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From: Kathleen Hollington <kholling@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:55:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Engine mount source?

I unfortunately stripped the threads on on of the bolts on a brand new
engine mount for my IIa.  I moved it to the gearbox mount but I figure
I'll have to change it (unless I can put a die on it and get some
decent threads back on).  Are there commonly available north american
substitutes for these mounts, or are they specific to LR's?  Thanks.
-- 
Robert St-Louis -- OTTAWA/CANADA -- '68 IIA SWB LR -- 
  kholling@nrn1.nrcan.gc.ca.NOSPAM (remove NOSPAM when replying)

------------------------------

From: Kathleen Hollington <kholling@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:59:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Any OVLR member with new wiring?

I have a brand new wiring harness from British Pacific that I wish
to install in my IIa (not much original wiring of  any kind left in it),
but I'm having a hard time figuring out what the different lenghts
of wiring are, where to run what chunk through what hole, where to
plug in the different connectors, etc.  I have the schematics, some
tip sheets from LR web sites, etc, but I'd like to see a LR which
has had such a rewiring job, to give me ideas on getting started.
Would any OVLR member in the Ottawa area have such a vehicle that
I could take a look at sometime?  Much appreciated,
	--Robert
-- 
Robert St-Louis -- OTTAWA/CANADA -- '68 IIA SWB LR -- 
  kholling@nrn1.nrcan.gc.ca.NOSPAM (remove NOSPAM when replying)

------------------------------

From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:44:35 -0400
Subject: unsubscribe

Unsubscribe lro-digest

Cheers All, off to Billings tomorrow, with WCRC & R.O.V.E.R.S

Peter Goundry
67 GS109" IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127 

------------------------------

From: TBache9248@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:42:23 EDT
Subject: No Subject

 

------------------------------

From: Axel Pawlik <axelpawlik@tinet.ie>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:19:29 +0100
Subject: Re: Fitting Seatbelts

Adrian,

>Easy to fit in a 109, where the inertia unit will fit between inside of
>door post and tub bulkhead - but in an 88 the bulkhead sits 2½ inches
>forward relative to a 109.
>So where do I mount the inertia unit? How about on the other side of the
>tub galvanised cross profile?

I have fitted my new ones where the old ones (worn out) were,
on "this side", forward, on the bulkhead. It sits just besides
the backrest, the "flow" of the belt from inertia spool to
shoulder bracket is not restrained. 

Seems to work fine. Only thing that's missing is the height adjustment :-)

	Axel

------------------------------

From: TBache9248@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:49:55 EDT
Subject: Alignment

hi All,
There is a very good reason to get your Rover pro-aligned.  It is often called
dogleg steering, crabbing, etc.  "Set the toe and let 'er go" was long a
motto, but not very good for back tires.  You should get a 4 wheel alignment
to established that both ends of the Rover are going in the same direction.
Broken center bolts, springs, loose u-bolts all will allow the rear to track
off-center.  Not neccessary every year, but a good alignment on occasion will
help spot troubles ahead and preserve expensive off-road tires.
About the head with the broken bolt holes, if yours is an early S11 engine, I
just may have a solid head that needs refurbishment for the cost of UPS, I
also have a early short block that is going to the scrapper soon unless it is
claimed and retrieved by the end of the month.  Cleaning house.

Tom Bache
Avondale, PA

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:42:00 -0400
Subject: More Whitworth -and springs and innuendo

Reading a book about Gettyburg, I found out that the armies of the South
used some Whitworth rifles. So this is the real reason they lost!
(The Union troops had minie balls!!!!!)

LR content. My new parabolics [ ;-) arrive tomorrow, any tips on
installation?

------------------------------

From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 98 06:51:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Broken Thermostat Housing--Do I Need a New Cylinder Head?

>Tonight's work on the frame-off of my '60 SWB Petrol included removing the
;>outlet pipe from the cylinder head.  I discovered that the front of the
;>cylinder head, where the third threaded hole is, was broken off some 
time in
;>the past twenty years or more since the vehicle was running.  There is
;>slightly more than 50% of the threaded hole remaining, what with the 
front
;>half of the alloy surrounding the threaded hole missing.

That sounds like an interesting story of a neophyte doing engine removal 
and replacement.

<SNIP>

;> Should I just
:>get another cylinder head and consider it well spent "peace of mind" 
money?
:>Anybody have a fix they can recommend?

Keith
I would say check the head over VERY carefully for cracks & if it is 
crack free keep using it.  You have the pressure of the coolant trying to 
push the parts off the block.  Two bolts and two gaskets with a liberal 
coating RTV should more than be up to holding back 7 or 9 pounds of 
pressure.  It has worked for you so far hasn't it??  Just don't over 
tighten the two remaining bolts.  Cast iron is soft and threads are 
easily stripped.  Then you will have to drill the holes out to the next 
size course thread and tap them.

EXTRA CREDIT 
When you shave the head you will likely find interference between the 
back of the water pump housing and the front underside of the head.  
Check the clearance without the head gasket.  A piece of light card board 
slid under the front of the head is what I use.  If you do not have 
clearance, get a die grinder and cut some metal off the back of the water 
pump housing (You may want to drop a different head on the block one of 
these days).

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

------------------------------

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:53:30 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: front end alignment q's

On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

> There's only one alignment to set on a Rover - toe-in. This can be done

Or toe-out, for the permanent 4WD crowd. The toe-in for the
series Rovers is 1,2-2,4 mm (at least on SIII) measured at the horizontal
centre-lin of the road wheels. I _think_ the same value applies for
toe-out on the permanent 4WD vehicles.

> with a tape measure, story stick, trammel points or any one of a dozen
> different ways in your driveway.

Easiest way is to have two pipes, one slightly thinner that fits inside
the other one. Makes it (relatively) easy to find the difference. 

Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:49:21 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Brake test lamp circuit

On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Adrian Redmond wrote:

> An interesting explanation Terje! But the differential valve switch is
> nylon, though there is a metal ball at the bottom which marries with the

Interesting enough to be found on page 70-1 of the SIII Repair Operations
Manual, Edition 4, part. no AKM3648

Here's an exact copy:
----------

--X----+   +---+   +---+   +----+
 3d    |_._|   |_._|   |_._|    |
        / 3a    / 3b    / 3c    |
         |       |       |      |
        gnd     gnd     gnd     |
                                |
  gnd --o \o--------------------+
         3d

Description:

3. The warning light is in series circuit with one or more of the following
   warning indicator switches to provide a visual indication of brake lining
   wear, hydrauliv fluid leakage or servo vacuum loss, depending on the
   particular equipment provided on the vehicle:-
   a  A servo mounted vacuum switch which indicates lack of vacuum
      assistance at the brake servo.
   b  A pedal-box mounted pedal travel switch to give an indication of excess
      pedal travel caused by brake shoe wear or minor hydraulic leakage.
   c  A chassis mounted pressure differential switch which indicates fluid
      leakage in the front or the rear brake hydraulic systems.
   d  A dash mounted test switch which is push button operated. Failure
      of the bulb to illuminate on being tested could indicate a faulty
      bulb or earth connection.
--------

> valve plunger - which itself "floats" in brake fluid - and the ball has
> contact with the plunger all the time. So how does this switch make
> contact to earth? This switch must be a normal switch, which makes
> contact between both wires.

No, it must not. If you consider the drawing of the valve on page 70-5,
in section 70.15.41, BRAKE FAILURE SWITCH, Dual systems, overhaul,
or even better, disassemble one, you'll find that the innermost part
of the switch is indeed metal, and thus, it is grounded through the
valve. The plunger runs through this metal part, and is grounded from
it. If the (grounded) plunger is pushed into the switch, it makes
contact with the dual connectors in the plastic part of the switch
and grounds them. The plastic is there to make sure the connectors
are not grounded all the time.

Duh. I can't believe I actually typed the above description. I must
have too much time on my hands today. And of course, I had the
manual handy :-)

Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol - thoroughly dissected and put back together

------------------------------

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:55:49 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Broken Thermostat Housing--Do I Need a New Cylinder Head?

On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Keith Cutler Family wrote:

> I'd planned on reconditioning the cylinder head with new valve seats, a
> shave to provide 8:1 compression, etc., but I'd hate to do that work if the
> outlet pipe won't seal properly with 2 1/2 bolts worth of torque.  I don't

If only one bolt cannot be fitted, you may be able to get a good seal
using two bolts and a generous amount of silicone on the joint surfaces.
At least it has worked on my cylinder head for a year and a half now.
Not exactly the recommended solution, but...

Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

From: Lodelane@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:15:49 EDT
Subject: Re: More Whitworth -and springs and innuendo

Much like "Puckell's Revenge", an early forerunner of the machine gun,
developed by another Englishman.  Had interchangable barrels.  One barrel shot
round balls to kill Christians and another cross shaped shot for infidels and
heathens.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

From: "BROWN DAVID E (DAVE)" <debrown@srp.gov>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:44:38 -0700 
Subject: My experiences with BP

Since everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon regarding BP, I
thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...  They have not only been some of the
least expensive, but have probably the BEST customer service around
ANYWHERE!  I've had to have things shipped overnight, and they've done
it happily.  I've had to return parts, and they've done that happily.

The latest item I priced with BP was a Mean Green high torque starter
for my RR.  I priced all the usual places, and found one that was $25
less than the next lowest price.  Still pays to shop around...  I think
it was ECR that had the best price this time, it was on their www page
as an Internet special.  (Thanks to a tip from another list member!)  

I have had both good and not so good experiences with ordering
overseas... 1st time was for around $2500 worth of miscellaneous "junk"
for the various LR's, and it went perfectly!  A small sum to customs, a
small sum to the shipper (United airlines, I think) for paperwork (under
$20) and that was it!!!  My next overseas purchase was for a 4.6 short
block, cam, and gaskets, and it also went well, but in addition to the
usual customs fee, I had to pay $40 or so to a brokerage house.  My most
recent overseas purchase was for 2 axles (half shafts), some "lifting
rings" clutch master and slave cylinder rebuild kits, brake adjuster cam
repair kit, high output H4 bulbs, and a bonnet prop, (possibly a few
more things, but not that much more).  Not that large of an order, but I
had to par over $100 to the importer broker.  This pretty much wiped out
any savings that I may have gained by ordering direct from the UK.  I'd
say, for large orders (get together in groups for one LARGE shipment)
it's good to order from the UK.  Otherwise, BP is usually the best price
and always the best service!  (And they have an "800" number!)

Thanks for "listening" to my drivel...  Dave Brown

P.S. the "lifting rings" that I received were not the "D-ring" thing
that mounts to the front bumper that I had expected... they were TINY
little brackets with a hole in them that I presume attaches to the REAR
bumper for lifting.  No wonder they were such a great price!!  Ah! You
get what you pay for... but then, why pay more than you have to for the
SAME thing???

------------------------------

From: "Luis Manuel Gutierrez" <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:37:13 -0500
Subject: Brand New Range Rovers

One of this days, as I was coming to the office (I wont say "to work") I
decided to begin counting all the 1998 brand new Range Rovers I could find
on my way. Its simply amazing. I was able to see 1.2 million dollars worth
of rovers rolling around just on my way to the office. (This means 12
trucks, since they are worth something around 100.000 US$ with tax
included).
Is this number too high?
I wish I had the money.

------------------------------

From: Marc-Andre Leger <ma2@wefa.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:50:43 -0400 
Subject: RE: Brand New Range Rovers

Now try counting Defenders...

A D90 owner...

             / ,            |                        |
        /\  \|/  /\         | Marc-Andre Leger       |
        |\\_;=._//|         | Network Eng.           |
         \."   "./          | WEFA inc.              |
         //^\ /^\\          | 800 Baldwin Tower      |
  .'``",/ |0| |0| \,"``'.   | Eddystone Pennsylvania |
 /   ,  `'\.---./'`  ,   \  | USA                    |
/`  /`\,."(     )".,/`\  `\ | 19022                  |
/`     ( '.'-.-'.' )     `\ | (610) 490-2763         |
/"`     "._  :  _."     `"\ | mailto:ma@wefa.com     |
 `/.'`"=.,_``=``_,.="`'.\`  | http://www.wefa.com    |
           )   (            | http://www.leger.qc.ca |
 My roomate Tigger (the cat)|________________________|

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never
 tried anything new."  Albert Einstein 

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:49:52 +0000
Subject: Re: More Whitworth -and springs and innuendo

>Much like "Puckell's Revenge",
Sounds like a hardware version of Montezuma's Revenge..

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:18:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers

How about counting Discos that MEN are driving. 

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 11:22:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers 

In message <bulk.9793.19980709091911@Land-Rover.Team.Net>you write:

> How about counting Discos that MEN are driving. 

	And your point is?  I drove mine today.

	About 50% men, 50% women whenever I spot them in CA and in NJ.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:49:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers /  M:F ratio

In a message dated 7/9/98 12:21:32 PM, you wrote:

>How about counting Discos that MEN are driving. 

Flamethrowers, ignite...  ;-)

We've seen a similar thread in the past, here's my useless .02:

Here on Miami Beach, where the LR has a firm foothold as a toy/status thing
(like Colorado ;-)  ), on my daily walk from house to garage, I see on the
street 2 D90s, 1 D90 SW, 1 RR (old body) & 1 4.6 HSE; that's before I start
driving. Help, I'm surrounded... seriously, there are too many to even begin
taking an interest in counting after I start driving around. All I have to do
if I want to see 2 Discos and 3 RRs parked in a row is drive by the snooty
deli or the fancy gym... I feel quite inconspicuous in the 110.

I'd say the M:F  ratio here on the beach is

Defenders      5:1 (only seen 2 girls with them, and only one has my number
:-(  )
Discos           1:1
RRs                2:3

With child seats:

Defenders       0%
Discos         20-30%
RRs                 10%

Now I pretty much look at every LR I see, whether parked or driving, and
although not scientific, I'm pretty sure I'm not too far off for this
community.

--pat.

------------------------------

From: "Blair Gillespie" <blairg@fix.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:43:54 -0700
Subject: LR Fraud - revisited

List Members,
    After wading through some 2000 + messages that have piled up after the
last couple of months I found this topic of some interest.
    I guess people are pretty fearless when sitting behind their computers.
Writing things that if gone unnoticed will never be contested or refuted
when not true. Doing business over the internet as well as doing it from
opposite coasts does not make for an easy deal.
    It is true that I bought parts from Alex. We talked on the phone about
the parts he had and what I wanted. I wanted the left wing, rear turn
signals, and the plastic grill.
    The original part we talked about was the left wing. He said he wanted
$150 for it. I thought it was a fair price and agreed sight unseen. I then
called back later and added the plastic grill (SIII) and the rear turn
signals for additional $55 . After  a couple of days I sent the check of
$150. I forgot that I had called back and asked for the additional parts.It
also so happened that I addressed the envelope incorrectly and was returned
back to me. I then sent it out again and was cashed by Alex. He then called
and said that the check was for $150  and not for the total amount we had
discussed.
    During this time I received the package from Alex. I sent him an email
stating that I had received it and that the turn signals where broken during
shipping. I still intended on paying the complete amount because of the fair
price and he paid to ship the parts to me. I have a copy of the email I sent
him with the time and date.
    After returning from vacation and some work related training we had a
bunch of messages from him stating he wanted his money. Up until that point
I thought he had been paid and sent an email that I thought it had been sent
out and if it had not been I was going to send it. That was Sunday. On
Monday I called my bank to see if it had cleared and it had not. I then sent
a check . I called today to see if that check number had cleared and it did.
    During the last 11 years if owning Land Rovers I have bought, sold,
traded, and given parts to people. Sometimes people have said that they were
going to pay and have not, but for the most part things have gone well. I
have also learned it is that the easiest way to send things is COD.
    So to make a short story long ,there was no LR FRAUD  Alex got  his
money I got my parts and life goes on.

Rover On,
Blair

------------------------------

From: not_rrose@caltech.edu (Randy Rose)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:49:03 GMT
Subject: Re: 109 11" IIA brake ?'s  Springs and adjusters- More?s

On Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:30:27 -0500, in mlist.lro you wrote:

>I am trying to figure out how to put this brakes back together.

Let me know if you still need help, as I am responding 2 days later.
All spring should go on the inside, backing plate side of the shoes.
I can pull out a set of used shoes and see if I can tell where the
springs went.  I can't tell you whick shoe is leading or trailing, as
I have Series II type brakes with the adjuster at the bottom center.
Shoe placement does make a difference for backing plates with front
and read shoe adjusters.

Randy

If you E-mail me directly, remove the "not_" from the address

------------------------------

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:52:53
Subject: water pump

>Just curious, on the old SIII water pump, the fan hub is a square thing with
>threaded bolt holes at the corners.  In the rebuild kit, the hub is a disc
>shaped piece instead.  Bolt holes line up so it shouldn't be a problem
putting
>the fan on but I'm curious if SIII's (and late SIIa) originally had a square
>fan hub.  (My SII is a disc shaped hub but the pump housing is different
and I
>suspect things could have changed).
>Nate
>shaped piece instead.  Bolt holes line up so it shouldn't be a problem

My 1966 SIIa has the original water pump stuff in a box and it's square.
The replacement kits that I have gotton over the years are also square.
Hope  this helps.

Jim Wolf

------------------------------

From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:05:08
Subject: Re: Horsepower

	I was messing around in
http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Engines/index.html#V8
and found some interesting facts on horspower ratings for various rover 4
cylinder engines.  
	The 8 to 1 cr 2.25 has 81 horsepower while the 5 main engine which I
thought was the same except for the bottom end only has 74 hp.  Why would
this be the case.  Since I have 5 main bearing engine scheduled to go into
my 109, I was hoping to have equal or greater horsepower than the 3 main
engine it is replacing.  What gives?
	The 2.5 gas engine claims 83 bhp while the N/A Diesel is 85 bhp.  
Strange
that a diesel would have more horsepower than a gas engine especially since
the diesel is not turbo charged.
	Anybody have any ideas why there are these seeming discrepancies on
horspower outputs of the various engines.
Aloha Peter
	

------------------------------

From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Horsepower

RE Horsepower;

        There are many ways to rate horsepower. The old 81hp figure was SAE
Gross, which was a very generous interpretation. The later engines are
rated to a more realistic SAE or DIN net. The 81 hp engine developes 65hp
in a net rating scenario. The US switched over to SAE Net in '72 (look at
'71 figures and then '72 and you will see a 15-25% drop at the stroke of a
pen. Same engines - different tests.

        Jim Allen

>        I was messing around in
>http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Engines/index.html#V8
>and found some interesting facts on horspower ratings for various rover 4
>cylinder engines.
>        The 8 to 1 cr 2.25 has 81 horsepower while the 5 main engine which I
>thought was the same except for the bottom end only has 74 hp.  Why would
>this be the case.  Since I have 5 main bearing engine scheduled to go into
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>horspower outputs of the various engines.
>Aloha Peter

------------------------------

From: Ian Vowles <Ian@modricusa.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:28:59 -0600
Subject: Re: Original Paint Colors and Parabolic Springs

Keith,

Can you give me any details on how to contact Frank Jakos - I need to sort out 
all new springs / shocks / and wheels for my 66 SWB .

I am in Pagosa Springs Colorado about 4 hours from Co Springs.

Many thanks

Ian Vowles

At 10:06 AM 6/29/98 -0400, you wrote:

> ---- you wrote: 

> ---- you wrote: 

>> My second question regards springs.  My old ones are shot.  Should I put on

>> new LR 88" springs or non-original parabolics? 

>> new LR 88" springs or non-original parabolics? 

>I just returned from the Solihull Society Rally and had my first ride in a 
rover with Parabolic springs.  I was very impressed with the ride on the 
pavement and the off-road action.  The $ difference between parabolics and 
"regular" springs isn't a 
factor here in Colorado because shipping of "regular" springs will kill you and 
you can drive to Colorado Springs and buy your parabolics from Frank Jakos.  
Hope this helps.

>I just returned from the Solihull Society Rally and had my first ride in a 
rover with Parabolic springs.  I was very impressed with the ride on the 
pavement and the off-road action.  The $ difference between parabolics and 
"regular" springs isn't a 

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Russ W. and the Pig

>Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com

>Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com

>Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com

Ian Vowles, Modric<bold> </bold>Inc.

National Headquarters, 86b Ranch Place,

Pagosa Springs, Colorado 81147 , USA.

Tel 970-731-4062 (1-800-739-0202) Email : Ian@modricusa.com 

Fax 970-731-4064 (1-800-813-2128) Email copy : Ian@modric.net

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:35:21 EDT
Subject: Learning to drive in a LR

Just came across this page. It is a story about a guy going offroad in Moab
with Bill Burke & his tricked out D90

http://www.4x4now.com/bd0198.htm

--pat.

(MOAB=Must Order Another Bumper)

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:15:27 EDT
Subject: Hammer Rivets (?)

What are hammer rivets?

How do they differ from normal (pop) rivets?

Where on the body (the LR's body) are they used?

I bought genuine bodycappings from LR, and on the same page of the parts book
that the cappings were on, they listed rivets (an appropriate number below
each steel part); so I went ahead and ordered the rivets, plus a few for
extra.

I get an e-mail from a former list member asking me if the person doing the
replacement of the bodycappings is familiar with Hammer Rivets. I don't know,
because the rivets I got from LR (Genuine LR Rivets, no less) look a hell of a
lot like pop-rivets.

Slightly lost here on my quest to replace body cappings.

--pat.

------------------------------

From: "Jonathan Lee" <jonathan_lee@hrcc.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 98 11:37:28 EST
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers

     Actually, very few people buy RRs.  Nearly all of them are leased.  
     What you saw represent about $12K a month in lease costs, not all that 
     much when you think about it. 

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:53:43 -0400
Subject: Injectors

The nozzle valve must open at 135 atmospheres.when the proper spray pattern
must be observed.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 22:53:41 -0400
Subject: 6 cylinder

Paul writes :- It remains a mystery why Land Rover did not produce a six
cylinder version
of the 2.286 four instead of destroking their much older, F head, 3 liter.
They would then have had a decent 3.5 six which was just what the North
American market needed.

 The 2.6 ( which is a 6 cyl based on the 1600 cc 4 cylinder ) was designed
several years before the 3 litre which was based on the 2 litre 4 cylinder
which preceded the 2.25 by a few years.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:55:07 EDT
Subject: Re: LR Fraud - revisited

As I mentioned in an earlier post to this list, Blair is correct, I eventually
received the check on July 20th. It was for the correct amount and it did
clear.
Since it took over 90 days for me to receive it, I had accepted the fact that
it was probably a lost cause and I would never receive my money, as many
people would have under the circumstances when their phone calls were not
returned.

My post to the list had nothing to do with being "bold" behind the faceless
internet, it was a heads-up to the list, not unlike ones that have saved me
from making bad decisions in the past. I meant well. I think those who have
known me as an active part of this list for the past 3 years would agree.

I appologize to Blair once again for any remarks made construed as offensive
and wish him the best.

Sincerely,
Alex Maiolo
Hillsborough NC

------------------------------

From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:15:34 -0700
Subject: Steamboat Rally & Bill Rice

I have just finished adding some Steamboat Rally Pics and also a few of
Bill Rice and I off road (for you OVLR people) to my web page. The
address is:  http://www.users.uswest.net/~jimfoo

Jim Hall
1966 IIA 88"

------------------------------

From: MARCINKO3@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:35:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers

Sorry Ben, I have had two 96 Discos and two 97 Discos includeing an XD that
was used in the Eco Challenge. I am a heavy off roader and these cars still
stunn me with what they can do. However here in NC it seems that the ratiao of
men to women Disco drivers is weighted to the other side. Didn't mean to step
on any toes. 

Rover on...

Steve 
Armada Off-Road LLC 

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:39:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hammer Rivets (?)

On Thu, 9 Jul 1998 SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:

> What are hammer rivets?

They are rivets which are deformed using a hammer and special die, instead
of poping them in.  I think they are sometimes called tinner's rivets. 

> Where on the body (the LR's body) are they used?

On Series rovers, all over the place.  Almost all the rivets on my IIA
are tinners, the others are replacements.  I don't know if there are any
on that plushmobile of yours.  Pop rivets are cheaper and much easier to
install. 

David

------------------------------

From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:10:05 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Brand New Range Rovers

On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Luis Manuel Gutierrez wrote:

> trucks, since they are worth something around 100.000 US$ with tax

If it's any comfort, a 4.6 HSE will set you back almost twice that amount
here in Norway :-) Definitely including taxes...

Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

From: Oliver_Gottlob@t-online.de (Oliver Gottlob)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:29:53 +0100
Subject: Diesel Injectors

Hello Martin, hello all,

As far as I know the Pressure is 135 Bar (Sorry I´dont know this in
PSI). But I think more importent is the spray pattern from the
injectors. 

There must be a fine spray no drops coming from the injector. There are
a small auxiliary and the main spray beam.

bye

Oli

DG5DBV
1976 Landrover 109 Diesel (2,25l) "everyday transport" slow & smokey
hpage: http://www.qsl.net/dg5dbv   mailto:dg5dbv@qsl.net

------------------------------

From: "Saunders.Richard" <Richard.Saunders@haltoncollege.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:49:22 +0100
Subject: RE: Hammer Rivets (?)

Ar But Ar but Ar etc

The Landrover pop rivets are very special as the blind end is capped off.
This stops water entering down the stalk hole and thus entering the inside
of the body of your LR and also stops the stub end of the stalk from
dropping out and making mess etc.

Hammer rivets require a set of rivet snap, these are used to form the head
shape and require skill to make a neat job, that is why most people use pop
rivets.

Richard Saunders
UK

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:58:19 +0000
Subject: RE: Hammer Rivets (?)

>Hammer rivets require a set of rivet snap, these are used to form the head
>shape and require skill to make a neat job,

The rivets referred to are available in snap head & countersunk form,
and in iron,aluminium,copper and brass (although these days,regrettably
not *easily* available).Those used on the Land Rover are snapheads,the
advantage of this type of rivet being that it can be removed with a
cold chisel,by means of chiselling the round head off,and punching
the rivet body out of the hole.A countersunk has to be drilled out.
As used on the Rover,the head is *outside*,and is held in place by the
snap,or dolly.This resembles a pin punch,with a hemispherical depression
in its head (dont we all know the feeling?),and is used to preserve the
shape of the head,while committing assault and battery on the other end
with a ball pein hammer.Should you wish to form another snaphead on the
other end,you will,of course need another snap,but only to finish off.
If you look inside the rear end of a series hardtop roof,Land Rover
didnt trouble themselves to finish off with any neat sort of head,just
so long as the rivet was swelled enough in the hole to hold the joint
tight.
The technique is easy enough to learn.A dolly can be made by turning
up a large "pin punch" in ordinary mild steel,countersinking (using
a twist drill) a depression in the head,then whacking a suitable sized
steel ball bearing into the hole,until the hole assumes a suitable shape.
This will be the dolly.A snap is usually like unto it,but hardened.
The hole should be *just* clearance,and when using,say, a 1/8"
snaphead iron rivet,I usually cut the shank off so that about 3/16"
sticks out on the inside.The head is rested in the dolly,and using
the ball pein of the hammer(and in this case,with the dolly in the
bench vice) the protruding shank is systematically clouted round
the periphery of the shank,so that not only does the rivet swell
into the hole,the head you are forming assumes the correct domed
shape.You dont need a huge hammer,but conversely you dont need one
that is too small,either.The weight of the hammer itself should do most
of the damage.The job is then finished off by putting the snap over
your rough(ish) domed shape and walloping it a time or two,until
you've got the best finish you can get.
The alternative is to countersink the hole,leave somewhat less of
the shank sticking out,and hammer the shank into the countersink,
still using the ball pein,then carefully filing over the job.An
iron rivet in mild steel should then be invisible.
To ensure that the two pieces of metal you are joining are closed
well up,a rivet set will be used.This is yet another "pin punch"
affair,but this time with a hole in the business end,clearance for the
rivet shank.With the head in the dolly,the set is placed over the
shank,and given a sharp blow with the hammer,effectively closing
up the two pieces of metal to be joined.
The problem with all this (and I have to say that I find rivetting
a highly satisfying job on a model) is that as described,the work
pieces are small enough to be held.On a large job,however,the dolly
has to be held on the head somehow,by one operative,while another
person works on the other end.How this could be achieved is problematic,
to say the least.One possibility *may* be to hold the dolly in the
chuck of an electric drill(not connected to the supply) to obtain
sufficient constant pressure on the head to hold it in place,while
the other bloke wallops the bejeezus out of the business end.After
all,with an alloy rivet,the hammer blows dont need to be of Jawn Henry
proportions.And if you arent bothered too much about the shape of the
rivet inside,I cant see why this shouldnt work.(Bet someone else can though:-))
Pop rivets are certainly much easier.
And if I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs,my apologies.

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

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