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From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:17:21 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Translation silliness - marginal Land Rover content

Hm.

Altavistas translation engine (http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com) 
really cracks me up. For some reason, I fed it a couple of sentences
from the list and asked it to render them in German.

The result:

Land Rover  -> Geländewagen
Range Rover -> Geländewagen

Translating back from German to English adds insult to injury:

Geländewagen -> Jeep

Finally, this translation from German to English is just funny,
although one could consider it to be correct from one point of view:

Land Rover -> Country Rover

Oh well.

-- 
Terje Krogdahl
Norwegian Land Rover Club
http://www.land.rover.no/
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

From: "Peter Hope" <shdwrvr@erols.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:06:56 -0400
Subject: Jerry Cans-NBC Kits

>The sportsman's guide has these too, supposedly east german kits >for
>chemical decontamination of vehicles, nice little kit , two 5 liter
>mini-jerricans and brushes and whatnot.
>god only knows what type of chemicals they were meant to hold...
>anyone haveany idea what the eastern block used to clean up NBC >stuff?
>Soap and water maybe? ;)

>From the description these sound very similar to the US M-13 NBC Decon kits.
If the Brush attaches to the can by the hose and it has a built in pump it
probably is.  The 'real' cans contain DS-2 (decontamination solution #2).
This stuff is very very nasty, will peel your skin off.  It combusts on
contact with chlorine (bleach) and will also eat through rubber and canvas.
Also has a low flash point, 140 degrees F if my memory serves me right.  The
training cans that are used for practice never had anything but water in
them.
Well thats my $.02.
Pete Hope

------------------------------

From: "Steve Mace" <steve@solwise.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:09:43 +0000
Subject: Re: FFR electrics

> I've just swapped my original speedo in...   and it doesn't work.
> My MoT is about 3 weeks away.   It looks like I might have to get it
> to an independent garage.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that your speedo 
doesn't actually have to work to pass the MOT - it just has to be 
there!
Steve Mace

1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90
In the UK
-------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.demon.co.uk
www: http://www.demon.co.uk/solwise/
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:29:57 +0100
Subject: Re: FFR electrics

Somebody at work said the same yesterday.

Anyway, I've just phoned up Gumtree - they're going to do the shocks,
speedo, and look at the welding + pass it through an MoT.
I thought I'd see what they're like.
It does need fixing - even though it hasn't worked since September. Also
makes a mockery of my limited mileage insurance!    :-)

I swapped the head back to the original lastnight - and it isn't any
better!  :-(

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

steve@solwise.demon.co.uk on 04/28/98 02:09:43 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: FFR electrics

> I've just swapped my original speedo in...   and it doesn't work.
> My MoT is about 3 weeks away.   It looks like I might have to get it
      [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
> My MoT is about 3 weeks away.   It looks like I might have to get it
> to an independent garage.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that your speedo
doesn't actually have to work to pass the MOT - it just has to be
there!
Steve Mace
1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90
In the UK
-------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.demon.co.uk
www: http://www.demon.co.uk/solwise/
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:31:32 -0400
Subject: Please be seated

>From a Sunday newspaper article on the recent public executions in Rwanda: 
"The four-person firing squad roared into the stadium in a Land-Rover..."

Gives new meaning to the phrase, "Death came slowly."

On a lighter note, I sprung for a new-to-me set of bucket seats (black) from a
wrecked '95 Honda Prelude.   All the critical measurements are within 3/4 inch
of the stock seats - width, depth, seat cushion height above rails (even
closer when I subtract the duct-tape from the height of my stock seats ;-)).  
Installing them will, no doubt, be harder than I think.   Wish me luck. 
Anyone have experience with a similar project?

Rgds, 

Jeff 
73 SIII 88

------------------------------

From: LEBLANC_CJ 
</DD.XMRROUTE=Leblanc#l#u#r#Cj#l#a#r#AM#l#a#r#I22005/@csc-scc.x400.gc.ca>
Date: 28 Apr 1998 13:36:49 +0000
Subject: Resto Questions

Howdy all!

     I am a faithful digest reader but this is my first submission to
the list.  Yes I am a list virgin.
     I am starting a frame up resto of my 88.  The frame is ready for a
coat of POR 15.  Leaf springs, bushings etc. are on the way in June. 
     I have the opportunity to purchase two donor vehicles for $400. A
late IIA and an early III which, after initial inspection, are complete
and completely rust free above the frame.  One of the engines is
reported to have only accumulated 18000 miles since new.  The owner
claims it ran smoothly until an engine mount broke, causing the oil line
(engine to head??) to break, causing the engine to knock, causing the
owner to immediately shut down the engine, causing the vehicle to be
parked (for 3 years).  
     My question is, what damage can I expect to find in this engine? 
What are the possibilities?
     One other thing, is the transmission casing (not the bell housing)
strong enough to support the weight of the transmission if I mount it to
an engine stand?  This would be your typical $150, four bolts run
through it, engine stand.       

Thank you la!

Charles LeBlanc
1969 Transitional IIA 88 SW
1996 Polaris XCR 600 (Give me a break, it snows a lot in Eastern Canada)

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:45:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Resto Questions

Re: Resto:

You came to the right place - a lot of us are doing them...

Re: Donors:

Sounds good! On the knocking engine, I'd pull the pan and have a look at
the main bearings and big-end bearings. Thisd can be done without removing
the engine from the donor vehicle. If the bearings look OK, then you're in
good shape. It may well not have run long enough to damage anything - but
an examination of the shells will tell you right away.

It might also be that the "knock" they heard was valve-train noise, and
that the engine got shut down before itlost lower-end oil pressure. An
examination of the valve train might be in order, just to look for pounding
damage. Popping off the oil-filler neck and its cover from the side of the
engine (6 bolts and little effort) would let you examine the cam for
galling - another spot that might have gotten damaged by lack of oil.

Of course, if you're feeling daring, replacing the oil line and firing it
up would tell you a lot too, but could lead to more damage. I'd inspect
first.

Re: Transmission stand mount:

I wouldn't  - separate the trans and the transfer case - both sections are
easily light enough to move about separately without a stand, and easy to
work on on a bench.

               Al Richer

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:18:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Please be seated

Jeff,

No help, really, but if you figure out a way to get them to tilt forward
let me know. I'd love something better than the damn squabs...my back can't
handle 'em much longer.

...and I'm too damn cheap to buy Defender seats.

          ajr

------------------------------

From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:54:39 -0500
Subject: Station Wagon, Safari Models - std items

Hi all,

I'm putting my truck on display later this week, and was trying to put
together a description of what made the IIa 88 Station Wagon models
different than standard models. Doing a search through the archive, I
also found reference to a "Safari" designation. Originally, I had
thought that "Safari" and "Station Wagon" were synonymous, but now I'm
not sure. So, here's what I think I know, and if anyone can confirm or
deny that would be great.

"Optional" items found on my 1966 SW:

- Tropical Roof & 4 Roof Vents
- Alpine Windows
- Rear Spilt "Jump" seats
- Rear Sliding Windows

(did the combination of these four denote the "Safari" designation?)

- Deluxe Bonnet, noted by the dish for the spare and rolled edges
- Side & Rear Steps
- Interior Trim & Rear Head Pads
- Soundproofing & Insulation on bulkhead & tunnel
- PTO Throttle
- Seat Belts (when were these no longer options? Mine are aircraft
style...)
- Kodiak Heater
- Ashtray
- SW name badge

Please send along an email to me with the post, as I'd like the info
today but I'm in digest mode.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:06:05 +0100
Subject: Re: Station Wagon, Safari Models - std items

I know someone with a 109" Safari Station Wagon. He reckoned the double
roof was the safari bit.

I thought safari was just a trim level.

To add further confusion, I have the hand throttle (for battery charging
rather than PTO, in my case); and the deluxe bonnet.      :-)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

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From: Luis Manuel Gutierrez <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:06:00 -0500
Subject: RE: Welding

Is this kind of a joke?
How many times do we have to read about it?, I lost the count.

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From: Luis Manuel Gutierrez <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:08:30 -0500
Subject: RE: Welding - Sorry

I'm sorry, my mail got all mixed up.
Thought it was a new posting.

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From: Luis Manuel Gutierrez <lgutierr@jccr.co.cr>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:59:32 -0500
Subject: RE: Station Wagon, Safari Models - std items

I don't know  if this can help you.
Popular knowledge is not always correct
but in my country people call "safari" to the 109" station wagons, and call 
"station wagon" to the 88" sw.
I'm not sure if this has any basis, but people has called them that way since 
always.

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------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:04:07 -0400
Subject: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

I'm just curious - who of the US users got invited to an LR dealership for
the 50th anniversary party on Thursday?

I did - a friend with a coiler recommended me to the dealer - called me a
"Series bigot" he did...

How inaccurate - it's not coils I dislike but attitudes...8*)

Jeff Berg did, and Dr. Whatever in Florida...who else?

     aj"And I plan to show them a REAL car...muddy to the wing tops!"r

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:29:39 EDT
Subject: Re:  OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

LR Jacksonville will have a Series or two. Dimmitt LR in Clearwater owns a
SIII, and will have two CCV Series from the UK, Reeves LR in Tampa will have
an ex-mil SIII109, and LR North Dade isn't aware of the event; but one service
guys asked me to get the dirty 110 even dirtier and drop some dried mud on
their floor.

And as soon as I get my raincoat back from the cleaners, I'll be on display at
the park, same spot, same time ;-)

pat.

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:54:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

> I'm just curious - who of the US users got invited to an LR dealership for
> the 50th anniversary party on Thursday?

> I did - a friend with a coiler recommended me to the dealer - called me a
> "Series bigot" he did...

I did.  The past president of the Chicago Land Rover Club is the Centre
manager at Knauz in Lake Forest, and may have invited all the local
leaf-springers.

>      aj"And I plan to show them a REAL car...muddy to the wing tops!"r

I had planned to show off my mud job -on the roof even! - but 150 miles
in driving rain took it all off. 

david

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 12:51:58 EST
Subject: Re: Thanks

>Hi everyone, it's me again.  Thanks for everyones help in finding me 
>the stuff I needed, but I've changed my mind.  Instead of getting 
>another '95 Discovery, ... we decided to get the next best thing, a '95 
>Montero.  Any thoughts or MOD ideas?  Thanks everyone!

Here's a thought...
Try the coil-sprung list. Please?
Thanks

DaveB
Arlington VA 
'72 SIII "GreenHELL"
...the woods are lovely, dark and deep, many gas stations before I sleep...

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:00:43 EST
Subject: Re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

Al wrote:

     >> I plan to show them a REAL car...muddy to the wing tops!
     
     ...and shining with lemon pledge from the dash on up!
You oughtta bring amanda's rover instead...

later

------------------------------

From: Paul Wakefield - Serco <Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:08:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: re: terriers (No LR)

DaveB wrote:
> Dave "terrier?" B

This is a reference to the characteristics of a terrier dog, who allegedly once 
have a hold of something, will not let it go.
Bone, ideas, thought it was appropriate .... honest ....

Maybe we should have a vote on who resembles what dog (character or looks !!!)

No, NO, bad idea, please strike that from the record .....

Paul"daschund"W

P.S. Who would be the pit bull ?

------------------------------

From: Lenny Warren <lwarren@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:58:33 +0100
Subject: Blue smoke??

Hi there,

The ser 3 diesel 88 is coming up for it's MOT. However i can't get rid of
the blue smoke which bellows out of the exhaust on the overrun!

The smoke is only there on the overrun or at startup or at very slow
speeds. When I'm driving normally it's fine!

So... I've tried the following:

	Replaced valve stem oil seals, reground the valves at same time!
	Checked piston play in head, not bad, not enough to cause it!
	Checked butterfly valve in manifold to servo, closed at idle!
	Checked oil bath in air filter, ok!

Any other ideas???

I have heard that if a fuel pump is faulty it can suck oil in from the
block and mix it with the diesel. Any thoughts???

Also, one of the injectors is clogged, but that causes black smoke
surely??? I do have  black smoke on acceleration!

Catch you later,
Lenny...

                  Lenny Warren, Strathaven, Scotland.             
                  e-mail: lwarren@zetnet.co.uk  
                  www: http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/8160

------------------------------

From: Paul Wakefield - Serco <Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:15:45 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Departed Coilers. Was 'Beluga Black'

Hi all,

Talking of departed coilers, did 'Uncle' Roger Sinasohn trade-in his Series and 
departed coilers, did 'Uncle' Roger Sinasohn trade-in his Series and defect to 
the cso list ?

We haven't heard from him in a long time ....

Paul.

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: re: terriers (No LR)

Paul Wakefield asked:

>>P.S. Who would be the pit bull ?

The way things are going, there are too many candidates...<grin>

Personally, my vote would either be for Russ ( psychopathic Pittsburgh pit
bull) Wilson, or Dave (sleeker, more refined Washington pit bull) Bobeck...

          aj"Don't visualize..."r

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:39:36 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Jerry cans

spenny wrote
>>Jerry Can
>Is that a correctly located Spice Girl?

>no, that is just part of one of the Spice Girls :)

you mean her "swirly cakes"?

------------------------------

From: GElam30092 <GElam30092@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:55:59 EDT
Subject: driving and talking on a cell phone

:>>>> Also for talking on a cellular while driving, <<<<

:To some people in the US this is a contradiction in terms. Usually their
:doing either, or and not able to do both simultaneously!! Sounds like a
:good law to put into legislation here in the US

Read somewhere that your chances of getting into an accident while talking on
the phone are the same as if your blood alcohol is 0.10 !

LR Content:  Saw Ben Smith's Dora this last weekend on the Mendo.  If you're
ever in an accident, you can always paint the flag of the car's origin on the
side like Ben did!  I enjoyed seeing that!!!!

Later,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:14:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: driving and talking on a cell phone

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, GElam30092 wrote:

> Read somewhere that your chances of getting into an accident while talking on
> the phone are the same as if your blood alcohol is 0.10 !

I do cellular infrastructure tech support, so the people I talk to are all
mobile phone users.  A couple of months ago, I was talking to a guy who
was driving on the highway in the mountains.  He decided that he needed
to talk to someone else he worked with, so he whipped out a second phone
and called him up!  

David "Cellular phones don't cause cancer;  the tree kills 'em first!"
Scheidt

------------------------------

From: Lodelane <Lodelane@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:33:33 EDT
Subject: Re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

OOOOOO, OOOOOO, ME TOO, ME TOO.

Seriously, the service manager and the office manager of Land Rover Richmond
(VA) are Series fans.  Asked me to contact some of the locals.  Looks like
five leafers, in various formats, will be there Thursday.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA

------------------------------

From: "Bob Sjonnesen" <bob@cancom.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re:  What to do with old springs	

    We use them to make ice chisels here.  Simply cut off a 6" length  and
weld it to a steel 3/8" tube.  Put a T-handle on top.  The end can be
sharpened flat or my favourite design  has an "M" shaped end. Sharpen all
edges to the point.  Works great for cutting icefishing holes.  I think it
would work well on a bear also. I call it a bob-it! It would be fast and
efficient.

Cheers

Bob

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:16:13 -0400
Subject: re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

As Al said, FINSUP and I will be on display in Darien, CT.  Herb Zipkin
(IRF Expedition Series IIa & Eric's Stage 1), Tom Smith (Series III), Jared
Silbersher (101FC) and a local immaculate Series I (obviously not
Zippy's--though it is coming along nicely) are also "scheduled to appear."
I'll be wearing one of Seth's "Yuppie Scum" t-shirts for the occassion.

Heavy rain washed the Rover on the way home from Assateague this past
weekend so I guess I'll do what Al's doing and apply some "mud-in-a-can."
;-)

RoverOn!

jab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT
                  jeff@purpleshark.com
                   ==================
	Bimbo-limbo is where I've been...
	I'm looking for a smart woman in a real short skirt
	A smart woman who knows how to flirt
			--Jimmy Buffett, Smart Woman

------------------------------

From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:32:14 -0500
Subject: LR kill flags (Was: driving and talking on a cell phone)

Gerry Elam wrote:
> LR Content:  Saw Ben Smith's Dora this last weekend on the Mendo.  If you're
> ever in an accident, you can always paint the flag of the car's origin on the
> side like Ben did!  I enjoyed seeing that!!!!

	Yup Dora got a kill and took out a Honda Civic.  Dora drove away
relatively undamaged.  The Honda needed a flatbed and was totaled.  (The 
rear X-member ripped him open like a can opener.)  So I painted a small
(maybe 1.5" by 2.5" rising sun Japanese flag on the driver's door.  

	Unfortunately, that confuses people.  They keep asking if I'm Japanese.
If Dora gets a second kill, then it will all become clear to them.

	I also had "Dora" written on the front left wing between the
wheel and the firewall.

	I think it would be cool if more LRs had their names (and kill flags =)
painted on them. 

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

------------------------------

From: MRogers315 <MRogers315@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:44:19 EDT
Subject: Gearbox field repairs

Whilst at the BLRC bash at Bircham Newton last weekend the gearbox in my
hybrid locked up un me. When I say locked up I mean I was unable to select any
gears following an abortive attempt to select reverse. Popping the top off
(not an easy job as most of the floor panel and tunnel cover bolts were
seized) revealed nothing wrong with the selectors. Peering inside the box with
a torch revealed  a reverse idler gear wobbling around in the bottom of the
box. With visions of expensive gearbox repairs along with many hours hauling
the thing out and back in, I drained the oil and removed the side cover plate.

Having removed this plate the reverse idler gear almost fell out of the box!!.
The shaft it runs on had slid out of place allowing the gear to fall off the
end. Further investigation revealed that the shaft should have been kept in
place by a small bolt that passes throught the casing and screws into a
threaded hole in the side of the shaft towards the rear end. This bolt had
sheared flush with the shaft allowing the shaft to just slide out of place and
the gear fall off.

By removing the bottom plate of the transfer box the shaft was removed, the
sheared bolt drilled out, the threads cleaned, and the whole thing re-
assembled re-using the original bolt (it was found lying in the bottom of the
gearbox) which was obviosly too long in the first place as it still fitted
despite having lost about 4mm. 

Now the question is, what caused the bolt to shear? and will it do it again. I
could see nothing wrong with the shaft or the gear!. As far as I am concerned
the field repair (and yes it was carried out in a field) will be the final
fix. All I intend doing is changing the oil. The box in question is a very old
4 speed Range Rover box, the same as used in the 101. 

This is why I love these machines, we can fix them.

I must add that without the enthusiastic help from Matt and James the job
would not have got done in the 3 hours it took us.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 16:04:49 EST
Subject: Re[2]: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

>As Al said, FINSUP and I will be on display in Darien, CT. ...

>..Heavy rain washed the Rover on the way home from Assateague this past 
>weekend so I guess I'll do what Al's doing and apply some "mud-in-a-can." 

really, al?
I thought this service was provided by LRNA through subcontracted OVLR members.
I didn't know it was available in a can. Thought that was reserved for lemon 
pledge dash polish...

Just don't get your cans mixed up!

later
Dave

------------------------------

From: Jarvis 64 <Jarvis64@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:08:39 EDT
Subject: Waterproofing

Hi everybody,
Just need a bit of advice on waterproofing my distro and plug wires.  They're
in a really bad place (down low, wedged under the passenger footwell), so
they're a) more prone to get wet while fording and b) about a 45 min. project
to change the cap.  It's a Pontiac 2.5l engine, for those of you who are
asking "what the hell is his distributor doing down there?"

Anyway, will regular good ol' silicone gasket maker work, or si there
something better?

Thanks
Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 16:08:29 EST
Subject: Re: LR kill flags (Was: driving and talking on a cell phone)

 >I think it would be cool if more LRs had their names (and kill flags =)
>painted on them. 

Mine would have to be little pictures of trees...

later

DaveB
Arlington VA
...sure we can share the information superhighway...
just stay out of MY lane. 

------------------------------

From: Alessandro Castellana <kastel@tor.it>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:23:27 +0200
Subject: White smoke

Hi all; I have a 69SIIA 88 ser# 27105726C and a78SIII 88  ser#90920883A
They have very worn engines but like any other Land_Rovers they work.
Actually they have a white smoke when I warm them up in the morning.
Today I tried an additive ( Diesel Power 3 WYNN'S). 
Any suggestion?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Alessandro Castellana
kastel@tor.it
Italy
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

From: Tim Harincar <harincar@Camworks.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:30:40 -0500
Subject: RE: Station Wagon, Safari Models - std items

I found a thread on this same subject in the digest logs from 1993 (!).
In the UK, according the what Mike Rooth posted at the time, there was
no official 'Safari' designation to Station Wagon models. 

I'm wondering, however, if in NA there wasn't possibly a 'Safari'
"option package" that one could add on to a SW or there was some other
marketing going on. It does appear that there are different items fitted
to different wagons, especially the 88's. Unless, of course, original
purchasers requested different things - this we may never know.

For example, the rear seats seem to be one major item of deviation -
I've seen another 88 SW with "bench" seats along the tub, mine are 4
individual seats. When was one fitted and not the other? Alpine windows
are another thing. Seems like all 109 SWs had them, but not all 88 SWs.

FWIW, my serno is 31800441.

Tim
---
tim harincar
harincar@camworks.com
Camworks, St. Paul, MN
http://www.camworks.com
Internet Solutions that Power Business 

------------------------------

From: Alessandro Castellana <kastel@tor.it>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:32:50 +0200
Subject: White smoke

Hi all; I have a 69SIIA 88 ser# 27105726C and a78SIII 88  ser#90920883A
They have very worn engines but like any other Land_Rovers they work.
Actually they have a white smoke when I warm them up in the morning.
Today I tried an additive ( Diesel Power 3 WYNN'S). 
Any suggestion?
Regards

------------------------------

From: Matthew James Moore <mjm@unr.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Waterproofing

Hi Bill,

	I've heard that a latex surgeons glove (placed over the dist. with
the wires sticking out small holes in each finger) works well to keep the
water out.  Any coments from the list? does this work? 

Matt Moore
Ser. III 88' Santana

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Jarvis 64 wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> Just need a bit of advice on waterproofing my distro and plug wires.  They're
> in a really bad place (down low, wedged under the passenger footwell), so
> they're a) more prone to get wet while fording and b) about a 45 min. project
> to change the cap.  It's a Pontiac 2.5l engine, for those of you who are
> asking "what the hell is his distributor doing down there?"
> Anyway, will regular good ol' silicone gasket maker work, or si there
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> Thanks
> Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: GElam30092 <GElam30092@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:48:44 EDT
Subject: RE Re: Newbie-wannabe in Arizona

:From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
:Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:24:59 -0700
:Subject: Re: Newbie-wannabe in Arizona

:Jim & Paula,

:You need to talk to Mike Smith, John Hess, or Nick Baggerly (all of whom I've
:CC'd on this message).  IMO, they are the most knowledgeable 'wired' people
when
:it comes to LR dormies.  Be careful, though, as you might end up like Nick,
who
:has it bad:  he currently owns three dormies, an 88, a 110, and a Rangie. 
:John's not too far behind Nick with three Land Rovers (two running) and Mike
had
:to go into the LR business (he's proprietor of East Coast Rover) to support
his
:habit!

I sent these folks a note too.  Invited them to the Scottsdale dealer event
where TeriAnn will hopefully show up after the B2B event.

Rumor also has it that there may be as many as 5 Dormobiles on the northern AZ
trip in June!   B-)    

Later...
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: GElam30092 <GElam30092@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:48:45 EDT
Subject: re rollcages

If you're looking for a rollcage for a Series, below is a message from the
UK/Safety Devices.  

The numbers for the lump below translates roughly to 55" x 45" X 12"   and
weighs 110 lbs.  My cost to ship worked out to be $214 including insurance
through Fed Ex Freight from London (couldn't remember where they are located
off the top of my head) to Phoenix 85012.  I am accepting donations too!  :-)
I don't have the cost sheet handy but it appears, barring any large donations,
that having one built would be a better alternative.
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

The RBL205SSS when packaged has the following dimensions:-

1400mm x 1140mm x 300mm @ ~50 kgs 

I look forward to hearing from you,

Regards
Adam Reeves
Safety Devices Lt

------------------------------

From: Mohammed Taheri <mrbeans@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:26:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks

dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org wrote:

> Here's a thought...
> Try the coil-sprung list. Please?
> Thanks
> DaveB
> Arlington VA
> '72 SIII "GreenHELL"

I decided to get another Disco.

Mohammed Taheri
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:48:24 -0700
Subject: Re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

> I'm just curious - who of the US users got invited to an LR dealership for
> the 50th anniversary party on Thursday?
> I did

> Jeff Berg did, and Dr. Whatever in Florida...who else?

I'll not only be working at one but also had an invite to another and will
be having one dealer taking advantage of Mathilda (109SW) for display.

At least got the day right around here (April 30) although I'm not sure
most could explain why.

cheers

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:00:03 -0700
Subject: Re: LR kill flags (Was: driving and talking on a cell phone)

Benjamin Smith wrote:

>         I think it would be cool if more LRs had their names (and kill flags 
=)
> painted on them.

Potential flame fest from the righteously indignant :) :... are you saying you'd
like
to seem more vehicles totalled ? :)

OTOH you could consider a brand mark on the side rather than flag.  I suppose
I could paint a Toyota logo on Samson... but that would only confuse people
who don't know who makes LRs.

cheers

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:59:13 -0400
Subject: 50th and other matters

For all ROAV members, we will be gathering at Reggie's Pub at the Waterside
7:30 Thursday evening.  The manager has promised happy hour prices on food
and all draft beers until 9:30 for Rover owners.

Has anyone else gotten May's LRO?  Not just one, but *two* photos of Jeff
Berg on the trials course at the MAR.  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:03:02 EDT
Subject: Re:  Thursday

There's a dealer here in FL giving away a free year's lease on a disco at the
30th celebrations. Others are raffling trips for two to the LR Lodge. One I
spoke to hired a live tiger to sit on/across a series vehicle in the showroom.

I also heard there'd be free food (compelling reason to go). I'm toying with
telling a friend to take his early willy's jeep.

pat.

------------------------------

From: slade@imagina.com (Michael Slade)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:20:54 -0800
Subject: Re: LR kill flags (Was: driving and talking on a cell phone)

>Benjamin Smith wrote:
>>         I think it would be cool if more LRs had their names (and kill
>>flags =)
>> painted on them.
>Potential flame fest from the righteously indignant :) :... are you saying
>you'd
>like
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>cheers
>Jeremy

I was going to put a skull and cross bones of a cow on my old '88, and then
when I bought the 109 I was going to put the skull anc cross bones of a
deer on it.

Another thing we were kicking around up here in P-land is an upside-down LR
sticker, only to be worn by those who have actually tipped their vehicle
over.

Later,

Michael Slade
Portland, Oregon
'90 RR (test vehicle)

------------------------------

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Liftgate Glass & Seal

Hi Everybody -

	The liftgate on my IIA fell down and onto a large wooden crate -
the glass and seal got pushed out. Are there any tricks to putting this
back in? I was thinking I'd be able to squeze them back together/in once
they were wet with soapy water - or do I have to go to an auto glass place?

Take Care - Peter

PS Make shure you tighten up your tailgate when transporting large wooden
crates!
PPS Any springers going to Holtz Houes of Vehicles in Rochester NY this
Thursday?

-----------------------
Peter M. Kaskan
Uris Hall 231
Dept. Of Psychology
Cornell University
607-255-3382
pmk11@cornell.edu
-----------------------

------------------------------

From: Kevin Sellitti <Kevinsel@gte.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:31:16 -0400
Subject: RE: driving and talking on a cell phone

 I recently got a cellphone. I do alot of driving and a lot of talking on a 
cellphone. I realized early on that doing both was very dangerous, and quite 
frankly I couldn't stand talking and shifting. Within a week of buying the 
phone I was back at the phone store purchasing a headset for the phone. I love 
it !!! I highly recommend it!!! it was worth the $125.00 I paid for it. As a 
matter of fact I think they should be mandatory.

my $0.02 adjusted for inflation.

----------
From: 	GElam30092[SMTP:GElam30092@aol.com]
Sent: 	Tuesday, April 28, 1998 1:55 PM
Subject: 	driving and talking on a cell phone

:>>>> Also for talking on a cellular while driving, <<<<

:To some people in the US this is a contradiction in terms. Usually their
:doing either, or and not able to do both simultaneously!! Sounds like a
:good law to put into legislation here in the US

Read somewhere that your chances of getting into an accident while talking on
the phone are the same as if your blood alcohol is 0.10 !

LR Content:  Saw Ben Smith's Dora this last weekend on the Mendo.  If you're
ever in an accident, you can always paint the flag of the car's origin on the
side like Ben did!  I enjoyed seeing that!!!!

Later,
Gerry Elam
PHX AZ

------------------------------

From: David Russell <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:34:24 -0400
Subject: Hydraulic Fluid level/Clutch Master

Before overhauling my clutch master cylinder, I just wanted to check that
I'm headed in the right direction.

Under the circumstances to be described, my clutch and brakes work well,
the only difference being the location of some hydraulic fluid.

When I fill up my fluid resevoir, I have a slow leak of hydraulic fluid
down the clutch pedal onto my shoe and then the floorboard. This continues
until the entire resevoir level drops to about 1/3 or 1/4 full. At this
point, the leakage appears to stop.

Is this indicative of the need for a simple overhaul or is there some other
problem?

Does anyone have a suggestion for a commonly available tube (as described
in the repair manual) to be used when clearing the clutch hydraulics after
an overhaul?

TIA

David Russell
1997 Discovey SD 5-speed
90% of the pieces needed for a 1969 SIIA "Bugeye" 88" SW Petrol
1965+/- SIIA 109" P/U Diesel, "Loo" (Thanks DaveB)
1977 Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser (sort of)
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r

------------------------------

From: David Russell <David_R@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:41:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Fluid level/Clutch Master

How?! That was the original reason for my post. There is _now_, no
leakage--no danger of slipping off the brake pedal. Is my master cylinder
problem solved by an overhaul or is there some other problem? Before
tearing down, I'd like to know if others have experienced the same symptoms
and what their cure (if any) was.

>From: Paul Wakefield - Serco <Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it>
>David Russell wrote.
>: When I fill up my fluid resevoir, I have a slow leak of hydraulic fluid
>: down the clutch pedal onto my shoe and then the floorboard. This continues

Snip

>*** FIX THIS PROBLEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE ! ***
>A cautionary tale:
>The fluid gets on to the floor, the pedals and your shoes in very little time.
>This has the unfortunate side effect of making your *brake* pedal very
>slippery.
>You wouldn't want your foot to slip off it in an emergency stop situation

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
>you .... ?
>Paul.

David Russell
David_R@mindspring.com
MRM Inc.
hdqt@mrminc.com
Kensington, MD USA
http://www.mrminc.com

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:45:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Fluid level/Clutch Master

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, David Russell wrote:

> Under the circumstances to be described, my clutch and brakes work well,
> the only difference being the location of some hydraulic fluid.
 When I fill up my fluid resevoir, I have a slow leak of hydraulic fluid
 down the clutch pedal onto my shoe and then the floorboard. This continues
 until the entire resevoir level drops to about 1/3 or 1/4 full. At this
 point, the leakage appears to stop.

Is fluid coming out of the cylinder?  I would expect that to come out as
long as there was fluid to do so.  Check that it isn't the resevoir that
is leaking.

David

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:26:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Liftgate Glass & Seal

The glass and seal on these are fairly easy to refit.

Take a good look at the seal - you'll notice that it's actually two pieces
- the seal and a "rope" of rubber that pushes the seal into shape to hold
the glass.

Recommendation, though - if yours is anything like the ones I've stripped
off all of my roofs - do yourself a favor and replace the rubber. Most auto
glass shops carry it by the foot - what you do is put it around the hole,
measuring it out 1" overlength. Then push it into place, compressing it
into the opening to soak up the extra inch.

The glass gets inserted, then the rubber strip is put into place (or
depending on the type you get) folded over into the groove to apply
pressure to the glass and hold it in place.

For more details, have a look at the LR manuals - they detail the
procedure.

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:31:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Liftgate Glass & Seal

In a message dated 4/28/98 7:36:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pmk11@cornell.edu
writes:

<< 	The liftgate on my IIA fell down and onto a large wooden crate -
 the glass and seal got pushed out. Are there any tricks to putting this
 back in? I was thinking I'd be able to squeze them back together/in once
 they were wet with soapy water - or do I have to go to an auto glass place?
  >>

Been there.  I don't know the best way but what worked for me was:
1.  Do the process in a WARM room (or hot sun) That is, take the liftgate off
the truck and lay it flat. (Heat helps with seal suppleness)
2.  Put the fat black seal all the way around the opening.
3.  Place the glass on the fat seal and start working it under the lip of the
seal.  I started at a corner and worked my way around.  This process took me
about 30 minutes.  I used a 1 inch putty knife and a wide screwdriver for
help.
4.  After getting the glass seated, force the sealing strip into its groove.
I used a narrow screwdriver for help.  This process took me about 45 minutes. 

That's it.  
BTW, when I tried to install it with the liftgate still on the truck I had
nothing but trouble.

Nate

------------------------------

From: "Mark Talbot" <rangerover@top.monad.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:19:22 -0400
Subject: Another NH off-road

 All,

I will be arranging another off-road trip for the BSROA in early June. But
as usual, I will run a trip for non-BSROA (BSROA who can't make the June
date are welcome) members a few weeks before. I have scouted out about 15
miles of new trails in Troy / Activity / Richmond NH and will be off again
this weekend to scout out a few more trails to complete the route.

Some of the highlights are :

Visit a cemetery in the woods from the late 1600's, Grave stones still there
! Spooky !!
3 stream / river crossings.
A trip up Little Mount Monadnock.

It is possible to do this whole trip off-road. There is a few hundred yards
of dirt road, then back on the trail again. The trails should keep everyone
moving all the time, except two sections. One to cross a stream where the
bridge has rotted away, and another section I tried this evening that has
some rather large rocks to get over. This will need spotting to get everyone
over without damage.

Beside the section we tried a few weekends ago, these trails have not
appeared on a "Talbot Tour" before and I think you will thoroughly enjoy
them. We literally have over 20 miles of trails in the woods, some have not
been traveled in years.

This should be non-damaging, but those Land Rovers with a nice shiny
paintwork, beware, you will get that paint scratched as some of these trails
have closed in a little through lack of use.

If those are interested we can Bar-B-Q at my place after. But I'm not going
to fund it, so you can bring beer, food and I will get the grill out if
enough people want to eat after.

Date    : Sunday 17th May
Departs : 11:00am
Lunch   : Bring one !

Normal recovery equipment required.

restricted to the first 12 vehicles ( but I can squeeze a few more if
pushed. I want to keep the group moving.

I will post directions to those that need them. I'm still not sure where we
will start from, as I want to do a "loop" and I need to figure out the best
way to do this. So that will determine the where we start.

These trails are not the cross axle twisting, diff smashing routes that some
of the more adventurous D90's owners prefer. However, if those owners want
that type of trail, let me know because we can tackle the power lines some
other time. 26 miles of passable, axle twisting rocks, vertical winch climbs
down rock faces and huge mud holes ! But this trip will require vehicles to
be well equipped.

------------------------------

From: "d.h.lowe" <dhlowe@idirect.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:44:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Waterproofing

Try a large kitchen cleaning glove.......cut the ends off the 
fingers.......slide
over the distributor leads and tie rap around the leads.pull down over the
distrib.....

Jarvis 64 wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> Just need a bit of advice on waterproofing my distro and plug wires.  They're
> in a really bad place (down low, wedged under the passenger footwell), so
> they're a) more prone to get wet while fording and b) about a 45 min. project
> to change the cap.  It's a Pontiac 2.5l engine, for those of you who are
> asking "what the hell is his distributor doing down there?"
> Anyway, will regular good ol' silicone gasket maker work, or si there
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Thanks
> Bill Rice

------------------------------

From: Solihull <Solihull@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:18:49 EDT
Subject: Re:  Re: Parabolic springs

Some of the lightweights I've seen over here seem to have parabolic springs on
'em. They're two or three leaves and not elliptic in shape, anyway.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS     LROA #1095
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
Vintage Rover Service, since 1994, where we say:
Land Rovers for Agriculture!
Land Rovers for Industry!
Land Rovers for Recreation!
Land Rovers forever!! D.V.

------------------------------

From: Brian Cramer <defender@uscom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: OK - show of hands - who's on display on Thursday?

My Lightweight will be in the showroom at Land Rover Cherry Hill (NJ). 

Brian Cramer

At 12:04 PM 4/28/98 , you wrote:
>I'm just curious - who of the US users got invited to an LR dealership for
>the 50th anniversary party on Thursday?
>I did - a friend with a coiler recommended me to the dealer - called me a
>"Series bigot" he did...

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
>Jeff Berg did, and Dr. Whatever in Florida...who else?
>     aj"And I plan to show them a REAL car...muddy to the wing tops!"r

------------------------------

From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:02:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Waterproofing

Here in Toronto using a household rubber cleaning glove is a popular trick that
works very well protecting the distributor from water while wading. Just clip a
small hole in the tip of each finger and feed the plug wires through. A dab of
silicone and a small tie wrap will effectively seal the hole back up and the 
glove
is long enough that it will extend way down to the bottom of the distributor
providing excellent waterproofing. I take the second glove and fit it over the 
coil
for extra protection.

We have been using this method for years now and it has proved invaluable on our
many forays into Lake Ontario out at Picton. Check out our antics in the water 
for
proof at

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/6053/wet.htm

Brett

Matthew James Moore wrote:

        I've heard that a latex surgeons glove (placed over the dist. with
the wires sticking out small holes in each finger) works well to keep the
water out.  Any coments from the list? does this work?

Matt Moore
Ser. III 88' Santana

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Jarvis 64 wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> Just need a bit of advice on waterproofing my distro and plug wires.
They're

------------------------------

From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:18:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Waterproofing (and wading...)

WOW - What a great set of pictures!

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/6053/wet.htm

Can't wait to get my rover wet this summer!

So apart from the pair of gloves you used in waterproofing -  What else
do you need to do to do this. I know about the wading plug. Should you
have a closed crankcase ventilation/oil filler system - like the newer
series (mine is a '65 IIA - original in that respect)? It also didn't
look like you guys/gals had raised intakes. Is this the limiting
factor? What does soaking an alternator do to it? I've heard of some
people having raised exausts - what is this for?!

See you later maybe - I'm in upstate NY - Peter

-----------------------

Peter M. Kaskan

Uris Hall 231

Dept. Of Psychology

Cornell University

607-255-3382

pmk11@cornell.edu

-----------------------

------------------------------

From: Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:26:17 -0400

Sandy points out:
>Has anyone else gotten May's LRO?  Not just one, but *two* photos of Jeff
>Berg on the trials course at the MAR.  Cheers

Glad someone *else* finally noticed. I was afraid that I was going to have
to toot my horn (again)! ;-)  Have I mentioned my WWW page index?
(http://www.off-road.com/OVLR/jberg/)

Kudos to Kevin Girling for the photos. IMHO the two captions got (or if
intentional then should have been) reversed NOT Kevin's fault if Jeff
Meyer's experience with LRW/OVLR B-day article--total caption screwup--is
any guide.

To answer the unasked question--Yes, cards and letters from English school
girls are pouring in. (Of course I've forwarded them all to Zippy)...Fan
club is in the works...I believe there will be a tour this summer...and no,
it's not going to my head.

RoverOn!

j "my speaking fee just doubled--that'll be TWO Dark-n-Stormys" ab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

From: jimellis@primenet.com (jim ellis)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:45:24 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Small boys and fools

john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca said:
>Driving a VW bus you must be used to people smiling at you. Mostly in
>that rather patronizing way reserved for small boys and fools.
>===============================================================
>Got me on that one. I know a "fool" who sold a concours '51 Beetle

Cabriolet and an unrestored 23 window bus as a package deal for $60k! My bus
has been appraised at $30k USD. Watch for it in upcoming issues of Hot VWs
magazine.
>Patronizing? naw, just reserved for folks enjoying their vehicles which are
>that rather patronizing way reserved for small boys and fools.
appreciating and not costing anywhere near $450.++ USD plus insurance
*lease* payment per month.
>I haven't considered myself small, a boy, or a fool in years. Able to take
a joke? Sure! =)
>My favorite is getting a secret smile from the wife in the passing vehicle
as the redneckish "old man" is popping forehead veins trying to pass me. You
haven't been in Arizona lately have you?
>Actually, I literally got laughed at today asking a junk yard for
>that rather patronizing way reserved for small boys and fools.
availability of Landie spares or projects. After mentioning that I had a
history with VWs and was looking at a different marque, the fella bellowed
"Everybody has parts for VWs! *NOBODY* has parts for the LRs!! Are you 'ing
nuts!!!?" I saw the error in all sides of his comment. A trip Tucson is planned.
>Called the Scottsdale Landie dealer re: an event this Thursday. Was asked
>that rather patronizing way reserved for small boys and fools.
if I was a LR owner. Replied that I was shopping for one. Was told that the
event was intended for "owners." The contact mentioned that the dealership
was afterall a public place and that I would not be asked to leave. (Was
that an invite?) I thanked her for her acute ability to define a target
market, qualify a potential client and that I would introduce myself on
Thursday. Oh Biff, be a dear and pass the quiche please...
>-ellis\
>that rather patronizing way reserved for small boys and fools.

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258 <CIrvin1258@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:02:41 EDT
Subject: Re: LR kill flags (Was: driving and talking on a cell phone)

Damn! This reminds me...I still have to paint a kill mark on my 109!

Last year, I took out a Toyota T-100! Wasn't really my fault - we were both
inching our way into a jammed mainstreet, and the guy in front of him decided
to lock his brakes! He hit the guy, and I smooshed him!

In the end, it turned out that the guy in front of him had no reason to stop -
he was just being a jerk.

I drove away victorious, and would have done a barrel-roll in my 109, if I
could!

Charles
P.S. Technically, since I pushed the poor fellow into the first car (after he
had already hit it), I could paint on TWO kill marks. 3 more, and I'm an Ace!

------------------------------

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From: "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:57:26 +1200
Subject: LRO Magazine

Hello to all on the list. It was confirmed to me today that New Zealand is
behind the rest of the world. Went to the local bookshop and asked for the
latest copy of LRO. He wrapped it up like a good shop keeper should,
However when I got to my van and open the parcel the date on the mag was
MARCH 1998. I made my way back to the shop  a little hot under the collar,
thinking this guy was having me on. He wasn't and yes we may see the new
millennium before anyone else but LRO wise we are behind the rest of you
people.
Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
Series 3
tomd@clear.net.nz
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From: Paul Wakefield - Serco <Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:36:38 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Land Rover Deaths

Duncan Phillips said:
: I have a related question - would a hard-top have faired any better in a
: flip/roll or should I consider getting a roll bar (not that I intend to
: roll my motor).

By the looks of my hard top, it is a _very_ sturdy item. I would have thought 
it 
could withstand quite a load e.g. if the truck was upside down on it.

I doubt however it could withstand much shear force sideways as it isn't 
attached to the tub by that many fixing points.

If you saw the picture in (one of last years ?) LROI's of a D90 with an 
articulated lorry on top of it you would attest to the hard tops strength.
(this particular incident allegedly happened after a 'duel' on a single track 
bridge)

No personal experience, just MHO.

Paul.

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