Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 "Tackley, John" [jtackle12RE: Spark plugs
2 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea25Re: 3.54 diff question
3 DEFENDER@ibm.net 25Re: 3.54 diff question
4 Duncan Phillips [dunk@iv28What a wonderful tool!!
5 Nick Fankhauser [nickf@c42Re: gear ratios
6 "Spencer K. C. Norcross"21Re: Rust
7 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea32Re: 3.54 diff question
8 Faye and Peter Ogilvie [25Re: Front end questions
9 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo11Re: What a wonderful tool!!
10 jimallen@onlinecol.com (14Vanished!
11 Keith Mohlenhoff [krm@nj22Front tow hitch
12 jimallen@onlinecol.com (22New Book
13 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo22Re: Front tow hitch
14 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M12Re: Vanished!
15 "Deanna D. Sitter" [lani21Diff Gears
16 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us13Re: What a wonderful tool!!
17 "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" 25EAST COAST ROVER
18 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o19Re: EAST COAST ROVER
19 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o12Re: EAST COAST ROVER
20 DONOHUEPE@aol.com 34Rovers & Rights
21 DONOHUEPE@aol.com 11backissue request
22 "LT J Jackson" [lt_j_jac16Rivets
23 john cranfield [john.cra19Re: EAST COAST ROVER
24 Michael Slade [slade@ima18Re: EAST COAST ROVER
25 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns11Roasting!
26 NADdMD [NADdMD@aol.com> 17Re: EAST COAST ROVER
27 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa16Re: Front tow hitch
28 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa15Re: Rivets
29 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa15Air in tires (ECR)
30 David Kurzman [kurzman@i14Re: Air in tires (ECR)
31 "Chris Weinbeck, Office 68ECR -back again??
32 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea26Re: EAST COAST ROVER
33 Mike Dryfoos [mikedr@MIC13Re: Source for wiring?
34 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea20Re: EAST COAST ROVER
35 Adrian Redmond [channel636Re: ECR -back again??
36 Adrian Redmond [channel633Is the major bouncing ECR??
37 Steve Fullwood [ansdf@tt12Re: EAST COAST ROVER
38 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea104Re: ECR -back again??
39 jimallen@onlinecol.com (15ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.
40 "Christopher H. Dow" [do29Re: ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.
41 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea26Mass Apology
42 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns22Re: ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.
43 torque@pacific.net.sg (L23Re: Spark plugs
44 john taylor [jht@easynet283.54 diffs
45 JJG98580 [JJG98580@aol.c22submission for lro digest
46 rover@pinn.net (Alexande24Plugs
47 David Cockey [dcockey@ti27Re: submission for lro digest
48 Rod Knox [rknox@horizon.31Found a gem but what kind?
49 David Cockey [dcockey@ti20Re: Found a gem but what kind?
50 Granville Pool [gpool@pa20Re: Found a gem but what kind?
51 Faye and Peter Ogilvie [28Bent rims, how to straighten.
52 BarrieWyLR [BarrieWyLR@a16Re: Bent rims, how to straighten.
53 SFmms [SFmms@aol.com> 24Re: Waxoyl


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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Spark plugs
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:28:35 -0500

I run Bosch Platinums - WR8DP in my 74 SIII 2.25...

John Tackley
70 SIIA 88
74 SIII  88
>Richmond, VA

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:34:45 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: 3.54 diff question

>Did you put it 4.70's or 4.77's?  How much did you have to replace?  Did
>you have to change axles?
>William Pittman

To put 4.70's into a D90 is just a matter of changing the ring and pinion,
and setting up the third members. We do this a lot for the New England rock
crawlers around that want lower gears. Splines and axles stay the same, as
you don't change the side gears, or carrier. BTW... NA Range Rovers had 10
spline side gears until about 1994, those 3.54's will bolt right into a
SII/ SIII. Same thing with the coils we build, we put the original SII/III
4.70's into the RR axle housings.
Putting 4.70's in the D90 does screw up the speedo by quite a bit though. I
haven't come up with a cure for that one yet... Has anyone else???????

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 08:49:58 -0500
Subject: Re: 3.54 diff question

I am seriously thinking about doing this.  I have an extra stock 3.54
along with the 2 in my truck that I hope to sell and replace wit 4.7's.
How much does it affect highway drive?  Is the improvement as good as I
think it would be off road?

William PIttman

East Coast Rover Co. wrote:

> >Did you put it 4.70's or 4.77's?  How much did you have to replace?
> Did
> >you have to change axles?
> >William Pittman
> To put 4.70's into a D90 is just a matter of changing the ring and
> pinion,
> and setting up the third members. We do this a lot for the New England
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 28 lines)]
> 207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
> http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:50:31 +0000
From: Duncan Phillips <dunk@ivanhoe.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: What a wonderful tool!!

Hi all......firstly my apologies, if you're expecting to hear about the
latest double-sided left handed gromit grinder, then go no further.

I've recently added some new pics to my web-page
(http://Gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~cmtdmp/play/lrover) they're pictures of
the BOAT that goes past the back of the University (lordship lane)where I
work (I can go green-laning in my lunch-hour!!).

The original pics also featured an unsightly chain-link fence and some
grotty chalet-like building belonging to the neighbouring college, but with
the help of Corel Photopaint - poof they're gone!! - the pics now look like
they're somewhere in the middle of isolated moorland (or the serengeti - I
wish!!).

So, I'm well chuffed and doff my hat to the ingenious chaps at Corel who've
turned an artistic oaf into a self-proclaimed genius (so _that's_ how they
get those weird pics in the National Inquirer/Sunday Sport (not that I'd
EVER read either publication of course ;-) )
*******************************
Duncan Phillips
1980 SWB SIII 'Evie'
http://Gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~cmtdmp/play/lrover/
*******************************

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 09:56:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Nick Fankhauser <nickf@co.wayne.in.us>
Subject: Re: gear ratios

Sorry Matt- I was blinded by the flames and deleted your first post without
reading it...

According to my owners manual (came with a '61 series IIa) the ratios are:

Rear & Front Axle (Diff): 4.7-1

Main:   Top     direct
        Third   1.377-1
        Second  2.043-1
        First   2.996-1
        Reverse 2.547-1

Xfer Box:  High xfer    1.148-1
           Low xfer     2.888-1

Overall Ratios

                        In High Xfer:        In Low Xfer:
Top                     5.396-1              13.578-1
Third                   7.435                18.707
Second                  11.026               27.742
First                   16.171               40.688
Reverse                 13.745               34.585

Using this table you can verify that the method for determining the overall
ratio is to multiply- fer example:

Diff (4.7) times Third (1.377) times High xfer(1.148) equals about 7.43,
which is roughly their answer from the table. (The difference is due to the
different rounding algortithm used in Lucas calculators)

-NickF

Nick Fankhauser           |Wayne County Information Systems Department
NickF@co.wayne.in.us      |     http://www.co.wayne.in.us/wayneco
http://www.infocom.com/~nickf

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:15:03 -0500
From: "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <spencern@acr.org>
Subject: Re: Rust

Richard Marsden" wrote:

> Waxoyl for Christmas?  You Yanks are strange!

yes, it goes great in eggnog!

rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1969 SWB, The Wayback Machine
1965 Ex-MOD LWB, Gromit <- Just add bolts  :-0
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

Q. Why do they call it a kilt?
A. Because a lot of people got kilt when they called it a skirt.

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:36:42 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: 3.54 diff question

>I am seriously thinking about doing this.  I have an extra stock 3.54
>along with the 2 in my truck that I hope to sell and replace wit 4.7's.
>How much does it affect highway drive?  Is the improvement as good as I
>think it would be off road?
>William PIttman

William,
The highway rpms increase about 1200 rpms for the same speed. 1.2 rotations
per turn of the wheels. So gas comsumption goes up, as rpms went up, also
engine wear goes up as the rpms increased. The Off Road gain (or should I
say reduction) is great. We have a D90 with ARB lockers front and rear, and
4.70s, and it goes great with just those modifications!!!!! I have been
thinking about putting them in my RR, but I like the highway speeds. :-)
Should put them in though, as I did get a speeding ticket a few weekends
ago on my way to a Tea Pond Off Road event. It does pack on the miles on
the highway. The Defender only has about 9,000 miles on it, but reads out
at about 12,000 due to the speedo problem. Go for it if you like rock
crawling. If your Rover spends most of its time on the higway you may want
to skip it and stick with the OK stock set up.
Have a great day.

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 05:26:24 -1000
From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: Re: Front end questions

Clunking in front or back that is not accompanied by corresponding feed
back in the steering wheel can be caused by bad spring bushes and or bad
springs.  Spring bushes that have gone south may not be readily apparent at
a cursory glance.  Any 25+ year old rover probably has some bad spring
bushes if they have not replaced.  It is not rocket science to replace them
but a definite pita.
Aloha
Peter Ogilvie

At 07:23 PM 12/1/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Todd It is almost certain that your relay needs rebuilding. As for the
>clunking etc when turning  Jack up the front axle under the axle its
>self and holding the top and bottom of each wheel attempt to move the
>wheel in and out at the top. If there is any movement you probably have
>swivel bearings gone as the only other cause of this looseness is worn
>wheel bearings. you can check this by taking the wheel off and looking

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
>swivel bearings causing the very noise you describe.
>     John and Muddy

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:48:10 -0500
Subject: Re: What a wonderful tool!!

Re: Gromit grinding:

Won't Wallace be upset? 8*)

          aj"A Grand Day Out!"r

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:57:24 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Vanished!

 Suddenly, no e-mail, other than messages addressed directly to me. I have
seen nothing from the LRO or RRO lists in days. Come to think of it,
nothing from any of the stuff I subscribe to - about 5 lists in all.
Usually amounts to about 100 messages a day. This happened once before and
I had to resubscribe to everything. Any of you e-mail wunderkinder have any
idea how someone's subscriptions can be all cancelled at once, apparently
by some mysterious force?

        Jim Allen

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:11:03 -0500
From: Keith Mohlenhoff <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Subject: Front tow hitch

Hello all;

Is there a  front mounted class III tow hitch available for Series
vehicles? The kind with the square tube.

Has anyone used the winch mounts for series vehicles which RN sells?

If I were to build one myself, what gauge steel needs to be used?

Thanks
Keith R. MOhlenhoff
'63 109 5 door 2.25D
'71 88 3 door 2.25P
'88 100 5 door 3.5P

P.S.
It's nice to hear from Mike again, he has alot of information to share.

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 08:15:26 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: New Book

To All on the List-

        Just wanted to announce that my new book is now available. The
"Illustrated Classic 4x4 Buyers Guide" is published by Motorbooks
International (Classic Motorbooks) and is available though their catalog
(800-826-6600) or via book stores. Amazon.com on the 'net also offers the
book and at a substantial discount.
        The book deals with the history and collectability of 4x4s built or
sold in America from 1902 into the early '70s, with a few marques
continuing into the early 1980s. Chapter 6, "Land Rover - The British
Legend," is the spot most of you will turn to first, but you might find the
rest of it of interest as perspective on the collectable 4x4 hobby in
general. It has quite a bit of scope, but not as much as I would have
liked. I think I did justice to the old aluminum workhorse (it's the 4
largest of 10 chapters) but will welcome your critical comments.

        Jim Allen

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:20:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Front tow hitch

Winch mounts:

>From the ones I've seen, I'd start with 1/4" plate...and upscale from
there.

The winch on Mr. Churchill is mounted to a vertical plate welded to the
back of the bumper. The front of the bumper was then cut out (badly) to
install the roller fairlead.

This is a more-or-less factory mount for the older WARN vertical winches,
and the older Bellview they were derived from.

If I were designing one from scratch I think I'd anchor directly to the
front frame horns with plates and install the bumper to the plates.

               ajr/Mr. C.

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:32:52 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Vanished!

>idea how someone's subscriptions can be all cancelled at once, apparently
>by some mysterious force?
>        Jim Allen

Joe Lucas.

Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 07:46:55 -0900
From: "Deanna D. Sitter" <lani@alaska.net>
Subject: Diff  Gears

I installed some 3.8 ring and pinion's from KAM in my '73 88" 2.25
petrol Rover in anticipation of a later V-8 swap.  I was very pleasantly
surprised how well they worked with my very tired old 2.25.  I had been
using an O.D. until I changed the gears.  The O.D. was just a little too
tall for 7.50's on the highway for me.  My Rover has a series IIA suffix
C tranny with a Series IIA suffix B transfer case.  This combination of
the later model tranny (with the lower first gear ratio) and the earlier
transfer case (with the lower low range) comes very close to duplicating
the overall gear ratios of early model Rovers.  The suffix C and on
transfer cases can be converted to the lower low range with the use of a
suffix B intermediate gear and suffix A-B low gear.  While these are not
available from Rover anymore they may still be available from other
sources.  Hope this helps.

Tim Sitter
Peters Creek, Alaska

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 12:00:34 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: What a wonderful tool!!

Try Photoshop 4 if you really want to wet your pants. Works best with a 
WACOM tablet.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:44:26 +0500
From: "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" <medone@iag.net>
Subject: EAST COAST ROVER

MIKE SMITH SAYING, HE IS SORRY TO ME, JUST DOEN'T CUT IT FOR HIS CRIMES
AGAINST ME.  MIKE, YOU GOT A CHARACTER PROBLEM AND ALL THE APOLOGIZING
IN THE WORLD WON'T CHANGE THAT.
FOLKS MIGHT REMEMBER THAT  I TRANSPORTED MY 109 NADA FROM FLORIDA TO
MAINE TO HAVE ECR FIX MY BRAKES AS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY
FACTOR. AFTER BEING THERE FOR SIX MONTHS I CALLED MIKE AND ASKED IF I
COULD PICK UP MY ROVER. HE TOLD ME IN A FEW MORE WEEKS THE JOB WOULD BE
COMPLETED. I FINALLY FLEW UP TO MAINE TO PICK UP MY DEAR ROVER. MIKE
SAID IT WAS READY TO GO.......I GOT IN AND STARTED MY LONG  DRIVE TO
FLORIDA IN THE MIDDLE OF A SNOW STORM. I GOT 5 MINUTES AWAY AND FOUND MY
BRAKES LOCKED UP. TOOK THE TRUCK BACK;HE MADE SOME "MINOR" ADJUSTMENTS
AND SAID ALL WAS OK. I GOT AS FAR AS HARDFORD CT WHEN MY BRAKES TOTALLY
LOCKED AND I HAD TO BE TOED IN.
I HAD TO LEAVE MY TRUCK IN CT AND FLY HOME. I MISSED MY RIDE ON THE
AUTO-TRAIN(WHICH WAS PAID FOR) AND  MISSED 4 DAYS OF WORK. MIKE SMITH
HAS NEVER PAID ME BACK FOR ANY OF MY EXPENSES.
MIKE HOW COME EVERY TIME YOU GET ON THE NET YOU DRAW FIRE?

BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN
ORLANDO FL

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:07:30 EST
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

>I GOT 5 MINUTES AWAY AND FOUND MY
>BRAKES LOCKED UP. TOOK THE TRUCK BACK;HE MADE SOME "MINOR" ADJUSTMENTS
>AND SAID ALL WAS OK. I GOT AS FAR AS HARDFORD CT WHEN MY BRAKES TOTALLY
>LOCKED AND I HAD TO BE TOED IN.

what was the cause of the problem. If you want us to care about your 
problem, tell us all the facts. I remember when your truck was at gary 
landis' place in MD...that didn't go to well either. Curious what ever 
happened with that.
You had him put in a 2.5 petrol, right?
How is it running?

DaveB.

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:09:35 EST
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

>BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN
>ORLANDO FL

oh yes, i forgot. please stop YELLING.

dave

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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:30:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Rovers & Rights

Earlier this week Uncle Roger wrote:

"Imagine that you've ordered one of those 2.5l spin on oil filter adapters
and the UPS guy shows up with a couple of Customs dudes and FBI guys.  They
want to search your house to make sure you're not bringing in a 110" Tdi one
piece at a time.  Then, because they don't know an Ibex from an inkblot,
they decide to confiscate your '59 88" because they think you've forged your
DMV paperwork."

Uncle Roger:

You do have a flair for writing!  This scenario sounds more like the way the
British government works.  The pommies, however, do not have a corner on the
chikenshit market.  There are those within our country who would cheerfully
give up our constitutional rights to live in a nice orderly police state.

Remember the words of Louis Brandeis who said that the greatest dangers to
liberty lurk in the insidious encroachments by well meaning people with
zeal, but without understanding.

I will give up my Land-Rover only when they pry my cold dead fingers off it.

Paul Donohue
Denver
1965 Dormobile
1895 Winchester
1891 House
1851 Colt

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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 13:31:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: backissue request

get lro-digest 971126

get lro-digest 971127

get lro-digest 971128

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Date: 4 Dec 1997 13:30:52 -0400
From: "LT J Jackson" <lt_j_jackson@unixlink.uscga.edu>
Subject: Rivets

Is there any known, reasonable source of supply for the type of domed rivets
used at Solihull?  If not, what's the second best alternative?  During my
frameover my inconsiderate family needed shoes and vaccinations, so I was
forced to skimp and use Wiggle-Free Brand Rivets (available at your local True
Value) to reinstall my trim and tub supports.  Now the rest of the car looks
good but the rivets are driving me nuts (unintentional mixing of fastener
metaphors ;-). 
What say ye?

Jeff
73 S3 88 

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:46:01 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

Benjamin G. Newman,MD wrote:
> MIKE SMITH SAYING, HE IS SORRY TO ME, JUST DOEN'T CUT IT FOR HIS CRIMES
> AGAINST ME.  MIKE, YOU GOT A CHARACTER PROBLEM AND ALL THE APOLOGIZING
> IN THE WORLD WON'T CHANGE THAT.
> FOLKS MIGHT REMEMBER THAT  I TRANSPORTED MY 109 NADA FROM FLORIDA TO
> MAINE TO HAVE ECR FIX MY BRAKES AS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE SAFETY
> FACTOR. AFTER BEING THERE FOR SIX MONTHS I CALLED MIKE AND ASKED IF I
> COULD PICK UP MY ROVER. HE TOLD ME IN A FEW MORE WEEKS THE JOB WOULD BE
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 22 lines)]
> BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN
> ORLANDO FL
You shipped a vehicle from Florida to Maine to get the brakes fixed?
What are you? Nuts!
        John and Muddy (Who mostly has brakes)

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From: Michael Slade <slade@imagina.com>
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

John wrote...

>You shipped a vehicle from Florida to Maine to get the brakes fixed?
>What are you? Nuts!
>        John and Muddy (Who mostly has brakes)

and this puts me on the floor laughing my ass off.

Well said John.  Duh!

Michael Slade
'90 RR
Portland, OR

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:17:01 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Roasting!

Nothing like coming inside from a good Canadian winter, getting a drink, 
sitting back and roasting chestnuts over the FLAMES of my computer !
    ( Makes my kids seem pretty tame ) ;-)

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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From: NADdMD <NADdMD@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:37:13 EST
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

In a message dated 97-12-04 15:57:18 EST, you write:

<< You shipped a vehicle from Florida to Maine to get the brakes fixed?
 What are you? Nuts! >>

I think it has to do with the extraordinarily intricate ASB (almost stopping
brakes) system installed in most series Rovers.  I think individual
replacement modules are on sale in the RN Christmas flyer, part # 3210 specify
RHD or LHD.  Ask Lanny for details :  )

Nate

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:55:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Front tow hitch

>If I were designing one from scratch I think I'd anchor directly to the
>front frame horns with plates and install the bumper to the plates.
>               ajr/Mr. C.

When you do this, I'd love to see the measurements/drawings.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:04:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Rivets

>good but the rivets are driving me nuts (unintentional mixing of fastener
Any problem can be fixed depending on just how much $$ you want to throw at
it.  That said, if the rivets are making you that crazy, call a local
marina, Aluminium boats use dome head rivits.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:09:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Air in tires (ECR)

I was needing to have the air pressure checked in the tires on my Land
Rover and was wondering if anyone new of a decent Rover mechanic
within....Oh, 2,000 miles that I could ship my rover to.  Then I'll fly up
to pick it up and drive it home....

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh, Pa.

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 17:17:55
From: David Kurzman <kurzman@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Air in tires (ECR)

I was needing to have the air pressure checked in the tires on my Land
Rover and was wondering if anyone knew of a decent Rover mechanic
within....Oh, 2,000 miles that I could ship my rover to.  Then I'll fly up
to pick it up and drive it home....
Russ Wilson

Can't help you there, but you sound like someone who might be interested in
this shiny new 110 I've got here.
Dave ;-)

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From: "Chris Weinbeck, Office Logic, Inc." <cmw@tiac.net>
Subject: ECR -back again??
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:35:19 -0500

Hi everyone.

I'm having great fun preparing to connect up my new
(old) winch! 

I thought I could ride the ECR nonsense out, sorry but
there's just a couple of things I need to comment on.

Someone thought that Mike Smith had left over a $20 issue. 
It was over three thousand dollars -more to the point it was
%35 over the absolute maximum I was quoted.  

And he NEVER provided me with ANY paperwork whatsoever.
Not after a year of my patient waiting, and still not yet -almost
another year after he stormed off this list (having claimed my
documents were "in the mail" several times)

So here's the latest from Mr. Smith.

>Hey all, While I'm sitting right here, I guess I'll keep this going. It
>must be very boring to those of you who could care less (most of you I'd
>bet)... Considering I just typed the word Rovers North were I probably
>shouldn't have, and did explain it. oops.

Speaking of illegal imports, why haven't you sent me the paper-
work for my truck yet???  You know, the bill of sale, bill of lading,
all that stuff that your company has alternately denied existed
and promised was "in the mail"???  Remember?  The documents
you HAD to have to get my truck out of Liverpool and then through customs in NJ.

Are they still "in the mail"???

>Last year about this time I left this list, for the sole reason that
>attempts to explain my side were always dumped on as I run a
>Land Rover restoration business. 

Pardon my French but -BULLSHIT-.

You never explained anything about why you jerked me around
for over a year, overcharged me and then refused to supply
crucial paperwork.  Care to explain why the paperwork still
hasn't arrived after yet another year?

Are you unaware that the LRO digest is archived, and that 
anyone who likes can verify whatever "attempts to explain"
you claim to have made?

Here's the best you've ever offered me, and it's hollow:

>So to SL, BN, BS, and CW... I apologize for your troubles, and am sorry >we could not reach an agreement,...

An agreement???   We had an agreement.  I gave you the money
to buy a specific truck for me in England, and I agreed to pay you 
between $1200 and $2200 to take care of EVERYTHING to get
the truck to my door with all I might need to be legal.

Instead I get charged $3356.43, **pay it** and STILL
you don't fulfill your part of the "agreement". You refused
to send me my paperwork.  Now you want to slink back in
here and act put-upon -spare us.

Chris Weinbeck

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:33:49 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

>MIKE SMITH SAYING, HE IS SORRY TO ME, JUST DOEN'T CUT IT FOR HIS CRIMES
>AGAINST ME.  MIKE, YOU GOT A CHARACTER PROBLEM AND ALL THE APOLOGIZING
>IN THE WORLD WON'T CHANGE THAT.

Well Ben, at least I never resorted to name calling etc.
The part that Ben leaves out of this story is that after the problem happen
in CT. He called us as he should have. We offered to ship his Rover back to
ECR from CT, repair the problem, and as a gift install new front and rear
drive shafts parts STC574 at 425. dollars and 556450 at 325. for free. We
would also then ship the Rover to his home in Florida on a car carrier all
for FREE. To make up for any problems he had. He refused our help.
Sorry you aren't happy Ben, but I did try and make up for it with much more
than just an "oops sorry."
Have a great day all!

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Re: Source for wiring?
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 15:21:42 -0800 

I have to note that "Sparks" seems like an unfortunate name for a company
providing wiring, especially one providing wiring for British cars...

>From: Jon Nyhus <bmc@syspac.com>

>British Wiring in Illinois has wiring looms made by Sparks
>in England.  

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:37:18 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

>You shipped a vehicle from Florida to Maine to get the brakes fixed?
>What are you? Nuts!
>        John and Muddy (Who mostly has brakes)

We also did about 30 other work orders. All of which worked very well. Ben
will never admit to the fact that only one item on the long list of stuff
ECR did went wrong.
 Have a great day all.

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:34:16 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: ECR -back again??

Great to see there's still life in the ECR thread!

I am having som trouble with my temperature sensor in my SIII - I think
it needs a new on screwing in.

The question is, should I ship my truck from Denmark over the pond to
ECR, and would Mike Smith be able to fix it by Christmas (1998) ?

Can anyone hazard a guess (or guess a hazard??) at what this might cost
me in hotel bills while I wait.

Maybe I should look at it myself eh?

-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:38:26 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Is the major bouncing ECR??

What brought the ECR row back to life anyway - is the major belatedly
forwarding postings from the spring, is this a rave-from-the-grave of
one or other of the digests, or has (soory I mention it) asanna of SACO
SPAM.,Inc decided to bounce his archives.

Or is there something new in this story which i have missed?

Come on guys - if I want to see repeat runs, i can wath the television

Happy rovering!

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 18:05:06 -0600
From: Steve Fullwood <ansdf@ttacs1.ttu.edu>
Subject: Re: EAST COAST ROVER

I have no idea who this Mike Smith guy is but he is anoying.
Why doesnt he just give up. This is very anoying to us who dont give a Sh*t.
Take this off the list. I think I will filter out all ECR etc from now on.
BTW I did look at his web site.  Did you see the cost of the coil
conversion $6500.  What the hell is that. 

Steve Fullwood

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:08:34 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: ECR -back again??

Well I think I'll stick it out, and answer this stuff. Keep in mind I still
think that 4 or 5 people in 5 years is a good average. Not perfect, but who
is... not me.
>Someone thought that Mike Smith had left over a $20 issue.
>It was over three thousand dollars -more to the point it was
>%35 over the absolute maximum I was quoted.

Chris's bill for shipping his 109 into the US was more than I estimated. It
isn't an exact science, and port cost in NJ were higher due to the fact
that the Rover got sent to a different dock, so storage charges we much
more than on any other Rover I had ever shipped in.
>And he NEVER provided me with ANY paperwork whatsoever.
>Not after a year of my patient waiting, and still not yet -almost
>another year after he stormed off this list (having claimed my
>documents were "in the mail" several times)

That is true. The misunderstanding came when Chris found a Rover in the
pages of LRO, and asked us to ship it in. I agreed. I wanted to protect
him, so I said rather than wiring the money to the UK and someone who might
run off with it, and he'd never see a truck, I had him give me the money. I
wired it to a friend in the UK. Chris then arranged to have his truck
delivered to Liverpool, so the two parties could exchange money for Rover.
I did not know, and still don't know who he bought it from. I guess I would
need the LRO mag. he used. We then shipped the Rover in. Cleared it through
customs and delivered it to his home in Mass.
All was well.
Then Chris found out he was going to have trouble registering his vehcile.
I offered to help by registering the Rover in Maine for him (an easy state
to do so), then giving him the registration, and that would be that. Well
lots of time passed (my fault) and then we had to get a Maine Dealers Lic.
as ECR was growing fast. During that time I couldn't get his registration
by the means I used to, so he would have to wait. More time passed (State
of Maine's fault this time).
Then Chris got pissed off... I got pissed off and we are where we are now.
A misunderstanding that I'll accept as completely my fault.

>Are you unaware that the LRO digest is archived, and that
>anyone who likes can verify whatever "attempts to explain"
>you claim to have made?

My story stays the same, it is the truth. I don't dispute Chris and I had
problems, he was patient, I was wrong, and we had a misunderstanding that
resulted in him having problems. The big misunderstanding was the fact that
when I took the money to make sure Chris didn't get taken. He then assumed
he was buying the Rover from me. I was just handing over the money.
Therefore I did not collect a bill of sale from the guy in the UK who
dropped it off. If I knew the guy's name or number, I'd get the bill of
sale, MOT, etc. and get Chris a title or whatever he needs, but only Chris
knows the name of the guy where he bought the Rover, and I don't have the
info. So we got stuck... I don't know who he bought it from in the UK, and
I don't have a bill of sale, I thought it was being sent to him, and he
thinks he bought it from me.
My misunderstanding.
ECR dropped the import service right after this happened so it couldn't
happen again. Crimes etc. are done by people who keep doing the wrong
things. I couldn't get Chris what he wanted, and thought it may happen
again, so I stopped doing it forever.
>Here's the best you've ever offered me, and it's hollow:
>anyone who likes can verify whatever "attempts to explain"

You are wrong Chris. A month or so ago I sent you an email with an open
ticket and an apology for your problems. I asked you point blank how I
could make it up to you. You probably deleted the email because it said
ECR. I don't blame you, but I have made attempts to help you. The email was
evebn titled "offer to assist" so you wouldn't delete it.

>Instead I get charged $3356.43, **pay it** and STILL
>you don't fulfill your part of the "agreement". You refused
>to send me my paperwork.  Now you want to slink back in
>here and act put-upon -spare us.

No, I'll take your best shots, and tell my side of the story. Nobody is
perfect, least of all me, and I'm not slinking anywhere. I'm standing up,
sitting actually:-). I simpply refuse to let a few bad apples ruin my input
to this list. People make mistakes, you do and I do.
>Chris Weinbeck
>you don't fulfill your part of the "agreement". You refused
>to send me my paperwork.  Now you want to slink back in

I agree, Chris's deal with us got screwed up. each thought the other was
doing something we were not. It met at an impass. I don't know how to solve
it.

How about we make this a bit more interesting for the people on the list
(as I'm sure lots of you are bored with the flame war)

What do you, the list reader, think I should do??????? I'll let you guys be
the judge and jury. Tell me what to do (within reason) and I'll do it for
Chris. I offered a lot to Ben Newman, but he didn't want my help. I never
did that foir Chris.

Lets hear it.

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:02:23 -0800 (PST)
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.

To All Concerned-

         As one member of this merry band, I would prefer that the ECR
stuff be left for private discussions. I don't know who is right and who is
wrong in this and, frankly, I don't need to hear the issues debated ad
nauseum. Whatever problems there are should be worked out by the parties
involved. Last time, this turned into a pissing contest. Please have mercy
on the rest of us and don't let us get caught in the overspray. Again!

        Jim Allen

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:15:23 -0800
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.

Jim Allen Wrote
< To All Concerned-
<          As one member of this merry band, I would prefer that the ECR
< stuff be left for private discussions. I don't know who is right and

who is
< wrong in this and, frankly, I don't need to hear the issues debated ad
< nauseum. Whatever problems there are should be worked out by the
parties
> involved. Last time, this turned into a pissing contest. Please have mercy
< on the rest of us and don't let us get caught in the overspray. Again!
8<

I, for one, miss the good advice that Mike Smith used to post to this
list before he was publicly berated every time he raised his head.  I
can understand that maybe that was missed by some people who have not
been on the list very long, as he's kept a low profile.  

So, everyone understands that ECR has had some contraversial business
dealings (like anyone hasn't).  I'd like to suggest that we let Mike
lend his knowledge to the list like he was formerly able to do, and just
*move on*.

C

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:30:44 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Mass Apology

Dear all,
A brief apology to all of you reading this dribble. At least you don't need
soap operas!!! :-)
I would like nothing more to see this go away, and hopefully with your help
we can solve it for Chris.
Again, a deep apology to ALL.

I like the list, and like handing out Rover info, so I refuse to hang my
head and walk away this time. This will cause problems for the people wo
don't want me here, hopefully not for long, as I'm going to stay. Hopefully
they will let me just co-exist, and if they have issues with my company
they will call my customer rep. directly, and not bother the rest of you.

Best to all,

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax
http://www.eastcoastrover.com

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:38:35 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: ECR Nonsense - Keep it off the list.

Christopher H. Dow wrote:
> Jim Allen Wrote
> < To All Concerned-
> <          As one member of this merry band, I would prefer that the ECR
> < stuff be left for private discussions. I don't know who is right and
> who is
> < wrong in this and, frankly, I don't need to hear the issues debated ad

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 26 lines)]
> *move on*.
> C

  Amen. You never know when you'll find yourself at the other end of the 
winch cable!

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:55:00 +0800 (SGT)
From: torque@pacific.net.sg (Lawrence Lee)
Subject: Re: Spark plugs

>Hi all,
>Does anybody know the Bosch equivalent of Champion UN12Y's?
>Semih Bingoel
>74SWB 2.25 petrol

I don't, but I've been using Bosch W6 DTC on my 2.6l. Runs smoother, more
powerful, burns cleaner, starts easier etc than the Champions. However, U
will get a much noisier engine as a tradeoff with the Bosch, and, they cost
more.

Cheers

Lawrence Lee, Art Director
Torque Class Magazine,
The Only Motor Magazine You Have to be Seen In
MPH Trade Publications (S) Pte Ltd,
12 Tagore Drive, Singapore 787621
Tel: 453 8200  DID: 450 6005  Fax: 453 8600

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 22:58:10 -0500
From: john taylor <jht@easynet.on.ca>
Subject: 3.54 diffs

With regard to the installation of 3.54 diffs. My friend and I both
installed 3.54's in our steeds 4 years ago and have not regretted it since.
Part of this enjoyment is perhaps due to the majority of our driving being
on highways and not enough on the sloppy stuff. We have done a couple of
longish trips, one to Cancun, Belize and the Grand Canyon and the other to
Yellowstone. Having the engine reving at 3000 instead of 4000 made it
somewhat more pleasant. The first trip we both had chev 2.8 v6's and the
second we one v6 and one 2.25. The 2.25 could cruise at 60+ most of the time
but did have to change to third on the hills quite frequently around
Yellowstone and coming back through northern Ontario. 
I have also ran the v6, now a 3.1, with an overdrive as well as the 3.54's
and it worked beautifully. 60mph at 2500rpm with power to spare. I did
however remove the OD for the Yellowstone trip as I was pulling a camper up
all them thar hills and was concerned with reliability (and the OD is not mine).
If you need highway driving to get the most enjoyment out of your toy then
go with the 3.54's and accept the loss of power in some situations. We got
our diffs shipped over from Steve Parker Land Rovers in Rochdale, England
and  his advert can be found in the Land Rover International mag I think. We
got the correct splines we needed and installation was straight forward.

Yours John Taylor
1966 IIa/v6 bastard
 

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From: JJG98580 <JJG98580@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:48:16 EST
Subject: submission for lro digest

I would like to ad the following submission to the lro digest.  As a new
subscriber I have never done this before so here goes:

Name: Jack Gleason
e-mail: jjg98580@aol.com
Desperately seeking source for series ll bearings
Message:  I recently tore down my original 1960 2.25 petrol series ll engine
for a rebuild.  It had standard bearings and crank but now needs .010 regrind.
I have now discovered that the bearing shells for my crank are no longer
available.  It seems the 1958-early 61 series ll had smaller journals and
different mounting tabs on the bearings.  I need a set of rods and mains in
.010 or if I must do it to fit bearings available I will cut to .020
undersize.  If anyone has a set or knows where I can still get them at a
decent price (worldwide), let me know.  I cannot proceed without them.  I am
nlw considering the purchase of a 2A shortblock core as an alternative but
would prefer to rebuild my stock engine.  Thanks, Jack in Seattle

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:02:58 -0500 (EST)
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Plugs

Semih Bingol wrote:

>Does anyone know the Bosch equivalent of Champion UN12Y's 

Bosch "Silver" WR7DS
Bosch "Platinum" WR8DP

Having run all of the above, I can find no advantage to the Boschs.  Unless 
it's an availability issue, stick with the Champions.  Cheers

      *---"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                  | 
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
      |   "The oldest Rover-marque club in the Americas"   |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day) |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056    |
      |                                                    |
      *---1972 Series III 88"-----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:34:09 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: submission for lro digest

> Desperately seeking source for series ll bearings
> Message:  I recently tore down my original 1960 2.25 petrol series ll
> engine
> for a rebuild.  It had standard bearings and crank but now needs .010
> regrind.
> I have now discovered that the bearing shells for my crank are no
> longer
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> and
> different mounting tabs on the bearings.

I don't know of any suppliers, but suspect one of the small LR
specialists in the UK may have some. The last prices I saw were close to
100# for the mains.

Does anyone know of a source who can provide custom bearing shells at a
less than astronomical price. I know there are sources in the Detroit
area who provide bearings for prototype engines, but I don't want to
even think about what they would charge.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 20:50:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Knox <rknox@horizon.bc.ca>
Subject: Found a gem but what kind?

Could someone please point me to a site with pictures of Land Rover front
ends. I found a semi abandoned beauty, one of those rare finds in that it's
been sitting for years and looks horrible but with only surface rust. I
didn't want to inspect it too closely or show too much interest without
knowing anything about it but it looks like it's never been off road! Has a
plastic grill that is only broken in one place and the tinny looking bumper
only bent on one corner. I've wanted one for years but could never afford
one. I know the legend and am willing and able to maintain it. I bought a
'67 TR4A in 1975 at age 17 and still have it and still drive it every
summer. I live on Vancouver island and there is lots of bush around here
that I want to start taking my youngsters to see. Or just get out of the
city by myself. Can't seen to find any info using a search engine. All I
seem to find are People trying to sell new ones.

Please help,

=============================================================
Rod Knox
Accumap Services Ltd.
1234 Union Road
Victoria, B.C., Canada
V8P 2J6
Tel: (250) 380-9600
Fax: (250) 380-9577
Internet rknox@horizon.bc.ca
==============================================================

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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 00:03:15 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Found a gem but what kind?

Rod Knox wrote:

> Could someone please point me to a site with pictures of Land Rover
> front
> ends. ...  Has a
> plastic grill that is only broken in one place and the tinny looking
> bumper
> only bent on one corner.

Sounds like a Series III. Is the grille panel set back from the front of
the fenders? Try the http://www.off-road.com/LR_FAQ/ for answers to lots
of questions you will have.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:11:02 -0800
From: Granville Pool <gpool@pacific.net>
Subject: Re: Found a gem but what kind?

Rod,

>Could someone please point me to a site with pictures of Land Rover front
>ends.  [snip]

Someone already suggested looking at the LR FAQ and that may have a pointer
to Ben Smith's Indent-a-Rover program.  If it doesn't, send an e-mail to
Benjamin Smith <bens@psa.pencom.com> and ask for the URL.  I thought I had
it but can't find it.

Hope this helps!

Granville "Granny" Pool
Redwood Valley, CA, USA
'92 RR, '60 & '73 LR 88

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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:16:05 -1000
From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Subject: Bent rims, how to straighten.

Aloha:
	Got yet another nail in my tire so took it down to yet another tire store
to get the tube repaired.  Big problems, the tube that only had a leak from
the nail suddenly has a hole on the wheel side and is worthless.  The tire
shop claims no responsibility for the second hole which was undoubtedly
caused by their tire machine.  I need the tire so I pay the outrageous
price of $27 for a new tube and all is well, I thought.  Not so, the wheel
is bent and can't be balanced.  
	There is no external damage to the wheel, it was balanced and gave no
indication of being bent before I took it in, yet it now wobbles.  Okay, I
have 4 other 16" rims sitting around, all with no sign of damage, so figure
one has got to be straight.  Not so!!!!! 
	Has anyone had problems with crooked wheels and is their a secret way to
balance them.  
	Is their a way to straighten bent wheels.  The rims on all these wheels
are straight and look good with no sign of abuse whatsoever.  Apparently
the centers are bent or were assembled improperly.  
	Funny thing is that I have run all these wheels on my rover at one time or
another and there was no problem.  Any one have a clue???  I am going to
take the rims to another shop and get a second opinion.
	TIA for any help on solving this mystery.
Mahalo
Peter

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From: BarrieWyLR <BarrieWyLR@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:31:51 EST
Subject: Re: Bent rims, how to straighten.

In a message dated 97-12-05 02:41:25 EST, you write:

 >>
Are you sure that the rims are bent, and that the tire is not out of round?
That could be the real problem

Be Happy
Barrie
60SII88SW
Rugbeater

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From: SFmms <SFmms@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:53:32 EST
Subject: Re: Waxoyl

Richard Marsden wrote:

>Waxoyl for Christmas?  You Yanks are strange!

No we just like preventatives, like cod liver oil.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But seriously, I had been wondering abou where to
get it too, as I have a '74 SIII 88 with a (to the best of my knowledge)
fairly rust free frame.  Does anyone know where one could get it applied in
the Southern California area ? I've heard that shops in Canada that apply such
stuff, discretely drill into places such as bulkheads to spray it in, then cap
the holes. Sounds logical to enable future applications and have heard it is
very professionally done. 

Thanks,

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 "Red Rufy"

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