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From: Steve Whetstone <whetston@mail.ameritel.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:50:42 -0400
Subject: 64 SWB Diesel Station Wagon for sale

1964 Diesel SW 56k original miles.
I am 3rd owner.  Bought the vehicle as a project, and have not
had time to work on it in the last 2 years.  I have over $8500
tied up in it.  I hate to think about selling, but with my 18 month
old daughter I probably won't have time for it in the foreseeable future.

This is a project that needs completion.  Everything is there.
Full Safari Roof.  7 seats.  Kodiak Heater.  Original paperwork when
bought new.  The vehicle is currently in a rolling chassis state.  I have
a full folder of receipts from Rovers North for parts.

Engine runs well.  Fires up in 1-2 seconds after several months since
last starting.  Rebuilt Injection Pump & original in box.  Spare set
of injectors.  Needs valve seals.

Chassis has been reworked (new horns & rear crossmember) and
painted.  New springs, shocks, axle seals, swivel balls, wheel
cylinders, brake pads, radiator, brake lines.
Factory Shop & Parts manuals.

Parts not currently installed
Foot wells, door pillars for bulkhead.
Seals for doors, top, etc.
Master Cylinder
Much more...

Vehicle is located in southern Maryland.

$4250 /reasonable offer

Steve Whetstone
whetston@mail.ameritel.net

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:54:00 -0400
Subject: Camels?

John Cranfield writes "All this is purely academic for me I'm too old anyway
and they don't .........Camels in Canada.

John, or others, can you please supply the missing word as this statement
left me confused :-)

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 05:09:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Nicked again

>Ah Ha now if you'll just tell me where you have parked the car I'll be
>off!
>    John and Muddy

Thanks for the confession in writing.  But you will have to find the fuel 
selector first.

I don't worry to much about someone jumping in the car and driving off.  
First it is not very fast and it's not like it can hide from the police 
quickly.  It doesn't blend in to the other traffic well.  Besides very 
few people know what to do if the key doesn't turn on the starter motor.  
My worry is the guy with the tow truck.  There is no way to stop him.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:18:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Nicked again

If they want it, they've got it.

My mate had a Harley, the theives managed to bypass three alarms and 2
chains - never mind the disc lock. It was cut and loaded in under a minute
by all accounts - into a van - into bits - into Europe - the end.

Funnily enough he never saw it again....

In the UK here, I have the attitude, if the security stop the occassional
theif - excellent - IT WILL NEVER DETER THE PRO. In Northampton a few years
ago, there was a nick to order spate, identical model cars all disappeared
one night, all secure, all alarmed - NONE WERE TRANSPORT PROOF.

It's the world we live in guys!

Just make sure you don't leave anything that looks expensive in view of the
public, that will prevent broken windows and all that hassle.

Neil

SIII '74 2.25 Petrol SHJ 299M - 'Robin' (USS Reliant NCC1864)
Ford Explorer 4.0i '98 NIB 4318 - 'Why do all my passengers grab their seats
when I accelerate?'
Daewoo Lanos 1.4 '98 - 'Kids must go to nursery!'

------------------------------

From: "Andy Woodward" <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:25:18 +0100
Subject: Landies & Beetles

\So, how do you persuade someone who fancies getting a VW 
\Beetle, to get a
L\andy?
\
\This is a student lady uttering words like "I quite fancy a Beetle to
\fiddle with" [rather than a newish Astra]

Tell her she'll have to do a lot more fiddling with a Landrover........

------------------------------

From: "Andy Woodward" <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:25:17 +0100
Subject: Re: Braking Mystery

>There is then clear access to the bleed nipple and a tube can be 
easily
>attached for bleeding. I used a 5 foot length of neoprene tube, 
from the
>beer making kit, held high with croc clips and string to the garage
>roof. This stops any air getting back into the system and also any 
fluid
>going all over the place (most times!).

Why not simply feed it back into the fluid reservoir?

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:33:58 +1000
Subject: Joseph Whitworth (No LR)

Look, poor old Joseph Whitworth has taken a bagging lately so I found this
text from the book "Drills, Taps and Dies" by Tubal Cain.  (Well known to
anyone who reads Model Engineer magazine).

If you read it, you'll find that Whitworth did a great job in coming up with
his standard.  Also I've added a few notes about the BA thread - also from
the same book.

I know it's not LR but...

Ron

     Joseph Whitworth's approach was quite
   different.  He was aiming at a "Universal"
   standard, so that a bolt
   made in Birmingham would fit a nut
   made in Bristol.  At that time (c.1840)
   the situation was chaotic.  Not only did
   different makers use different thread-
   forms, pitches etc., but even within the
   same firm it was not uncommon to find
   that nuts would fit only the bolts they
   were made with, as anyone who has
   dismantled an engine from that period
   will have found out.  He wrote to all the
   major builders of engineering mach-
   inery and collected details of their
   threads.  He averaged the pitches so
   found at 1/4, 1/2, 1 and 1-1/2in. diameter,
   working out at 18, 12, 10, and 6tpi
   when rounded off, and used these as a
   sort of "scale" from which to suggest
   pitches suitable for the other sizes -
   and, I suspect, keeping in mind the pitch
   of the leadscrews of his own screw-
   cutting lathes!  He found that the mean
   of the thread angles was about 55 degrees, and
   he took this as his suggested standard.
   This was quite a steep angle, and to
   compensate for the loss of core area
   which would result he proposed the

   truncation of the thread at the root on
   the bolt; in addition, to reduce risk of
   damage to the threads at the sharp
   point (a weakness of the Holtzapffel
   standard) this was to be rounded off.

    In addition to proposing a standard
   for the threads Whitworth suggested a
   standard form for the nuts so that (a)
   the number of threads in engagement
   was such that the various methods of
   failure were more or less in equilibrium
   (remember, he was working with cast
   and wrought iron, not steel), and (b) so
   that spanners made by one firm would
   fit all other nuts.  The proportions were
   that the nut height should be equal to
   the bolt diameter, the across-corner
   dimension should be about twice the
   bolt diameter, and hence the across-
   flats dimension was around root-3 times the
   bolt diameter=1.732D. These various
   proposals were presented in a paper
   before the Institution of Civil Engin-
   eers in 1841 and, after some decades,
   became almost universally adopted, in
   this country at least.
     However, even in 1841 there were
   some who found that the diameter/
   pitch combinations suggested by Whit-
   worth were too coarse in the smaller
   sizes - 1/2in. and below - especially
   those concerned with instrument work,
   where brass and steel (high carbon
   steel, that is) were the normal materials.
   Most of the threads proposed then are
   now forgotten, but almost all had much
   steeper angles - 45 degrees, for example - with
   greater or less degrees of rounding.
   Whereas 1/16in.  Whit. was 60tpi, a
   common figure for instrument work was
   l00tpi. (Whitworth engineering threads

  ran down to this size, and rose by
  intervals of 1/64in. up to 1/4in.) Nowadays
  the fine instruments are catered for by
  the BRITISH ASSOCIATION (BA) thread
  and watchmakers either by BA or the
  PROGRESS system.

  British Association (B.A.) Form
  This is a development of an
  older thread, the THURY, developed on
  the continent to suit horological and
  fine instrument work.  Here the problem
  was that steel screws, often hardened,
  were screwed into brass plates and
  were, for their size, pulled up very
  tightly.  A shallow angle was needed to
  prevent distortion of the female thread
  in the softer materials.  The Thury thread

  was essentially metric, but the BA stan-
  dard is, in fact, defined in inches.  The
  thread angle is 47-1/2 degrees, and is very heavily
  rounded at both crest and root - the
  width of the rounded part is 0.236P
  compared with but 0.167P on the Whit-
  worth.  Hence both the depth of thread
  and the flank height (which carries the
  load) are less for a given pitch than in
  the case of Whitworth form.  This thread
  has the ONLY "rational" diameter/pitch
  combination.  The pitch of each size is
  0.9 x the pitch of the larger one; that for
  No. 0 BA, the largest, is 1 mm; No. 1 is
  0.9mm; No. 2 is 0.9 x 0.9=0.81 and so
  on - all being "rounded' and expressed
  normally in inch units.  The Diameter of
  a BA screw is derived from the pitch,
  D=6P raised to the power 1.2
  The core diameter is D-l.2P. This thread is now
  "obsolescent" and will, in due course,

 be replaced by the ISO (International
 Standards Organisation) series, as will
 the Whitworth and similar threads.  How-
 ever, the BA series is very useful, and
 will be with us for a long time yet.

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:30:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Braking Mystery

Andy asks:

Why not simply feed it back into the fluid reservoir?

Because of dissolved gases. Problem is, once brake fluid's gotten air
dissolved into it (or become aerated), it doesn't release the gas
immediately. Barring contamination effects, it's just going to pump more
gas into the system to be bled out again later.

If you must reuse fluid, let it sit in a sealed container for a while first
to set out all the air. personally, i just dump it - at $5/liter or so,
seems cheap enough to me.

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 06:09:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Nicked again

>If they want it, they've got it.

I agree.  I'm thankful that the market for used series II parts is too 
small in North America to interest the professionals.  I think my car is 
actually worth a lot more whole than in parts, and it would be too easy 
to identify whole.

My worries about my Rover are: 

- amatures who look at it & think it would be fun to go for a joy ride.
 if they do not know positive earth LRs they will not be able to start 
the car.  The carb has fuel for about 2 minutes.

- Someone who wants to steal something out of the car
 I make sure that there is nothing valuable in the car & keep the doors 
unlocked so they don't damage them while they look.

- Someone wants to vandalize the car
 I've protected the engine bay, fuel, propane and water tanks as best as 
I can but anyone with a good sludge hammer can make one heck of a mess if 
they are so inclined.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:14:00 -0400
Subject: Eat in Ithaca

Thanks Peter Kaskan for the list of places to eat in Ithaca while at Greek
Peak
If anyone is interested I searched the yellow pages for addresses and maps
and made them into a PDF file.
Mail me and I'll send you one.
The rest of the area seems short on good restaurants so far as the web
yellow pages go but I'm sure there are some other good ones. We just have to
find them. Of course the really good ones aren't in the yellow pages because
they get their customers by word of mouth.

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:31:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Miss Golightly's tantrum
Content-Disposition: inline

Due to McDonald's animosity towards Scottish people and a willingness to
sue them or anyone else for trademark infringement over the use of the
prefix "Mc", I suggest that all Rover Owners boycott The McDonalds in
Courtland , as well as ever other McDonald's.

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   JKwas61947@aol.com                                 
 to file:      07/20/98 07:59 PM                                  
 pic24482.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re: Miss Golightly's tantrum

Trevor,

     I think there's a Wendys, a TacoBell, AND a McDonalds in Cortland.
Happy
Anniversary!

There's a place called Turbecks in Ithaca that was very good a few years
ago.
Probably still is.  The ambiance is nice, plus there's a cheap motel across
the road...

--0__=pq6IMAU3rPt5WEe3N7TYnzUxOZDlJzphrC0sSNG7mriNByXkMigVYwoM

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:35:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US
Content-Disposition: inline

Personally, I think it is just fine, as it is.  No need to tinker with it.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>    
 to file:      07/20/98 08:48 PM                                  
 pic25206.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re: Freelander and defenders to US

CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote:
> <<but I do not understand why some of the assembly of a Defender can't be
> relatively automated with relatively minor changes to the way the
sheetmetal
      [ truncated by lro-lite (was 36 lines)]

 Seem to me that the most practical remodel Land Rover could do would be
to make a pressed body (read cheaper to build) and mount it on the
proven Chassis and running gear of the current Defender. This would
save  scads of $$ in retooling, produce a "new " vehicle and still be
attractive to the Military. Shouldn't be too hard to do.
    John and Muddy

--0__=WYdRBIFanPoTQV9PKf17z6YTySGPDSLINfUwP6BdgHM3v88uKwabFbV5

------------------------------

From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@SMDC.ORG>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:38:23 -0500
Subject: RE: Nicked again

TeriAnn

Do you have and electric fuel pump system for your tanks or does the
mechanical switch have a neutrl or off position?  I had dual electric
pumps and I used the unmarked swtich as my theft protection as well.  Am
currently switching to mechanical fuel pump.

Cwolfe

------------------------------

From: "Joseph H. Huston  Jr." <JHH@stevenslee.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:42:21 -0400
Subject: Outback (Yes, LR Content) -Reply

It's a terrible thing if a Roverowner gets the Willys

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 07:05:42 -0700
Subject: RE: Nicked again

>TeriAnn
;
;>Do you have and electric fuel pump system for your tanks or does the
;>mechanical switch have a neutrl or off position?  I had dual electric
;>pumps and I used the unmarked swtich as my theft protection as well.  Am
;>currently switching to mechanical fuel pump.
;>
;>Cwolfe

I try to keep things as simple as possible.  I use the stock mechanical 
pump.  I have a brass three way fuel selector that I purchased at my 
local auto parts store.  Two and three way selectors seem to be a 
standard item in the US.  Both of these valves have an off position.

I just route rubing to the seltator from the tanks and to the fuel pump 
from the selector.  Simple and not much to o wrong.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:57:07 -0500
Subject: McDonalds sue happy (was: Re: Miss Golightly's tantrum)

In message <bulk.17198.19980721063121@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> Due to McDonald's animosity towards Scottish people and a willingness to
> sue them or anyone else for trademark infringement over the use of the
> prefix "Mc", I suggest that all Rover Owners boycott The McDonalds in
> Courtland , as well as ever other McDonald's.

	A friend of mine saw a "60 minutes" special on this a few weeks ago.
According to the show there now is a twist to this case.   It seems McDonalds
went too far and is being countersued.  The clan chief of clan McDonald owns
the name McDonald with something like 1000 years of precedent.  He knows that
he and his ancestors never gave that food chain name permission to use 
*his* name.    Hopefully he'll win.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:05:16 -0400
Subject: RE: Smokey 90

Blowby, indicating rings are worn.  Not a problem and sometimes a
desirable feature when some miscreant is following too closely...simply
nail the throttle and blind and choke 'em in a cloud of soot!
	When you get tired of the oil consumption, time for a re-build.

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:01:43 -0700
Subject: Re:  Freelander and Defender to the US

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:36:05 EDT
Subject: Re:  Freelander and Defender to the US

Marin Faure wrote:
"Defender is an extremely expensive vehicle to assemble. It's bolted
together,
which means someone has to do the bolting."

>BULL#&%T!

>Chevy trucks are bolted together! They don't cost a whole lot.

I don't know if you have ever been to Solihull and watched them put
Defenders together, or if you have been to a US truck plant and watched
them put pickups together, but I've done both.  The difference in the
amount of labor needed is staggeringly apparent, even to someone like
myself who is unfamiliar with the auto assembly industry (although I'm
very familiar with aircraft assembly).  Defenders are built up on the
assembly line from relatively small bits and panels which have to be
bolted together into larger assemblies which have to be bolted together
into even larger assemblies which eventually end up on the vehicle.  All
of this is hand work, unless they've radically changed their line since
my last visit.  Many of the stamped-out components of a US pickup are
welded together automatically into major subassemblies.  True, the final
parts have to be hand-assembled to the chassis, but there is none of the
tedious, labor-intensive manipulation of small components that you get
on the Defender line.  In contrast, the Discovery line, which uses much
larger body components, is noticeably less labor-intensive, as is the
new-model Range Rover line, which we filmed last year.  The Range Rover
line seemed to us to be the most like a US-style assembly line.  But the
Defender line is not.  It is literally like watching people put together
a whole bunch of Revell model kits.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "Donald Abbot" <donald@bateleur.co.za>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:23:58 -0000
Subject: re: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:28:40 -0400 Ben from Maryville, TN wrote:

>Everything is removed except the large bolts that pass through
the front
>bushing of each spring pack.  The nuts came right off, but it
seems that each
>bolt has rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of
its bushing.
>No amount of pounding will budge them because the bushing
absorbs the
>impact.

On the 109 the shackle plate is tapped. (part no. 537685). Try
unscrewing the bolt!

Donald (I also tried hitting mine at first)

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:27:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Freelanders and Defenders to the US

image moved   CIrvin1258@aol.com                                 
 to file:      07/19/98 11:36 AM                                  
 pic03452.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  
>Unibody construction rarely goes over well with the military, because
it
costs more to fix it, and some designs are not general-maintenance
friendly -
which is where the existing design shines, costly or not.

Don't get me wrong, here.  I'm not saying that I personally think
unibody construction is a good thing for a vehicle like the Defender.
Based on my 25 year's experience with my Series III, I like the fact all
the little bits and pieces that make it up were hand-bolted together,
because I can hand-bolt them apart when I need to.  All I'm saying is
that based on some things I've been reading over the last few years and
the predictions of my friends in the commercial vehicle trade in the UK,
there are very motivational cost reasons for Land Rover to change the
design of the Defender to simplify its assembly.  Whether these changes
would meet military specifications, I have no idea, although the US
military buys a fair number of off-the-shelf pickups and vans.  However,
these are not used in the field to the same degree that I suspect the
British and other military forces use their Land Rovers, so that's
probably not a valid comparison.

I wonder if today's military is concerned with fixing things other than
mechanical repairs necessary to keep them running.  If a unibody
Defender were to roll down a hill and crumple up into a ball, or be
involved in an accident that severely damaged the body, I suspect the
Army would just write it off.  I would be surprised if they bother to
repair the vehicles they drive today once the level of damage exceeds a
certain level.  So while unibody vs. multi-panel construction may make a
difference to us civilian owners, and may have made a difference to the
military awhile back, in today's
use-it-until-it-breaks-and-then-throw-it-away world, I wonder if an
armed service would really care one way or the other.  If unibody
construction made the Defender more affordable, I suspect that would
take priority in the mind of today's military forces than how easy it
was to work on.  Other's opinions may vary...

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:36:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Freelanders and Defenders to the US

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Faure, Marin wrote:

> I wonder if today's military is concerned with fixing things other than
> mechanical repairs necessary to keep them running.  If a unibody

One of the problems militarys all over the world is that politicans will
give them money to fix things, but not to buy new ones.  Even when the
cost of routine mechanical repairs exceeds the cost of replacing the
vehicle.  

David

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:42:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and Defender to the US
Content-Disposition: inline

Where are you with Boeing?

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>        
 to file:      07/21/98 12:01 PM                                  
 pic12134.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re:  Freelander and Defender to the US

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:36:05 EDT
Subject: Re:  Freelander and Defender to the US

Marin Faure wrote:
"Defender is an extremely expensive vehicle to assemble. It's bolted
together,
which means someone has to do the bolting."

>BULL#&%T!
>Chevy trucks are bolted together! They don't cost a whole lot.
I don't know if you have ever been to Solihull and watched them put
Defenders together, or if you have been to a US truck plant and watched
them put pickups together, but I've done both.  The difference in the
amount of labor needed is staggeringly apparent, even to someone like
myself who is unfamiliar with the auto assembly industry (although I'm
very familiar with aircraft assembly).  Defenders are built up on the
assembly line from relatively small bits and panels which have to be
bolted together into larger assemblies which have to be bolted together
into even larger assemblies which eventually end up on the vehicle.  All
of this is hand work, unless they've radically changed their line since
my last visit.  Many of the stamped-out components of a US pickup are
welded together automatically into major subassemblies.  True, the final
parts have to be hand-assembled to the chassis, but there is none of the
tedious, labor-intensive manipulation of small components that you get
on the Defender line.  In contrast, the Discovery line, which uses much
larger body components, is noticeably less labor-intensive, as is the
new-model Range Rover line, which we filmed last year.  The Range Rover
line seemed to us to be the most like a US-style assembly line.  But the
Defender line is not.  It is literally like watching people put together
a whole bunch of Revell model kits.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

--0__=7hdJzbyqZOuCeUInlLcLB5W6EqQTyCL0tf3AO8dHwJ6Q8ZowQzKpP5RD

------------------------------

From: "Jeffrey Jackson" <jcjcj88@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:54:31 -0400
Subject: Removing springs

Ben Nidal wrote:  So my only idea is to cut the bolts themselves in two
places: just inside the plates welded to the frame on both sides.  This
would allow me to remove the spring pack with the center section of the bolt
still stuck in the bushing.  Then the bolt head and threaded ends would just
fall right out of their holes.

That's what I did - a 7.5" circular saw with a metal cutting blade will make
short work of it.  Keep the blade clear of the frame - it will make short
work of that, too.  Prop up the spring, lest it hit you in the chest when
freed.  That happened to a, uh, friend of mine.

Jeff Jackson
73 SIII 88

------------------------------

From: Keith Cutler <keith_cutler@csgsystems.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:03:56 -0600
Subject: Bellhousing Plug (Ben Nibali) and Paint Colors (Steve Parker)

The bellhousing plug is available from Rovers North.  As I recall, it's
not in the catalog, but they sell many parts that are not listed in the
free catalog.

My 1960 Series II was painted Sand with a Limestone Pickup Cab.  My
friend also has a '60 with a full tropical roof.  I know mine is
original, but can't vouch for his.  Land Rovers were available in 1960
with more than just soft tops and in more colors than Pastel Green.

A question for the list: My Rover's serial number indicates it was built
in 1960, although my title has it as a 1961.  Obviously, cars built in a
given year can be titled differently since model years and calendar
years aren't necessarily the same.  What is the opinion of the list as
to the correct year for my vehicle?  Call it a 1961?  That seems the
most reasonable.

Also, there was a thread recently on British Pacific.  I've tried to buy
parts from them but have found they were more expensive than Rovers
North.  The only thing I've tried that was cheaper was a 2.25 petrol
long block (at $2500) compared to the Turner 2.25 petrol long block at
$2900.  However, with the restoration credit at RN, the (IMHO) superior
Turner motor will run me less money.  I'm certain that RN earned their
high-priced reputation fairly, but their prices have dropped since I
started my frame-off last August.

Just one more opinion.

Thanks.
Keith

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:16:09 -0700
Subject: RE: Bellhousing Plug (Ben Nibali) and Paint Colors (Steve Parker)

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:25:02 -0700
Subject: Year of manufacture & 2.25 prices.

	Keith writes: A question for the list: My Rover's serial number
indicates it was built
	in 1960, although my title has it as a 1961.  Obviously, cars
built in a
	given year can be titled differently since model years and
calendar
	years aren't necessarily the same.  What is the opinion of the
list as
	to the correct year for my vehicle?  Call it a 1961?  That seems
the
	most reasonable.

I think that the actual year of manufacture is the most important.  On
Series II's this can be determined by the fourth digit of the chassis
number:  8 for 1958, 9 for 1959, 0 for 1960 & 1 for 1961.  My '61's
chassis number is 144101239, but it actually left the factory in
December 1960.  Registering my vehicle as a 1960 or a 1962 could lead to
confusion when trying to order the correct parts etc...

	And again: Also, there was a thread recently on British Pacific.
I've tried to buy
	parts from them but have found they were more expensive than
Rovers
	North.  The only thing I've tried that was cheaper was a 2.25
petrol
	long block (at $2500) compared to the Turner 2.25 petrol long
block at
	$2900.  However, with the restoration credit at RN, the (IMHO)
superior
	Turner motor will run me less money.  I'm certain that RN earned
their
	high-priced reputation fairly, but their prices have dropped
since I
	started my frame-off last August.

I don't know if you guy know but there is a shop in Vancouver, BC (Wise
Owl) selling rebuild 2.25's with hardened valves starting at C$1600.00
exchange?  (That's a little over US$1000.00  at today's exchange)  They
also have rebuilt transmissions (no transfer box) for around C$500.00.
I don't have any connections with the shop, but have bought many parts
from them and find them to be very fair and honest...  E-mail me if you
would like more info...I've got a flyer that I can fax.

Paul Quin
Victoria, BC

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:34:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Bellhousing Plug (Ben Nibali) and Paint Colors (Steve Parker) 

In message <bulk.22416.19980721100409@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> Also, there was a thread recently on British Pacific.  I've tried to buy
> parts from them but have found they were more expensive than Rovers
> North.  

 (snip)

> I'm certain that RN earned their
> high-priced reputation fairly, but their prices have dropped since I
> started my frame-off last August.

	RN's prices have dropped.  Interesting.

	One question on your comparison of prices.  Was this:
           1. Genuine vs Genuine?  
           2. Genuine vs OEM?  
           3. Genuine vs Aftermarket?

	I wouldn't be surprised if RN has better prices on #1 since they
are the only official distributer of Series parts in the US and can buy
direct.  Other vendors usually have to deal with middlemen who add their
cut.

	If the comparison was for #2 or #3, then things have changed.  And
it is a welcome change from RN.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 10:43:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Bellhousing Plug (Ben Nibali) and Paint Colors (Steve Parker)

>A question for the list: My Rover's serial number indicates it was built
>in 1960, although my title has it as a 1961.  Obviously, cars built in a
;>given year can be titled differently since model years and calendar
;>years aren't necessarily the same.  What is the opinion of the list as
;>to the correct year for my vehicle?  Call it a 1961?  That seems the
;>most reasonable.

The difference is between a series II and a series IIA.  There were a 
number of parts changes between the two years.

Obvious things are: 2L vs 2-1/4L engine, How the steering arms bolt to 
the swivel hubs, screw vs lever scuttle vent openers, turn signal 
indicators on the steering column vs on the instrument panel, cylinder 
for door stop bolted to bulkhead vs welded to the bulkhead.  If you have 
a series II rig and order parts for a '61 you will sometimes get the 
wrong parts.  If you have a IIA & order parts for a 1960 you have the 
same problem.  So I suggest that you go '60 if you have a series II rig 
or '61 if it is a IIA rig.

That said, I suggest that you upgrade to a 2-1/4L engine, and later style 
steering arms if you have a series II rig that will not be shown in 
concourse.
>Also, there was a thread recently on British Pacific.  I've tried to buy
>parts from them but have found they were more expensive than Rovers
>North.

For genuine parts, I think prices seem to vary by how old the stock on 
hand is and how much Rover has raised prices since the last reorder.  

I hope Rovers North has been able to keep their prices low.  I think both 
RN and BP are very good companies and both worth checking for prices when 
ordering.  Just make sure that you specify genuine, OEM or after market 
not OEM and make sure that all the same parts are included in assemblies 
when comparing prices.

;>However, with the restoration credit at RN, the (IMHO) superior
;>Turner motor will run me less money.

Never assume that a Turner rebuilt engine is superior to anyone else's 
rebuild.  All Turner advertises is that they build their engines in 
accordance to a certain international standard.  The standard does not 
specify tolerances or performance.  What it does specify is that you have 
a set of procedures that you follow when creating a product and that 
these procedures are documented.

The standard is to assure a consistent product and the assumption that 
you will not get random bad products if you carefully follow a documented 
procedure and occasionally check to see that the procedure is being 
followed.  The procedure could state that any used part still intact may 
be used or it could call for all new parts.  

Any competent engine builder can build an engine at least as good as a 
Turner.  Any competent engine builder could build a higher quality engine 
then a Turner.  

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: "Donald Abbot" <donald@bateleur.co.za>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:12:23 -0000
Subject: Re:  re: 3 vs. 4 tube radiator

No, Bill, it's a 250, but it has plenty of power and torque in
the right range. 70kPa (kilo Pascals) is about 10psi. A 9lb
pressure cap is apparently standard for the 109.

The "stop leak" not only coats the inside of the radiator but
also the engine.

I did not do the conversion so I don't know all the details.
Perhaps somebody like Darryl Webb can help out here. The
radiator looks like the one in my parts manual (and the Haynes
manual for that matter). It has fins, as somebody described it,
and definitely more than 4 tubes. The cowl and shroud look
standard.

The conversion looks fairly simple. The engine mounts had to be
changed, the Chev straddles were used. The front cross-member of
the chassis had to be moved forward, about its own width's
worth. The breakfast is still in the same place, I think. There
is more than enough space for the motor.

Donald

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:48:31 EDT
Subject: Re-Land Rover Freelander in US?

>From: Justin Gassaway <jgassaway@yahoo.com>
>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Land Rover Freelander in US?

>Is the Freelander comming to the US?  If so, when?  How much will it
>cost?

>Thanks, Justin

AAAAAAGH. !!!!!!!!!

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 16:03:36 EST
Subject: Sighting in DC

looking out the window of the Holocaust Museum...there was a very spiffy 
looking blue 88, early IIa, RHD, Marlyand tags and a UK tag on the fender.
No roof, typical LR type behind the wheel.
Anyone we know?

later
DaveB

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:26:56 -0400
Subject: Re: super Landrover screen saver
Content-Disposition: inline

Tom,

I tried to respond directly to the e-mail address on your posting, but it
was returned as undeliverable.

Ray Burton

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>                    
 to file:      07/19/98 03:50 PM                                  
 pic20493.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  super Landrover screen saver

Good morning.
While surfing the net I came across this web site.
http://www.jumbo.com/pages/mm/ss/sections.asp?x_sectionid=1801&mv=7
It has a excellent screen saver of a rover in different states of
discomfort. A word of warning, the file to down load is 2 megs.
Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
Series 3
tomd@clear.net.nz

     [multipart mime alternative 15 lines deleted.]

--0__=ddrl0rntZe0HqP0xIAX70Or7IbaizyOp0V5Yq3Nah2Oo0GxwjkRHVhud

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:01:15 -0400
Subject: Big nite out

Trevor Easton <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca> wrote:

>Transmission comes out tonight. Still expect to make it to The Peak with
>Miss G , Wednesday 29th. Sudden thought!!!! That's our wedding anniversary.
>Any recommendations for a good restaurant in GP area. 

"The Rafters" is the *only* restaurant around.  Fortunately, it's a pretty
decent place...pro'lly the best restaurant around for several counties,
judging by the local clientele.  I suggested they lay in a good stock of
Guiness and Bass....

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:01:18 -0400
Subject: Land-Rovers?

Jarvis64@aol.com wrote:

>The section of Outback's menu covering beef (as opposed to seafood) is
>called "Land Rovers"  Can LRNA sue them for this?  I hope so.

I doubt it.  Back in '86 or so, McDeath's had this kids meal packaging that
showed that fool clown driving a "land rover" across the moon.  I fired off
a cease-and-desist-lest-our-attorneys-chew-expensively-on-your-corporate-
backsides letter on club stationery to McD's.  Surprisingly, in less than a
week, the packaging disappeared.  Hot dang!  Took on one of the world's
largest corporation and won, we did!

Tried the same when Thom McCann came out with a line of "Land Rover" boots.
 Their attorney basicaly told us to go pound sand.  As the copyright laws
are written, you can sue someone who calls another vehicle a Land Rover,
not boots, beef or anything else that is not a vehicle.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:01:17 -0400
Subject: Spring woes

>BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com wrote:

>I'm replacing the rear leaf spring packs on my '65 88".  As is so often the
>case, the project has stalled at the disassembly stage.  Everything is
>removed except the large bolts that pass through the front bushing of each
>spring pack.  The nuts came right off, but it seems that each bolt has
>rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of its bushing.  No amount
>of pounding will budge them because the bushing absorbs the impact

During my last spring job, I used my largest breaker bar and put a 6'
cheater bar on the end of it.  With my brother jumping up and down on the
end - I figgured it was well more that 1,000 ft lbs or torque - the bolt
wouldn't budge.  Good ad for Craftsman tools, though.  Ended up using the
"red wrench" to burn out the bushing and later sawing the outer shell.
*Huge* amounts of anti-seize *might* prevent a reoccurence....  Good luck

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "Chris Weinbeck, Office Logic, Inc." <cmw@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:02:11 -0400
Subject: Tech Sessions -ANARC Rally

Hello all.

I just received the original list of people interested in presenting tech. 
sessions at the ANARC 50th Rally.

Al Richer needed to pass the wrench, and well I grabbed it before it hit me 
on the head. :-)

I have the following names;

Nate Dunsmore
Mark Talbot
Andy Philpot
Jeffrey Aaronson
Jon Humphries
George Bull

And Teriann I believe you were mentioned also??

I would appreciate it if each of you, and anyone who feels they should be 
on this list, could please e-mail me with whatever particulars describe 
your plans, desires or any circumstances affecting your participation.

Chris

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:31:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Re-Seeking coil sprung frame over experience

Hi Giles 
Hope this helps, please come back to me if you would like more of my "back
garden" mecanical meanderings.

>OK, can I ask you some questions? We are starting our first restoration and
my >wife prefers the disc brakes and coils. I am not so sure I want to add
that to the
>Difficulty of doing a restoration

Q. What motivated you to do it? 
A. Having owned a standard ser 111 Lightweight and restored it to something
like its former glory, I became more interested in the competition side of
Land Rover ownership and; 
a. Did not want to damage what I had restored.
b. Wanted more power and better suspension
c. Needed a new project to keep me sane.

Q. Would you do it again?
A. Yes, in fact I already have a Range Rover chassis and running gear in the
back garden just waiting for the right body, 100 inch LR in the making.

Q. How much experience did you have with LRs restoration before.
A. None prior to the Lightweight.

Q. Any advice? It is a Series III with a very bad frame now.
A. It really depends on how far you want to go, and at what cost. I do not
know where you are located and what second hand parts are available to you so
it is difficult to advise. If money is no problem go for an off-the-shelf coil
conversion chassis of the type made by Arrow services/Designa chassis and new
D90 or RR axles. The rest is then made very easy for you. If cash is tight and
you are reasonably mechanically minded look out for an accident damaged RR
with a straight chassis (that is what I used). Sell on all the bits you do not
need then ask again and I can advise on a "plan of work" to put the chassis
under your ser iii. 

Just replacing the frame on the existing running gear is as large a commitment
as the coil conversion if you use a ready made chassis, you will find all
sorts of unexpected parts need replacing, brake pipes, wheel cylinders, void
bushes, to name but a few.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ Rolling RR chassis (awaiting the right body)

------------------------------

From: "Franklin H. Yap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:37:24 -0700
Subject: Re: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck

Donald Abbot wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:28:40 -0400 Ben from Maryville, TN wrote:
> On the 109 the shackle plate is tapped. (part no. 537685). Try
> unscrewing the bolt!

The shackles are threaded even on the 88.  I believe he is referring to the
other end - the part that is attached to the body without the shackles.
That is not threaded.

FHY

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:55:19 -0300
Subject: Re: Camels?

Easton Trevor wrote:
> John Cranfield writes "All this is purely academic for me I'm too old anyway
> and they don't .........Camels in Canada.
> John, or others, can you please supply the missing word as this statement
> left me confused :-)

I deliberately left this open as we don't do any thing with camels in
Canada. Here on the East Coast we smoke herring and thus get kippers
but we don't smoke camels as we haven't found a use for smoked camels.
I was told that smoked camels turn into butts but everyone has one of
those already.
     John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Elwyn York <eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:04:01 +0100
Subject: Landrover Screensaverss

Great!

I downloaded the file. 20mins @ 33.6Kps!  After a few screenshots copied to
the clipart i have some nice Camel Trophy 96 Desktop Pictures!!!

Brilliant. Thanks for the link!!!

Elwyn
S3 '72 (Dented) Lightweight. "Green Brick"
Eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk & Http://www.ey-eg.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:03:17 -0500
Subject: RE: Land-Rovers?

You got it right. Every good is categorized in classes. When you register a
name brand or a comercial name you have to indicate what class of products
or services (goods) you want to protect, and you have to prove that you
really are producing giving or comertializing that kind of good.
Anyone can tale on your registered name and use it for goods on another
class.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

-----Mensaje original-----
De: A. P. "Sandy" Grice <rover@pinn.net>
Para: lro@playground.sun.com <lro@playground.sun.com>
Fecha: Martes 21 de Julio de 1998 03:08 PM
Asunto: Land-Rovers?

>Jarvis64@aol.com wrote:
>>The section of Outback's menu covering beef (as opposed to seafood) is
>>called "Land Rovers"  Can LRNA sue them for this?  I hope so.
>I doubt it.  Back in '86 or so, McDeath's had this kids meal packaging that
>showed that fool clown driving a "land rover" across the moon.  I fired off
>a cease-and-desist-lest-our-attorneys-chew-expensively-on-your-corporate-
>backsides letter on club stationery to McD's.  Surprisingly, in less than a
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 26 lines)]
>  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
>  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:11:49 +1000
Subject: stuck springs

From: BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:28:40 -0400
Subject: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck
I'm replacing the rear leaf spring packs on my '65 88".  As is so often the
case, the project has stalled at the disassembly stage.  Everything is
removed except the large bolts that pass through the front bushing of each
spring pack.  The nuts came right off, but it seems that each bolt has
rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of its bushing.  No amount
of pounding will budge them because the bushing absorbs the impact.
So my only idea is to cut the bolts themselves in two places: just inside
the plates welded to the frame on both sides.  This would allow me to
remove the spring pack with the center section of the bolt still stuck in
the bushing.  Then the bolt head and threaded ends would just fall right
out of their holes.
Anyone ever had this problem and come upon a more elegant solution?  The
springs are complete garbage and I don't mind replacing the bolts.
Thanks,
Ben
Maryville, TN
The bolts are also threaded into the hanger - have you tried 'unscrewing'
them out ?    Just a thought

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:17:51 -0500
Subject: RE: Landrover Screensaverss

20 minutes??? It can't be.
I was worried because it took this thing 2:30 min to download it.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Elwyn York <eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Para: lro@playground.sun.com <lro@playground.sun.com>
Fecha: Martes 21 de Julio de 1998 04:07 PM
Asunto: Landrover Screensaverss

>Great!
>I downloaded the file. 20mins @ 33.6Kps!  After a few screenshots copied to
>the clipart i have some nice Camel Trophy 96 Desktop Pictures!!!
>Brilliant. Thanks for the link!!!
>Elwyn

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
>S3 '72 (Dented) Lightweight. "Green Brick"
>Eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk & Http://www.ey-eg.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:24:54 EDT
Subject: 3 vs. 4 tube radiator SORRY

Folks,
Sorry about the letter to Donald (4.1l Chevy) that I mistakenly sent to you
all.

Bye,
Bill

------------------------------

From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:47:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Camels?

Easton Trevor wrote:
> can you please supply the missing word as this statement
> left me confused :-).
      " Eat " ??

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 98 18:10:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Tech Sessions -ANARC Rally

>Hello all.
>I just received the original list of people interested in presenting tech. 
>sessions at the ANARC 50th Rally.
>Al Richer needed to pass the wrench, and well I grabbed it before it hit me 
>on the head. :-)

>I have the following names;
;
;>Nate Dunsmore
;>Mark Talbot
;>Andy Philpot
;>Jeffrey Aaronson
;>Jon Humphries
;>George Bull
;
;>And Teriann I believe you were mentioned also??
;
;>I would appreciate it if each of you, and anyone who feels they should 
be 
;>on this list, could please e-mail me with whatever particulars describe 
;>your plans, desires or any circumstances affecting your participation.

I vounteered way back when but I never heard back so I assumed that my 
idea wasn't accepted.

I noticed that someone was going to talk about expedition prepping a 101, 
I volunteered to talk about prepping a 109 two door for expedition.  I 
could make it more general and talk about prepping series rigs but while 
I looked at a lot of cars deciding what to do with mine, I only really 
know the 109 two door well (It is all I have owned for over 20 years).

Since no one replied I didn't put anything together.

I could talk about design considerations, point out places to add 
storrage & lead a discussion group about expedition mods.

How big of a group are you talking and what is the setting?  I'm still 
willing to do something.  All I have for illustrations is The Green 
Rover.  I'm leaving in less then 12 hours from now.  

Lets talk about it Thursday when I get there.  I'm willing to share what 
I have learned, I just don't have time to put a programme together.  But 
I can generally do OK on the fly.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:20:21 -0300
Subject: Re: Miss Golightly's tantrum

Ray Burton wrote:
> Due to McDonald's animosity towards Scottish people and a willingness to
> sue them or anyone else for trademark infringement over the use of the
> prefix "Mc", I suggest that all Rover Owners boycott The McDonalds in
> Courtland , as well as ever other McDonald's.
>  (Embedded
>  image moved   JKwas61947@aol.com

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 79 lines)]
> gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////
> --0__=pq6IMAU3rPt5WEe3N7TYnzUxOZDlJzphrC0sSNG7mriNByXkMigVYwoM--

I have been boycotting Macdonalds for years in protest of their high
prices and awful food.
    John

------------------------------

From: Ralph N Bradt <rnbradt@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:33:26 MST
Subject: Re:  6000 miles in 3 weeks (kind of wordy)

Addressed to: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
              Jarvis64@aol.com

Bill,

Real sorry I missed you while you were out here in Evergreen. I was looking 
forward to running a few
back roads with you, but I had that 500 acre weenie roast west of town to deal 
with. C'est la vie, er, I
mean, though shit for me, eh, mate? Maybe the opportunity will arise again. 
Sounds like Jim gave
you a good tour, though. Sounds like a good trip and good adventure. Long time 
on the road in a
Rover. My best to you and Mrs. Merdle.

Ralph Bradt

------------------------------

From: Robert M McCullough <dieselbob@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:46:03 -0400
Subject: left front axle assembley

I'm helping a rover owner this weekend on his complete ground-up
restoration on his 1969 88. He's putting a new galvanised chassis
underneath and this weekends project is putting the new springs on. He
has already removed the rear axel assembly and put all the new
components together, painted and is ready to bolt the springs and axel
to the frame. The problem now is that when he tried to remove the front
axel assembly, the right swivel and hub assembly along with the locking
hubs came out easily, even though there was NO 90 weight inside. The
left side is another matter, though just as empty as the right side, the
axel is rusted into the axel casing. He was able to remove all the
components up to the u-joint but it will not budge and is now soaking
the axel shaft down with P.B.Blaster. He wants to put a pry bar with
great leverage on it (10 ft. cheater bar) in the yoke but I don't know
if that should wait till a method of last resort or not. I suggested
that he try to insert a broom handle from in from the other side and
perhaps that might help free it up. Any ideas out there? Or are we
wasting time on an axel casing that we will have to discard anyways? The
chrome on the swivel balls themselves amazingly are perfect!

------------------------------

From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman Wing)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:22:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Eats in the GP Area (Ithaca)

>From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Eats in the GP Area (Ithaca)
>Trevor - (and all you food lovers out there)
>There is good food to be found in Ithaca!!!

I agree that there is good food to be had in Ithaca, after all,(per capita)
it has the highest number of restaurants, the worst traffic, and the most
freaks of any place I have been. Really, it's not a bad place, and I do get
a lot of pleasure from driving my IIA followed by billowing clouds of smoke
in a town infested with ignorant knee-jerk protester types;-)

I would like to add a note of caution to Peter's remarks, though - all the
places he mentions, while excellent, also tend to be on the expensive side,
at least for my meager budget. Also, a lot of restaurants here are,to my
way of thinking, wierd(what do you exect from a town that attempted to make
the world's largest Tofu dog?). In terms of value for money and normalcy, I
would have to say that Joe's and the Nines are head and shoulders above the
rest. Joe's is the sort of place where you are stuffed before you even get
the entree. If you're looking for fast food, I would say that Cortland is
at least the equal of Ithaca.

Also of import for LROs: good bars can be found in Collegetwon in Ithaca.
As the name suggests, they are college bars, but they really aren't that
bad in the summer. Rulloff's, Dino's, and the Palms are the best, IMO. I'm
afraid I don't have any experience with Cortland bars. Also, be aware that
last call in Tompkins County(and I think Cortland county too) is an early
1am.

If you're looking for scenery, check out the intersection of Court and
Tioga streets in downtown Ithaca. It is the sight where I ran over a
cavalier which ran a red light in front of me. It is rumored that small
bits of LR sidelamp can still be found in the area. Incidentally, that damn
cavalier is the reason I probably won't make it to Greek Peak, even though
I only live a half hour away. I have lingered too long over repairing the
frame, thinking that the event was 2 weeks later than it was. Serves me
right for procrastinating... Seriously, as Peter says, there are gorges and
scenery aplenty, and it is well worth a drive around one of the lakes, if
you're into that sort of thing and get tired of mud.

Braman
66IIA 88 - still in the shop

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:31:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Land-Rovers?

Hey...Univega bicycles (for those who don't know) has two lines of mountain
bikes - at least, they did for a good 10 years: the Land Rover (of which, I
have one), and the Range Rover!

Don't know if Land Rover ever took them to court or not, but I know this - the
shop I got the bike from, wanted to buy it back from me a few years ago! (got
it in 1986)

Charles

------------------------------

From: "Said Geoffrey at MITTS" <Geoffrey.Said@magnet.mt>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:32:27 +0100
Subject: Crunched front end halfshaft

Landrovers never stop costing you money.

The last accident on my Ser III was that my left (looking to the landrover from 
the front) hub main bearing disintegrated (literally!!).  This caused the wheel 
to tilt and crunched the front treads on the shaft.  Now I have to go and buy 
the shaft so that the mechanic can replace it.

Any comments why the bearing not making any whining noise just gave up???

Thanks
Geoffrey
Malta

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:27:49 +1000
Subject: Nicked again

Sandy GRice wrote:
>Yup.  Some miscreant nicked the spare off my 88 two weeks ago.
> had the bonnet up and laid the spare on the ground beside the
> vehicle.

What am I doing wrong?
I put a Mitsubishi L300 4wd wheel with Desert Dueler tyre that had lots of
tread (about 1/4") out in front of my place, leaning against a tree.  And
noone took it.  It was there for days.

Eventually, I had to paint the word "FREE" on it before it went - and it
still took another day.
Ron

------------------------------

From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:50:19 +0100
Subject: Re: left front axle assembley

Undo the steering and tracking rod ends,  release the brake hose and 
undo the bolds that hold the entire contraption to the axle casing.
Slide out the assembly with the axle in place so you can have a look 
at what is keeping it there and won't let go. THEN decide how to 
solve the problem. Going after it with brute force will probably 
damage something. 

No big deal, just a two person 20 minute job.

Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:57:52 +0100
Subject: Spare Genny Panel

(I'm sending this to the main list, as they're probably like hen's teeth in
the US - and  I'm sure I can bundle it in with my belongings, when I
finally get that Visa!)

Got a spare Genny Panel if anyone is interested!

This is the later "transistorised" version.   It is the one which I thought
had a sticky relay - but hasn't.
Main output circuit works fine (I've been running it for 2-3 months in the
truck).

The radio/auxiliary output gives about 14v though. From what I remember of
my early tests, this probably has virtually no associated current.
Would be fine if you had an FFR and weren't worried about the
Radio/Auxiliary output.

I'm in the process of getting my radio working, so I've swapped a different
Genny Panel in.

Its ex-Bosnia, if anyone is bothered! :-)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Peter Thoren <peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se>
Date: 	Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:03:49 +0000
Subject: gearbox, how warm is normal?

Dear fellow Land Rover owners,

I noticed yesterday that the floor and left side of the aluminium (inside
the truck) covering the gearbox was rather warm after 30 km of highway
speed (90 km/h). It was not extremely warm but it made me start worrying.
What is a normal temperature for the gearbox? The reason I am a little bit
worried is that I have a whining sound from the gearbox which increases
with revs and I suspect it mucht be a bushing. Could this be the cause of
eccessive heat? 

Thanks in beforehand,

Peter 

**********************************************************
Peter Thoren
1975 series 3 109" Stw Diesel
Långmyrtorp
740 20 Vänge
Sweden
peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se
**********************************************************

------------------------------

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:01:31 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: RE: Landrover Screensaverss

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Luis Manuel Gutierrez wrote:

> 20 minutes??? It can't be.
> I was worried because it took this thing 2:30 min to download it.

2:30? Hm. Took me 45 seconds here from Norway. This is rapidly turning
into a bandwidth d***size war.

Rover content is getting low, so I'll add that my SIII actually passed
the Norwegian MOT last month. I'd been at war with my brakes for
two months, and when I took it to the MOT it still wanted to climb
the sidewalk whenever I touched the brakes.

However, when the tester got to the brakes, everything was nice and balanced,
and has been since. Go figure!

Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

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