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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 98 16:36:47 EST
Subject: Re: tire size equivalence

Its a 33 something or other. I think. Your tire shop (a truck tire shop) 
should be able to help out.

I thiNK the XCL's would be just as bad in the wet. Good year has a very similar 
tire to the XCL at least in tread pattern.
 A friend of mine put radial mud rovers on his non-rover truck and they're 
great looking tires.

let us know what you find...

later
dAVEb
 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 07:35:42 -0500
From: eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite)
Subject: Only two?

Said Geoffrey at MITTS wrote:

>> Now that I own 2 landrovers I have a problem. In the beginning I was going to
>> sell the Series III (as my mother and father want) but I have a gut feeling
>> to keep it and do a restoration.
>> What do I do????
>> What do you suggest??

John and Muddy answered:

>You should do what all good children do .... totally ignore your parents
>wishes   :-)

Wimp! If you own three Land Rovers, it's almost as good as owning three!
Buy another one. The answer is self-evident, don't you think?

        -------                    Capsule Autobiography:
    _____                          Ate an English muffin once.
___(_____)                         Tried a bagel.
|Baby the\            May 15-22:   Never ordered delivery pizza
|1969 Land\_===__     Come to      Never drank bottled water.
|  ___Rover   ___|o   Wool Camp    Never visited Disney anything.
|_/ . \______/ . ||   in Iceland!  Land Rover is excitement enough.
___\_/________\_/________________________________________________
Ned Heite Camden, DE  http://home.dmv.com/~eheite/index.html  

------------------------------

From: "Peter Hope" <shdwrvr@erols.com>
Subject: Concerning the military wiring diagram thread.
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:02:38 -0500

I was wondering if anyone has set up a data base on the web for this type of
stuff?
A place where if anyone needs a spec sheet or diagram they can go look for
it.  Also would allow for submission of such items from those with the
original.
Why not scan the pages and place them on the site and then list the URL?
As far as copywrite stuff, I believe that as long as the source is quoted
and you are not reselling the info then it is  legal in this country.
If it doesn't already exist, is there a perceived need for it from others?
Anyone in the Tidewater Virginia area interested in setting it up?  I would
be glad to help :-)
Sorry if this is vague, I am getting ready for work as I read this.

------
Peter M. Hope                            "The quickest way to end a war
Shadow River Productions                           is to loose it"
G.Orwell
Internet Design Studio
Norfolk, VA
Shdwrvr@erols.com

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:15:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Concerning the military wiring diagram thread.

I'll look into putting some piccies on my WWW site.
I need a scanner, and an understand WWW host!

R.

shdwrvr@erols.com on 03/04/98 01:02:38 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Concerning the military wiring diagram thread.

I was wondering if anyone has set up a data base on the web for this type
of
stuff?
A place where if anyone needs a spec sheet or diagram they can go look for
it.  Also would allow for submission of such items from those with the
original.
Why not scan the pages and place them on the site and then list the URL?
As far as copywrite stuff, I believe that as long as the source is quoted
and you are not reselling the info then it is  legal in this country.
If it doesn't already exist, is there a perceived need for it from others?
Anyone in the Tidewater Virginia area interested in setting it up?  I would
be glad to help :-)
Sorry if this is vague, I am getting ready for work as I read this.
-
------
Peter M. Hope                            "The quickest way to end a war
Shadow River Productions                           is to loose it"
G.Orwell
Internet Design Studio
Norfolk, VA
Shdwrvr@erols.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:30:47 -0500
From: William S Kowalski <70252.1204@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: any rover owners in Chicago area?  YES

Yes, quite a few, I for one live in Hinsdale, office in Westmont. Left a
message on your Homestead Village telephone this am before 7am 3/4/98,
guess you were either still asleep or already out. Anyway, give me a call 
and I'll take you up on the beer offer (Hinsdale is dry, have to go
elsewhere)

Bill Kowalski
w 630-852-6898
h  630-986-1018

'67 L-R 109" IIA
'63 Austin-Healey BJ-7
'53 RR Bentley "R"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 05:39:54 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Ode to Land Rover

Ode to Land Rover

With roaring, crashing thunder,
As we throw the rocks asunder,
And climb the hill from under,
Our Rover makes the top.

We shift down into compound low,
And know there's nowhere we can't go.
We always seem to have to show,
The others how it's done.

Who the hell needs big vee-eights,
When our four bangers can negociate,
The worst terrain you can locate,
This side of Hades Gates.

It's said old Rovers never die,
And though it's true they cannot fly,
They'll climb the snowy clouds on high,
To the bushlands in the sky.

J.A.
1983

------------------------------

From: GElam30092 <GElam30092@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:01:38 EST
Subject: What's in a name?

I have a '63 SIIA 88" SW which leaks fairly badly.  Since the front fenders
were trimmed out to accomodate larger tires, it looks fairly aggresive.. for a
IIA.

Name:  " Soldado Sangrando"  which roughly translates to   "Bleeding Soldier".

I have just acquired the rights to a SIII soft-top which will be finalized
upon my return to the US.  It already comes with a name and I assume it is bad
karma to re-name.  It might throw the LR-world out of balance and things might
make sense once again.  Our LR's would stop leaking, our spouses wouldn't mind
if we buy three or four more LR's, our girl friends wouldn't nag about the
lack of A/C, gas prices would drop to 1965 levels but diesels would become
common-place in the US and a treasure trove of SI/SII/SIII parts would be
uncovered in the deserts outside of Phoenix by a standed Toyota owner crawling
for water.  Andy in Africa might not like that! :-)  

Oh well.... one doesn't ever buy a LR, he only purchases the rights to drive
it for a given period then passes it to the next owner and replaces said LR
with another one.  Keeps it all in the family so to speak.

Gerry Elam
PHX AZ
'63 IIA 88" SW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:02:16 GMT
From: Stephen Brown <sbrown@ner.com>
Subject: 1960 Series II for sale

Hi all,

I live in central Vermont (between WRJ and Montpelier) and have a 1960
Series II (not a IIa) 88 inch wheelbase Landrover with a hard top for
sale. It is a New Mexico truck with no rust anywhere (except the door
tops), in fact you can still read the serial number on the frame. I've
waxoyled it since I moved to New England. It is always in the garage
when not being used. It is driven fairly often. The odometer says
about 90,000 and based on what I know, I believe it to be true. I put
on new leaf springs and new front seats (offical landrover parts). I
put in seat belts for safety's sake in front and back and added a
right fender rear-view mirror. My friend helped me weld up a sturdy
roof rack. I have put in a new Weber carburetor and electric fuel pump
with pressure regulator -- both required after an extreme bout with
bad (dirty) gas from %$%^%^, and have switched it to negative ground
and put in a GM alternator to replace the failed generator. The tires
are pretty good Cooper's, tall and skinny 16 inch radials. It has
locking hubs on the front. I've replaced several oil seals and the
propeller shaft U-joints. I put in a new gas tank and the related
filler hoses, since the old one leaked badly. It has a VW bug
horn. The heater is the little round Smith's shin roaster. Everything
(what little it has) works. I have replaced the series II thermostat
housing and thermostat with the series IIa variety, since the old
thermostats are so hard to come by. Other than the few "necessary"
upgrades, it is pretty original. I have a complete record of its
previous owners and all the work I've done on it plus the owner's and
shop manuals and many parts catalogs. It even holds a bit of history:
there is a bullet wedged in the tailgate from a long-ago domestic
dispute in Albuquerque (I wasn't involved). Oh yea, I have a tow bar
for it (I've never used it though!).

If you have web access, you can see a picture of it (and, as an extra
bonus, me on my 1950 Farmall tractor!) at my friend's web site in
Perth, Australia (I'll explain how the photo got there another time).

http://www.ned.dem.csiro.au/unrestricted/people/CoxSimon/gallery/srbtract.jpg
 
I'm forced to sell it because I've changed jobs and now I must commute
quite far (about 80 miles round trip) each day. There is undoubtedly
more work to be done toward resoration (for example the exhaust system
is in some need of repair), but it is a good runner as is. I bought it
for $5000 about 5 years or so ago in much poorer condition in
Albuquerque, and will reluctantly sell "Bertie" for $5500 today.

Email me if you're interested.

Thanks,

Stephen Brown
Brookfield, Vermont

browns@sover.net

------------------------------

From: MurphyK1@psgvl.ps.ge.com
Subject: RE: Re:FIREWALL
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:19:33 -0500 

> >Does anyone have the recipe for removing the firewall?
> >Do the wings hold the firewall up, or does the firewall hold the wings
> >up? Or do I just pull the whole carabam off?
> >Adrian Redmond

	>Adrian,
	>I replaced my firewall a couple of years ago. ...
	>Richard

	Adrian and other interested parties,

	I decided not to pull the firewall because the previous owner had
the A-posts replaced.  When he did that, he welded the bottom part of the
posts to the frame... hence, it was a little more than just a couple of
bolts holding the firewall on once everything else that Richard described
was removed.  

	So, I decided to restore the firewall while it was still connected
to the frame.  The engine, wings, doors, windscreen, and seatbox (and
everything else on Richard's list) was already removed so all I had to do
was cover the tranny and the frame with plastic before sandblasting and
painting.  I also had new footwells welded in place.  Pictures will be
available on the net soon.

	Kevin
	'67 SIIA 88"

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:36:07 EST
Subject: LRs in Automobile

FYI there are some editorial references to LR in the March Automobile Mag, and
some editorial on the Pinzgauer from Austria. Also an thing on the LR school
in Vermont... They tied the two together by mentioning that LR in its wisdom,
got tranny parts from SDP for the Free-o.

pat
93  111*

*It is heavily loaded today, and with the suspension arms' arcs, I measured an
extra inch of wheelbase...

------------------------------

From: rovah@agate.net
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:48:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: May DELRC Event info...

The DELRC will be having its spring event the weekend of May 23-24.
Information can be found at our website on the "Regional Events," page.
This event is open to both members and non-members.  Space is limited
however, so if you're interested in coming, let me know soon!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323rd Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game
<http://www.tstonramp.com/~kahuna/index.html>

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1998 SE Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA
88", 1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO" 1963 Unimog 404.1-S "The Caterpiller"

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 10:10:25 EST
Subject: Re: What's in a name?

>> our girl friends wouldn't nag about the lack of A/C,

that's why the tops come off! er, uh, of the Land Rovers that is...

>>Oh well.... one doesn't ever buy a LR, he only purchases the rights to 
>>drive it for a given period...

Yeah right, I wish somebody would tell that to my checkbook!

daveB who is thinking about changing his land rovers name AGAIN. 
arlington VA 
72 SIII Green HELL 

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:32:07 EST
Subject: Re: What's in a name?

In a message dated 3/4/98 10:16:38 AM, daveB wrote:

>daveB who is thinking about changing his land rovers name AGAIN. 
>arlington VA 
>72 SIII Green HELL

Did you ever settle on a name to put on the tag? I recall some of us made
suggestions a while back...

pat
93  110

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:55:27 +0300 (EET)
From: Semih Bingol <semih@leo.ee.hun.edu.tr>
Subject: A chat about seats, etc. (long)

Hi all,

I have a SIII 88" with inward facing rear bench seats and I think 
(though I'm not sure) original front seats. The front seats are not
in a very good condition but can be restored. Even though I find  
the original seats comfortable enough, I was planning to replace 
these with some high-back car seats for better comfort and safety.
My wife, who is -technically- the owner of the car is admittedly 
a purist and opposes the idea however.

Last month, we went to a weekend expedition and had to sleep two
nights in the Landy at -5 degrees Celsius. The PO has removed the rear
bulkhead (I think this was the word for the metal sheet behind the
seats) but the horizontal bar that connects the two sides is there.
After removing the front seat backrests, this gives a space long 
enough to sleep at the rear compartment when you extend your feet 
to the front over the seat bases. The space between the benches 
(the pool) is also wide enough for one and I had estimated that
it would be OK for two though a bit crowded.

After going into our sleeping bags, we tried to fit into the tight
space between the bench seats and although succeeded to do so, we
fought with claustrophobia all night. I had also forgotten to take
mats to lay under the sleeping bags. Even though I covered the
pool's floor with newspapers to an inch thickness, we had first hand
experience that birmabright is an excellent conductor of heat and 
newspapers are also not so perfect insulators at minus temperatures.

To obtain more protection from cold during the second night, I removed 
all front seat bases and backrests and covered the pool floor with these.
I don't know whether Rover did it deliberately, but to my surprise
they gave a perfect fit. In addition, they were almost level with the
bench seats (will be better if the useless bench seats are removed)
thus offering the entire width of the car for sleeping. As large
as a double bed with perfect insulation from cold. I was so
delighted with this discovery that I decided to keep the original
seats. This is far better and quicker than tackling with a tent, the 
only disadvantage being having to move everything at the rear out.

After deciding to recondition the original seats, I heard of a friend's
accident in a SWB LR. The guy was still at a red light when some fool
in a Fiat sedan decided to kiss his rear crossmember with a speed of
more than 100 kph (60 mph). He didn't have head supports and was badly
injured (a protruded thoracic disc) due to the backlash (whiplash?) from
the impact. The guy, who happens to be an anesthesist himself, is 
still suffering from loss of strength in both arms, after 6 months of
rehabilitation. BTW the LR had minor dents in the slightly bent
crossmember while the engine compartment of the sedan was almost 
totally nonexistant. 

Even though such an accident is not likely to happen often, the 
consequences may be worse if it does, and I now feel that I have to 
find a way to attach head supports to the original seats. However, 
they must be easily removable in case I need to use the backrests as a
bed. After working out the situation, I arrived at the following 
solution which I can describe better by ascii art:

                                                        
     Specially    |---|                          _|Hole  ||           _
     manufactured |   |                         |-|------|  /--------|-|  
     head support |___|                         |_|------|  \--------|_|    
                      |                       /   |Steel ||       |
                      /                  Nuts     |bar of||       |
                  ---/                  welded    | head ||     Bolts
                 /  //--o Bolt            to      |support|       |
                /  //# Horizontal bar   steel \  _|      ||       |   _
               /  //                     bar    |-|------|  /--------|-|
              /  //--o Bolt                     |_|------|  \--------|_| 
             /   /                                |Hole  ||   
    Backrest/   /                                 --------|    
           /   /                                          |Metal support 
  -------------                                           | of backrest
  | Seat base |                                            
  -------------                         Exposed side view of mounting 

Basically, I plan to have a custom built head support that will have
a steel bar protruding down into the backrest. Two holes will be drilled
on the back of the backrest and the bar, with mating nuts welded onto it,
will be bolted into place. Something like a barber's seat (don't know
whether barber seats are all alike in the world however).  

Question is, has anybody seen something like this done? If not,
do you find the method feasible? If not, can you suggest a solution
that satisfies the two constraints? (original seats + easily removable
and remountable head supports)

Best regards,

Semih Bingol
74SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:53:41
From: David Kurzman <kurzman@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Military Wiring: Users Handbook

I have sold my Military Users Handbook to another Land Rover owner but 
he has not picked it up yet. About a month ago I bought a nice scanner
and would be happy to scan the wiring diagrams BUT....I can't figure out
how to scan something and then mail the file. I tried this once and had
to cancel the mail after I had waited 10 minutes for about 25% of the
pic to load. If anyone in the Richmond, Va. USA area wants to help out 
and get these thing to someone who can post them on a website, that would
be great. Otherwise, the next owner will have to do it. Best, Pete
'66 88 Ragtop
PS...My # is (804) 233-1341. Please don't waste the majors bandwidth with
scanning instructions posted to the mailing list. I probably won't be able
to figure it out. I'm really computer clueless.

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:50:52 EST
Subject: Re:  A chat about seats, etc. (long)

In a message dated 3/4/98 10:59:06 AM, you wrote:

>The space between the benches 
>(the pool) is also wide enough for one and I had estimated that
it would be OK for two though a bit crowded.

After going into our sleeping bags, we tried to fit into the tight
>space between the bench seats and although succeeded to do so, we
>fought with claustrophobia all night. I had also forgotten to take
>mats to lay under the sleeping bags.

It is much less crowded if you are one above the other as opposed to side by
side ;-)

Insulation under sleeping bags is a must in cold weather as the metal floor
will work like a huge heat sink and rob your body of heat. At least you had
the means of producing *more* heat <grin>

Good luck with the headrests...

pat
93 "sleeps 2+dog" 110

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:38:28 -0500 (EST)
From: kelliott@intranet.ca (Keith Elliott)
Subject: Re: What's in a name?

>>> our girl friends wouldn't nag about the lack of A/C,
>that's why the tops come off! er, uh, of the Land Rovers that is...

Well... up here now both tops can come off legally ;)

Keith "Gonna be a fun summer" Elliott
1961 Series II 88"  "Ol' Yeller"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:06:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Roberts <psu00712@odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: A chat about seats

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Semih Bingol wrote:

> Question is, has anybody seen something like this done? If not,
> do you find the method feasible? If not, can you suggest a solution
> that satisfies the two constraints? (original seats + easily removable
> and remountable head supports)
> Best regards,
> Semih Bingol
> 74SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

Semih,

	How "original" does the girlfriend want to keep the rover?  Other 
than the exchange of the original seats with the comfy Volvo seats that I 
have heard has been done, I do believe that Hi-Back D90 seats bolt right 
into series vehicles.

	Just a thought for you to consider.

Michael Roberts
Vernonia, Oregon

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 13:07:33 EST
Subject: O Glorious Mountians...

Keith Eliot wrote:
>>Well... up here now both tops can come off legally ;)

I hear their fighting that legislation. Maybe you can defend it using the same 
slogans the anti-gun control lobby uses here in the US.

1. When going topless is outlawed, only outlaws will go topless

2. Bare breasts don't kill people, people that stare at bare breasts kill 
people

3. You can take these breasts when you pry them from my cold dead hands...

errr...maybe you shouldn't use number 3...

Ok, Keith as long as you don't bare YOUR breasts at the B'Day party...

Cheers
DaveB
President, NEA (National Eyeful Association)

------------------------------

From: "Chris Velardi" <tchris@freewwweb.com>
Subject: Fuel tanks
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:29:16 -0500
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
	charset="iso-8859-1"

After reading that some of the pre 1997 D90 owners were getting over 200 =
miles per tank full of gas I'm wondering what the actual USEABLE fuel =
capacity in a pre 1997 D90 is? I ran my 16. gallon tank on my 1997 D90 =
out of fuel and it would only take 14 gallons to refill  and every time =
I refill at close to empty it will only take 12 to 13 gallons.  So I've =
got(according to manufacture ) minimum of 2 gallons of unusable fuel =
just sitting around collecting sludge. Is my fuel pickup to high ? or is =
this standard?
Chris "V" (needing every drop he can find)

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4771.887E5860
	[ Original post was HTML ]
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>After reading that some of the pre =
1997 D90
owners were getting over 200 miles per tank full of gas I'm wondering =
what the
actual USEABLE fuel capacity in a pre 1997 D90 is? I ran my 16. gallon =
tank on
my 1997 D90 out of fuel and it would only take 14 gallons to =
refill&nbsp; and
every time I refill at close to empty it will only take 12 to 13 =
gallons.&nbsp;
So I've got(according to manufacture ) minimum of 2 gallons of unusable =
fuel
just sitting around collecting sludge. Is my fuel pickup to high ? or is =
this
standard? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Chris &quot;V&quot; (needing every =
drop he can
find)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4771.887E5860--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:47:03 +0300 (EET)
From: Semih Bingol <semih@leo.ee.hun.edu.tr>
Subject: Re: Re: A chat about seats

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Michael Roberts wrote:

> 	How "original" does the girlfriend want to keep the rover?  Other 

She doesn't want any modification except 
   1. legally required ones like a nameplate lamp,
   2. those aimed at safety like seatbelts, etc.
  
> than the exchange of the original seats with the comfy Volvo seats that I 
> have heard has been done, I do believe that Hi-Back D90 seats bolt right 
> into series vehicles.

Mike, the problem is not to find replacement seats only. I want to
be able to use them as a mattress to sleep at the back. I go camping
and off-roading whenever time permits and prefer to sleep in the SIII
rather than trying to set up a tent on 1 ft. of snow at midnight.  
I don't know whether the Defender hi-backers will give me that 
opportunity but my current seats are very easy to remove (sometimes 
come out themselves while driving :) and fit into that space perfectly.

Cheers,

Semih Bingol
74 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 13:43:27 EST
Subject: Re[2]: A chat about seats

>> I do believe that Hi-Back D90 seats bolt right into series vehicles.

 yes they do, but the new ones have a slightly different bolt pattern. Mine 
were 
 somewhat older and fit straight up. The center seat required two new holes.
 Also, they wont fit Semih's specs. He said he is using the seat back as part 
of 
 his bed. this would be a bit of a problem on the defender seats. Also the 
 center seat does not fold down. Although not everyone has the center seat. 
Also 
 they are expensive and difficult to obtain in the US. I got lucky with mine.
 the only real reason I wnted them was that i wanted highbacks for whiplash 
 protection, and I didn't like the look of some of the aftermarket ones I've 
 seen.
 cheers
 DaveB
 

------------------------------

From: Michael Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel tanks
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:54:03 -0800 (PST)

 
 After reading that some of the pre 1997 D90 owners were getting over 200 =
 miles per tank full of gas I'm wondering what the actual USEABLE fuel =
 capacity in a pre 1997 D90 is? I ran my 16. gallon tank on my 1997 D90 =
 out of fuel and it would only take 14 gallons to refill  and every time =
 I refill at close to empty it will only take 12 to 13 gallons.  So I've =
 got(according to manufacture ) minimum of 2 gallons of unusable fuel =
 just sitting around collecting sludge. Is my fuel pickup to high ? or is =
 this standard?
 Chris "V" (needing every drop he can find)

Chris,

    My 94 D90 (now sold and replace with a 101FC) would go approx 180-190
miles on tankful with city driving. On the few long highway drives I took
it on, I got 220-225 before rolling into a gas station. I was always able 
to get 16-16.5 gallons in at each fill-up, though I never ran it dry. It
has and 18 gallon tank BTW, so if you're only getting 14 gals useable I'd
definately take it in and check pick up location, you're losing 20+% of your
range.

Rgds
Mike Fredette
Portland, Or 101FC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:33:12 -0500 (EST)
From: kelliott@intranet.ca (Keith Elliott)
Subject: Re: O Glorious Mountians...

>3. You can take these breasts when you pry them from my cold dead hands...
>errr...maybe you shouldn't use number 3...

Jeesh... and I liked #3 the breast er... best!!!!

>Ok, Keith as long as you don't bare YOUR breasts at the B'Day party...

Well you never know what could happen if Dixon brings a couple more Kegs
this year ;)

Keith "Wanna be member of NEA" Elliott
1961 Series II 88" "Ol' Yeller"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:40:03 -0500
From: jberg@hearstnewmedia.com (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: A chat about seats (and NEA comment)

Sleeping on seats--get whatever seats you want--or that your girlfriend
will tolerate (maybe high back Trakkers?)--and use a Thermarest pad to
sleep on. Minimal space, maximum comfort. A wee bit pricey perhaps, but I
wouldn't trade mine for anything...well, almost anything,

Bobeck: Shouldn't the acronym NEA include the word "endowment" somewhere? ;-)

RoverOn!

jab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT
                  jeff@purpleshark.com
                   ==================
	Bimbo-limbo is where I've been...
	I'm looking for a smart woman in a real short skirt
	A smart woman who knows how to flirt
			--Jimmy Buffett, Smart Woman

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:17:37 EST
Subject: Re: Fuel tanks

In a message dated 3/4/98 1:55:37 PM, Mike wrote:

>My 94 D90 (now sold and replace with a 101FC) would go approx 180-190
>miles on tankful with city driving. On the few long highway drives I took
it on, I got 220-225 before rolling into a gas station. I was always able 
to get 16-16.5 gallons in at each fill-up, though I never ran it dry. It
has and 18 gallon tank BTW, so if you're only getting 14 gals useable I'd
>definately take it in and check pick up location, you're losing 20+% of your
>range.

I'll 2nd Mikes words there... I get 16.5 gallons of fuel burned before the
fuel light comes on, and that is usually at 230-240 miles on the odometer on
the hiway. I haven't run it dry either, but I'm hoping there's at least two
gallons in the reserve section. I have yet to determine what the unuseable
part of the 21 (?) gallon tank is... Also, several D90 owners have reported
running of fuel; I wonder why they didn't get the fuel light the 110s and
Diesels have? Maybe 110s got them because they're harder to push to the
station?!

pat
93  110

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel tanks
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:25:42 -0800

Make sure you're talking the same units for D90 fuel capacities.

Remember a US gallon is 3.9 litres & an imperial (rest of the world)
gallon is 4.54 litres.  That's a 15% difference!

Paul.

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 16:36:06 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Fuel tanks

>Remember a US gallon is 3.9 litres & an imperial (rest of the world) 
>gallon is 4.54 litres.  That's a 15% difference!

so then maybe there's no difference between the 3.9 and 4.6l engines?

hmmm...I smell a rat!

a metric rat...

later

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 16:40:15 EST
Subject: Re[2]: A chat about seats (and NEA comment)

>>Bobeck: Shouldn't the acronym NEA include the word "endowment" somewhere? ;-)

Sorry, but it doesn't rhyme with "rifle", however the pun *is* appreciated.

In this case, the term "national endowment" could have serious implications
besides Jesse Helms would never allow it, that fat porkers' got no sense of 
what's *art*.

later

oh yeah no offense to any right wing fat porkers on the list

------------------------------

From: "Christopher J. Clanton" <clantoc@cscoe.ac.com>
Subject: Oil Cap Breather
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:05:38 -0600

I was topping off my oil a couple of days ago (recent owner, only
3 weeks old!), and noticed that I had a "breather-cap" on my oil
fill tube.   Is this normal?  Not that I have any intention of changing
it for the heck of it, but what are the supposed advantages of
this type of cap?  Just curious...

-cjc

P.S. -- As you can tell, I've decided to live with my quarter size
           leak per day.  Someone knock on some wood for me!

*********************************************************
* Christopher Clanton               *   *     Andersen Consulting		
*
* clantoc@cscoe.ac.com           *   *     Minneapolis, MN USA		*
*                                             69 IIa 88				
*
*********************************************************  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:23:51 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: Delayed trips

David Cockey wrote:

>Also, Carl Rogerson writes of a visit to the US; next month will include
>his account of a trip with ROAV.

This was originally to be published last *july* for a trip that took place
last March. (It was Carl's first visit to the US.) Rather than ROAV, it's a
new enterprise we're trying to get off the ground, Appalachian Overland
Adventures...and we have another trip coming up March 21. Along with off
roading, the trip will include a tour of "The Bunker" a formerly
super-secret Congressional bomb shelter built under The Greenbrier during
the early days of the cold war. Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 17:23:56 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: Tanks alot

Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> wrote:

>Or buy a new tank, whop it on, and take 18 months to three years to get
>back to step one.

Yup.  Bought a new one...I was going to do it up *right*.  Five coats of
Rusoleum, three coats undercoat, plus I used this two-part sealer on the
inards.  Result: three years. Damn.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-Rover is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:13:33 EST
Subject: RE: Fuel tanks' gallons

In a message dated 3/4/98 4:27:43 PM, you wrote:

>Make sure you're talking the same units for D90 fuel capacities.

>Remember a US gallon is 3.9 litres & an imperial (rest of the world)
>gallon is 4.54 litres.  That's a 15% difference!

Ooops, my goof! I was using whatever gallons are shown on the gas pumps here
in the US, and assumed that the D90 owners were US Galloners too. So, now I
have to check the published capacity of my NAS 110 fuel tank to see if it is
in US gallons.

Thanks

pat
93 glug-glug-gallons 110

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Bulkhead to Windshield rubber
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:14:47 -0800

	
An easy question.

As you can probably guess, I'm bolting back on the windshield frame.
Does the rubber seal between the bulkhead & windshield glue on to the
bulkhead top or windshield bottom?

Been so long that I can't remember...

Paul in Victoria

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:15:28 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Tanks alot

:-)

So far miones got 8 years and no sign of leaks, rust or problems!

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@primail.pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: headrests
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 98 18:39:42 EST

Re: Headrests and/or high back seats.  As already stated,
Volvo seats are a popular conversion, but you've ruled that out
'cause you can't sleep with them.  Fair enough.  I've ruled them
out 'cause I wouldn't want to have to reach over them (Nige is
a soft top, so the preferred method of entry to the rear tub
is over the font seats rather than untieing the rear flap, etc.).
Ideally, you'd want them to be easily removed and refitted...

I've seen people use jap crap headrests out of (methinks) a Toyota.
The best setup I saw was one that had a custom made bracket that
bolted to the galvanized piece that runs atop the rear bulkhead.  This
bracket was simply a horizontal piece with two more or less vertical
pieces welded to it-each of these were just tubes large enough for 
the headrest "posts" to fit into, and each had a threaded hole in
it with a "wing bolt" (as opposed to a wing nut...ie a bolt you could
tighten with your fingers) in it to set the height of the rest.
Obviously, the angle that these vertical pieces are set on relative
to the horizontal piece is determined by whatever pitch you are
after for your headrest, and likewise the distance between them
is determined by the distance between your headrest posts.

Can't draw for beans.  Don't do ASCII art either...

Visualize.  It's a simple setup.  Start at your local junk yard with
a pair of headrests and go from there.

rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:18:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: A chat about seats, etc. (long)

At 05:55 PM 3/4/98 +0300, you wrote:
>Question is, has anybody seen something like this done? If not,
>do you find the method feasible? If not, can you suggest a solution
>that satisfies the two constraints? (original seats + easily removable
>and remountable head supports)

Being far too lazy to deal with undoing the bolts, I would recommend a
couple of tubes attached to the back of the seats, and headrests with
slightly-smaller-diameter tubes to fit into them, much like modern cars
have.  Then, to utilize the seats as a bed, all you have to do is lift the
headrest out of the tubes on the seat backs.

You could even drill holes crosswise on the seat back tubes and insert a
cotter pin at the appropriate point to adjust the headrest height.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/

------------------------------

From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 5 Mar 1998 04:37:13 -0000
Subject: Re: List content

Hi Nate, 

Thanks for your note (below), but there are probably a few things you
don't see.

Every time some trash gets sent to the list, there is a little wave of 
people who get pissed off and unsubscribe, I can't blame them, everyone
has some limit.  Second, if you were ever unfortunate enough to be on the
sending end of one of these islands of garbage, my stern warnings would
likely be one of the more polite messages you'd receive in response.
Third, if you get the list by digest, you probably never see the 
initial garbage or the subsequent replys, because I've gone of and
deleted them before the digest was mailed.

You may not value how topical this list is, until you've had to live with
the alternative.   (And, I don't consider roadkill off topic :-)

Neophytes, and foreigners I try to be more tolerant of, but there's got
to be a call of where the line is.  If you don't read the notes sent in
response to the subscribe message, or understand the list is about 
Land Rovers, then the lesson will come the hard way. Most of the time
it takes 20 minutes to a half hour to go and clean up the digest before
it is distributed to remove the offending material.  It is bad enough
250 people get it, if it wasn't cleaned up twice or three times that
many would get it the following day in the digest, and then they'd
reply too, and there is this big sucking sound.  

I generally don't get involved in opinion wars or political
correctness, except to warn parties on either extreme they ought to
be cautious. Without vigilance, you end up with a lot of noise, or
a usenet group delivered by e-mail. Either of which would be of
great detriment to the perceived value of this forum.

Cheers, 
  Bill

Nate (NADdMD@aol.com) on  Thu Mar 05 1998 writes:
"Hi Bill,"

"Just my observations.  Although I agree in principle with all you have
written, I feel that the spirit of the list is somewhat loose about strict
adherence to relavence.  I have no problem with this as long as the wanderings
don't become too frequent or too obtuse.  As an email list, many of us are not
as computer savy as you and some of the others.  Therefore, I do think
warnings (perhaps unnecessarily) to members of an email list about a potential
email virus are as relavant as descriptions of whimsical and questionably
humorous descriptions of devices for scooping up and cooking roadkill."

"I know you are careful about administering justice, but I did want to point
out that many of these posts are good intentioned."

"Nate"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 22:51:26 -0800
From: Dave Place <dplace@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Air Filter clogged?

I have driving my 69 88 IIA for the past month with no air filter
canister and it goes like a new vehicle.  I put the filter back on early
this week and it doesn't have the "poop" it had.  Do those old oil bath
type filters get clogged up and have to be bathed or should I retune it
with the air filter attached.  I put a diesel crank in my petrol engine
so the timing marks mean nothing, therefore I tune by setting the timing
to the highest vacuum I can get which is 21" of Hg.  That is what the
book says is new engine specs.  At this vacuum, it runs great, starts
great and has lots of power.  It also has to be filterless to get it.
Any suggestions?
P.S. I haven't forgotten I promised to post some pics of my 88 called
Yabba.  Why Yabba?  Well my daughter couldn't say Land Rover when young
but always called it Yabba since it reminded her of Yabba dubba do when
Fred drove the Flintstone vehicle, so Yabba it became. Rather than
"Yabba" it is "The Yabba".
Dave VE4PN

------------------------------

From: "The Stockdales" <mstockdale@mho.net>
Subject: All about the names
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:13:48 -0700

If you saw my original  post; I requested that you not flood the list with
your replies on the names of your rovers.  So far I have compiled about 50,
from both direct submissions, and the list.  I will be sending the list of
names back to the list this weekend.  The project came out of my curiosity
of the signatures you all leave with your postings.  I had hoped more would
submit a name, along with the model and year of your rover.  Some of the
submissions I have revived also include a brief description of how the name
was generated.  All of this has been great fun and interest, especially
those replies form various places around the world.

If you haven't yet, please send the name of your rover to mstockdale@mho.net
by Friday March 6th, 1998

Mitch and the Red Dinosaur

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:23:11 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Subject: Re: Air Filter clogged?

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Dave Place wrote:

 I have driving my 69 88 IIA for the past month with no air filter
 canister and it goes like a new vehicle.  I put the filter back on early
 this week and it doesn't have the "poop" it had.  Do those old oil bath
 type filters get clogged up and have to be bathed or should I retune it

It certainly wouln't hurt anything to clean it, and make sure the oil
level is correct.  The oil-bath filter is said to be restrictive at higher
rpms, so I wouldn't be suprised to lose some velocity at lower speeds. 
You might consider a different air filter.  People have been to put a K&N
style open element on the air cleaner elbow.  Looks odd, but seems to
work.  You absolutly want some filter though!

 As for your timing, it is pretty easy to find TDC, even without marks. 
Pull the number one plug (and the others, if you don't want a workout). 
Take off the distributor cap. Find a wooden dowel that will fit through
the plug hole, and is long enough it won't get lost inside the cylinder. 
Use the handcrank to spin the engine.  Your dowel should move up and down; 
when it is at the very top of its cycle, you are either at TDC or 180
degress off.  Check that the rotor is pointing to the number one wire. 
Score a mark on pulley, and the front cover, assuming you don't have the
finger pointer.  I don't see anything wrong with timing a Land-Rover by
ear, or vaccum, but it is sort of nice to know what the timing is, if only
to see if it changes. 

David

Don't forget 

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: Source for rebuilt llA gearbox
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:40:59 +1000

K. John Wood wrote:

>he is a Silihull trained Rover Tech

>He's a great guy with lots of knowledge on Series vehicles.

I hope he's also got a sense of humour 8-)

Ron

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: : +ve earth (was generator-alternator switch)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:34:18 +1000

Steve Mace asks:
>Could anybody please explain why +ve earth was ever first used!

I recall that when I was at tech college (electronics) back in the
mid-Sixties, one of our instructors told us that positive earth had two
advantages:
1.  the centre terminal of the spark plug was negative with respect to
ground.  As anyone with an electronics background in radio valves (tubes to
NAS readers) can tell you, a hot negative electrode will emit electrons much
more easily.  e.g., the hot cathode of a radio valve.  Therefore, the spark
will be easier to generate on a + earth system.  This may have been critical
in old cars of the day.  I think it may have been a British thing *and* that
is *not* a derogatory comment.  The Brits came up with some excellent
reasons for doing stuff.

2. That terminal corrosion is reduced on + earth systems.

Any comments?

Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, NSW, Australia (02) 4735-6883
Editor, Hillman Owners Club of Australia Newsletter
check my home page at http://www.users.bigpond.com/hillman
for Hillman and Rover

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:03:24 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Subject: Re: : +ve earth (was generator-alternator switch)

On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Ron Beckett wrote:

> 1.  the centre terminal of the spark plug was negative with respect to
> ground.  As anyone with an electronics background in radio valves (tubes to
> NAS readers) can tell you, a hot negative electrode will emit electrons much
> more easily.  e.g., the hot cathode of a radio valve.  Therefore, the spark
> will be easier to generate on a + earth system.  This may have been critical
> in old cars of the day.  I think it may have been a British thing *and* that
> is *not* a derogatory comment.  The Brits came up with some excellent
> reasons for doing stuff.

The spark thing makes some sense.  It isn't only a British thing, there
was American stuff with positive ground, even post-war.  Some models of 
Ford tractors were available as either +ve or -ve.  But everything was -ve
well before the Brits got settled.  

David

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: Series 3 2.25 L diesel - should I buy
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:27:23 +1000

Ron Beckett wrote:

>> I'm afraid my wife doesn't understand why I want it, so I won't be
getting
>> it.  And it looked OK too.

     John and Muddy wrote:

>Come on Ron  you know what (who) really has to go!!!
> Remember Trigger

Hmm, tomorrow Elisabeth is flying up to Surfer's Paradise for a few days
holiday.  I wonder if I could sneak it home before she gets back.  She did
say, in reference to the owners request for A$1750 (with apologies to the
film "The Castle") "Tell him he's dreaming, offer him $1500"

Ron Beckett

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 01:54:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter  Doncaster <pd116@columbia.edu>
Subject: Any lro's in Vienna?

I have to go to Vienna next week on business. Any LRO's on the list from
there, if so, I'd like to get together for a beer, and see the local Land
Rovers. Please e-mail direct.

Peter Doncaster
'64 IIA 88" SW

http://www.columbia.edu/~pd116/

------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:35:27 +0100
From: Peter Thoren <Peter.Thoren@genetik.uu.se>
Subject: subscribe

Please subscribe me to the Landrover Owner mailing list

--------------------------------------
Peter Thoren 
Långmyrtorp
740 20 Vänge
018-39 20 56
peter.thoren@genetik.uu.se
--------------------------------------

------------------------------

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