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From: Donald Abbot <donald@bateleur.co.za>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:17:38 -0000
Subject: re: 3 vs. 4 tube radiator

On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:21:42 EDT Bill Rice said:

and
>I'm driving 60-65 mph (w/ o/d.)

>I have a Pontiac 2.5l in there, so I'll keep my question general.

>How much difference in cooling ability is there between the SIIA (4 tube, 
I've
>been led to believe) and the newer SIII radiators?  I replaced my old SIIA
>rad. (had to run 25% antifreeze, 25% water, 50% stop leak) w/ a nice new 
SIII
>rad this spring and now she gets too hot.

I would never use "stop leak". The way it works is by building up a layer 
covering the inside of water galleries and pipes in your engine and thus 
reducing the heat transfer.

I have a Chev 4.1 which also runs on the hot side but with a good mix of 
antifreeze and water and a 70kPa radiator cap the reading on my VDO 
temperature gauge goes up to 110C on a hot day. If it reaches 120C I stop. 
This rarely happens and generally only in extreme conditions.

Donald

------------------------------

From: Jacobs Johan <XY14449@exchange.oldmutual.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:48:15 +0200
Subject: Cape Land Rover Club Newsletter

Hello to you all

The latest edition of the Roving Reporter, the official newsletter of the
Cape Land Rover Club is available from the club website at
http://jump.to/cape-landrover-club <http://jump.to/cape-landrover-club>  or
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/5382/
<http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/5382/> 

This month is a bumper edition. Of particular notice is the change of dates
of a club weekend. Members and potential visitors must take particular care
and make a note of the date change.

Also of interest is the establishment of 4x4 Helpline in Cape Town. To my
knowledge it is the first of its kind and it sounds as if it could be very
interesting. Almost like a surf report, but directed at the 4x4 community.

Read the newsletter and follow the links and have fun.

Happy virtual Rovering

Johan Jacobs
Webmaster
Cape Land Rover Club
Johanj@yebo.co.za <mailto:Johanj@yebo.co.za> 

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:04:00 -0400
Subject: Miss Golightly's tantrum

Drove to Warkworth (200 miles) this weekend, on the new springs. Plusmobile
ride and much less fatigueing especially when driving in the rush hour
traffic. On arrival at Bill Osmond's farm took a short offroad trip and
promptly lost second gear. Participated in the off roading as a passenger
for Simon Burn. Back home Sunday and the floors and seatbox are out.
Transmission comes out tonight. Still expect to make it to The Peak with
Miss G , Wednesday 29th. Sudden thought!!!! That's our wedding anniversary.
Any recommendations for a good restaurant in GP area. 

------------------------------

From: Lawrence Lee <lawrencelee_tc@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 05:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: 109 Ride Height

---Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org> wrote:
> Have you tried changing the springs from side to side.  A pain in

the a**
> but it would answer any question about a bent frame or what ever.  
> Aloha Peter

Firstly, my apologies to the list for these late posts. As I am
borrowing my friend's computer, I onlyhave access to check my mail
once a week.

I think I found out the reasons to my rover listing to port and riding
bow high.

Sent Kerbau in for a chassis alignment check and found it to be
"straight within tolerance" for a new rover! The list is due to the
bodywork being bolted on with rubber bushings on one side (the high
side)!

A check with a parts manual revealed that 88inch diesel springs were
fitted to the rear hence the bow high attitude. When confronted, the
parts man said that "it can still be used" and that "they do not
produce these springs (heavy duty springs for 1ton and 6cyl 109s)
anymore. :-(

Managed to trace a spring manufacturer in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and
placed an order. I will report on the after effects soon - I hope :-)

Cheers

==
Lawrence Lee
Blk 22, Sin Ming Road, # 11-216
Singapore 570022
Tel: (65) 456 7815   Mobile: 9 684 3678

Land Rover SerIII 109, 2.6l   "Kerbau"
A Malay name for Water Buffalo. One that PREFERS to stay in mud.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:42:00 -0400
Subject: Group of Rovers

Steve Marcinko writes "I've always called a group of Rovers an Armada"

Surely that's only when it's a gropup of Santana Rovers.

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 98 08:46:22 EST
Subject: Re: 3 - 4 tube radiator

To clear up all the confusion over bill Rice's radiator. We were climbimng a 
rather steep slope in the VA foothills, and Bill had to stop every 1/4 mile or 
so to cool down. I noticed he was using a late IIa/III type radiator. Some of 
these I have seen, notably form atlantic british and british bulldog, only have 
three vertical rows of tubes. the original has four. I asked bill and he said 
that he got it at AB so i assumed it was a 3 tube. Didn't check though. I have 
a friend who has the 3 tube that doesn't have over heating probs but hes got 
the stock engine. I also suggested to bill that he addd a fan shroud. I think 
that would be a good inexpensive 1st step to solving this problem. you should 
be able to find one cheap. call mike buonanduci at 802 439 5815 and see if he's 
got a used one.

if that doesn't work, maybe we can swap radiators...mine is the normal car type 
core that gets clogged easy. cools great though. how I ended up with that is 
another horror story altogether

later
daveb 

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:07:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Eng change

In a message dated 7/19/98 3:14:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rochnas@stennis.navy.mil writes:

<< I'm 
 curious, since I'm in there already, what a tranny rebuild would 
 involve in both time and cost.  >>

If the tranny is out and you are willing to have the rover laid up for a few
weeks, the rebuild can be done at home with a modicum of general mechanical
experience and a minimum of special tools.  Cost significantly depends on what
you need (just bearings and thrust washers versus synchro gears, and various
gear sets) and who your parts supplier is.  The shop manual is excellent in
stepping you through the whole process.

Nate

------------------------------

From: BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:17:00 -0400
Subject: Bellhousing Plug

I am looking to replace the oil-soaked and generally delapidated
bellhousing plug on my '65 2.25 88".  This is the plug that seals the
oblong hole (about 2" by 3") on the lower left-hand side of the bell
housing.

I can't seem to find it in any of the usual catalogs.  Does anyone know of
a source?

Thanks,
Ben
Maryville, TN

------------------------------

From: BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:28:40 -0400
Subject: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck

I'm replacing the rear leaf spring packs on my '65 88".  As is so often the
case, the project has stalled at the disassembly stage.  Everything is
removed except the large bolts that pass through the front bushing of each
spring pack.  The nuts came right off, but it seems that each bolt has
rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of its bushing.  No amount
of pounding will budge them because the bushing absorbs the impact.

So my only idea is to cut the bolts themselves in two places: just inside
the plates welded to the frame on both sides.  This would allow me to
remove the spring pack with the center section of the bolt still stuck in
the bushing.  Then the bolt head and threaded ends would just fall right
out of their holes.

Anyone ever had this problem and come upon a more elegant solution?  The
springs are complete garbage and I don't mind replacing the bolts.

Thanks,
Ben
Maryville, TN

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:30:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 BEN_NIBALI@denso-diam.com wrote:

> I'm replacing the rear leaf spring packs on my '65 88".  As is so often the
> case, the project has stalled at the disassembly stage.  Everything is
> removed except the large bolts that pass through the front bushing of each
> spring pack.  The nuts came right off, but it seems that each bolt has
> rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of its bushing.  No amount

Heat.

David

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:39:22 +0000
Subject: Re: R/R spring retaining bolts stuck

>> rusted itself quite solidly to the inside sleeve of its bushing.  No amount
>Heat.
Careful!! You've got the petrol tank in close proximity to your front
bushing here.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: steve parker <artdept@mediaone.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:41:52 -0400
Subject: Paint colors

Hello everyone,

It's been a while since I was on the list and it's good to be back.

I have a question about paint colors. Please be patient with me as I
know this type of question is asked all the time. I'm curious as to what
the origainal paint schemes were for the 1960 Series II's? Did they come
in the standard colors (poppy red, bronze green...) or just the pastel
green? Mine has a safari station wagon top that I think was added on
later. Did the 1960 88's come with a soft top only? If they did come
with a hard top should the sides be painted limestone/white or just the
top part with the sun shield?

I would greatly appreciate any info.

Jim Karantinos
Jacksonville, FL

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:45:26 -0400
Subject: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

I need to touch up some spots on the wife's Healey - anyone got a clue
where I can find paint codes for MG/Healey British Racing Green?

               aj"Great little car..."r

------------------------------

From: "John Baker" <daddyo@loxinfo.co.th>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:49:50 +0700
Subject: Braking Mystery

Replaced all components in the braking system on my 1975 Series III 109. It
is a RHD model with a remote Lockheed servo and CV master cylinder (single
cylinder).

After following the traditional bleeding method (lots of pumping) I still
had air in the system. I also noticed that for the front brakes I had
located the bleed nipple in a way that it was blocked by the swivel pin
bolts, and there was not enough room to get a hose on the end.

Now, according to the picture in my Hayne's manual, the line connecting the
upper and lower front brake cylinders is located on the front of the wheel.
However, with the lines connected this way, the remaining WC port on the
top cylinder is for the brake hose, and the bleed nipple would have to be
at the rear port on the lower cylinder, which means it is blocked. Looking
at the old cylinders shows that the bleed nipple was located on the port
which is at an angle. So, I reconnected the line so that it now runs to the
rear. That is, the front port of the top cylinder is connected the brake
hose, the rear port of the top cylinder to the connecting line, the front
port of the lower cylinder contains the bleed screw, and the rear port is
connected to the connecting line.

Just complicate things, my Land Rover parts book, which is fairly hold,
shows the front brakes placement as horizontal, that is, one above the
other, but my newer Haynes shows them vertical, front and rear, which is
how I have set mine up.

I tried again to bleed conventionally but still spongy. Pumping brings a
firm pedal. I also tried pressurizing the M/C as recommended by several
list members, but barely anything came out of the bleed nipple, even
cracked open more than enough turns.

Questions:

Is the way I have assembled my front brakes correct or incorrect?

If no to the above, is it possible that I have switched the backing plates
from L to R (I thought I remember seeing a small L and R on them and
assembled them correctly).

Is it possible to switch the backing plates? Could that account for the
fact that running the connecting line as per the Haynes manual results in
the bleed nipple being blocked by the swivel nuts?

Have I connected the lines incorrectly?

Can anyone understand what I have written above?

I used to think I was a fairly competent mechanic and that the LR would be
a piece of cake. Hah! 

Much appreciation to anyone who can offer help or consolation.

Regards,

John Baker
Bangkok

P.S. Anybody coming to Bangkok contact me so we can talk LRs. Apparently I
missed someone who was looking for someone in Bangkok to do just that
recently.

------------------------------

From: "Jean Gruneberg" <grunberg@iafrica.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:05:12 +0200
Subject: RE: Freelander and its construction

Hi all

Charles wrote....

>Unibody construction rarely goes over well with the military, >because it
costs more to fix it, and some designs are not >general-maintenance
friendly -

Had the misfortune to come across my first Freelander involved in an
accident the other day.  Freelander rear ended another car, probably doing
about 40km/h when he hit it.  It's days like that I'm glad I drive a
defender.  The mess of the front end of the Freelander made me suspect that
it would be a write off.  Subjectively there seemed to be more damage to the
Freelander than to the car it hit.  Admittedly there is not much to damage
hitting a sedan in the boot (trunk) but the Freelander really buckled up...

Ciao
Jean
____________________________________________
Jean Andre Gruneberg
grunberg@iafrica.com

P.O.Box 201010,  Durban North, 4016 KZN, South Africa
cell (082)5518433   home (031)843654

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 98 07:32:07 -0700
Subject: Re: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

>I need to touch up some spots on the wife's Healey - anyone got a clue
>where I can find paint codes for MG/Healey British Racing Green?
;
I know that there are at least two different MG British racing Greens 
depending upon year of manufacture.  Jaguar has a number of British 
Racing and similar greens.  The Healeys may have the same thing and their 
British racing green may or may not be close to the MG British racing 
greens.

This may sound silly but have you tried an automotive paint store?

When the Rover got painted I looked through tons of chips.  I didn't like 
any of the stock series colours but wanted a British car colour.  I chose 
1873 Jaguar British racing green.

When I went to get my 1961 Triumph TR3A painted I went to an automotive 
paint store.  I wanted to take the car from Chevy white back to it's 
original factory signal red. They did not have the paint code but they 
called a special phone number for a paint company and they provided a 
paint formula.  So some if not all paint companies have a number that 
their retailers can call to get paint codes that are not in their books.

Another thought.  I know that the Moss motors Triumph and MG catalogues 
have factory paint codes.  Have you checked to see if the Moss catalogue 
for Healeys has paints codes too?

You could also try the Healey e-mail list.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 98 07:40:12 -0700
Subject: RE: Freelander and its construction

>Had the misfortune to come across my first Freelander involved in an
>accident the other day.  Freelander rear ended another car, probably doing
;>about 40km/h when he hit it.  It's days like that I'm glad I drive a
;>defender.  The mess of the front end of the Freelander made me suspect 
that
;>it would be a write off.  Subjectively there seemed to be more damage 
to the
;>Freelander than to the car it hit.  Admittedly there is not much to 
damage
;>hitting a sedan in the boot (trunk) but the Freelander really buckled 
up...

The buckling is a feature, not a design bug.  It is supposed to absorb 
energy from the crash and keep the occupants alive. While our cars 
survive minor crashes much better than the new designs, you would have a 
much better chance of surviving a major front on crash in a newer 
designed car.

The design tradoff is in damage done to the front end during minor 
crashes verses keeping you alive if the big one happens.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:36:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

>You could also try the Healey e-mail list.

Please do tell - is it on team.net?

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:45:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

> I need to touch up some spots on the wife's Healey - anyone got a clue
> where I can find paint codes for MG/Healey British Racing Green?

For most sprites, the BMC code is GN.29, I don't know what that is in
something you could actually buy.  There are at least two healey BRGs,
which I can't tell apart, except when they get used on the same car.  A
good paint shop should find you what you need.

David

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 98 07:58:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

>>You could also try the Healey e-mail list.
>Please do tell - is it on team.net?
;
Yep.
I have a link to it from my web site.  Go to the Triumph section and 
check the links page.

Take care

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

------------------------------

From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:03:03 +0100
Subject: Re: Braking Mystery

John Baker wrote:
> Replaced all components in the braking system on my 1975 Series III 109. It
> is a RHD model with a remote Lockheed servo and CV master cylinder (single
> cylinder).
> After following the traditional bleeding method (lots of pumping) I still
> had air in the system. 

I also tried pressurizing the M/C as recommended by several
> list members, but barely anything came out of the bleed nipple, even
> cracked open more than enough turns.
> Questions:
> Is the way I have assembled my front brakes correct or incorrect?
> had air in the system. 

My pipes go around the front of the housing, but I had no problem
getting a piece of tube onto the bleed nipple, I will check tonight to
see what could be in the way.

You haven't got a kinked pipe have you? that could bloke the flow,
although I would have thought some fluid would come out.

Not sure about the back plates, I would think it was possible to fit
them the wrong way round, I'll check that too.

Mick Forster
1972 109" Safari 2.25 petrol
1963 88" IIA 2.25 petrol
Very sad Metro :-(
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
http://members.aol.com/Tony4star/
http://stox49.soc.staffs.ac.uk/www49/landys/LWBrst/LWBrst.html
(Details will appear as time allows)

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:39:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Freelander and its construction

> Had the misfortune to come across my first Freelander involved in an
 accident the other day.  Freelander rear ended another car, probably doing
 about 40km/h when he hit it.  It's days like that I'm glad I drive a
 defender.  The mess of the front end of the Freelander made me suspect that
 it would be a write off.  Subjectively there seemed to be more damage to the
 Freelander than to the car it hit.  Admittedly there is not much to damage
> hitting a sedan in the boot (trunk) but the Freelander really buckled up...

They mean that to happen.  The crumpling of the body work allows the car a
much greater distance to stop.  40 kph is about 11 m/s.  If you nailed a
brick wall in series, you would probably come to a stop in 30 cm or so.
my bottom of coffee cup calculations make this about 200 m/s/s of
deceleration.  If you spread the force over a full meter, you reduce the
deceleration to about 60m/s/s.  Which would you rather absorb?  

David 

------------------------------

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:28:14 +0200
Subject: Re: Freelander and its (de)construction

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> The buckling is a feature, not a design bug.  It is supposed to absorb
> energy from the crash and keep the occupants alive.

Hey, TeriAnn when I hit something I want it to know its been hit, and to
stay hit! What kind of ultra-PC, molly-coddling, tree-hugging, leftist
pinko-liberal weenies are L-R trying to turn us into? (Hey! That was a
joke, point that flamethrower somewhere else buddy!) This is, after all,
why series vehicles have such low windscreens: So that when you plow
into something that forces you to slow down suddenly you can arrest your
own forward movement with the top edge of the windscreen frame, instead
of breaking the glass (BTDTX2). 

I have twice been able to drive away from quite serious altercations
involving such nefarious and cunning inanimate objects as fever trees
and concrete gateposts with only minor body panel damage (I don't even
count new bumpers, which at US$25 a pop are almost classifiable as
consumerables).

In fact, I'm quite thrilled knowing that every year all the other
vehicles on the road are becoming softer and more collision-friendly. It
just means that I stand less chance of damaging my Landy next time I
rearend one of them suckers.

> Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create
> beauty wherever you go.

Or "Drive a Landy and create a wake of destruction".

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za
http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:54:41 +0100
Subject: Landies & Beetles

So, how do you persuade someone who fancies getting a VW Beetle, to get a
Landy?

This is a student lady uttering words like "I quite fancy a Beetle to
fiddle with" [rather than a newish Astra]

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:58:38 +0000
Subject: Re: Landies & Beetles

So, how do you persuade someone who fancies getting a VW Beetle, to get a
>Landy?
You dont.Some people are totally beyond the pale...:-)

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:54:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Landies & Beetles

OK, which Beetle is she interested in?

If it's the new one, give up....

If the old, point out to her the much better reliability of a water-cooled
engine, the efficient (compared to a Bug!) heater, the all-weater great
traction, and the parts that aren't much more expensive...

               aj"Filthy things, VWs....."r

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:34:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Not just Freelanders
Content-Disposition: inline

Ron,

I understand your desire for a Series vehicle.  I have 2, a '64 S.IIa 109
SW and a '70 S.III 88, plus my newly acquired grey market '84 Rangie.  I've
owned Landies since '75.  There are different attributes to each vehicle
that you can appreciate.  That's why many of us want at least 1 of each
kind of Rover.  (I want a S.IIb forward control, a Shorland and a 109
pickup.)

Ray

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>               
 to file:      07/18/98 08:34 AM                                  
 pic03523.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Not just Freelanders

Douglas Boehme wrote:

>A 110?  Dream big!  I'm shooting for a 300Tdi 130!
>If it does become available, I'll be trading in my D90
> without a second thought.
Doug, they don't turn around corners on trails as well as a D90.
They are cramped in the back (both 110 and 130)

BUT I want one.  And I want a Series.  Don't ask me why.  The Rangie is far
more practical than any of them. My 2" worth

Regards,
Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, Australia
'86 Range Rover 4.8L auto  "The Last Aquila"
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc auto
check my web site at www.users.bigpond.com/hillman

--0__=gscAaSWQHYkdC8yONjPzJ7k0hBXQu3NWTQJMHBjxnCwTI4w7AK2TBreN

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US
Content-Disposition: inline

Charles,

I agree with you.  Bolted together body is more useful for a true off-road
vehicle.  The unibody construction is good for cheap on-road ONLY vehicles.
Unibody cannot take the lateral stresses imposed by articulation.

Ray

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   CIrvin1258@aol.com                                 
 to file:      07/19/98 11:36 AM                                  
 pic03452.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re: Freelander and defenders to US

"Defender is an extremely expensive vehicle to assemble. It's bolted
together,
which means someone has to do the bolting."

BULL#&%T!

Chevy trucks are bolted together! They don't cost a whole lot.

Ford trucks are bolted together, as are Chrysler trucks!

This is the area, where the accountants are trying to "justify" certain
things, versus what everybody knows works. Typical of a present-day, large
British company. I've worked for British Airways for 9 1/2 years now, so
I've
been there, done that, and seen some pretty incredible stuff - like the
repainting of the tails of all the planes (now, they're talking about
putting
the old colors back, because the public hates the new colors just as much
as
we employees do! Oh well...only 17 million Pounds Sterling down the drain),
and only giving the employees 2 1/2 days pay for profit sharing - after
having
record profits! (not a smart way to keep the profit makers happy)

Unibody construction rarely goes over well with the military, because it
costs
more to fix it, and some designs are not general-maintenance friendly -
which
is where the existing design shines, costly or not.

Re-designing Defender could go the same way as the MG-R: build it with the
U.S. in mind, and not take it there, because nobody would buy a $40,000
MGB.
Granted, people are throwing $53,000 at new Range Rovers, but as I said in
another post, Defendrs are NOT Range Rovers. Last time they were here, they
started at $26,000 (BTW - Discos started at about the same price, but since
Defender is gone, it's jumped to $35,000), and since the Disco price has
gone
up, I can't see them trying to ask more for a Defender, since it's at the
bottom of the (financial) food chain.

Charles

--0__=YSIqZRTSekKUBekffSrPV5kMTNm4Ic6ORq4FSZAiZOzpEVnY4wLpPJ5R

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:43:56 +0100
Subject: Re: Landies & Beetles

I would think the old one - the context is "to fiddle with". So a Series or
Lightweight would be ideal...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com on 07/20/98 04:54:38 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: Landies & Beetles

OK, which Beetle is she interested in?

If it's the new one, give up....

If the old, point out to her the much better reliability of a water-cooled
engine, the efficient (compared to a Bug!) heater, the all-weater great
traction, and the parts that aren't much more expensive...

               aj"Filthy things, VWs....."r

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:35:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)
Content-Disposition: inline

Try any paint dealer who sells Dupont Auto paint.  They have a paint code
book for most any vehicle, including British vehicles back to the 50s.

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com                   
 to file:      07/20/98 09:45 AM                                  
 pic17284.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Speaking of paint...(NOT LR - A-Healey!)

I need to touch up some spots on the wife's Healey - anyone got a clue
where I can find paint codes for MG/Healey British Racing Green?

               aj"Great little car..."r

--0__=VTT8TNlirojvpHWtgG3oJ8OCyzBQiG7FQQnXmf6B2gakPFftwKCZjRlL

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:37:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and its (de)construction
Content-Disposition: inline

TeriAnn,

Your concept of sacrificing the vehicle to save the occupants does not
always bear true.

A few years ago a good friend of mine and former R.O.A.V. member was in a
head-on collision at 55 mph on a California freeway with a Ford Explorer
while in his 109 Long.  (The Ford crossed the median.)  The results of the
altercation was that his Landie did NOT crumple, although the firewall
moved about 12 inches and broke both of his legs, but he did survive.
Unfortunately, both occupants of the Ford died instantly, as their vehicle
did collapse upon impact.  The Ford was virtually new and totaled and the
109 was not.

Give me a ladder frame and bolted on body any day!!!!

Ray

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>                 
 to file:      07/20/98 11:28 AM                                  
 pic32441.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re: Freelander and its (de)construction

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> The buckling is a feature, not a design bug.  It is supposed to absorb
> energy from the crash and keep the occupants alive.
Hey, TeriAnn when I hit something I want it to know its been hit, and to
stay hit! What kind of ultra-PC, molly-coddling, tree-hugging, leftist
pinko-liberal weenies are L-R trying to turn us into? (Hey! That was a
joke, point that flamethrower somewhere else buddy!) This is, after all,
why series vehicles have such low windscreens: So that when you plow
into something that forces you to slow down suddenly you can arrest your
own forward movement with the top edge of the windscreen frame, instead
of breaking the glass (BTDTX2).

I have twice been able to drive away from quite serious altercations
involving such nefarious and cunning inanimate objects as fever trees
and concrete gateposts with only minor body panel damage (I don't even
count new bumpers, which at US$25 a pop are almost classifiable as
consumerables).

In fact, I'm quite thrilled knowing that every year all the other
vehicles on the road are becoming softer and more collision-friendly. It
just means that I stand less chance of damaging my Landy next time I
rearend one of them suckers.

> Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create
> beauty wherever you go.
Or "Drive a Landy and create a wake of destruction".

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za
http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

--0__=SJ3ksNRuAT0yBnYsug8Vhbvaq9n3qsvPVNqkbxncKsazJyy7LYAZRkbd

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:54:44 EDT
Subject: Freelander and Defenders to US

On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote: "Unibody construction rarely
goes over well with the military, because it costs more to fix it, and some
designs are not general-maintenance friendly - which is where the existing
design shines, costly or not."

Charles:

Unibody construction was featured on the Ford built, M-151, quarter ton
truck used extensively by the US military, especially in Vietnam.  I drove
them a lot in 1971 and found they worked quite well.  The M151's were faster
than the cutwing 109 Land Rovers driven by my digger friends from the Olive
Drab Cab Company.

The controversy with M-151s was regarding the swing axles found on the early
models.  This led to the dreaded Ralph Nader phenomenon which kept the M-151
out of the surplus channel.  I am not aware of any shortcomings of this
truck related to it's unibody construction.  Perhaps a reader with more
experience in a motor pool can provide more info.

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:11:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and Defenders to US
Content-Disposition: inline

If the M-151 is so great,
1. why don't you have one and
2. why isn't Uncle Sam still using them?

I seriously doubt if the M-151 is a true unibody vehicle.  Does it have a
frame?  If so, it is not unibody.

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   DONOHUEPE@aol.com                                  
 to file:      07/20/98 12:54 PM                                  
 pic09399.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Freelander and Defenders to US

On Sun, 19 Jul 1998 CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote: "Unibody construction rarely
goes over well with the military, because it costs more to fix it, and some
designs are not general-maintenance friendly - which is where the existing
design shines, costly or not."

Charles:

Unibody construction was featured on the Ford built, M-151, quarter ton
truck used extensively by the US military, especially in Vietnam.  I drove
them a lot in 1971 and found they worked quite well.  The M151's were
faster
than the cutwing 109 Land Rovers driven by my digger friends from the Olive
Drab Cab Company.

The controversy with M-151s was regarding the swing axles found on the
early
models.  This led to the dreaded Ralph Nader phenomenon which kept the
M-151
out of the surplus channel.  I am not aware of any shortcomings of this
truck related to it's unibody construction.  Perhaps a reader with more
experience in a motor pool can provide more info.

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109

--0__=pi5mHvQENQUAVbsKjU7LIYRAoQADnq5OOZkiBkNFvLkMTmpWoM8Gf6oZ

------------------------------

From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:13:26 +0100
Subject: Re: Freelander and its (de)construction[multipart mime alternative 6 
lines deleted.]

Erm, unless I'm sorely misguided, the Explorer has a Ladder Frame? At least
mine does! And by the looks of it, most of the 'body' is removable? (Hope
so, I've bent a few bits of mine and will need to replace 'em soon.....)

Neil

1974 Series III - 'Robin' - SHJ 299M
1998 Ford Explorer - 'What Boy Racer? Where? I Can't see him!?' - NIB 4318
1998 Daewoo Lanos - 'Well, the wife has to take the kids to nursery in
something!'

------------------------------

From: "Christopher J. Clanton" <clantoc@cscoe.ac.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:46:57 -0500
Subject: 1969 88" Daily Driver For Sale -- Minneapolis

I hate to do it, but I don't think the 1969 IIa 88" is going to cut it 
as my daily driver much longer. We have recently moved 
increasing my commute from 10 miles round trip to about 50. 
Being 6'4" 220lbs, anyone familiar with the 88" SW can appreciate 
the circumstances.

Here's the scoop. 1969 88" LR SW. Not a Bugeye... Headlights 
are recessed into the wings. Tan in color. ~64K original miles. 
Free-wheel hubs, running lights, and the alternator conversion are 
the only non-original components. Its in VERY good original condition. 
You're not inheriting anyone else's resto-job. No rust, mechanically sound, 
tight fitting hard-top. I've put about 6500 miles on it in the last six months 
with no problems. If I could afford to keep it as a third car, I would. Initial 
purchase inspection and subsequent maintenace has been done by Eric 
at Foreign Affairs (for those of you in Minneapolis), and he can attest to the 
overall condition both mechanical and cosmetic.

I paid $9500 for it last January and am open to offers around $8500.

Please respond back to clantoc@cscoe.ac.com 

*********************************************************
* Christopher Clanton               *   *     Andersen Consulting		
*
* clantoc@cscoe.ac.com           *   *     Minneapolis, MN USA		*
*                                             69 IIa 88				
*
*********************************************************  

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:27:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Freelander and Defenders to US [multipart mime alternative 6 lines 
deleted.]

On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Ray Burton wrote:

> If the M-151 is so great,
> 1. why don't you have one and
> 2. why isn't Uncle Sam still using them?

the 151 had roll-over problems.  It had a rear swing axle, which would
cause the inside wheel to lift in hard turns, and in severe cases, the
wheel was said to flip under the car.  The retired vehicles were destroyed
prior to being sold as surplus, allegedly by driving a tank over them.  

> I seriously doubt if the M-151 is a true unibody vehicle.  Does it have a
> frame?  If so, it is not unibody.
> 2. why isn't Uncle Sam still using them?

The M-151 is a unibody, even though it has a box-sectionish frame.  The
floor and frame are one piece.  I don't know if it is a single pressing or 
if they are welded together.  

 
> --0__=pi5mHvQENQUAVbsKjU7LIYRAoQADnq5OOZkiBkNFvLkMTmpWoM8Gf6oZ
> 	name="pic09399.pcx"

Would you please stop sending this?

David

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:31:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and its (de)construction[multipart mime
Content-Disposition: inline

Neil,

You're right.  It does have a ladder frame, but in the accident I was
referring to it definitely came out a poor second to the 109 it attempted
to destroy, killing both occupants.  Again, it's only a PRETEND truck!!!  I
have both Ford and Land Rover and know which is REAL!

Ray

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@email.msn.com>     
 to file:      07/20/98 02:13 PM                                  
 pic00696.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Re: Freelander and its (de)construction[multipart mime
      alternative 6 lines deleted.]

Erm, unless I'm sorely misguided, the Explorer has a Ladder Frame? At least
mine does! And by the looks of it, most of the 'body' is removable? (Hope
so, I've bent a few bits of mine and will need to replace 'em soon.....)

Neil

1974 Series III - 'Robin' - SHJ 299M
1998 Ford Explorer - 'What Boy Racer? Where? I Can't see him!?' - NIB 4318
1998 Daewoo Lanos - 'Well, the wife has to take the kids to nursery in
something!'

------------------------------

From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:40:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Freelander and Defenders to US [multipart mime alternative 6

Dave,

If the body sits on a frame it isn't a true unibody.  The concept of
unibody construction is that the frame is replaced/omited due to an
integral welded body unit that acts as a frame.  This would omit the M-151,
even if the body was a one piece welded unit.

Again, if it was so great why doesn't Uncle Sam still use them.  The answer
is that they weren't great at all.  They were killers even in the field.

If you're such a fan of ex-military Jeeps, maybe you should get a M-38 to
replace your Landie.

Ray

------------------------------

From: "richard a. nicotra" <nicotra@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:56:13 -0400
Subject: black black smoke

Dear list:

My ser III 88 has picked up a bad habit these last 2 weeks. It is smoking
badly.

1. it is a 2.25 gas
2. I misadjusted the contact points a few weeks ago (too wide).
3. readjusted points yesterday and noticed my coil had black electrical
burn marks on the point where the HT lead connects.
4. cleaned it out, put it back together and it smokes more than ever.
5. the engine stalls at every stoplight.
6. runs fairly well on the open road besides the dark black smoke show.

misc: 	1 yr. old zenith carb (new o-ring last fall)
 	champion plugs (n11yc) black and carbon fouled
	lucas speed leads
	1 yr. old distributor

Any help would be appreciated.  Lately it has not been "fun to drive."

thanks,

Rick Nicotra

------------------------------

From: "Stude, Herman L." <hermans@krts.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:50:28 -0500
Subject: Tooll  Box Rust

Dear List;

Anyone have any good ideas for keeping out rust from under the driver's
seat in my SIII 88.  Drain holes, super paint, under coating, etc. 
Looking for ideas.

Thanks,

Herman

------------------------------

From: "Joseph H. Huston  Jr." <JHH@stevenslee.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:48:33 -0400
Subject: Lifeline for a novice

Although I've owned it for 4 years, I'm just about to embark on
restoring/buffing out a  1967/68   88" IIA.  I've downloaded several of the
articles from the RoverWorld website, etc..  Very helpful, but:
     Is there a general guide on restoring 88 IIA's ? ( Mother says it never
hurts to ask even dumb questions)

    Does anyone know of a shop in the areas around any of  Philadelphia,
 Pa,  Wilmington, Del or Lancaster, Pa which has particular expertise in
working on Series Rovers?   When I first got it, I couldn't figure out a
problem with the wipers. The service manager at the principal dealership
in West Chester, Pa. took one look at my beast and said that since it was
older than most of their techs, they couldn't be of much help and had no
ideas where I might go.  Clever, but not helpful.  Any recommendations?

    Is there a club/cell/coven in the Western Phila suburbs?  I couldn't find
one listed on the website.

------------------------------

From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:35:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Tooll  Box Rust

That shouldn`t happen, unless you clean your tools of the mass quantities of
oil (if you left them oily the box won`t rust)    :^)
RGDS, Rick

------------------------------

From: Axel Pawlik <axelpawlik@tinet.ie>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:19:24 +0100
Subject: Re: Braking Mystery

John,

just to console you: I have the same setup (brake line
via the back end, inaccessible bleed screw) on the 109"
brakes on my 88". 

Obviously my brakes are a replacement for the stock
88" brakes. Maybe the reversed backplate thought is
a good one...

	Axel (consoled myself now :-)

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:30:59 EDT
Subject: Re-Seeking coil sprung frame over experience

Gerald wrote;
>Anyone here done a Series frame over to a coil sprung chassis? Or know
>someone who has?

Hi Gerald

I built my hybrid myself in the back yard, I suppose you could call building a
hybrid a "frame over to a coil sprung chassis". 

What do you want to know?

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ a rolling RR chassis awaiting the right body!

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:31:12 EDT
Subject: Quoting

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry.
I cannot believe I acidentally pasted the whole of the digest instead of just
one post yesterday. My only excuse is that I had just driven to billing and
back in the hybrid (250 miles) and my mind was still numb from the experience.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
+ a rolling RR chassis awaiting the right body!

------------------------------

From: "BROWN DAVID E (DAVE)" <debrown@srp.gov>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:41:44 -0700
Subject: Ausie slang...

Ron, the Outback steakhouse is an American chain or restaurants that
feature an Australian theme.  The waiters, and menu use a lot of Ausie
terms. They also feature various Australian beers.  

Good tucker too!  That reminds me... it's been a while since I've been
there... think it's time for a repeat visit.

G-day mate!
Dave...

------------------------------

From: "Gareth Lowe" <gareth@allbran.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:52:46 +0100
Subject: Smokey 90

I have a LR 90 2.5 turbo diesel (1990) with about 95k on the clock. When I
start it from cold there is a lot of blueish/white smoke which persists
until I have driven for a couple of minutes. I have also recently noticed
oil in the air cleaner element.

Is all this caused by piston rings or could it be something else? and more
importantly how much is it going to cost? :o)

Cheers G.

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:43:57 -0400
Subject: Zenith question

Len N. Perdic <lnp@worldchat.com> wrote:

>It's seems that the Series III is running a tad rough these days.  She
>idles way too low and when I start 'er up, I get black smoke coming from
>the exhaust (not a lot).

>I know that these may seem rather trivial questions to those that are more
>mechanically adept, so please pardon the "newbie-ness".  I would
>appreciate any and all comments.

I don't care what the Haynes manual says...*there ain't no "mixture screw"
on a Zenith 36IV * !!  There are two and only two "adjustments" - save
swapping out jets - the *only* real way to change the mixture.  One is the
slow running adjustment which leaks a controlled amount of petrol past the
throttle butterfly.  The other is the throttle stop screw.  If it is
running rich, most likely the O-ring has perished, allowing excess fuel to
spill down the throat.  This can also be a result of the two halves of the
carb warping, as Zenith/Solex deleted a critical annealing step from the
manufacturing process.  Warping can be cured by "glass plate grinding"
which can be found in the archives.  Good luck!

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:43:50 -0400
Subject: Nicked again

Elwyn York <eyork@ey-eg.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Once in the garden i found my 5 rims & tyres had gone down to 2. that is,
>the ones not holding the shed up!

>So. Some kind neighbour has helped themselves to 3 rims and tyres.... if i
>find out who did it i will put the hi-lift it good use... Oh well. Just
>have to stick to the Deestones. Bugger, aint it!!!

Yup.  Some miscreant nicked the spare off my 88 two weeks ago.  I had the
bonnet up and laid the spare on the ground beside the vehicle.  Never mind
that the tyre was purchased in *1977*, the sidewalls were cracked from UV
degradation, it barely held air, and the rim was warped and rusted and fit
nothing else on this continent 'cept a Land rover, some bloody bugger still
made off with it....

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:45:32 +1000
Subject: Hell is where ...

Karl Kurz  wrote:

>Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks Italian, the mechanics
>German, the lovers French, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hmm.

>Hell is where the chefs are British, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics
>French, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.

Woe is me - 28 years of marriage and now I find this out!  My wife is
Swiss - but she *can* cook (as could her mother) and she can organise.

>Concerning the Swiss component..... they really are just a nasty
>combination of the above...and I'll argue that one with you anytime.

As Sargeant Shultz used to say on "Hogan's Heroes" - "I know nothing!"

Ron

------------------------------

From: JKwas61947@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:36:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Nicked again

     I've had more crap stolen from my Land Rovers than anything else I've
ever been involved in.  What's really bad about it is the fact that it's
fellow "enthusiasts" stealing from us.  What good is a Land Rover wiring
harness or a set of wheels to a non Rover owner?  Then there's TeriAnn's
experience with the gritty oil additive.  I can keep my racecar out in the
open overnight at the races, practically inviting theft and sabotage from
competitors, but my Land Rover gets the Booby Traps when I'm not around....

John Kwasnik 
Sherburne NY

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:44:06 -0300
Subject: Re: Tooll  Box Rust

Stude, Herman L. wrote:
> Dear List;
> Anyone have any good ideas for keeping out rust from under the driver's
> seat in my SIII 88.  Drain holes, super paint, under coating, etc.
> Looking for ideas.
> Thanks,

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Thanks,
> Herman
 
Stay in a desert climate other wise rust will always get you
    John

------------------------------

From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:51:27 -0400
Subject: 1972 SIII 88 For Sale

A friend who does not have internet access has asked me to post this for
him..

1972 Series III 88 2.25 Petrol for sale in Toronto. $12,000 US or best
offer.

Vehicle is in good solid condition having had the chassis replaced
several years ago and the bulkhead rebuilt at the same time. Gearbox was
done in '96. Well maintained (full maintenance records available) and
used as a daily driver. Owner wishes to start a new project, hence sale.

For pictures, a full description of vehicle and all work and
modifications done, go to the Upper Canada Land Rover Association (UCLA)
web page at
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/6053/
and follow the links to the For Sale page.

Contact Larry Berti  directly at (416)741-6275 (home) or (416) 467-8000
ext. 242 (work) or email me at brstore@ibm.net and I'll pass along any
inquiries.

Larry and his 88 will be at Greek Peak.

Thanks
Brett

------------------------------

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From: "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:50:25 +1200
Subject: super Landrover screen saver

Good morning.
While surfing the net I came across this web site. 
http://www.jumbo.com/pages/mm/ss/sections.asp?x_sectionid=1801&mv=7
It has a excellent screen saver of a rover in different states of
discomfort. A word of warning, the file to down load is 2 megs.
Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
Series 3
tomd@clear.net.nz

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	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 ]

------------------------------

From: JKwas61947@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 19:59:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Miss Golightly's tantrum

Trevor,

     I think there's a Wendys, a TacoBell, AND a McDonalds in Cortland.  Happy
Anniversary!

There's a place called Turbecks in Ithaca that was very good a few years ago.
Probably still is.  The ambiance is nice, plus there's a cheap motel across
the road...

------------------------------

From: "Mark Oellermann" <marko@vrt.com.au>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:07:48 +1000
Subject: (Fwd) 

subscribe lro-digest marko@vrt.com.au
________________________

Mark Oellermann
Senior Systems Engineer
VRT Systems
Phone:	+617 3367 1388
Fax:	+617 3367 1295
E-mail:	marko@vrt.com.au
Web:	www.vrt.com.au
________________________

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:10:56 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Hoisting the engine. Where to wrap chain or connect to engine?

Rob,
Sorry I didn't see this til Monday and I'll probably discover that someone
else has answered this already, but we lifted both together on my friend's
NADA 109 SW.  Used an engine hoist I borrowed from my favorite garage and a
rachet strap around the engine and a lot of back muscles, since we didn't have
an ideal anchor point, as I recall.  But it worked just fine.

Bill R.

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:27:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Freelander to Come to North America!

Steve Swiger wrote:
> Anyone want to speculate on how successful the Freelander will be in the
> Camel Trophy this year?  That's a pretty bold move...
> Steve and Moose (III 88 SW)

The Camel Trophy has been "dumbed down" to make it suitable for the
Freelander. Over the years the CT has gone from a Balls to the Wall off
road event to a bicyle outing, Shame. It is obvious that the tobacco
industry is attempting to introduce a "fitness" theme that is meant to
overshadow the fact that cigarettes will kill you.  You would definately
need to be extremely fit to survive th early CTs but the ability to run
a full marathon narrows it down to a pretty select group that is not
neccessarily fitter than those who are not natural runners.
 All this is purely accademic for me I'm too old any way and they don't 
Camels in Canada.
     John and Muddy (there's only one of  us that smokes and it isn't
John)

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:48:41 -0300
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US

CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote:
> <<but I do not understand why some of the assembly of a Defender can't be
> relatively automated with relatively minor changes to the way the sheetmetal
> is placed on the truck.>>
> It's easy - $$$$$$$$$$.
> To automate an assembly line of this nature, can cost BIG bucks to begin with,
> and even bigger bucks, if the initial machines break down. This in turn,

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 33 lines)]
> be a very big risk, after 50 years.
> Charles
 Seem to me that the most practical remodel Land Rover could do would be
to make a pressed body (read cheaper to build) and mount it on the
proven Chassis and running gear of the current Defender. This would
save  scads of $$ in retooling, produce a "new " vehicle and still be
attractive to the Military. Shouldn't be too hard to do.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 98 18:02:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Nicked again

>I've had more crap stolen from my Land Rovers than anything else I've
>ever been involved in.  What's really bad about it is the fact that it's
'>fellow "enthusiasts" stealing from us.  What good is a Land Rover wiring
'>harness or a set of wheels to a non Rover owner?  Then there's TeriAnn's
'>experience with the gritty oil additive.  I can keep my racecar out in 
the
'>open overnight at the races, practically inviting theft and sabotage 
from
'>competitors, but my Land Rover gets the Booby Traps when I'm not 
around....

I have learned from my mistakes.  I have hasps and matching padel locks 
all over the place.  I keep an odd keyed one on the water tank to prevent 
accidents when half asleep though.  It is sitting next to the front left 
fuel tank opening.

A couple of years ago I won a prize at a British car meet for having the 
car with the most locks.

I also park the car with the fuel selector in the off position.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:07:33 -0300
Subject: Re: Nicked again

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> >I've had more crap stolen from my Land Rovers than anything else I've
> >ever been involved in.  What's really bad about it is the fact that it's
> '>fellow "enthusiasts" stealing from us.  What good is a Land Rover wiring
> '>harness or a set of wheels to a non Rover owner?  Then there's TeriAnn's
> '>experience with the gritty oil additive.  I can keep my racecar out in
> the
> '>open overnight at the races, practically inviting theft and sabotage
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 31 lines)]
> "How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
> Amelia Earhart 1898-1937
Ah Ha now if you'll just tell me where you have parked the car I'll be
off!
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Eats in the GP Area (Ithaca)

Trevor - (and all you food lovers out there)

There is good food to be found in Ithaca!!!

Take Rt 13 South to Ithaca - maybe about 30 to 40 minutes.

1. The Moosewood - Famous Veggy Place
2. The Station Resturaunt - Ex-Train Stop - American-type Fare
3. The Antlers - American-type Fare
4. Joe's - Italian (IMHO - the BEST Italian food I've eaten - sometimes
inconsistant
     though)
5. Kayuga - Japanese
6. Coyote Loco - Mexican/Authentic
7. Thai Cuisine - "The best Thai Food in NYS including NYC"
8. Sangam - Indian
9. Lotus - Korean/Japanese
10. The Nines - Pizza/Bar Food (Very Good Pizza)
11. Renee's - "American Bistro"
12. Rongovian Embassy (in Trumansburg) - Mexican/Pizza/American
(Interesting Place
        and entertainment - worth a visit)
13. Souvlaki House - Greek
14. Ithaca Bakery - Perfect Baked Goods & Interesting Breads (IMHO -
another must
       eat)
15. Stella's Cafe - Coffee/Dessert/Cocktails (IMHO - The best coffee in Ithaca)

How's that?

Cheers - Peter

(Anybody else need to know anything about the area? There are several nice
campsites in the area, and lots of gorges.)

-----------------------
Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/psychology/finlay/finlaylab.html
-----------------------

------------------------------

From: Justin Gassaway <jgassaway@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Land Rover Freelander in US?

Is the Freelander comming to the US?  If so, when?  How much will it
cost?

Thanks, Justin

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:03:02 EDT
Subject: Outback (Yes, LR Content)

Russ,
Yeah, those theme restaurants give me the willies--I feel like my intelligence
has been insulted going there.  Pretty tacky and the steak wasn't anything to
write home about and spent way too much.  Would've never gone there in the 1st
place but the couple I was with weren't up for Sushi.

The section of Outback's menu covering beef (as opposed to seafood) is called
"Land Rovers"  Can LRNA sue them for this?  I hope so.

Bill Rice
Columbus GA

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:03:08 EDT
Subject: Re:  3 - 4 tube radiator

Hi all,
Re. my hot engine woes, Bill Leacock asked if it ran hot prior to the rad
change.  Never drove her this hard in this kind of heat before.  I do remember
her running hot while stuck in the Down East rally off-road traffic jam a few
years back, but that was prior to electric fan installation, so there wasn't
really any air going through the rad at that time.

He also asked how I was measuring the temp--just a Sunpro temp guage from any
parts store.  But the cap does let fluid run into the resevoir at about 240 or
so at low elevation and about 215 at high altitude, and those figures seem
about right for boil over.  Or maybe both cap and temp guage are faulty.

Dave B. said to buy a shroud.  I will.  I'll also throw a new cap on the rad
and see if that might be part of the prob--insufficient pressure.  If that
doesn't work maybe I'll take him up on the rad. swap.

Donald said he's got a Chevy 4.1 (in a Rover?)  Which rad do you use and what
kind of fan/ shroud setup do you have?

Thanks to all for your help.

Bill

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:03:13 EDT
Subject: Re:  re: 3 vs. 4 tube radiator

Donald,
Is that Chevy 4.1 (is that a 283?) in a Rover?  If so, which rad do you use
and what the heck does 70kPa stand for?

And, no, I will never use stop leak again.  That's why I replaced the
rad--that thing was shot.

If you do indeed have the 4.1 in a Rover, I'd like to chat about the technical
nicities of getting that in there, seeing as how I already have the right
bellhousing adapter and woud just need to worry about engine mounts and making
sufficient space under the bonnet.

Thanks,
Bill

------------------------------

From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:17:14 -0400

subscribe lro johnsonm@borg.com
subscribe rro johnsonm@borg.com
end

------------------------------

From: "The Becketts" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:00:52 +1000
Subject: Re: Aussie slang...

Dave Bown wrote:

>Ron, the Outback steakhouse is an American chain or restaurants that
>feature an Australian theme.  The waiters, and menu use a lot of Ausie
>terms. They also feature various Australian beers.

That's scary !

>Good tucker too!

Can't be Australian.  My wife is Swiss - she makes good tucker.
Have you blokes ever caught "The Bush Tucker Man" on your cable networks?

>G-day mate!

No, you say "G'day, mate" when you meet and greet, not when you leave.
"Mate" is a very useful term.  You can even use it with people you know.
Especially useful when you can't remember someone's name - and you should
remember.

Ron

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:14:17 +0100
Subject: Re: Zenith Carb

I think when you're rebuilding, the O-ring should be replaced as a matter
of course?

Apparently the metal isn't heat-treated properly so it can warp - you may
want to flatten the two halves of the main carb. body. Others on the list
will be more knowledgeable about it.

There's also a port that needs blocking on "generic" Zeniths. The Land
Rover manuals show it already blocked.

I had a smoking problem just over a year ago - turned out to be the gaskets
on the "economy device" (a membrane valve;  fuel was leaking past and
contaminating the vacuum)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

"Perdic, Len - INC" <lperdic@laidlaw.com> on 07/20/98 08:40:10 PM

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Zenith Carb

Richard:

Thanks for your reply!
I'm still puzzling through this carb adjustment business; haven't owned
a carb since my TR6 (twenty years ago).
Are you aware of any known problems with the Zenith carb and an o-ring
(relating to the mixture)?

Cheers,
Len

BTW, Please send reply to lnp@worldchat.com

------------------------------

From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:28:22 +0100
Subject: Re: Braking Mystery

> I also tried pressurizing the M/C as recommended by several
> > list members, but barely anything came out of the bleed nipple, even
> > cracked open more than enough turns.
>          [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
> > Questions:
> > Is the way I have assembled my front brakes correct or incorrect?
> I will check tonight to see what could be in the way.

I had a look at my 109" Series III front brakes, and the pipes do go
around the front, but on the bottom cylinder the pipe goes into the
straight hole and the bleed nipple is in the angled hole. The pipe comes
down close to the housing bends out from the back plate and has a tight
U-bend to go into the straight hole of the cylinder.
There is then clear access to the bleed nipple and a tube can be easily
attached for bleeding. I used a 5 foot length of neoprene tube, from the
beer making kit, held high with croc clips and string to the garage
roof. This stops any air getting back into the system and also any fluid
going all over the place (most times!).

 Mick Forster
 1972 109" Safari 2.25 petrol
 1963 88" IIA 2.25 petrol
 Very sad Metro :-(
 http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
 http://members.aol.com/Tony4star/
 http://stox49.soc.staffs.ac.uk/www49/landys/LWBrst/LWBrst.html
 (Details will appear as time allows)

------------------------------

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