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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:07:14 EDT
Subject: RE: Diconnecting the headlights/ rephraseing the question.

In a message dated 7/16/98 9:45:51 PM, you wrote:

in halogen headlights.  Prepare for a large barrage of questions.>>

I switched from stock sealed beam headlights (US) to Hella H-4 Halogens. Aside
from having a better bulb in them, you can see that the lens is of better
quality and the light pattern is more even. I would highly recommend them.
Turn them off before you dunk the car in water, because they do run hotter
than normal candles, and will crack if suddenly immersed in cool water. You
also get a choice of bulbs to put in, but if you want big illumination, make
sure your wires won't melt.

I also ran a 10ga power supply to some 30A relays for the lamps, using the
original headlight wires as triggers, that way the lamps don't draw power
through the switch, probably not a huge issue on the 110, but maybe more of
one on a 2 fuse setup.

--pat.

------------------------------

From: Jett.Hogger@prodigy.com (MR JOHN M ROSSI)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:54:39, -0500
Subject: Should I paint a new galvanised frame?

Hello Joe.  I would leave it alone or maybe clear coat it.  Did you 
have your frame done in knoxville?  I live in Flintstone, ga.  Just 
south of chattanooga.  And would did it cost to have the frame done? 
Do you have the name, address, and phone of the company?   Thanks   
John

____
John  Rossi

------------------------------

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:43:20 +0200
Subject: Re: A Leak of Rovers.

How about "A cloud of land Rovers"

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:58:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Should I paint a new galvanised frame?

Painting a frame:

Depends - if you want it to look original - go ahead and do it. Etch the
silly thing with vinegar before you do, though - most paints don't stick
well to galvanizing.

Does it actually need to be painted - I'd say no. Galvanizing in itself is
a good protectant.

Waxoyl - why not? Won't hurt anything...

Just don't jam the frame on rocks and break the zinc coating and you'll do
fine.

                         ajr

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:03:48 -0400
Subject: Re: A Cloud?? of Rovers.

Dunno about that one....

Somehow, I always picture clouds as light and fluffy - a Rover is about as
light and fluffy as a brick souffle....

A Menace of Rovers, maybe.....8*)

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden" <rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:13:22 +0100
Subject: Re: A Cloud?? of Rovers.

All this talk of springs....

A Wallow of Rovers?

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com on 07/17/98 01:03:48 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: A Cloud?? of Rovers.

Dunno about that one....

Somehow, I always picture clouds as light and fluffy - a Rover is about as
light and fluffy as a brick souffle....

A Menace of Rovers, maybe.....8*)

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 98 05:24:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Hoisting the engine. Where to wrap chain or connect to engine?

>So what is the best way to hoist it?  Where should I anchor my chains or
>wrap the chains?  Never done this before.  

If your engine is complete there should be metal plates at each end of 
your head that have slot shaped holes in them.  These are lifting rings.  
You need a length of chain with hooks.

A common alternative for engines missing the lifting plates is to use the 
head bolts.  You need to take a large dia chain, round out the last link 
with a punch.  Put a flat asher between the bolt head and the chain link 
then tighten down the bolt.  If the bolt sticks up, it can bend under the 
weight of the engine.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:40:19 -0500
Subject: H4s(90/145)  vs Vision Plus (60/55)

I am going Halogen.

After discussing the matter with local law enforcement, it appears that
the state of Minnesota does not have a wattage limit.  Therefore it
appears that H4s (90/145) are legal.  

What are your recommendations:  H4s (90/145) or Rover North Hella Vison
Plus (60/55). Any problems with going with the higher wattage H4s?  I
assume (and my local state trooper agrees) that if I am legal and
licensed in MN, that a state with a wattage limit cannot issue a
citation for the H4s as I drive through their state.  

What are your collective thoughts on this matter?

Thanks.

cwolfe

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:21:29 EDT
Subject: Re-A few questions from a newbie

Kevin asked;
Could I use one to pull a trailer, i.e. a trailer with an MGB race car on it? 

No problem, so long as the combined weight fits within your local
vehicle/trailer regs. I have towed a large vehicle trailer plus Range Rover
load with a 2 1/4 petrol Lightweight. It would not go very fast but felt safe
and stopping was no problem.

Is it possible to drop the famous Rover aluminum V-8 into a Series? 

Again no problem, this is a very popular conversion here in the UK. Many
companies make conversion plates to couple the V8 to both ser 11 and 111
gearboxes. The power can be a little too much for the drive train if driven
with a heavy right foot, but many have been driven for years with this
conversion with only the odd broken half shaft in Rover axles. The later 109s
of course have a Sailsbury rear axle which will cope much better. The brakes
can easily be upgraded to cope with the extra speed of a V8 in earlier 88s by
using later 109 parts. Fitting 3.9 diff's from the Range Rover will improve
highway speeds, and strenghthen the drive train, whilst retaining standard
half shafts, unfortuanatly these cannot be used in the Sailsbury axles. The
ser 11 gearbox seems to handle the extra power better than the ser111. 

If a series Land Rover with a Rover V8 is what you fancy then go for it, it
could turn out to be much more fun than the MG, and at much safer speeds. I
get all the motoring thrills I need at walking pace or less, but it is still
great sport to leave boy racers in hot hatches standing at the lights now and
again. Even more fun to do it to them again at the next set (this trick works
best in the wet).

Mike Rogers

Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid (with Rover V8) 

------------------------------

From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:21:33 EDT
Subject: 6000 miles in 3 weeks (kind of wordy)

Hi everybody,
Long time no read.  Doggone, you people write a lot.  I've spent the last
several hours trying to catch up on my e-mail, and so far have made it as far
as 26 June.  

I now live in Columbus, GA, and my phone number here (not that any of you ever
had my old number, but . . .) is (706)-569-8493.  Please give me a call if you
are cruising through and want to chat/ visit/ sleep on my floor.

For those of you who care, here is the Readers' Digest version of my trip:
For those who don't, just hit the "previous" arrow on your screen now and move
on to something REALLY interesting, like whether or not 110 axles are strong
enough to propel a series vehicle in 2WD.

18 June:  Left Watertown and drove to Ottawa w/ a friend who's dating a girl
up there (on the Quebec side).  Went to an awful trendy bar w/ about 75% males
in attendance (and NO it wasn't one of those bars) until entirely too late in
the evening.  Slept at a friend of his girlfriend's apt.

19 June:  Woke late, went out, ate dinner, out to bar.  back home w/ Captain
Excitement and his girlfriend by midnight, at which point I announced that I
was off to the rally.  Drove back into town, hung around until last call (had
ONE PINT, for those of you shocked at any drunken driving implications of that
sentence), and left for the BDay Party.  Arrived at 4, having consumed two
large cups of coffee.  Attempted to wrap up in my poncho on the grass next to
my Rover until I gave up at 6:30, having donated several pints to the local
mosquito population.  

19-21 June:  Did the Rally thing.  Best darn LR event I've ever been to.
Perhaps some offset rims would make Mrs. Merdle a bit more stable on side
slopes . . . 

21 June:  Leave Rally; drive to Kingston for dinner at the Brewing Company.
My favorite place for a pint.  Had to say goodbye.  Then off to Watertown to
get the last few things from my apt.  Cleared it out about 11:30 and then
drove to Buffalo and got a hotel room.

22 June:  Drove to Grandparents' house just north of Columbus, Ohio.  Trip
uneventful

23 June:  Check all my gear oil levels and grease U-joints.  Leave Ohio at 9;
arrive St. Louis MO at 4:30.  Stay there for a few days for some good friends'
wedding.  Put in a 160 degree thermostat to try to combat high temps while
driving at 65mph for long periods.  Recieved DeLUXE seat bottom for MY side of
the car, cause my butt wasn't going to hold out for the trip on my old "looks
like a cushion but you'll really be sitting on plywood" SIIA seat.   Had to
drive to UPS depot to pick it up since Eric "extension 231 at AB" Riston
thinks "Lora" and "Flora" are indistinguishable.  But I didn't mind once I
placed my hindquarters on that luxurious piece of vinyl heaven.  Maybe someday
I'll treat my occaisonal passenger to that kind of comfort.

28 June:  Leave St. Louis at 6 a.m. for Evergreen CO, intending to stop
somewhere in KS.  Just kept driving, though.  880 miles in a dismal 17.5
hours.  Sorry to have skipped generous invite in Manhattan KS, but just got in
a groove and couldn't stop.

29 June:  Disassemble/reassemble FR Warn hub w/ fresh RTV.  Leak stopped.
Topped off all oils.  Leaned carb mixture 1/2 turn and advanced timing for
altitude.  Note both rear hubs leaking down interior of brake backplates
(maybe should've put new distance pieces on when i put new seals on the
Salisbury prior to install. eh?)  but contamination not going on shoes, so no
worries (as our annoying waiter at Outback steakhouse said the other night
right before I strangled him).

30 June:  meet Jim Hall and go do some great off-roading in CO between South
Park (like the TV show I guess) and Breckenridge.  Beautiful.  Intermittent
overheating problems, exacerbated by altitude which causes water to boil even
sooner.

1 July:  go offroad with Jim again, this time vic. Central City.  Jim suffers
flat tire.  Mrs. Merdle just overheats.  Encounter two vehicles slid off the
trail on pretty bad sideslopes.  Guy w/ Bronco and NO CLUE (later in day I
asked him if he had a snatch block and he said "a what?") winches them to
safety.  Jim and I lead the way for clueless Bronco man and another guy in a
mid-80s Land Cruiser through the darn deep snow drift that stymied the others.
Granted, we shoveled and towed and rammed our way through, but we made it.  I
was pretty skittish due to my recent flop over on a sideslope, but I guess
it's just good therapy to be terrified.

2 July:  No significant Rover activity.  Went to Boulder w/ the non-Rover
owner I was staying w/ and spotted a SIIA Bugeye 88" w/ California plates.
Very nice.  Anyone on the list own it?

3 July:  Did my stupid human trick again:  Drive 880 miles in a series vehicle
in one day.  Took only 15 hours this time because it was premeditated
stupidity and therefore far more efficient.

4 July:  400 or so miles back to Ohio and Grandma's cookin'.  Put US flag on
the snorkel of my British made vehicle to celebrate.

5 July:  Normal maintenance.

6 July:  500 miles to parents' house in NJ.  Never had to take her out of
overdrive across PA.  Noticed tendency for engine to hiccup, like not getting
gas when at low rpm w/ lots of wellie (like when getting back on the highway).

7 July:  Drive to Jeff Meyer's house in Queens (lots of tolls) to pick up
tailgate from him.   Had lunch w/ his parents and a nice visit, though Jeff
was off slaving over a hot laptop at the extreme end of LI, so I didn't get to
see him.  Decide to remedy hiccup.  New sparkplugs.  Can't find gapper tool.
Buy tool.  Take plugs back out and gap them.  New air and fuel filter.  Now
running on 3 cylinders.  Try to back into garage at dad's house.  Nasty, nasty
clacking sound suddenly eminates from engine.  Shut it down.  Replace all plug
wires (probably cause of 3-cylinder syndrome).  Dad starts her up while I peer
anxiously under the hood.  Noise cures itself.  Install new electric fan, much
to the relief of OVLR members who had to listen to my other one at the BDay
party.  Hope to cure overheating problem w/ this.

8 July:  Drive from NJ to Wash DC.  Spend time w/ my sister, friends from
college, DaveB and Spenny on the 9th.

10 July:  Drive to friend's house in Madison VA.  Engine still running pretty
hot on highway.

11 July:  Go off-roading w/ DaveB up some trail Charlie from RN assures him
goes to the top of some mountain.  Many hours w/ chainsaw, machete, and
muscles get us nowhere.  We go swimming and back to friend's house for dinner.

12 July:  Drive to Charlotte, NC, stopping for 1) a huge, huge wreck on 64,
and 2) to pick up a 109 soft top in Richmond from David.  Lot farther to
Charlotte than I thought.  Arrive at 1:30 a.m., unable to think.

13 July:  Leave Charlotte, drive to Columbus GA.  Lot farther than I though.
Arrive at 9:30 p.m. unable to think.

So that's it--6000 miles of joy.  

Good to be back amongst you all.

Somebody from SOLAROS give me a call, or e-mail me your phone number, seeing
as how AOL helpfully erased all my mail from before I left.

Bill Rice
Mrs. "wow it's hot down here" Merdle

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:21:42 EDT
Subject: 3 vs. 4 tube radiator

Hi everyone,
My 109 is running hot (200-210 degrees) on the highway when it's hot out and
I'm driving 60-65 mph (w/ o/d.)

I have a Pontiac 2.5l in there, so I'll keep my question general.

How much difference in cooling ability is there between the SIIA (4 tube, I've
been led to believe) and the newer SIII radiators?  I replaced my old SIIA
rad. (had to run 25% antifreeze, 25% water, 50% stop leak) w/ a nice new SIII
rad this spring and now she gets too hot.  On road isn't really bad, around
town is fine--around 180, but off road going up prolonged hills (like in CO
and VA) she just had to be shut down for about 5 min. once she got to 210 or
else she'd get too hot.  Would a 4 tube rad help this.  How 'bout an oil
cooler (easy to fit to the GM engine)?

Thanks for any input you all can give to my predicament.  Please be gentle
with the "if you weren't an apostate you wouldn't be in this fix" comments.

Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: ** 1989 RANGE ROVER FOR SALE **

>***1989 RANGE ROVER FOR SALE***
>White with Sorrell beige leather, excellent condition inside and out, never
>off road, new tires around, 103k miles, no leaks, brushbar, lamp guards, CD
>changer, rust free upper tailgate, sunroof. Email for photos. I'd like to
>sell this truck by months end.

and maybe you will if you let people know where you are....   I'm looking
for a used RR myself.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:54:12 -0400
Subject: Battery Advice

Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> wrote:

>So what does the combined wisdom of the list have to say about battery
>maintenance? Here's a thread which can run a few days eh?

>Whats the opinion/experience on the best way to bring a fair battery
>back to excellent - and to keep it that way?

The major cause of battery demise is "sulfation" a build-up of lead sulfide
"sponge" on the plates.  I've used this cadmium solution (*very* poisonous
stuff) called "VX-6" from JC Whitless, though I've seen similar stuff in
auto parts stores.  One day, my battery was flat dead.  Added the VX-6
(which, at the time I thought was snake oil) stuff and used the hand crank
to get to work.  10 min later and a half a block from work, I ran out of
gas in the middle of an intersection.  In that brief 10 min., the battery
built up enough power so I could use the starter to crawl me out of the
intersection.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:54:14 -0400
Subject: Gauges

"Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org> wrote:

>ANybody have any smith Oilpressure guages (mechanical)?  I really could
>use one.  I am also interested in good tachometer for rover.

>If anyone finds some good guages there, oil pressure, circular ampmeter,
>or tachometer, I would be interested.  Thanks

Get to the flea market of the nearest British auto show.  Bought a used
gauge at Bowie for $5 and the original Smith's fitting kit for $10.  Most
vendors will have dozens of used guages.  Touble is, I now need a 1/4" male
BST to 1/8" male BST union to hook it up...at *that* is unavailable on this
continent....

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:51:27 -0500
Subject: RE: Freelander and defenders to US

A BMW diesel?
I doubt that would be a minus.
My experince with with BMW diesels tells me that those are incredible
engines.
Incredibly agile, and very powerfull, but when it comes to self repairing...
better get a PhD for it.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

-----Mensaje original-----
De: John C. Hinkle <defender110@email.msn.com>
Para: lro@playground.sun.com <lro@playground.sun.com>
Fecha: Jueves 16 de Julio de 1998 08:04 PM
Asunto: Freelander and defenders to US

>If they bring defenders into the US in 2001, they won't look like they do
>now.
>They will have front and side airbags. Probably unibody construction and

the
>bumpers will be plastic and rounded, sort of like a Lexus. And a 300 Tdi
>engine, I doubt it - probably a BMW diesel.  Still want one?
>Chris Hinkle

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:56:58 -0400
Subject: RE: Breather alternative

Me thinks a calendar would be more accurate...

> including a VDO 2-1/16"Clock that would fit that blank third hole in
> the dash
> panel....hhmmmm........
> ...do I really wanna know how long it takes to get to Greek Peak, or
> how
> long my feet have been baking, in my SIII ? >>
> No, but you could use it to guage performance by measuring
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> acceleration... ;-)
> --pat.

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:43:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US/BMW diesel

Hey - for those of you that don't know, BMW is running a diesel-powered race
car, in the European Touring Car class VERY COMPETITEVELY!

They have been, for at least the last 2-3 years. Very impressive.

Charles

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:39:21 -0700
Subject: Re. Freelanders come to America

While the Freelander was designed from the outset to appeal to the North
American market (that's why there is, or will be, a V-6 engine option),
waiting another 2-3 years to introduce it doesn't seem to make a lot of
sense.  Land Rover timed the market very well, introducing the
Freelander at a time when buyers are much more interested in car-like
4wds instead of larger, truck-like 4wds.  Toyota RAV4s and the like are
selling very well in the UK, as is the Jeep Grand Cherokee which gets
consistently high marks for on-pavement handling.  Vehicles like the
Mercedes ML320, Honda CRV, etc., are becoming more popular by the day as
SUVs are being used for the same purposes as station wagons were in the
past.  Off-road capabilities are irrelevant to the majority of today's
SUV buyers, although I guess it's nice to brag about your new vehicle's
theoretical capabilities to your neighbor.  But the truth of the matter
is that a very tiny percentage of the 4wds sold today every leave the
pavement.

>From a marketing perspective, I would think the time to be putting the
Freelander in North American showrooms is now, not a couple of years
down the road.  Who knows what people will want then.  I personally have
no interest in the Freelander, although having seen a lot of them in the
UK during a vacation in May I was surprised to see they are considerably
larger and more roomy than photographs imply.  But I would think that
LRNA would be making every effort to get the vehicles in here NOW rather
than wait and take the chance that the market has become a) saturated
and b) moved on to something else.

LRNA should have been working with Land Rover from the outset to make
sure the Freelander met US specs from day one.  Then they would have
been in a position to take advantage of the vehicle's appeal at a time
when the demand was the highest.  Maybe things won't change that much in
a couple of years, but you never know...

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:03:09 -0700
Subject: Re: H4s(90/145)  vs Vision Plus (60/55)

I use H4's - 90/150s and I love them - of course, I have an earlier
breakfast with sealed beams in it.
(yes, that means I have 4 headlights)

Just some thoughts though - if you have a generator, you will run out of
battery power during the night!
Also - you will constantly be flashed and you will make no friends in anyone
you follow with those bright bulbs.

I run H4's in the wings (open highway and off road - or when I wish to melt
incoming traffic :-)
I run sealed beams - much more friendly - in the breakfast.
The best of both worlds

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.5 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA, Ingrid 38, ketch - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:25:40 EDT
Subject: Group of LR's??

<<BTW, What DOES one call a group of Rovers - a leak?>>

Actually, the AZLRO mail list has used something similar to this for a couple
of years.  We call our various groups puddles as follows:

"The thing which is AZLRO is a very decentralized, informal collection of
people who own and drive any kind of Land Rovers.  This is NOT a club and
does not hold meetings.  There are no dues and no officers.  AZLRO
currently has "Puddles" (if you've owned any kind Land Rover for a while
you know what a puddle is) in Tucson, the Phoenix area and Flagstaff. "

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:32:01 -0700
Subject: Defenders back to the US

Land Rover has been threatening to re-design the Defender for years.
The current version, which is simply an update of the old Series models,
is VERY expensive to produce.  I've visited the assembly line in
Solihull, and it's like watching people put together a bunch of Revell
models.  The body panels are actually attached to "sprues" for painting
and transportation within the factory, and the assembly process is very
labor-intensive.  At one point, Land Rover was seriously considering
ending Defender production once and for all, and using the Discovery as
a platform for utility bodies like pickups, crew-cabs, panel vans, etc.
I don't know what made them change their mind; perhaps the military had
a lot to do with it.  But reducing manufacturing costs will be a large
factor in the re-design process, and will likely lead to some "radical"
changes.

The little bit of information I've gotten from people I know in England
who are in the commercial vehicle trade indicates that a re-designed
Defender would be quite a bit different than the vehicle we know by that
name today.  While this is largely speculation, of course, people I know
who have reason in the course of their profession to talk to Land Rover
folks tell me that a re-designed Defender may likely have: frameless,
unibody construction of steel rather than aluminum; wide use of plastic
to reduce weight (grills, bumpers, interior components, etc.); a
car-like interior;  independent suspension heavier than but similar to
the Freelander's as this gives better handling and ride on roads;  a
narrow range of engine options to reduce manufacturing costs (possibly
the 5-cylinder "Storm" diesel and some sort of BMW-based petrol engine,
probably not the current Rover V-8 which will most likely be gone by
then).

The Defender's popularity as a farm/utility vehicle (except in the US
where it's marketed as a status toy) will probably influence the company
to maintain reasonably strong construction, good ground clearance, and a
chassis that can accept a variety of utility bodies.  The restrictions
on off-road driving are increasing every year, particularly in the UK
and western Europe, and customer interest in, and need for, heavy-duty,
off-road capabilities is decreasing.  Farmers in the UK use Land Rovers
more for their carrying and towing capabilities than for their 4wd
capabilities.  They aren't driving the rocks of Moab, they just need to
get out of the mud occasionally.  So my friends speculate that the
re-designed Defender's 4wd capabilities will be simplified, perhaps a
stronger and more capable version of the system that's in the
Freelander.  They're betting that the 2-speed transfer case will be a
thing of the past, although the Defender will still retain the ability
to crawl around in a slow and "torquey" mode.

But regardless of what Land Rover decides to do, there is one thing you
can bet on.  Whatever is sent to the US will be expensive as hell.  LRNA
has been brilliant in its marketing strategy starting with the Range
Rover in 1987, and they have pretty much trained US buyers to willingly
cough up big bucks for anything with the Land Rover badge on it.
Someone mentioned they may bring in the Defender 130 crew-cab, assuming
there still is such an animal in the lineup come then.  I'd be willing
to bet that it will cost at least $60K in 1998 dollars if they do.
Being as how you'll be able to buy an equivalent, full-size US pickup
for not much more than half that amount, Land Rovers will continue to be
recreational vehicles for the wealthy as opposed to a practical solution
for the tradesman who needs a working truck.  That's really too bad, for
as someone who's used a Land Rover as a working vehicle for years, I can
attest to the fact that they do a very, very good job.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed;  ]
From: "Ray Burton" <Ray_Burton@usairways.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:32:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Group of LR's??
Content-Disposition: inline

Gerry,

Will you be attending the grand event at Greek Peak near Courtland NY?
Hopefully you can get your Dormobile restored soon.

Ray Burton

                                                                  
 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   GElam30092@aol.com                                 
 to file:      07/17/98 01:25 PM                                  
 pic32629.pcx)                                                    
                                                                  

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Ray Burton/VEN/USAIR)
Subject:  Group of LR's??

<<BTW, What DOES one call a group of Rovers - a leak?>>
Actually, the AZLRO mail list has used something similar to this for a
couple
of years.  We call our various groups puddles as follows:

"The thing which is AZLRO is a very decentralized, informal collection of
people who own and drive any kind of Land Rovers.  This is NOT a club and
does not hold meetings.  There are no dues and no officers.  AZLRO
currently has "Puddles" (if you've owned any kind Land Rover for a while
you know what a puddle is) in Tucson, the Phoenix area and Flagstaff. "

Cheers,
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA
'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "Humpty Dumpty"  (currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

--0__=ufflRujIiPuZ8jtwZykWeMjnQaJ0d9VFMMBKOJD2CaxP9r0HFU8ggSgG

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:36:26 EDT
Subject: 110's in the US?

I just returned from a short vacation in Brazil and a business trip in
Monterrey Mexico.  Didn't spot any LR's in Mexico but saw 5 LR's in Brazil.
All were white 110's and every one was a diesel!  At the time I was thinking,
"it's not fair" but then, life never is.

I guess if I don't buy any more LR's between now and 2002(?), I might be able
to afford a new 110 if and when they hit the shores.

Nah.... it'll never have the classic styling and lines of my Dormobile.
Unless I convert it to a Dormobile.  Now there's a thought.

Speaking of which, it'll probably take me 'till then to get HD like I want it!
Yes, I anticipate asking a lot of stupid questions here starting in the next
couple o' months.  Too damn hot to work outside here now.  It has hit at least
115 degrees/ 46 degree Celsius for the last couple of days.  Dry heat my ass.
When it's that hot, the humidity means nothing!

The plan is to park it inside my little 2-car garage when it cools down a
little and start the project this fall.  Should be fun!

Later...
Gerry Elam
PHX  AZ  USA

'73 Series III "Tigger"  (daily driver until it hits 110 F / 43 C)
'64 Series IIA Dormobile "HD"  (Humpty Dumpty, currently in pieces)
'95 Disco "Great White"

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:43:23 EDT
Subject: Names?

<<  So now what do you call a Rover that doesn't leak and sits level?>>

Empty?  Out of oil?

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: William S Kowalski <70252.1204@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:29:46 -0400
Subject: Re:   3 vs. 4 tube radiator

Hi Bill: We met at the OVLA Birthday party and you were discussing your
"HOT" engine then. As I mentioned, you need a Land-Rover fan cowling
between the radiator and engine and normal engine driven fan blade
extending into the cowl, then throw out the electric fan and your problems
will go away like magic. 

Bill Kowalski
Chicago, Illinois

'67 L-R IIA 109" SW ( Doesn't run HOT)
'63 Austin-Healey "BJ-7" (Runs HOT in parades)
'53 RR Bentley "R" ( Doesn't run HOT in parades or at 80 mph and this puppy
is for sale)

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:22:42 EDT
Subject: Re:  RE: Freelander and defenders to US

In a message dated 7/17/98 10:58:33 AM, you wrote:

<<A BMW diesel?
I doubt that would be a minus.
My experince with with BMW diesels tells me that those are incredible
engines.
Incredibly agile, and very powerfull, but when it comes to self repairing...
better get a PhD for it.>>

So, why'd LR take it out of the RR in favor of the VM from italy? Apparently
it was a good diesel in cars, but didn't take well to the RR...

--pat.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:50:00 -0700
Subject: Solex Spindle Size

Does anybody know the exact size (diameter) of the throttle spindle on a
Solex?  

A shop just down the road from me will put bushings in my leaky Solex
but they only have a few sizes to work with...

Tx.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria, BC  Canada
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4954/

------------------------------

From: Brian Cramer <defender@uscom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:19:12 -0400
Subject: Re: ** 1989 RANGE ROVER FOR SALE **

Sorry about that Chief!

I'm located in Southern New Jersey, just East of Philadelphia.

Brian

At 10:38 AM 7/17/98 , you wrote:
>>***1989 RANGE ROVER FOR SALE***
>>White with Sorrell beige leather, excellent condition inside and out, never
>	[ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
>>changer, rust free upper tailgate, sunroof. Email for photos. I'd like to
>>sell this truck by months end.
>and maybe you will if you let people know where you are....   I'm looking
>for a used RR myself.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>Russ Wilson
>Leslie Bittner

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:32:28 -0400
Subject: Headlight disconnect

Charles: on a ser 2 and 2A  the headlight wires pass through the back of the
headlamp bowl, follow the wires to the underside of the bonnet ( hood
release mechanism, you will find that the wires are held in spring clips,
pull out the wires and you will then find the standard Lucas, bullet
connnectors. The ground wire is a bullet connector in a clip which is
screwewd to the underside of the panel. After this the healdight  wires can
be pulled out of the sides of the front panel permitting its removal.
 This assumes that the wiring was not modified by the PO  who changed the
headlights from bulbs to sealed beam units.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: Ian Harper/Donna-Claire McLeod <tantramar@golden.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:34:19 +0000
Subject: Weber correction jet

Weber Questions....

The PO had put a bolt in the top of the carb where the correction jet
goes, so it idled beautifully (with Full choke) but did little
else....stalled when I put the gas to her....  I took it out and put a
jet in, now it runs rrrrrich (with no choke)  lotsa smoke in the garage,
lost the back wall at one point!

Question is...what size jet goes in the correction tube?  I have a 240,
170 and a 160.

Pointers Welcome!!

Cheers, Ian

PS What is it's official function?, as it's not adjustable....is it like
the idler jet in a Zenith?
-- 
Ian Harper/Donna Claire McLeod
http://www.golden.net/~tantramar
Tantramar House Bed and Breakfast
Stratford, Ontario
Phone(519) 273-7771  Fax (519) 273-3993

------------------------------

From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:40:06 -0500
Subject: Name that switch/relay!

So the old engine is out! Out with the old and in with the Turner.
Yehah, we're having fun.  I ordered a replacement wiring harness and I
am going to put in a set of Hella's vision Plus headlights.

So what is the wiring relay/ switch which is directly above the starter
switch solenoid and directly below the fuse box?  It has three wires on
it connecting to two points.  It is attached to the firewall by a
bracket and appears to use to have some form of cable (old heater adjust
maybe?) underneath it but on the same bracket.

cwolfe

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:55:40 -0700
Subject: Carburation Principles - was - Weber correction jet

Ian had some questions about jets & carburation.

Here is another cut & past from
http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/tocdoc.asp

Start of Past: 
	VI. Carburetion

	A. Carburetion Theory for Better Troubleshooting 

	Big, small, simple or complex, all carburetors share the same
basic operating principles. If you make the effort to get a firm
	grasp of those principles, you'll be able to diagnose any
specimen you happen to encounter even if it's unfamiliar. 

	Essentials

	Knowledge of some simple physics is a necessary foundation. To
begin with, only gasoline vapor will burn, so fuel must change
	its state from a liquid to a gas at some point or the engine
won't run, and to do this it must absorb enough heat to boil. You may
	wonder how gasoline can boil when both the engine and the air
are cold. The answer is reduced pressure. Just as water boils at
	a lower temperature on a mountain top than it does at sea level
because there's less atmospheric pressure bearing down on it,
	so the vacuum in the carburetor's venturi and intake manifold
causes fuel vaporization to occur when very little heat is present.
	The boiling point is reduced so that the fine atomized droplets
that are sprayed into the intake stream vaporize from the latent
	heat in the air, no matter how little that might be. Of course,
until the engine has warmed itself up, only a small portion of the
	available gasoline actually turns to vapor, which makes a very
rich mixture as provided by the choke necessary. 

	Ratio

	Air/fuel ratio is expressed in terms of weight, so a 15:1 ratio
means 15 pounds of air to one pound of gasoline (by volume, that
	would be about 2,000 gallons of air to one gallon of fuel). The
ideal "stoichiometric" ratio in which exactly the right amount of
	air is present to burn the fuel is actually 14.7:1, but
maintaining such perfection requires the use of an oxygen or lambda (the
	Greek letter that has come to represent the ideal blend) sensor
and electronically-controlled feedback or closed loop mixture
	adjustment, a subject covered in other sections of this
encyclopedia. 

	Any ratio from about 8:1 to 18:1 will fire dependably. In the
former, there'll be more gasoline present than is needed, so all the
	air will be used up while much of the fuel will find nothing to
combine with (it will be pumped raw into the exhaust system). In
	the latter lean mixture, there's more air present than is
necessary to burn the fuel, so all the gasoline will be used up. It's
	important to realize that the actual reaction (the rapid
oxidation of the fuel) always occurs at the 14.7:1 ratio regardless of
the
	mixture that's actually supplied by the carburetor. 

	Venturi action

	Whenever air passes through a tube, a pressure drop occurs, and
this is the principle that moves fuel into the throat of a
	carburetor. But since the strength of the vacuum is directly
proportional to the speed of the air column, some kind of boost is
	needed at low rpm, and that's the reason for the venturi. By
placing a restriction in the throat, the air is forced to move faster
	and an extra pressure drop is created allowing atmospheric
pressure on the fuel in the bowl to push enough through the nozzle
	to permit the engine to run. Vaporization is also enhanced. 

	The above should help you understand the following explanations
of the six systems found in almost every carburetor. 

	Reservoir

	All the gasoline an engine uses makes an intermediate stop in
the bowl, which supplies the idle, cruising, and power circuits, and
	the accelerator pump. A needle-and-seat valve and float
arrangement keeps the bowl from over-filling when the engine is not
	using all the fuel the pump supplies. It may not seem that a bit
of plastic or a tiny metal pontoon would have the buoyancy
	necessary to shut down the pump's considerable pressure, but
it's affixed to a lever in such a way that it has plenty of
	mechanical advantage and can push the needle into its seat hard
enough to do the job easily. 

	At idle

	Since there's very little air passing through the venturi at
idle, not enough vacuum is generated to move the fuel through the
	cruising system, so the idle circuit has to take over. This
comprises a port below the throttle plate where there's plenty of
	vacuum, a passage from the bowl, and an adjustment screw. The
velocity of the incoming air is low with the throttle almost
	closed, so the passage to the port usually has air bleed or
emulsion holes in it to aid in atomizing the gasoline (it would be
	difficult to get a solid stream to vaporize). Some carburetors
have idle air jets so that the throttle plates can close completely,
	somewhat similar to the idle air bypass of a typical fuel
injection system. 

	Hot air is relatively thin, so when the temperature is very high
not enough air molecules are getting around the throttle plates at
	idle to make the proper blend. To eliminate the excessive
richness this would cause, some carburetors have a hot idle
	compensator, which is simply an air passage that bypasses the
throttle plates whenever a temperature-sensitive bimetal valve
	opens. 

	Other fuel passages are needed to provide a smooth transition
from idle to moderate rpm, and these are called transfer or
	off-idle ports or slots. They are positioned higher up in the
barrel than the idle port and are progressively uncovered and
	exposed to vacuum as the throttle plate opens. They generally
get fuel from the same tube as the idle port, but are not affected
	by the mixture screw. 

	Cruise and stomp

	The next circuit to come into action is the main cruising
system. This is a nozzle that sprays gasoline into the part of the
venturi
	or venturis where the highest vacuum is present. It gets its
supply of fuel in an amount controlled by the diameter of the main jet.
	This circuit works constantly at steady speeds and is calibrated
for good gasoline mileage. 

	Whenever the driver asks the engine to provide all the power
possible by pushing the accelerator pedal to the floor, thus
	opening the throttle plate all the way, too much air enters the
engine for the cruising circuit to handle. The mixture would lean
	out and output would be severely limited. So, the aptly-named
power circuit is activated. This can be either a separate fuel
	valve or a metering or step-up rod that normally blocks some of
the main jet's flow, but is pulled up out of the way by linkage
	or a spring when extra fuel is needed (the rod may be held down
against a spring by a vacuum piston, then rise when the
	vacuum drop that occurs at wide open throttle reduces the force
on the piston). 

	Lag eliminator

	The circuits mentioned so far would be sufficient if the engine
were only asked to run at a constant speed or to accelerate very
	gradually. That, however, is not the way cars are driven. The
throttle is often opened too rapidly for the above systems to be
	able to keep up. The sudden blast of air would cause the engine
to stumble or stall before enough fuel could be moved into the
	intake stream to provide a burnable mixture. 

	The accelerator pump is what adapts the carburetor to the
realities of the highway. It squirts an extra charge of gasoline into
the
	intake stream whenever the throttle is opened, and, since it
works mechanically, does so before the engine gets a chance to
	choke on too much plain air. It's an ordinary pump with one-way
inlet and outlet valves and an air bleed, weight, or spring
	set-up to eliminate the possibility of fuel escaping from its
nozzle because of vacuum. 

	Super rich

	Finally, there's the choke, a device that gets the engine
started even when it's too cold for the proper amount of gasoline to
	vaporize. By closing off the mouth of the carburetor so the
manifold vacuum present during cranking causes a great deal of fuel
	to flow out of the bowl into the throat, enough vapor is
available to allow the engine to fire. Once running, the powerplant
starts
	producing sufficient vacuum to act on the diaphragm or piston of
the choke pull-off mechanism, opening the choke enough to
	permit an adequate amount of air to enter the manifold for fast
idle and cruising operation. As the engine warms up, a calibrated
	coil of flat metal that's connected to the choke plate expands
from the heat of exhaust or coolant or an electrical element.
	Gradually, this expansion opens the choke until air flow is no
longer restricted. 
	End past.

	Paul Quin
	Victoria.

------------------------------

From: Russ Wilson <rwwilson@mho.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Weber correction jet

>Question is...what size jet goes in the correction tube?  I have a 240,
>170 and a 160.

Adjust for altitude... Ontario is at what 500 or so ft. above sea level??
Call any parts supplier..British Bulldog, Rovers North or whoever and ask
them for the correct jet..  then play with your plugs which are probably
screwed now, and then get your timing set.

good luck

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:29:48 EDT
Subject: Re:  Breather alternative

John, 
I wouldn't bother spending $10 on new breathers that aren't even raised.  Just
get 1/4" pipe fittings w/ the 1/8 NPT thread on the other end, some clear 1/4"
hose from Home Depot (or fuel line, which costs more and you can't see
contamination bubbling up in), and some 1/4 " in-line fuel filters and make
your own raised breathers for about the same cost.  No water will get in if
the end of the tube's not in the water.

Plus this allows the axle to suck air in when rapidly cooled (immersed in a
pond, for instance), which isn't a problem for most of Summit's customers, but
which is for us.  If the axle can't suck air in as it cools, it will develop a
vacuum inside and possibly suck water in through your hub or pinion seals.

So go w/ the raised breather.

bill rice

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:29:55 EDT
Subject: NAS Freelander

An Open Letter to:

Dr. Walter Hasselkus
Rover Group Chairman and Chief Executive
Solihull UK

Sehr Geehrte Herr Doktor Hasselkus:

Now that the needs of the broader North American public are to be met in
2001 with the Land Rover Freelander, when will you have a product to meet
the needs of the traditional Land Rover fanatics who have historically been
Land Rover customers in North America?

These are the loyal customers who bought Defenders, who liked and bought
the old series machines and who would today cheerfully buy these rugged and
utilitarian machines if only they were available in this market.  Especially
if they were available at reasonable prices.

My choice would be a double cab pickup with V8, 5 speed manual transmission
and without the absurd exterior roll cage.  Sadly these, along with the rest
of the Defenders, are not available here.  Must I dream forever, or will
Land Rover have something to offer?

Sincerely,

Paul Donohue
For 22 years a Land Rover owner.
Denver Colorado

CC: The LRO Digest

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:29:43 EDT
Subject: Re:  POR neophyte - again!

I just caught up to the 16th's e-mail.  I think you need to strip paint off,
then etch, then POR-15.  That's what I did on my Salisbury before slinging it
under Mrs. M. and it worked just fine--although I'll be able to tell you how
well it worked in a few years.  Actually I didn't strip the paint; there just
wasn't any on there.  But that acid etcher is really mild; caused no apparent
change in any surface I sprayed it on.

Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:30:10 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re:   3 vs. 4 tube radiator

Bill (Kowalski that is),
Thanks for answering my query.  I did get rid of the elec. fan that I had on
there during the BDay Party.  Put in another electric fan, but mounted behind
the rad, and w/ more than 2x the cfm rating of the earlier elec. fan., which I
suspect was acting more as a radiator muff on the highway than a fan.

This new fan pushes all kinds of air back at the engine, and my problems are
not at low speed (except off-road on long steep hills) or in traffic, as I
assume they would be if the problem were lack of a fan shroud.

She used to run hot w/ the old radiator, but nothing like this, although I
never pushed it this hard then either.

My question remains:  is the 3 tube radiator more efficient than the 4-tube,
and therefore needing fewer tubes, or did LR just decide that the 4-tube was
overkill and that a three tube design would suffice?

Anyone else experience temp. changes when switching from 4-3 tube or back?

Also folks, don't forget that I don't have a Rover engine.  Pontiac
2.5l--driving excitement until you overheat.

Thanks folks,
Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:52:14 -0500
Subject: RE: RE: Freelander and defenders to US

Could be.
As Charles said, BMW is even running on diesels on Grand Touring class
races. And they do very well, but it's a completely different task there.
At least they have the technology to do well. The real outcome, thats
another story. History will tell.

Lic. LUIS MANUEL GUTIERREZ CHACON
Jose Cartellone Construcciones Civiles S.A.
E-mail: lgutierr@jccr.co.cr
Tel: (506) 296 2743
Fax: (506) 296 2744

-----Mensaje original-----
De: SPYDERS@aol.com <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Para: lro@playground.sun.com <lro@playground.sun.com>
Fecha: Viernes 17 de Julio de 1998 02:37 PM
Asunto: Re: RE: Freelander and defenders to US

>In a message dated 7/17/98 10:58:33 AM, you wrote:
><<A BMW diesel?
>I doubt that would be a minus.
>My experince with with BMW diesels tells me that those are incredible
>engines.
>Incredibly agile, and very powerfull, but when it comes to self

repairing...
>better get a PhD for it.>>
>So, why'd LR take it out of the RR in favor of the VM from italy?
>I doubt that would be a minus.
Apparently
>it was a good diesel in cars, but didn't take well to the RR...
>--pat.
>I doubt that would be a minus.
>My experince with with BMW diesels tells me that those are incredible

------------------------------

From: Russ Burns <burns@ismi.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:06:42 -0400
Subject: Re: NAS Freelander

Dr. Walter Hasselkus,

I have to agree with Paul.
I have three Landrovers, 1991 Range Rover, 1994 Defender 90,
and a 1995 Defender 90 SW. As I am getting into the ranching business,
I am looking at getting another vehicle to pull trailers, and haul feed.
The best fit for me is a four door 1 ton diesel pickup. If Land Rover
were to offer such a vehicle, based on the over-design it was famous for
, instead of the "fuel efficent" (light weight) trucks available in the US,
I would make Land Rover my choice. I have no use for a $60K truck that
cannot be worked.

Russ Burns

At 07:29 PM 7/17/98 EDT, DONOHUEPE@aol.com wrote:
>An Open Letter to:
>Dr. Walter Hasselkus
>Rover Group Chairman and Chief Executive
>Solihull UK
>Sehr Geehrte Herr Doktor Hasselkus:

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 34 lines)]
>Denver Colorado
>CC: The LRO Digest

------------------------------

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:08:41 -0400
Subject: Re: A Cloud?? of Rovers.

How does a  "Slick of Rovers " sound.

Richard Marsden wrote:

> All this talk of springs....
> A Wallow of Rovers?
> Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com on 07/17/98 01:03:48 PM
> Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com
> To:   lro@playground.sun.com

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
> A Menace of Rovers, maybe.....8*)
>                     ajr

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:32:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Breather alternative

Just to add - no water will get in the filter, even if they are
underwater...... if you mount the hose to the carb side of the filter.

I run the rear remote breather behind the OD, on the front side of the
frame.

Bill, I followed this the last time you posted it and wanted to compliment
you on a great, simple, functional idea.

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.5 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA, Ingrid 38, ketch - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:51:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoisting the engine. Where to wrap chain or connect to engine?

Hi All,
 Well I am sure I should know this but I will ask for advise anyway.  I
am doing a frame over on a 109 regular.(Dad's Toy)  The new frame is
rolling & I want to lift the old engine & trans in to the new frame from
the old frame.  I have new mounts ready & now I wonder if I can or
should lift the engine & trans as a unit.    Any one done this?

Regards,
  Rob Davis_Chicago

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:48:56 -0700
Subject: LEAK

Hey, I like these divergent comments every so often.

It saves me from putting a Weber jetted, tuned Rochester carb on my LR. Does
not quite leave enough time to drain the oil and install grease in my hubs -
no time at all for lockers or V8 swaps.
Without these questions, I would place my shoes on backwards (brake shoes)
and wish I had a high performance, high MPG diesel for my LR.
What do you guys think of high speed piston return springs? Heard they might
help on the hill climbs :-)

I like "Leak of Land Rovers" best
the 5 - white 110's in Brazil would be a "Pod" however.

Cheers
David
Full-time father of a 3.5 year old
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA, Ingrid 38, ketch - our home
wahooadv@earthlink.net

------------------------------

From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:29:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Re. Freelanders come to America

Faure, Marin wrote:

> waiting another 2-3 years to introduce it doesn't seem to make a lot of
> sense.  (snip) From a marketing perspective, I would think the time to be
> putting the
> Freelander in North American showrooms is now

I agree with all you wrote but I think there's another perspective:Profit.

Land Rover doesn't make that much money on the US market.  Once you take
the warranty costs into account (reputedly the highest of any market), LR's
margin
in the US is just that... marginal.  So I suspect there's minimal pressure
on LR to
send a new vehicle to the US  (not something they've ever really done).
Imagine
the problems (reputation and financial) they'd have if ramping up Freelander

production led to the problems they had with the early NAS Discoveries.  I
suspect they've had some time to asess Freelander quality and are now
willing to commit to
the NAS market.  This isn't too surprising as there were a number of people
guessing
that this kind of time frame would be when it would come to the US.

I'm not terribly interested in the Freelander myself either, although I
agree that it
seems like LR is missing the peak of the US market.

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:39:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Freelander and defenders to US

I doubt very much, that Defender would be drastically changed from what it is
now, simply because of military contracts: to completely change their design
just for one market (not to mention, the risk of not doing very well), and
possibly lose military contracts, could be disasterous!

The only real fear, is price. LRNA knows all too well, that anything they
bring into the U.S. market, will sell - it's just a matter of what WE are
willing to pay. Warranties aren't so much of a problem to them, as are import
tarriffs (which nearly double the selling prices from the outset) It's bad
enough, they have to convert their U.K. selling prices into dollars (approx
1.65 times the U.K. selling price), but tarriffs can jack up the price that
much more = used NAS D-110's for $40k plus (not so much because of the
collectability factor)...I like D-110's very much, but I'm NOT paying that
much for a used one! (and as I have refused to pay 5 figures on the list for a
used RR, I got one for $8500) And I would NEVER (unless I hit the lottery -
big time) pay more than $25 - 35k for a 130 Tdi no matter how badly I wanted
one - IT IS NOT A RANGE ROVER!

This is the problem they face, and not being forced by U.S. regs, to install
side-mounted air bags, though the cost of doing that has stalled them. Add to
that, the past history of BL, and their rep for selling junk in this market,
and they can understandably be nervous. They have no fear of competition,
because they know that they have a following here (it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure this out, when their dealers are beginning to service
Series trucks again, and half the perspective customers are asking "Can we see
the model that has the tire sitting on the hood?"!), and they have had record
sales here.

Here in Los Angeles, I CANNOT go a single day, without seeing AT LEAST a dozen
Discos, 5-10 Range Rovers, and 4-8 D-90's...it's just like the heyday of the
Brit car invasion all over again! (and I live in a middle-class neighborhood)
This, after just 4 years ago, when I could go a week, and the only MGB I'd
see, was the one I was driving!

But, they have to decide wether or not to commit to this market, and it
appears they're going to give it the college try, and it's about bloody time!
You gotta take your hats off to them for that.

Charles
P.S. Now...if only we could get Renault to import the Clio Williams, and
Peugeot to sneak in a few 205 T16's...
Naw...how 'bout a MG 6R4...

------------------------------

From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 01:36:30 -0500
Subject: Nissan LD28 diesels and other HP diesels in the states

So my engine is out and I am getting ready to buy a turner.  Got to top
off the penny jar and finish rewiring and doing chassis maintanence.  

I read all those folks  form across the ocean and below the equator who
have replaced there 2.25 with high performance diesels.  I wish I had
the opportunity to check some out.

Are there good diesel replacements that are easy to fit available in the
states?
What is this 5 bearing 2.5 diesel I hear about?
Is the increased torque and hp and fuel efficiency worth the noise?  Can
you tolerate the dBs for eight hours of cruising at 60 - 65 mph?

Is the Nissan availabe in the states and is it a good replacement?

I am leaning toward the turner petrol because:
 it is a rover, it will bolt right in and it will be relatively quiet.
However, I would like to hear the arguments for the use of a good diesel
engine in a series vehicle here in the states,

cwolfe

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:46:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Nissan LD28 diesels and other HP diesels in the states

My .02 cents worth:

I took my 109 diesel on a 2000-mile trip around Nevada last September, and the
worst noise I got, was from my tires!

To me, it's only noisier at idle: at speed, it sounds pretty much the same as
a 2.25 petrol.

Charles

------------------------------

From: Tony Chapman <Tony@archap.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:58:58 +0100
Subject: Re: New steering relay moves in the cross member

In message <bulk.13044.19980713144031@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, David Hope
<davidjhope@email.msn.com> writes
>I recently checked over my steering components and noticed that there is
>some play in the bottom of the steering relay.  When I moved the wheels I
>can see the base of the relay move from side to side.
>The relay came from British Pacific and is fitted to an after market front
>frame piece which came from DAP.  I suppose that the hole in the relacement
>frame piece is simply too large in diameter.  Does anyone have ideas about
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
>David Hope
>64 llA

I have the same problem.  My relay is a genuine LR product and is fitted
to a new Marsland galvanised chassis.  I tighten the bolts up every so
often but over time the relay works loose.  I'd be interested in any
ideas on how to cure this.
-- 
Tony Chapman

------------------------------

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