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Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 13:48:44 +0100
From: Marijn van der Himst <marijn@multiweb.net>
Subject: Re: FFR-wiring

Thank You Richard Marsden, I've recieved the wiring schemes yesterday,
I'm not feeling too well right now, will get back on the subject of
putting up some sort of database.
Scanning stuff is not a problem, however I'll need to build a homepage
first, unless someone else has got enough space on a already know LR-sight
that will be easy to find for all the LR-fans.
Any suggestions: to the Digest, Bill, or rather not?

Marijn.
109'FFR "Winston"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:18:05 -0500
From: john taylor <jht@easynet.on.ca>
Subject: series oil bath filters

Regarding the position of the intake in a dryer area of the engine. Being
the poor unfrotunate who hydrauliced the engine in not so deep water(thanks
Dave for reminding me about this) I had the intake at the back near the
firewall. I figure a wave of water went up the front face of the firewall
into the intake.

John Taylor
sIIa v6 bastard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:48:06 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Carrying on...

Ron Beckett wrote:
> Ron writes:
> She says I have to get rid of some of my other unused hobby stuff e.g., my
> scuba gear, my model planes, model helicopters, model boats, the Hillman
> Gazelles et al.  Hmm, It'd be a wet old drive - it's in Oz. You'd need a
> bloody long snorkel
> Dave Brown responded:
> >Well Ron, maybe you could get rid of the scuba gear at the same time? ;-)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
> So we went and bought a Range Rover.
> Ron Beckett
 
Looks like Elizabeth gets a repreve until the next diesel comes along!!!
     John and Muddy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 09:54:37 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: +ve earth

Ron Beckett wrote:
> Ron Beckett wrote:
> : 1.  the centre terminal of the spark plug was negative with respect to
> : ground.  As anyone with an electronics background in radio valves (tubes
> to
> : NAS readers) can tell you, a hot negative electrode will emit electrons
> much
> : more easily.  e.g., the hot cathode of a radio valve.  Therefore, the
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 31 lines)]
> Why did I open my big mouth.
> Ron

Hot in these terms is relative. The outer electrode will run some what
cooler due to its being closer to the cylinderhead wich acts as a heat
sink. The same priciple applies with hotter or cooler plugs ie, the
cooler ones have a shorter centre electrode.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 08:14:46 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: 7:1 vs 8:1

To All-

After a recent posting, I had several private inquiries regarding how to
tell the difference between 7 and 8:1 heads, so there might be some general
interest. Here's what I know but I am missing some vital info that I have
misplaced. Perhaps someone can help out by filling in the blanks here. In
the meantime, I'll keep looking.

1) Combustion chamber volume. I have lost the exact figures of 7:1 to 8:1
that I tested personally some years ago. I used a formula to calculate the
theoretical chamber volume in ccs but it will vary when you actually cc the
chamber. These figures include ring land and head gasket volumes

        7:1= 95.26cc
        8:1= 81.65cc

2) Head thickness. There is a measurement of total head thickness for the
two heads. I have misplaced these figures but I can calculate that you will
need to remove approximately .083" from the head to raise the CR from 7:1
to 8:1. That would be the approximate difference in thickness between the
two heads but again, actuality is somewhat different. Verify via ccing.
BTW, according the the formulas, you need to mill .116" to go from 7 to
8.5:1 and .145" to go from 7 to 9:1.

3) All engines before 19?? (missing the exact date - 1966 I THINK - someone
help me here) were 7:1. NAS engines after 1967 were 8:1

4) 7:1 heads can be visually identified by looking at the center head bolt
on the manifold side of the engine (it's just outside the rocker cover). It
will have a rounded boss that just clears the outside of the bolt head. All
the early heads to 19?? (again some help here) were like this.

5) Later heads, after 19?? have a square boss here that extends all the way
over to the edge of the head at the intake manifold surface. These heads
are usually stamped "7" or "8" to signify CR. Every unstamped head I have
ever checked turned out to be a 7:1 but don't regard that as the gospel.

6) My understanding is that no 7:1 engines were "officially" brought over
from '68 on (i.e. as part of the NAS spec vehicle) but that a few made it
as mistakes, via private imports or in military rigs that were imported
later.

7) With all the mixing and matching going on, you never know what head your
rig has ended up with. Don't count on engine dates alone.You could have a
65 block and a '74 head. Also, bear in mind that whichever head you may
have, someone could have milled it (either moderately or severely) prior to
you getting it. The only way to tell is by measureing the thickness (as
soon as we compile those figures for you) or by ccing the head.

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: Elwyny <Elwyny@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:56:29 EST
Subject: unsubscribe lro

 

------------------------------

From: DOC2BE99 <DOC2BE99@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 12:18:05 EST
Subject: Cruiser/Rover swap

Hi folks,

  Im a grad student here in Atlanta Ga. and during the last two years I've
been drving my trusty 73Fj40.  During that time I have slowly been converted
to a Roverite.  I would like to trade my cruiser for a series rover,
preferably a swb diesel, although I will consider all offers.  The Cruiser is
near perfect with no rust, perfect running engine and perfect drivetrain.  It
has a new clutch, brakes, and parking brake.  The truck has all three
tops:Hard,Soft,and Bikini.  The cruiser only has 25,000 miles on the clock.  I
would be glad to give you a detailed description.  You can contact me
personally.  

Charles Studley
DOC2BE99@AOL.COM
(770) 928-9846

------------------------------

From: "John McMaster" <john.chia@mail.ndirect.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:47:13 +0000
Subject: Re: Cruiser/Rover swap

>   Im a grad student here in Atlanta Ga. and during the last two years I've
> been drving my trusty 73Fj40.  During that time I have slowly been converted
> to a Roverite.  I would like to trade my cruiser for a series rover,
> preferably a swb diesel, although I will consider all offers.  The Cruiser is
> near perfect with no rust, perfect running engine and perfect drivetrain.  It
> has a new clutch, brakes, and parking brake.  The truck has all three
> tops:Hard,Soft,and Bikini.  The cruiser only has 25,000 miles on the clock.  I
> would be glad to give you a detailed description.  You can contact me
> personally.  

Typical, you have a lack of Land Rovers in the US, I would like a SWB 
diesel FJ40 (as_well_as_2_LR) but they never made it into the UK ;-(

cheers

john
______________________
John McMaster
john@chiaroscuro.co.uk

green/purple 110/Massey Ferguson

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:04:47 +0100
From: Bernd Jonas <Bernd.Jonas@munich.netsurf.de>
Subject: LR 88 SIII 2,25 diesel for sale

Hi there!
Now I sale my lovely 88 series car. Here are the details:

LR 88 SIII 2,25 diesel
Hardtop + truckcabine
mech. winch (not on the car)
new painting last year sand matt, roof is white
7.5 tires
optically really very nice car
righthand steering (homemarket)

Interested people: Please drop me a line for further details, fotos etc.

Bye

BERND JONAS

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:57:36 -0500
From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: series oil bath filters

John;
The really cool thing was the way you and Simon replaced those two bent con rods
and enjoyed the rest of the weekend thrashing around in the bush, then making
the 3.5 hour trip home under your own power. Lucky Richard had a few old parts
laying around.

Brett

john taylor wrote:

Regarding the position of the intake in a dryer area of the engine. Being
the poor unfrotunate who hydrauliced the engine in not so deep water(thanks
Dave for reminding me about this) I had the intake at the back near the
firewall. I figure a wave of water went up the front face of the firewall
into the intake.

John Taylor
sIIa v6 bastard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 15:57:46 -0500
From: Brett Storey <brstore@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: FIREWALL (galvanizing)

Huub, I recently has a SIII bulkhead galvanized. I am too happy with it.

First, I stripped it down completely, then had it sandblasted. Next I filled all
the captive nuts and the bonnet mounting loops with silicone. I then crossed my
fingers and shipped it off for dipping. Two days later it came back and I was
seriously impressed. Looks great and there is no warping to speak of. Cleaned
out the captive nuts with a tap and that was it.

As soon as the warmer weather arrives here in the Great White North, I'll paint
and install it.

Brett

Huub Pennings wrote:
Hello Guys,

Since I am in the rebuilding proces of a firewall myself I wonder if
anyone has some sound advise on how best to rust protect this part.
Options that come to mind are Zinc dipping (Can it take the
temperatures involved?). Zinc spraying after sandblasting
(effectiveness???) and of course diffrent pain scemes,
Anyone???

Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:39:56 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: Re: Cruiser/Rover swap

Check out my rover at http://www.calmit.unl.edu/tooze/carawagon

>   Im a grad student here in Atlanta Ga. and during the last two years I've
> been drving my trusty 73Fj40.  During that time I have slowly been converted
> to a Roverite.  I would like to trade my cruiser for a series rover,
> preferably a swb diesel, although I will consider all offers.  The Cruiser is
> near perfect with no rust, perfect running engine and perfect drivetrain.  It
> has a new clutch, brakes, and parking brake.  The truck has all three
> tops:Hard,Soft,and Bikini.  The cruiser only has 25,000 miles on the clock.  I
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> DOC2BE99@AOL.COM
> (770) 928-9846

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:55:37 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Ratio front to back??

Someone told me that Unimogs have different drive ratios on the front
and back axles, so that when i 4WD, the front axle bites 5% harder than
the back.

No this guy's an engineer, and seems to know what he's tallking about,
but wouldn't this break the drive chain somewhere - or at least screw
the tires?

I maintained that the Land Rover series transmission is unity front to
back when locked - but am I right?

Curious?

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:53:01 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)

> Check out my rover at http://www.calmit.unl.edu/tooze/carawagon
> >   Im a grad student here in Atlanta Ga. and during the last two years I've
> > been drving my trusty 73Fj40.  During that time I have slowly been converted
> 	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 18 lines)]

Goddamit. That wasn't meant to be net wide. Anyway, hope all the other
midwesterners are havibng some four wheeling fun. Current score for
towing stuck vehicles:

Chevy: 2
Ford: 1
Toyota: 1
My landy: 1 (by a chevy)

Yes...I managed to high center myself on a drift. While I was trying to talk
the wife into digging us out when Mr. Chevy Truck pulled over and jerked 
us out. How embarassing.

Marcus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:56:23 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: Re: Ratio front to back??

> Someone told me that Unimogs have different drive ratios on the front
> and back axles, so that when i 4WD, the front axle bites 5% harder than
> the back.
> No this guy's an engineer, and seems to know what he's tallking about,
> but wouldn't this break the drive chain somewhere - or at least screw
> the tires?

Dunno about mogs, but differential drive ratios are possible. Aren't
most 4wd Audis and Porches 40/60?

> I maintained that the Land Rover series transmission is unity front to
> back when locked - but am I right?

Yes. Your right. The series rovers don't have center diffs.

Marcus 

> Curious?
> Adrian Redmond
> ---------------------------------------------------
> CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
> Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
> ---------------------------------------------------

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
> Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
> ---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: DONOHUE PE <DONOHUEPE@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:11:07 EST
Subject: Safety

On: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 Alan Richer wrote thusly on the subject of safety:
"A year ago Feb.10th, I was heading home through the streets of Somerville,
MA, when this Honda decided to take a left turn from the right lane.  ...
They towed the Honda.  Mr.C never even stalled."

This incident entitles AJ to paint a small Honda logo on the side of the
fuselage, below the cockpit of his Land-Rover.  You have all seen these
things on fighter aircraft.  Works with Landies too.  Rules of engagement
state that after ten, you are an "ACE".

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109 (with only one large dog to it's credit)


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:47:02 -0800 (PST)
From: hstin@cts.com (The Brothers Stinson)
Subject: Series Thule Bars

Hello,
        Does anyone know the part number for Series III hard top Thule bars?
I have been offered a set off of an 80's Jeed Grand Wagoneer, hardly used,
for free.  Thanks....

                                                          Henry
                                                     Series III 88' Shed
                                                                            
                                  

------------------------------

From: g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)
Subject: An LR for my daughter?
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:48:13 GMT

My 14 year old daughter has started the two year campaign for
something to drive. With seriously limited finances she has visions of
a Land Rover that needs lots of work. (I drive a Disco.) She proposes
we do the work together (her willingness to do something with her
parents is part of her campaign.)

My biggest concern is that the car always bring her home. If it breaks
down and won't leave home she can accept that.

Am I crazy?

How much should she budget for the car? We are probably willing to
undertake any repair except welding. Whatever welding is required will
have to be paid for. Of course my willingness to do any repair will
change as we start doing them.

Some of you have probably been in this position either as parent or
teenager. Experience and advice welcome. Thanks

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:43:15 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Ratio front to back??

Adrian wrote:

> Someone told me that Unimogs have different drive ratios on the front
> and back axles, so that when i 4WD, the front axle bites 5% harder
> than
> the back.

I don't know how Unimogs are set up, but this is somewhat plausible. The
original Subaru 4wd's had different final drive ratios front to rear. It
was claimed to be for stability, but may also have been due to the
ratios of their front diff and the Datsun 510 rear diff used, and the
closest match they could achieve with integer numbers of teeth on an
intermediate set of gears.

The linear speed of the ground at the tire contact patch differs from (2
pi * rolling radius * rotational speed) whenever torque is being
transmitted through the tire. This is due to distortion in the tire, not
sliding between rubber and ground, though the technical term is "slip".
The tire rotates fast relative to contact patch speed during
acceleration and normal driving, and rotates slow during braking.
(Refinement: there may be local sliding of tread relative to the ground
but the average speed of the contact patch rubber is the same as the
ground speed except near limit of  adhesion)

If the front axle is geared to turn faster then the front wheels will
tend to have more torque through them. I don't recall what the usual
value is between slip and the ratio of contact patch force and normal
force, though a 5% difference in front and rear rotational speed seems
high. It will also result in significant windup of the drivetrain on
high friction surfaces such as pavement.

Marcus Tooze wrote:

> Dunno about mogs, but differential drive ratios are possible. Aren't
> most 4wd Audis and Porches 40/60?

The "40/60" type of split refers to torque (twisting force) split
front/rear in a vehicle with a center differential (or similar device),
not the speed ratio. Usually this is accomplished by an "epicyclic"
center differential with planetary gears. The torque split with the
front and rear axles turning at a fixed speed ratio (as in a Series LR,
or other LR with center diff locked) depends on the traction conditions
at each tire and any "windup" in the drivetrain.

BTW, with a "viscous" drive "on demand" system such as the Freelander,
CR-V, Chrysler mini-van, etc. the front/rear torque split depends on the
speed difference of the front and rear wheels and the torque out of the
transmission.

Regards,
David Cockey

PS Was the mild winter in many parts of the country responsible for the
lack of discussion of 4wd vs. awd, etc? Or was it a sign that the coil
spring lists are functioning?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:10:57 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: LR specialist in Chicago area?

Does anyone know anything about a LR specialist in the Chicago area who
does restorations as well as repairs? Name, phone, location? Still in
business or "used to be"? Any personal experiences? Thanks.

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:10:32 -0800
From: John Hong <jhong@best.com>
Subject: weight of a 2.25 liter petrol engine?

So how much does one of these babies weigh?

Block, head, flywheel.

I'm gonna guess 450 pounds???

john

------------------------------

From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:31:44 EST
Subject: Re: weight of a 2.25 liter petrol engine?

In a message dated 98-03-08 21:14:47 EST, you write:

<< So how much does one of these babies weigh?
 
 Block, head, flywheel.
 
 I'm gonna guess 450 pounds???
  >>

I think that's about right.  Pretty d*mn heavy compared to the transmission.
I lift engines with a herkin' big chain and the front end loader on the
tractor.

Nate

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: LR Corrosion (was bulhead behind seats)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:52:21 +1000

Marin Faure writes:
>He claims that Series Land Rover bodies seem to be a bit
>more resistant to the corrosive nature of his work although
>he has no idea why.

I wonder if late model stuff uses Birmabright.  I've seen lots of rusty door
frames etc on Land Rovers but never the corrosion of the alloy that I 've
got in a couple of spots on my Rangie.  Why?  Both have the alloy/steel
contact.

Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, NSW, Australia (02) 4735-6883
Editor, Hillman Owners Club of Australia Newsletter
check my home page at http://www.users.bigpond.com/hillman
for Hillman and Rover

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: Safety
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:45:31 +1000

Last year I was towing a loaded car trailer.  I was accelerating (?) away
from some traffic lights when the T*y*ta sedan in front propped right in
front of me. I hit the anchors but only succeeded in locking up (no-ABS) and
continnued to be pushed by the car trailer into the back of said Corolla.

I scratched the pain on my ARB bull bar and bent my number plate.   The bull
bar didn't even touch the Toyota's bumper - it passed cleanely over it into
the boot lid (trunk for NAS readers).  The car trailer continued to push the
Rover forward until the Toyota resembled a utility  (pickup to NAS readers).

Thank goodness the police didn't have to come so I didn't get booked and as,
I didn't make a claim, I still have a no claim bonus.

Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, NSW, Australia (02) 4735-6883
Editor, Hillman Owners Club of Australia Newsletter
check my home page at http://www.users.bigpond.com/hillman
for Hillman and Rover

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:33:44 -0500
From: Russ Burns <burns@ismi.net>
Subject: Re: An LR for my daughter?

Just teach her how to fix the landrover, and buy her a set of
tools of her own. Sounds like a great project!!!

Russ
(I hope my daughter has the same ambition when she hits 14)

At 12:48 AM 3/9/98 GMT, you wrote:
>My 14 year old daughter has started the two year campaign for
>something to drive. With seriously limited finances she has visions of
>a Land Rover that needs lots of work. (I drive a Disco.) She proposes
>we do the work together (her willingness to do something with her
>parents is part of her campaign.)
>My biggest concern is that the car always bring her home. If it breaks
>down and won't leave home she can accept that.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 25 lines)]
>Gerald
>g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 22:44:12 -0500
From: Russ Burns <burns@ismi.net>
Subject: Re: LR Corrosion (was bulhead behind seats)

At one of the meetings here in Mich, we had a couple of Ford corrosion
engineers looking at the Landrover. One of the hints I gathered was that
galvanization on the older vehicles was to sacrificial anode.
the real old ROvers had as heavy zinc coating, the Land rovers in
the 70 had a thinner coating, The new vehicles rely on isolation of the
dissimilar metals. IE. the painted bolts on the Range ROvers fenders were
essential for the corrosion protection. They also recommended I replace
them with painted ones when they start to corrode.

At 09:52 PM 3/8/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Marin Faure writes:
>>He claims that Series Land Rover bodies seem to be a bit
>>more resistant to the corrosive nature of his work although
>>he has no idea why.
>I wonder if late model stuff uses Birmabright.  I've seen lots of rusty door
>frames etc on Land Rovers but never the corrosion of the alloy that I 've
>got in a couple of spots on my Rangie.  Why?  Both have the alloy/steel
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
>check my home page at http://www.users.bigpond.com/hillman
>for Hillman and Rover

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:54:02 -0600
From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: weight of a 2.25 liter petrol engine?

Hi All,
 Sorry I think 450 is low weight for a LR 2.25 complete engine & closer
to the weight of a complete MGB engine.

Regards,
 Rob Davis_Chicago

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:12:27 -0800
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: New web page stuff

[One version of this or another is going to multiple lists, so please excuse me
if you get it more than once.]

A friend bought a digital camera recently, and I used it to take a few pics of
the interior of the II and how it sits with the new springs and shackles.  

The main page is http://www.thelen.org/LandRover.html the interior pics can be
found in the 'interior' section (suprise!).  Some may find the section on the
Tuffy console intesting.  The springs page can be reached from the "Suspension"
section of the page.  The bang on the left rear quaterpanel is my Rubicon Trail
Badge (or is that Bash) of Honor.

C

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 21:21:37 -0800
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: weight of a 2.25 liter petrol engine?

car4doc wrote:
> Hi All,
>  Sorry I think 450 is low weight for a LR 2.25 complete engine & closer
> to the weight of a complete MGB engine.

By hook and crook, I ended up with a SII motor in a crate which originally held
a complete Turner rebuilt 2.25l engine.  The crate was marked 220kg, which by my
calculations is 440 lbs.

C

------------------------------

From: "Andy Grafton" <brantxit@iafrica.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:50:16 +0000
Subject: Re : Safety

Dear Peter,

As usual, this is a complex argument, and one which I have had cause 
to spend time thinking about in the past.

In general;
a) Slower vehicles are safer (less energy in impact)
b) Heavier vehicles are safer (less change in velocity for hitting a 
given non-immovable object i.e. another car)
c) More 'modern' vehicles are safer (better design, both in terms of 
primary and secondary safety)

The Series Land Rover, and the Defender, are a compromise between 
rugged off-road design and the usual safety considerations. 

In terms of Secondary Safety (i.e. assuming you do hit something)...

In a head-on/offset frontal  passenger-vehicle-to-Land Rover 
accident, you'd probably do very well (assuming you were wearing a 
belt) because you have advantages in a) and b).

In a head on/offset frontal truck-or-motorway-bridge-to-Land Rover 
accident you would do probably do badly because the only thing in 
your favour is a).  The Land Rover is stiffer (i.e. doesn't crumple 
as well) as other vehicles, meaning that more energy from the impact 
is transferred to the driver in a situation where the other object is 
essentially immoveable.

You see a lot of "my Land Rover was OK but you should have seen the 
other guy's car" type press, but bear in mind that the other guy's 
car was doing as designed and preventing injury by absorbing energy 
i.e. crumpling.

If you hit the interior of the car you'll be worse off than in a 
passenger vehicle because the interior is not designed with a 'no 
sharp edges policy'.  Get really good, professionally designed belts 
fitted and always wear them.  Replace them if you hit something hard 
enough to make you hit the belts hard, even if the LR doesn't show 
severe signs of damage.  This is in addition to the fundamental rule 
of gradual deceleration to prevent organ/brain damage which can't be 
achieved in any way without some kind of restraint system.

Head restraints (headrests) will save big problems - if properly 
adjusted - in terms of rear and front end impacts.

I think that you'd suffer in a side impact situation due to the 
chassis rail being pretty much the first thing an intruding object 
(car, truck) would hit.  That is a bit far in to prevent mangling of 
driver/passenger's outside leg/hip/shoulder.

In terms of Primary Safety (avoiding the accident)...

Land Rovers turn badly and stop badly w.r.t. more modern vehicles.  
In their favour is good visibility (see out and be seen), slow speed 
and the ability to drive over kerbs and up embankments to avoid other 
vehicles without damage and under control.

In summary...

Avoid hitting really heavy things.
Get properly designed seatbelts fitted, and wear them.
Fit seats with head restraints.

And I reckon you'll be reasonably safe in the real world.

All the best,

Andy

brantxit@iafrica.com, '79 RR.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 23:21:49 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <carradine@landrover.net>
Subject: Re: weight of a 2.25 liter petrol engine?

At 09:21 PM 3/8/98, Christopher H. Dow <dow@thelen.org> wrote:
>I ended up with a SII motor in a crate which originally held
>a complete Turner rebuilt 2.25l engine.  The crate was marked
>220 kg, which by my calculations is 440 lbs.

 485 lbs.

-M

------------------------------

From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Safety and collisions
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 00:42:32 -0800

With all the people talking about accidents and how tough their Land Rovers
are, I thought that I would throw out some interesting statistics.

This is from "The Book of Risks"  - a great resource that does comparative
analysis and reference for a variety of risk activities.

Your chances of dying in a automobile accident this year is 1 in 5,000.
If your vehicle is 50% the mass of the other vehicle, your chance of death
or injury is four times greater than if your vehicle weights were equal.
5% of all accidents are head on.
>1% of all accident fatalities involve either fire or water.
Air bags used with three point seat belts increase your safety over three
point seat belts alone by only >3%.
just a few others...
1 in 11,000 will be murdered this year
1 in 11,000 will be killed on the job.

There are also interesting numbers involving speed, distance from home, age
of driver, etc.
The chances of your child being abducted by a stranger (not a spouse, family
member or friend) is 1 in 1 million this year.  The chance that they will be
struck (not necessarily killed) by lightening is 1 in 1 million. - use those
numbers as you will - teach your child fear of lightening as you would
strangers (or visa versa)

As a perspective different than most people, Land Rover's are one of the
smaller vehicles I have owned.  A Land Rover is 1/4 the weight of the
tractor portion of a tractor trailer (something to think about when you cut
them off).  Having driven a rig with a 48' lowboy, I can assure you that
mass almost always wins in vehicle collisions and that 80,000 pounds wins
over most vehicles (there are rigs of 105,000#).  Excellent to the person
who mentioned about human deceleration, truckers finally caught on and wear
seat belts.
Land Rovers hitting Honda's in the side will certainly win. There are always
some "lucky" people who hit poles and large objects.  The "odds" do not
favor this "luck".  I have pulled enough bodies out of wrecks to keep things
in perspective.
If you want to read an interesting book, pick up the Book of Risks - it is
not some interesting number juggling, but real world comparisons of raw
data.

Cheers
David
Stay at Home Father
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
Ural Motorcycle - S/V KALAKALA, Ingrid 38, ketch
Wilderness E.M.T.

------------------------------

From: philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:50:06 +0100
Subject: safety

Add also a military towing hook on your front and rear bumper and the other 
drivers will become even more polite.

Philippe Carchon
Ghent, Belgium
'81 lightweight ffr

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 05:00:09 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: LR Corrosion (was bulhead behind seats)

Ron Beckett wrote:

> I wonder if late model stuff uses Birmabright.  I've seen lots of
> rusty door
> frames etc on Land Rovers but never the corrosion of the alloy that I
> 've
> got in a couple of spots on my Rangie.  Why?  Both have the
> alloy/steel
> contact.

The zinc on galvanized steel is sacrifical relative to the aluminum, so
the aluminum shouldn't corrode where it contacts galvanized steel.
Elsewhere, if there is a layer of insulation such as paint or sealer
between the the aluminum and steel you shouldn't have corrosion. Of
course if a fastener short circuts the insulation corrosion may result.

BTW, as far as i know "Birmabright" was just LR's trade name for a
particular, not uncommon, aluminum (aluminium) alloy.

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:34:19 +0200 (EET)
From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@stybba.ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Safety/Political Content

-- 
Hello David Scheidt!
Congratulations on getting somebody to offer you financial help in
your Land Rovering! Also had some inpatient driver kind enough to
donate his insurance co.'s funds ("I thought you were turning") and
his crumple zone car to my bumper's mercy. Our '70 109 has no seatbelts
at all, but my 4-year boy and I were untouched. So I got about 3000FIM,
will buy another bumper from Paddock's delivered for 400, straighten
out my fender pieces by hand. ( Mikko Lehmusto was kind enough to give
me a SIII fender also, of which it looks like I'll use the outer
piece, grand fellow Roverian ) 
All this stuff about exploding pillows & crumple zones really does
sound like a lot of puff to me...Under the guise of gas economy and
saving of weight, manufacturers replace thick steel bumpers with thin
ones covered with weak soft enviro-degradable plastic. Then for
safety, they add Challenger-technology air bags & anti-stopping brake
systems. You can really depend on these when some wheel flies off a
trailer-rig coming towards you & hits you 200 kph relative, because
"deregulation" has forced the driver-owner to operate at the economic 
minimum, driving doped up on bennies. Where's the legislative logic?
The sad thing is that despite the fact that the majority of you in NA
would feel and be safer in a bare-bones Defender than any 
ultra-monocoque, you lose the freedom of choice...

R. Wade Hughes
Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems    
NTC, Nokia Group            
Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor      82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
00045 Helsinki, Finland     70 Land Rover SIIA 109 Petrol     "Zenith"
  Tel: (358-9)-511-6332     73 Citroen 2CV4                   "Zéphyr"
  Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
Email: hughes@shire.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
   or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:22:47 +0200 (EET)
From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@stybba.ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Australian Fuel Pump

-- 
Well Gentlemen, here's my 1st real engine-tech question for the list.
I would have asked some super questions earlier, but lord alive, my
petrol 2.25 been going pretty well great since I bought it in Nov 96!
I literally haven't done anything to the engine except change the oil 
& filter. That's not supposed to happen, eh? After you buy a used car,
it's supposed to fall apart!
But now spring's coming & I'd better take care of this upside-down
fuel pump...Yup, it's mounted with the bowl up, don't know if the
screen is even in it, got no in-line filter. What is rigged is that
the outlet goes to a "Motorcraft" plastic bowl, & from there one line
goes to the carb, and another goes back to the tank. As all I have is
the Hayne's book, I don't see any relief valve at the fuel pump, so
how is the fuel pump output relieved to avoid pressure-flooding the
carb? Why have I got this kind of unorthodox arrangement in my rig?
I'm afraid there's something I'm not aware of here. Has anybody an
explanation for mounting the pump upside down? Do I need this
recirculating hose back to the tank?

R. Wade Hughes
Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems    
NTC, Nokia Group            
Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor      82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
00045 Helsinki, Finland     70 Land Rover SIIA 109 Petrol     "Zenith"
  Tel: (358-9)-511-6332     73 Citroen 2CV4                   "Zéphyr"
  Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
Email: hughes@shire.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
   or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:57:02 +0200 (EET)
From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@stybba.ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Australian Fuel Pump

-- 
Well Gentlemen, here's my 1st real engine-tech question for the list.
I would have asked some super questions earlier, but lord alive, my
petrol 2.25 been going pretty well great since I bought it in Nov 96!
I literally haven't done anything to the engine except change the oil 
& filter. That's not supposed to happen, eh? After you buy a used car,
it's supposed to fall apart!
But now spring's coming & I'd better take care of this upside-down
fuel pump...Yup, it's mounted with the bowl up, don't know if the
screen is even in it, got no in-line filter. What is rigged is that
the outlet goes to a "Motorcraft" plastic bowl, & from there one line
goes to the carb, and another goes back to the tank. As all I have is
the Hayne's book, I don't see any relief valve at the fuel pump, so
how is the fuel pump output relieved to avoid pressure-flooding the
carb? Why have I got this kind of unorthodox arrangement in my rig?
I'm afraid there's something I'm not aware of here. Has anybody an
explanation for mounting the pump upside down? Do I need this
recirculating hose back to the tank?

R. Wade Hughes
Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems    
NTC, Nokia Group            
Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor      82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
00045 Helsinki, Finland     70 Land Rover SIIA 109 Petrol     "Zenith"
  Tel: (358-9)-511-6332     73 Citroen 2CV4                   "Zéphyr"
  Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
Email: hughes@shire.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
   or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)

------------------------------

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