Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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1 Easton Trevor [Trevor_Ea13A Little Lightweight Music
2 Easton Trevor [Trevor_Ea17ECR etc
3 "S. Vels" [dko5319@vip.c19Re: ECR stealing *my* thunder!
4 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 19Re: ECR etc
5 "Alain-Jean PARES" [Info16Re: ECR stealing *my* thunder!
6 Mark Sullivan [marks@dat7Urgent !
7 "Tackley, John" [jtackle34RE: Brake advise/support?
8 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo9Re: Urgent !
9 Roland Klein [klein@bond13Charging problems
10 "Tackley, John" [jtackle18RE: Brake advise/support?
11 Andy Phillips [AnPi@nors23RE: Urgent !
12 "Davies, Scott" [sdavies24Re: ECR etc
13 DEFENDER@ibm.net 79Re: a bunch of sierra club bs
14 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 16Re: Brake advise/support?
15 Nick Fankhauser [nickf@c41Voltage drop resistor (Tangental LR Content)
16 Chuque Henry [ChuqueH@is16New LR vs. Old Dependability
17 DEFENDER@ibm.net 21Re: Landy Music
18 kelliott@intranet.ca (Ke21RE: Brake advise/support?
19 "Tackley, John" [jtackle21RE: Brake advise/support?
20 "ERIK BARR" [019542b@rel17Re: Burn-Out Cure music
21 Paul Oxley [paul@adventu30Re: Burn-Out Cure music
22 "barnett childress" [bar37re: New LR vs. Old Dependability
23 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo9Re: Burn-Out Cure music
24 Adrian Redmond [1214072384Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability
25 Adrian Redmond [1214072338Re: The generation gap
26 ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za 12Re: Landy Music
27 "Davies, Scott" [sdavies18Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability
28 Adrian Redmond [1214072328Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability
29 bcw6@cornell.edu 30Re: Brake advise/support?
30 "K. John Wood" [jwrover@36Re: Hand Crank?
31 john cranfield [john.cra10Re: The generation gap
32 "EDWARD R. TREANOR II" [15Re: Charging problem
33 "Chris Dillard"[cdillard14NPR
34 "Spencer K. C. Norcross"22Re: Burn-Out Cure music
35 "Chris Dillard"[cdillard22a bunch of sierra club bs
36 Michael Carradine [cs@la17SAS Pink Panther Colour Code
37 Paul Nash [paul@frcs.alt26Various 110 TDi recommendations needed
38 Uncle Roger [roger@sinas17Re: Landy Music
39 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo10Re: Landy Music and Uncle Meathead
40 "Herman L. Stude" [herma10Re: Landy Music and Uncle Meathead
41 "PCG" [pcg@tennis.org> 17Of Cat Sh*t, Burnout, and Sierra Clubs
42 "Chala, Richard Justin -34Flash from past (parabolic springs), brakes, Castrol
43 debrown@srp.gov 31IIa transmission troubles...
44 "M.Gaines" [MikeGaines1@34RE: Dog music cure anf Freelander
45 "Chris Dillard"[cdillard12CB Mount RR
46 SPYDERS [SPYDERS@aol.com15What Sierra Club posting?
47 Todd [tad@selway.umt.edu14Rear Door
48 john cranfield [john.cra19Re: Dog music cure anf Freelander
49 David Kurzman [kurzman@i23Re: Landy Music
50 RykRover [RykRover@aol.c15Re: New LR vs. Old Dependability
51 RykRover [RykRover@aol.c16Re: Freelander post(OFFENSIVE)
52 gpool@pacific.net (Granv31Re: CB Mount RR
53 DHW4U [DHW4U@aol.com> 13i want a winch!!!!!!
54 john cranfield [john.cra23Re: Landy Music
55 "EDWARD R. TREANOR II" [6subscribe real time
56 Todd_Wilson@ccmail.colum31Re: i want a winch!!!!!!
57 Solihull@aol.com 24Re:Burnout
58 Winn Bearden [wbearden@a23Re: A Little Lightweight Music
59 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@ri31Re: a bunch of sierra club bs
60 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@ri75Re: a bunch of sierra club bs
61 chrisste@clark.net (Chri22Sputtering Along
62 "Charles Morris" [scimg@24Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
63 SFmms [SFmms@aol.com> 17Series LR Music
64 "Ron Beckett" [hillman@b26Re: Series burn out cure?
65 Terje Krogdahl [tekr@nex27Re: Rover music


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From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Subject: A Little Lightweight Music
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:35:00 -0500

Ignorant of the finer nuances of musical appreciation, I have noticed
that one album from Bryan Adams is adorned with a somewhat recognizable
5 stud wheel. Maybe this album has something appropriate. At least the
case could be displayed prominently. Perhaps Bryan as an LRO is lurking
out there on this list. Let us know your suggestions if you are. My
personal suggestions lean towards Brass Bands though neither Miss
Golightly or Flossie have a radio so it's somewhat academic.

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From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Subject: ECR etc
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:58:00 -0500

Ron Beckett wrote "One comment I must make is that in all the years I've
been going to
doctors, they've never given me a free consultation about a  problem
they
hadn't diagnosed correctly first time.  I've always had to pay for all
consultations.  They *do not* give warranties and they often get it
wrong.
 And the models they work on haven't changed in thousands of years."

And what about dentists. The filling they put in a tooth yesterday,
falls out today and they'll charge you tomorrow to replace it.

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From: "S. Vels" <dko5319@vip.cybercity.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:07:51 +0001
Subject: Re:  ECR stealing *my* thunder!

> >P.S., The brits did make computers -- Anyone remember the Sinclair ZX81?  Or
> >Amstrad (I've got two Amstrads (and another coming from Oz) in my collection
> >and would love a Sinclair QL!)

Had one. Sold it to my brither and got a ZX Spectrum. 48k. Was saving 
up for a QL (very expensive). I would have had Microdrives if i had 
the money. The world was divided i two in those days. ZX81/Spectrum 
vs. VIC20/C64. Commodore types really sucks, don't they?.

rgds
sv/aurens
New address:
dko5319@vip.cybercity.dk

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:24:51 EST
Subject: Re: ECR etc

In a message dated 97-12-11 05:54:01 EST, you write:

<< One comment I must make is that in all the years I've been going to
 doctors, they've never given me a free consultation about a  problem they
 hadn't diagnosed correctly first time.  I've always had to pay for all
 consultations.  They *do not* give warranties and they often get it wrong. 
  And the models they work on haven't changed in thousands of years.
  >>

Yea, all true but they don't have any say over quality control during
production. ; )

Nate

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From: "Alain-Jean PARES" <InfoDyne@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: ECR stealing *my* thunder!
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:27:47 +0100

>Had one. Sold it to my brither and got a ZX Spectrum. 48k. Was saving
>up for a QL (very expensive). I would have had Microdrives if i had
>the money. The world was divided i two in those days. ZX81/Spectrum
>vs. VIC20/C64. Commodore types really sucks, don't they?.
I still have my QL,with an external 3"1/2 drive and lot of software...
Didn't boot it for years.

Alain-Jean PARES
Fontainebleau, FRANCE
LR and Psion Series III

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From: Mark Sullivan <marks@dataflowsys.com>
Subject: Urgent !
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:35:00 -0500

Anyboy have a spare 16" rim for sale or know where to get one. I desperately need one for a spare! 

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Brake advise/support?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:33:59 -0500

Rob, 

My sugggestion is to perform a pressure bleed of the system.
Get a new, fat bicycle inner tube.  Cut it opposite the valve.  Tie one
end on a tight knot.  Stretch the other end over the open M/C opening.
Pump the tube up slightly(5-8 lbs.) with a hand pump.  Bleed left rear
first by just cracking the bleed screw slightly, with some clear tubing
into a clear container.  When air bubbles stop appearing in the tube at
the bleed screw, tighten.  Check M/C fluid level and refill if less than
1/2 full.  Repeat for right rear, then right front and last left front.
Make absolutely sure each set of drums are adjusted right/tight.  By
hand you should just, just barely be able to turn the drum w/o wheel
attached.
If that doesn't do it, then the problem is in the M/C or the pedal
adjustment.

John Tackley
Richmond, VA

>----------
>From: 	car4doc[SMTP:car4doc@concentric.net]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, December 10, 1997 10:43 PM
>To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject: 	Brake advise/support?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 31 lines)]
>Regards, 
>Rob Davis_chicago

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:44:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Urgent !

Where are you? If you're around Boston i have one or so I can lend you.

                         Alan

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From: Roland Klein <klein@bond.net>
Subject: Charging problems
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 09:00:43 PST

I had the same problem on my recently rebuilt '68 series 2A.  The 
charging light would come on and stay on.  Since I had just had the 
generator rebuilt, I took it back and they just adjusted the voltage 
regulator.  15 minutes and $10.00 later everything worked great.  I 
would'nt trust a factory setting to function properly.  Good luck.
Roland Klein
1968 Series IIA 88" Station Wagon

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Brake advise/support?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:52:12 -0500

AND also, I echo the comment about the top brake springs...
If you have them connected shoe to shoe (as almost ALL american vehicles
do) you will have no pedal on the first pump -- forever.  The springs
MUST be connected from the stud on the leading shoe to the stud on the
backing plate behind the trailing shoe. (Also make sure you don't have
the leading/trailing shoes reversed) The trailing shoe has no spring
connected at top; its just flops there!  (And has to be muscled in when
replacing the drum).
Do use some suitable grease (silicone works well and stays put) on the
bottom pivots.
>John Tackley
>Richmond, VA

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From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@norsk-data.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Urgent !
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:51:25 -0000

Yup. Got five 5.5x16 standard Land Rover steel wheels for sale if anyone
wants them. 2 have firestones on them, 2 have michelins on them and the
final one has a remould tire you would only consider as a spare (good
but low tread). I am in the UK which might put them out of some people's
reach! Anybody interested?

Andy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Mark Sullivan [SMTP:marks@dataflowsys.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:35 PM
> To:	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:	Urgent !

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Anyboy have a spare 16" rim for sale or know where to get one. I
> desperately need one for a spare! 

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From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: ECR etc
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 13:56:00 PST

And where does 'quality control' fit into a discussion of Land Rovers? :-)

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT
 ----------

In a message dated 97-12-11 05:54:01 EST, you write:

<< One comment I must make is that in all the years I've been going to
 doctors, they've never given me a free consultation about a  problem they
 hadn't diagnosed correctly first time.  I've always had to pay for all
 consultations.  They *do not* give warranties and they often get it wrong.
  And the models they work on haven't changed in thousands of years.
  >>

Yea, all true but they don't have any say over quality control during
production. ; )

Nate

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From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:03:23 -0500
Subject: Re: a bunch of sierra club bs

First, bitching does work..if you bitch to the right people.  Secondly.
I am also tired of hearing people on this list talk down to jeepers.  A
4x4 is a 4x4 and we all share a common interest.  I know of many jeep
clubs that do trail maintenance and work to keep trails open.  I have
yet to open a mag and se "LRO groups ban together to keep trails open"
(in the US anyway).  I am not downing any one on this list or any rover
owners period.  I do, however, think that it is ignorant of you to state
that jeepers are the problem.  And no, I do not think that the vehicle
you drive determines your off/on road manners.

Uncle Roger wrote:

> At 08:40 AM 12/10/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >I just want to thank whoever made the post of the Sierra club.  I
> have
> Hmmm...  Musta missed it.
> >people but I am sick and tired of all these trail mixers bitching and
> >whining about wheelers tearing up dirt roads.  How many of you

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 22 lines)]
> including in the city, of course.)
> Unfortunately, not everyone with a four-wheel-drive vehicle is an LRO.

Unfortunately, this is an ignorant statement.  You do not have to have a
Rover to be a 'good' offroader.

> Heck, most aren't even serious 4-wheelers -- my idiot brother with his
> Jeep
> Cherokee, ferinstance.  These weekend wannabes run out of football to
> watch
> so they jump in their cherokee and zip off to the nearest bit of
> unspoiled
> land and try to look like the guys in the superbowl commercials.

That is unfortunate, however, not everyone is like that and the same can
be said for some LRO's.

> This is what *does* do serious damage to undeveloped areas.
> Unfortunately,
> many of those who care about these areas don't take the time to
> differentiate between idiots who don't care about destroying
> everything so
> long as they can get their truck muddy and people like LRO's who come
> home
> with more trash than they left with.

Not all of them.   You seem to have blinders on when it comes to people
that own land rovers.

> >where this is ruining the Earth...NOT.  Personally, I think they need
> to
> >come down off of the mountain and wake up to the real ecological
> dangers
> >that we face.
> For many Sierra Clubbers (like myself) the problem is not an
> ecological one
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> get lumped in with the idiots (just as we may lump all Sierra Clubbers
> together.)

Some LRO's are idiots.  Some Jeepers are idiots.  You can not base it on
the behicle of choice.

> Of course, there are extremists in the Sierra Club (I know one guy who
> thinks anyone who owns a mountain bike is pure evil, even if they
> never ride
> it anywhere *near* dirt) but most are not, and many even drive 4WD's.
> Btw, the SC policy on off-highway vehicles corresponds (as I
> For many Sierra Clubbers (like myself) the problem is not an
> ecological one
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 46 lines)]
> San Francisco, California
> http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:00:19 EST
Subject: Re: Brake advise/support?

In a message dated 97-12-11 08:55:42 EST, you write:

<< Do use some suitable grease (silicone works well and stays put) on the
 bottom pivots. >>

Um, let's say, hypothetically of course, that one did not grease the pivots--
what sort of issue/problem would one, hypothetically of course, run into?

Just hypothetically curious,
Nate 

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:14:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Nick Fankhauser <nickf@co.wayne.in.us>
Subject: Voltage drop resistor (Tangental LR Content)

John- There's an easier way! (see the end) but just FYI here is how you
would figure it out:

The formulas you need to figure this are:

Volts= Amps times Ohms

Watts = Volts times Amps

plugging in the values, 50W/6V = 8.3333 Amps through each glowplug, so

6Volts/8.3333Amps=.72 Ohms per Glowplug

So all of the glowplugs together in parallel are:
 (I'm assumning 4 cyl) .72/4= .18 Ohms, and 50*4 = 200Watts

To divide voltage, put the same resistance in series, so you need about .18
Ohms at 200 watts. A 200 watt resistor might be hard to find- the problem
with using a resistor in this way is that your voltage dropping resistor
will be dissipating the same amount of heat as your glowplugs.

**An easier way to handle this would be to re-wire these into two pairs of
series wired plugs, thusly:

           /-----[6V Plug]-----[6V Plug]-----\
  12V-----<                                   >------Ground
           \-----[6V Plug]-----[6V Plug]-----/

This *does* have one drawback- when one plug burns out, two of them quit
working, but if you're aware of this, diagnosis is simple when it happens.

-NickF

Nick Fankhauser           |Wayne County Information Systems Department
NickF@co.wayne.in.us      |     http://www.co.wayne.in.us/wayneco
http://www.infocom.com/~nickf

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From: Chuque Henry <ChuqueH@isco.com>
Subject: New LR vs. Old Dependability
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:12:31 -0600

I'm looking at a new job where I will commute, and am thinking of
getting a D90 to replace my '70 IIA 88".  I would be putting a lot of
miles on it, and was wondering if it would take it and be as reliable as
my old Series.  I love my Rover and am willing to pay for obscene
amounts of gas to have a nice one to drive every day.  (Do they really
only get 11 mpg on the highway?)  Thanks in advance.  Also, if anyone is
interested in my Rover (blue, overdrive, safari top) I am selling for
$6,000.  Write for more details.

-Q

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From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:20:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Landy Music

NPR is national public radio and KMFDM is an abbreviation for some
german term.

john cranfield wrote:

> DEFENDER@ibm.net wrote:
> > I find that I like listening to some good Ministry, KMFDM, or the
> like
> > when off roading, NPR when going to or from work, and Blues when I
> am
> > with my girl friend.
>  I know I am seriously showing my advancing age but what is a KMFDM
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> a  NPR ?
>       John and Muddy ( who only understands Initials like LR and RR)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:24:30 -0500 (EST)
From: kelliott@intranet.ca (Keith Elliott)
Subject: RE: Brake advise/support?

>My sugggestion is to perform a pressure bleed of the system.
>Get a new, fat bicycle inner tube.  Cut it opposite the valve.  Tie one
>end on a tight knot.  Stretch the other end over the open M/C opening.
>Pump the tube up slightly(5-8 lbs.) with a hand pump.

>John Tackley
>Richmond, VA
>end on a tight knot.  Stretch the other end over the open M/C opening.

Now that is definitly an interesting concept for pressure bleeding brakes
that I will have to try soon :)

Keith

1961 Series II 88"
Ottawa

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Brake advise/support?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:38:21 -0500

Nate, 

Well, aahhh, um, let's see, if the pivots and shoes were to RUST SOLID,
well, er, I guess the fr***ing shoes wouldn't be able to pivot!  
Non-hypethetically they would be non-pivital!
Which, er, of course, is exactly what we expect from a Series Rover...
Um, right???
Would give good solid pedal, though, Eh? (Maybe this is a good
thing...;>))
Suggest you drive often; stop frequently, and avoid wading or driving in
the rain.  That should keep those pivots pivoting.
>Um, let's say, hypothetically of course, that one did not grease the pivots--
>what sort of issue/problem would one, hypothetically of course, run into?
>Just hypothetically curious,
>Nate 

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From: "ERIK BARR" <019542b@relay.acadiau.ca>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:45:00 +0400
Subject: Re: Burn-Out Cure music

I have a friend out in Alberta who wrote and recorded a song called 
"My car loves my mechanic" which is all about the love affair that 
her car is having with the local garage.  In it the car is "dropping 
parts she never had before" so she could get to the garage to have 
the mechanic "stroke her pistons and caress her valves" etc. (not to 
mention what he want's to do with her  body).  I could see if she 
would let me make a sound file of it and send it individually to 
people if you are interested.  It is quite appropriate for a series 
owner.

Erik and TARDIS

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:45:51 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: Burn-Out Cure music

ERIK BARR wrote:

> I have a friend out in Alberta who wrote and recorded a song called
> "My car loves my mechanic" which is all about the love affair that
> her car is having with the local garage.  In it the car is "dropping
> parts she never had before" so she could get to the garage to have
> the mechanic "stroke her pistons and caress her valves" etc. (not to
> mention what he want's to do with her  body).  I could see if she
> would let me make a sound file of it and send it individually to
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> owner.
> Erik and TARDIS

Hi Erik,

If you get that sound file, send it to me and I'll put it on my Landy
Doodads page so everyone that wants can pick it up there.

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin, your online African adventure specialists
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za & http://AfricanAdrenalin.com
into Africa adventures, your African adventure webzine
http://Adventures.co.za

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 9:27:53 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%eng%emchop1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re: New LR vs. Old Dependability

<Chuque Henry asks about commuting in a new 90>

I have a 95 D90 soft top. I commute 75 miles a day on the highway. Truck 
will be 3 years old in May of 98. I already have 60K miles on her with no 
problems. So far the 90 has been very reliable as a daily driver. I'm a 
stickler for keeping up with the regular maintenance.

I halved the recommended service interval times in the owners manual 
because the truck sees a lot of heavy off roading on most of the more 
serious trails here in New England.

As far as a new LR being more dependable/as dependable as a series...tough 
to say. Some have had their problems. As with purchasing anything new...ya 
takes yer chances. Reliability, probably has more to do with preventative 
maintenance over time than anything else, after you get production build 
problems worked out if any, IMHO.

I find the 90 very comfortable to drive everyday. Even traveling from 
Sturbridge MASS to ROAV rally in VA. this year was no problem (about 1300 
miles round trip).

For mileage I've been averaging about 15MPG. Not to bad when you think 
about a V8, full time 4WD, and 33" tires.
Cheers,
Barnett
 
________ Reply Separator ______
> From: "Chuque Henry" <ChuqueH@isco.com>, on 12/11/97 9:12 AM:
-------------
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
> -Q
> ^A

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:54:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Burn-Out Cure music

Love to hear it!

          aj"I AM my car's mechanic!"r

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:12:09 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <121407237875@tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability

Difficult to answer in absolute terms - but I'll try...

When I bought my 109 in 1984 it was 8 yrs old, and when I bought my 88
in 1985 it was 7 years old. For the first three to five years, i treated
them like "newish" cars, didn't really interest myself for the rover
details, ran them into the ground, and received a proportionate
unreliability - I think they cost more to run, repair and equip in those
first years, even though they were "newish" Series III's

In about 1990 I began to take rovering seriously, starting with the 88
which, being prepared for a film job in Iceland was totally overhaulled
and rebuilt, following in 1993 by a similar refit on the 109. Such a
rebuild, as many on the list will confirm, actually restores much of the
"wearable" parts to factory condition, whilst bodywork repairs, in my
humb.op. render better than factory spec results - hand painting the
chassis with several coats of rust pain, followed by several coats of
hardened marine enamel, will always give a better cover than the
quick-lick of the solihull variety. Similarly, many bodywork bits and
pieces, fittings, and wiring, when done by the enthusiast, can be
accomplished at a higher quality level - if we spend a few more quid on
each car, its only a few more quid, whereas the factory, if it can save
a few quid on each car.... get my drift?

So - in theory, a well maintained Series truck, which has been in the
owners loving care for several years, and which has been through the
obligatory major open-heart surgery, is potentially more reliable than
the six or seven year old shiny, well washed but not lovingly
maintained  Defender.

OK some of the defender parts are newer technology, but not all new
technology (in cars or any other industry) is put there for the benefit
of the owner - usually its major purpose is to simplify manufacture and
reduce costs. Generally I would opine that the Defender, whilst being an
attractive idea with its bigger more powerful motor, power steering,
and  in some cases EFI, is a better ride, but this is acheived at the
expense of the not so subtle essentiality of the LR marque -
hear-wearing, proven and efficient simplicity. The enigine is the case
in point - a 2.25 diesel (or petrol) is one of the most reliable power
units on the road today - it may be deficient emmission wise, power
wise, acceleration wise, but it is simple, and most repairs can be
accomplished by the eager owner without complicated tools.

A TDi or V8 is another matter - it takes a week (!) to remove all the
tubes, levers, hoses, pipes and flashybits, just to get to the guts, and
many special tools are necessary - tuning easily becomes outside the
province of the owner (eager or not).

The same is probably the case for comparing a VW bug or a golf, with a
BMW or a Jaguar - only here the name is the same. But they are different
beasts, and upgrading for power and comfort has its price - it is a
matter of what you want and what you are prepared to pay for.

Unless you are travelling many motorway miles a day, I don't see the
major gains of the newer engine, comuter traffic and speed regulations
usually imply that the latent power of the more modern vehicle remains,
for the most part, a latent asset which rarely is realised.

So its down to feelings, charm, and romantic ideas about rovering - I'd
stick to the simple, pop-rivet repairable Series anyday - but then my
wife would probably not refuse a defender if she discovered it outside
the door one morning.

Hope this clarifies the issue????? :)

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:15:48 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <121407237875@tele.dk>
Subject: Re: The generation gap

Heres a quickie -

on the back of the lucas generator (SIII) are three terminals coming
directly off the rectifier...

       ----------
        I  I  I
        I  I  ---
       -------

the first two are thick spade terminals, and the last is thin, and I
think the last goes to the red charge light. The other two seem to be
common? All must therefore be some version of positive (on a negative
earth truck) and the negative is the chassis.

What voltage should be measured from these terminals when the engine is
running?

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
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From: ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:30 +0000
Subject: Re: Landy Music

Why don't you all just get little diesels - then there is no need for
music, 'cause the engine makes its own music to which you can sit and
listen hours on end!

- Iwan Vosloo
( 1975 SIII Diesel )

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From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 16:05:00 PST

> hand painting the chassis with several coats of rust pain,
Yep hand painting the chassis is a 'pain':-)

>acheived at the
>expense of the not so subtle essentiality of the LR marque -
>hear-wearing, proven and efficient simplicity.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^
An unusual way of saying they're noisy:-)

Freudian slips with the spelling me thinks.

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:25:07 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <121407237875@tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Defenderbility vs. Dependability

Sorry folks, quite correctly spotted by Scott Davies..

here's the missing letters, you'll have to install them yourselves...

t    d

its been a long day at the qwerty!

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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From: bcw6@cornell.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:27:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Brake advise/support?

Strangely enough, my brakes have been doing exactly the same thing(1966 
swb). I 
have been living with it since I don't have facilities to work on it 
where I am. Here's what is happening:

I replaced everything(cylinders, adjusters, shoes, drums, lines, master) 
about 2 years ago. Brakes worked great. I never paid much attention to 
adjusting them and they worked fine. 

A few months ago, a hub seal blew out and dumped oil all over the front 
shoes and the brakes started pulling hard, so I rebuilt the front axle 
and replaced the shoes and cylinders(the bleed screws had corroded beyond 
repair)

Upon reasssembly I had the same problem mentioned before. The brakes seem 
to be badly out of adjustment, but I can crank all the way up on the 
adjusters and it does not help. I checked the obvious things such as 
loose pivots and spring setup, and all seems to be ok. The only thing I 
can think of is the master cylinder. 

Any ideas???!! Thanks!

Braman
66 IIA 88" petrol

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From: "K. John Wood" <jwrover@colo-net.com>
Subject: Re: Hand Crank?
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:26:30 -0700

Jesse,

Do yourself a favor and just order one from Paddock or Craddock. It is
cheap and easy to get stuff like that from England!

John

----------
> From: Jesse Easudes <jessee@FRC2.FRC.RI.CMU.EDU>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Hand Crank?
> Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 3:00 PM
> Maybe the cold weather has me worried about getting started

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> so
> does anyone out there have one that i could get a picture of or drawings
of?
> I would like to fabricate my own. 
> When i finally manage it, i will be more than happy to post the results.
> I really get the looks for sitting on the "right" side of the truck but i
> Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 3:00 PM
> Maybe the cold weather has me worried about getting started

imagine hand cranking it will draw a bit of attention as well.
> Thanks, 
> Jesse Easudes 
> '73 Triumph Daytona ( 2wheel Lucas Vehicle)
> '60 88 with Truck Cab& 3/4 canvas (4wheel Lucas Vehicle)
> Maybe the cold weather has me worried about getting started

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:56:16 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The generation gap

the voltage should 13.5 to 14.5 and by the way that generator is in fact
an alternator. A generator would have a regulator sitting up on the
bulkhead and is a different shape.
    John and Muddy (who doesn't have a regular regulator but has one
inside the Delco alternator)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:17:29 +0000
From: "EDWARD R. TREANOR II" <teddy@javanet.com>
Subject: Re: Charging problem

O.K., to follow up yesterday's question about my charging system, I know
(think) that the dynamo is charging because I tested the two wires
(field and dynamo wires?) with a 12 volt light tester. Is this good
enough or do I need to get my hands on a multimeter to test actual
voltage/amps, etc.? Obviously I want to see if I can solve this problem
myself before towing it to my friend at the garage. 
P.S. I am sure that the bulb on the dash and the belt are in working
order so that's eliminated. Thanks!
					-Ted Treanor
					-'62, 88" IIA

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From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:36:04 -0500
Subject: NPR

Just for the record  NPR is National Public Radio. I'm under 26 and even
know what these stand for. The other however is beyond me. Personally I
need some TOOL playing (somewhat appropriate huh?)or either some Flatt &
Scruggs B-Grass.

Chris
91 RR County
71 Ser IIA 109 SW (x-mas wish list)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:48:56 -0500
From: "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <spencern@acr.org>
Subject: Re: Burn-Out Cure music

Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:

> Love to hear it!
>          aj"I AM my car's mechanic!"r

and its carpenter ;-)

rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1969 SWB, The Wayback Machine
1965 Ex-MOD LWB, Gromit <- Just add bolts  :-0
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

Q. Why do they call it a kilt?
A. Because a lot of people got kilt when they called it a skirt.

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From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:56:04 -0500
Subject: a bunch of sierra club bs

I have to agree with Uncle Roger and it is my opinion that the "Weeken
Warrior 4x4 (ie Explorer,Tahoe, etc,etc) seem to make things bad for those
who practice envrionmantally friendly offroading.  I think that the only
reason that we get the brunt of most of the environmentalist "WACKOS" is
because we are easy targets. To unorganized in certian respects to do
anything about their attacks and we usually just complain among ourselves
in stead of take a public stance.  I am just as guilty of this as anyone. I
think that we (Rover owners) should think seriously about trying to put
together some effort to control  these IDIOTIC MORONS!! Or eventually the
only offroading that will be done by anyone is drivinh aroung in our own
yards!! ( i guess that's as much off road as some do anyway) Like my mom
always use to say "one bad apple can ruin the whole barrell."

Chris
91 RR County
71 SER IIA 109 SW (X-mas wish list)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:54:12 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Subject: SAS Pink Panther Colour Code

[ Let me send your question to the Land Rover list.  ]
[ -Michael                                           ]

I'm trying to find the colour code for the pink desert camo used by the
SAS Pink Panther rovers.  Do you know this code or where I might be able
to get it?

Thanks

Marc Franz

<mfranz@mtt.ca>

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:28:12 +0200
From: Paul Nash <paul@frcs.alt.za>
Subject: Various 110 TDi recommendations needed

I have ust bought a new 1995 110 TDi, and need some help with a few issues:

1) The owners manual talks about the oil requirements of everything expect
the R380 gearbox and 300 TDi motor.  The previous owner (as far as I know)
has been using ATF fluid in the gearbox and SAE90 in the transfer case,
plus a synthetic oil in the engine.

Any ideas about what the factory recommends?  Any personal recommendations?

2) I'm thinking of getting a turbo oil feeder (one of those devices that
keeps pumping oil into the turbo for 3 minutes after switching off).  Has
anyone got any ideas about whether they are worthwhile?

3) The camshaft belt will need replacing soon, and I'm thinking of getting
a Zeus gear conversion.  Again, has anyone looked into this, and if so, is
it worthwhile, expensive, noisy, a Good Thing, a Bad Thing?

Any and all comments and suggestions welcome, about the above and about
anything else that may take your fancy.

	paul

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:59:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <roger@sinasohn.com>
Subject: Re: Landy Music

At 02:22 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote:
>what about"skrewdriver" or "Fortress"? not wimpy or PC at all...
 
Speaking of not-necessarily-PC, how about Frank Zappa's "Montana" for those
days when SBU hits?  

"Movin' to Montana soon / Gonna be a dental floss tycoon..."

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:22:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Landy Music and Uncle Meathead

Gonna ride your Pygmy Rover down by the dental-floss trees with the
rhinestone-encrusted tweezers?

          aj"Gonna dig out those albums tonight...8*)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:34:58 -0600
From: "Herman L. Stude" <hermans@krts.com>
Subject: Re: Landy Music and Uncle Meathead

> Gonna ride your Pygmy Rover down by the dental-floss trees with the
> rhinestone-encrusted tweezers?
>           aj"Gonna dig out those albums tonight...8*)

Funny, I've been working at Joe's Garage too...

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:43:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "PCG" <pcg@tennis.org>
Subject: Of Cat Sh*t, Burnout, and Sierra Clubs

My father 
perhaps the smartest man I know is fond of saying "all things in moderation" if
applied to any of the topics discussed on this list. 

1. it may not taste good
2. it may not feel good.
3. it will not satisfy the masses

but it won't kill ya

Paul G
SIII SWB "Grendal"

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From: "Chala, Richard Justin - BUS" <CHARJ112@bus.orst.edu>
Subject: Flash from past (parabolic springs), brakes, Castrol
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:47:57 -0800

Hello all,

Quick question on parabolic springs..Has anybody on the list tried them?  My
springs are really tired, so I am considering my options.  Has anybody done
a spring over axle conversion.......maybe with springs with less arc so the
driveling angles wouldn't be too out of whack, but there wouldn't be as much
to catch stumps, etc when "out-playing."  Any ideas??  :-)

I was also wondering if anyone on the list has done, or has heard of, a disc
brake conversion? 

I am able to buy my Castrol GTLMA at Knecht's, Walmart, Fred Meyer, Kmart,
and Payless.  BTW, my clutch slave cylinder is leaking a little on my
exhaust pipe...so I guess I have been suffering from the Castrol "nerve" gas
effect...(kinda smells like burning celery)...  Now I have an Excellent
excuse for my poor performance on my final exams!!!  I knew something was
wrong....  ;-)

Take care all,

Rich Chala
charj112@bus.orst.edu
    _____  
    [__[__\==_                             
   *[_"___|__])                 
 ____(o)___(o)__________
  _______________________________________
 Series III, 88"  Land Rover 4x4

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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 11 Dec 97 12:46:44 MST
Subject: IIa transmission troubles...

From:  David Brown - Graphics Specialist ~SRP~ E-mail: debrown@srp.gov
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
Bill explains;

  > My guess of what causes the failure starts with a bad design coupled with
  > possible increasing endfloat together with excessive second gear thrust
  > against the split ring and in turn against the machined shaft collar. The
  > machined shaft collar holding the split ring and second gear, finally fails
  > and breaks away like dominoes. Possible driver problem not being able to...

HEY!!! I went through that just last year!! I even have an extra split ring
somewhere if someone wants to buy one... Maybe I should keep it as a spare??

Sounds like a class action suit to me! ;-) How many others of us have had this
happen to them? And mine was only 25 years old at the time! Dang thing should
have lasted longer than that!!

Dave (I must be bored!) Brown

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:16:23 -0500
From: "M.Gaines" <MikeGaines1@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Dog music cure anf Freelander

Hi Guys,
                Dropped into my local LR dealers today to pick up a
prop-shaft gaiter and wandered over to look at their new Freeloader. Firs=
t
impression ids that its big and build quality looks v. good indeed. Secon=
d
impression  was that simpering faggot sales creep did not like a  Series
driver (covered in crap from replacing exhaust)  actually touching it  (I=

should have got me & the dogs in to check if  they liked it). While they
didn't actually say anything, I got the impression they wanted me outa
there.  Perhaps it was when I said " Hey no oil leaks, is it empty then?"=

Think I'll go back next  week wearing a suit, askmfor a test drive and ta=
ke
it off road 8^).
On the Music front its gotta be Good Vibrations, tho I,m somewhat releive=
d
that so many opted for Ride of The Valkyries, thats really only applicabl=
e
to air portables8^)  as its also the Regimental March of the Parachute
Regiment. Now, try and march in time to that and you'll see why they go b=
y
air!
Only sounds in mine is the CB and the dogs farting.
Cheers,
MikeG
Slll Lightweight 'Wicked Wanda'
 =

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From: "Chris Dillard"<cdillard@Aholdusa.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:54:12 -0500
Subject: CB Mount RR

Where is the best place to mount a CB in a 91 RR Countyand still be able to
access necessary buttons (ie radio and hella's) Just curious as to how
other mount theirs.

Chris
91 RR County

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From: SPYDERS <SPYDERS@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:32:35 EST
Subject: What Sierra Club posting?

I've only seen some to-&-fro about this Sierra Club thing between Uncle Roger
and DEFENDER@ibm.net. Where's the original posting?

Can someone fwd it to me?

thanks,

pat
93 110

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:08:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Todd <tad@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Rear Door

Howdy-
I'm looking for a rear door to put on my presently tailgated '65 IIA SWB.
I'm looking for one in Western Montana, the Seattle area, or any
point in between.  I could be persuaded to do this through the mail as
well...  

	Todd Ondick
	(406)721-4534
	'65 IIA 88"  (Leaky is in the lead)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:17:32 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Dog music cure anf Freelander

M.Gaines wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>                 Dropped into my local LR dealers today to pick up a
> prop-shaft gaiter and wandered over to look at their new Freeloader. First
> impression ids that its big and build quality looks v. good indeed. Second
> impression  was that simpering faggot sales creep did not like a  Series
> driver (covered in crap from replacing exhaust)  actually touching it  (I
> should have got me & the dogs in to check if  they liked it). While they
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
> Only sounds in mine is the CB and the dogs farting.
> Cheer
 You can hear your dogs fart WOW! I need you to help with the sound
insulation of Muddy. But leave the dogs in your truck OK.
       John

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:22:20
From: David Kurzman <kurzman@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Landy Music

>At 02:22 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>what about"skrewdriver" or "Fortress"? not wimpy or PC at all...
>Speaking of not-necessarily-PC, how about Frank Zappa's "Montana" for those
>days when SBU hits?  
>"Movin' to Montana soon / Gonna be a dental floss tycoon..."
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>Uncle Roger                       

I don't know Fortress but I know Skrewdriver is a bit more non-PC than
Zappa. Screwdriver is (or at least used to be) a British Skinhead/Nazi
band. 
FWIW...If I had a player in my truck I'd be playing what was playing when
my truck was born. Stones (old), Yardbirds and above all The Kinks. Classy 
Britpop from it's finest year.
Dave    1966 SWB ragtop	  	God Save the Kinks!

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From: RykRover <RykRover@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:13:22 EST
Subject: Re: New LR vs. Old Dependability

I have put 13K miles on my D-90 this year with no problems. :^)
as for the mileage question, I get 16mpg at 65-70, 18mpg at 45mph. so take it
from there.

RGDS, Rick

`63 SIIa 88''
`94 D-90 soft top
`96 Disco SD

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From: RykRover <RykRover@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:27:51 EST
Subject: Re:  Freelander post(OFFENSIVE)

MIKE G , AS A GAY MULTI-ROVER OWNER I AM VERY OFFENDED AT YOUR COMMENT IN YOUR
EMAIL!!!!!!!!!   I THINK THAT WE ALL CAN DO WITHOUT ALL THIS CRAP. I`LL THANK
YOU TO KEEP YOUR F#@&ING COMMENTS TO YOURSELF!

VERY PISSED OFF, 
                              RICK VALENTINO

`63 SIIA 88''
`94 D-90  soft top
`96 Disco Sd

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:35:03 -0800 (PST)
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: CB Mount RR

Chris,

>Where is the best place to mount a CB in a 91 RR Countyand still be able to
>access necessary buttons (ie radio and hella's) Just curious as to how
>other mount theirs.

Scott Dickinson (not on this list) keeps his loose, removing it when he's
not using it.  When he wants to use it, he stuffs it under the rear seat and
turns around to use it.  Sounds awkward to me but he says it works great.
The CB he has just fits snugly there and doesn't shake loose when
off-roading.  He has the antenna permanently mounted on his rear lamp guard
and runs the cable in through a tailgate weep hole, under the rear carpet or
some such, so it's always ready for use when he wants to put in the CB.  I
think he plugs the power into the rear lighter socket.  For more details,
contact Scott at <Scott.Dickinson@Eng.Sun.COM>

Another of my friends has his antenna (firestick) mounted on the rear lamp
guard in the same manner.  I plan to do the same antenna set-up but with a
hand-held that I'll plug into the always-available antenna.  I figure the
hand-held can just tuck between me and the console or sit in the cubby box. 

I'll be interested to hear what you decide to do.

Granville "Granny" Pool
Redwood Valley, CA, USA
'92 RR County & 2 LR 88

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From: DHW4U <DHW4U@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:22:56 EST
Subject: i want a winch!!!!!!

advice welcome on winch for my 88 lla i would like advice on capstain i like
the idea
but do not have winch experiance also am willing to buy complete unit 

thanks 
dave walls
65 lla 88 (Land Chaser)  

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:53:52 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Landy Music

David Kurzman wrote:
> >At 02:22 PM 12/10/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >>what about"skrewdriver" or "Fortress"? not wimpy or PC at all...
>          [ truncated by lro-lite (was 10 lines)]
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
> >Uncle Roger
> I don't know Fortress but I know Skrewdriver is a bit more non-PC than

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Britpop from it's finest year.
> Dave    1966 SWB ragtop         God Save the Kinks!
Now here is a man with taste, this is good music  and brings back some 
good memories of my mid teens. I went to a Kinks concert in Eastbourne
about 1/2 way through  the lead singer started swearing at the audience
about how stupid they all were because they wanted to hear the bands hit
songs not some experimental stuff.Ended up the crowd left in disgust
while they played to an empty hall.
    John and Muddy

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:51:41 +0000
From: "EDWARD R. TREANOR II" <teddy@javanet.com>
Subject: subscribe real time

subscribe real time distribution

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:57:55 -0800
From: Todd_Wilson@ccmail.columbia.com (Todd Wilson)
Subject: Re: i want a winch!!!!!!

     I'll be needing to unload a winch after the first of the year. I have 
     a 9,000lb warn on the truck now. While I was shopping for a truck, the 
     widow down the street had a huge sale. In the stuff was this old 
     winch. I didn't know if I would need a winch at that point so I told 
     her that if it didn't sell I'd buy it. It has the name beaver cast in 
     the front and it looks like a starter with some reduction gears 
     between the winch motor and the spool.
     
     He had it mounted on a receiver assembly so he could install it on his 
     truck when he was salvaging logs. He'd use the winch to pull the 
     fallen trees up to the road then after sawing them to length he'd 
     split them with a home made hydraulic  log splitter!
     
     Regardless, I told her I'd buy the thing but I only need one. If 
     anyone has information on a "beaver" winch, I'd like to hear more 
     about it. 
     
     tew

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: i want a winch!!!!!!
> Author:  DHW4U <DHW4U@aol.com> at Internet

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
> dave walls
> 65 lla 88 (Land Chaser)  

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From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:17:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:Burnout

>> ....when I drive to work having people ask me what am I driving and how
great it looks.  

*And* let's not forget those admiring glances as traffic passes us.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham
Women swoon, children cheer, men think to themselves "I wish I were him";
yeah right.
near Canton, GA
KF4NAS     LROA #1095
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project, well, OK, or a P6 or another SD1
Vintage Rover Service, since 1994, where we say:
Land Rovers for Agriculture!
Land Rovers for Industry!
Land Rovers for Recreation!
Land Rovers forever!! D.V.

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:12:52 -0500
From: Winn Bearden <wbearden@americus.net>
Subject: Re: A Little Lightweight Music

Easton Trevor wrote:

> Ignorant of the finer nuances of musical appreciation, I have noticed
> that one album from Bryan Adams is adorned with a somewhat recognizable
> 5 stud wheel. Maybe this album has something appropriate. At least the
> case could be displayed prominently. Perhaps Bryan as an LRO is lurking
> out there on this list. Let us know your suggestions if you are. My
> personal suggestions lean towards Brass Bands though neither Miss
> Golightly or Flossie have a radio so it's somewhat academic.

 I read somewhere on the net that he is an LRO.

--
Winn Bearden
P.O. Box 464
Americus, GA 31709
912-924-6513 (H)
912-928-4984 (CELL)

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:45:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: a bunch of sierra club bs

At 08:38 PM 12/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>This person, who was a deep admirer of Greenpeace despite what the seal fur
>ban has done to the Inuit, berated me for the space of two beers at the bar
>for "despoiling" the wilderness.  This person insisted that the only place
 
I hope he paid for the beers at least!  8^)

But seriously, thanks for an excellent example of a big part of the problem.  

Some years ago, McDonalds (the fast food place, not the farmer) switched
from evil styrofoam containers to nice and friendly paper ones.  Ooh, the
public loved that.  How environmentally friendly!  Only problem is, now
there are lots of cardboard mcdonalds boxes in landfills, instead of
styrofoam mcdonalds boxes being recycled into new boxes.  (But McDonalds was
interesting in Public Relations, not saving the environment.)

>That all said, there is a terrible number of idiots out there with huge
>earth destroying machines who are working hard to get all of us into trouble.
 
Therein lies the other big problem -- A few people ruining it for the rest
of us.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:46:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@ricochet.net>
Subject: Re: a bunch of sierra club bs

At 09:03 AM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I am also tired of hearing people on this list talk down to jeepers.  A
>4x4 is a 4x4 and we all share a common interest.  I know of many jeep
>clubs that do trail maintenance and work to keep trails open.  I have
 
I certainly did not mean to imply that "jeepers" (either those who own Jeeps
or those who own 4x4's and use them for recreational off-highway driving)
are somehow less than LRO's.  (Well, they are, but only because LR's are
cooler than anything else.)

>owners period.  I do, however, think that it is ignorant of you to state
>that jeepers are the problem.  And no, I do not think that the vehicle
>you drive determines your off/on road manners.
 
I did not state that jeepers are the problem.  I said that there are a few
idiots out there.  I do think that the vast majority of them are non-LR
owners, simply because the vast majority of 4x4 owners are non-LR owners.

>> Unfortunately, not everyone with a four-wheel-drive vehicle is an LRO.
>Unfortunately, this is an ignorant statement.  You do not have to have a
>Rover to be a 'good' offroader.

 
Actually, this is a true statement (other than the "Unfortunately" part,
which is my opinion, and, in retrospect, may indeed not be true (what if
everyone did own a Land Rover?) but certainly wouldn't classify it as
"ignorant".)

I never said that you had to have a rover to be a good offroader.  (What I
implied is that most LRO's are good offroaders.)

>Not all of them.   You seem to have blinders on when it comes to people
>that own land rovers.
 
Not at all.  I was talking about people who lump all off-highway drivers
together, whether they're:

 - "idiots who don't care about destroying everything so 
    long as they can get their truck muddy" 

or 

 - "LRO's who come home with more trash than they left with."

(or, presumably, anyone in between.)

>Some LRO's are idiots.  Some Jeepers are idiots.  You can not base it on
>the behicle of choice.

Never did.  I did use the generic term "jeep" (non-capitalized) in
"destroyed meadows with jeep tracks in them", but I certainly did not mean
to imply that only Jeep owners (capitalized) are idiots.  Believe me, idiots
are *everywhere*!

My point was, and still is, that there are idiots out there who do a whole
lot of damage that 

1) we (responsible off-highway enthusiasts) get blamed for,
2) causes us to loose access to off-highway areas, and 
3) destroys the areas we're as interested in preserving as anyone else.

(Along with the minor points that a lot of people don't bother to look at
the facts and just automatically jump on the nearest 4x4 owner, that Land
Rovers are cooler than Jeeps (or jeeps) and that my brother is an a**hole.
Don't lend him money.)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:51:44 -0500 (EST)
From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens)
Subject: Sputtering Along

So, I'm getting close to solving some "intermittent running" problems with
the IIA. After the motor coughed and sputtered a lot I decided to look into
the fuel system. (this is after I replaced a faulty positive battery
cable). Today I yanked all the fuel lines (including the pick up tube from
the new DAP tank) and rebuilt the fuel pump. I discovered that the stock
pick-up tube was just a tad to long for the new tank, causing it not to
pick up the way it's supposed to because it's pressed against the tank
bottom. I couldn't figure out a way to remove the screen from the end to
shorten it so I just put a few more gaskets on the top, elevating the end
of the tube another 1/8th of an inch or so. Is that screen important? Can I
pull it off an hack another eight of an inch or so off the end? Anyone else
had this problem? It's still sputtering (like fuel starvation) so I'm
guessing that I need to do more.

Chris Stevens
Towson, MD
1969 Series IIa 88" SW

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From: "Charles Morris" <scimg@quiknet.com>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:07:40 -0800

Wow another Ministry fan. Me, I love listening to Minstry, Skinny Puppy,
and Sisters of Mercy when I'm on the dirt, and Live when i'm on the
pavement.  

P.S. does your Rover sputter when playing the good stuff? The commercials
always are playing the classical stuff.

Charles
'97D90#1927

>John Cranfield Wrote:
>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:47:00 -0400
>From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Landy Music
>DEFENDER@ibm.net wrote:
>> I find that I like listening to some good Ministry, KMFDM, or the like
>> when off roading, NPR when going to or from work, and Blues when I am
>> with my girl friend.

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From: SFmms <SFmms@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 01:27:44 EST
Subject: Series LR Music

Semih Bingol wrote:

>On a slightly more-humorous note, what other good music exists for we
 >half-deaf, all-crazy Series owners?

I seem to remember an old rock song "Shake, Rattle, and Roll" that might be
appropriate.  

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 "Red Rufy"
'95 Disco "EFE"

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From: "Ron Beckett" <hillman@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Series burn out cure?
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:31:36 +1100

Uncle Roger wrote:

>You'll go to bars and snub the big-breasted bimbos
>in favor of the greasy bikers, simply because they smell "right".  

That's it!  I'm getting out of the Rover clan if that's what's gonna happen
to me!

Regards,

Ron Beckett
Emu Plains, NSW, Australia

'86 Range Rover 4.6L auto (The Last Aquila)
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660 1725cc manual
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle 1725cc manual

check my home page at 
http://www.users.bigpond.com/hillman for Hillman and Rover

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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Terje Krogdahl <tekr@nextel.no>
Subject: Re: Rover music

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Charles Morris wrote:

> Wow another Ministry fan. Me, I love listening to Minstry, Skinny Puppy,
> and Sisters of Mercy when I'm on the dirt, and Live when i'm on the
> pavement.  

Actually, I find Rage Against the Machine rather appropriate at times.
Especially times such as this morning when I ran out of gas during 
rush-hour, only to discover that my secondary tank was also empty...

Anyway, some litres of petrol later I was In Transit again (listening to
Saga of course. Pun intended :-)

I've also found that Ministry can be very helpful in negotiating the
highways during rush hour ;-)

Rgds,

Terje Krogdahl
1972 SIII 88" 2.25 petrol (only vehicle, daily driver, !burned out)
Norwegian Land Rover Club
www.land.rover.no

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