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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:31:49 EST
Subject: Re:  paint removal

In a message dated 1/26/98 12:31:55 AM, you wrote:

>less abrasive than sand or plastic media.  I am very interested as i am =
>doing a restoration on a series 3 frame up

That's what NorthropGrumman uses to re-do the B2 Stealth Bomber. I'm sure if
you parked your stealthy rover in the same hangar they'd just blast it with
the leftovers.

Some places that specialize in plastic media blasting have several different
media on hand, you ought to check around and see who uses what.

There are a lot of success stories with conventional paint stripper, though,
and I wouldn't discount them.

pat
93  110

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Subject: FW: New Old Stock
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:03:00 -0500

This was posted to me this morning. May be useful to some listers. Usual
disclaimers
 ----------
From: Andreas.Lauber@chinf.mail.abb.com
Subject: New Old Stock
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 7:48AM

Dear Land Rover Friends

The Situation: The Swiss Army used Land Rover of Series 1,2,3 some years
ago. A guy working
at Thun at the army saw the right moment for buying the old stock of new
parts at very low prices.
He's really a Serie One enthusiast!  So he is interested to sell all
other parts including lots of
Lucas parts. We took a visit at his home last Saturday buying parts for
colleague Peters 88 Slla (70)
I saw wood frames full of new drums, 5 new heads, axels, all drive
shafts, new Girling parts etc etc.
My colleague bought a brand new gearbox (stored dry and checked
frequently by the Army) at low
500 pounds. (material for redoing one would by the same). I saw new
Dynos for aprox 40Pounds
and I bought a new complete exhaust system for my 109Slla(70) at low 70
Pounds. Regular old
list prices (10years) ago were much more expensive. I hope to buy in
april new driveshafts and
propshafts. There are still brand new tachos left for 109 Serie models
with the higher tires. All
parts are original LR-parts and New.  Same for compl. gasket sets,
collectors,cams (6zyl) or
all brake parts, lines... Intake valve 2 Pound, exhaust valve 4 Pound,
clutch 30 Pound
If you need something give a fax or contact him direct by phone after 7
p.m.
Mr. Gaston RUBIN at CH-THUN  (20 miles from capitol Bern)
phone and fax is 0041 +33 336 8849

p.s I think there will be no Serie1 parts left because of his own
interests but lots of Serie 2, 2a perhaps S3

With all the best wishes, Andrew Lauber, Allmendstreet 39A, ch-5400
Baden   / phone 0041 56 2055041
Sorry for some English mistakes in this letter  (I've absolutely no
financial interest)

------------------------------

From: "ASFCO" <ASFCO@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Roof Rack F/S in NY
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 08:08:19 PST

I have a full length galvanized roof rack off a swb series for sale. It =
is  in good shape
Pick up near Albany, NY  would be willing to meet you half way within a =
reasonable distance
$350 firm
Rgds
Steve

------------------------------

From: MurphyK1@psgvl.ps.ge.com
Subject: SIIA For Sale
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:24:01 -0500

Paul Hanson in WI is selling his SIIA.  I told him I would help him sell it
by advertising it on my website.  I have posted a couple of pictures and a
detailed description of his rover on my Rover page.  If you are interested,
feel free to check it out.  Also, if you are selling a rover and don't have
the internet capability to "show it off", email me off line:
kevin.murphy@ps.ge.com and I'll see if I can help.

http://members.carol.net/murphyk/index/rover.html   (Click on the "For Sale"
link once there)

Later,

Kevin

g____________________________
        Kevin A. Murphy
       GE GAS TURBINE FINANCE
       (864) 675-2727 / 8*288-2727 (phone)
       (864)-675-2274 / 8*288-2274 (fax)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:52:34 -0600
From: nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu
Subject: WANTED: SII-A BULKHEAD  straight, rebuildable

I'm looking for an SII-A Bulkhead to put into "as new" condition then swap
for the one I have.

The Upper Section must be free of bondo and internal rusting, but the 
Lower Section can have the "usual" rust problems, just so long as it is
factory straight.

If you have one, or know of the location of one, please contact me via
either of the two numbers below.

Thank you,

Meil Lamont
537 L.S.U. Ave.
Baton Rouge, LA  70808

Fax: (504) 766-6515
E-Mail: nlamon1@tiger.lsu.edu
-- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 9:16:29 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Towball Award

As I understand, the towball award is for OVLR members, so Steve...if you 
haven't...send in your twenty five bones ( No noodging me Spen ) so that 
you'll be in official running. There is already a candidate that I have 
firsthand knowledge of that may have you beat ( there are pictures as 
well as corroborating witnesses ), who shall remain anonymous until Dr. 
Norcross has properly chronicled the affair in his own inimitable style. 
Let's say it involves a certain 109 pickup with a diesel conversion and 
very few nuts and bolts in the right places.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:42:28 -0600
From: nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu
Subject: WANTED: SII-A BULKHEAD

Do you have an SII-A Bulkhead TO SELL?
Do you know someone who does?

If yes to either of the above, please contact me via one of the numbers
below.

I'm looking for one to put into "as new" condition then swap for the one I
have.

Thank you,

Neil Lamont
Baton Rouge, LA

Fax: (504) 766-6515
E-Mail: nlamon1@tiger.lsu.edu
-- 

------------------------------

From: Bokhart@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:14:36 EST
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

unsubscribe lro-digest

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:00:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Karl Kurz <kkurz@acad.umm.maine.edu>
Subject: Koenig cable size?

Does anyone have any recommendations on the diameter and length of a new
cable to refit to my Koenig PTO winch. The drum is 8" X 8" with a 3.5"
diameter core. My feeling is a 5/16" cable would be more than adequate,
and be pliable.  I'm not sure how much cable I should buy, or if there is
a particular rating I should find for winching operations.....anyone ever
use stainless cable ?

Any thoughts and experiences appreciated... TIA

Karl K. Kurz, N1JZY
POB 352, Machiasport
Maine, 04654
207-255-4036

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics
French, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:25:21 -0600
From: "Herman L. Stude" <hermans@krts.com>
Subject: Re: Koenig cable size?

Karl Kurz wrote:
> Does anyone have any recommendations on the diameter and length of a new
> cable to refit to my Koenig PTO winch. 

 My feeling is a 5/16" cable would be more than adequate,

The original spec calls for 150" of 5/16" 6x19 improved plow hemp center
the 6X19 part tells you about the ways and quantity of the wraps and
strands.  I just went through this with my Koenig, and bought 150" of
5/16 6x19 GALVANIZED.  I chose galvanised because the PO's cable had
rusted.  Galvanised capacity was slightly lower than non, but still
above the 8,000lbs. rating.

A few OVLR's use 1/2"  I'm told.  Ask Dixon, he's very helpful.

> a particular rating I should find for winching operations.....anyone ever
> use stainless cable ?

no experience here
> Any thoughts and experiences appreciated... TIA
> use stainless cable ?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:25:21 -0600
From: "Herman L. Stude" <hermans@krts.com>
Subject: Re: Koenig cable size?

Karl Kurz wrote:
> Does anyone have any recommendations on the diameter and length of a new
> cable to refit to my Koenig PTO winch. 

 My feeling is a 5/16" cable would be more than adequate,

The original spec calls for 150" of 5/16" 6x19 improved plow hemp center
the 6X19 part tells you about the ways and quantity of the wraps and
strands.  I just went through this with my Koenig, and bought 150" of
5/16 6x19 GALVANIZED.  I chose galvanised because the PO's cable had
rusted.  Galvanised capacity was slightly lower than non, but still
above the 8,000lbs. rating.

A few OVLR's use 1/2"  I'm told.  Ask Dixon, he's very helpful.

> a particular rating I should find for winching operations.....anyone ever
> use stainless cable ?

no experience here
> Any thoughts and experiences appreciated... TIA
> use stainless cable ?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:52:42 -0800
From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers

From: CIrvin1258 <CIrvin1258@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:59:41 EST
Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers, U.S. Customers ETC; SPOOF

>With regard to vehicles - just make sure that it complies with all federal
regs before you even try to import one.

According to the copy of the 1997 pamphlet on importing vehicles to the US
put out by US Customs, you are allowed to import a non-US-spec vehicle only
if it is at least 25 years old.  That means the newest Land Rover you can
import without any restrictions is a 1973 Series III or Range Rover.  The
"once in a lifetime, one per person" waiver that used to be available to
import a non-US-spec vehicle less than 25 years old has been eliminated.
That is how Bill Gates got his snazzy Porsche in a few years ago; he
supposedly couldn't do it today.

Customs automatically impounds every imported vehicle as it arrives on the
dock.  The owner then has four choices.  1) Prove the vehicle meets all
current US emissions and safety regulations, which is what the new-car
importers do.  2) Bring the vehicle up to the US emissions and safety
regulations that were in force at the time of manufacture.  3) Ship the
vehicle back to where it came from.  4) Destroy the vehicle on the spot.
That's it, no other choices.  So a Defender 110 made in the UK in 1994 must
not only meet all US emission specs, it must meet the safety specs
including rollover requirements, which is why the 500 Defender 110s
imported in 1993 have that silly external roll cage.

These regulations make it virtually impossible to import any assembled Land
Rover made after 1973.  During the late 1970s and early 1980s, there was at
least one company on the east coast that was importing Range Rovers and
modifying them to meet US specs.  This added a fair amount to the purchase
price as well as voiding the manufacturer's warranty, but it accounts for
the handful of pre-1987 Range Rovers that are in the US today.  The Morgan
importer in San Francisco does the same thing, converting Plus-4s and
Plus-8s to propane to meet the US specs.  Only recently has he been able to
meet US-specs with the Plus-8 (Rover V-8) on gasoline.  The Plus-4s are
still converted to propane.  Canadian import regulations today are, I
believe, the same as the US regs, but I don't think they were quite as
stringent awhile back.  A few Land Rover 90s and 110s were brought into
Canada during the 1980s and may have since found their way across the
border.

You can, of course, buy a non-US-spec Land Rover overseas, disassemble it,
ship in the parts, and reassemble the vehicle later.  However, the
shippments have to be widely separated as Customs is on the lookout for
unassembled vehicles as well (told to me by a Customs agent).  Plus once
you get the vehicle back together, you may have difficulty getting it
registered in your state, as the blue books and other documents the states
use don't show the existance of any Land Rovers between the years 1974 and
1987.  However, this will vary from state to state; some, like Washington,
are very strict when it comes to vehicle registration while other states
are quite lax.

I have been trying for several years to import a new Defender 130 Crew Cab
High Capacity pickup to replace my Ford F-250 Supercab.  The elimination of
the one-time waiver has pretty much put an end to my efforts, as I don't
have the time to mess around with importing the parts and reassembling the
vehicle, and my state (Washington) wouldn't allow me to register it anyway.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Hello, is there anybody out there?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:30:51 -0800

Just a test.

Our internet provider had a core dump Friday night.

Looks like all my mail has been bouncing back to the sender so I think
the major has killed my subscription. ;-(
If this message doesn't come back to me, I'll re-subscribe.

Paul Quin
Victoria, BC  Canada

------------------------------

From: Rob Horstman <resrch!robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Subject: RE: Minshaft nut tool picture
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:21:37 -0800

Well, first off, thanks to all who replied to my question regarding the
proper Wheel cylinders on th front / rear of my Landrover.

Next question is about Shocks. Any suggestions as to what type to put on
? I have 2  choices I guess, stock or go with an Aftermarket alternative
such as Rancho, etc...

Anybody tried anything other than original ? Or is it best ot remain
with the stock type shocks 

Thanks in Advance...

Rob.

1968 SIIA 88"
________________________________________________________________

Rob Horstman, Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
Moli Energy (1990) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                  Direct Line - (604) 466-6681 
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada                Main #       - (604) 466-6654
V2X  9E7
                              Visit us on the WEB  @
www.molienergy.bc.ca
________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

From: Rob Horstman <resrch!robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Subject: Yikes, Wrong header in previous post - RE: Shocks
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:34:01 -0800

Sorry about that ! I forgot to change the header from the last Email I
read...

Rob.
________________________________________________________________

Rob Horstman, Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
Moli Energy (1990) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                  Direct Line - (604) 466-6681 
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada                Main #       - (604) 466-6654
V2X  9E7
                              Visit us on the WEB  @
www.molienergy.bc.ca
________________________________________________________________

> ----------
> From: 	Rob Horstman[SMTP:robh@resrch.molienergy.bc.ca]
> Reply To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Sent: 	 January 26, 1998 11:21 AM
> To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: 	RE: Minshaft nut tool picture

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 43 lines)]
> www.molienergy.bc.ca
> ________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:41:51 +0000
From: Cas Stimson <cstimson@gte.net>
Subject: D 90 & P255-85R-16 MT Tires

RE: Will a stock D-90 will accept 255-85R-16 MT?

I have a 1997 Land Rover D 90. I put on 285-75R-16 MTs which I believe
are very similar in size to 255-85R-16s.  To do this I had to install
Safari Gard's smallest lift package which adds about 3" in lift; I also
had to fit the new tires with new rims (also from Safari Gard) that
pushed the tires out about 2".  The D 90 looks really great and more
importantly is much more stable on hill climbs and high speed dirt
trails.  I also entered an off-road event which involved high speeds on
rough roads and the suspension worked better than stock.  I am
considering installing a similar suspension on my D 110.  

I do not know which D 90 you own but I purchased this D 90 for my wife
because it has an automatic transmission.  If you own the stick version
you will have no problems with the larger tires.  If you own the
automatic, I highly recommend changing the diff gears from 3.5 gearing
to 4.7 gearing.  The automatic transmission is similar to the
Discovery's, possibly even the same, and in its stock condition very
poor for off-roading even with its stock tires.  After changing the
diffs in the automatic version, you will experience better compression
breaking on hills and more gentle negotiating of rocky terrains. 
Furthermore, you will really like its peppy behavior in city driving (it
will blow most vehicles away in zero to 55 driving - my wife's typical
shopping arena).  The only negative is if you drive faster than 70 mph
on the highway; at faster speeds you will be running slightly more than
3,000 rpm.  Good Luck.

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Traceability
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:48:05 -0800

I'm now wanting to write Land Rover in Britain to get the birth
certificate of my beast.

I seem to have deleted the information for this service from my old
e-mails.

Are they still offering this service?
How much does it cost?
Could someone provide the name/address at Solihull again?

Tx.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:02:52 EST
Subject: Re: Traceability
	[ Original post was HTML ]

<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>In a message dated 1/26/98 2:49:04 PM Eastern
Standard Time, Paul_Quin@pml.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><< Are they still offering this service?<BR>
 How much does it cost?<BR>
 Could someone provide the name/address at Solihull again? >><BR>
<BR>
1. Probably<BR>
2. Free (cost of a stamp and stationery)<BR>
3. John Riley, Project engineer--Traceablility<BR>
    Rover Group Ltd<BR>
    Lode Lane<BR>
    Solihull<BR>
    West Midlands England B92 8 NW</HTML>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:52:05 -0500
From: Eric Zipkin <ericz@cloud9.net>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

I seem to remember some device in some catalog for measuring tongue
weight...some caravan catalog or something...anyone know what I'm talking
about?

Eric

At 08:27 PM 1/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-23 20:13:13 EST, you write:
><< Trailer stability is strongly dependent on proper tongue weight.
> Generally 10% of trailer weight is recommended, though I've had good
> luck with 5% to 7%. >>

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
>behind. Anyone have a good way to measure tongue weight?
>Nate

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:52:59 -0500
From: Eric Zipkin <ericz@cloud9.net>
Subject: Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION

>Zippy, relax that's why god gave you TWO eyes.

Yeah, the hell with that pesky depth perception...I already drive like I
have none ;)

Rgds,

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:00:10 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: mainshaft nut wrench

There is available a suitable wrench known as a spanner wrench in N
America.  From Mac Tools #swp1 or from Snap On # aps 351.
  I don't have a current price.
     John and Muddy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:05:16 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers

>>With regard to vehicles - just make sure that it complies with all federal
>regs before you even try to import one.
>According to the copy of the 1997 pamphlet on importing vehicles to the US
>put out by US Customs, you are allowed to import a non-US-spec vehicle only
>if it is at least 25 years old.

As per all our importing, my digging through documents, our freight
forwarder etc. What Mr. Faure has said is 100%. Those are the facts. For
example, we shipped in a chassis for a 109, then later and engine for a RR,
and later still the body from a SIII. Well... we got a call US Customs
about those shippments. They thought we were building a vehicle as the
parts added up to one vehicle. They may look at a company more closely, but
the fact is they are watching.
Having said that, a guy I know drove his 101 across the Canadian border,
and just didn't fill out any paperwork, no paper trail, no foul.
Spoke with an ex-ME State Police Officer today,( as we can register and
title kit cars here). The regulations are tighter than you think for that.
Sounded like an Ibex would pass, as would a VW dune buggy, or a Cobra kit,
but the officer said that something like a Defender or a 101 that is
currently, or was, mass produced does not have anything to do with the kit
car registration process that they offer.

Just passing on the info.
Recently sold a 1967 NADA. 109 to a guy in Texas. Even with all the correct
paperwork he had a bitch of a time getting it titled (Maine doesn't have
titles for cars pre-1984), and that car was imported by Land Rover in 1966!

Good old Gov. regulations!! Too bad we can't get away with what Bill
Clinton gets away with! We'd all have 101's!!

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:06:47 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Warn Winch Cable-Don't dispair, Koenig is VERY good. 

Ray,

Oh, jeez,  I didn't mean to 'diss the Keonig. Although my experience has
proven to me that my Ramsey is a superior winch to my Koenig for my use,
The comparison is not excactly apples to apples.

The RAMSEY DC-200 is an industrial winch, It does use the same basic
housings and Gearbox as thier top of the line worm-gear 12,000lb Vehicle
winch, but the motor, and other parts are heavier built.  This is the
winch, whether in elctric or hydraulic form, that is found on about 50%
of the tow-trucks (wrecker trucks) in this country (USA). As such, they
are designed for very heavy use.   Mine came off of a wrecked
wrecker-truck (Ironic hugh?).

Fortunatly, being basically an al alloy housing casting, they are not
too heavy. Even with an 11" drum full of 3/8" cable, it is not over 175
lbs weight. Or so my wife's bathroom scale said. (She is still mad at me
for lubricating her scale with nice smelling 140 wt. gear oil ;-)    

Anyway the Koenig is a very good winch. It was almost unstoppable as
long as you payed attention to what you are doing and excercise some
care and sensibility in it's use.  The problems I had were: 

1: Abuser error, accidentally engaging pto and not realizing it,
resulting in strange sounds from front of vehicle while traveling down
highway, and a broken shear pin.

2: Way too easy to break the cable or shear pin. Happened over and over.

3: Couldn't install a overdrive. So I finally took the winch off.  Then
put on brand new Fairy overdrive.  Then took it off. WORTHLESS piece of
junk, I should have know better than to buy something called a Fairy.  I
later installed a TORO overdrive.  TORO is excellent, best mod I ever
made, well..next to the ARB's.  Still going strong after 130,000 miles
ON THE OVERDRIVE!  I use it hard, and there is very, very little
noticable gear whine (yes, I do have a working muffler etc.).  And this
is all a very good thing, because I can't get parts for the TORO if I
ever needed to.

4: Last but not least, for Four-Wheeling and Vehicle recovery, the
electric winch will run when the vehicle's motor won't.  This is VERY
important too me.  The built in slowness is also an important safety
factor.  The slowness gives the user a lot of FEEDBACK from the winch
and cable as to how hard it is loaded.  It's so damn slow you have much
longer to make important decisions about the recovery, and SAFETY.  In
deep mud, it even gives more time for the mud to Sluuurp around
underneath and break those air locks that seem to happen. I have seen
too many PTO winches and cables tightened up and broken in a matter of
seconds. 

On the other hand, the PTO is would be far better on a logging or
construction site, or maybe even on an older LR without an upgraded
generator/battery. There, the eclectrics would never make it.  But
that's not the primary use for mine.

Ok, I'll go now.  You guys have got to understand, I just got out of the
hospital from surgery.  Not only am I on Drugs (Legally), but I am bored
to death and cannot talk. So you list readers are just going to have to
suffer.  

Now, if my wife would just go to work and leave me alone, I'll get back
out in the garage and make good use of these free "vacation" days from
work.  If anyone is interested, I'll tell you about my three new
16-Guage stainless steel, expanded capacity, 16 gallon military
replacement fuel tanks for my Litewieght, with the special bevel in the
side, original filler-tube/crap filter and sender etc.  If my loving
wife will leave tommorow, they will be done in a of couple days. 

Garret Scott
Knoxville, TN  
Now with our very own Official LR dealer, Although after waiting for
almost 20 years I missed the grand opening, even though I rescheduled my
Surgery and suffered an extra 5 days just so I wouldn't miss the Grand
Opening.  Oh Well E-or, I guess no one ever said Land Rover life would
be fair.

>Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:37:21 -0600 (CST)
>From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
>Subject: Re: Warn Winch Cable 
>On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Garret Scott wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Warn Winch Cable 
>> my old Koenig PTO winch (Also a very good winch, but not as tough as >the
>> Ramsey DC-200). 

>let me state those are fighting words.   i am on a 9.6kb connection
>so typing is tuff.,, but my koenig is part of the reason i
>am a dedicated series lro...

>seems to me that at least one more winc-off is in-oorder...

>Sincerely,

>Ray Harder

------------------------------

From: "David Hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Subject: Reply: D90 tyre sizes
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:27:00 -0600

I saw a message on THIS list yesterday asking about the BFG 255/85/R16 MT.
Yes, based on my experience it fits the D90 perfectly.  Some people run a
285/75.  It's the same height but two inches wider and extremely heavy.  If
the owners of these monsters are to believed they do not rub at all.

David Hope
64 llA
95 D90SW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:44:28 +0000
From: jon collins <jonathan.collins@virgin.net>
Subject: A tail of woe and the mighty fairey drum winch.

A few weeks back, me and the old man replaced the swivel pin bearing on
his IIA. In the process we removed and checked out the free wealing
hubs, we replaced them in what seemed the obvious way and all has be
lovely since then.
	On Saturday we rattled of down the shoot to see if we could catch
Sunday lunch. The track leading down to where we wanted to park is
hevily rutted by the farmers tractor, and we often found ourselves going
along sideways. Safe in the knowledge that we were in the best 4*4 by
far, we crossed a particularly big rut to turn around and stopped dead.
Considering we were in low 2nd with the hubs locked this should not have
been a problem. Dad applied a bit more throttle, which was acompanied by
a spinny sound and no movement. Looking underneath I could see that the
front prop shaft was turning but the wheels were doing bugger all.
In the end we had to winch the landy out with the fairey drum wich (PTO
driven) and try to reverse the 500 yards back to the drive.
Unfortunately the rear wheels were toatally cloged with clay, and yours
truly had to push the poxy thing most of the way. I dont know if anybody
else has tried pushing a landy on thier own, but beleive me they are
very heavy.
	Took one of the hubs off today and found that we hadnt tightened it up
proparly. Luckilly we avoided the humiliation of getting somebody to tow
us out. We made up for it the following day when we got a rather tasty
front axle, with FWH and a set of air horns for £75 from the local
scrappy. The axles going on the project S3, and the horns are in the 2A.
Also come across a freelander and a Stage1 V8 on Sat.

Best regards JON
S2A SWB 1962 (cost £400)+winch (£150)
S3 SWB station wagon (cost £300)

------------------------------

From: GNBull3 <GNBull3@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:11:28 EST
Subject: Towing Nightmares

	I once had a nightmare situation getting flat bedded. I was in Marbella,
Spain and my 101 died in a shopping center parking lot. The ignition was fried
and the 101 wasn't going anywhere. I started working on it but the mall
security told me I couldn't work on the truck and if it was there after
closing they would have the cops impound it and charge me with trespassing.
Locals there don't like Brits or anyone driving British reg'ed vehicles. So I
went to a garage down the road and asked them if they could tow it. They said
no but that they knew a guy who had a flatbed that would do it for cheap, plus
one of their drivers speaks English. At that point I though I was graced with
a stroke of good luck. 

	Twenty minutes later a guy pulls up in a little Japanese FC flatbed truck
designed to haul little European econoboxes. When he pulled up next to the
101, his truck was actually smaller in every respect than the 101 except that
the flatbed stuck out a little farther. I thought, oh man this isn't going to
work. Than the guy proceeded to park the flatbed in front of my 101 and began
lowering the bed. I couldn't believe it, he was actually going to try to load
the 101. Normally, there is no way I would have even let him try but under the
circumstance I had no better option. I drove the 101 up onto the ramp and as
the guy was leveling up the flatbed, the front wheels of his truck left the
ground. When we got the 101 on the flatbed it looked like his truck should be
on mine and not visa versa. The 101 was obviously way too big. I told him that
maybe this wasn't such a good idea and he just said; "don't worry, I used to
do stuff like this all the time when I lived in Lebanon. It'll be no problem"
Turns out he's an  exchange student moonlighting as a car mechanic/tow driver
to make some money. Nice enough guy but I didn't trust him farther than I
could throw him.

	Well, the 101 just fit on the bed with literally a couple of inches to spare
from the rear wheel and the end of the flatbed. I didn't trust his tie downs
and even with the park brake engaged, the 101 can roll back and forth more
than a couple of inches. As a result, I decided to stay in the 101 and keep my
foot on the brake to keep it from rolling around. As soon as we started
moving, I knew I had made a big mistake. I saw clear over the top of his truck
which gives one the impression you are driving. It is very eerie and nerve
racking to be sitting alone in the drivers seat of a vehicle while it is
driving through traffic and negotiating the roads and yet you have absolutely
no control over it. On top of that, this guy was a certified Mary O Andretti
wannabe. We were dodging all over the place in traffic and he had the nerve to
pass with on coming traffic even though our power to weight ratio would make a
diesel 109 seem like a Ferrari. Of course I wanted to get back into the other
lane but no matter how hard I turned the wheel or hit the brakes, we just kept
passing. It was like being next to somebody with a serious deathwish who is
playing highway chicken and you are just a helpless passenger. On top of that,
was the fact that my head was about 10 to 12 feet off the ground and every
pitch and roll was exaggerated to the point where I was convinced we were
going to roll every time he cut a turn. Then there were the power lines,
branches and low bridges. Every time we approached them, I would duck my head
as low as possible thinking this time I'm going to get decapitated for sure.
Although there was probably a few feet to spare, it seemed I just barely
grazed each one.

	Well you might say my nerves were at their limit when we came up to a steep
hill. He had the thing floored but was loosing power so he shifted down. The
shift was a bit abrupt and suddenly I got that uneasy weightlessness feeling
in my gut and I felt as if I was falling backward and then BAM! Before I
figured out what had happened, I was looking straight up at the sky. The
entire front end of his truck, wheels and all, had left the ground and the
rear overhang of the bed of his truck had hit the pavement! I planted my foot
down hard on the brakes and was holding onto the steering wheel for dear life.
The driver hit the brakes and my stomach got that feeling again before the
front wheels touched back on the ground. I was about to let my foot off the
brakes and get out when he started easing the truck forward. At first it
seemed like we might make it but then there was that feeling again, the wheels
went up, and the bed hit pavement again. However this time, instead of
stopping, he just kept going. I could hear the rear of the bed dragging on the
pavement and everything was vibrating uncontrollably. I don't think I have
ever exerted so much force on a brake pedal in my life and it wouldn't have
surprised me if I had pushed it clear through the firewall. Anyway we
proceeded to crawl up the hill with the front wheels entirely off the ground
and to my surprise we actually made it. Once we got to the top he hit the
brakes hard and the front came back down again. We drove for a few more
minutes down some twisty roads but by this time I was so flabbergasted that
the low power lines and exaggerated swaying didn't even phase me. We finally
got to the garage and when I stepped out of the 101, I fell flat on my face
because my leg was numb from pushing so hard on the brake pedal all that time.
I looked at my friend, who had been driving up front in the cab, and he was as
white as a sheet. I looked at the driver and he just smiled and said; "I told
you, no problem." 

Regards,
George Bull

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:51:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re:No Help for Chinese LR Owner

Y'know, I quit being irked by bad english grammer (especially on the 'net)
after mutilating French, trying to talk about old computers to people in
France.  Gotta give 'em credit for trying; English ain't an easy language.

I mentioned this whole subject to my Girlfriend over the weekend.  She
teaches first grade.  Her response was that it's not nice to be mean to
people, and anyone who has to make fun of someone else when they're really
trying is pretty insecure themselves.  This is the sort of thing she has to
teach her 6-year-olds not to do.

Now, I've been known to make some pretty tasteless remarks, but *only* in
front of a few people.  People who know me well enough to know it's a joke
-- people who know my best friend from High School is black, as was my old
girlfriend, etc.  Heck, I've been known to tell Polish jokes and German
jokes, even though my father's hometown used to be part of Germany and is
now located in Poland.  

This list, however close we may be, is not that select group of friends who
know we mean no harm.  It is a public forum, populated by people around the
world, including Europe, Africa, The Americas, Asia, and Australia.
Probably including China, definitely including Chinese living elsewhere.  

So whether or not any offense was intended, there is a very real chance
that jokes made at the expense of others will be read by someone who is the
butt of those jokes.  

So the question is, is the pleasure that writing something offensive may
give you worth the pain it may cause someone else?  A question we each have
to answer for ourselves, everytime we write something.

> to appreciate a HARMLESS, repeat HARMLESS, joke poking fun at the lousy

Actually, it wasn't, as it caused pain to at least two people.  Not harmless.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:51:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: RE: Landrover technical descriptions

>Now for the real reason for the post:  How did the radiator shell/grill
>come to be known as the breakfast.  Was it the time honored tradition of
>cooking your morning 'bangers' on the rover grill over an open fire?????
 
Seems to me this oughta be added to the FAQ (and maybe the Not-So-FAQ).
No, I don't recall the answer; only that it's been asked before.  8^)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:52:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

>I hear what you say,Garret,but I dont entirely agree.Over here(UK) the
>88" is the tool of preference for towing.I've only ever seen one 109"
>dragging a horsebox.And it didnt look too happy.I've seen a good many

A couple of comments from the brother of a horsenut...  (Having discussed
this multiple times with her...)  As I understand it (and Nate, please jump
in, since I know you & Weet have discussed this) horseboxes in the UK are
lighter than US models and the distances involved are much shorter.  My
sister regularly drives 120 miles (round trip) to teach a couple of riding
lessons.  Isnt' Hadrian's wall only like 80 miles long?  

Towing lightweight horseboxes 30 miles in the UK is not the same as towing
a heavy US box several hundred miles.  And over here, the speed limits are
usually 65 with traffic moving at as much as 80mph, and although you
wouldn't pull a horse anywhere near that fast, you do have to deal with
other vehicles going that fast.

>wrong.Nice steady speed,no sudden alterations in course or speed,a properly
 
P.S., I'd heard that a lot of people want to eliminate the second space
after a period, but getting rid of all spaces after punctiation seems a bit
harsh.  Is this a UK thing?  8^)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:52:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION

At 04:20 PM 1/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES!!!!!!

YES!

>I sit here at my computer, attempting to focus with one good eye, and one
>with a half a dozen sutres in it.  Last friday, I was cleaning up the shop
>(see what I get for that) and I disconnected a shop air hose.  The end of
>the hose shot back at me and struck me in the left eye.  I came very close
>to losing sight in that eye forever.  

Having ended up in almost exactly the same situation when I was in high
school, I offer my sincerest sympathies!  

Just to offer hope, while my vision in my left eye will never be 20/20,
it's good enough to do everything I want to do.  

And when the doctor says "look out of your right eye while I take these
stitches out", *DON'T* look out your left eye... 6^)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:01:28 -0500
From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Subject: gearbox

Nate, it is not possible to tell the condition of a gearbox that is not in a
drivable vehicle without dismantling. The major problem is associated with
the brass bush that is on the mainshaft for 2nd / 3 rd gear at the very
least, In addition ser 3 boxes are usually well worn on the second gear
drive teeth which first gear locks onto. These have been thinned from the
ser 2 size to fit in the synchro rings. Visual inspection of the stripped
gearbox by someone who knows what they are looking at is highly recommended,
it is a lot of work to fit a box to test it.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

From: Mike MacDonald <mmacdonald@laserdirect.com>
Subject: Series I - 2.0L Engine Woes
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:01:17 -0800

Any of you Series I fans out there.....help!

I've got a '57 SI 88" with a 2Liter engine that I thought (hoped) I was
nearing the end of the "working on it still" stage and moving into the
"playing with it now" stage.  Unfortunately, I have a bad feeling I'm
not.

Following my first real foray out onto the roads, about 50 miles or so
at speeds up to @45 mph I noticed a decrease in my oil pressure - from
@50 down to about 20.  When I got home I checked the oil level and found
a dipstick covered in a milky brown, somewhat foamy mixture that prior
experience (with another vehicle, not a Rover) had told me that I had a
water/oil mixture taking place (NOT a good thing).  This (previously)
was the result of a blown head gasket.  FYI, that milky brown crap was
also in the filler neck and in the breather cap on top of the valve
cover.  The water level in the radiator was down significantly.

Well, last weekend (2 weeks after I first noticed things) I pulled the
valve cover off - everything looks normal (nice brown smooth looking
oil), I pulled the oil pan off - everything looks normal (nice brown
smooth oil),  I pulled the exhaust valve cover off - everything
looks....okay, you get the point.  I (last resort) pulled the head off -
everything looks normal.  I can't find anything that looks broken nor
did the head gasket look "blown", and I can't figure out why the oil in
the system now looks just fine.  I can't believe that letting it sit for
2 weeks was enough for the oil to smooth out and go back to normal, and
I found no water in the oil pan.

I haven't dared (try to) fire it up since I put things back together,
but does anyone out there have any pearly words of wisdom for me?  

Thanks for the help,

Mike MacDonald 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:13:11 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience (not!)

At 06:52 PM 1/26/98 -0600, Uncle Roger wrote:
:>wrong.Nice steady speed,no sudden alterations in course or speed,a properly
:P.S., I'd heard that a lot of people want to eliminate the second space
:after a period, but getting rid of all spaces after punctiation seems a bit
:harsh.  Is this a UK thing?  8^)

Roger,wedoitheretoo,onlybetter;)
Actually,it'sacomputerperpetuatedthingdesignedtosavespace,orisitspaces?Michael

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:21:22 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Subject: Re: gearbox

At 08:01 PM 1/26/98 -0500, William L. Leacock wrote:
:Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
: 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 
  ^^     ^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^
 Seems that living in exile is not so bad, eh? ;)

-Michael 'America has been very-very-good-to-me!' Carradine
 50-80, 72-88, 89-RR

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:34:25 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Gearbox question

Nate,

No, you really can't assess the condition of a S-III gearbox just by
looking in the covers.  

There are only two ways I know to do it.  

#1,  (PREFFERED METHOD) Completly disassemble it, inspect the parts
(knowing what to look for), and accurately measure the clearances and
fix EVERTHING, and replace all seals, and use at least one tube of
Blue-glue during reassembly (My preference, to stop..or.well slow down
leaks.  

#2, If in the vehicle and the vehicle is running and drivable, is to
test it in use.  The vehicle must not have any loud exhaust, and really
should have the doors on and a hard top, otherwise important gearbox
noises may be obscured.  The shifter should shift correctly, without
unneccesary looseness.    It should synchronise always, when shifting
into any forward gear, and within the correct rev range for the motor
and gear. That is, don't expect it to go into gear if you shift into 1st
while going 50 Mph.  If you do this, it should block, and not go into
gear.
You need to run it long enough, say a couple hours minimum to get it
good and hot.   Being an alloy casing, the clearances tend to loosen
dramatically once worm, and problems, noises and excess whine are likely
to show up then.  It is not at all unheard of for a worn box to sound
and work fine when cold, and sound like a coffee-grinder once hot.  You
also must be able to ascertian whether a suspected gearbox problem may
be clutch related. Once good and worm, test that all gears hold under
hard acceleration, and hard complression braking.  Even though I hate to
do this in series Land Rovers, use the throttle pedal to jerk the
vehicle back and forth to see if the Gearbox will pop out of gear.  It
never should if in good shape.

NOTES ON INSPECTING/OVERHAULING A S-III Gearbox:

MAIN GEARBOX
A. Problem areas on the S-III in particular are the 1st/2nd gear and
synchro assembly.   It is very common for the dog teach to be partially
stripped on the 1st gear.  This will cause it to "pop out" of gear on
the over-run. Such as when using compression braking to descend a steep
hill (Scary when it happens). Likewise, the same think can happed to the
2nd gear wheel, only opposite.  2nd will pop out under acceleration.
This is because the two gears engage from opposite ends of the shaft,
yet the helixes are cut the same.  The problem can also be cause by loos
tolerance in the mainshaft bushing, synchro hub, or shift fork.  These
problems are common on any S-III that has seen appreciable were.  

The best rule of thumb is to inspect the 1st/2nd gears for missing/badly
worn dog teath,  for missing, chipped, or pitted helical teeth, and for
spalling or other problems inside the shaft bushing bearing surface. If
perfectly OK, then you can reuse it.  Then it is usually best to
completely replace the 1st/2nd synchro hub  and synchro cones (Balk
rings) REGARDLESS of percieved condition.  Then you must check the
clearance of the 1st/2nd shift fork on the synchro hub, and the
straitness of the fork.  This shift fork is prone to wear, and bending
and can be difficult to diagnose, although easy to replace if
neccessary. The reason is the design of the 1st/2nd synchro assembly
usually causes continuous wear on the fork. This is just a drawback of
the desing. It is also standard practice to replace all selector shaft
detent springs.  If you want it to work right in the 1st/2nd gear
assembly, the closer and tighter to specs you make everything in this
area, the better. It really has to be blueprinted, just like a race car
motor. 

Secondly, the reverse gear selector shaft stop must be VERY carefully
and correctly adjusted, and locked down with threadlocker.  Otherwise it
will likely come loose, and not correctly engage.  Although you can't
detect it, because it is a straight cut gear, A tooth will eventually
break off. You will then definately hear it. Replacement is not easy. 
Another uncommon problem with early S-III boxes is that the Revers shaft
will crack and break.  

A summary of the 1st/2nd gear problems: It is just a weak design. 
Basically it's what you get when you take a good design (S-II)
transmission, and try to cram to much stuff in it in effort to modernize
it (Add 1st/2nd synchromesh). 

While on the subject, something you have to watch especially carefully
for, early S-III boxes have forged, machined, and case hardened gears
(the old fashioned way).  Newer gears were fabricated with a powdered
steel casting-forging-somehow procedure.  You can't mix the two
reliably. 

Also the S-III shifter has a plastic ball on the end of the shaft to
engage the shifter forks. These are prone to wear and breakage.  It is
best to retrofit with a teflon ball.  It will shift smoother than new.
Also some VERY early (suffix A, 1971 production) boxes have a defect in
the main shifter lever.  It will break off where it enters the big pivot
ball.  But if it hasn't yet, it probably won't, unless it is very low
mileage.

The rest of the main box is very reliable.  The 3rd/4th gears and
synchro hub will basically last forever.  Although a close inspection
should be made.  Things to look for include making sure all of the hub
detent springs, which are flat spring steel, are in place on the
syncho.  Sometimes they fly out, but being such an excellent design, you
don't know the difference.

TRANSFER CASE

The Series Land Rover transfer case is VERY strong, but if you want the
transfercase to be quiet, and it can be very quiet, you must make
certian of several things:

1. Don't install a fairy overdrive.  If you do, you might as well forget
making anything quite, tight, or long lasting in the gearbox.

2. Make certian all gears are in good shape.  

3. The most important area of concern for quiteness is the intermediate
gear. The intermediate gear assembly, shaft and roller bearings must not
have too much internal wear. They are usually fine if properly
mainianed.  And most importantly of all, the intermediate gear side
thrust washers must be to spec. It takes shims, and carefull measuring
to acheive this.  Again, it needs to be blueprinted.  I usually use the
very minimum tolerance allowed by LR.  The tighter you make it, the less
room for oscillations to occur.  These oscillation will allow gear-whine
to occure. And it will get worse as the case heats up. being aluminum,
the case expands more than the stell gears, thus increasing the
clearance and the same time the oil is getting even thinner due to heat.
This really doesn't ocurr anywhere else in the transmission, as the end
float of all other gears are basically determined by steel-only
components. Most overhaulers just slap them thrust washers in, they are
bronze, and will wear.

4.  Output shaft preload is very important to noise, and the proper
functioning of most everything else in the transfercase. Again it need
to be just right, and it takes special shims to get it that way.  If
it's not, the gears and shaft will wear and whine, the speedo may not
work right, it could leak excessive oil, or worse it may not shift into
4-wheel drive easily. (It should be VERY easy to shift, always)

My wifes calling me for dinner, and more pain medication. Better go.

Email me if you want any more free tips

Garret

-From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:56:37 EST
-Subject: Gearbox question
-
-Hi all,
-
-I've got 2 SIII gearboxes sitting on the workshop floor.  If one is in
-good
-(not requiring rebuild) shape I'd rather put that in the restoration.  
-Question:
-
-With the top (and bottom) covers off, can I assess the float/freeplay
-at the
-bearings, check the circlips and the various shafts or do I have to
-take the
-box(es) apart to assess them.  (Assuming the gears are in good shape).
- If the
-box needs rebuilding, I'd rather take it to the local british vehicle
-shop
-(the guy drives a red SII) and have it done, but I'd rather just check
-it
-myself and put in it in if there are no problems.
-
-Nate

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:43:35 -0500
From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Subject: ser 2A  thermostst

Anyone have a US generic part # for a ser 2A thermostat ?
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:11:12 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: ser 2A  thermostst

Bill,

Strange you should ask.  I don't have the part number, but I was at the
local Parts America (formerly Western Auto), and they have them hanging
on the rack.  I couln't believe it. It's not listed in their thermo
parts catalog. But it was there, several of them.   It is the one with
the housing shoulder about 1/2" where it fits in the water outlet
casting.  The whole thermostat is maybe 1" thick, top to bottom.  Price
I think was about 8 dollars. 

Other than that, you could fool around and put in a small GM or Rover V8
thermostat.  But I wouldn't.  Too much trouble to rig, although a bunch
of thick O-rings will do it.  But I wouldn't do it again unless I had
to.    The heater won't get much flow either.  But it will work in a
pinch. Drill a small 1/15" hole it it first. 

Gut luck

 

William L. Leacock wrote:
> Anyone have a US generic part # for a ser 2A thermostat ?
> Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
>  88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0800
From: John Hong <jhong@best.com>
Subject: Rover letdown, joke, 

A blind man is walking down the street with his seeing-eye dog one day.
They come to a busy intersection and the dog, ignoring the high volume
of traffic zooming by on the street, leads the blind man right out into
the thick of the traffic.  This is followed by the screech of tires and
horns blaring as surprised drivers heading to a LandRover Rally  
swerve quickly so as not to run the pair down.

The blind man and the dog finally reach the safety of the sidewalk on 
the other side of the street and the blind man pulls a doggy treat out of his
coat pocket which he offers to the dog.   The driver of the last Rover in
the convoy
having observed the near fatal incident, can't control his amazement and
says to the blind man, 
"Why on earth are you rewarding  your dog with a cookie? He nearly got you
killed!"

(scroll down at your risk - dog lovers should press DELETE right NOW!!)

The blind man turns partially in his direction and replies, 
"To find  out where his head is, so I can kick his ass."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:18:10 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

>Towing lightweight horseboxes 30 miles in the UK is not the same as towing
>a heavy US box several hundred miles.  And over here, the speed limits are
>usually 65
No,I agree,its very different.Firstly,roads in this country are narrow.
Very narrow.As in,on some of them,you have to draw onto the grass verge
to let oncoming vehicles get past.The speed limit for a tug/trailer setup
is fifty,but you wouldnt want to go that fast anyway,if only because of
tight bends.I *have* seen trailers on motorways,but I wouldnt want to
tow on one of those,there are too many smartarse lorry drivers who think
it's funny to pass at speed as close as possible so you get involved in their
slipstream.If you want to cover the distance,you buy a lorry,not use a trailer.
Frankly,I dont see the relevance,here.I thought the original post was more
about whether an 88" *would* tow,not over what sort of distance(although
it clearly would,it seems to be a case of would you want to,which is
a different thing altogether).I introduced the horsebox as an example
of probably the most difficult load to pull,whether over five miles or
five hundred.The principle is the same.
And where distances are concerned,dont make the mistake of looking at
an English road map and thinking that you can get from A to B as fast
here as I understand you can over there.You have to allow *lots* more
time,particularly off motorways.Many of our roads were formed by sheep.
And I suspect *they* were drunk.Or the shepherd was.The Romans,of course,
sober,upright citizens that they were(not) built theirs all straight,
hilltop to hilltop.But then they *were* anticipating your Interstate
highways by a matter off several hundred years,since their roads
were primarily military ones.

>>wrong.Nice steady speed,no sudden alterations in course or speed,a properly
>P.S., I'd heard that a lot of people want to eliminate the second space
>after a period, but getting rid of all spaces after punctiation seems a bit
>harsh.  Is this a UK thing?  8^)
No,its a me thing.I dont leave a gap when I'm writing a letter,why
should I do so just because I'm using a crappy heap of glass and plastic:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:23:40 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

  Isnt' Hadrian's wall only like 80 miles long?

I wouldnt know.Probably.Although its mebbe a bit shorter now since
the local farmers have used it to build barns with for the last
N hundred years.
What I *do* know,having been there,that it was more than likely
the most unpopular posting in the world for the Roman Army.Its
bloody *bitter*.And the nearest pub's miles away.......
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:44:57 EST
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

In a message dated 1/26/98 8:23:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Uncle Rog writes:

<< As I understand it (and Nate, please jump
 in, since I know you & Weet have discussed this) horseboxes in the UK are
 lighter than US models and the distances involved are much shorter.>>

This is my understanding.  With that said, here in the Maryland horse country,
we go to many local outings (fox hunting, local shows, pony club) where the
traveling is very similar to the UK.  In this setting, the brick has pulled
the all steel, 8000 lb gvw bumper-pull horse trailer without missing a beat.
My main concern on these local roads is the Brick's single line drum brakes.
Even with the electric brakes on the trailer, I'd hate to have 5-7,000 pounds
of horse flesh and trailer pushing me along the road.  
 
 <<Towing lightweight horseboxes 30 miles in the UK is not the same as towing
 a heavy US box several hundred miles.  And over here, the speed limits are
 usually 65 with traffic moving at as much as 80mph, and although you
 wouldn't pull a horse anywhere near that fast, you do have to deal with
 other vehicles going that fast. >>

Not in a rover certainly.  However, (I know Bill A., Chevy is junk), my wife
will travel up to 80-85 mph in the 1 ton Chevy dually with the gooseneck
trailer. But we're talking a different beast--Tongue weight over the axles
with weight distributed across 4 tires in the back  and heavy duty brakes on
both the truck and trailer.  And even with that, the chevy goes through brakes
pretty fast (rear shoes will probably have to be replaced every 30 K).

Mike then wrote:

<<No,I agree,its very different.<snip>.The speed limit for a tug/trailer setup
is fifty,but you wouldnt want to go that fast anyway,if only because of
tight bends.I *have* seen trailers on motorways,but I wouldnt want to
tow on one of those,there are too many smartarse lorry drivers who think
it's funny to pass at speed as close as possible so you get involved in their
slipstream.>>

Again, this has to do with weight of tow vehicle, width and length.  In the
dually, even at speed, the big semi's don't cause much of a problem.  It's the
difference of 6 tires on the road with weight directly over the rear 4.

<<If you want to cover the distance,you buy a lorry,not use a trailer.>>

Actually, here in the US, on the freeways, truck and gooseneck trailer is
preferable to the "lorry" (we call them, oddly enough, horse boxes), unless
you put the BIG trucks under them (International, smaller Mack, big Ford like
the F600 or 700 or Chevy C60, C70).

I would like to stress again, that even though some of these hair-raising
towing stories have relatively benign endings, keep in mind that many do not.
An 88" can do significant towing but only at a safe (low speed).  Don't take
unnecessary chances here.  If you've done significant towing, even a small
boat, you'll do fine.  But be careful and double check your rig before pulling
out.  Once it starts rolling, it can be damn hard to stop if there's a
problem.

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