellow).  I'll be in a rental car so do laugh too much!  I'm
especially looking forward to some of the eastern folks who have only been
known across the 'net for the last 4 years!

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

------------------------------
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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:57:22 -0400

subscribe lro

------------------------------
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From: "bill.di" <bill.di@mci2000.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re:  PSP Matting

Art sent:

>Bill Di sent the web site for the PSP matting--MANY THANKS!!!

You're certainly welcome!  Note that I have not yet tried something like this, 
so others may have unique thoughts on their use.  But they sure look like the 
could be worthwhile on some relatively flat and sometimes puddly roads we run 
near El 
Malpais National Monument.

When I spoke with Sherry at Calumet, she volunteered that they would pick out 
the least rusty ones to send.  So it sounds like they may have a few in pretty 
rough condition.  When ordering, it may be worth asking what kind of shape the 
pieces are in 
that they are sending.  They should at least be able to function as advertised 
- moving motorhomes on soft ground.

Bill in Albuquerque

------------------------------
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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:35:35 EDT
Subject: Series III question, oil seal, front hub area

I've been losing oil out of one side of the front hubs.  I originally thought
it was the swivel seal and ordered a couple in anticipation of changing it
tomorrow.  

After letting it sit for the last two days, I noticed that the oil leak was
perhaps a little more inward than it might be from the big oil seal on back of
the swivel housing.  

Looking at several different manuals, it appears that another seal in the
general area is the oil seal in the axle tube.  It appears this seal is to
keep oil from the diff out of the swivel and I assume it works the other way
around too.

Two questions:  does this sound feasible?  Is this the same seal as used in
the rear hub?  I have a Series IIA parts book and it is the same part number.
I assume that the Series III is no different.  Right?  (Opps..... three
questions!)

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ
'73 Series III 88" soft-top, Tigger
'63 Dormobile, HD (Humpty Dumpty/Home Depot/HeavyDuty/Hard...nevermind)
'95 Discovery, Great White

------------------------------
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From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 01:43:30 EDT
Subject: stupid remarks

"The price is comparable to having an overdrive and the cost is a little less.
"

I'm not sure what I meant to say .... too many hours at work this week.

The cost is less than what most vendors sell the o/d for but the installation
would be more difficult.  By the time you add shipping to the US, the cost is
beginning to approach that of the o/d.  

Sorry for the confusion!
Gerry "it's been a long week" Elam

------------------------------
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From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:11:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Freelander in the US?

>Nothing personal - the Freelander should look nice beside the Disco
>Did you buy the Disco based on engine knowledge?
>I think they will be here in 2001 - engine TBA.

It will be a slightly lengthened version of the Freelander than we have here
in the UK in order to accomodate the KV6 engine currently being used in the
MG. This engine is currently being built by Cosworth, but some doubt surrounds
the future of this arrangement now that it is rumored BMW  will stop providing
engines for Rolls Royce (now owned by VW / Audi who also own Cosworth).

Does that make sense? I have re-worded it twice and it still confuse me!!

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ Rolling RR chassis (awaiting the right body)

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From: "A Big Viking" <aviking1@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:03:00 PDT
Subject: CONGRATULATIONS ON A JOB WELL DONE!!!

To all the subscribers of land-rover-owner but most of all the people 
that keep it running!

I wanted to take the time and write you a sincere "THANK YOU!" note and 
congratulate you on a job well done!

Collecting automotive blueprints is one of my hobbies and it has cost me 
many years to come to the current count of 329 different prints, which 
makes it one of the most important collections in the world in private 
hands.

Since one month and 4 days I have a website which displays this 
collection. Setting up this website has cost me litterally 100's of 
hours working on my computer, all done in my leisure time.

People who have taken the effort of setting up a website themselves will 
know what I mean and I don't mean those people that have just a homepage 
showing a picture of the wife, the dog and a car!

When I do have doubles available of most of the prints, I do announce 
that these can be made available which, to most owners of such a car, is 
a nice addition to their own collection of automobilia.

Since it is financially impossible for me to have previews made of all 
329 prints at once, I have to do this in batches and take it by popular 
demand. In total, one must reackon that before a preview is actually 
loaded, it has cost me ca. USD 100.00 to get it there. Just multiply by 
329 and you get the picture...

Now, half the fun of a website is seeing traffic and getting comments 
from visitors, either positive, constructive or negative.

People can e-mail me when they have a sincere interest in seeing a 
preview of one of the prints that is not yet uploaded and I ty to get at 
least 10 new prints uploaded every week.

When I have a new preview of a particular car drawing ready , I notify 
the person that had requested that preview that it is actually uploaded.

I also notify the mailings lists that have a particular interest in that 
car... after all we share a common interest, the people on the mailing 
list in the car, and I in the print. Simple, right?

Do you feel what I am getting at?

YES, I did announce on your freaking mailing list that the preview of 
the Land Rover 88 is now uploaded and that the doubles that I have were 
available and  YES, I encouraged you to take a look at the website!

Well, thanks guys! Some guttless monster from your mailing list that did 
not even have the courage to reveal itself , complained to my e-mail 
provider that this was unsollicited e-mail and managed to get my e-mail 
account closed.

I would like to say a sincere thank you for this completely unneccessay 
action. Do you have any idea of the consequences? Do you have any idea 
what this means in man-hours that I have to put in to get a new account 
established and changing the e-mail links on over 100 webpages of my 
site?

It is common knowledge that each car, or even car model, draws it's own 
"public". In my homecoutry, the Opel Manta and Volkswagen Corrado have a 
reputation for drawing a rather dumb public. Should I base my general 
judgement on Land Rover Owners on how this mailing list has treated me? 
Does this mean that the average Land Rover Owner is an equally dumb, 
non-thinking, short-sighted opening in the lower-body?

In a few minutes time, I will have the joy to take out the remaining 
Land Rover prints, taking care to leave one each in my collection of 
course, and thoroughly enjoy seeing them going up in flames! 

So guys, if you would have liked it to have one of these prints framed 
on the wall of your study, forget it!

I hope that you are all very proud of yourselves and can brag about what 
you as a bunch of owners have accomplished!

I am explicitely asking all of you NOT to respond to this message so 
that when I do get messages in that refer to this, they will be refered 
to your provider with a complaint for sending unsollicited e-mail.

No regards whatsoever.

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