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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:54:48 -0300
Subject: Re: Beemers buy the brits out!

>say Bavarian Range Rover.

The BAV 4?

------------------------------

From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 07:19:51 -0600
Subject: A question of LR history

Hi All,
 Well a friend is questioning the history of his 1967 NADA 109.  He is
new to being a Land rover owner & has noticed several odd things about
his new project.  On the outside of the drivers door is several rivited
flag plates attached to thejust below the edge of the door.  They do not
look like PO work but professional installion.  There is also decals
which look to be applied to the original dash & as old.  On the front
fenders there is a painted british flag on one front panel & a "GB" on
the other.  This seem like alot for a privite car. Is it possible that
it was a special LR which would deserve more careful research?  Could it
be an old Camel racer?  If anyone has seen or know what this LR is mark
for please let me know so I can forward your info to him.  I believe the
109 came from the Atlanta area.

Regards & Thanks,
 Rob Davis_Chicago

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:44:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Lucas Varity

And Lucas Varity just announced they have a contract to provide advanced
braking systems for small GM vehicles. This conjures up visions of more
Lucas jokes. "The Prince of Skidmarks"?

------------------------------

From: "Mark Freeman" <mfreeman@iland.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:40:18 -0600
Subject: Hand Winch Source

Regarding the selection of hand winches I would recommend Power Puller.  I
have had one for 20 years and it's great.  Its made of cast iron and comes
with 40' of 5/16 cable and a hook/roller that allow double line pulling.  I
think they sell for around $130.  They are made by Wyeth-Scott Company in
Newark Ohio (614) 345-4528.  I don't know if Wyeth-Scott sell directly but
they can direct you to a retailer.

Best Regards, 

Mark Freeman
1997 Disco
Several Series III's in various stages of (dis)repair

I'm looking for a winch (for a 1988 Range Rover), but the expense of an
electric winch is a bit much.  I've recently read of hand winches (Trifor
and Brano) which "can also do anything a power winch can do, but are more
versatile."
Has anyone out there used one?  And more importantly does anyone know where
I could find a good one?

Thanks
Gene
1988 Range Rover
Eugene_Spagnuolo@IBM.net

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:53:00 -0500
Subject: True Brits

How far back do we want to go with our heritage. I think the true Brits, as
in the Britons, all moved to Wales and took cover behind Offa's Dyke (If
it's politically correct to call her that these days) when the Romans moved
in. Are there any Welsh car makers?

Trevor (From the welsh. Trefor) Easton (Probably from Estonia)

BTW is that a Welsh hand winch? Trifor?

------------------------------

From: b.boehlers@olsy.dk (Bent Boehlers)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:46:49 +0200
Subject: RE: A question of LR history

car4doc[SMTP:car4doc@concentric.net] wrote:
Hi All,
 Well a friend is questioning the history of his 1967 NADA 109.  He is
new to being a Land rover owner & has noticed several odd things about
his new project.  On the outside of the drivers door is several rivited
flag plates attached to thejust below the edge of the door.  They do not
look like PO work but professional installion.  There is also decals
which look to be applied to the original dash & as old.  On the front
fenders there is a painted british flag on one front panel & a "GB" on
the other.  This seem like alot for a privite car. Is it possible that
it was a special LR which would deserve more careful research?  Could it
be an old Camel racer?  If anyone has seen or know what this LR is mark
for please let me know so I can forward your info to him.  I believe the
109 came from the Atlanta area.
No, not Camel, that started in the mid eighties.
The flag and "GB" sounds more like the way the british army has marked their 
vehicles in the vestern europe NATO forces.

Good luck with the project

Bent Boehlers
Denmark

X-deleted-begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT

	[Attachment WINMAIL.DAT removed, was 45 lines.]	end

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:08:06 +0000
Subject: Re: True Brits

Not really.  Some tried to fight the Romans (the Ordivicies and Silurians
come to mind - both Welsh tribes), but fell to the inevitable.
Celtic tribes mixed quite well with the Romans, although there were two
uprisings of note.
Bodicca's being the most famous (typical SE bias), but Carthamunda's was
possibly better planned.  Seeing what happened to the Ords. and Silurians,
Carthamunda made a pact between the Brigantes (covering much of N.England)
and the Romans. Hence the tribes inbetween didn't really have much choice
than to accept the Overlords. (the Brigantes were one of the larger
tribes).   Carthamunda then built up her forces before leading the
uprising. She also poisonedd her husband, so she perhaps wasn't the most
trustworthy of people.

The Celts (=Britons) took over when the Romans left.
The idea of groups being pushed out (into Wales or wherever) isn't quite
right. Modern thinking goes for more of people accepting the newer
cultures. Eg. the English language was born when the Viking and Anglo Saxon
peoples met - eg. in markets,etc. This new "language of the people"
absorbed a lot of the background Celt.  This was because the Celts were
still there!

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca on 04/02/98 01:53:00 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  True Brits

How far back do we want to go with our heritage. I think the true Brits, as
in the Britons, all moved to Wales and took cover behind Offa's Dyke (If
it's politically correct to call her that these days) when the Romans moved
in. Are there any Welsh car makers?
Trevor (From the welsh. Trefor) Easton (Probably from Estonia)
BTW is that a Welsh hand winch? Trifor?

------------------------------

From: "Kristofer Swanson" <inducsys@westworld.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:33:49 -0800
Subject: SCLR Land Rover 50th Anniversary Bash

The Southern California Land Rovers presents a Land Rover 50th anniversary
bash

Please join the Southern California Land Rovers at the Hungry Valley State
Vehicle Recreation Area near Gorman, CA on Saturday, April 18, 1998 to
celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Land Rover marquee! We have reserved
the 4WD-test area at Hungry Valley so you can test your mettle in a
controlled and safe environment. Club members will be on hand to assist
you, and help show you some of the capabilities of your Land Rover. We will
be having a barbecued lunch supplied by a great local restaurant for a
modest charge of $10 for club members, $15 for non-members and $5 for
children under 12. In the morning, we will have a light trail ride,
suitable for drivers of any skill level, followed by lunch. After lunch, we
will have a more challenging trail ride. 

Saturday schedule of events
8:00am-11:30am Test Area Open
10:00am-11:00am Trail Ride
11:00am-1:00pm Lunch
12:30pm-2:30pm Test Area Open
1:30pm-4:30pm Trail Ride moderate difficulty

The Hungry Valley State Vehicle Recreation area is located near Gorman,
north of Los Angles. Take the 5 (Golden State) freeway NORTH, to the Smokey
Bear Road exit. Turn LEFT at the bottom of the exit ramp and go under the
freeway. At the intersection turn LEFT, then make an immediate RIGHT, and
turn onto a dirt road. Follow signs to the Hungry Valley SVRA. Once there,
you will see the Land Rover banner at the 4WD-test area.

The State of California charges a $4 fee to enter the SVRA. We may travel
outside the SVRA and into the national forest. . If we do, a daily or
yearly adventure pass is now required. Fees may be paid at the SVRA
entrance.

The SCLR is offering to adopt trails in the hungry valley / Mt. Pinos area.
We have had a promising response from the forest service. There are several
trails that are in need of adoption. Please come to hungry valley and help
show your support. 

Please RSVP before Monday 4/13 to George Swetland, email to
pointman@home.com or phone: (800) 522-6317 or to find out more information,
check our club web site calendar of events at sclr.org

Southern California land rover

------------------------------

From: Bob Watson <bobw@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:43:02 -0800 
Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Electric winches are indeed more costly than hand winches, but not so much
as you might think. Also, after pulling your vehicle out with a hand winch,
once or twice, you'll kick yourself for being so "thrifty". 

Cost:
first remember that most electric winches have on the order of 100' (30m) of
cable to reach an anchor point, for a hand winch, you'll need, in addition
to the winch, sufficient rigging chains and/or cables to reach an anchor in
addition to the winch itself. Also if the winch is of limited pull, (e.g. a
hi-lift jack, come-along, etc.) you'll need some extra chains to allow
re-rigging the winch/jack to get more than the initial 3-6' of pull. In
other words, by the time you've made the hand winch setup anywhere close to
comparable to an electric winch, it terms of reach and pull, you've spent a
fair chunk-o-change.

Time:
I rigged up my 5' hi-lift as a winch to see how long it would take to pull
the length of my car (Disco) which is about 20' long. The initial setup,
took 10 minutes (after spending 30 minutes figuring out the best way to do
it) that got me 3.5' of pull after taking up the slack in the chains, etc.
It then took 10 minutes to re-rig the setup to get another 3.5 feet. So, I'm
into it over 30 minutes and made a total of 7'. (where I gave up due to a
sore back) Assuming I didn't die of exhaustion, figure an average pull speed
of 14 feet per HOUR. (remember that when you get stuck in the field, your
brain turns to mush, so things will take longer and exhaustion will set in
sooner)

Repeating the same experiement with the electric winch: 5 minutes to unspool
the cable and attach it to the anchor, 1minute to wind up 20' of cable and
another 5 minutes to put it all away. So the TOTAL time spent for 20' of
pull was 11 minutes. The electric winch is rated at 5 feet per MINUTE or 300
feet per hour. (plus no sore back)

So the bottom line is, if you think you'll be needing a winch at all get a
power one, the hand ones are handy as an auxillary. Otherwise, make sure you
don't skip any trips to the gym!

--Bob W
'95 Disco (w/ Warn XD-9000 powered by dual Optima batteries)

------------------------------

From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:02:09 EST
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In a message dated 4/2/98 9:50:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, bobw@microsoft.com
writes:

<< I rigged up my 5' hi-lift as a winch to see how long it would take to pull
 the length of my car (Disco) which is about 20' long. The initial setup,
 took 10 minutes (after spending 30 minutes figuring out the best way to do
 it) that got me 3.5' of pull after taking up the slack in the chains, etc.
 It then took 10 minutes to re-rig the setup to get another 3.5 feet. So, I'm
 into it over 30 minutes and made a total of 7'. (where I gave up due to a
 sore back) Assuming I didn't die of exhaustion, figure an average pull speed
 of 14 feet per HOUR. >>

My experience is similiar, but I would not use my hi lift for this purpose
unless I had to.  I have a 2 ton hand winch that is limited by cable length
but I would guess I can go no faster than 60 feet per hour with perfectly
placed anchor points.  The hand winch I  use has mechanical advantage enough
that my 6 year old daughter was able to pull  it a time or two.

Nate

------------------------------

From: Paul Wakefield - Serco <Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:07:07 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Eh ? What is this military bumper ?

: LT J Jackson wrote
: I've got a stock bumper (and it's new, so I don't want to replace it 
: with a military one.  But I do regret not buying the military bumper when I 
: did the frameover).   

What is this military bumper ? I have an Ex-Mil SIII, but I think my front 
bumper is stock.

The only external aesthetic difference I have noticed between this and the 
military one is the small overriders attached just above each end of the bumper 
and below the headlights. 

Have I got this completely wrong ?

Cheers,

Paul.

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:12:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Eh ? What is this military bumper ?

I think the military ones are heavier duty - heavier gauge.

Mine's galvanised - but I guess they all are.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

Paul.Wakefield@esrin.esa.it on 04/02/98 04:07:07 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Eh ? What is this military bumper ?

: LT J Jackson wrote
: I've got a stock bumper (and it's new, so I don't want to replace it
: with a military one.  But I do regret not buying the military bumper when
I
: did the frameover).
What is this military bumper ? I have an Ex-Mil SIII, but I think my front
bumper is stock.
The only external aesthetic difference I have noticed between this and the
military one is the small overriders attached just above each end of the
bumper
and below the headlights.
Have I got this completely wrong ?
Cheers,
Paul.

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:22:24 EST
Subject: RE: A question of LR (CT) history

In a message dated 4/2/98 9:09:44 AM, you wrote:

>No, not Camel, that started in the mid eighties.

A bit earlier than that wasn't it? I recall seeing an "original" CT SIII 88 in
LRO a while back, and though it may have been a lookalike, and also a final-
run SIII, I still think that CT started in the 70s. Anyone know fer shure?

pat
93  110

------------------------------

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:27:46 +0200
Subject: Re: True Brits

Welsh car manufacturers?

Lland Rover?
Llamborghini
Cwysler
Llexus

That's four at least!

:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:37:42 +0000
Subject: Re: True Brits

Don't forget   Fforde's  Ffiesta

And there's Ffiat    (the Welsh Language has a surprising number of Latin
bits in it - eg. "Pont" for bridge...)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 Ffr)

channel6@post2.tele.dk on 04/02/98 04:27:46 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: True Brits

Welsh car manufacturers?
Lland Rover?
Llamborghini
Cwysler
Llexus
That's four at least!
:-)
Adrian Redmond
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:35:00 EST
Subject: Speaking of manual winches...

Here's a setup yet to be tried... sorta like a PTO Capstan setup, only it is
carbo-powered.

While at a 2nd hand marine equipment dealer, I noticed they had a pair of
primary genoa winches from a maxi-sloop (old Kialoa). These are (400mm dia)
Barient winches mounted on integral "coffee grinder" bases. Mount it on the
front bumper, climb up there and grind away, there's room for two if you have
a spare body sitting around. Reverse handle direction for 3 speeds. Or just
put it in a living room and use as a floor lamp.

I've looked around the internet, and manual winches don't seem to be very
available here in the US...

--pat.
93  110
w/ winch powered by Energizer Bunny ;-)

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:42:45 +0000
Subject: Re: True Brits

Fforde's  Gwynadia

The Ddatsyn

Llan Wrova   (we had than one?
Ddefenda
Daewoo

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:45:32 -0800 
Subject: Phil the Greek.

	>Queen Elizabeth II married a Greek. He has a reputation for
being a bit
	xenophobic - although I don't think I've heard him criticise the
Greeks
	yet.<

	Actually, the only thing Greek about Prince Phillip is his
title.  He is very much a German by blood.  And very closely related to
the Romanov's of Russia.  His blood was used as a sample to prove by DNA
analysis that the skeletons dug up in Russia were those of the last
Romanov Tzar & his family.

	All European royalty is so inter married that ethnic & national
titled mean very little.

	Queen Elizabeth & Prince Phillip are actually quite closely
related - 2nd or third cousins or some such...might explain some of the
offspring ;-)

	Paul in Victoria.

------------------------------

From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:48:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Bob Watson wrote:

> Time:
 I rigged up my 5' hi-lift as a winch to see how long it would take to pull
 the length of my car (Disco) which is about 20' long. The initial setup,
 took 10 minutes (after spending 30 minutes figuring out the best way to do
 it) that got me 3.5' of pull after taking up the slack in the chains,
etc.
 It then took 10 minutes to re-rig the setup to get another 3.5 feet. So, I'm
 into it over 30 minutes and made a total of 7'. (where I gave up due to a
 sore back) Assuming I didn't die of exhaustion, figure an average pull speed
 of 14 feet per HOUR. (remember that when you get stuck in the field, your
 brain turns to mush, so things will take longer and exhaustion will set in
> sooner)

Just a week or so ago, I got asked if I would go pull a J**P out of a
hole.  We drove off to go take a look.  To make a long story short, I
messed up, and put the Land-Rover in quagmire.  Mud to the top of front
wheels, and two-thirds of the rear.  It took the two of us nearly five
hours to pull it out with my 4' Hi-Lift.  I probably wouldn't have been
able to use a front mounted winch in this case.  There wasn't anywhere to
put it, and it would have been under the mud level.

David

------------------------------

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:52:22 +0200
Subject: Re: True Brits

Ahh, you mean the Pontyac?

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:52:55 +0000
Subject: Re: Phil the Greek.

>    Actually, the only thing Greek about Prince Phillip is his
>title.  He is very much a German by blood.  And very closely related to
Title = "Duke of Edinburgh"  :-)

>    All European royalty is so inter married that ethnic & national
>titled mean very little.
yes, which was my later point.   (haemaphilia being the common example)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:50:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: FC101 -  Now I've seen everything!!

Ron writes,
 
 At the 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats in Canberra, there was a FC101 doing
 burnouts.  The 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats No. 11 mag has a photo.  I've
 scanned it and can send it to anyone interested.  It's 18kb in JPEG format.
 I won't post it to my web pages.
 
 Don't ask me how he kept the front wheels of the 101 stationery whilst
 burning rubber at the rear - after all, it is a constant 4WD - at least it
 should be.
 

Ron, 

   Could you please forward that pic to me. Thanks.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
mfredett@ichips.intel.com
3-101FC's    

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:55:09 +0000
Subject: Re: True Brits

>Ahh, you mean the Pontyac?
>Adrian Redmond
Shouldn't that be hyphenated to "Pont-Y-C"  ?    :-)

I did my undergrad dissertation based out of "Pont-Y-Pant", near "Pont
Rufenig" (="Roman Bridge" - although there's no evidence of a Roman bridge
- or any Roman presence in that valley)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

channel6@post2.tele.dk on 04/02/98 04:52:22 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: True Brits

Ahh, you mean the Pontyac?
Adrian Redmond
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:54:54 EST
Subject: Managing under bonnet hot air... (V8)

This morning I was changing headlight bulbs. I noticed that the black plastic
fascia surrounds were chipped and cracked around the holes for the sidelights.
Also, the plastic wire connector for the headlamps had some brittleness on
some parts. I figured it was from heat. I pulled off the side lights, plastic
surround and headlamps. With everything hanging out the front, I let the
engine idle and had the lamps on high. After 30 minutes, the electrical
connectors were still normal, but the metal bucket the headlamp sits in was
much hotter. Also, hot air was blowing out the holes for the sidelights. So, I
figure that the rotation of the fan throws hot air around the engine
compartment and it blows on the headlight area, causing it to seep out the
cracks and spaces around the lights, making the plastic brittle and all.
(reminiscent of Marin Faure's brake reservoir) The NAS 110 has two plastic
grilles on top of the wings. The RH side is an inlet for the heater/a/c system
and the LH one is open to let air pass. The rest of the air has to blow under
the vehicle and make its own way out. I'm thinking it is adequate for sitting
in traffic on tarmac, but how about when up to the axles & chassis rails in
mud? How much room will there be down there for the fan to blow hot air away?

I'm planning on getting those alu. wing top protectors. A metal shop told be
to make a paper pattern and they'd cut me a pair. So, (maybe) I'm going to get
them to perforate a section and cut away the wing below (maybe)and let that
help vent the hot air? I also thought about putting in a vent somewhere on the
bonnet edges, but then the bonnet would look like a MG TD's! 

Another option is to get the wing sides from R.O.W. spec TDI's, they have vent
holes on one side or the other for the engine air intake. I'd just leave the
grilles there, and let them pass some hot air (I'd name them  "congressional
vents"). I know the recent TDIs have the hole on the RH panel. Anyone know
what years the intake was on the LH panel?

looking for ideas

pat
93  110

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:58:51 -0800 
Subject: RE: Speaking of manual winches...

Manual sailboat winches are nice but you won't same much money over an
electric winch.

A good dual speed Genoa winch runs at least $1500.00!  And that doesn't
even include a winch handle or Genoa sheet.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
1983 Bavarian Motor Works 533i
1974 Calalina 27 (with single speed winches)
Victoria, BC  Canada

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:18:54 -0500
Subject: Hand winches

Nate wrote:
>I have used a 2 ton hand winch to pull a non functioning car with flat tires
>up a muddy incline.  I had to pull it about 60 feet.  It was slow but not
>hard.  The main problem with hand winches is that there's a very limited
>amount of cable on them.

That's the "cultural" difference between the US and the UK...in the US,
'comealongs' are self-contained and usually limited to 5 to 10' pulls.  The
Tirfor and Brano winches use pawls to grip anwhere on a cable and the only
limitation is how much cable you care to carry.  The cable has to be in
fairly good nick, tho'. They also use metric diameter cable and typical US
dimensional cables won't work....  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:20:56 -0500
Subject: Lucas

Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com> wrote:

>And quite recently the remanufacturing division in UK was bought by World
>Wide Automotive a remanufacuring firm in VA, US.

Right here in Hampton, Virginia.  When it opened, it was billed as Lucas
*Aerospace*.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Speaking of manual winches...

IM(not so)HO-

        Manual winches are quaint, retro, good exersize and godawful slow.
Been there, done that! After about ten years of killing myself, I went to
power. If you are a light or moderate duty 'wheeler, a hand winch is a nice
backup. If you wheel a lot and are in harms way (meaning you WILL get
stuck), a power operated winch is the only way. Besides, a Tirfor &
necessary gear costs as much as a cheap electric. PTOs or hydraulic are a
good compromise if you want to trade funk for some functionality.
        Another thing to bear in mind.  If you are in a club (unless they
are fellow "flat-earthers"), I would recommend against whipping out your
manual winch on a run, and taking an hour to recover yourself. Especially
when 5 minutes with an electric winch or a strap would have you out. The
club will not be happy. Been there, done that.

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:49:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Lucas

Sandy writes
 
 And quite recently the remanufacturing division in UK was bought by World
 Wide Automotive a remanufacuring firm in VA, US.
 
 Right here in Hampton, Virginia.  When it opened, it was billed as Lucas
 *Aerospace*.
 
And just to put this in perspective, Lucas "Aerospace" were the folks who
designed/installed the wonderful (sic) high speed baggage handling system
at Denver's new airport. At astronomical cost overruns, and several years
behind schedule, when it worked at all, it did a great job of chewing your
luggage to shreds at high speed. Hilarious to watch, suitcases wizzing by
and every 3rd or 4th one torn open, sqashed, or otherwise mangled. Your
tax dollars at work. Just poetic justice to have the newest, most modern
international airport's baggage system depending on Lucas to to do the job.
I think they eventually abandoned most of it, any listers in Colorado know?

Rgds
Mike Fredette
3-101FC's
Portland, Or.

------------------------------

From: tomills@du.edu
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:00:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Lucas

Mike Fredette writes: 

[ And just to put this in perspective, Lucas "Aerospace" were the folks who
[ designed/installed the wonderful (sic) high speed baggage handling system
[ at Denver's new airport. 

Sorry, but BAe of Land Rover infamy, and BAE of Denver baggage infamy are 
totally unrelated.  Gotta be fair to the Brits:  they've never been that bad.
(BAE is a Texas firm, and its original Denver design problems seem to be 
fixed now.  DIA's bad start is history.)

T. F. Mills
tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

------------------------------

From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Date: 2 Apr 1998 12:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re-  Brake Problems

Thanks for all the response on my locking rear brakes.  The winner: 
Misadjusted (too loose) front cams.   

I can't believe I didn't figure that out myself.  If I had just drank one more
beer, I bet I would have.

Jeff

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:04:44 EST
Subject: Re:  Bouncing mail, am I the only one?

Anyone getting bouncing mail from this list address: <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>?

 I think it is Huub's address but I'm not so sure...

Here's what the autoreply said:

----- The following addresses have delivery notifications -----
<hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>  (unrecoverable error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 Too many hops 29 (25 max): from <SPYDERS@aol.com> via fs1-tbdh.azr.nl, to
<hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>

--pat.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:14:29 -0800 
Subject: RE: Bouncing mail, am I the only one?

	>Anyone getting bouncing mail from this list address:
<hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>?

Yup, seems to be bouncing back to the whole list.

Paul.

------------------------------

From: garnold@clvm.clarkson.edu (Guy Arnold)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:36:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Moscow, Idaho

Are there any landrover owners on the list in the Moscow,Idaho-Pullman,
Washington area? I am going to be there April 16-18 and would like to talk
rovers and have a pint with a fellow nut. I would also like to pick your
brain about the area. Thanks in advance.
Guy E Arnold
1973 Series III swb "Green Machine"
1960 MGA 1600 roadster

------------------------------

From: alan moore <amoore@teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:22:45 -0800
Subject: Rovers Under Fire in Oregon

Greetings:

Recently, Oregon Trout, the Pacific Northwest's premier wild fish non-profit
organization, announced a fund raiser in which we would raffle off a 1998
Discovery. Tickets are $100 with a minimum of 350 and max of 750 to be sold.
The local weekly, Willamette Week, in its infinite ignorance, was quick to
publicly criticize us for aligning with "one of the most heinous
contributors to global warming" and tabbed us the "Rogue of the Week." All
of this set off a war of words between the paper and local reps from Land
Rover Portland. Even with all of this attention, ticket sales have been
slow, and we need help. If there is a way you could post our event on your
page we would be most grateful. Also, any advice you might have to help make
our event a success would be welcome. Details on the raffle are available at
the Oregon Trout website: www.ortrout.org. Feel free to e-mail me at home
or at info@ortrout.org. Thanks so much and happy roving!

Alan Moore
Communications Coordinator, Oregon Trout
503-222-9091
 

------------------------------

From: garnold@clvm.clarkson.edu (Guy Arnold)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:47:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Moscow, Idaho

Are there any landrover owners from the list who live in the Moscow, Idaho
or Pullman, Washington area? I will be in Moscow  on April 16-18 and would
like to talk rovers and tip a pint or two. I would also like to pick your
brain about the area.
Guy E Arnold
1973 Series III swb
1960 MGA 1600 roadster

------------------------------

From: MRogers315 <MRogers315@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:02:49 EST
Subject: Re- Hand Winches

Eugene 
>I'm looking for a winch (for a 1988 Range Rover), but the expense of an
>electric winch is a bit much.  I've recently read of hand winches (Trifor

I have owned a second hand Tirfor for six years and love it. I have only used
it once for self recovery and then it was invaluable, had to recover backwards
so a front mounted winch would have been useless. It has all sorts of other
uses such as, engine hoist, bumper straitener, tree trunk remover, dead weight
shifting, or loading dead vehicles onto transporters. The best bit is that I
only have to cart it around when I am likely to need it ie; when I intend
driving off road. The rest of the time it sits in my workshop clean and dry
(eccept for a little oil). Being a "pull through" cable type it does not have
the limitations of drum size or layering reduction and is compact to
transport.

IMHO it ranks equal to the High Lift jack as the off roaders friend (you still
need the high lift to remove the ground anchors after winching)

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:52:02 +1000
Subject: Ironically, Another British-Made/Owned Car

Brian Willoughby wrote...lots

All well said and I think, on reflection, I have to agree.

Ron

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:49:05 +1000
Subject: Hand Winches

Gene Spagnuolo wrote:

>I've recently read of hand winches (Trifor and Brano) which "can
>also do anything a power winch can do, but are more versatile."
>Has anyone out there used one

Yes, I had to pull a loaded 80 series LC out of sand when I did the Sydney
LC 4WD Driver Training Course (I was still a member at the time).  And it
was bloody hard work!  They will take you a month of Sundays
to get a car out of a bog with one.

But, if you are bogged, you ain't got anything else to do.....  And, they
will work when your battery is flat or your motor is wet.

Where to buy one?  Well, 4wd shops in Australia *but* also check out
engineering supply firms or toolshops that sell lathes, welders etc.  They
also stock them in Oz - dunno about the USA.  I've also seen a Tirfor at my
local 2nd hand Shop (it might still be there).
Ron

------------------------------

From: Sski3 <Sski3@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:05:57 EST
Subject: Colors

Any color is OK if you will maintain it, waxing cleaning, etc. But if your
just going to paint and forget then go with a diff color. Look at neglected
paint jobs as you drive and you'll see which colors are the worst. Oxidation
is the culprit along with the sun. The closer you get to the equator the
quicker the paint will go,also rubber products are affected. The answer to the
2nd question is white ,black ,grey, but who wants that on a series?

Steve F
SIIA 69  Lt green
SIIA 65  dark green

------------------------------

From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:24:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FC101- Now I've seen everything

Ron Beckett are you out there?

 Ron writes,
 
 At the 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats in Canberra, there was a FC101 doing
 burnouts.  The 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats No. 11 mag has a photo.  I've
 scanned it and can send it to anyone interested.  It's 18kb in JPEG format.
 I won't post it to my web pages.
 
 Don't ask me how he kept the front wheels of the 101 stationery whilst
 burning rubber at the rear - after all, it is a constant 4WD - at least it
 should be.
 

Ron, 

   Could you please forward that pic to me. Thanks.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
mfredett@ichips.intel.com
3-101FC's    

------------------------------

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 2 Apr 1998 20:32:38 -0000
Subject: Discovery Raffle

Forwarded without recommendation or comment, questions to info@ortrout.org
> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:20:15 -0800
> Subject: Rovers Under Fire in Portland
> From: alan moore <amoore@teleport.com>

Bill:

Recently, Oregon Trout, the Pacific Northwest's premier wild fish non-profit
organization, announced a fund raiser in which we would raffle off a 1998
Discovery. Tickets are $100 with a minimum of 350 and max of 750 to be sold.
The local weekly, Willamette Week, in its infinite ignorance, was quick to
publicly criticize us for aligning with "one of the most heinous
contributors to global warming" and tabbed us the "Rogue of the Week." All
of this set off a war of words between the paper and local reps from Land
Rover Portland. Even with all of this attention, ticket sales have been
slow, and we need help. If there is a way you could post our event on your
page we would be most grateful. Also, any advice you might have to help make
our event a success would be welcome. Details on the raffle are available at
the Oregon Trout website: www.ortrout.org. Feel free to e-mail me at home
or at info@ortrout.org. Thanks so much and happy rovering!

Alan Moore
Communications Coordinator, Oregon Trout
503-222-9091
 

------------------------------

From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:48:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hand Winch Source

>Regarding the selection of hand winches I would recommend Power Puller.  I
>have had one for 20 years and it's great.  Its made of cast iron and comes
>with 40' of 5/16 cable and a hook/roller that allow double line pulling.  I
>think they sell for around $130.  They are made by Wyeth-Scott Company in
>Newark Ohio (614) 345-4528.  I don't know if Wyeth-Scott sell directly but
>they can direct you to a retailer.
Thanks for the great info. but like someone said, doing it by hand is fine
but to get it done really well you have to go for something electric.  I
think it was one of Dave B's female friends who said this but I could be
wrong..

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

------------------------------

From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:01:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Rovers Under Fire in Oregon

>Greetings:
>Recently, Oregon Trout, the Pacific Northwest's premier wild fish non-profit
>organization, announced a fund raiser in which we would raffle off a 1998
>Discovery. Tickets are $100 with a minimum of 350 and max of 750 to be sold.
>The local weekly, Willamette Week, in its infinite ignorance, was quick to
>publicly criticize us for aligning with "one of the most heinous
>contributors to global warming" and tabbed us the "Rogue of the Week."

Do you have an E-mail address for the Willamette Week?? I'd love to send
them a bit of a message.  Maybe others on the list could do the same....:)

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:17:55 -0800 
Subject: RE: Rovers Under Fire in Oregon - Willamette Week Address

Try

http://www.wweek.com/

Editor: Mark Zusman, mzusman@wweek.com

Paul.

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:41:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Fairey capstan shear pins

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@primail.pr.cyanamid.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 98 10:25:38 EST
Subject: fairey capstan shear pins

Folks-

>Bought some new shear pins from Superwinch in the UK recently
(NOT cheap, especially when you throw in the shipping...) for
my Fairey capstan.  US Superwinch dopes say "a cap what?" when I tell
them it isn't and electric winch and explain it's crank driven...
needless to say, they don't stock shear pins for Fairey capstans,
and they even go so far as to say "you can't get them anymore."

Within the past year I bought four or five new pins for the Fairey
Capstan Rescue Model winch I installed on my Series III not long after I
bought it new in 1973.  I also bought a new starting pin, which is the
heavy steel pin that you put in place of the shear pin if you want to
start the engine with the little hand crank that comes with the winch.
I bought the pins from either Rovers North or Atlantic British and I
recall they were quite inexpensive.

>BUT, these new shear pins aren't the same as the ones I had
obtained with the winch...considerably fatter, and I fear these
may be 6000lb pins, despite that they say "4 0" across the head
just like the ones I had do (presumably, this indicates a 4000lb
shear pin).

I was not aware there was a 6K pound version of the Fairey Capstan, but
maybe there is.  However, the shear strength is going to vary with the
material the pin is made out of, so it's entirely possible that a pin
made of a milder metal needs to be thicker to provide 4K pounds of
strength.  Unless someone made a mistake, which is certainly possible, I
suspect the fact your pins are stamped "4" means they are in actuality
4K pins, regardless of how thick they might be.

>ps a side note...I've been blowing through the original thin
pins like butta-maybe the new ones are the ones I'm supposed to
have had to begin with.

The life of the shear pins is pretty directly related to the way you
engage the winch, the way you play the line, and of course, the load
itself.  Back in 1977 we pulled a Jeep CJ-5 out of a lake in the Yukon
with the capstan winch on my Land Rover.  We had to pull the Jeep, which
had landed on its wheels in about 4 feet of water after coming loose
from the back of a motorhome, backwards across the lakebed about 100
feet  to the bottom of a steep 30-foot bluff, and then up the bluff to
the road on top.  The only time we had a problem was when the Jeep
approached our level at the top of the steep bluff, at which point we
started pulling the Jeep into the bluff instead of up it.  It took a
passing pickup truck to hook onto the Jeep and help us pull it over the
top.  I checked the pin after this incident and it had been cut about
1/4 of the way through.

While you are supposed to engage the winch by pulling the dog clutch
handle forward with the engine at tickover, I don't do this as I have
the idle of my engine set quite high at 750 rpm.  I stop the engine,
engage the winch, and then start the engine.  This avoids the shock
against the pin of engaging the dog clutch to a moving crank pulley.

Also because my capstan winch is Fairey's Rescue model, which was made
for the UK coastal rescue forces to use pulling people in stretchers up
the sides of cliffs, it has a smooth drum instead of a drum with the
molded in ridges.  While I have to take an extra turn on my winch to get
the same grip as the ribbed winch, the smooth drum greatly reduces the
shock of taking up slack and also makes it much easier to control the
speed at which the line comes in or out, which of course is what you
want if you are hoisting an injured person up a cliff face.  It's very
easy to let the load back out because the line slides backwards so
easily around the smooth-surface drum even when its turning.  The other
advantage of the Rescue model is that it has an opening fairlead, so you
don't have to pass the end of the line under the roller.  You just open
the roller and drop the line at whatever point you want to start your
pull.

I've never had a shear pin let go on me except when I forgot to replace
it before hand-cranking the engine either to start it or to adjust the
valves, in which case the shear pin broke immediately.  But I have found
them sliced through quite deeply after a long or heavy pull.  Perhaps
the thicker 4K pins you just purchased were made thicker to combat this
tendency to be cut through in the course of a normal winching job.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:16:39 -0300
Subject: Re: Managing under bonnet hot air... (V8)

On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com> wrote:
 I know the recent TDIs have the hole on the RH panel. Anyone know
>what years the intake was on the LH panel?

It changed from left to right with the change from 200 to 300 Tdi in 1994. ROW 
300 LRs have cutouts in both wings, with a plastic grille in the right and a 
plastic blank plate in the left.

Allan. 

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:10:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Ironically, Another British-Made/Owned Car

BRIAN WILLOUGHBY wrote:
> It seems as if everyone has forgotten about one of my favourite English
> cars, Bristol.  What's so ironic about this manufacturer of exotic GTs?
> Well, it seems that early Bristols were nothing more than pre-war BMWs,
> complete with Bimmer's unique inline six, built in Britain.  As war
> reparations, the Bristol Aeroplane Company was given the blueprints to the
> BMW 327 and, coincidentally, the Russians were given BMW motocycle designs
> which are still in production under the name of Ural.  Someone on the list
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 35 lines)]
> Sounds to me as if it is concerned with keeping them alive.
> Brian
 
How would Americans feel if the Japanese bought the Dodgers?

 John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:20:04 -0400
Subject: Re: BMW etc.

Adrian Redmond wrote:
> If you ask me we should have kept Land Rover, Jaguar and Rolls, and let
> the beemers have our royal family - it would have been a much better
> deal. After all, a 40 year old series 1 is not half as tatty as Betty
> Windsor and Co.
> :-)
> Adrian Redmond

AS someone from Stratford upon Avon might have said "there is some thing
rotten in the State of Denmark" !!!

 John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Shaun Oriold <soriold@worldchat.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:14:56 -0500
Subject: Re: FC101- Now I've seen everything

If you could send me a copy it would be great.
        soriold@worldchat.com

Thank you

Michael Fredette wrote:

> Ron Beckett are you out there?
>  Ron writes,
>  At the 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats in Canberra, there was a FC101 doing
>  burnouts.  The 1997 Street Machine Summer Nats No. 11 mag has a photo.  I've
>  scanned it and can send it to anyone interested.  It's 18kb in JPEG format.
>  I won't post it to my web pages.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
> mfredett@ichips.intel.com
> 3-101FC's

------------------------------

From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:24:50 -0400
Subject: Re: A question of LR history

car4doc wrote:
> Hi All,
>  Well a friend is questioning the history of his 1967 NADA 109.  He is
> new to being a Land rover owner & has noticed several odd things about
> his new project.  On the outside of the drivers door is several rivited
> flag plates attached to thejust below the edge of the door.  They do not
> look like PO work but professional installion.  There is also decals
> which look to be applied to the original dash & as old.  On the front
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> Regards & Thanks,
>  Rob Davis_Chicago

This predates the Camel trophy by about 15 years. I would suspect it may
have been a British Consular vehicle.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:32:45 -0800 
Subject: Paul's new  Rover web page.

O.K.

I've set up my own web page  finally.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4954/

I hope to add more pictures and links after this weekend (I'm borrowing
a digital camera from work)
The purpose of the page will be to aid in my asking and answering of
questions on this list with the help of  references to pictures on the
page.

So far, only one B&W image of my 1961 SWB as it looked when I picked it
up last summer.

If you would like me to add a link to your page, let me know...
I'm also open to suggestions.

I'm new to HTML so this is a learning experience!

Ps I'm sorry for all of the adds on the page but that is Geocities way
of paying for their 'free' service.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria, BC  Canada
Now on the WEB at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/4954/

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:15:06 -0500
Subject: 109 rear shoes

Peter, 
look closely at the shoes, put them all side by side,  the difference
between the end of the shoe and the lining is different for the leading shoe
and the trailing shoe. The steel part is the same, it is only the position
of the lining that differs. If the lining position is the same on all 4
shoes, someone has mixed them up. I have seen where both leading shoes have
been fitted to one side and both trailing shoes on the other, thus it is
difficult to tell the difference unless they are side by side.  If all the
shoes are the same I imagine that this would make adjustment very difficult,
thus making a good pedal hard to achieve.
 The leading shoe is the one with the lining furthest from the cylinder
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: Wesley Harris <wharris@midmon.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:22:25 -0600
Subject: Selectro Guts

Does any one of you crazy kids know if replacement parts are available for
early-ish Selectro hubs?  In a moment of unmitigated dumbassery, I broke a
major piece of one...

Ta, 

Wes

'64 IIA 88" SW

------------------------------

From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 20:24:08 -0500
Subject: BMW

  James Wolf   wrote 
Subject: BMW etc.

Whats all the fuss about Beemers and Brits? I believe the Queen married a
German, that would be Prince Charlie weiner schnizle 8^)

 What do they teach you in school these days.   Our   Queens husband, Prince
Philip,  was born in  Greece  not Germany. Or are you implying that Bill
Clinton, Queen Hilary's husband,  is German ?
 sorry for the non LR content.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:57:37
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Photos

Hi, All,

We at R.O.A.V. web page central have a request to make of digest members.
If you have a couple of photos of past Mid-Atlantic Rallies that you would
like to see on the club web page please send them along with the following
information.

       your name, which (year) Mid-Atlantic, who's in the pic., whose
Land-Rover,
       other pertenent info. your address (mailing).

You will get photo credit, you will still own the copyright and we will pay
return postage.

We could really use photos of the first rally!!!

PLEASE SEND  ONLY PRINTS, DO NOT SEND US YOUR NEGATIVES!!!!!!!! Any size up
to 11x17 is ok, but the smaller 4x6 etc. are best.Make sure that you use
apiece of card board in the package to help prevent bending. Also make
"photos" on the env. thanks

send to

Jim Wolf
450 Mt. Vernon Ave.
Portsmouth, VA 23707

------------------------------

From: lndrvr@ldd.net (BRIAN WILLOUGHBY)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:30:08 -0600
Subject: BMW and interesting observations

The Bavarian Motor Works (BMW) was incorporated in 1917 and originally
produced aeroplanes and aviation motors.  A company that BMW purchased in
1928, the Dixi Works, was already manufacturing Austin Sevens under
license.  The Dixi was BMW's first foray into automobile production and
these little cars did wear the BMW "Blau und Weiss Roundel" for a few years
until it could develop the first "true" BMW automobile.

Coincidentally, it is interesting to note that all three of the companies
we've been discussing over the past few days have strong links to the
aircraft industry.  Rover, I am proud to say, essentially developed the jet
engine as we know it today during the second World War.  Rolls-Royce has
had a long and illustrious history in the world of aviation and continued
the development work that Rover had begun with jets.  Rover, of course,
produced Jet 1, the world's first jet turbine-powered car years prior to
the more famous Chrysler Turbine cars of the mid-1960s.  Imagine if Rover
had continued with with this experimentation and placed a jet turbine in a
Land-Rover!  Talk about a true multi-fuel engine!

Brian

------------------------------

From: robot1@juno.com
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:23:04 -0600
Subject: BMW takeover of Sollihull

Have to take exception to the comment yesterday by Brian:

>BMW is not Ford, which, has decided to travel the
>path of making Jaguars, Aston Martins and Lagondas nothing more than
>badge-engineered Dearborn products

Ford left Jaguar alone where Jaguar was doing a good job. Where Jaguar
wasn't doing a good job, Ford stepped in and inserted, for instance,
reliable electrics, stringent quality control, etc. As a result, the Jag
is the most reliable, best engineered (In Great Britain) luxury
automobile in it's class. A remarkable marriage of production techniques
proven in millions upon millions of Fords, and the hand-built quality and
luxury that is a Jag hallmark. Drive one, if you don't believe it. Or
better yet, find a new jag owner who isn't in love. You probably can't.
BMW is a fine automaker who can not help but introduce good things to
Sollihull, and I'm sure they will. The german propensity towards
bull-headedness (guilty!) will demand it. And if they ever get too high
and mighty, we can always remind them of  their (BMW'S) heritage; anyone
remember the Messerschmit? commonly known as the  isetta in the  usa,
these diminutive beasts 
were rear engined, front doored cars which trapped countless families who
drove them ino blind alleys and parking spots only to find they couldn't
open the front door to get out, and the car had no reverse. The ultimate
driving machine.

Mark

You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 16:09:06 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Hand Winch Source

>Thanks for the great info. but like someone said, doing it by hand is fine 
>but to get it done really well you have to go for something electric.  I 
>think it was one of Dave B's female friends who said this but I could be 
>wrong..

emphasis on "one of"...

DaveB

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 16:24:39 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Hand Winch Source

>Regarding the selection of hand winches I would recommend Power Puller.  I 
>have had one for 20 years and it's great.  Its made of cast iron and comes
  [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
>Newark Ohio (614) 345-4528.  I don't know if Wyeth-Scott sell directly but 
>they can direct you to a retailer.

>Thanks for the great info. but like someone said, doing it by hand is fine 
>but to get it done really well you have to go for something electric.  I 
>think it was one of Dave B's female friends who said this but I could be 
>wrong..

alternative answer:
oh yeah, its always good to have a handi-wench come along for the ride.
Keeps the thigh lift jack from being over extended.
Butt really, electrics are much better. They will get hot after a bit of 
flogging, but its ok as long as you don't ignore the buty cycle.
Just light thumb pressure on the button, don't press too hard or for too long. 
Flick it on and off if it seems to be taking too long. If all else fails you 
cun try a new angle. 
If that get the job done then your cable just ain't long enough, mate...

Ok I think I'm getting a little too much mileage out of this joke...

laid'er
DaveB

------------------------------

From: b.boehlers@olsy.dk (Bent Boehlers)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:47:52 +0200
Subject: RE: A question of LR (CT) history

SPYDERS[SMTP:SPYDERS@aol.com] wrote:

>No, not Camel, that started in the mid eighties.
A bit earlier than that wasn't it? I recall seeing an "original" CT SIII 88 
in
LRO a while back, and though it may have been a lookalike, and also a 
final-
run SIII, I still think that CT started in the 70s. Anyone know fer shure?

I was wrong, it was not the mid eighties, it was eighty. The first Camel 
trophy was a group of Germans, on a privat basis with Camel as sponsor. 
First CT was also run in the groups private offroaders, mostly J**Ps, and 
as I remember NO Land-Rovers.

And now, it is not existing anymore Instead they have used the name for som 
silly competition in canoing, biking and swimming.

The list is found on www.camaltrophy.com under history.

Happy Rovering

Bent Boehlers
Denmark

 YEAR     LOCATION                        WINNER
 1980       Transamazonica                 Germany
 1981       Sumatra                            Germany
 1982       Papua New Guinea              Italy
 1983       Zaire                                   Holland
 1984       Brazil                                  Italy
 1985       Borneo                                Germany
 1986       Australia                              France
 1987       Madagascar                         Italy
 1988       Sulawesi                             Turkey
 1989       The Amazon                        UK
 1990       Siberia-USSR                      Holland
 1991       Tanzania-Burundi                 Turkey
 1992       Guyana                                Switzerland
 1993       Sabah-Malaysia                   USA
 1994       Argentina-Paraguay-Chile      Spain
 1995       Mundo Maya                        Czech Republic
 1996       Kalimantan                           Greece
 1997       Mongolia                              Austria

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------------------------------

From: "John McMaster" <john.chia@mail.ndirect.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:26:34 +0000
Subject: Re: Re- Hand Winches

> I have owned a second hand Tirfor for six years and love it. I have only used
> it once for self recovery and then it was invaluable, had to recover backwards
> so a front mounted winch would have been useless. It has all sorts of other
> uses such as, engine hoist, bumper straitener, tree trunk remover, dead weight
> shifting, or loading dead vehicles onto transporters. 

Too true, I have had an ex-army Tirfor for about 8 years.  Self 
recovered once or twice forwards and XXXXX backwards!!  Again it has 
been an engine hoist and used to lift cast iron radiators up 3 
stories of a house via scaffolding!  It always travels in my ex-mil 
110 in one side of the jerry can holders slot with 2x20m wire ropes 
(second is thimbled both ends). The handle was very useful, before I 
used machine grease, to add leverage to release rusted on wheel 
nuts.

cheers

john

______________________
John McMaster
john@chiaroscuro.co.uk

green/purple 110/Massey Ferguson

------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:09:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Selectro Guts

Does any one of you crazy kids know if replacement parts are available for
early-ish Selectro hubs?  In a moment of unmitigated dumbassery, I broke a
>major piece of one...
Not if you're not in the US,I dont think.They are made by Mile Marker in
Florida??.
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:15:00 +0000
Subject: Re: BMW and interesting observations

>the more famous Chrysler Turbine cars of the mid-1960s.  Imagine if Rover
>had continued with with this experimentation and placed a jet turbine in a
>Land-Rover!  Talk about a true multi-fuel engine!

There was one for sale in the back pages on LROi about a year ago.

Ex-vehicle (presumably one of JET-1's "children"), rather than ex-Vulcan...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Olafur Agust Axelsson <olafura@rhi.hi.is>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 07:16:07 +0000
Subject: Brake pipes!

Hi
Ive heard before that using brake pipes made of copper are not the most
clever thing to do - but I thought since they are selling it - it must be a
OK - so I bought it - I think from Paddocks two years ago and put it under
my 66 88.  But yesterday when trying to shop some more pipes here in
Iceland under my 73 88- the man at the parts-store turned green when I
mentioned copper pipes - and told me stories how I could as easily blow out
birthday balloons and how I could suddenly end up in jail!!

What is it? - is there as such thing as save copper pipes? - if they are
dangerous - why are they selling it?

Olafur Agust

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
olafura@hi.is	    http://www.hi.is/~olafura

"Don't take life so seriously 
		... it's not permanent."

------------------------------

From: b.boehlers@olsy.dk (Bent Boehlers)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:41:36 +0200
Subject: RE: Brake pipes!

Olafur Agust Axelsson[SMTP:olafura@rhi.hi.is] wrote:

<cut >
What is it? - is there as such thing as save copper pipes? - if they are
dangerous - why are they selling it?

"Copper" pipes are not only one kind. You have copper pipes for Your 
central heating in the house, that is soft copper in 10 - 25 mm, NOT usable 
for brakes, it will not hold the pressure. One of the other kinds is not 
pure copper, and is delivered with 4 - 8 mm opening, and thick walls, this 
will do the job. My copper brake pipes have done it for nearly 8 years.
Then there is also another question, that have nothing to do with security. 
What does the law say on Island?

Happy rovering in the worlds best offroad area Springisandur

Bent Boehlers
Denmark

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------------------------------

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:57:34 +0000
Subject: RE: Brake pipes!

>What is it? - is there as such thing as save copper pipes? - if they are
>dangerous - why are they selling it?
Firstly,I dont think its pure copper.Its an alloy of some sort.There may
be a problem at extreme low temperatures.Something to do with the stuff
going brittle.However,Bent should have experienced enough of that sort
of cold,and if his are still OK......

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: b.boehlers@olsy.dk (Bent Boehlers)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:21:49 +0200
Subject: RE: Brake pipes!

Mike Rooth[SMTP:M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk] wrote:

There may
be a problem at extreme low temperatures.Something to do with the stuff
going brittle.However,Bent should have experienced enough of that sort
of cold,and if his are still OK......

I am very OK, and the LR also. It have past the MOT every year without 
problems in this area.

Sorry, but here in Denmark we do not have extreme cold weather. Normaly 
only down to -10 C ( 14 F), and the absolute coldest the car have been 
exposed to is -42 C ( -43.6 F). That was in february some years ago in 
Jotonheimen ( Norway ).

Happy Rovering

Bent Boehlers

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