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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:11:06 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Favorite cause

East Coast Rover Co. wrote:
>         In an effort to have some fun, and do something good. For this
> years Owls Head Rover Rally, Aug. 8-9. We are looking to assist some good
> cause during the event. Maybe a small fee at the gate, or maybe bring some
> cans of food, toys, you know that sort of thing, strictly for some
> Non-profit cause.
>         So the question is... What cause do most Rover owners agree on? Any
> ideas? The Harley Davidson riders in Maine do a huge toy drive... I think
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> we can help out some people too!
>         Only guideline... must be a US or North American organization.

------------------------------

From: "Huub Pennings" <HPS@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:24:59 +0100
Subject:       Bottom line of a rover... 

Hello Sandy,

            you considered $1,000 to be the bottom line for a rover. 
Well at the auction I visited the 29 of februari, the Belgion army 
sold 2 lot's of 6, 2x4 '88 SIII of 1975 petrol, damaged, rusty, non 
runners, for 20.000 Bfr. This is aprox. 500Us$ per six............
I was tempted, but I didn't buy them, but then again there is 
another auction coming up in march............
I won't go, I think, just use common sense.
 
Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:39:58 +0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: Re: Stupid question about axles

Hi Mark & all

Hey, I see you actually bought a Land-Rover! After your review (long ago) I
thought we had lost you to the T*y*ta crowd :-) [1]

>Here's my stupid question for the day: Are all axles within a series the
>same between 88's and 109's with the exception of the backing plates and
>brakes? If I take an 88 axle and put 109 brakes on it will it be a 109
>axle?

Well Mark, yes and no. [2] The front axles are the same, but the mounting
points for the springs differ, because the springs hang under the 88 chassis
but next to the 109 chassis.

Wouter

[1] See my web page, users.iafrica.com/w/wr/wrm/landy.html, a blue "this"
somewhere near the top of the page ISTR.

[2] Somewhat of an SA inside joke, I think.

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Subject: Seating tyre beads and TAS press day
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:54:00 -0500

Many, many years ago, in the far mists of time the small garage where I
worked had a device for seating beads. It was an inflatable tube about 2
inch diameter inside a braided cover. You put the deflated tube around
the tyre, circumferentially, tied the ends of the braid together and
inlated the tube, this made the braid tighten and the beads of the tyre
spread out so that enough of a seal was made to let air put into the
tyre blow them into full seating.
I've since used the same principle with just a length of rope and a
spanish windlass to spread the beads enough to seat them. Always seat
the bead then deflate and reinflate especially on tubed tyres where you
want to be sure you haven't trapped the tube under a bead.

BTW The press day at Toronto Auto Show Media Day was a disappointment
for LRC. Due to timing conflicts with several other events a total of 4
members of the press visited to view and ride the Land Rovers. Still we
all had fun on the demo track and will enjoy our new Land Rover 50 year
shirts.

Trevor"The wax is now  nice and muddy " Easton

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 09:09:56 EST
Subject: Re: Seating tyre beads and TAS press day

>I've since used the same principle with just a length of rope and a spanish 
>windlass 

so how do you keep the spanish windlass form unraveling and bonking you?
just curious

DaveB

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:16:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Seating tyre beads and TAS press day

Re: Bonking the spanish windlass:

SImple enough, it would seem to me - use a fairly long pole and wind it
vertically, then lay the tyre down and let its weight hold the windlass
pole to the ground.

What would really do the job here, it seems to me, is a ratcheting
load-binder strap - I'm going to try this in the next few weeks on a
tubeless tyre.

I know, I know - tubeless is not a good idea - but it's what I run.

If I can't do it, though, I will most probably buy one or two radial tyre
tubes and carry them for repairs of this nature.

                    aj"Opinions?"r

------------------------------

From: Gregspitz@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:42:58 EST
Subject:  Sighting:Boston Green D90

saw a green 94 D90 while traveling in boston by Fanueil(sp?) Hall area...it
had stainless steel wing protectors and a soft top...anybody on the list?  I
saw you but traffic was heavy so it was difficult to say HI.

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:42:56 EST
Subject: Re: Seating tyre beads and tubeless tyres

In a message dated 2/13/98 9:21:00 AM, "Opinions?" wrote:

>I know, I know - tubeless is not a good idea - but it's what I run.

Soon, I will be running tubeless too. Right now, I've got the OEM tubed tyres,
but the dealer from whom I'm getting my next set (bfg tracedges) suggested
against putting tubes in the new tyres as they apparently create more heat (?)
or are less efficient at dissipating it (hmmm?). Anyway, I guess I don't air
down to ridiculously low pressures very often, so I am currently not planning
on putting tubes in. I still like the idea of tubes, though. 

Anything *really wrong* with putting a tube in a tubeless tyre?

>If I can't do it, though, I will most probably buy one or two radial tyre
>tubes and carry them for repairs of this nature.

That's why I like tubes. Just keep patching those patches...
(I grew up with "Vulcanizing Shops" scattered all over the countryside, even
in the smallest village, one could usually find a shop with an electric iron
and some tire levers. The most remote places put pieces of coal in a small
iron to heat the tubes for the patch. These shops were identifiable by either
a 55gal drum cut in half with water in it to find the leak or half of a rear
tractor tyre to do it; no mechanized bead breakers either. And they used a
bicycle pump to re-inflate even the cane truck tyres!)

pat "more opinions, please" parsons
93  110

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:50:38 EST
Subject: Technical Service Bulletins

In another "there's cr*p on the tv" moment, I found a sort-of recall page on
the web. Some may find it useful. I'm thinking of having my dealer print out
my truck's service history to see if the data I found on the web and what
they've done to it match. I'd be very curious to know.

<A HREF="http://www.alldata.com/consumer/TSB/">Automotive Recalls and
Technical Service Bullet </A> or use this URL:
http://www.alldata.com/consumer/TSB/

pat
93  110

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:52:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Lorri Paustian <lorri@sound.net>
Subject: Re: Favorite cause

At 08:30 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>...We are looking to assist some good cause during the event. Maybe a small
fee at the gate, or maybe bring some
>cans of food, toys, you know that sort of thing, strictly for some
>Non-profit cause.
>        So the question is... What cause do most Rover owners agree on? Any
>ideas? The Harley Davidson riders in Maine do a huge toy drive... I think
>we can help out some people too!
>        Only guideline... must be a US or North American organization.
>Helping out overseas is cool, but we have some people here that need help
>too.
>        Any ideas?

Mike,
Since you opened this to the general public and not just those attending
Owls Head, I'd like to suggest some cause to assist animals.  Realizing that
the wonderful wilderness that brings us all to love off-roading in the first
place is diminishing at a rapid rate, I think this would go hand-in-hand
with those of us that are into Rovers.  This could be toward saving animals
from extinction, donating toward a wildlife preserve, helping the humane
society, etc.
My .02 worth.

Lorri Paustian, Flatland Rover Society
Lenexa, Kansas
'95 Coniston Green D90 SW
'95 Arles Blue D90 SW

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 10:50:31 EST
Subject: Re: Technical Service Bulletins

>In another "there's cr*p on the tv" moment, I found a sort-of recall page on 
>the web.

Yes! I saw this too. It seems though that you have to buy the CD-ROM to get the 
actuall bulletins. The website just tells you what they are. I guess it coiuld 
be worth the price, whatever it is.
I didn't post anything about this 'cos I figgered everyone'd seen it already.

cheers
DaveB

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 10:48:05 EST
Subject: Re: Sighting:Boston Green D90

>saw a green 94 D90 while traveling in boston by Fanueil(sp?) Hall area...it 
>had stainless steel wing protectors and a soft top...anybody on the list?  I 
>saw you but traffic was heavy so it was difficult to say HI.

Dude what is the point. I see at least 3 D90's everyday. They're about as 
common as dirt around these parts. I mean i like them and all, but its like 
saying "I saw a yuppie downtown".

Just my not so humble opinion

DaveB
Arlington AKA Yuppyville VA
SIII 88" Green HELL

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:22:49 EST
Subject: Re: Technical Service Bulletins

In a message dated 2/13/98 10:53:56 AM, Dave wrote:

>Yes! I saw this too. It seems though that you have to buy the CD-ROM to get
the
>actuall bulletins. The website just tells you what they are. I guess it
coiuld
>be worth the price, whatever it is.
>I didn't post anything about this 'cos I figgered everyone'd seen it already.

I looked a bit more into it, and they don't as yet have CDs for Land Rover
Vehicles :-(. i thought it would be neat to have that info available to us
(yeah, I guess it is copyright infringement or something), but I borrow books
from my friends all the time, so I figured having the CD or the notes would
benefit some owners of newer rovers, or their non-lrna fixit shops.

maybe I can con my local dealer out of some of the bulletins*, after all, they
must be public domain info, right? We'll see what happens.

pat.
93  110

*many of them appear to applicable to more than just the 90 or the 110.

------------------------------

From: "FHYap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Seating tyre beads and tubeless tyres
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:16:22 -0800

> Soon, I will be running tubeless too. Right now, I've got the OEM tubed
tyres,
> but the dealer from whom I'm getting my next set (bfg tracedges)
suggested
> against putting tubes in the new tyres as they apparently create more
heat (?)
> or are less efficient at dissipating it (hmmm?). 

Most tyre shops (and maybe your dealer) do not recommend tubes in tubeless
because of problems in using regular tubes.  Regular tubes in radial tyres
are a no-no.  When I went looking for tubes, I was surprised to find that
many of the shops didn't know there was a difference between radial and
regular tubes.  And, the high quality Michelin radial tubes are virtually
unobtainable here. (I couldn't even get them from Michelin.  Safari Gard is
the only place that I found who claimed to have Michelin tubes but they
wouldn't sell them to me.  I guess they save them for those who buy their
tyres.)  I have been using no-name radial tubes (from a truck tyre shop) in
Radial Rover R/T 215/86R16s for the past year.

Frank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:30:43 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Favorite cause

Mike Smith wrote:
> Dear all,
>         In an effort to have some fun, and do something good. For this
> years Owls Head Rover Rally, Aug. 8-9. We are looking to assist some good
> cause during the event. Maybe a small fee at the gate, or maybe bring some
> cans of food, toys, you know that sort of thing, strictly for some
> Non-profit cause.
>         So the question is... What cause do most Rover owners agree on? Any
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
>         Any ideas?
> Mike;  Kids oriented would be great, maybe the Wish Foundation, or some 
such. See ya at the next Owls Head!!

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:32:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Sighting:Boston Green D90

Dave,

Up here in the Hub Of The Universe 8*) they are nowhere near as common -
Discos and Rangies maybe, but Defenders are still kinda rare...

Probably because no one in his right mind wants to operate a ragtop in a
Boston winter.....8*)

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:40:57 -0800
From: bobnsueb@maxinet.com (Bob and Sue Bernard)
Subject: PTO for sale

Hi all,
With the recent topic about PTO's, I decided to let it be known that I have
one I would sell.
It is the rear mount pto that goes into the hole where the overdrive can go.

It is the PTO unit, no other things like rear capstans or driveshafts.

Complete with the top part containing the shift fork. 
But the rod to go into the seat compartment is missing. The previous owner
shifted through the seatbox center hole.

I would like to get $100.00 US for it and you pay shipping cost.

I'm in Northern California

Bob Bernard

  
Bob Bernard <bobnsueb@maxinet.com>
Paradise,CA. 530-877-2749
69-88 "Sherman"
65-88 "Olivia"
51-80 "Shorty"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:39:06 +0000
From: Axel Pawlik <axelpawlik@tinet.ie>
Subject: Starter detail, SIIA Diesel

Hello everybody,

  after the starter developed problems, i.e. not turning
the engine, but making a nice buzzing sound, I started to
take the thing apart on the kitchen table...

  What I found odd, on taking off the solenoid, is that
the plunger came off the main starter housing very easily,
revealing a displaced pin at the very top (between the two 
holding stubs).

  Now, being a complete novice to these things, I presume
that this little pin is meant to hold on to the starter 
engagement lever, pulling it to engage the starter pinion.
Having slipped out of one of its bearings, it might have
come off the lever, and thus been unable to engage the
pinion.

  Does this sound real? Does it make sense? What escapes 
me is the purpose of the spring operated little cylinder
that pushes towards the pin (and engagement lever). Why 
not just hook the plunger to the lever? What is that
cylinder used for?

  I don't have a parts catalogue yet. Is anybody out there
who could supply me with the parts numbers for the plunger
and the starter cover band? The latter's rubberish part has
pretty much desintegrated.

  Any more parts I should replace while I'm at it?

	thanks,   Axel

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:56:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:  Engine conversions

four cyl *volvo* turbodiesel? The one they had in the cars was a VW mill and
six cyls. Stay away from that dog! I own several cores. John Dorr
(phdorr@AOL.com) has a four cyl Iron Duke that he just took out of a truck.
Kinda pricy, but very nice. Write him and see.  
As far as the turbo diesel goes, if its not the VW thing, and makes at least
100 horses, might be worth looking into.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS
LROA #1095
SoLaRoS #23
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: re: 110 prices (was Re: Observations ...)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:15:05 -0800

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:32:22 -0800
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: 110 prices (was Re: Observations ...)

>So, it does seem like the days of the sellers getting $5-6K more than
the paid for them may have drawn to a close--at least if they've
actually driven the car.  I know of one local 110 whose owner is
treating it like a rare vehicle (which, of course, they are), and he may
end up with something that works out as a good investment.

On the other hand, a friend of mine recently purchased a used D-110
trade-in from the local Land Rover dealer for about $60K  (it sold new
for $38K)..  It had a little over  30K miles on it from at least two
previous owners.  It is in excellent condition except the 5-speed manual
transmission was going (same problem as the faulty units installed in
Discoveries) so the dealer said he would replace it (don't know if
that's happened yet).  My friend has always wanted a Land Rover, was
willing to pay anything to get one, and has stated his intention to
never take it off pavement, and maybe not even out of Seattle.  He is
regarding it as an investment.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:42:26 EST
Subject: re: (ridiculous)110 prices (was Re: Observations ...)

In a message dated 2/13/98 8:15:47 PM, Marin wrote:

>My friend has always wanted a Land Rover, was
>willing to pay anything to get one, and has stated his intention to
>never take it off pavement, and maybe not even out of Seattle.  He is
>regarding it as an investment.

he is either the <smartest> lro I've heard of, or the <dum*est>, i'm still
trying to figure out which. only time will tell, eh? irregardless of whether
or not it gets dirt on the wheels, or its seats far*ed on, it will eventually
have to come down to the majority of 110s' values, as there *will* be others
with 20K or 30K miles selling for way less than $60K... Someone ought to place
it on the FAQ page; new land rovers are not wise investments; even those
sealed in cosmoline and waxoyl. All they are is slightly rare, and even that
doesn't guarantee a profitable return on the investment (after all, it has to
be insured for that amount, plus gas, maintenance, etc.) But as someone else
pointed out, "for every seat, there's a butt" or something...

hmm... a 110 with 30K miles on it and a bad tranny** for $60K? I could have
bought the other one here in miami for less (less than $40K) and it has fewer
(27K) miles on it, and still made some pizza money on the side.

pat
93 "dow jones?" 110

**that's what happens to Land Rovers if they never see dirt, right? tie a rope
from your SIII (or the RR) and pull him off the pavement ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:59:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Favorite cause

At 08:30 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>        So the question is... What cause do most Rover owners agree on? Any
>ideas? The Harley Davidson riders in Maine do a huge toy drive... I think
>we can help out some people too!

I've always felt that adults can either help themselves, or it's too late
for them.  (Callus, I know, but I've only got so much time and $) so I
concentrate on preventing the problem in the first place.  That means kids.  

Toys are good, but perhaps raising money for schools to buy supplies and
such...  Or orphanages?  (My father grew up in a great orphanage -- they
really took care of the kids and helped them out.)  

I spend a fair bit of time and money getting computer stuff into Rachel's
classroom, and supporting her and the other teachers at her school.
Teachers really work their butts off, too; don't let this
"9-to-3-with-summers-off" myth fool you; most teachers (good ones, anyway)
are there from 7:30 to 5:30, and they work weekends and summers.  Rachel
gets to school *before* 7am and almost never leaves before 5, generally 6
or so.  Then she goes home and works more.  She puts in at least 8 hours on
the weekends, and works full-time in the summer.  She spends something like
$3K or $4K per year on supplies -- because the schools don't provide it.
(Every fall, we're at Target at 8am to get the pencil boxes, pencils,
crayons, scissors, and so on when they go on sale.)

Oops, sorry.  </EduRant>  Anyway, My first choice is always education.
Toys for tots are cool, but stimulate their minds and they'll make their
own toys.  (We did.)  Another, similar option (and not contrary to my first
paragraph) is Adult literacy programs.  (It's people who are honestly
trying to help themselves.)  I did that for quite a while too.

If you want to hit closer to home, there are lots of environmental orgs
that could use the help.  My first choice would probably be the Nature
Conservancy (in order to prevent land from being developed on, they buy
it.)  Sierra Club is good, but not always popular with off-highway drivers.
 Tread Lightly! could be another option.  Natural Resources Defence
Council(?).  I'm sure you could find plenty by searching the web.

As for overseas, Rachel's sister-in-law is from the philippines, out in the
provinces...  Suffice it to say she does not have a very high opinion of
those "20-cents-a-day-buys-this-brat-a-hot-dog-and-a-coke" outfits.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:12:52
From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Stuck half-shaft.

It would appear that the front axle caseing is bent. It is (I understand)
usually tthe long side that is prone to bending. I have just recentaly
found this out the hard way. I removed the half-shaft with a rubber (hard)
faced mallet. I am now waiting for my new caseing to be delivered. Is there
an easy (cheap) way to straighten the old one?

Jim Wolf

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:21:46 EST
Subject: Re: Favorite cause

In a message dated 2/13/98 8:54:41 PM, you wrote:

>As for overseas, Rachel's sister-in-law is from the philippines, out in the
>provinces...  Suffice it to say she does not have a very high opinion of
>those "20-cents-a-day-buys-this-brat-a-hot-dog-and-a-coke" outfits.

As for myself, I'm from the philippines and have an equally low opinion of
those organizations. (Don't even ask about "missionaries"... )

Uncle Roger makes some good points with the litreacey porgrams and the
evironmental preservation. As for the toys deal, maybe if the event was closer
to christmas when there are kids expecting something. The "bring a tin of
food" idea is fairly simple logistically, in that the cans are collected and
then dropped off at a social welfare shelter (isn't that Canada ;-) ). Also
takes the whole thing of writing receipts for donations, etc. easier, doesn't
it?

Another .02 for the thread.

--pat.

------------------------------

From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:15:33 EST
Subject: ATTN: Washington DC Area Rover Team

i will be going to second mtn on sunday or monday(if that is when other people
can go) i will be at the gas station(in text following) at 10am ish.

TEXT AS FOLLOWS:::::::::::::::::::::::::
if i were able to go, (can't, still in idaho)
i'd suggest meeting at the first gas station to the west of the
rt 81/33 interchange in harrisonburg.

keep in mind that if a large group is going, it's better to
enter from the 2nd mountain road/old long run from sr 612 
(might be 613) since technically the other entrance is a
private road.

i don't think people care if one or two vehicles go that way,
but a convoy would definitely get their attention
(and lead to the gate being locked)

old long road is well marked on the delorme va atlas.

let me know if the other roads back on gauley ridge have
an open gate, i haven't gotten to explore that area yet
because of gate closures.

you can enter either at the bottom of FR 72 or go to the
intersection of FR72 and gauley ridge then turn right ...

it's great going either way.  could turn into a nightmare
run if there's a lot of stream erosion...

cheers,

lito
email me asap if interested 
RGDS, Rick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:25:15 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Technical Service Bulletins

SPYDERS@aol.com wrote:

> I looked a bit more into it, and they don't as yet have CDs for Land Rover
> Vehicles :

> maybe I can con my local dealer out of some of the bulletins*, after all, they
> must be public domain info, right?

Nope, and the AllData doesn't have all the TSBs or many of the more recent
ones.AllData and such firms contract with manufacturer's for the printing rights
to
the bulletins... and they don't necessarily get everything.  They tend to be more
useful for the slightly older vehicles as typically serviced at independent rather
than
dealership shops.

cheers

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: re: What rear end do I have?
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:46:51 +1100

Christopher J. Clanton wrote:

>Thanks for going easy on me Jeff.  Re-reading the post, I guess I did
>leave myself pretty open for abuse.  Don't worry, tough skin on this
>end!

Which end?

Regards,

Ron

------------------------------

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