L-R Mailing Lists 1948-1998 Land Rover's 50th Anniversary

Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 Axel Pawlik [axelpawlik@31Re: fuel tank level units
2 "Chris Dillard"[cdillard13Re: Winches
3 car4doc [car4doc@concent12Re: 101 kits for sale??
4 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea27Re: Ace ventura pet detective and rovers
5 "Colin Marshall" [colmar18Re: The Chinese Wars...
6 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 34Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
7 Norm Lewis [norm@kpco.co9Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)
8 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea42Re: 101 kits for sale??
9 Andy Phillips [AnPi@nors27RE: 101 kits for sale??
10 "LT J Jackson" [lt_j_jac31Sound-deadening kits
11 mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marc44No LRO content - now bad towing experiences.
12 mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marc25RE: 101 kits for sale??
13 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us18Blast from the past...
14 "Paul Gussack" [pcg@tenn14Re: In tow
15 "Paul Gussack" [pcg@tenn12Breakfast
16 "Richard Marsden"[rmarsd53Re: Blast from the past...
17 mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marc29Re: 101 kits for sale??
18 "Richard Marsden"[rmarsd28Re: Breakfast
19 "Paul Gussack" [pcg@tenn18Re: PC Submissions
20 JSmallals [JSmallals@aol26Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)
21 MRogers315 [MRogers315@a39Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement
22 Eric Zipkin [ericz@cloud64Re: No LRO content - now bad towing experiences.
23 mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marc21Re: No LRO content - now bad towing experiences.
24 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o17Re[2]: No Help for Chinese LR Owner
25 "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti19Breakfast
26 Rick Grant [rgrant@cadvi43Re: Sound-deadening kits
27 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o24Re: Sound-deadening kits
28 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us16Re: Sound-deadening kits
29 Faye and Peter Ogilvie [25Re: New Shelby Cobras
30 Peter [nosimport@mailbag30Re: Sound-deadening kits
31 Paul Oxley [paul@adventu31Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement
32 reynoldsg@tfn.com 60Re: No help for Chinese Land Rover Owner
33 Neil Lamont [nlamon1@ti17Re: EALeveritt@aol.com: E-mail Charges: (fwd)
34 Neil Lamont [nlamon1@ti17Re: EALeveritt@aol.com: E-mail Charges: (fwd)
35 Eric Zipkin [ericz@cloud15FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION
36 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml21Holes in "Packet Shelf"
37 Peter [nosimport@mailbag24Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
38 Ray Harder [ccray@showme21Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
39 Jack Chomley [tlink@pron20Location Fairey Factory?
40 Peter [nosimport@mailbag21Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
41 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml59RE: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
42 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns26Nigel Strikes....Again
43 caloccia@senie.com 12Re: PC Submissions
44 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa18Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)
45 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa23Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION
46 Jtwinkle88 [Jtwinkle88@a16Stripping off paint
47 john cranfield [john.cra22Re: Nigel Strikes....Again
48 Rob Horstman [resrch!rob43Question RE : Brakes
49 john cranfield [john.cra19Re: Question RE : Brakes
50 Steve Fullwood [ansdf@TT42Ultimate towing story
51 nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs21ATTN: "Huub Pennings"
52 SPYDERS [SPYDERS@aol.com29Re: Stripping off paint
53 SPYDERS [SPYDERS@aol.com23Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION
54 SPYDERS [SPYDERS@aol.com23Re: Ultimate towing story
55 SPYDERS [SPYDERS@aol.com21Re: Ultimate towing story
56 David Cockey [dcockey@ti18Re: Landrover technical descriptions
57 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 27Penultimate Towing Story :(
58 David Cockey [dcockey@ti34Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
59 David Cockey [dcockey@ti26Re: New Shelby Cobras
60 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 20Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
61 David Cockey [dcockey@ti26Re: 101 kits for sale??
62 David Cockey [dcockey@ti27Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
63 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 22Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
64 David Scheidt [david@inf16Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience
65 GA D 90 [GAD90@aol.com> 8No Subject
66 Garret Scott [scottgs@us81Re: Towing with an 88"
67 Solihull@aol.com 36Phone number for Superwinch needed
68 SFmms [SFmms@aol.com> 22Minshaft nut tool picture
69 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@ri17Re: PTO What am I thinking
70 David Scheidt [david@inf14wiring diagram help
71 "Steve & Leona Campbell"54Fw: The Chinese Debacle, Bulkheads&Canopys, and other
72 John Hong [jhong@best.co76read me? Re: Mr. AH SO, Chinese Landy man.


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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:45:49 +0000
From: Axel Pawlik <axelpawlik@tinet.ie>
Subject: Re: fuel tank level units

Well, I took it apart Wednesday, fiddled with it, decided
the resistance readings where not consistent enough (maybe
contact problems). Mentally marked the sender unit to be
replaced. I fixed it again, the same way I found it, with
the second connector grounded with one of the sender's top 
screw.

Strange to say, the gauge works again. What did I do? Nothing
much apart from wiping off the dirt. Now it remains to be seen
for how long it'll continue working...

Bill wrote
>should not be grounded, perhaps the wire is connected to the wrong terminal.

TeriAnn wrote:
>Some senders also have a ground lug.  The new replacemnts made by Lucas 
>has the lug for the guage, a low level warning light lug and a ground 
>lug.  I have that kind on each of my three petrol tanks.  They are all 
>newish genuine Lucas sender units.

I wondered about that, too. I didn't find the proper warning light 
on the dash, and then the sender hasn't got the third connector.
If the instrument cluster hadn't been fiddled with a lot, I'd start
thinking that maybe the Diesel was retrofitted earlier...

	cheers, Axel

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From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:18:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Winches

Thanks for all of the responses concerning the Ramsey Winches. I think it's
pretty obvious from the responses thus far that the REP8000 is not worth
acquiring.  I guess I should go with the ols "stand-by" Warn or Superwinch.
Does anyone have the phone #'s for these guys so I can get a ctalog and
more info.  Thanks in advance!!

Chris

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:22:52 -0600
From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: 101 kits for sale??

Hi Andy,
 I looked up that ad for 101 in crates.  The Craddock salvage is the
company & from 1765.99 lbs. (page 57 in land Rover World)  It is just
what we would love to have here in the US.  IS there any company
importing 101 legally or will for some one?
-- 
Rob Davis_Chicago

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:25:57 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: Ace ventura pet detective and rovers

>Kai ora.... Watched a movie on the tele last night called "Ace ventura pet
>detective" if you have not seen it, it is well worth watching. Main vehicles
>are landrovers and what this guy does to it is bloody amazing
>Cheers.... Tom Dixon
>ZL2UPG
>79 series 3 lbw (in many pieces)
>tomd@clear.net.nz

Tom, We built a total of 8 (pieced together, barely running) 88's for the
movie, 5 SIIA's and 3 late IIA's with SIII grills. We shipped them off to
South Carolina where the majority of the movie was filmed, and the movie is
pretty fun IMO (stupid, but in a funny way). Makes you want to drive fast
through the woods doesn't it!? They looked pretty good didn't they!? It is
amazing what a lot of bondo, a tune up kit, and a quicky all over (and I
mean all over) paint job can do to a 400. Rover! Glad you enjoyed it!

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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From: "Colin Marshall" <colmar@picknowl.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Chinese Wars...
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:04:46 +1030

Hmm....Bitchy aren't they...heh heh....

Oh, didja hear the one about....only kidding....

Colin Marshall
colmar@picknowl.com.au
54 Atkinson Drive,
Burton.
South Australia.
5110.
'52 80" SWB #26660838
(3 more pending...Don't laugh!)

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:26:01 EST
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

In a message dated 98-01-23 05:57:42 EST, you write:

<< We use "overrun" brakes.That is to
 say,when the tug brakes,the towbar cup on the trailer is compressed
 rearwards on a spring and operates mechanical brakes on all four trailer
 wheels.I believe you people use a different system?
 I submit that towing horses is perhaps the acid test of both tug,and driver.
 (Comments,Nate?) >>

Both overrun brakes and electric brakes (operated through the plug) are
acceptable here at least in many states.  Both work well if taken care of.
Electric brakes suffer from the Prince of Darkness frequently but if well
cared for, are supposed to be easier on the tow vehicle.  Overrun brakes work
very well but must be well maintained as well (probably easier for DIY to deal
with).  Most US trailers now come with electric brakes: I don't why.

  Horses are the worst for trailering.  Not only do they move around
erratically (often one is biting at the other and so the "attacked" horse will
lurch back or worse to the side) but add to this that most of their weight is
3-4 feet above the trailer floor and you've got a serious elevation of the
center of gravity.

I agree with Mike's driving points and also will say that at least at low
speeds (I haven't tried it on the freeway yet) the Brick (67 SIIa 88" single
line brakes) will pull the 2 horse horsebox with little fuss. (Ours has
electric brakes).  

Nate 

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:27:57 -0700
From: Norm Lewis <norm@kpco.com>
Subject: Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)

Does anyone on the list have experiences (good or bad) with this outfit?
They advertise a lot in Hemmings.

Norm Lewis

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:39:22 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: 101 kits for sale??

>Hi Andy,
> I looked up that ad for 101 in crates.  The Craddock salvage is the
>company & from 1765.99 lbs. (page 57 in land Rover World)  It is just
>what we would love to have here in the US.  IS there any company
>importing 101 legally or will for some one?

In all my dealings with importing, I have to say that these 101's, even as
kits are off limits. I got hired by a Disney Movie that wanted some 110's
and 101's recently. The only way I could get the vehicles in, and remember
these were for a movie and were never going to see the road, was to bring
them in under a bond, then they would have to be crushed as a DOT guy
watched after the movie, and in no longer than 6 months, or I would have to
prove that they were shipped out of the USA. Needless to say, we never went
to the trouble. I had about 7 people working on that project on both sides
of the Atlantic, and not one of those freight forwarder professionals could
come up with a way to make it work.

Having said that... I saw a special a few days ago about the new Shelby
Cobras that Carrol Shelby is making to battle all the "kit cars" that are
out there. The story said that he ships them from his factory as a kit, and
then a dealer puts them together with your choice of engine and trans. It
said that this got them around all the crash protection stuff etc. That
might be an avenue to check out, and might get you by some of the red tape.

There are a few illeagl ways to get it in, but I haven't found the legal
way yet, and I've been looking for 5 years.  Lots of people claim to have
the answer, but when you ask them about it, and where their Rover is, they
then admit they have never actually done it.

Hope you find the loop hole, and share it with the rest of us. :-)

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@norsk-data.co.uk>
Subject: RE: 101 kits for sale??
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:52:29 -0000

Hi Rob,

I'm afraid that if that advert is dated from last year you will not be
able to get a 101. I remember ringing Craddocks and it was they who said
that they sold out on the first day. Don't blame people for snapping
them up though, over here that's an astounding price if the parts are
all in good condition. Just to be sure, what is the date of the advert?
I might even ring them just to check! Thanks for digging out the
information for me.

Andy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	car4doc [SMTP:car4doc@concentric.net]
> Sent:	Friday, January 23, 1998 1:23 PM
> To:	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:	Re: 101 kits for sale??

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
> -- 
> Rob Davis_Chicago

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Date: 23 Jan 1998 09:20:23 -0400
From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Subject: Sound-deadening kits

Now that my SIII is a great-running, dependable daily driver which will
experience no further mechanical difficulties, it's time to think about what
to do with all this darned money I no longer have to spend on Smith's
Functionator Straps, Weber Fuel Decelerant Cartridges, Hypoid Retention
Preventers, ad infinitum.

Investment portfolio?   Child's college fund?  No.

I'm thinking Sound Deadening Kit.   I've seen them in LRW (pretty fancy and
thus pretty expensive) and J. C. Whitney (A roll of something which, in black
and white on their flimsy catalog paper, looks suspiciously like a roll of
tarpaper with a 7000% markup).  

I'm interested in your experiences with any of these.  Do they work?  How
about for diesels? (currently I'm flogging my 2.2.5 petrol like a rented mule;
someday I'll swap in a diesel for the MPG).

Any replies appreciated.  And thanks to all who helped out with locations for
a Hi-Lift mount.  I still can't figure out where I want to mount it, though: 
The right rear outside mount seems best, but - idiotically - I don't want to
cover up my cool Land-Rover/Station Wagon badge.   Even Series owners have a
degree of vanity.

Jeff Jackson
73 SIII 88 
Waterford, CT

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:36:38 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: No LRO content - now bad towing experiences. 

> Ok, a serious answer:
> There IS truth to what your friend says.  I once towed an Alfa Romeo
> GTV-6 about 250 miles on the interstate from the *local* dealer in
> Atlanta back home to Knoxville, Tennesse with my 88 air-portable.   
> It was hair raising experience. Both for me, and the other drivers on
> the road.  We did not use a tandem trialer, but one of those which you
> drive the rear wheels up on, leaving the vehicle facing backwards with

Well, if we are getting into "when I was a kid" stories about towing,
I have quite a collection at the old age of 26.

Story 1.
I'll skip the bit about taking my then girlfriend, now wife on a camping
trip in my trusty '78 maverick (and she still married me!)
....needless to say it broke down. 
A few weeks later after deciding to not just abandon it, I towed it
back to Champaign IL with a 4 cylinder S10 (weighs about 1/2 the 
maverick) on a tow dolly. The dolly/maverick combo managed to lift the
rear wheels of the truck of the ground and push it sideways around
corners :0

Story 2:
Towing my TVR from Champaign to Chicago with my f250 w/ 460. Cruising up the
county highway (route 47), whern I noticed a wheel bouncing thru
the stubble field on my right..."Goddamn, that wheel looks familiar" I thought,
What was best was people coming the other way were also looking at the 
wheel rolling thru the field, then looking at me!
I pulled over, and found one of my hubs had sheared of the trailer. That 460
in my old ford never skipped a beat...didn't even feel it shear. Thank god
it was a tandem axle. I just jacked up the axle, chained it up to stop
it dragging on the floor, collected my wheel from the field, and
drove the rest of the way to Chi'town with a three wheeled trailer.

As you might imagine, I now check the grease caps on my trailer...I still
tow grossly overweighted badly balanced tow dollys with an S10 though.
ONLY JOKING (haver to say that so I don't get bashed by the goody goody 
crowd).

Marcus

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:41:51 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: RE: 101 kits for sale??

Andy,

Yes. You can buy one in bits, and get it thru customs as parts. Reassemble
in US on private property, drive/use on private property. Heck,
some, states (e.g., Nebraska) would maybe even title it (NE only requires
the british export certificate, not the DOT/EPA certs!! However,
you couldn't sell it easily/legally).

Marcus

> I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you but being in the UK I am
> extremely interested in a 101 in crates. The last time I saw an add they
> sold out on the first day! Can you tell me where I can find out more
> info please? If the price is right I might buy one straight away.
> I have heard on this list that if you don't plan on taking the vehicle
> out on the public roads or property it won't be of any interest to the
> inspectors and DOT in general. Look in the archive for references to
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> inspectors and DOT in general. Look in the archive for references to
> importing 110s from the UK or Europe.

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 9:48:22 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Blast from the past...

Wow. I feel like it's 1996 all over again. These dusty old threads about 
winches, bulkheads, political correctness, origins of "breakfast", 101 
importation and trailers have me pining for the old days. I guess the 
winter doldrums have set in for most of our fellow listers. Let's all 
wish real hard for an early spring so that these tired old subjects will 
be quickly forgotten and we can get back to talking about how to repair 
our Rovers.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:51:14 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Gussack" <pcg@tennis.org>
Subject: Re: In tow

I seem to recall from Driver Ed (that's the name of the guy who taught me to
drive) that the size of the tires on your tow vehicle has an impact on how fast
you can travel.  Something about diameter and rotational force vs. the law of
mechanical advatange over the inverse square of how much weight and if you are
in a series vehicle or a disco plushie times the amount of Guiness consumed at
the time, or that may be the formula for picking the superbowl winner.  

Paul G
SIII SWB "Grendal"

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:01:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Gussack" <pcg@tennis.org>
Subject: Breakfast

I remember a discussion about this and theories about lights looking like eggs
and dogs eating breakfast.  This LR as meal theory is interesting, would that
make the tailgate a snack?  This would explain why many drivers seem to be
trying to eat my a** in traffic!!

Paul G
SIII SWB "Grendal"

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From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:03:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Blast from the past...

Talking about winter doldrums, you haven't had the news headlines dominated
by two escaped pork chops, for the good part of a week!     :-)

Back to Landies...

Just had a puncture repaired. By coincidence, I had one 2 weeks ago (at
speed on a motorway sliproad). Luckily this one was during the day whilst I
was on a fire training course (ie. I was parked).
The repair place said I had two punctures and it was due to corrosion on
the rim.
Plausible.

Rims: Rennovate, or replace? What does the panel think?

I'd probably pay someone to do it, and fit new inners  at the same time.
Also get the tracking checked, and the steering tightened.  (the sliproad
puncture, is bound to have knocked the tracking for 6).

Also, speedos: I've had a dead speedo. Just replaced the head with a
2ndhand one. The cog and the cable are both about 1yr old. The speedo is
still dead. Anyone any ideas?

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR 25 yrs and 4 days old)
PS: Yes, Beverley Archives are still open - I got my Vehicle Card p/copy 1
day after the truck's 25th Anniversary of being delivered to the British
Army!

badams@usia.gov on 01/23/98 02:48:22 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Blast from the past...

Wow. I feel like it's 1996 all over again. These dusty old threads about
winches, bulkheads, political correctness, origins of "breakfast", 101
importation and trailers have me pining for the old days. I guess the
winter doldrums have set in for most of our fellow listers. Let's all
wish real hard for an early spring so that these tired old subjects will
be quickly forgotten and we can get back to talking about how to repair
our Rovers.
Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:58:18 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: Re: 101 kits for sale??

> > I looked up that ad for 101 in crates.  The Craddock salvage is the
> >company & from 1765.99 lbs. (page 57 in land Rover World)  It is just
> >what we would love to have here in the US.  IS there any company
> >importing 101 legally or will for some one?
> In all my dealings with importing, I have to say that these 101's, even as
> kits are off limits. I got hired by a Disney Movie that wanted some 110's
> and 101's recently. The only way I could get the vehicles in, and remember
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> to the trouble (USA) 04864
> 207.594.8086.

Hmmmm. Really? I mean, say you ship the 101 in two lots, and that sucker
is REALLY dissasembled. How the heck are customs going to be able
to tell the difference between that pile of landy parts and the 
100's of 40 foot containers that come loaded with landy parts for resale
to places like ECRC?? You are importing parts. they stay as parts
until they arrive on your ranch. Add water, bake for 6 months,
presto, a fluffy 101. Just say they are parts, not a dissasembled 101.
Note: I guess for a landy parts company, customs may get a bit shifty,
but for a private individual....?

Comments?

Marcus

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From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:05:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Breakfast

And my cab area smells of Austrian wine at the moment!  :-)

an icy morning.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

pcg@tennis.org on 01/23/98 03:01:22 PM

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Breakfast

I remember a discussion about this and theories about lights looking like
eggs
and dogs eating breakfast.  This LR as meal theory is interesting, would
that
make the tailgate a snack?  This would explain why many drivers seem to be
trying to eat my a** in traffic!!
Paul G
SIII SWB "Grendal"

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:11:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul Gussack" <pcg@tennis.org>
Subject: Re: PC Submissions

No not some sadomaschoist thing (See Subject line) I have seen from time to
time arguments on the list of this sort when a member has been offended and we
go into post after post discussing both sides.  It can be ineteresting but it
seems there is rarley a resolution.  I  suggest that all participants settle
this like true Series LR owners.  They get together on neutral territory and
see who can get some old junk of a SIII to run at spec.  In the interest of
preserving the list I'll volunteer "Grendal" who is currently suffering from
synchro problems in the tranny and bizarre wiper behavior.  

remember Keep Rovering

Paul G
SIII SWB "Grendal"

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From: JSmallals <JSmallals@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:01:30 EST
Subject: Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)

I have tried to order three seperate times from him:

#1--he advertised four IIA jump seats in the original "elephant hide" for
$50...I called him and he said "no problem"  I'll ship them out to you in the
morning.  Three weeks later no seats.  I call again and he says he got tied up
and was unable to ship them, but he will send them the following
morning...three more weeks, no seats.  Starting to see a pattern???

#2--I tried again--he had a IIA hand throttle for $10!!!...I never saw the
throttle...another canceled check.

#3--good IIA tranny--$200--I call him and he tells me he has 3!! of
them...will ship first thing in the morning C.O.D....ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...no
tranny.

Does this answer your question?

James Small
Denver, CO
66IIA SWB SW

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From: MRogers315 <MRogers315@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:03:41 EST
Subject: Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement

From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@trshp.trs.ntc.nokia.com>

Could somebody tell me how the LWB hoods fasten to the windshield
or bulkhead? 

It sounds to me that you have a set of hoops for a 3/4 canvas hood which still
requires a truck cab to keep you dry. What you need are the 2 pieces that I
believe are called "door frames" and the "screen top bar" that the canvas
hooks onto. The "door frames" have gutters to help keep out the rain plus
hooks that the canvas holds onto (and useually a hook to hang your coat on)
these bolt to the "screen top bar" and to lugs on the frontmost of the rear
"hoops" forming a solid frame for tensioning the roof. The "screen top bar
bolts directly onto the top of the windscreen (surprising that) and is shaped
to curve the canvas towards the screen and also has hooks for canvas
atatchment.

Now you know what you are looking for Good Hunting.

Mike Rogers

Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid (with green mould covered rag top)

<I  ask this because I purchased via the phone the 
<3 hoops and crossmembers for about US$20 from a guy here in Finland,
>who placed an ad in the bi-weekly trader paper here. Thus I presume I
<have everything I need for a 3/4 hood, but what above my head? I don't 
<have a truck cab. What do you call the piece(s) I need above doors & 
<windscreen to fasten a full hood? Can one roll back the part above
<the front seats with a full hood? What are my options? Excuse my 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
<naivete, as I've never seen up close a hood on a LR in my life!
<R. Wade Hughes

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:28:14 -0500
From: Eric Zipkin <ericz@cloud9.net>
Subject: Re: No LRO content - now bad towing experiences. 

Since we're sharing towing horror stories, I thought I might enter the fray.

First, there was the time that we were towing a car trailer (unbraked) with
a Toyota Cressida Station Wagon.  One day, whole out for a ride, we threw a
rod in our '09 Franklin...quick ride home, hook up the trailer and go back
to retreive our car.  Here's the picture:  Franklin (rear wheel brakes
only) facing uphill, Toyota (in park with no driver) with trailer backed up
to rear wheels of Franklin...start rolling Franklin onto trailer....weight
lifts rear wheels of Toyota off the ground....draw a diagram if you can't
figure out what happened next.  No one was hurt, thankfully.

Next was the experience of flat towing my father's 109 back from Virginia
with my 109.  NEVER AGAIN!!!!  Ten hours driving a naturally unstable
rig...even at my young and stupid age...is way too much.

Oh then there was the "Zippy-Tow" incident....but the towing wasn't so bad
then ... everyone knows that story

Seriously, I've had quite a bit of experience towing just about anything
behind all different types of vehicles...the most important things to have
are the proper equipment and patience.  
	1) Trailer: Anything beyond a lightweight utility trailer (1000 lbs or so)
should have brakes....I've used both types (hydraulic and electric) and
they both work fine...the electric have the advantage of being able to
actuate them manually, the prevent a tail wagging dog scenario the
hydraulics don't get drowned when you launch a boat...take your pick.  If
at all possible, use a trailer as opposed to a dolly or flat towing...if
you know what's good for you.
	2) Tow vehicle:  Almost any heavy-duty vehicle will tow well (if you have
the patience to put up with the lack of acceleration.  What's most
important is a proper hitch (I've seen some pretty good pretzel imitations)
and a properly maintained braking system.  Although I've never towed with
an 88" or 90 the theory that they are better tow vehicles is sound.  The
moment for every movement of the tow vehicle is that much reduced....closer
to the ideal of a fifth wheel trailer.  I once towed a '31 Buick on a
rental trailer behind a motorhome....talk about overhang....if not for the
vastly greater weight on the part of the motorhome, the whole rig would
have been seriously dangerous.
	3) Tie-downs....very important...invest in some good ones.  For years, I
used whatever rope was available....until I saw an entire tow rig go over
on the highway.  Because the vehicle on the trailer was properly tied down,
it never rolled off the trailer and suffered only minor damage.  I cringe
to think of the other option.
	4) Loading:  Follow the guidelines outlined in the "Land Rover Experience"
 Make sure that about 10% of the etire weight of the trailer is on the
tongue...this makes a world of difference with stability.  Many people
don't do this becuase the rear suspension on newer vehicles is so soft, the
nose of the tow vehicle ends up pointing in the air....  This is also a
disadvantage with flat towing and tow dollies....its impossible to get such
a weight on the dolly.
	5) Patience---this says it all.

What do I use now? I was lucky enough to win an aluminum fltbed trailer
with four wheel electric brakes in a contest.  Except for the lack of
acceleration, the rig works great behind my V8 Rover.  If I want a smoother
ride or a little more stability, I borrow a friend's suburban.

As always, YMMV
Eric

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:51:12 -0600
From: mtooze@tan.unl.edu (Marcus Tooze)
Subject: Re: No LRO content - now bad towing experiences.

> 	3) Tie-downs....very important...invest in some good ones.  For years, I
> used whatever rope was available....until I saw an entire tow rig go over
> on the highway.  Because the vehicle on the trailer was properly tied down,
> it never rolled off the trailer and suffered only minor damage.  I cringe
> to think of the other option.

Oh yeh Eric, you reminded of my third story...
Towing a GT6 on the same trailer (now with 4 wheels again, and all grease
caps in place) with an Isuzu Pooper (has no bearing on the story, other 
than to say it's a crap vehicle). Stopped at a toll booth in Chicago. Truck 
driver behind us is honking and flashing lights wildy at us. Get out and 
check the '6 to find the tie down chains have loosene/fell off and the
GT6 rear wheels were hanging off the back of the trailer, almost
ready to touch the ground (very Knightrider).

Marcus

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 11:26:08 EST
Subject: Re[2]: No Help for Chinese LR Owner

>  The RRO list 
>seems to have much less of this drivel.

Hmmm... maybe I should check that out. I find it hard to believe though, 
considering how ridiculous things get on the Rovers North CoilSprunng P.O.S. 
b-board. (bored)

later
DaveB 
Coilsprung wanabee
Arlington VA

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:58:51 -0600
From: "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti" <passaretti@sol.med.ge.com>
Subject: Breakfast

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Gussack <pcg@tennis.org> writes:

    Paul> I remember a discussion about this and theories
    Paul> about lights looking like eggs and dogs eating
    Paul> breakfast.  This LR as meal theory is interesting,
    Paul> would that make the tailgate a snack?  This would
    Paul> explain why many drivers seem to be trying to eat my
    Paul> a** in traffic!!

Well, a breakfast is a piece of furniture, kind of like
a hutch, with cabinets on the sides.  If you squint at the
front of a landy, I could see the resemblance.  No, wait,
that's a breakfront.  Never mind.  
						-MM

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:04:55 -0700
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Sound-deadening kits

At 09:20 AM 23/01/98 -0400, LT J Jackson, wrote

>I'm thinking Sound Deadening Kit.   I've seen them in LRW (pretty fancy and
>thus pretty expensive) and J. C. Whitney (A roll of something which, in black
>and white on their flimsy catalog paper, looks suspiciously like a roll of
>tarpaper with a 7000% markup).

I just recently stumbled across a Web page that has some good information
about doing your own soundproofing.  The company in question sells sound
deadening materials for aircraft which sure can be a lot louder than any LR.  

At any rate, in addition to flogging their stuff they have a very
informative booklet on line about how to go about sound deadening for a/c,
cars, trucks and boats without having to buy their stuff.

http://aircraft_r.321media.com/soundprf.html

The home page is 

http://aircraft_r.321media.com/sphome.html

There's also a roofing material called "iceguard".  It's a thin plasticky
rubber like sheet substance sold in four foot wide rolls for about 75C$
which goes on before the shingles.  There's a self adhesive kind I believe
but I got the regular stuff and I found that two layers of it in the roof
made an immediate difference.  

I do believe that I got the idea for using that stuff from someone on this
list a couple of years ago but I can't remember who it was, sorry.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 12:16:50 EST
Subject: Re: Sound-deadening kits

>I'm thinking Sound Deadening Kit.   I've seen them in LRW (pretty fancy and
>thus pretty expensive) and J. C. Whitney (A roll of something which, in black
>and white on their flimsy catalog paper, looks suspiciously like a roll of
>tarpaper with a 7000% markup).  

get small sheets of sticky back tarpaper. Mount them individually on each piece 
of the friewall. One each on the floor panels. Spray the inside of the tranny 
tunnel piece with that tar-based undercoating. 

>Any replies appreciated.  And thanks to all who helped out with locations for
>a Hi-Lift mount.  I still can't figure out where I want to mount it, though: 
>The right rear outside mount seems best, but - idiotically - I don't want to
>cover up my cool Land-Rover/Station Wagon badge.   Even Series owners have a
>degree of vanity.

aww come on jeff, just keep the jack in the living room. 
later
DaveB

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:25:33 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Sound-deadening kits

I do believe that I got the idea for using that stuff from someone on 
this
list a couple of years ago but I can't remember who it was, sorry.

That was your's truly...Mr. Cheapskate.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:29:27 -1000
From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: Re: New Shelby Cobras

	I was reading something about the new old shelby cobra a couple of years
ago.  I seem to remember the article said that when shelby ended production
back in the 60's or whenever, he had some left over pieces which he psuedo
manufactured to get whatever is required as a titleable vehcile and then
stored the pieces.  They were not complete but I don't remember how far
complete the article mentioned they were.  The gist of the story was they
were actually 1960's vehicles just being titled which allowed shelby to get
around all the new safety requirements.. 
	I could be wrong on the above but that is what I remember from the article.
Aloha Peter
>Having said that... I saw a special a few days ago about the new Shelby
>Cobras that Carrol Shelby is making to battle all the "kit cars" that are
>out there. The story said that he ships them from his factory as a kit, and
>then a dealer puts them together with your choice of engine and trans. It
>said that this got them around all the crash protection stuff etc. That
>might be an avenue to check out, and might get you by some of the red tape.
>From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 21 lines)]
>207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
>http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:53:18 -0800
From: Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Sound-deadening kits

Adams, Bill wrote:
> I do believe that I got the idea for using that stuff from someone on
> this
> list a couple of years ago but I can't remember who it was, sorry.
> That was your's truly...Mr. Cheapskate.
> Bill Adams

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
> '81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
> "Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"
More on this. Look into the black closed-cell foam used to insulate
heating/cooling pipes, etc. Available from HVAC suppliers in rolls or
sheets from 1/4" to 1" thick. Won't absorb moisture! Also I once used
the waterheater insulating "kit" from a hardware store for the roof. It
has a white liner and 2" fibreglas insulation. Maybe $10.00 total.
Cheeeeeeeeep!
Cheers   Peter
'60 109
'65 88 w/plow
'70 88 for parts
'73 88 daily
'52 Champ  getting uglier 
-- 

http://www.mailbag.com/users/nosimport/

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:57:25 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement

Paul Quin wrote:

> Mr. Hughes writes:
> >In my message about hoods, the bulkhead I referred to was the
> one behind the seats...Isn't the front one the "breakfast"? <
> The breakfast is the bit that holds up the radiator & headlights (on
> older Series II's)

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 28 lines)]
> > or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uhh,

Your bulkhead would be a South African (regional derivative of Anglo Saxon
normally referred to as "Sefrican") "firewall" - the thing that keeps your
tootsies cool when your engine flames out. The "breakfast" is also known as
the radiator panel.

Regards

Paul - for whatever this is worth - Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin, your online African adventure specialists
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za & http://AfricanAdrenalin.com
into Africa adventures, your African adventure webzine
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: reynoldsg@tfn.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:23:59 -0500
Subject: Re: No help for Chinese Land Rover Owner

Folks,

This is the last time you'll hear from me for a while (unless I see 
that the thread continues slamming me in public).

My intent in my original followup to the thread was simply to state my 
opinion.  If you don't agree with me that's fine.  However, be aware 
that many different people and cultures are reading this list and it 
just doesn't make sense to offend people - there's no need for it.  If 
you're looking for humor, there are plenty of appropriate forums for 
it.  Consider that many people have limited time to read the list and 
non Land Rover content eats into that time.  It's not a "PC" thing, 
it's a common courtesy thing.

I checked the web archives today to see what was going on with this 
theread and was rather surprised what I found...

As to the many follow ups from Michael Fredette that include text 
written by me (though never properly attributed), those were sent to 
him in private email.  He never asked permission to post those to the 
list and I never intended them to end up there as I didn't want to 
keep this whole thing going in a public forum.  It will be interesting 
to see if his final response to me ends up on the list, as it includes 
some very choice vocabulary that is not appropriate no matter what 
your opinion on the matter.

I have unsubscribed from the list as of yesterday and will not be back 
in the forseeable future as I have quite frankly been soured on Series 
Rover ownership.

If anyone wishes to continue this discussion, please take it to 
private email and don't subject the whole list to any more of this 
crap.

As for Michael Fredette, please learn some internet etiquette - it 
could potentially save your skin sometime (there have been law suits 
over what you did).  Don't worry, I'm not the sue happy type and have 
no intention of taking you to court over such a thing but think before 
you act in the future.

The invitation is still open to you folks for the monthly meetings in 
Framingham, email me for details.  I won't be posting the monthly 
invites to this list in the future.

Finally, if you were driving a 109 west bound on the Mass Pike this 
morning in the Newton/Needham area around 7:30 this morning I saw your 
truck - nice.  I was heading eastbound :(.

Have fun and don't forget to play nice,
Jeff Reynolds
1995 Beluga Black Discovery
Rovers North Roof Rack
4 Hella Rallye 4000's
1 Hella Work Lamp

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:12:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Neil  Lamont <nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: EALeveritt@aol.com: E-mail Charges: (fwd)

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Mark Stephen Worthen wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:24:55 -0600
> From: Leonel J Bernard <joyleob@juno.com>
> To: fbolek@aol.com, ddg001@sprynet.com, edagrahamsr@juno.com,
>     jhonca@juno.com, dale166@juno.com, sylvialn@aol.com,
>     tmason1@maine.rr.com, singl5@juno.com, mwballet@juno.com,
>     pablovance@juno.com, hlweaver@email.msn.com, fwise@juno.com,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 76 lines)]
> >>>Thank you.
> --------- End forwarded message ----------

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:14:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Neil  Lamont <nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu>
Subject: Re: EALeveritt@aol.com: E-mail Charges: (fwd)

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Mark Stephen Worthen wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:24:55 -0600
> From: Leonel J Bernard <joyleob@juno.com>
> To: fbolek@aol.com, ddg001@sprynet.com, edagrahamsr@juno.com,
>     jhonca@juno.com, dale166@juno.com, sylvialn@aol.com,
>     tmason1@maine.rr.com, singl5@juno.com, mwballet@juno.com,
>     pablovance@juno.com, hlweaver@email.msn.com, fwise@juno.com,
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 76 lines)]
> >>>Thank you.
> --------- End forwarded message ----------

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:20:29 -0500
From: Eric Zipkin <ericz@cloud9.net>
Subject: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION

WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES!!!!!!

I sit here at my computer, attempting to focus with one good eye, and one
with a half a dozen sutres in it.  Last friday, I was cleaning up the shop
(see what I get for that) and I disconnected a shop air hose.  The end of
the hose shot back at me and struck me in the left eye.  I came very close
to losing sight in that eye forever.  

Take my advise, invest in a decent pair of shop glasses, keep them clean
and wear them!!!!!  Its aufully hard to off-road by braille.  

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:20:37 -0800

A rather pointless question:

I was sipping coffee and checking over my newly painted bulkhead last
night when I noticed the four holes in the bottom of the 'packet shelf'
(for lack of a better term) near the lip, in front of the passenger
seat.  There is a matching line of four holed under the steering column.
 I had assumed that these were drain holes for the shelf but that
wouldn't make sense as they are not at the lowest point, where water
would pool.

Anybody know what they are for?

Paul Quin
1961 Series II
Victoria, BC  Canada

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:31:59 -0800
From: Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"

Paul Quin wrote:
> A rather pointless question:
> I was sipping coffee and checking over my newly painted bulkhead last
> night when I noticed the four holes in the bottom of the 'packet shelf'
> (for lack of a better term) near the lip, in front of the passenger
> seat.  There is a matching line of four holed under the steering column.
>  I had assumed that these were drain holes for the shelf but that

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> 1961 Series II
> Victoria, BC  Canada
Paul,
	They probably facilitate navigation devises from the now-passenger
seat. Whaddya think?  Cheers   Peter

Too many LR's
-- 

http://www.mailbag.com/users/nosimport/

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:32:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Paul Quin wrote:
> Subject: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
> I was sipping coffee and checking over my newly painted bulkhead last

paul, did you paint the bulkhead on or off the vehicle.  i am
thinking about painting mine on-the-vehicle a little at a time.
move some stuff, degrease, sand some, mask some, spray.  go on to next
area.  about 3 on the inside and 5 or 6 in the engine compartment.
what do you think...

the idea of taking it out is unpleasant.  unhooking lots of things
and doing bigger areas is not either...

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:43:14 +1000
From: Jack Chomley <tlink@pronet.net.au>
Subject: Location Fairey Factory?

Hi Roverologists,

Can anyone please help me with the current address in the U.K. where
the Fairey Overdrive is manufactured? I am making a trip to the U.K.
soon and wish to visit them.
Please reply to my personal E-Mail address, as I am not on the digest,
Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Jack Chomley

Telelink Communications (Australia)

E-Mail: tlink@pronet.net.au

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:49:32 -0800
From: Peter <nosimport@mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"

Ray Harder wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Paul Quin wrote:
> > Subject: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
> > I was sipping coffee and checking over my newly painted bulkhead last
> paul, did you paint the bulkhead on or off the vehicle.  i am
> thinking about painting mine on-the-vehicle a little at a time.
> move some stuff, degrease, sand some, mask some, spray.  go on to next

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> Sincerely,
> Ray Harder
can't help it... it is Friday afterall.
Is this where difficuties are made harder?    (sorry ray)
Peter

http://www.mailbag.com/users/nosimport/

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:59:53 -0800

Hi Ray,

I had to replace both footwells so I decided to remove the bulkhead.  It
wasn't that hard to remove but as I haven't put it back yet...I'll let
you know how it goes! 

If yours is not too rusty, your method of attack may work.  I find that
the more that I take off, the more work I find to do, so maybe some
things are better left hidden ;-)

I am also putting in a new wiring harness and stripping and repainting
the frame.

There was quite a bit of rust in the footwells and at least three coats
of different coloured paint on the bulkhead so I decided to have it
chemically stripped by a local company, along with the breakfast panel
(that word again)  Both panels were dipped in a strong solvent/acid
solution  and then pressure washed.  They came back looking great with
all the paint and rust gone from inside and outside.  They were so clean
that one of the body shops that I took them to thought they were
stainless steel until I pointed out the rust holes...didn't go back
there.

I then took the bulkhead and breakfast panel to a local body shop and
had new footwells put in along with some other minor body work.  Both
panels were then primed and painted in Limestone.

They look great but the whole process ended up costing my about C$900.00
 Still cheaper that a new bulkhead.

Your process of working at it a little bit at a time is how I ended up
doing the frame.  Grind off the rust/old paint with an angle grinder and
wire wheel on a drill, prime with Rust Destroyer (really good stuff) and
paint.  

So far, I've done the frame from the 'Bulkhead Behind The Seats TM'
forward.  I'll take off the box and do the rear when the front is back
together.  I'll also be putting on a new rear cross member.

Paul Quin
1961 Series II 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Ray Harder [SMTP:ccray@showme.missouri.edu]
>Sent:	Friday, January 23, 1998 1:32 PM
>To:	Paul Quin
>Cc:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Re: Holes in "Packet Shelf"
>On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Paul Quin wrote:
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 25 lines)]
>Sincerely,
>Ray Harder 

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:54:42 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Nigel Strikes....Again

Well, it happened again. I was asking a fellow lister how his rear lens 
was doing ( he'd just replaced it) when guess what, yep, your right.  A 
few hours ago, I was taking another LRO baby for a run to show him how 
well it worked. As my driveway was blocked by a J&%p ( belonging to 
another lister, there John, I'll spread the heat ) I decided to back over 
the front lawn. While I was backing up, my fellow lister ( who shall 
remain nameless, right Cr*nfield ? )  was sitting in the back and watched 
me do a real nice number on one of my front trees ( I've never seen that 
one before). I heard his yell before impact, but alas, too late. And all 
this with the owner sitting next to me! I tell him we're just breaking it 
in for him, but I don't think he's too amused. The little spin through 
the woods went without incident ( I steered well clear of the trees ) and 
back home took a look at the damage. Broke the 4" amber lens,broke the 
red stop lens (yes, the hard to find long lens) and the reflector that 
goes inside this light, as well as a little crinkle in the galv strip. So 
I repalced the lens for him, and off he goes. He thought I was #1 though, 
waiving that finger at me as he left. Nice guy he was. Now if I can only 
remember where I put the chainsaw.....

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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From: caloccia@senie.com
Date: 23 Jan 1998 22:11:05 -0000
Subject: Re: PC Submissions

No. This list is definitely NOT the place for the discussion of
submissive Police Constables.  Maybe you could weasel it in on 
the UK list, but definitely not this one.

Yours,
	the list TERMINATOR

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:21:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Big Sky Rovers (Montana)

>Does anyone on the list have experiences (good or bad) with this outfit?
>They advertise a lot in Hemmings.
>Norm Lewis

I've never head anything good.

You pay your money, you take your chances

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:31:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION

>WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES!!!!!!
>I sit here at my computer, attempting to focus with one good eye, and one
>with a half a dozen sutres in it.  Last friday, I was cleaning up the shop
>(see what I get for that) and I disconnected a shop air hose.  The end of
>the hose shot back at me and struck me in the left eye.  I came very close
>to losing sight in that eye forever.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
>Take my advise, invest in a decent pair of shop glasses, keep them clean
>and wear them!!!!!  Its aufully hard to off-road by braille.

Zippy, relax that's why god gave you TWO eyes.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

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From: Jtwinkle88 <Jtwinkle88@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:56:46 EST
Subject: Stripping off paint

I was interested in a quicker way to take the 3 layers of paint off my Series
IIA. I am currently working on the rear tub section. I am currently using
chemicals to get this done. Has anyone used plastic media blasting to
accomplish this. I restored a steel Vespa body and it worked well. This could
be disaster for aluminum or is it??
Please don't suggest another stripper as I have tried several.
Thanks

John
Jtwinkle88@aol.com

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:05:55 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Nigel Strikes....Again

Con P. Seitl wrote:
> Well, it happened again. I was asking a fellow lister how his rear lens
> was doing ( he'd just replaced it) when guess what, yep, your right.  A
> few hours ago, I was taking another LRO baby for a run to show him how
> well it worked. As my driveway was blocked by a J&%p ( belonging to
> another lister, there John, I'll spread the heat ) I decided to back over
> the front lawn. While I was backing up, my fellow lister ( who shall
> remain nameless, right Cr*nfield ? )  was sitting in the back and watched
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
> Con Seitl
> 1973 III 88 "Pig"
  Put that Chain saw down that is is Rose's tree! Besides it's not PC to
cut down a tree ( see many other posts to see what happens if you arn't
PC).  And To all Lister please forgive me for owning a Jeep
Cherokee...You see (sob)  some times I just can't control my need for
speed ( snivel snivel whine )
     John and Muddy

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From: Rob Horstman <resrch!robh@molienergy.bc.ca>
Subject: Question  RE : Brakes
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:13:51 -0800

I have a question regarding the brakes on My '68 Series IIA.

I have now removed all of the wheels , drums, etc... from my Rover, and
have found something different on each corner !

On the rear, I have one wheel cylinder with 1 1/4" cups, and on the
passenger side, the wheel cylinder has only 1" cups (and cylinder to
match)

On the front I also have one of each size ?  

Which is the correct one for the front ? Rear ? So far, all the
suppliers local to me have given me conflicting answers. 

Also, anything special to making the brakelines myself ? I've been told
to use a Double flare tool, but other than that ?

So far, this is the extent of my buildup on my rover, one I get it
rolling (and stopping <grin>) I will undertake the body and paint.
Motor and drive train are excellent, so I suppose I will be cleaning
them up, and painting everything there as well.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Rob

________________________________________________________________

Rob Horstman, Systems Administrator
Email : robh@molienergy.bc.ca
Moli Energy (1990) Ltd.
20000 Stewart Crescent,                   (604) 466-6654 local 1488
Maple Ridge, BC, Canada
V2X  9E7
                              Visit us on the WEB  @
www.molienergy.bc.ca
________________________________________________________________

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:38:27 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Question  RE : Brakes

Rob Horstman wrote:
> I have a question regarding the brakes on My '68 Series IIA.
> I have now removed all of the wheels , drums, etc... from my Rover, and
> have found something different on each corner !
> On the rear, I have one wheel cylinder with 1 1/4" cups, and on the
> passenger side, the wheel cylinder has only 1" cups (and cylinder to

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 25 lines)]
> them up, and painting everything there as well.
> Thanks in advance for any help.

   The small cylinders should be on the back and the larger ones should
be on the front. Some PO got a little mixed up.
    John and Muddy

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:20:12 -0600
From: Steve Fullwood <ansdf@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: Ultimate towing story

Hi all,
As you may know I am a new owner. I bought my 88" from a farmer in a town
about 20 miles from where I live.  The vehicle had been sitting for 18
years and had no liscense or registration.  I contacted a buddy of mine
with a F-150 and arranged for he and I to go pick it up.  The rover had a
tow bar on it so we thought no problemo.  But I never noticed that the
towbar was intended for a tractor hookup.  i.e. no ball only tow jaw w/a
pin to hold it.  Also there were no chains for safety nor lights. We got it
all hooked up paid the man and were on our way.  We got onto the highway
and were cruising along at about 50mph when BLAM! SNAP! BANG! "What the
hell was that" I said turning around to see. Sure enough my rover which I
had just paid for and had no insurance was FREE!!  Okay, I am hysterical
screaming F%^K! F*&K! I had no Idea what to do.  It is freewheeling at
about 50mph directly behind us and as we try to slow down it is catching
us.  SHIT!  we pull over into the ditch and slow down as my rover
PASSES!!!! us. F*^K! It now has gone into the oncoming lane with no
intention of slowing down.  I can see the tow bar bouncing and taking
chunks out of the asphalt. It then is headed directly for a speedlimit
sign.  WHOOSH!! it passes the sign on the right side in the bar ditch.
Okay then it goes down in the bar ditch and comes back out. Back on the
highway. Still must be doing 40mph. Misses another sign by no more than 3
feet and hits the soft shoulder.  The tow bar still bouncing finally grabs
ahold and digs in for good.  Flips under the rover and LAUNCHES it about 4
FEET in the air.  WHAM! the rover lands in the ditch front bumper digging
into the grass rear end way up in the air with the tow bar firmly flipped
under the bumper!  It digs a TRENCH in the ditch about a foot deep and 15
feet long and finally comes to a stop.  Okay you understand I was watching
all of this from the F-150 and almost jumped out twice like I could do
anything.  So I go over to the rover and my buddy and I are wondering what
to do.  I get in it turns right over and I put it in reverse. Flipped the
towbar over lifting the front end up in the process and gave it the quick
onceover.  DAMN the windshelid cracked. PERIOD.  That was it.  I was
stunnned.  These rovers are bad ass. I love it. I did finally get it home
ALOT slower and ALOT of bailing wire. Thought ya'll might get a kick out of
my first LR experience.

Steve Fullwood

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:24:18 -0600
From: nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu
Subject: ATTN: "Huub Pennings"

"Huub Pennings"

I am in Baton Rouge, LA , U.S.A.
That's about one hour north of New Orleans.

I couldn't e-mail you...kept getting returned...said your address requires
27 "hops" and 25 is the limit.  This and the "nl" tagged to the end of
your e-mail address, leads me to believe that you're pretty far
away...like in New Zealand!

Regards,

Neil Lamont

P.S. Is "Huub" a first name and "Pennings" a last name, or.....?
-- 

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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:35:31 EST
Subject: Re:  Stripping off paint

In a message dated 1/23/98 6:03:01 PM, Jtwinkle88 wrote:

>Has anyone used plastic media blasting to
>accomplish this. I restored a steel Vespa body and it worked well. This could
>be disaster for aluminum or is it??
Can be done, but usually costs $$ or $$$. Airplanes, especially the Air Farce,
use that method. The B2 "Spirit" uses walnut shells or something organic like
that to strip off the stealth coating. Many places won't do flat aluminum
because they're afraid of warping it and are unfamiliar with LRs. Some plastic
media blasters can take paint of layer-by-layer, which is the greatest benefit
to aircraft owners who only need to update a colorscheme without damaging the
still-good primer layers, and it doesn't expose the skin to the environment.

>Please don't suggest another stripper as I have tried several.
So, tell us who was the best one?! I'm always looking for a stripper worth the
money.

>Thanks
>John
>be disaster for aluminum or is it??
Yer welcome,

Pat.

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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:27:11 EST
Subject: Re: FRIENDLY WORD OF CAUTION

In a message dated 1/23/98 5:32:06 PM, Eric Zipkin wrote:

>>WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES!!!!!!
>>I sit here at my computer, attempting to focus with one good eye, and one
>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 12 lines)]
>>Take my advise, invest in a decent pair of shop glasses, keep them clean
>>and wear them!!!!!  Its aufully hard to off-road by braille.

Then Russ added:

>Zippy, relax that's why god gave you TWO eyes.

Hmm interesting logic, but I follow it, that's why I wear a "box" or "cup", I
was only given *one* you-know-what...

pat
93  110

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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:44:25 EST
Subject: Re:  Ultimate towing story

In a message dated 1/23/98 7:13:36 PM, you wrote:

Everyone must have seen the story, and besides lro-muncher would digest the
whole thing for dinner...
[snip]
>Steve Fullwood

Steve, There's several awards given out each year, and you may be in the
running for the "Towball Award"... There is probably an accurate description
of the awards on the E.R.O.S. or OVLR faq pages. 

Congratulations on towing it home.

BTW, anyone know who else is in the run for the Lugnut, etc. awards?

pat
93 110

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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:47:15 EST
Subject: Re:  Ultimate towing story

In a message dated 1/23/98 7:13:36 PM, Steve wrote:

>As you may know I am a new owner. I bought my 88" from a farmer in a town
>about 20 miles from where I live.  The vehicle had been sitting for 18
>years and had no liscense or registration.  I contacted a buddy of mine
>with a F-150 and arranged for he and I to go pick it up.  The rover had a
>tow bar on it so we thought no problemo.

See, here's testimony that one shouldn't let a Ford touch a Land Rover, let
alone *pull* one  ;-)

pat
93  "been pulled by a Ford*" 110

*if you beg, I'll tell you.

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:55:35 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Landrover technical descriptions

I've only seen the term "breakfast" used for the radiator panel used on
this list and in OVLR publications. It seems to be local slang. I find
"radiator panel" less confusing.

Regards,
David Cockey

> Now for the real reason for the post:  How did the radiator
> shell/grill
> come to be known as the breakfast.  Was it the time honored tradition
> of
> cooking your morning 'bangers' on the rover grill over an open
> fire?????

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:54:49 EST
Subject: Penultimate Towing Story :(

Along the lines of bad news towing...
A friend of ours had loaded up their two foxhunting horses in the 2 horse and
started to pull out.  They headed up the hill from their barn and turned on to
the main road.

At that moment, the truck suddenly lurched forward.  Looking back they saw
their trailer heading back down the hill =8-0  The trailer crashed into the
barn, at probably 30-40 mph; both horses had to be put down and the trailer
was nearly totalled.  

All this from forgeting to put the cotter pin in the pin which holds the
towball to the trailer hitch...safety chains snapped.  

On another note, my wife tells me the overrun type of trailer brakes have a
greater propensity for jackknifing on hills and in emergencys.  No person
experience there.

Oh yea, Rover related question:  How far can one evaluate a gearbox on the
workbench by just opening the top and bottom covers?  

Nate

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:12:31 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

Garret Scott wrote:

> We did not use a tandem trialer, but one of those which you
> drive the rear wheels up on, leaving the vehicle facing backwards with
> the front wheels on the ground (for a rear wheel drive vehicle
> anyway).
> The combination was stable only at certian speeds.

Between the effective toe-out of the front-wheels when traveling
backwards, and the compliance in the steering system I'm surprised it
was stable at any speed.

Trailer stability is strongly dependent on proper tongue weight.
Generally 10% of trailer weight is recommended, though I've had good
luck with 5% to 7%. Also, dual axle trailers are much more stable than
single axle trailers (assuming the axles are straight). BTW, too much
tongue weight can cause problems by unloading the front axle. We
discovered this when towing a 88 on a U-Haul car hauler behind a
Suburban. We used the tie down straps at the front of trailer, which
place the 88 too far forward. On wet roads the front tires tried to lock
when braking.

In North America "over-run" brakes are commonly called surge brakes, and
are the standard brake system used on boat trailers. Electrical brakes
supposedly don't like submersion. I wouldn't trust 88 brakes with an
unbraked trailer much over 1000lbs.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:37:14 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: New Shelby Cobras

That was a different vehicle from the ones being sold as kits today.
Shelby got in trouble with the Feds, and was able to negotiate a deal
that let essentially let him sell the cars as race cars never to be
driven on the public highway. I think that his celebrity status helped
him with the deal. BTW, I don't think anything resembling proof of the
exisistance of the chassis was ever established, but even if it had the
Feds would not have cared. Another "loop hole" closed (or never opened).

Regards,
David Cockey

> I was reading something about the new old shelby cobra a couple of
> years
> ago.  I seem to remember the article said that when shelby ended
> production
> back in the 60's or whenever, he had some left over pieces which he
> psuedo
> manufactured to get whatever is required as a titleable vehcile and
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> to get
> around all the new safety requirements..

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:27:51 EST
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

In a message dated 98-01-23 20:13:13 EST, you write:

<< Trailer stability is strongly dependent on proper tongue weight.
 Generally 10% of trailer weight is recommended, though I've had good
 luck with 5% to 7%. >>

Ya' know, everyone talks about tongue weight percentages but I gotta say,
other than eyeballing how compressed the springs of the tow vehicle are, I
really don't know a good way to estimate tongue weights when loading a
trailer.  Mostly I've trusted the design of the trailer and distributed the
weight across the axles with slightly more weight in front of the axles than
behind. Anyone have a good way to measure tongue weight?

Nate

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:44:06 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: 101 kits for sale??

East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

> The story said that he ships them from his factory as a kit, and
> then a dealer puts them together with your choice of engine and trans.
> It
> said that this got them around all the crash protection stuff etc.
> That
> might be an avenue to check out, and might get you by some of the red
> tape.

I believe several British kit cars including Caterham Sevens are openly
and legally imported into the US in partially assembled form without
powertrains and several other major components. The kits imported were
not originally complete vehicles turned into kit form. There are also a
number of kit cars sold in the US. Building your own vehicle is legal.
So importing parts to build a vehicle seems to be legal as long as you
are not trying to circumvent the laws on the importation of complete
vehicles, assembled or dissasembled.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:03:53 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

Rest the hitch on bathroom scale (or put a bottle jack on a bathtoom
scale and jack up the hitch) if the tongue weight isn't likely to exceed
the range of the scale. Do this with the trailer unhitched from the tow
vehicle.

If the tongue weight is too much for the scale directly, use a timber as
a lever to reduce the load on the scale. One end of the timber on a
support and the other end on the scale. Then put the hitch in the middle
of the timber. Measure the distance from the support opposite the scale
to the hitch, and the distance between the support and scale. Then the
tongue weight is the scale reading * (distance from support to scale) /
(distance from support to hitch).

Alternately, the tongue weight ratio is equal to:
(the distance of the center of gravity of the trailer including load
from the axle) / (distance from hitch to axle)
Positive is cg ahead of axle.

Regards,
David Cockey

> Anyone have a good way to measure tongue weight?

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:11:02 EST
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

In a message dated 98-01-23 21:04:29 EST, you write:

<< If the tongue weight is too much for the scale directly, use a timber as
 a lever to reduce the load on the scale. One end of the timber on a
 support and the other end on the scale. Then put the hitch in the middle
 of the timber. Measure the distance from the support opposite the scale
 to the hitch, and the distance between the support and scale. Then the
 tongue weight is the scale reading * (distance from support to scale) /
 (distance from support to hitch). >>

Thanks David!

I'm going to try this method this weekend for both the two horse bumper pull
and the 5 horse gooseneck.  Should be interesting.

Nate

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:19:35 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, David Cockey wrote:

<< David Cockey's clever use the bathroom scale elided>>

I have seen a trailer tongue jack that included a scale.  It only read to
300 lbs or so, so you might need something else if you have a heavy
trailer.  I have no idea where you can get such a thing.  

David/Mr. Sinclair, whose exhaust manifolds get really hot!  

> > Anyone have a good way to measure tongue weight?

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From: GA D 90 <GAD90@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:16:08 EST
Subject: No Subject

To any D 90 owner out there, will P255-85R-16 BFG MT  tires  fit  a stock D90
without a problem ???

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:09:20 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88"

Mike,

Thanks for the comments.  I don't claim to be a towing expert either.
But I do understand just how this European-car-fetish-disease works for
American males.  You buy/borrow/steal/take-donation-of/ that classic,
sexy, older sports car which needs restoration, and, well, the next
thing you know, you have to get if home at all costs.  Possibly an
accident waiting to happen. 

On the subject of trailer brakes, yes, our over-run or surge braked
trailers work the same way.  Most utility trailers in the US have
over-run brakes, if they have brakes that is.  Many trailers here do
have electric brakes.  They work well, but must be adjusted to the
vehicle/trailer combination. As such, they are rarely found on utility
or rental equipment.  

Perhaps I was a little bit too militant in my response.  I agree that
most imnportant of all is the driver, and his level of knowledge,
experience and skill.  I have used either one of my 88's for towing
trailers without problems.  I regularly tow a military trailer, often
with a full ton load. But NOT for a long duration on an interstate
highway, where the speeds these days in the US average 75-80 miles and
hour, or higher. That in itself isn't terrible, but combined with the
fact that most US drivers now become insane behind the wheel, it can
make things hairy on the road. Much has changed here in the last decade. 
I'm trying to be honest, sure you can do it, but for me, and I would bet
most people, it is not worth the risk or aggravation when there is a
safer and reasonably economical alternative solution available.

A major safety problem in the US, is that in many states there is NO
kind of vehicle/equipement inspections or requirements outside of
semi-trucks. I have NEVER had any of my vehicles, trailers, etc. 
inspected in Tennesse. Kind of like old Land Rover heaven, as you can
drive with no brakes, wobbly steering, a swiss-cheese frame, broken
springs, no lights, no wipers, no fenders, and bald tires. All with
complete freedom (God Bless the USA).  Well, until you have a accident
anyway.  

I have rented more than one trailer that had NO working brakes.  Sure,
the manager/owner/mechanic/yardboy said they had good brakes, but they
didn't.  I can honestly say that in Knoxville Tennesee (I know, what do
you expect for Tennesse) that of the tandem axle trailers I have rented
over the last 2 years, that probably only 1 in 4 offered to me had good
working brakes. One several occasions I have had to make the renter get
me a different trialer, only to find out that althought the hydraulics
were there, the brakes still didn't work. If you own your own trailer,
or can source one you trust, you are far better off.  

On a more positive note, just a couple months ago I towed a large sized
skid-steer-loader, with backhoe attachment and two extra buckets several
dozen miles to my house with my Lightwieght, all after my FORD (FIX OR
REPAIR DAILY for those who don't own one, and I'm not ashamed to admit
it) F-250 (My Tool for towing) broke in route.  The load, not counting
trailer was around 12,000 lbs, and I was absolutely amazed that my
lightwieght handled it. But I never went over 35 mph, and the
skid-steer-loader was on a tandem axle, overload-braked trailer. I did
have to move the skid-loader a little to reduce tongue weight. It took
forever to get to speed and I used my TORO overdrive to split gears, but
once going, it was no problem. I did hold up traffic, and didn't dare
get near any interstate highway. But it was a Short, Slow trip during
perfect weather in brite daylite. 

I suppose my strong feelings about the whole towing ordeal are the
result of an accident that happened during my first year in college. 
Didn't involve me or LR's, but rather a large construction truck was
towing a home made trailer on the interstate highway(I-40/75).  The
trailer was empty, but going about 65 mph.  Unfortunatly the trialer
broke behind the pintle eye, and the safety chain (only 1 in use) was a
crappy, rusted-up piece of junk.  Anyway the trailer, after breaking
loose (and still going 65mph) smashed accross a 24" concrete center
divider and hit several vehicles in oncomming traffic head on (also
going 65 mph, for an impact speed of 130 mph).  The result was that
three of my classmates are now DEAD. 

Well that was many years ago. But I swear, everytime I look at a safety
chain on a trailer I think of them, and thier mothers.

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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:00:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Phone number for Superwinch needed

If anyone has a phone number or address for the below, Please let me know and
I'll pass it on to this fellow.
********
X-From: UPBNICHO@ACS.EKU.EDU (Jami Nichols)
Reply-to: UPBNICHO@ACS.EKU.EDU

Hi.  I apologize for this strange message, but I'm trying to find
someone and I hope you can help.  I live in Kentucky -- used to live in
Leicester -- and lost track of an old friend whom I just found out works
at Superwich in Tavistock, Devon.  I typed Superwich on the internet
search and Landrover stuff came up.  Your e-mail address was one I
thought might be in England.  If you know what Superwich is, or how to
get a phone number, could you pass it on to me?  I'd love to get back in
contact with this family and I've tried phoning the operator for a
number but I keep getting cut off from the USA to England.  I know this
is odd -- I'm sorry!  Have a good day, and greetings from Kentucky
(where it's wet and chilly today).  Thanks in advance if there's
anything you can do.
Jami Nichols
*************

Cheers!!
John Dillingham
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS
LROA #1095
SoLaRoS #23
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1

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From: SFmms <SFmms@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:21:32 EST
Subject: Minshaft nut tool picture

I posted an earlier message about getting a machinist to make new mainshaft
nut tools (he will sell them). I managed to get ahold of a digital camera and
get a side view of the tool in jpg format. Email me if you want a copy of it.
You will need a viewer like Paint Shop Pro to look at it I think (free
shareware download from web). I also think British Pacific may post it on
their web site.

I also have engineering design details available.

(Please note, I am not affilated either with the machine shop or BP. I am just
a Series LR owner who wanted a mainshaft nut tool for her kit & am providing
this info as a public service).

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88
'95 Disco

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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: PTO  What am I thinking

At 10:25 PM 1/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Radio Emergency Corps here and having this vehicle with the pump, AC
>generator and an HF and VHF station with a safari roof rack with a
>tripod and antennas, makes this a very good emergency vehicle.  I was

Do you have any pics on the web or anything?  This would be a totally cool
vehicle to see.  If not, I'd be happy to scan and post 'em for you.  Thanks!

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:00:28 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Subject: wiring diagram help

I have been having electrical problems with Land-Rover, which I don't
suppose anyone is too likely to find suprising.  I have sorted everything
out, except the turn signals.   I went to go look at the wiring diagrams,
but I discovered that I have left my shop manuals at my parents.  Is there
an early IIA (positive ground) wiring diagram somewhere on the 'Net?  The
flasher circuit seems insanly complex.  It is not helped by having wires
that have more or less indistinguishable wire colors.  

David/Mr. Sinclair

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From: "Steve & Leona Campbell" <campbell@zeta.org.au>
Subject: Fw: The Chinese Debacle, Bulkheads&Canopys, and other
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:13:11 +1100

> I have been enjoying this list for a few weeks now (beats the NGs) but
I'm
> a bit worried at the amount of energy people seem to spend fighting over
a
> trivial matter which is long since over and done with (I don't want to go
> into rights and wrongs), as far as I see it (and I may be wrong) someone
> posted something that he thought we might find amusing or even be able to
> help with, someone posted a parody of that letter which was dubious in
its
> 'correctness' but (I think) was intended to be humorous, someone was
> offended by it and said so (fair enough), then all of a sudden it's world
> war 3 (Land Rover style!)!!!! Perhaps I am looking at the newsgroups by
> mistake! I dunno', it just seems a shame, that's all. I am a bit of a
> comedian myself and had thoughts of writing a few funny articles and
> sharing them with this list. I'm having second thoughts now! I'd hate to
> factionalise the list even further. Perhaps we ALL need to take a step
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> As far as the canopy thing is concerned there are a couple of Galvanized
> triangular sections (called Galvanized triangu...ok ok! ) which bolt to
the
> windscreen and attach to a couple of Aluminum runner type things that
slot
> down behind the doortop to accommodate the canvas and make it rainproof
(?)
> It sounds like you didn't get those bits. They also bolt to the first
hoop.
> (hope I'm not being too tecknuckel!) 
> Towing, all I can say is I'm glad I didn't hear those horror stories
> It sounds like you didn't get those bits. They also bolt to the first
before
> I towed two and a half series ones behind a 2.4petrol Hilux 1500km across
> Australia. I made it ok but in retrospect it was probably stupid.
> Thanks once again for all those great people who sent onfo about S1s to
> mistake! I dunno', it just seems a shame, that's all. I am a bit of a
me,
> I really appreciate it! And thanks to everyone who keeps this list such
an
> enjoyable read. I made myself a little ASCII signature before I found out
> that they were offensive, sorry!
> Thanks once again for all those great people who sent onfo about S1s to
..........................................................................
>           ___                         __                                 

>       __| |_| \__               __/  S1       Steve Campbell     
>      [_/~\__/~\_};         _/   1950   campbell@zeta.org.au
>  ____(o)__(o)_______/  80 inch         ICQ# 5036527      
> mistake! I dunno', it just seems a shame, that's all. I am a bit of a
............................................................................

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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:15:43 -0800
From: John Hong <jhong@best.com>
Subject: read me?  Re: Mr. AH SO, Chinese Landy man.

Oh...I didn't have my glasses on and thought the subject was   Mr. Asshole,
Chinese Laundry man so I started loading my gun! :)

Now  now,  no unisex undergarments in a twist, etc.  When I saw the first
reply (faux Chinese) to the rather lengthy tale of woe, I was slightly
annoyed but, hey in the grand scheme of things...would we have reacted so
if the original post was by an Italian and the reply was in faux Italian?

While I have the soap box, if I could ask for ONE thing on the list, I wish
people would take more care in <SNIP>ping when replying.   Am I asking for
a little or a lot?   I guess that depends on if you are on digest mode or
not!  :)

i guess these are the points I'd like to make.

1.  To me, the really important thing is the tone/spirit in which something
is said.  In other words, was it said with ANGER? 
In Hawaii, (Hi Peter O!) the land of my youth, the races there make fun of
each other all the time, they also share food, music, culture and genes.
There would appear to be an increase in race problems recently in Hawaii
but I would say they are really economic in origin.  Hawaii is still the
most harmonious place I know of in the world.  

I'd like to relate an incident at the last ARC rally I attend.   A group of
locals were talking about 4x4 vehicles and one of them said something to
the effect of "all this rice burning garbage" just after he said it, he saw
me and a look of deep and genuine embarassment crossed his face.   I was
not offended because I can appreciate how an economic distortion can
express itself in racial terms.   If he was genuinely racist, his reaction
to me would not have been one of embarassment.   I Sincerely hope that I
will be able to attend the ARC rally this year!

2.  To me the really sad thing is this Chinese incident has rekindled ill
will between several people on this list.  Much ANGER!
As we say in the People's Republic of California,   that's a lotta BAD
karma Dude...

I was living in the People's Republic of Cambridge (Boston, usa) when this
PC/multiculturism stuff flared up.   What if my heritage is to be a
"redneck"    Accepting a culture's food and song and dance is one thing -
how about the tough stuff?  Who are you to tell me what to think?   Who are
YOU to say my way is backward or barbaric or unnatural?  What if WE WANT to
make fun of each other?   

3.  I think Mike Rooth makes a lot of sense in his post below.  We all use
squelch, just to varying degrees.  :)  I will put words in his mouth and
say that of course there are somethings you shouldn't ignore.  But, IHMO, I
would have considered this all ignorable.  I say this as an Asian person
who feels that with the fall of Communism, it seems that political
polarization is being replaced with racial/economic polarization.   

I am assuming that Frank Yap is also Asian and I don't speak for him, but
if anyone posts something to this list that I, as an Asian person finds
*truly* offensive, I'll let you know, perhaps privately, perhaps publicly.
Promise.   Now about trimming them replies...   :)

Happy New Year!   Happy 50th Rover Anniversary!

john

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:08:46 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Mr. AH SO, Chinese Landy man.

>Gentlemen,please.
>It would seem to be much less stress to the psyche,on occasions such
>as this,to adopt the English attitude.If there is something you dislike...
>Ignore it.It will go away.
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

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