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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:30:47 -0400
Subject: Re: LAND-ROVER RANCH - A Greek Peak Ballad Honoring 50 Years of

Neil, remind me to kill you when I get time......Diplomat indeed!

               aj"Wagoneer at least!"r

------------------------------

From: K.W.L.Morgan@btinternet.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:39 0000
Subject: Club in Hertforshire

Hertfordshire club.We are revamping a club.We
will be offering Green laning,practical help
on car maintanence,fun days and weekends
away.We need lots of new members.We will be
based in the Stevenage area.e-mail me direct
for more details.
Hope to hear from you soon

------------------------------

From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:58:23 EDT
Subject: Re:Build times

In a message dated 98-07-23 07:02:41 EDT, you write:

<< I remember reading somewhere (LRO magazine I think) that Defenders take
 something like 3 times the man hours to assemble than the new Range Rover.
  >>

I think this has more to do with just how little time goes into assembling the
Range Rover, than how much time is spent on the Defender. 

I'm sure our beloved Series trucks and even early RRs have tons of man hours
in them. An inefficiency that has led to the string of buyouts. Subsequent
mods and "improvements" have made them easier to build. I'm sure they whip out
Discos with one eye shut. Either way, the new RRs and Discos are really nice.

Now that Rover is a different company altogether, the antiquated Defender has
the problem of being both an albatross and the last remaining icon of days of
yore. I bet they're dancing around the factory singing "what can we do with a
problem like De-fen-der..."  
rather, "vaht can ve do mit a prrroblem........"

Either way, you're right. When I toured the factory they told me that a
Defender takes a ton of time to build and it's even made on an entirely
different assembly line. Over near "Special Operations" in the old part of the
factory if I recall correctly. The profit margin is dramatically lower than
the others, and the NAS models are almost profit-free. Too many special US
mods and too few models shipped to reconcile. They are basically rolling
advertisements, especially the 110s. 

I miss my leafer.......
Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

------------------------------

From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:05:45 EDT
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 98-07-23 07:02:55 EDT, you write:

<< It seemed that about the only
 time meat was available was when some animal died of old age.... >>

 Or when eating in a gringo restaurant. When Jen and I were there the only
meat we got in a "locals"-type establishment in Nairobi and was listed on the
menu as "cow arm." Hmmmmmm. Plenty of veg., though.
The place where we got all of the interesting game meat (Zebra, Giraffe,
Ostrich, Topi) might as well have been a millionaires convention. All
tourists. Our dinner cost one fourth of what the average Kenyan makes in a
year, although it was super-cheap by US standards.
We drove there in a 110   <--------content!

Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

------------------------------

From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:06:25 EDT
Subject: Flesh....

--part0_901195585_boundary
Content-ID: <0_901195585@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-07-23 07:02:55 EDT, you write:

<< It seemed that about the only
 time meat was available was when some animal died of old age.... >>

 Or when eating in a gringo restaurant. When Jen and I were there the only
meat we got in a "locals"-type establishment in Nairobi and was listed on the
menu as "cow arm." Hmmmmmm. Plenty of veg., though.
The place where we got all of the interesting game meat (Zebra, Giraffe,
Ostrich, Topi) might as well have been a millionaires convention. All
tourists. Our dinner cost one fourth of what the average Kenyan makes in a
year, although it was super-cheap by US standards.
We drove there in a 110   <--------content!

Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

--part0_901195585_boundary--

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:09:32 +0100
Subject: Re:Build times

 >factory if I recall correctly. The profit margin is dramatically lower
than
 >the others, and the NAS models are almost profit-free. Too many special
US
 >mods and too few models shipped to reconcile. They are basically rolling
 >advertisements, especially the 110s.

Which would explain why they're not selling an NAS spec vehicle at the
moment - the pound is too darned high, that they'd make a loss on it.

Rover announced a few 1000 redundancies yesterday, btw. Blamed on the high
pound and some utterancy about production costs.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:39:14 +1000
Subject: Re: don't nick that tyre (Tire)

Ron wrote:

>I put a Mitsubishi L300 4wd wheel with Desert Dueler tyre that had lots of
>tread (about 1/4") out in front of my place, leaning against a tree.  And
>noone took it.  It was there for days.
>Eventually, I had to paint the word "FREE" on it before it went - and it
>still took another day.

Richard replied"
>Maybe it was that great big rotweiller that you also had tied up to the
>tree (if you'd tied it to the tyre someone would probably have stolen the
>tree)  :-)

Mate, I'm a Rangie owner,  So what dogs would we have?  A labrador (cream)
of course. 8-)
Plus we are puppy-walking a 7-month old golden retriever for the Guide Dog
Society.
So around our place you'll get licked to death, or possibly beaten to death
by wagging tails.  

Ron

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:41:27 +0100
Subject: Re: don't nick that tyre (Tire)

>So around our place you'll get licked to death, or possibly beaten to
death
>by wagging tails.

Ahhh, the armour-plated Labrador tail strikes again!

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:11:41 +0100
Subject: Billing

Well, I bloody enjoyed it!

Anyone else go, there's absolutely no Billing talk here recently........

Neil

SIII '74 2.25 Petrol SHJ 299M - 'Robin' (USS Reliant NCC1864)
Ford Explorer 4.0i '98 NIB 4318 - 'Why do all my passengers grab their seats
when I accelerate?'
Daewoo Lanos 1.4 '98 - 'Kids must go to nursery!'

------------------------------

From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:27:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Series IIA and a half?

Sean,

Your '71 Ser.2A sounds a lot like my '70 Ser.2A.  It has Ser.3 wings, Ser.3
seats, ser.2a dash, wire mesh grill.

Ray

I recently came into possession of a new toy, but I can't exactly pin down
what it is.  At first, I made the ass-umption that it was a Series III
because it sported a plastic grill and had fender headlights.  However, it
also has a metal dash with black instrument panels.  The chassis number is
in the 11,000 range and says that it's a IIa, but has a B at the end of
the chassis number, so it must be a fairly late one.  The plates are
E-reg, but it wasn't registered until September of 1971.  Other oddities
include a factory Fairey overdrive.  Is this just a bit of previous owner
conglomeration?

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory Universit

------------------------------

From: "Stude, Herman L." <hermans@krts.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:37:27 -0500
Subject: Carnivore

> The place where we got all of the interesting game meat (Zebra, Giraffe,
> Ostrich, Topi) might as well have been a millionaires convention. All
> tourists. Our dinner cost one fourth of what the average Kenyan makes in a
> year, although it was super-cheap by US standards.
> We drove there in a 110   <--------content!

Wouldn't have been The Carnivore on the outskirts of Nairobi, didn't go
there, but heard about it.  I was cruising about in an SIII diesel 88.

Herman
Just got the rust removal and paint estimate from my local body shop for
my SIII 88, OUCH!!!

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:47:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Series IIA and a half?

And suspiciously like a SIIA station wagon I helped change a clutch on at
the weekend.

Well, we got halfway, and it turned out the clutch was the wrong size...

This was a J-reg, which would make it 1970/71.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

"Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com> on 07/23/98 02:27:42 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: Series IIA and a half?

Sean,

Your '71 Ser.2A sounds a lot like my '70 Ser.2A.  It has Ser.3 wings, Ser.3
seats, ser.2a dash, wire mesh grill.

Ray

I recently came into possession of a new toy, but I can't exactly pin down
what it is.  At first, I made the ass-umption that it was a Series III
because it sported a plastic grill and had fender headlights.  However, it
also has a metal dash with black instrument panels.  The chassis number is
in the 11,000 range and says that it's a IIa, but has a B at the end of
the chassis number, so it must be a fairly late one.  The plates are
E-reg, but it wasn't registered until September of 1971.  Other oddities
include a factory Fairey overdrive.  Is this just a bit of previous owner
conglomeration?

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory Universit

------------------------------

From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:03:46 -0400
Subject: Rover News

See headline at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_company_file/newsid_13700  
0/137602.stm

Peter Goundry (just back from Billings)
67 GS109" IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Overdrive advice pls 

In message <bulk.29631.19980722192441@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> Essentially their arguments were that OD's were not needed with 16" wheels,
> that they stressed the gearbox, wouldn't last more than 40K miles, and were
> of limited value for the money.  They also said that the most effective
> performance enhancement I could add to my machine was a Zenith carb and to
> forget the overdrive.

	I've had 2 Fairy Overdrives on my Series III.  The first lasted
75,000 miles and about 5 years.   It died when it spun the layshaft.  When
I tallied up the price of parts to rebuild it properly, the cost was about
the same as a new unit.

	My second Overdrive lasted about 23,000 miles and 2 years.  It died
when the gear engaging the output shaft of the tranny to the mainshaft of
the OD stripped pulling away from a stop sign.   The cost to replace the two
parts is on the order of $300 (RN prices) and I haven't gotten to it yet.

	My Series III currently has 32" tyres.  Without the OD I have a
self imposed top speed of about 62 mph.  At that speed I'm turning about
4000 rpm (or at least it seems that way to me).  Around town I don't notice
the lack of the OD.   Nor do I on the trail.  However it is usually a 4 to 6
hour drive for me to get to the trails, there I miss it.  With the OD, I 
could cruise at 70mph on the flats.   Last fall I did a 700 mile
drive each way to a competion in Oregon.  Some Discos and D90s convoyed 
with me.  I think they would have been happier if we could have gotten up
to the speed limit.

	So it all depends upon what you do with your LR.  For me, rebuilding
OD #2 or buying #3 is in the plans -- But I log a lot of freeway miles.
The savings for increast fuel economy was offset by the price of new overdrives.
The only added benifit was decreased driving time. 

	As for the OD stressing the gearbox, usually the argument is the
otherway around.  Most people think that the Fairy OD is too weak.	

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: "Chris Dillard" <cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:18:33 -0400
Subject: Disco Alternative Seat Covers

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions about alternatives to LRNA $$$
Waterproof seatcovers. Although I'm not sure what direction I'll take. It
kind of sounds like it's "best" to just take the plunge and go for the LRNA
covers (for thelong run). I'll have to consult she who controls the
checkbook. Anyway, thanks!!

Cheers,
Christopher Dillard
Database Administrator        Phone: 864-987-8633
BONUSCARD Marketing           Fax:  864-675-5456
Ahold USA (BI-LO Inc.)        E-Mail:cdillard@aholdusa.com
Greenville SC USA             www.bi-lo.com

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:19:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Build times 

In message <bulk.9864.19980723050711@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
  
> Which would explain why they're not selling an NAS spec vehicle at the
> moment - the pound is too darned high, that they'd make a loss on it.

	 You can not sell 1998 cars in the US without airbags.  According to
LR the D90 firewall is not strong enough for airbags.  I would think that the
decision not to sell the D90 in the US is more of a cost of re-engineering
vs limited sales decision.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: LEBLANC_CJ 
</DD.XMRROUTE=Leblanc#l#u#r#Cj#l#a#r#AM#l#a#r#I22005/@csc-scc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 23 Jul 1998 14:21:36 +0000
Subject: Wise Owl/Leaf Springs

Howdy 

I am also in the process of replacing the leaf springs on my 88. I have
removed all of the nuts and all the bolts turn (some with a bit of
persuasion). Some are quit clearly threaded through the shackles, others
I am not so sure.  Are the bolts in the front horn assembly threaded to
anything but the nuts?  Can they be pulled, knocked, persuaded out?

To Paul Quin

For whatever reason I cannot reach through e-mail.  I am very interested
in the Wise Owl brochure and or their phone number.  Could you please
fax their brochure or e-mail their number or both.

Thanks

Charles LeBlanc
88 Bug Eye (Bugger?) 

e-mail  CHARLES.LEBLANC@ATL.csc-scc.csc-scc.x400.gc.ca
fax     506-379-4616

   

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:25:32 -0500
Subject: RE: don't nick that tyre (Tire)

>Mate, I'm a Rangie owner,  So what dogs would we have?  A labrador (cream)
>of course. 8-)
>Plus we are puppy-walking a 7-month old golden retriever for the Guide Dog
>Society.
>So around our place you'll get licked to death, or possibly beaten to death
>by wagging tails.
>Ron

The problem I have with dogs is that I cant get them into a car. The last
two I have had would prefer to get hit by one rather than coming into it.
 a sweet Belgian Shepard and a paranoic Australian Shepard)

------------------------------

From: Elwyn York <eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:36:31 +0100
Subject: Weston Park Info

8-9th of August. Venue is Weston Park, 1/2 way between Cannock
& Telford on the A5. Addmission 4.50 adults, 2.00 child, camping on site
is extra.
Massive autojumble 25.00 per pitch for 2 days.

Attractions include:- 200' mud run, 8x8, 6x6, 4x4. Military vehicles
Charity 4x4 off road course, pubpic off road course, National final of
the 'Adam Jenkins 4x4 challenge'
Central areana, kids shows, club stands covering all types of 4x4.
Friday night cabaret (free), Saturday night kids disco followed by adult
disco.
Quads, buggies. stalls, etc.
Last years show was great.

------------------------------

From: Scott Wilson <scott@scratchstudio.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:52:07 -0400
Subject: RE: Build times 

> You can not sell 1998 cars in the US without airbags.  According to
> LR the D90 firewall is not strong enough for airbags.  

Hmm... Assuming I could afford a D90, how long would it take for me
to do something stupid and get an airbag in my face? Probably not very
long.

-Scott

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:53:27 +0000
Subject: Re: Series IIA and a half?

>This was a J-reg, which would make it 1970/71.

Same year as my 88" diesel (sep '70 to be precise).
9 1/2" clutch on the diesel,9" on the petrol,but 9 1/2" as optional extra.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "John Baker" <daddyo@loxinfo.co.th>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:53:00 +0700
Subject: 7:1 / 8:1 How to Tell?

Can anyone tell me how to identify if I have a 8:1 or 7:1 head? I saw
something a while back on this but it didn't help me, and besides, I can't
remember what was said! I have a Series III 109 circa 1975, engine number
90425479C. 

Regards,

John M. Baker

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:04:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 7:1 / 8:1 How to Tell?

Look at the cylinder head -  the bolt head area nearest the carburettor
should be an oversized flat area - the number (7 or 8) should be stamped
(in the case of mine, barely legibly) into it.

If there's no extended flat area, it's an older 7:1 head.

Of course, Murphy only knows what a previous owner may have done to it...
try a compression test to be sure.

                         ajr

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:11:26 +0100
Subject: Re: Series IIA and a half?

I think the clutch was the correct diameter, but the fork thingy for the
bearing was wrong.
Hence, the supplied bearing was the wrong thickness or something. I didn't
look too closely at that bit.
We were working on 3 landies - including the genny swap on mine!

The guy who got the clutch was going to get a replacement - he's done fare
more clutches than any of the rest of us put together, so I'm sure he'll
get the right bit this time!
The truck belonged to his father, and he thought it was a SIII!

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) on 07/23/98 04:53:27 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: Series IIA and a half?

>This was a J-reg, which would make it 1970/71.

Same year as my 88" diesel (sep '70 to be precise).
9 1/2" clutch on the diesel,9" on the petrol,but 9 1/2" as optional extra.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:46:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Bellhousing plug

From: Keith Cutler <keith_cutler@csgsystems.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:07:07 -0600
Subject: Re: Bellhousing Plug (Ben Nibali) and Paint Colors (Steve
Parker)

>Also, regarding the wading plug in the bellhousing: do you put it in
only when crossing water?  I've read that it should be left out under
normal conditions to provide an escape route for any oil that leaks into
the bellhousing so as to not damage the clutch.  Seems like a lot of oil
to me!

Do NOT leave the wading plug in place unless you are actually going to
go wading.  As the rear engine oil seal wears out, it will allow oil to
make its way into the bell housing.  If it cannot seep out via the
wading plug hole, it will accumulate.  If enough accumulates to get onto
the clutch, you're clutch will either be ruined or will need to be
overhauled.  Either way, you'll have to disconnect the transmission and
slide it back.  So leave the wading plug out unless you're going to be
driving in water deep enough to warrant its installation, and then take
it out as soon as possible after that.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "Kenner, Dixon" <Dixon.Kenner@ms.rc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 23 Jul 1998 11:38:00 -0400
Subject: chassis numbers

Sean writes -

> recently came into possession of a new toy, but I can't exactly pin down
>what it is.  At first, I made the ass-umption that it was a Series III
>because it sported a plastic grill and had fender headlights.  However, it
>also has a metal dash with black instrument panels.  The chassis number is
>in the 11,000 range and says that it's a IIa, but has a B at the end of
>the chassis number, so it must be a fairly late one.  The plates are
>E-reg, but it wasn't registered until September of 1971.  

Could be a Late IIA with the wire grille replaced with the
plastic thingie. It could also be a III front stuck on the IIA

Suffixes in Chassis Serial numbers
A 10/61 to 3/63
B 3/63 to 6/65
C 4/66 to 4/67
D 4/67 to 3/68
E 3/68 to 3/69
F 3/69 to 4/69
G 4/69 to 10/71 (Series III into)

Engines went from A to K suffixes
Gearboxes A to F
Axles I have A, B and F.  Dunno about CDE.

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:23:29 EDT
Subject: Re: 7:1 / 8:1 How to Tell?

<<..the bolt head nearest the carburetor should have an oversized flat
area...>>

I was told by BP, that this alone indicates a high compression head. Heads
without it, are low compression.

Charles

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:32:26 -0600
Subject: PSP matting

Bill Di sent they web site for the PSP matting--MANY THANKS!!!

I had a "Source" for this while still in the Air Force, but like a
dummy, I didn't "borrow" a few sheets then. This stuff would be ideal
for Land Rovers on soft soil-they may runways ought of it!!! (Picture
the stress's of a B-17 landing on it- A Land Rover shouldn't faze it!!!)

Again Thanks-First of the month I'm ordering 2 planks!( Wish I would
have had it at Steamboat!!-would have kept a lot of us getting stuck!!)

Art Bitterman
1960 SII,88",RHD "The Beast"
Now bumperless-great approach angle, but bugger all for front end
protection!!
Website http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6339/

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--------------C11CF77A8E8E7C5E7F5EDCB6--

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:35:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Build times

<<According to LR the firewall is not strong enough for airbags...>>

Huh?

The firewall isn't the problem - it's where to put them in the doors! (side
air bags are required now)

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is: if you get T-boned in your D-90
by the average-size city bus, you're screwed anyway! An airbag surely won't
slow down your demise in this situation, and granted I've only been into Land
Rovers for the past 5 years, I would venture to say that there haven't really
been enough accidents involving them to make side airbags mandatory in this
type of vehicle. (if somebody has stats, please post them)

As I said on the importing thread - it all boils down to money - the cost of
making ONE market happy (legally speaking) by re-designing their product,
versus the existing cost of importing to that market. If the final selling
price doesn't match what it took to get the truck there (or what would be
acceptable as profit), then they won't be sending too many to that market, for
too long.

Charles

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Art Bitterman <artbitt@rmi.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:44:02 -0600
Subject: Team.net.Stuff

Bill

If the 'Stuff" is still availiable after the Rally, put me down for a
T-shirt (XL) One can never have too many Land Rover T-shirts!

Art Bitterman
1960 SII,88",RHD "The Beast"
Missing front bumper-great approach angle,but bugger all for front end
protection!!
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6339/

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--------------A7B481B9AC3D5D628E218783--

------------------------------

From: Elwyn York <eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:03:17 +0100
Subject: Towing Electrics - Cables & Laws

OK. I have looked at the cable for the towing hookup at the back. The cable
seems naff condition from the hookup to about where it is tied up at the
chassis. From there it is attatched all the way along to the chassis to
just under the seat box, where I lost the trail of the cable.  Can anyone
say where this cable goes. It's an S3 Lightweight.  Any ideas?

When I put the cable in, would it be possible to put a small box in, say
plastic that is watertight, holding the connections safe and dry, and where
is the best place to put this. Bearing in mind it would have to be secured
down somewhere.  Like, Chassis or attatched to the body.

Also, is it now currently legeslation that if I am towing I need to have an
AUDIOABLE warning. I have the light on the dash - yellow/amber (next to the
indicator - its an S2 Dash, but my brother says I have to have a sound
warning. I don't think so. Anyone?

Cheers for now
See you all at Weston Park

Elwyn
S3 '72 (Dented) Lightweight. "Green Brick"
Eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk & Http://www.ey-eg.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:38:35 -0400
Subject: Re: 7:1 / 8:1 How to Tell?

>I was told by BP, that this alone indicates a high compression head. Heads
>without it, are low compression.
>Charles

I  wish it did. I have a 7:1 engine from my daughter's 88 that has the boss
- and proudly has a 7 stamped on it to indicate 7:1 compression.

Personally, I think that they take he dodgy castings and keep shaing them
till they're usable - then they call those 8:1...*)

                         ajr

------------------------------

From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:21:55 -0400
Subject: FW: Rover News

Sorry folks, it seems as though the list puts part of the URL on the 
following line. Make sure you include the
< 0/137602.stm> with the full address. Or lop the <newsid_13700> from 
the URL when you get Object not found.
Cheers

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:21:03 EDT
Subject: Greek Peak

As luck would have it, I have to attend a meeting in Schenectady on the 30th.
Instead of returning on the 31st to PHX, I think I'll take the scenic route
through Cortland and return to PHX on Sunday.

What a deal!  I won't have the benefit of a Land Rover instead I'll be forced
to slum in a rental car.  If anyone wants a passenger for any of the rides,
let me know!  I'm a "BUFF" so I can't squeeze into the back of anything execpt
a 110 or 101.  (BUFF:  big-ugly-fat-f$%*#)  

I'm not sure where I'll stay or eat but that doesn't seem to be an issue in
that area.   If anyone wants to share a rental, let me know too.  Otherwise,
I'll make reservations this weekend.  

See everyone then!  This is going to be great!
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:24:31 -0500
Subject: Re: chassis numbers 

In message <bulk.16604.19980723085619@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:
  
> Suffixes in Chassis Serial numbers
> A 10/61 to 3/63
> B 3/63 to 6/65
> C 4/66 to 4/67
> D 4/67 to 3/68
> E 3/68 to 3/69
> F 3/69 to 4/69
> G 4/69 to 10/71 (Series III into)

	This is for the normal range of Serial numbers for SIIA built from
1961 on.  For things like the NADA 109, which were built from 1967 to 1971,
they started the suffix with A in 1967.   

	Just to add to the confusion.

Ben

------------------------------

From: Keith Addison <gruno@att.net.hk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 02:12:38 +0800 (HKT)
Subject: Re: Carnivore

>> The place where we got all of the interesting game meat (Zebra, Giraffe,
>> Ostrich, Topi) might as well have been a millionaires convention. All
>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
>> year, although it was super-cheap by US standards.
>> We drove there in a 110   <--------content!
>Wouldn't have been The Carnivore on the outskirts of Nairobi, didn't go
>there, but heard about it.  I was cruising about in an SIII diesel 88.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>there, but heard about it.  I was cruising about in an SIII diesel 88.
>Herman

I went to the Carnivore, I got taken there by a bunch of locals I'd just
done some work for, the Consumer Association in fact - and wow, did we ever
consume! It was excellent! Sure, well beyond the average means but there
were lots of Kenyans there, not so many whites. I wouldn't say it was a
tourist trap. I'd definitely recommend it.

Oh, I was driving a borrowed and beaten-up old Suzuki 4x4.

All best

Keith Addison
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
1973 Series III Lightweight

------------------------------

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:23:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Aluminum Badness - My Fix (plans as yet, anyway...)

Hi Charles -

>I have some badness where the one of the two brackets from the rear
>frame member bolts to the tub. The aluminum of the tub at that location
>is not great.

>What caused this problem?
The two dissimilar metals are reacting , the Al is essentally "rusting"
from the steel and O2.

>How can I remedy it?
First seperate the metals. If you've got a sand or bead-blaster, clean it
down to bare Al with that (be carefull here - don't heat it up too much!).
Then go to your local industrial supply house and buy some Devcon Al-filled
epoxy (putty - not the liquid stuff). Follow the Devcon directions  - then
sand flush, primer and paint.

>What can I do to prevent it from happening in the future?
Put something in between the two metals, like a thin piece of plastic (buy
some teflon sheeting at the industrial store too - maybe 1/16 to 1/32 in.
thick).

Have Fun - (I'll be doing this to my  bed  corrosion after the "Peak"
weekend - I'll have some advice after that.)  (BTW - Devcon also makes
steel filled epoxy and all sorts of other types of gooo.)

Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:22:41 -0500
Subject: RE: Carnivore

>were lots of Kenyans there, not so many whites. I wouldn't say it was a
>tourist trap. I'd definitely recommend it.

" Oh, I was driving a borrowed and beaten-up old Suzuki 4x4."
 
That you should not tell!!!!
:-)

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

------------------------------

From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:35:50 -0600
Subject: Re: Carnivore

At 02:12 AM 24/07/98 +0800, Keith Addison, wrote
 I wouldn't say it was a
>tourist trap. I'd definitely recommend it.

Me too.  It's a terrific place but it can be hard to get into depending on
the night.  A lot of the better off Kenyans eat there along with the running
shoe, blue hair, tourist types.

The location is a bit interesting.  The back door of the Carnivore opens
onto the Nairobi Game Park.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

------------------------------

From: Keith Elliott <landy@ican.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:08:41 -0400
Subject: RE: gearbox, how warm is normal? - Heat Sheilds - Aluminium

Hi Paul...

    I have heard from people in the past that these heat shields are not a 
great idea as they trap the heat around the exhaust manifold which leads to it 
cracking. I guess this used to be a common problem that led to people removing 
them and 
resolving the problem. Something you might want to try instead is buying some 
exhaust wrap. I think it is made from asbestos or something and wraps around 
the exhaust pipe.

Keith 
'61 Series II 88"
Ottawa

P.S. Checked out your recent pic on your home page :) Congrats on getting it 
mobile.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:21:35 -0700
Subject: RE: gearbox, how warm is normal? - Heat Sheilds - Aluminium

Hi Peter,

I don't have my parts books with me right now but the heat shield that I
am talking about was a factory part that bolts on to the manifold and
extends down between the manifold and footwell area.  I haven't seen one
in a long time, but I remember that they kind of looked like they were
made out of asbestos..!!  Any body know for sure?

Anyway they were a standard LR part so they should be obtainable from
any parts supplier...unless they've been declared hazardous material and
banned...

Paul in Victoria.

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:09:43 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re:  6000 miles in 3 weeks (kind of wordy)

Ralph, 
Sorry I missed you, too, but I was glad you were out there keeping the fire
away from where I was staying and driving.  Thanks.  And I'll be out that way
again, mark my words.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Justin Gassaway <jgassaway@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:17:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Freelander in the US?

When is the Freelander comming to the US?  What kind of engine will it
have?

Thanks, Justin
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:28:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Freelander in the US?

Nothing personal - the Freelander should look nice beside the Disco

Did you buy the Disco based on engine knowledge?

I think they will be here in 2001 - engine TBA.

David

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:17:09 -0300
Subject: Re: Windowless side panels for 109 PU

Wolfe, Charles wrote:
> My standard 109 is now operating as a Pickup but I think I will be using
> my safari top and using it as a three door.  Did they ever make long
> side panel with out windows for the standard 109?
> The reason I ask is that I will be using the pickup as a dog truck.  I
> will need to make a six or eight compartment unit to bolt over the bed
> of the truck under the safari roof.  If I could come up with some solid
> windowless panels, it would make this conversion easier.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> windowless panels, it would make this conversion easier.
> cwolfe
 They did indeed make windowless hardtops for the 109 but in North
America they are almost impossible to find. You might some that have
windows and then blockout the window area.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:26:46 -0300
Subject: Re: Wise Owl/Leaf Springs

LEBLANC_CJ wrote:
> Howdy
> I am also in the process of replacing the leaf springs on my 88. I have
> removed all of the nuts and all the bolts turn (some with a bit of
> persuasion). Some are quit clearly threaded through the shackles, others
> I am not so sure.  Are the bolts in the front horn assembly threaded to
> anything but the nuts?  Can they be pulled, knocked, persuaded out?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
> e-mail  CHARLES.LEBLANC@ATL.csc-scc.csc-scc.x400.gc.ca
> fax     506-379-4616
  
The phone number for Wise Owl is 604 921 7277
  Great folks to deal with.
     John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:35:05 -0700
Subject: RE: Wise Owl/Leaf Springs

Wise owl also no has a toll free number: 888-880-2600.

Paul.

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:37:44 -0400
Subject: Hard top panels

The standard hard top for a three door 109 was not fitted with side windows,
early models were also not fitted with the small windows on the sides at the
rear.Used sides are plentiful in the UK, don't know about over here in the
States. I paid 40 quid ( approx $64 ) for my complete hard top. 
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:24:10 -0400
Subject: Re(2): chassis numbers 

bens@psasolar.colltech.com writes:
>	This is for the normal range of Serial numbers for SIIA built from
>1961 on.  For things like the NADA 109, which were built from 1967 to
>1971,
>they started the suffix with A in 1967.   

Ok, mine is chassis number 24114765B, engine number 22XAKAD1380, reg plate
EVK358K.

I understand that the 241 in the chassis number indicates a IIa and it
looks like an early one at that.  So why in the hell would someone put a
III front on a perfectly good IIa?

I guess I'll have to get a history on this bugger and see where it's
really from.  I should probably check the engine and gearbox and such to
see where they're from.

Sean P. Murphy
Project Director, LearnLink
Emory University

------------------------------

From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 00:02:00 EDT
Subject: Defender/Series winch bumper FS

For sale:
TJM winch bumper for Defender 90/110. Probably fits Series trucks too, but not
sure. Has been mounted on vehicle for 3 weeks, but winch never added. Like new
condition. Bumper only, no bull bar, but factory bull bar will work with
slight mod.
Asking $390.
Will be going to Greek Peaks and can deliver there, or can mail.

Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

------------------------------

From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:47:04 +0100
Subject: Diesel Tank Repair

During my rebuilding process I have run into a leaking diesel tank.
What are my chances of repairing it? I guess I could flush it out with 
water, grind of the outer skin and weld the tank with my Tig 
machine and/or flush it with some tank sealing stuff (which might not 
be obtainable in Holland?).
Any thoughts/advice on this one?

Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

------------------------------

From: Kuhl Dennis <Dennis.Kuhl@hvr.siemens.de>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:27:15 +0200
Subject: AW: Diesel Tank Repair

> ----------
> Von: 	Huub Pennings[SMTP:hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl]
> Antwort an: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Gesendet: 	Freitag, 24. Juli 1998 10:47
> An: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Betreff: 	Diesel Tank Repair
> During my rebuilding process I have run into a leaking diesel tank.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> be obtainable in Holland?).
> Any thoughts/advice on this one?
	I had a leaking diesel tank too on my SIII.
	The chance of repairing it depends on how far the rust has gone.
	The bottom of the Tank has a second plate under it for protection. I
welded the two plates together and stoppet the leaking , knowing that it is
not for long time. 

	In germany it is nearly the same Price to by a new Tank than to
rebuilt it with sealing. 
	So I saving my money to replace it some day. 

	If You by a new Tank make shure tha you protect the space between
the Tank Bottom and the Protection plate wich a good layer of wax or so. 

	By 

> Dennis Kuhl   
> Owner 109 SIII  1980 SANTANA SW
> dennis.kuhl@hvr.siemens.de
> dennis@i-lab.de  
> An: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Betreff: 	Diesel Tank Repair
> During my rebuilding process I have run into a leaking diesel tank.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
> dennis.kuhl@hvr.siemens.de
> dennis@i-lab.de  

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:58:23 +1000
Subject: Difference in SII and SIIA

Mitch Stockdale wrote:
>If you have the SII 2.25, you have a boat anchor waiting to
>happen.  You cant get bearings for it any more.  No rebuild
>buddy.

They are listed in the Four Wheel Drives catalogue in Australia.  Mians SII
A$55 (US$35) set of three, thrust bearings A$10 pair (US$6.20)

>Original SII exhaust manifold. NLA, not even the front pipe
>is available if you want to use the original manifold

The front pipe is also listed - providing it is the straight down pipe.

Regards,
Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
'86 Range Rover 4.8L auto  "The Last Aquila"
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc auto
check my web site at www.users.bigpond.com/hillman

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 05:03:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US(cars...)

I was talking with a Customs agent/friend of mine at work today, and she
mentioned that either KLM, or Lufthansa (possibly both - she thinks), just
brought some NEW Rover cars into the U.S. for testing. She didn't know what
models they were, but that they resembled a Lexus/Infiniti type of sedan, and
that the emblems were all covered, as were other parts of the cars.

She said, that they are going to Arizona for testing (where Rover does nearly
all their hot weather tests - as do other European manufacturers), and U.S.
certification!

Looks like the ball is rolling...

Charles
P.S. They were definately Rovers, because my friend knows of my "addiction" to
English cars, and she remembered them because she didn't know that Rover made
cars...and because she had to examine them.

------------------------------

From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@magnet.mt>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:30:39 +0100
Subject: RE:Noisy FWH?

This is only my opinion but I think that there is some wear and tear that if 
spinning will keep it from knocking around.  Now that it is stationary it will 
begin to rattle in place.

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

Adrian Redmond:
>Why should sing free wheel hubs (AVM 405/6) in 4x2 mode make the
>transfer box rattle/ring more? (SIII diesel 88")
>any ideas?
>Adrian Redmond
>CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
>e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
>Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@magnet.mt>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:35:24 +0100
Subject: RE:"withdraw the stub axle"... hah!

If ou have already read one of the bearings in hub disintegrated and the shaft 
and stub axle were nearly welded together.  

>From what I saw the stube axle hole is bigger than the splines on the shaft.  
This I can say as I saw it first hand and also from the diagrams of the Haynes 
Manual.  

I cannot see how the splines on the shaft are ticker than the stub axle.

Also better replace those b**o*y bearings while you are there as these can lead 
to serious consequences!!! :-(

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

Axel Pawlik:
>So, in my quest to fix the leaking brake master I have one
>more part loose and dangling...
>I want to remove the stub axe to try and press the 
>stuck hub bearing off. So now the stub axle is disconnected
>from the swivel pin housing, only to bump against the (slightly
>thicker) end of the axle shaft splines.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
>stub axle". Hmm. Any ideas?
>       thanks, Axel (and the slowly desintegrating '68 SWB SIIa)

------------------------------

From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@magnet.mt>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:39:40 +0100
Subject: RE:Re: "withdraw the stub axle"... hah!

I am just asking but I have two bearings in the hub not one!!!!

Am I correct or not :-o

Thanks
Geoffrey 
Malta

Axel Pawlik:
>>They aren't a press fit to begin with, so once you break the binding they
>tend 
>>to work off, then you clean up the shaft w/ a file and some emery cloth.
>>The splines on the end of the axle should not be bigger than the I.D. of the 
>>stub axle. If they are then something is terribly wrong, or it is not a LR 
>>part... 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
>>part... 
>they were, by maybe 1.5 mm. Just at the outer edge. 
>Anyway, a bit of filing worked wonders. 
>Now that I could tackle the bearing properly, that
>came off, too. Now it's back to cleaning and reassembly.
>       cheer, Axel

------------------------------

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