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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:13:31 +0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: Re: Anyone try/have  Metrinch  tools?

Hi John & all

>about ready to change the channel when I see it is actually about tools so
>I watch it.   This tool is called the metrinch and it has both sockets and
>spanner wrenches that have lobes (cam action) that hit the sides of hex
>head instead of the corners.  The claim is made that this enables a wrench
>to grip both metric and english and rounded hex heads.

I bought a little socket set from Gedore (local manufacturer, good
price/performance ratio). They licenced the metrinch pattern. They work
well, not excellently but well.

There's more play in the socket (i.e. from loosening to fastening could be
15 degrees or so) which stands to reason, and that's a bit of a pain when
ratcheting ('cause you effectively lose that bit of ratchet, except if you
hold the socket still with your other hand, not always possible) but it
works for me.

Fits BSF and 2BA too :-)

W

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:44 -0600
From: nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu
Subject: WANTED: SII-A BULKHEAD  straight, rebuildable

I am seeking a SII-A Bulkhead to put in orignal condition then swap for
the one I have.

The Upper Section must be free of bondo and internal rusting, but the
Lower Section can have the "usual" rust problems, just so long as it is
factory straight.

If you have one, please contact me at <nlamon1@tiger.lsu.edu>.

Thanks,

NL3
-- 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:31:14 +0200 (EET)
From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@trshp.trs.ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement

Could somebody tell me how the LWB hoods fasten to the windshield
or bulkhead? I  ask this because I purchased via the phone the 
3 hoops and crossmembers for about US$20 from a guy here in Finland,
who placed an ad in the bi-weekly trader paper here. Thus I presume I
have everything I need for a 3/4 hood, but what above my head? I don't 
have a truck cab. What do you call the piece(s) I need above doors & 
windscreen to fasten a full hood? Can one roll back the part above
the front seats with a full hood? What are my options? Excuse my 
naivete, as I've never seen up close a hood on a LR in my life!
R. Wade Hughes
Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems    
NTC, Nokia Group            
Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor        82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
00045 Helsinki, Finland       70 Land Rover SIIA Petrol Hardtop "Zenith"
Tel. (358-9)-511-6332         73 Citroen 2CV (6-engine) Red     "Zéphyr"
Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
Net: hughes@trshp.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
 or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)

------------------------------

From: "Huub Pennings" <HPS@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:13:48 +0100
Subject:       Re: WANTED: SII-A BULKHEAD  straight, rebuildable

Hello NL3   WHERE ARE YOU 
Regards,

Huub Pennings

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

------------------------------

From: "Alain-Jean PARES" <InfoDyne@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:20:34 +0100

>R. Wade Hughes
>Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems
>NTC, Nokia Group
>Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor        82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
>00045 Helsinki, Finland       70 Land Rover SIIA Petrol Hardtop "Zenith"
>Tel. (358-9)-511-6332         73 Citroen 2CV (6-engine) Red     "Zéphyr"

Is your 2CV with a 6 cyl engine ?
If yes it should be faster than the one I own... and sure faster than my 88D
:-)

Alain-Jean PARES
88 D Series III
Bourron-Marlotte, FRANCE

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Subject: re: Towing with an 88"
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:05:23 -0800

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:24:51 -0600
From: "\"Mr. Mike\" Passaretti" <passaretti@sol.med.ge.com>
Subject: Towing with an 88"

OK, so a serious question.  A friend of mine tells me that if
I want to tow my TR-4 (trailered) behind anything I should
look for a longer wheelbase than his D90 has because (in his
words) his trailer often ends up "wagging the dog" and he
thinks it's a function of the wheelbase of the tow vehicle and
the distance between the hitch attachment and the trailer
wheels.  Any comments from the veterans out there with SWB
series tow vehicles?

Back in the early 1980s I used to tow a 17' wooden, outboard runabout
with my Series III-88.  I would guess that the boat and trailer weighed
about 2,000 pounds.  I towed it several hundred miles into British
Columbia on a couple of occasions, and to and from Puget Sound launching
ramps on numerous occasions.  The greatest problem I found was in
braking when going down hills.  The Land Rover's drum brakes just
weren't up to the job and faded rapidly when I brought the vehicle to a
stop at the bottom of a hill.  I don't recall any handling problems at
all.  However, my speeds were pretty low.  I doubt I ever exceeded 45
mph.  The overdrive had been removed from the vehicle during this period
for repair, and I don't believe in working an engine hard, so I never
exceeded 3,000 rpm.  At these low highway speeds, handling with a
trailer  was not a problem.  If you force the vehicle to cruise at
speeds of 55-60 mph, I wouldn't be surprised if you begin to experience
instability with a trailer, but it will depend on the balance of the
trailer, tongue weight, and so forth.  But in general, a short wheelbase
vehicle is not as stable as a long wheelbase vehicle when it comes to
towing.  I currently tow our heavy 17' fishing boat (total weight about
3,000 lbs) with either a Ford F-250 Supercab pickup or our 1991 Range
Rover.  The Range Rover does an excellent job despite its wheelbase
being considerably shorter than the pickup's.  The tracking is rock
solid, even downhill or when decelerating or braking.  If you have a
properly balanced trailer setup, an 88 or 90 Land Rover should do okay
IF you keep the speeds down, especially going downhill.  The D90 has
more powerful brakes than a Series Land Rover, but things could easily
get out of hand if you let the speed build up too high.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: reynoldsg@tfn.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:57:33 -0500
Subject: Re: No Help for Chinese LR Owner

rwilson@usaor.net wrote:

> reynoldsg@tfn.com wrote:

>>Posts like this are completely inappropriate.

> Are you the supreme authority on what is appropriate??
> I thought not.

Does "IMO" need to be appended to everything I write?  I don't think 
it should be required, as it should be understood.  As far as I'm 
concerned the response was completely inappropriate IMO.

>> Would you say what you wrote to the Chinese LR Owner in person?

> I probably would, but I'm a bit of a smart ass anyway.

Obviously.  It must win you lots of friends...

>> 1995 Beluga Black Discovery
>> Rovers North Roof Rack
>> 4 Hella Rallye 4000's
>> 1 Hella Work Light

> Perhaps you should spend more time wiring up some more lights to 
> your 1995 Beluga Black Discovery with the Rovers North Roof Rack and 
> less time worring about what other people think or say.

Perhaps some people on the list should spend more time thinking about 
what they say before they say it...  Obviously you're worrying about 
what I say because I don't agree with you - it works both ways.

> Have a nice day  :)

I shall.

It's obvious to me that there is a certain faction on this list that 
doesn't give a damn who they offend and feel that since they've been 
around the list for a while they don't need to be considerate to 
others.  Well that's fine, but you're bound to offend, piss off and 
perhaps most importantly ruin the Land Rover experience for some 
people and quite frankly that sucks.  I've had enough of this crap and 
will be unsubscribing from the LRO list.  I've been reading this list 
out of interest and it's no longer interesting to me.  The RRO list 
seems to have much less of this drivel.

As to the follow up posts that say good riddance, you're just serving 
to prove my point.

Jeff Reynolds
1995 Beluga Black Discovery
Rovers North Roof Rack
4 Hella Rallye 4000's
1 Hella Work Lamp

------------------------------

From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Subject: Re: WANTED: SII-A Bulkhead: straight, rebuildable
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:27:18 -0700

If you are anywhere near colorado,usa on March 14 1998 head to Boulder, CO

There is going to be a Land Rovere garage sale. Plenty of Bulkheads!!!

Yours'
John Wood

----------
> From: nlamon1@tiger.lsuiss.ocs.lsu.edu
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: WANTED: SII-A Bulkhead: straight, rebuildable
> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:02 AM
> I am looking for a SII-A Bulkhead to put into "as new" condition then,

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> down the road, swap for the one I have.  
> Do you have a SII-A Bulkhead?  The Upper Section must be free of bondo
and
> internal rusting, but the Lower Section can have the "usual" rust
> problems, just so long as it is factory straight.   I'm located in south
> Louisiana (U.S.A.), so the closer you are to me the better, as shipping
> costs add up fast.
> If you have one, or know of one's location, please contact me via e-mail
> <nlamon1@tiger.lsu.edu> .
> Thanks
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Neil
> -- 

------------------------------

From: "FHYap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: No Help for Chinese LR Owner (NO LR CONTENT)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:40:32 -0800

>      God, you sniveling winer, just grow a thicker skin, and a sense of
>   humor while your at it. I've got my fingers connected to my brain, and

one
>   of them is waiving at you right now. The original post was FUNNY, quit
>   being such a spineless, politically correct, cowardly wimp.

Just like the previous f*gg*t joke, what is FUNNY to you may not be so to
others.

Frank

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:44:49 +0200 (EET)
From: "R. Wade Hughes" <hughes@trshp.trs.ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement

In my message about hoods, the bulkhead I referred to was the
one behind the seats...Isn't the front one the "breakfast"? 
Getting hungry, no chinese breakfasts please..
(I see the list is getting nasty again)
R. Wade Hughes
Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems    
NTC, Nokia Group            
Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor        82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in Canada)
00045 Helsinki, Finland       70 Land Rover SIIA Petrol Hardtop "Zenith"
Tel. (358-9)-511-6332         73 Citroen 2CV (6-engine) Red     "Zéphyr"
Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
Net: hughes@trshp.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
 or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)

------------------------------

From: Bob Watson <bobw@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Ramsey Winches
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:47:20 -0800

I had a Ramsey PRO 8000 on my Jeep (for $350, I couldn't say no) and
currently have a Warn XD 9000 on the Disco. I'd say, in a nutshell, you get
what you pay for. If you plan on using the winch for the occasional (I mean
once or twice a year) pull, then the Ramsey is fine. If you are going to
give it a regular (i.e. more than monthly) workout, the Ramsey will start
having problems much sooner than the Warn. The Warn is much more durably
constructed and has better remote control accessories (Handle, connector,
etc.) The Ramsey remote is hard to use with gloves and the plug was always
intermittent on mine. The Ramsey has a plastic gear box and "shifter" while
the Warn is all metal. It's not that Ramsey doesn't make other quality
winches, it's just that their "low end" is lower than Warn's and is priced
accordingly.

One thing to note if you do buy a Ramsey, is that you should spend the extra
money and get new cables. My installation kit came with only 1 battery cable
and the ground was to be through the frame (not a good idea). You should
install the winch with at least #2 AWG cables (bigger is better, of course)
for pos and neg terminals and connect both terminals on the winch directly
to the battery. Of course after you've done all this, you might as well have
bought the Warn winch.

Happy Trails!
-- Bob W.
'95 Disco

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: LWB Hoop Arrangement
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:57:19 -0800

Mr. Hughes writes:

>In my message about hoods, the bulkhead I referred to was the
one behind the seats...Isn't the front one the "breakfast"? <

The breakfast is the bit that holds up the radiator & headlights (on
older Series II's)

The official Land Rover name for the dash is 'Dash Panel'  but it is
more commonly referred to as the 'Bulkhead'

I think that the bulkhead behind the seats is commonly referred to as
"The Bulkhead Behind the Seats"

Anybody?

Paul Quin
1961 Series II under construction - now with a new improved rust free
Limestone bulkhead.
Victoria, BC  Canada

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	R. Wade Hughes [SMTP:hughes@trshp.trs.ntc.nokia.com]
>Sent:	Thursday, January 22, 1998 9:45 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Re: LWB Hoop Arrangement

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
>(I see the list is getting nasty again)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------=

>R. Wade Hughes
>Integration Engineer, Network Management Systems   
>NTC, Nokia Group           
>Valimotie 1, 2nd Floor        82 Pontiac GP 267 V8 T-Roof    (in =
Canada)
>00045 Helsinki, Finland       70 Land Rover SIIA Petrol Hardtop =
"Zenith"
>Tel. (358-9)-511-6332         73 Citroen 2CV (6-engine) Red     =
"Z=E9phyr"
>Fax: (358-9)-511-63310
>Net: hughes@trshp.ntc.nokia.com (Unix)
> or:  wade.hughes@ntc.nokia.com (MS Mail)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------=

>Fax: (358-9)-511-63310

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:20:28 -1000
From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: Re: No Help for Chinese LR Owner

	I am glad the list was split between the effete snobs in their beluga
black, never been off road, enough lights for the super bowl, newbie rovers
and the rest of us.  This list is for those of us who need or want to give
info on keeping their series rover's functioning and improving them and
anecdotes about driving and living with the series rover.  It seems that
every time some one says something that does not fit into the tree hugging,
animal rights, socialist, race quota view of the world, we have one of
these individuals getting their jockey shorts in a wedgee and storming off.
 I don't agree with their warped view of the world but if they own a series
rover, I'll still pull and help them if I see them stopped beside the road.
 I'll still be on this list fighting the fight of keeping my series rover
on the road forever.
	As far as the Chinese rr owner was concerned.  The lesson of the response
was right on (buy one of these new rovers and you better not have to ask
how much and where to get it serviced).  The mock pigeon english was
definitely racially insensitive and offensive.  Give me insensitive and
offensive any day to some uptight, upscale yuppie trying to be PC, however.  
	Having said that, I think it would have been better just to shunt the guy
from china over to the snob list or to send him where he really needed to
go (lrna), without comment.  Feel sorry for the guy with his super complex
toy in the hinterlands of china, however he put himself there.  It wasn't
polite to kick him while he was down.  
	The purpose of this list is to disseminate information.  That also
includes opinions as well as technical information.  Personally I think it
would be better to do it in a civil manner without going out of your way to
offend, however.  I won't unsubscribe, I'll laugh at the cat fry threads,
and read the pigeon english diatribes, though not with whole hearted
approval.  We need to have the warts as well as the jewels of series
ownership pointed out, just consider whether your comments will improve
ours and/or a posters knowledge and enjoyment of their machine.
	Incidentally, you really want to be flamed, say something bad about a
series III or d90 on the RN bulletin board.  You will find some people of
extremely strong conviction who have absolutely no sense of humor.
Aloha Peter.  

>It's obvious to me that there is a certain faction on this list that 
>doesn't give a damn who they offend and feel that since they've been 
>around the list for a while they don't need to be considerate to 
>others.  Well that's fine, but you're bound to offend, piss off and 
>perhaps most importantly ruin the Land Rover experience for some 
>people and quite frankly that sucks.  I've had enough of this crap and 
>will be unsubscribing from the LRO list.  I've been reading this list 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 21 lines)]
>4 Hella Rallye 4000's
>1 Hella Work Lamp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:30:17 -1000
From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: RE: Landrover technical descriptions

>Mr. Hughes writes:
>I think that the bulkhead behind the seats is commonly referred to as
>"The Bulkhead Behind the Seats" 

Thankyou Paul.  Mr. Johnson and Mr. Webster would be proud of your
contribution to the clarity of terms pertaining to the land rover.

Now for the real reason for the post:  How did the radiator shell/grill
come to be known as the breakfast.  Was it the time honored tradition of
cooking your morning 'bangers' on the rover grill over an open fire?????
Aloha Peter

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Dr. Johnson / Hawaii Five O
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:39:45 -0800

Peter from Hawaii writes:

>Thankyou Paul.  Mr. Johnson and Mr. Webster would be proud of your
contribution to the clarity of terms pertaining to the land rover.<

Hey, that's DOCTOR Johnson!

Speaking of Hawaii, a moment of silence for the late Jack Lord.
"Book 'em Danno!"

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Faye and Peter Ogilvie [SMTP:ogilvi@hgea.org]
>Sent:	Thursday, January 22, 1998 10:30 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	RE: Landrover technical descriptions

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
>cooking your morning 'bangers' on the rover grill over an open fire?????
>Aloha Peter

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 14:07:00 EST
From: Jesse Easudes <jessee@FRC2.FRC.RI.CMU.EDU>
Subject: breakfast?

"the radiator shell/grill came to be known as the breakfast"

not sure how this came to be but following with the same logic, 

shouldn't the bulkhead be called the lunch, 

with the bulkhead behind the seat being called the dinner?

Made some kind of sense to me.

Jesse Easudes
'60 88 with truck cab and 3/4 canvas rhd, lovely (4wheel lucas)
'73 Triumph Daytona (two wheel lucas)
Pittsburgh, PA

------------------------------

Subject: Re:No Help for Chinese LR Owner
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:15:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Michael Fredette" <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

 
 Jeff opines again,
 
 Perhaps some people on the list should spend more time thinking about 
 what they say before they say it...  Obviously you're worrying about 
 what I say because I don't agree with you - it works both ways.
 
 *******
 No, it's just that most of us on this list are not about to fall for the
 whole PC line of watching every damn thing we say for fear of, God Forbid,
 OFFENDING someone. Only one other person took your side, while I got 40+
 posts to me saying "BRAVO, enough PC bullshit"
 **********
 
 It's obvious to me that there is a certain faction on this list that 
 doesn't give a damn who they offend and feel that since they've been 
 around the list for a while they don't need to be considerate to 
 others.
  
 ************
 Exactly, we have the advanced trait of a sense of humor. And are able
 to appreciate a HARMLESS, repeat HARMLESS, joke poking fun at the lousy
 grammar of a Chinese guy.
 ***********************
 
 Well that's fine, but you're bound to offend, piss off and 
 perhaps most importantly ruin the Land Rover experience for some 
 people and quite frankly that sucks.  I've had enough of this crap and 
 will be unsubscribing from the LRO list.  I've been reading this list 
 out of interest and it's no longer interesting to me.  The RRO list 
 seems to have much less of this drivel.
 As to the follow up posts that say good riddance, you're just serving 
 to prove my point.
 
 *******************
 So be it, and good riddance. You notice that only the US has fallen for
 the ridiculous PC line forbiding any poking fun at any group for any
 reason. The UK folk, and the Aussies seem to get it, it's funny. 
 *******************'
  
  Yes, the original post was funny but your response wasn't.  I don't 
  tend to be politically correct, but I do try to be considerate to
  other people.
 
 ***************
 How on earth you can make that asinine statement I'll never know. Your
 WHOLE MAIL is PC drivel. I'll say it again, GROW A THICKER SKIN and a
 SENSE OF HUMOR. People, and groups of people, are funny. There is nothing 
 in the least harmfull at having a good laugh at people and all the various
 idiosyncracies we have. And if you want to make a nice joke about me or the 
 rest of us offensive oafs on the list, be my guest, I've even got the sense
 of humor to be able to laugh at myself too, imagine that.
 ****************
  
  As to being "a spineless, cowardly wimp" I STRONGLY doubt you'd say 
  that to me in person.
 
 ****************
 Sure I would, with a SMILE on my face too. Because you're funny. Sad but funny.
 Come over to Portland for the ALL BRITISH FIELD MEET in Sept over Labor Day.
 I'll even take you for a ride in the 101FC on the jungle course. 
 In the mean time, go back to the RRO list, polish that passel of Hella's on
 your Disco, and comiserate with the rest of the cowardly, spineless, PC wimps
 over all us offensive assholes here on the Leaf Sprung list.
****************
  Warmest regards
  
  Yeah right.
  
  Jeff Reynolds
 
 ******************
 No really, Warmest regards. If you ever do grow that sense of humor, come on back
 to the list. My well developed sense of humor also prevents me from getting offended
 and carrying a grudge in addition to being able to appreciate good harmless fun.
 
 Mike
 

------------------------------

Subject: No Help for Chinese (last Time)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:20:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "Michael Fredette" <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>

 
 So does that make you right?  Of course not.  Did I imply that I'm right?  
 Again, no.  I have my opinion and happen to disagree with yours.  So be it.
*******
 Well LA DE DA
*********
 
 If the Chinese guy read it, I have a hunch he would be hurt - thus no 
 longer harmless.  Don't you at least see my point????  Oh I forgot - it 
 was funny so it's OK.

*************
 Well, I have several Chinese friends who would not be "hurt", would see
 the humor, know the spirit in which it was given, and laugh.
*************

 Well, it CAN be funny.  I didn't find the post funny, though few people 
 accuse me of not having a sense of humor.  To me something is especially 
 funny if it doesn't offend anyone - it really is possible.
  
 I saw humor in the poor grammar in the original post.  However, I didn't 
 have to resort to pointing it out to the whole world.  Those of us with a 
 real sense of humor got our laughs out of the original post and left it at 
 that.  In other words, I'm as !PC as the next guy, but I don't try to 
 offend people in the process.

 ***************
 Uh, well no, it was the second post poking fun that we were all laughing at.
 If you were offended, so what. We are still going to enjoy ourselves. Yes,
 at the expense of the Chinese guy. Though as I said, most of the CHinese
 guys I know would lagh as well.
 *****************
 
 Call it what you want, but very few people who know me would accuse me of 
 being PC, though it wouldn't be the worst thing to be accused of...
 
 I'll say it again, GROW A THICKER SKIN and a SENSE OF HUMOR.
 
 You mean adapt to YOUR sense of humor - no thanks.

 * *****
 No chowderhead, I don't give a rat's rear end what you think is funny. We all
 thought it ws funny. We don't ask you to "adapt to our sense of humor", since 
 that would be against your sanctimonious worries of offending anyone. But BY GAWD
 don't you try to tell us to conform to your narrow definition if humor either.
 If you don't like us, shut up and go away. Gee wiz.
 ******************** 

 Actually there is.  Remember Chris Farley?  He was constantly being laughed 
 at by people because of his appearance.  I doubt if that had nothing to do 
 with his drug/alcohol problems and eventual death.

 *******************
 Ok, now I'm on the ground howling. CHRIS FARLEY!!! Where/how the hell did he
 get dragged into this. But OK, since you bring him up, Chris Farley was an idiot.
 An idiot who couldn't handle success, who drank and drugged himself to death. Period.
 He was laughed at for his appearance, but HIS SENSE OF HUMOR, allowed him to turn
 that to his advantage, and make millions doing movies and standup around the
 country, ALL BASED ON MAKING FUN OF HIMSELF. He was able to laugh at himself.
 Get it. The fact that he's dead is stricktly due his inability to be an adult
 about dealing with those millions. But he's dead, so let's not shead crocodile tears
 over an idiot shall we.
 **********************

 Perhaps I should flood the LRO list with questions about cupholders and CD 
 players while I'm at it.

 **************************
 Go ahead, I'm sure you'll make lots of friends that way.
 **********************

 There appears to be lots of animosity toward coil sprung owners on the
 LRO list - I just don't understand why.

 ****************
 Because we're all insensitive, offensive assholes, remember........who don't
 give a damn how many Hella's we have. Or roof racks, CD changers, cruise controls,
 cup holders and check engine lights. It's all just poser stuff to us.
 *****************
 
 You obviosly have a problem with the signature that I attach to my LR related 
 email.  Having that signature has actually resulted in a number of people asking
 me how I went about wiring up the lights.  I've also had some questions on my 
 level of satisfaction with the Rover North rack.  I've made a few new friends 
 along the way.  That's why I include that info in my signature.  Yeah, it's 
 probably a little corney, but most people on the 2 lists include at least some 
 information on their Rovers in their signatures.  At least I don't have a 30 
 line signature complete with ASCII drawings, or include the entire previous 
 message after my post as an attachment, or include binary attachments (other 
 than those imposed by the crappy cc:Mail system I'm stuck with for now).
 
 My well developed sense of humor also prevents me from getting offended
 and carrying a grudge in addition to being able to appreciate good harmless 
 fun.
 
 Your "well developed sense of humor..." is now a contributing factor to one 
 former LRO reader being pissed and slightly less interested in eventually owning
 a Series Rover.  Yup - that's hilarious...
 
 ****************************
 Aw poor baby.
 Good Lord, how old are you 6? Just go away and polish your Hella's, don't write
 back, we're all growing weary of debating you on points you insist on showing
 your silly PC narrow minded attitudes on. Come to Portland and I'll drive the 101
 over your Disco and put you out of our misery. :^)

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:20:26
From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Mr. AH SO, Chinese Landy man.

> Ah, Mr. Chinese LR Owner, you fall for Imperialist rip off too many 
> time. Your car not real. It is impostor of highest order and 
> [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
> lemon-law; but china have no law at all so you out of luck.
><additional drivel snipped>
> Posts like this are completely inappropriate.  Would you say what you 
> wrote to the Chinese LR Owner in person?  I don't think so.  Next time 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
>  being such a spineless, politically correct, cowardly wimp.
>Warmest regards
HEAR HEAR! IF THEY CAN'T TAKE A JOKE THEN SCREW 'EM.

Jim Wolf

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:21:56 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

Ok, a serious answer:

There IS truth to what your friend says.  I once towed an Alfa Romeo
GTV-6 about 250 miles on the interstate from the *local* dealer in
Atlanta back home to Knoxville, Tennesse with my 88 air-portable.   

It was hair raising experience. Both for me, and the other drivers on
the road.  We did not use a tandem trialer, but one of those which you
drive the rear wheels up on, leaving the vehicle facing backwards with
the front wheels on the ground (for a rear wheel drive vehicle anyway). 
The combination was stable only at certian speeds.  And stopping was
VERY scary. If I hadn't been Young and Dumb, I wouldn't have done it.
And I will NEVER do that again.

Like the saying goes, you need the right tool for the job.  A short, 
underpowered, underbraked 88" Land Rover is NOT the tool for the job. 
That is what they make Trucks for, like say a 110, or a pickup, or
rolloff or a semi etc.  

You must be SAFE, and the simple decisions we make in cases like this
can, if poorly made, turn into major long-lasting problems for our
lives.  

Keep in mind that most rental companies will tell you anything, and rent
you anything to make a buck.  As the Drivers, we are the captian of the
ship, and it is ultimatly our responsibility to be safe.

On the otherhand, if your just going across town a short distance, or
slowly off-road or something, and you are careful, you should be fine. 
I've towed more vehicles than I can count, more miles that I can
possibly remember, with an 88 Land Rover off-road, at slower speeds. 

Just remember, Momentum = Mass times velocity Squared

I know I sound like an Arrogant, know it all As***le, but I have done
it, I've been there.  Somehow I got lucky and sqeeked through. Now I 
love Land Rovers, and want to help other owners if I can. 

Good Luck,

Garret Scott
scottgs@usit.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:33:18 -0500
From: Garret Scott <scottgs@usit.net>
Subject: Re: Ramsey Winches

John and Muddy,

I have had a Ramsey DC200 for 15 years now on my '88.  It's the best
winch I have ever had.  Industructible.  Far tougher than my old Warn
8274.  The DC200 is however an industrial, 10,500lb rated, Worm gear
winch with a 470:1 gear ratio, and 11" wide drum.  I've used it
underwater, upside down, everyway I can think of.  Back in the summer of
'83, I once pulled 47 vehicles out of the Mud in a single weekend with
it and my Land Rover. I have had to replace the cable 3 times, repainted
it twice, and replaced the brake pads once.  

The REP 8000 on the otherhand, well I've honestly never used one, but I
have heard from multiple sources that they are pure Junk. 

Ramsey parts are easy to get in the USA. And they will send you a
service manual for free if you need it. I have had very good experience
with the company and the dealers.

Garret Scott
scottgs@usit.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:56:54 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Winches

Chris Dillard wrote with questions about the Ramsey REP8000 winch.

I'm not positive, but I don't think that the REP series fits 'generic' winch 
mounts.  The SafariGard and I believe the ARB have 'industry standard' 
mounting holes/patterns that fit most all models of Superwinch, Warn, 
MileMarker and Ramsey *except* for the REP series.  Cheers

      *---"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                  | 
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
      |   "The oldest Rover-marque club in the Americas"   |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day) |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056    |
      |                                                    |
      *---1972 Series III 88"-----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:56 -0600
From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Subject: 101 kits for sale??

Hi All,
 In the Jan. Rover Works MAG is an ad for a UK company offering 101's in
crates which I am guessing were for Government issues.  Is it at all
possible to import these to the US even as privite Property toys??  
I would love to have a 101 just to play with & in some civil defence
areas DOT are not an issue.  Seen any HIGH loaders with plates in storm
cleanups?
 Like most people I want a 101 amblance or radio van to convert to a
camper.  Can any one import these trucks at all??   
Regards,
RobDavis_chicago

------------------------------

From: "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Ace ventura pet detective and rovers
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:33:33 +1300

Kai ora.... Watched a movie on the tele last night called "Ace ventura pet
detective" if you have not seen it, it is well worth watching. Main vehicles
are landrovers and what this guy does to it is bloody amazing. Talk about
greenlane driving. this would bring tears to any tree huggers  eyes. He does
some amazing parking in it. totaling destroying it in the end. The high
light for me was when the "Ace" gets this elephant to tip a toyota wagon on
its side, justice for all I thought. If you have not seen the movie I
recommend get it on video and enjoy

Cheers.... Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
79 series 3 lbw (in many pieces)
tomd@clear.net.nz

------------------------------

From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@norsk-data.co.uk>
Subject: RE: 101 kits for sale??
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:31:25 -0000

Rob,

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you but being in the UK I am
extremely interested in a 101 in crates. The last time I saw an add they
sold out on the first day! Can you tell me where I can find out more
info please? If the price is right I might buy one straight away.
I have heard on this list that if you don't plan on taking the vehicle
out on the public roads or property it won't be of any interest to the
inspectors and DOT in general. Look in the archive for references to
importing 110s from the UK or Europe.

Cheers,

Andy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	car4doc [SMTP:car4doc@concentric.net]
> Sent:	Friday, January 23, 1998 4:37 AM
> To:	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:	101 kits for sale??

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 22 lines)]
> Regards,
> RobDavis_chicago

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:55:24 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Towing with an 88" - My experience

>Like the saying goes, you need the right tool for the job.  A short,
>underpowered, underbraked 88" Land Rover is NOT the tool for the job.
I hear what you say,Garret,but I dont entirely agree.Over here(UK) the
88" is the tool of preference for towing.I've only ever seen one 109"
dragging a horsebox.And it didnt look too happy.I've seen a good many
110's pulling caravans,but then again,they arent what you'd call heavy.
I've pulled horses with my diesel 11A 88",and while I cant say that,
at the outset,at least,I enjoyed it,at least it didnt feel dangerous.
The horsebox was,of course,braked.We use "overrun" brakes.That is to
say,when the tug brakes,the towbar cup on the trailer is compressed
rearwards on a spring and operates mechanical brakes on all four trailer
wheels.I believe you people use a different system?
I submit that towing horses is perhaps the acid test of both tug,and driver.
(Comments,Nate?)The load isnt necessarily stable(pun NOT intended)depending
on the individual animal/animals,you cant go fast,and you must never *never*
make hurried alterations in speed or direction.You must anticipate way,way
in advance.You *can* go balls to the wall if you want,but you'll probably
never get those horses to load ever again,at best.At worst,you could arrive
to find a ton of quivering horseflesh collapsed on the trailer floor.I've
seen it happen.
I reckon if you apply these principles to a "static" load you wont go far
wrong.Nice steady speed,no sudden alterations in course or speed,a properly
loaded and maintained trailer,and a little applied common sense and you'll
be OK.
Having said all this,I dont want to put myself forward as a towing "expert".
I'm not.I know a lady who tows with her 88" S111 most weekends,and who really
*is* an expert,except she'd never admit it.She had a thoroughbred mare that
was a dreadful traveller from the word go,and yet through sheer good driving
on her part,that horse *always* loaded,and arrived relatively unstressed.
And to watch her reverse the rig into a space three inches wider than the
trailer,at speed(empty,of course) is a delight.Mind you,give her a half
mile wide space and shell be faffing about all day:-)
Just my twopennorth,worth what you paid for it....
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:54:45 +0300 (EET)
From: Semih Bingol <semih@leo.ee.hun.edu.tr>
Subject: Re:No Help for Chinese LR Owner

Go easy fellas, another person on Jeff's side, just to let you know.

Semih Bingol
74 SIII SWB 

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:08:46 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Mr. AH SO, Chinese Landy man.

 being such a spineless, politically correct, cowardly wimp.
>>Warmest regards

>HEAR HEAR! IF THEY CAN'T TAKE A JOKE THEN SCREW 'EM.
>Jim Wolf

Gentlemen,please.
It would seem to be much less stress to the psyche,on occasions such
as this,to adopt the English attitude.If there is something you dislike...
Ignore it.It will go away.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

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