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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:04:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Ammeter range conversion / wire gauges for 12-volt service

Peter, this isn't an easy thing to do - it takes steady hands and a fine
touch.

What I essentially did was to reduce the magnetic field inside the meter to
reduce the vane movement.

If you remove one of these meters from the triple-gauge, you'll see it's
constructed essentially as I described - a wire loop and a magnetic vane.
We're going to leave the vane alone, but the loop is fair game.

The loop is anchored to the end pieces by a fork/split in the end pieces,
which has the wire inserted into it and is then staked /resistance welded
to hold the wire in place. Rather than go to all that trouble, I used a
pair of dikes and cut the wire away from the end posts. I then sawed
through the split in the mountings and filed away the old wire best I
could, without disturbing the relation of the posts to the vane. A new
piece of 12 AWG solid wire was then cut to fit between the posts WITHOUT A
LOOP (essentially reducing the length of the wire by 2/3), placed between
the forks and silver-soldered into place with a Micronox torch.

Like I said, this ain't for the faint of heart - or those with caffiene
shakes....8*)

I tested it on a resistor bank, and my initial guess on what the
calibration was to be was right - it ended up about X3 of the original.

And for those objecting to pushing 60 amps through a 12 AWG wire - realize
that 60 amps at 13.8 volts is only 828 watts - a 20-amp residential service
at 115 volts is pushing 2.3KW through essentially the same wire.  If you
look at a GM harness you'll realize that the 12 AWG wire is not far off

these alternators.

Do the math - the wire cross-section and such is well within acceptable
parameters. it would be better if it was stranded, but that would make a
right proper mess of the magnetic field, wouldn't it?

               ajr/Mr. Churchill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:47:06 +0700 (ICT)
From: "John M. Baker" <jbaker@ksc8.th.com>
Subject: Installing Dist/Cam Gear (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:18:19 +0700 (ICT)
From: "John M. Baker" <jbaker@ksc8.th.com>
Subject: Installing Dist/Cam Gear (fwd)

Posted below a few days ago and did not see any response. Would be very
grateful to anyone who could answer my question (s) re timing. Thanks, 

John Baker
Bangkok

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:59:15 +0700 (ICT)
From: "John M. Baker" <jbaker@ksc8.th.com>
Subject: Installing Dist/Cam Gear

Have another technical question here concerning the dist/cam gear and
engine timing. Hope I am not disturbing any list subscribers with a
technical question of this sort:)

I have a 109 Station Wagon (1976) with the 2.25 petrol engine. I have the
type of timing pointer which has three points, a gap, and then another
point (as pictured on page 3.12 of the Haynes Service and Repair Manual).
Under the installation procedure on pages 1.15 and 1.16 another timing
point with three evenly spaced pointers is shown. Question is as follows:
The Haynes book is really confusing as to where to line up the mark on the
crankshaft pulley with which point on the timing pointer. In different
sections it says use different pointers depending on the fuel you are
using, in another it says it is dependent on the octane of fuel you are
using, and
in yet another it talks about LRs equipped with pollution control
equipment! For starters, I have no pollution control equipment (Thailand).
I am also not sure if I have an 8:1 or 7:1 head. I would appreciate any
advice on which pointer I should line up with the pulley mark when
installing the dist/cam gear. I should mention that I will probably be
using 88 plus octane no lead fuel over here. Thanks in advance for any
help!

One more thing, I am now an expert on installing the dist/cam gear getting
the hole to line up with the grub screw! Several tips I learned the hard
way:

1. It is possible to drive the assembly in too deep and the hole in the
bush will be too low for the grub screw. Knock it down slowly and feel for
the hole with a small implement of some sort inserted through the grub
screw hole.

2. If the bush is too tight in the bore you will never get it up again
(the dist/cam gear assembly that is) if
you make a mistake, and will have to remove the pan and oil pump to knock
it back out. My original unit was a good slip fit, my new replacement was
not. I used some very fine emery paper to smooth it down a bit to where it
slipped in but did not move from side to side, which makes lining up the
hole easier.

3. Inserting a wooden dowel into the shaft of the dist/cam gear allows you
to easily remove it if you don't line the hole up right, which will almost
certainly be the case a number of times, unless you are much luckier or
smarter than I am! Once the grub screw is in you can wiggle the stick out.

4. If for any reason you decide to try to remove the c-clip inside, it
will probably break (don't even ask why I know this!)

Regards,

John Baker
Bangkok

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:17:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Installing Dist/Cam Gear (fwd)

Hohn,

The basic settings are as follows(per the old manual)

For a 7:1 engine running Premium fuel, 6 BTDC (third one back before the
notch)
Regular fuel calls for 3 BTDC
Anything uglier than that - adjust it till it stops pinging....8*(
If you're engine's new enough to have the pointer on the front cover, time
it with a light at 800 RPM warm with the vacuum disconnected.

For an 8:1 engine, manual calls for 6 ATDC and doesn't call out as much
info on the octanes.

Personally, I run 89 octane fuel in a 7:1 at about 9BTDC, adjusted at
800RPM with the vacuum to the distributor disconnected.
The LR settings are conservative - Jim Allen's done plug chop tests and
says that up to 10 or 12 degrees can sometimes be used.

               ajr/Mr. C.

------------------------------

From: Tony Treace <atreace@HASimons.com>
Subject: RE: Selectro hubs
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:23:35 -0800

> I'm going to be tearing into to front end of my '65 IIA and well, does
> anyone have any tips on how to get past a set of selectro hubs?  

	On mine, you just remove the two or three little screws on the
side of the rotating cap to get at the castle nut on the front axle.
	 
> They look simple enough (relative to other makes of hub I've
> dismantled) but 
> I haven't been able to locate any schematics or gasket kits for these 
> buggers.  Any hints, tips, techniques, words of wisdom, advice, or 
> warnings would be greatly appreciated.

	Try British Bulldog at 888-874-3888. Their Fall 1997 flyer
advertised Selectro hubs for $99.95/pair. Maybe they have rebuild kits
as well.

	Hope this helps,
	Tony Treace
	atreace@hasimons.com

	1967 109 SW
	1951 80 HT 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:31:35 -0500
From: ps4330@okc01.jccbi.gov (Peter Schauss x 2014)
Subject: importing

My son is currently studying at the Univeristy of Madrid and has
suggested the possibility that we try to import a Land Rover.  He
says that they are quite common in Spain and thinks that we should
be able to get one for a good price. 

>From my reading of the Land Rover web site, as well as the U.S.
Customs Service site, it appears that if I get a 1973 or earlier
with a diesel engine I should be able to bring it in and register it
without any problems.   Has anyone on the list actually done this?
If so, I would be interested to hear how you did it.

Thanks,

Peter (do I realy need another British car?) Schauss
ps4330@okc01.jccbi.gov
schauss@worldnet.att.net
1963 Austin-Healey 3000 Mk II
1980 MGB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:56:42 -0800
From: John Hong <jhong@best.com>
Subject: OVLR Dork Tari Award

snippy
>It is to be painted, he continues: "BARBIE CORVETTE PINK"
snippy
>Pictures for all of us to view (and judge) will, no doubt, be posted at
>some website like www.badtasterovercompetition.com.  The prize for the
>winner of this competition should be a tasteful velvet painting of Elvis.

Connecticut Commie Yankee Man tips his feeble pinko plan!   HAH!
You're going to use a toy design esthetic and expect to win?!?!  Against
moi???
Why don't you just concede the title, don't waste the pink paint and consider 
donating it for the Clinton Presidential Library.

Do you know where I was the last couple of days???   
I was IN LAS VEGAS at the LIBERACE MUSEUM  by personal invitation from the
Curator!  
Do you even know what a sequin is?   Or the role it can play in the
automotive decorative vocabulary?
Who do you think came up with the purple neon light under your car
concept???   ahem...

I am also consulting with the Hormel Corporation for their upcoming
Performance Art Segment
"Mary had a little lamb wham baaam thank you spam BLueCan i am..."

As for the judging, apologies Paul Denver but I do believe this is the
jurisdiction of the OVLR OTT committee.
You wanna judge something, start your own contest.  You an OVLR member or
you wun of them commies two?
As for your prize suggestion/offer...yeah right, "tasteful
velvet"...sheesh, is that with or without UV paint??   NOw a lamb tongue or
tuna eyeball sealed in resin for a paperweight...that's a prize!

Scotty beam me up NOW!  I am surrounded by commie pinko amateurs!!!

------------------------------

From: rovah@agate.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:01:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Offer to post "how to" write ups....

Seems like lots of good advice on how to do certain projects lately.  If
anyone would like to have details and pics on a certain aspect of Rover
care posted on the web, the DELRC would be happy to do it.  Just e-mail me
text and JPGs and I'll put it up.  Alternator conversions, storage devices,
routine service.  Anything that seems to be a recurring theme on the
internet list.
      I know that I do a lot better with visual information(pics and
diagrams), than I do with a verbal/written description.  Alan Richer helped
me with some electrical problems over the net last year, but I still
haven't dared return to the truck to hook the ammeter up!  Guess I'll have
to figure out how to break the weld holding the vice grips to the battery
post first! ;-)

Regards, John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1998 Discovery-"Chukka", 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series
IIA 88", 1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO"

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 08:43:04 EST
Subject: Re[2]: 101 production (was US 25 year import rule)

> Well when I talked to customs in Washington they told me that nothing
>which was EX-MOD could be imported no matter what year it was.  They
>were very very clear about it as well.    FYI

Interesting. I'd like to see the documentation of that rule. Bet they can't 
produce it.

Cheers
Dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:11:59 -0800
From: Todd_Wilson@ccmail.columbia.com (Todd Wilson)
Subject: Hub ID

     
     With the talk of Selectro hub's going around I was curious if anyone 
     could help identify the free wheel hubs on my truck. 
     
     They are Cylindrical much like the rear axle hub on a domestic 3/4 ton 
     truck. The face is flat and has two small circles diametrically 
     opposed. Each of these has a screwdriver (coin) slot with an arrow on 
     it. Turning each of these so the arrow points in locks the hub. 
     Obviously, turning the arrows out unlocks the hub. 
     
     I don't see any manufacturers name on the hub.
     
     thoughts or ideas???
     
     tew

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:22:15 -0800
From: Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: delco altenator

Garret Scott wrote:

> Perhaps my design criteria is different from other Rover owners.  I want
> my vehicle to be reliable. I want any changes or enhancements I make to
> be designed properly.  In the arena of electrical systems especially, I
> want my Rover to be at least equal to how it was originally designed, if
> not stronger.  God knows, the Prince of Darkness has an easy enough time
> like it is.   But then on the other hand, some times you can go a long
> way on a shoestring and a prayer.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Garret Scott
> Knoxville, TN (With 24 to 32 inches of snow in the Gatlinburg area)
Garret,
	I couldn't agree more! I find that anal originality (while interesting)
is contrary to the spirit of the Land Rover. One of the most desireable
qualities of the Landie (at least what attracted me and many farmers and
the Brit. & NATO military) is the in-field repairabilty and
modifiability. I have lived in and worked from my '60 109. When the
floor dimmer switch shorted and burned my sneakers (long story) I
rewired with oil/waterproof 10ga. 8 bundle cable routed through the
frame. Long time ago and still works. Did the (Ford) alternator
conversion in '72...still works...etc,etc. Now I've got 4 of 'em and
haul wood, manure, whatever.... great "Workhorses of the World". But,
Everyone should enjoy them by whatever makes you smile. Cheers   Peter
'60 109 SW, 64 '88, '71 88,'73 88, & 1 ugly Champ! 
http://www.mailbag.com/users/nosimport/

------------------------------

Subject: Re: 101 production (was US 25 year import rule)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:52:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "Michael Fredette" <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

 I looked at the ATF web site yesterday, and found a copy of the law
 governing import and export of military items (the title of the law says
 export only, but it covers import also, and ATF covers import only). It
 listed all kinds of restricted items, some obvious like nuclear weapons
 and destroyers, and others not so obvious. One class of items was
 military vehicles, and a quick look suggested a vehicle without gun
 mounts, etc., non-amphibious and unarmoured was not included in the
 restricted list. However, permission can be granted by ATF for many
 classes of restricted items, and an importer's license cost around
 $250/yr. Certain types of firearms and other weapons, goods furnished to
 foreign governments under military aid programs, and some other classes
 have blanket prohibitions. Also military goods from certain countries
 have blanket prohibitions, but the UK was not one of the countries.
 There were also several open letters to importers posted about changes
 to various regulations and how ATF was working to assist importers. One
 even announced that ATF now had an office dedicated to assisting
 importers of military goods.
 
 Regards,
 David Cockey
 
  In reference to the above check out

  http://members.aol.com/milveh/INDEX.html

  This is Lionheart Vehicles, and I purchased my 101 from Greg. No affiliation
just a satisfied customer. The ATF rules are how they bring these vehicles in.

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:00:36 +0000
Subject: Re: 101 production (was US 25 year import rule)

> Also military goods from certain countries
>have blanket prohibitions, but the UK was not one of the countries.

Rather a good thing, considering the US Army drives Land Rovers, and the
USAF flies British aircraft...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:06:45 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: True colors

Alan Richer wrote:

>The point today is the paint and trim.
>Pink.
>Serious PINK. DAMN PINK.
>BARBIE CORVETTE PINK, to be precise.

Damn, Alan, you are one sick puppy! ;-) My 16 y.o. daughter wants a
lightweight, but she wants it in CAMO!  Cheers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:06:43 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: Listing

Martin Faure wrote:

>Do all Series III's list slightly to the right and I've just never noticed
it >during the past 25 years?  3) What might I have inadvertently done
wrong when >installing the replacement springs back in the 1980s that has
caused the >list? 

In a word: Yes.  I've owned mine since new, and it has always listed,
except the last time out, I swapped the springs, and now it lists to the
*right*.  It depends upon where you bought your springs last time.  In the
UK, driver and gas tank are on the same side, so "drivers" side springs
have a greater arch.  In the US, the two cancel each other, so Rovers North
(and presumably other suppliers) sell only the "drivers" kind for both sides.

Remember that when fitting spring shackles, you dont's want the shackle
plate drawn up tight against the bush - it has to be able to move and do
it's job....otherwise, the springs may get 'pre-loaded' and prone to an
early demise.  Cheers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:58:15 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Hub ID

I had these same hubs on my 54 and 55 Willys 4WD station wagons. I have 
no info on them, but they worked well enough for me. Cleaned and 
regreased them and had no trouble. Now the Super Hurricane 6,...THAT gave 
me trouble.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:06:46 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: kill switches

Mark wrote:

> Has any one out there wired an electric fuel pump so it will stop  if you
>are involved in an accident .

I believe all EFI vehicles ('95 and later RR, Disco's and Defenders) have
just such a kill switch in the engine compartment.  It also makes an
effective de-mobilizer for anti-theft.  Just rap it with a screw driver
handle to trigger it and push the button to re-set it.  Cheers

------------------------------

From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:08:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Listing

Also, the main gearbox is off-centre. I only noticed this, when I realised
my floor panels were different
sizes. The gearbox is offset to the left.  Hence, the engine must be
off-centre too, although I've never really noticed it to be honest.

To complicate your maths, I have two fuel tanks, and I'm skinny.     :-)

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

rover@pinn.net on 01/30/98 05:06:43 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Listing

Martin Faure wrote:
>Do all Series III's list slightly to the right and I've just never noticed
it >during the past 25 years?  3) What might I have inadvertently done
wrong when >installing the replacement springs back in the 1980s that has
caused the >list?
In a word: Yes.  I've owned mine since new, and it has always listed,
except the last time out, I swapped the springs, and now it lists to the
*right*.  It depends upon where you bought your springs last time.  In the
UK, driver and gas tank are on the same side, so "drivers" side springs
have a greater arch.  In the US, the two cancel each other, so Rovers North
(and presumably other suppliers) sell only the "drivers" kind for both
sides.
Remember that when fitting spring shackles, you dont's want the shackle
plate drawn up tight against the bush - it has to be able to move and do
it's job....otherwise, the springs may get 'pre-loaded' and prone to an
early demise.  Cheers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:14:42 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Delco alternator

Yesterday some mentioned a Demolition Derby site that has a page on
wiring the Delco Alternator. Well sorry to say the writer has it wrong.
 The Field wire is the one that goes to the Idiot Light and is switched.
 The sensing wire should not go to a light as this would show the wrong
voltage to the regulator resulting in over charging. This likely would
not matter is the usual 10 min run of a Derby but for the longer periods
that we attempt to run Land Rovers could cause a number of problems like
boiled batteries and burned lights and toasted wiring. Not the best
menu. I have been running a 110 amp Delco for many years with great
success but I do not have the little ampmeter in the cluster rather I
use an 80 amp add on gauge as well as a volt meter.
     John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Listing
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:19:07 -0800

Most Land Rovers that I've seen seem to list away from what ever
direction they were turning last.  ;-)

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	A. P. "Sandy" Grice [SMTP:rover@pinn.net]
>Sent:	Friday, January 30, 1998 9:07 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Listing

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 26 lines)]
>it's job....otherwise, the springs may get 'pre-loaded' and prone to an
>early demise.  Cheers

------------------------------

From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:30:07 -0500

FYI
Just rec'd my Jerry cans from Lionheart Vehicles ($12 each) and they are
what he said they are. I got 2 (shipping and all $36).  When I opened one
up it still had about 2qts of petrol in it. I guess this is a testament to
the performance of the can. If UPS can ship it w/ gas inside and not reject
the shipment It will handle almost any OR driving. There even that lovely
Camo green. Just thought I would share.

Chris
91 RR County
G-ville SC
  __ __ __
 |__|__|__|
//__|__|__\___
\__ - ____ - _|}
   (_)    (_)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:59:50 -0600
From: "Searle, Philip A.           AP" <Philip.Searle@abbott.com>
Subject: Mainshaft Nut tool web site

:> The information on the mainshaft nut tool including the picture can
now be :> found at <http://www.landrover.net/parts/transtool/> ::I'm
having trouble reaching this site, anyone else, or is it just my
:'puter? I can get as far as the link for "1/2 inch" and "hex nut", but
:that's it :-(

There is an error on the website, the links for the pictures have an
extra period at the end of the I.P. address.  Manually delete it in your
browser's address box and then you can then see the pictures just fine.

I looked at them yesterday, this is a very useful site, thanks to all
concerned.

Phil Searle
'67 IIA 88"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:30:40 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Subject: Re: Mainshaft Nut tool web site

At 11:59 AM 1/30/98, Searle, Philip A. <Philip.Searle@abbott.com> wrote:
::> The information on the mainshaft nut tool including the picture can
::> now be found at <http://www.landrover.net/parts/transtool/>
:
:There is an error on the website, the links for the pictures have an
:extra period at the end of the I.P. address.  Manually delete it in your
:browser's address box and then you can then see the pictures just fine.
:
:I looked at them yesterday, this is a very useful site, thanks to all
:concerned.

 Hmmm...  the extra dots have been taken out and hopefully the page
 will load properly now.  Thanks for the bug report!  Odd how my
 Netscape 2.02 browser just ignored the error and loaded the page(?).

-Michael 'on the hunt for other dots' Carradine

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:41:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Electrical Question

re: Electrical Question

Jeff Jackson inquired about installing radios in his SIII 88 Luxury Edition.

In addition to the fuzes recommended by aj "sparks R us" r, you might wish to
consider using circuit breakers to protect your Stereo and CB installation.
Small, thermal, pop-out breakers are inexpensive and readily available at
Radio Shack, Parts America, and surplus electronic parts houses.  These
little breakers mount through a round hole and can usually be found in 10,
15, 20.  25 and 30 Amp.  Breakers would save you the trouble of carrying
spare fuzes.  If you are a cheapskate scrounger, these breakers can often be
found in old power strips.

Don't let the magic smoke out of electronic devices or they won't work.

Paul Donohue
Formerly of the First Signal Brigade
1965 Land Rover Dormobile

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:26:03 -0500
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jberg@hearstnewmedia.com>
Subject: re: Electrical Question

Paul Donohue suggests using Circuit Breakers to protect electronic devices
such as stereo's and CBs. My suggestion is...maybe.

I've thought about replacing my aux. fuse blocks in FINSUP with breakers.
However, if I were to do so (assuming you're not using some type of breaker
intended for sensitive electronics--which will probably pop from the heat
in the engine compartment alone!), I'd make sure that I still had an
appropriate fuse for each device located as near to the device as possible.
In this case it is my belief that the breaker would absorb any "incoming"
surges--which along with mud/rain/vibration are probably responsible for
most of the fuses blown in my engine compartment. However, my experience is
that breakers generally have a bit more "slop" than fuses and will blow at
approximately the same point as a "slow blow" fuse--or even a little later.
If a short circuit is produced inside your electronic device, it might do
itself quite a bit of damage before it manages to trip the circuit breaker.
(Hell, in some cases it can catch on fire without blowing the fuse!) So
leave a proper fuse in place near the device to reduce the possibility of
damage from internal causes--and as an additional protection against a
faulty breaker. Odds are you'll never replace this fuse, but it's better
safe than sorry.

Most marine electronics are wired in just this way--a power lead comes from
the mains panel and feeds a single device or a cluster of instruments, but
each device is protected by it's own fuse or built-in, "appropriate type"
breaker.

Do I hear a second?

RoverOn!

jab

==
Jeffrey A. Berg
Macintosh Systems Consultant
Phone     (212) 649-2322
FAX        (212) 957-8524
mailto:jberg@hearstnewmedia.com

To report HNMC Macintosh problems use
mailto:support@hearstnewmedia.com
Remember, the subject line must include
NMC MAC "Brief Description"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:34:01 -0500
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: Apologies to Paul Donohue (was re: Electrical Question)

Upon careful rereading of Paul's message, I note that he initially
suggested using breakers "in addition" to fuses--which is what I propose in
my response to his suggestion to "use fuses". Obviously, he had the right
idea to begin with even though I implied otherwise. Mea culpa, mea culpa,
mea maxima culpa.

Even while multi-tasking I will read all EMAIL carefully before responding...

j "only 98 more times and I can go home" ab

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:59:26 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Ammeter range conversion / wire gauges for 12-volt service / little LR contect

Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com wrote:

> -And for those objecting to pushing 60 amps through a 12 AWG wire - realize
> -that 60 amps at 13.8 volts is only 828 watts - a 20-amp residential service
> -at 115 volts is pushing 2.3KW through essentially the same wire.  If you
> -look at a GM harness you'll realize that the 12 AWG wire is not far off
> -(and might be a bit heavier) than what they designed in as a feed wire for
> -these alternators.

The problem here is not how much power is conducted through the ammeter, but
rather how much power is LOST in it.  Sure, in a house, with a 115v power
system, you can pass 2.3 kilowatts through a 12 gauge wire. But what does that
have to do with the power loss in a 12 volt DC ammeter in a Land Rover?  The
power lost in the ammeter will nave nothing to do with system voltage. In this
case, voltage it is no longer a factor in the equation.  Think about it, how
woul the ammeter ever know what the voltage in the system is?  Is the Ammeter
grounded?

The problem in this discussison is that some of us are are missing something in
basic electrical theory.  Basically, that Power and Current are NOT the same
thing.   You are comparing apples and oranges. Basically the same problem
Nicola Tesla solved years ago. The theory which allows high voltage AC power
distribution systems to work, and which in the early years also quickly killed
off  Edison's 30 volt DC power systems. DC systems which could barely light a
single light bulb because the wire was TOO SMALL.  I I think most people don't
realize that Tesla's work is responsible for our modern power systems ( I guess
most don't really care). Edison did invent the light bulb, but also had major
trouble understanding electrical theory for some years...

For those that don't want to read any further: the bottom line is that the
current handling capacity of a wire has nothing to do with the voltage.  And a
12 gauge wire can only reliably handle 20 amps or so, whether at 12 volts, 24
volts or 120 volts.  And the ammeter in a stock Series IIA Land Rover is only
designed to handle about 30 amps maximum.

Let's do the Math:

Ohm's Law:      Voltage = Current x Resistance

Watt's Law:     Power = Voltage x Current

Solve for Power and we get:     Power = Current squared x Resistance

(You will notice that voltage cancels out and is not a factor in the equation)

The resistance, or conductance of an electrical conductor only affects the
current it can carry, not the voltage.  You will note that in the USA,
according to the National Electrical Code (NEC) it is illegal to install a
utility power system with a 12 gauge wire to carry more than 20 amperes,
regardless of voltage.  The fact that the system could provide 2300 watts of
power is irrelavent.  You will also note that a residential electrical
service-drop of #2 wire can handle 200 amps. But if it is installed
underground, the same 200 amp circuit must use 4-0 wire.  Much, much heavier
gauge wire.  Why?  Because underground lines are not air-cooled like overhead
ones.  Just the same, the ammeter in a Land Rover dashboard is not likely to
receive very good air-cooling.

->Do the math - the wire cross-section and such is well within acceptable
->parameters. it would be better if it was stranded, but that would make a
->right proper mess of the magnetic field, wouldn't it?

I don't know of any parameters except an electrical heater perhaps, that say it
is acceptable to send 60 amps through a 12 gauge wire.

While we are on the subject, (More LR content here) this theory is also the
reason that 24 volt electrical systems are preffered where heavy current is
required in an automobile, such as a military Land Rover.  By doubling the
system voltage, you automatically double the power handling capacity without
having to change the SIZE of the conductors. Neat huh?

I do apologize to those readers that have little or no interest in electrical
theory who have read this far.  But on the other hand I just can't help but
want all of us to have safe and reliable Land Rovers.

Garret Scott
Knoxville, TN

(You will notice that voltage cancels out and is not a factor in the equation)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:03:59 -0500 (EST)
From: PETER KASKAN <PKASKAN@clarku.edu>
Subject: Transmission Problems

1. I was parking my '65IIA the other night - and the shift got stuck in the 
reverse position. I worked it out - but when I moved it across the neutral 
positions there was much more resistance than before. Also the springy-thing 
that keeps it from moving into the reverse position w/o force was broken or
had come loose. My question was do they commonly break, or do they just come
loose? If it's broken, can I repair it or do I have to buy a new one? ( Can I 
buy this part w/ a built in electrical switch for a reverse light? )

1a. More recently, it got stuck in (I think) first, and felt just the same as 
the previous time. I worked it out again. It also seems that there is some 
remnant of the reverse gate, though the spring action is much weaker.

2. When I come down hills in third, letting the engine slow the car,it isn't 
long before it pops into neutral, helped by the bumpy roads. Is this an
adjustment or is there a worn part in there?

Thanks & Happy Rovering - Peter Kaskan
1965 Ex-MoD Series IIA (In ref. to prev. messages - Recently Imported from
Englan to the US - running petrol in a non-converted head w/lead substitute)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:45:57 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Subject: 50th Anniversary

Well, LRNA announced its "official" 50th celebration plans: a one day event
at "the house" - Rover's Lanham HQ.  This is scheduled for June 27th,
(which conflicts with the DownEast event).  Curiously, the same day that I
received the press release from LRNA, I also got one from the Bowie British
Car Day folks.  Typically held the thrid weekend in June - around the 20th
- it has been rescheduled for the 28th.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Anyway, plans for a 'real' celebration are moving along.  If you haven't
already marked your calendar, reserve the weekend of July 31, August 1 & 2
for the largest gathering of Land Rovers ever in North America - by a
factor of three or four.  Bay State, Ottawa Valley and ROAV have joined
forces to create the Association of North American Rover Clubs (ANARC) -
the official sponsor of the event.  News, schedules and other pertinent
information will be posted on the web page as soon as we have them.  The
URL is: www.rover-clubs.org
Cheers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:38:59 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Transmission Problems

The ball on your shift lever is worn and popping out of position in the
selector also the springs on the reverse lockout are weak(likely one is
broken) and there is wear in the gearbox itself that allows it to come
out of third.
    John and Muddy

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:56:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Ammeter range conversion / wire gauges for 12-volt service /

Garrett, believe what you wish - 25 years in the computer industry, most of
it as a silicon and mechanical engineer, tell me otherwise.

Theory is great - but you're not taking into account duty cycle or any of
the real-world factors involved in this application. NEC is lovely for
houses or commercial applications - but their specifications are rated to
(if I remember my courses on this from centuries ago) 10-15% of absolute
working (Notice working, not maximum!) currents for conductors at
continuous duty.

When I referred to working the math, I did not refer to the commercial
electrical code. I was referring to the current-carrying capacity of
conductors not arbitrary atandards. Voltage and total wattage DO matter -
as do frequecy and a whole raft of other things.

This is becoming tiresome - I don't feel like dragging out my texts and
debating at this level. Do as you wish - I stand by my words and the
designs I've put in production.

          ajr/Mr. Churchill left....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:38:02 PST
Subject: 50th Anniversary
From: rover-on@juno.com (Land Rover)

At 04:45 PM 1/30/98 -0500, A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice wrote:
>Bay State, Ottawa Valley and ROAV have joined
>forces to create the Association of North American Rover Clubs (ANARC)

Shouldn't that be "Association of North American Land-Rover Clubs",

or ANAL-RC ?

-*-

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

----------
> From: A. P. "Sandy" Grice <rover@pinn.net>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: 50th Anniversary
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 2:45 PM
> Well, LRNA announced its "official" 50th celebration plans: a one day

event
> at "the house" - Rover's Lanham HQ.  This is scheduled for June 27th,
> (which conflicts with the DownEast event).  Curiously, the same day that
I
> received the press release from LRNA, I also got one from the Bowie
British
> Car Day folks.  Typically held the thrid weekend in June - around the
20th
> - it has been rescheduled for the 28th.  Coincidence?  I think not.
> Anyway, plans for a 'real' celebration are moving along.  If you haven't
> already marked your calendar, reserve the weekend of July 31, August 1 &
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 2:45 PM
2
> for the largest gathering of Land Rovers ever in North America - by a
> factor of three or four.  Bay State, Ottawa Valley and ROAV have joined
> forces to create the Association of North American Rover Clubs (ANARC) -
> the official sponsor of the event.  News, schedules and other pertinent
> information will be posted on the web page as soon as we have them.  The
> URL is: www.rover-clubs.org
> Cheers

------------------------------

From: WJMcD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:12:11 EST
Subject: Commercial (LRO) Content!

I''ve have a 1969 109 for sale. She can be seen at
http://member.aol.com/Beauty.html. This is a great opportunity to get a
beautiful 109 (best year in my humble opinion) for a great price.

Sorry for the commercial content. I've listed her everywhere else with no
serious buyers. You could also call me. I'm in Washington DC 301.277.4321

Bill McDonald
'87 Range Rover- in progress
'69 109"
'66 MGB

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:31:56 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <mc@landrover.net>
Subject: Re: Commercial (LRO) Content!

At 08:12 PM 1/30/98 EST, WJMcD@aol.com wrote:
:I''ve have a 1969 109 for sale. She can be seen at
:http://member.aol.com/Beauty.html. This is a great opportunity to get a
:beautiful 109 (best year in my humble opinion) for a great price.

 I believe the correct URL is:
        http://members.aol.com/WJMcD/Beauty.html
                               ^^^^^^
-Michael
             

------------------------------

From: Kevin Sellitti <Kevinsel@gte.net>
Subject: RE: 101 production (was US 25 year import rule)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:23:11 -0500

Check out this two site. It looks like this guy can bring any military =
hardware into the U.S. He has old Soviet Fighters, Bombers, Tanks and =
Jeeps for sale, Some Swedish Volvos too. Other tanks and armor lots of =
trucks. He could probably get a 101 in for you.

http://www.militaryimport.com/

I just checked their site. They started upgrading on 1/29 so right now =
you can see any of the stuff they have.

Disclaimer: I have no idea who they are I just found them in a search =
engine.
----------
From: 	David Cockey[SMTP:dcockey@tir.com]
Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 8:05 PM
Subject: 	Re: 101 production (was US 25 year import rule)

car4doc wrote:

>  Well when I talked to customs in Washington they told me that nothing
> which was EX-MOD could be imported no matter what year it was.  They
> were very very clear about it as well.

I looked at the ATF web site yesterday, and found a copy of the law
governing import and export of military items (the title of the law says
export only, but it covers import also, and ATF covers import only). It
listed all kinds of restricted items, some obvious like nuclear weapons
and destroyers, and others not so obvious. One class of items was
military vehicles, and a quick look suggested a vehicle without gun
mounts, etc., non-amphibious and unarmoured was not included in the
restricted list. However, permission can be granted by ATF for many
classes of restricted items, and an importer's license cost around
$250/yr. Certain types of firearms and other weapons, goods furnished to
foreign governments under military aid programs, and some other classes
have blanket prohibitions. Also military goods from certain countries
have blanket prohibitions, but the UK was not one of the countries.
There were also several open letters to importers posted about changes
to various regulations and how ATF was working to assist importers. One
even announced that ATF now had an office dedicated to assisting
importers of military goods.

My experience with calling US Customs and asking about regulations is
that the person answering the phone will probably give you whatever
answer comes to mind, but most likely be conservative and say no if in
any doubt. You need to find someone who actually has the regulations in
front of them, and then you may have to ask questions about specific
sections to get them to read the regulations.

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:37:50 EST
Subject: Re: 50th Anniversary

In a message dated 1/30/98 7:01:33 PM, you wrote:

>Sandy,
>Sorry to disapoint you but I am planning that the National Rally will be
>the LARGEST ROVER EVENT OF 1998. Also planned for the weekend of June 25-
>27th.
>Hope that you won't be upset that we are taking all of the rovers from your
>little show :^).....HA HA!

Going by the previous three 50th postings I've read...

Your party dates don't seem to conflict with the ANARCist's dates at all, just
LRNA's one day event on 6/27.

The BIG event as planned by the clubs is 7/31-8/2 as was posted originally by
owner-lro@playground.sun.com in his 50th Anniversary posting.

pat.

------------------------------

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: Bonnet mounted spare, now won't open...
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:23:00 -0300

Hi all - I'm just back from a month off the list while in Zim and SA, so no doubt 
missed some info on this. I have a '95 90 ROW spec Tdi in which the spring is quite 
capable of opening with a spare on the bonnet. LR supplied replacement bonnet release 
cables for this model because they were prone to failure.  I fitted the replacement 
but I have to admit that there really wasn't any reason to do so. What I do recommend 
is pulling the cable out of it's sleeve and greasing it.
Allan.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:37:51 -0800
From: "Andrew I. Dane" <aidane@mindspring.com>
Subject: For Sale:  1993 Land Rover Defender 110

I am selling my 1993 Land Rover Defender 110 (#225/500).  The vehicle
has 61,000 miles and is in excellent condition (garaged).  Asking price
is $44,000.  The vehicle is located in Chicago.  If you (or any of your
club members) is interested in discussing details, please contact me via
reply e-mail (aidane@mindspring.com), telephone (773) 271-0808, or fax
(773) 271-8524.   Regards, Andy Dane

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:37:51 -0600
From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Subject: Wanted dormobile front seats

Hi All,
 Well I need the front seats for a Dormobile If anyone has some to
sell.  I have two rear seats with no middle seat.  I am guessing this
makes two beds one on each side when folded down.   If any one can help
me please email me off the list. Thanks again.

Regards,
 Rob Davis_chicago

------------------------------

From: rovah@agate.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:47:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FYI: Accomodation list for Winter Romp...

Bruce Fowler asked me to pass along this list of area accomodations for those coming to the Winter Romp "from away." :-)

Cheers!  John
Available Lodging for the 1998 Winter Romp

> American Lodge     207-453-7111
> 31 Main Street
> Fairfield, Me    04937       Rooms $37.45 Dub.Oup & up.
> Holiday Inn        207-873-0111
> 375 Main Street
> Waterville, ME       04901  Weekend Rates $49.00 Dub.Oup. & up.
> Yankee Clipper Motel  207-338-2220
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 35 lines)]
> >      Benton, ME   04901-4028
> (      207)453-5074

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323rd Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game <http://www.tstonramp.com/~kahuna/index.html>

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1998 SE Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88", 1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO" 1963 Unimog 404.1-S "The Caterpiller"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:55:51 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: What's going on in the US?

Poor Billy! Everyone's after his tail! So what if he's had a fling or two 
on the side, it's nobody's business. Men always get the short end of the 
stick when it comes to morals anyways, but if you stop to think, for 
every side trip there's always a woman there too! Recent poll taken on 
Wednesday , 2000 women were asked if they would sleep with Bill Clinton, 
and a whopping 79% said "never again!" ;-)

Cheers
Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:39:16 -0800
From: john hess <jfhess@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: dormie photos

Hello,

I recently had the pleasure of meeting Simon DeBues of the Dormobile Owners
Club.  When we met, he brought some photos from england of Land Rover
Dormobiles (and one chevy corvair).  I am having a few reproduced and am
willing to supply copies to those want them.  the photos will be of Land
Rover Dormobiles interior/exterior.  They are very old publicity shots from
either Martin Walter or Land Rover (some of the photos are in a Martin
Walter sales brochure I have).  One shot is of a chevy corvair dormobile.
I am spending $2.50 to have each negative made and $0.45 for each photo.  I
chose 8 to be redone.  Exterior pose, a couple interior shots (one with
Dormobile propane refrig and a couple of Barbara Toy picking up her Dormie
from Martin Walter.  (I assume most folks aren't interested in Ms. Toy so
I'll leave those shots out.)  Photos should be reprinted same size which is
about 8x10.

If you want a set, how about mailing me $5?
Let me know if you want a set and I'll send you my address and confirm.

cheers,

John F Hess   jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
Land Rover Dormobile web pages:
http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~jfhess/homepage.html
1968 Land Rover Dormobile "Elvis"
1960 swb pu "Stubby" (actually Katherine's),
1960 swb roadster "Slug" (Alex's) Slug needs everything, donations accepted

------------------------------

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