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msgSender linesSubject
1 eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heit21Mid Atlantic Rally
2 car4doc [car4doc@concent13Rochesters rejetting!!
3 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o16Re: Springs
4 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o17WTB 2.25 Manifold
5 john cranfield [john.cra16Re: few questions
6 ecrover@midcoast.com (Ea20Events
7 "Tackley, John" [jtackle28RE: Rochesters rejetting!!
8 David Russell [David_R@m20[not specified]
9 kelliott@intranet.ca (Ke18Re: Engine heater Question
10 Mark Sullivan [marks@dat30RE: Events
11 "Tackley, John" [jtackle21RE: Engine heater Question
12 Keith Mohlenhoff [krm@nj48Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray
13 twakeman@scruznet.com (T26Re: Rochesters rejetting!!
14 twakeman@scruznet.com (T29Re: Engine heater Question
15 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa28Re: new exhaust
16 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml27RE: Wiring Harness
17 scooper@scooper.seanet.c16no LR
18 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml27Guns accross the boarder
19 "Adams, Bill" [badams@us18Re: Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray
20 ARTuro500@aol.com 45Engine Heaters
21 DEFENDER@ibm.net 17Forward facing floding seats
22 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa14Gun Rack Mounting
23 debrown@srp.gov 40Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
24 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml20RE: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
25 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa13Re: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
26 "Jeffrey A. Berg" [jeff@28re: ROAV WEB SITE?
27 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml24RE: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
28 SPYDERS@aol.com 17Re: Re: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
29 "FHYap" [FHYap@ix.netcom14Re: Guns accross the boarder
30 Paul Quin [Paul_Quin@pml26RE: Guns accross the boarder
31 Mark Sullivan [marks@dat8Wheels
32 Roydon Woodford [roydon@15Re: Wheels
33 jimallen@onlinecol.com (6subscribe
34 ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za 24Re: Welcome Home !!
35 john cranfield [john.cra13engine heaters
36 debrown@srp.gov 21Removing stubborn bolts
37 "Richard Clarke"[Richard30angle diff - out of sink
38 debrown@srp.gov 36TeriAnn's "ignorance"
39 "FHYap" [FHYap@ix.netcom24Re: Guns accross the border (NO LR CONTENT)
40 CIrvin1258@aol.com 23Re: Guns accross the boarder
41 CIrvin1258@aol.com 13Re: LROA Desert-Pro Challenge '97
42 "Christopher H. Dow" [do17Re: Guns accross the boarder
43 "William L. Leacock" [wl322.6 litre
44 "William L. Leacock" [wl33V8 conversion
45 Clayton Kirkwood [kirkwo25steering box q's
46 "Lowe, Dave J" [LoweDJ@B21RE: 2.6 litre
47 DHW4U@aol.com 9Re: Long Distance Hauling
48 Shaun Oriold [soriold@wo12Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
49 robot1@juno.com 28Railco bushes
50 Russ Wilson [rwilson@usa21Re: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
51 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo14Not-so-good-ideas....
52 "Eyres, Richard RP" [Eyr28RE: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
53 "Chris Weinbeck, Office 70Long, guns/concerns.
54 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo12Re: Wheels
55 Adrian Redmond [channel633Re: Guns accross the boarder
56 James Wolf [J.Wolf@world16pipe bolts
57 James Wolf [J.Wolf@world19query
58 Wayne Haight [whaight@ha24Re: Guns accross the boarder
59 Mike Loiodice [landrvr@t18Today was brought to you by...
60 Wesley Harris [wharris@m17Re: Gun Rack Mounting
61 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr15Re: Engine heater Question
62 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr16FW: Before he's even in the ground (fwd)
63 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr6Opps...
64 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr18Re: Guns accross the boarder
65 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr15Re: Gun Rack Mounting
66 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo10miscellaneous armament...
67 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr13Re: Guns accross the boarder
68 Mike Johnson [johnsonm@b18Re: Guns accross the boarder
69 Hank Rutherford [ruthrfr26Railco bushing material
70 Mike Johnson [johnsonm@b17Re: miscellaneous armament...
71 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns27Re: Guns accross the boarder
72 john cranfield [john.cra17Re: miscellaneous armament...
73 "Richard Clarke"[Richard22Re: LROA Desert-Pro Challenge '97
74 David Cockey [dcockey@ti18Re: Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray
75 David Cockey [dcockey@ti22Re: Engine Heaters
76 rover@pinn.net (Alexande31ROAV web site
77 Dixon Kenner [dkenner@nr26Re: miscellaneous armament...
78 RoverNut@aol.com 36"importing" 110s
79 RoverNut@aol.com 19son of Disco wash
80 RoverNut@aol.com 24Firearm redux
81 David L Glaser [dlglaser14Re: LR 6-cyl engines
82 RoverNut@aol.com 16iia CO
83 matt [nelsml73@snyoneva.14Re: Guns accross the boarder
84 matt [nelsml73@snyoneva.19peacemaker(no lr cont)
85 Andy Phillips [AnPi@nors37RE: query
86 RoverNut@aol.com 15Re: Manifold
87 CIrvin1258@aol.com 14Re: peacemaker(no lr cont)
88 "Richard Marsden"[rmarsd19Re: miscellaneous armament...
89 CIrvin1258@aol.com 20Re: TeriAnn's "ignorance"
90 Andy Phillips [AnPi@nors23RE: Green Rovers. Was miscellaneous armament...
91 CIrvin1258@aol.com 31Gun Rack Mounting - pro/con
92 CIrvin1258@aol.com 12Re: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
93 CIrvin1258@aol.com 14Re: TeriAnn's "ignorance"/deb
94 CIrvin1258@aol.com 13Re: Long, guns/concerns/studies
95 CIrvin1258@aol.com 13Re: Long, guns/concerns/studies
96 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M12Re: Guns accross the boarder
97 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M17Re: Gun Rack Mounting
98 David Scheidt [david@mat22Re: Guns accross the boarder
99 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M10Re: Guns accross the boarder
100 "Spencer K. C. Norcross"22Peacemaker


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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 07:41:09 -0500
From: eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite)
Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally

DEFENDER asked:

>on the web concerning this years Mid Atlantic rally?

A few pictures from the rally are posted on my page, in my car's section
(http://home.dmv.com/~eheite) under the title "Penlan."

All about Iceland:       http://www.dmv.com/~iceland------------
Research and Land Rovers:http://home.dmv.com/~eheite/index.html
_________
|        \               BABY GETS 19 MILES PER U. S. GALLON!
|  BABY   \_===__
|  ___        ___|       Always remember to pillage
|_/   \______/   ||      BEFORE you burn.
___\_/________\_/_____                   ---- Ned the Horrible
Ned Heite  Camden, DE    

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 06:40:29 -0600
From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Subject: Rochesters rejetting!!

Hi All,
 Well I found a source for re-condisioned model B Rochester Carbs & have 
purchased one to rejet for my 7 to 1 engine.  Has anyone done this?  I
have been following the thread on the list about using jets 48 or 50 & 
wonder if 46 or 48 would be better for the lower compression engine.
If any one has done this & can advise me please let me know.
Thanks,
Rob Davis_chicago

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 97 07:11:51 EST
Subject: Re: Springs

> My 
>advice on shackle plates came from the gurus at Rovers North.  Think about 
>it - what good are bushings if the shackle plats are drawn up tight against 
>the sides of the springs?

hmmm. interesting. Calland talk to Charlie and tell em what you find out. 
He told me the opposite, and he's the only one I trust there...

later
Dave

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 97 07:15:54 EST
Subject: WTB 2.25 Manifold

looking for a good 2.25 petrol exhaust manifold.
Email me direct at dbobeck@ushmm.org
must not have any broken off studs or crooked studs. (this is the problem I 
am having now)

thanks
DaveB
arlington VA
'72 SIII 88" 
202 488 6588
703 528 8727

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 09:21:22 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: few questions

philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be wrote:
> I've got a few questions for you:
> 1) my LW petrol 2.25 is smoking to when I'm starting, so probably those
> valve seals. Can these be so worn that they are destroying (the oil) my
> spark plugs ? (only on one cilinder). One of them is covered by oil. The car
> also consumes a lot of oil. What's a lot ?  hmmm.... 1 liter/150 km or  This problem is usually caused by broken piston rings There is no easy fix.    
> 2) I've replaced one U-joint on the front shaft 3 months ago. It's making

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 21 lines)]
> 5) I can go one but these were the most important...
> Philippe Carchon

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:55:52 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Events

Hello All,
        I have just put up our Land-Rover web page. I would like to have
the event list on this page as complete and up to date as possible for
people, but so many large and small events happen I need the info. to put
on the page. If you know of an upcoming event, no matter how small, or your
club has events, and would like to have the dates and details posted in
another place please email me the information and I'll update our page.
Those doing Off Road events we especially want to list your events! Thanks
very much, and have a great day.

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Rochesters rejetting!!
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:51:51 -0500

Start with the 48 and adjust from there.  A number of variables, ie.
state of tune(plugs, points, coil, wires, valves, timing), gas octane,
air cleaner, exhaust system and altitude come into play so there is no
pat answer.  You will have to do plug reads to get it right.  Also be
sure the float is correctly set per instructions in the kit.
I just did this for my 8:1 and am currently at a 50 but may need to go
up to 51 or 52, as I still have an occasional backfire when cold and
choked upon shifting.  Its worth the effort though.  With the stock
exhaust I have easily gained another 10-15 mph on the top end.  And it
never ran smoother.
If I can be of further help, contact me directly.  
BTW, didn't you buy a 109 last year in GA ?(I was 2nd in line for it!!)
Good luck.
>----------
>From: 	car4doc[SMTP:car4doc@concentric.net]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 7:40 AM
>To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject: 	Rochesters rejetting!!

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Thanks,
>Rob Davis_chicago

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Subject: Engine heater Question
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 08:57:34 -0500
From: David Russell <David_R@mindspring.com>

While stripping the Green Rover down for a rebuild I pulled out a small 
heater attached to the lower radiator hose. I am just curious about the 
efficacy of this device. Seems to me, it's only going to heat up a tiny 
bit of coolant and not really help with cold mornings in Vermont.

Anybody interested in a SWB SW hardtop (not a Safari top)? It's in the 
metro-DC area.

Cheers.

David Russell
http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r
David_R@mindspring.com
1969 SIIA SWB (Pastel Green, 4-speed)
1997 SD (Oxford Blue, 5-speed)
1977 FJ40 (rust, 8-speed (hopefully still))

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:08:28 -0500 (EST)
From: kelliott@intranet.ca (Keith Elliott)
Subject: Re: Engine heater Question

While doing the rebuild on my 88 I also had a heater in the lower rad hose.
I thought that this was something that a PO put in but now I am wondering if
it was a factory thing on some LR. Anyone know?

>While stripping the Green Rover down for a rebuild I pulled out a small 
>heater attached to the lower radiator hose. I am just curious about the 
>efficacy of this device. Seems to me, it's only going to heat up a tiny 
>bit of coolant and not really help with cold mornings in Vermont.

Keith

1961 Series II 88"
Ottawa

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From: Mark Sullivan <marks@dataflowsys.com>
Subject: RE: Events
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:10:02 -0500

Anybody know the web address for these guys.

-----Original Message-----
From:	East Coast Rover Co. [SMTP:ecrover@midcoast.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 8:56 AM
To:	lro@playground.sun.com
Subject:	Events

Hello All,
        I have just put up our Land-Rover web page. I would like to have
the event list on this page as complete and up to date as possible for
people, but so many large and small events happen I need the info. to put
on the page. If you know of an upcoming event, no matter how small, or your
club has events, and would like to have the dates and details posted in
another place please email me the information and I'll update our page.
Those doing Off Road events we especially want to list your events! Thanks
very much, and have a great day.

From: Mike Smith,  EAST COAST ROVER CO.
*Land Rover and Vintage 4X4 Specialists*
21 Tolman Road, Warren, ME (USA) 04864
207.594.8086 phone  207.594.8120 fax

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Engine heater Question
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:19:43 -0500

Oh, contrair, mon frere!!
The heater in the lower hose is in contact with the coolant in both the
radiator and block, and so will warm all the coolant.  Translate this
into easy starts and instant heat (well, what there is of it anyway) on
cold Vermont winter morns.

>----------
>From: 	David Russell[SMTP:David_R@mindspring.com]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 8:57 AM
>To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject: 	Engine heater Question

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 27 lines)]
>1997 SD (Oxford Blue, 5-speed)
>1977 FJ40 (rust, 8-speed (hopefully still))

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 09:35:30 -0500
From: Keith Mohlenhoff <krm@nj.paradyne.com>
Subject: Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray

Hello;

1. Regarding under-chassis protection, a guy at the '97 Atlantic British
Rally in July had fabricated sliders which replaced the sill trim
peices. The sliders were bolted to the outriggers. They were strong
enough to have his Rover jacked up by the center of the slider using a
highlift. He was selling them at a good price, I don't know the guy's
name but I have a phone number for a friend of his. Email me if you want
it.

2. I have a 2.25 Diesel engine in my 109 and I am very happy with the
gas mileage and the consistant operation of the engine. Notice I didn't
say performance, since most people link performance with speed.
I am wondering what kind of gas mileage a 2.25D would get in an 88" and
if there would be a noticeable difference in pickup and uphill
performance. I really like my diesel and was wondering how much of a
difference the 1000lbs would make.

When it gets time to rebuild the engine in my 88" 2.25P, would it make
more sense to convert it to diesel or swap the bad gas engine for a
great Diesel. The 2.25P only has 25k miles on it so it may be awhile,
but just think I could reduce the number of spares I would have to keep.

3. This weekend I mounted a large rectangular baking pan(aluminum, in
keeping with the soul of the Rover) to the cross members under the
tranny and flywheel housing. I deformed the tray so all the drips
congregate in the center. In the center of the center I installed a
small sump fashioned from a old aluminum cooking pot which we no longer
use(I forget why). In the sump I located a small submersible electric
pump which pumps the oil up to a reservoir(AKA oil bath air cleaner) in
the engine compartment. The reservoir's outlet pipe located above the
oil fill level, is linked to an inline filter which then splits into two
tubes, one which drains into the tranny and the other into the
Overdrive. Extra oil in the Overdrive gets forced into the transfercase
or out that hole in the top cover. The oil eventually ends up back in
the drip catch tray and is recirculated.
Result: I no longer need to top off my gearboxes.
P.S. I have a drain on the reservior which I will use to drain the
sludge which will accumulate.

Keith R. Mohlenhoff
63 IIA 109 5 door 2.25D
71 IIA 88 3 door 2.25P

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 07:36:23 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Rochesters rejetting!!

At  6:40 AM 11/5/97 -0600, car4doc wrote:

>Hi All,
; Well I found a source for re-condisioned model B Rochester Carbs & have
>purchased one to rejet for my 7 to 1 engine.  Has anyone done this?  I
;have been following the thread on the list about using jets 48 or 50 &
>wonder if 46 or 48 would be better for the lower compression engine.
;If any one has done this & can advise me please let me know.
;Thanks,
>Rob Davis_chicago
;
Hi Rob.
Think altitude for different jet sizes.  The higher you g the leaner the
jet should be.  Those of us taling 51 or 50 jets are at or near sea level.
I suspect the 48 jet would be good around 3000 feet.

TeriAnn Wakeman            For personal mail, please start subject line
Santa Cruz California      with TW.  I belong to 4 high volume mail lists
twakeman@scruznet.com      and do not read a lot of threads..Thanks

"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, or better.' So I bought a Macintosh."

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 07:46:23 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Engine heater Question

At  8:57 AM 11/5/97 -0500, David Russell wrote:

>While stripping the Green Rover down
<snip>

>David Russell

David, I noticed that you spelled Green Rover with caps. I sincerely hope
that you have not named this car Green Rover.  If you have will you please
reconsider?

I have owned a 1960 109 for ninteen years.  During that time her name has
been "The Green Rover".  Since I am gregarious over the internet & have
been for 11 years (I was one of the first 10 people on the Land Rover mail
list), a lot of people around the world are aware of my car by the name
Green Rover.  I would prefer to keep the name exclusive to this car.

Please?

TeriAnn Wakeman            For personal mail, please start subject line
Santa Cruz California      with TW.  I belong to 4 high volume mail lists
twakeman@scruznet.com      and do not read a lot of threads..Thanks

"The box said 'Requires Windows 95, or better.' So I bought a Macintosh."

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:51:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: new exhaust

>I'm being a bargain shopper, so my question is:  Where do people buy their
>replacement exhaust systems from for their Series vehicles.  (88").  And,
>how much should I expect to pay?
>Looking in the RN catalog, I'm guessing it's about $170+.  Any other places
>with
>better prices for the same or better quality?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Thanks.
>Vel
Vel, first let me say that I really like the folks at RN, and they have
always given me excellent service. In some cases their prices will be a bit
higher than the other folks but in the case of exhaust bits they don't seem
to be too bad compared to other catalogs that I have.  Just check around
and don't buy any extra junk that you don't need...i.e. some people put
together a "package" that looks like a great deal but is really just extra
crap that you don't need to do the job...
  The "Who should I buy my parts from?" debate rages.....

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Wiring Harness
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:21:28 -0800

I can't see any problems with using a newer harness.  You will end up
with a few unused wires.  Just make sure that you verify all connections
against a wiring diagram using a test light or meter.  The wiring in a
Land Rover is about as simple as you will find in any vehicle.  I think
that you will find that the wiring varied from year to year regardless
of Series,  (probably from night shift to day shift knowing the British
;-)  so finding an exactly correct loom (harness) will be nigh
impossible.

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Steve Fullwood [SMTP:ansdf@ttacs1.TTU.EDU]
>Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 8:13 AM
>To:	Paul Quin
>Subject:	RE: Wiring Harness
>	I got my harness from British Wiring.  I got their number from the LR FAQ.
> They are very nice people a Husband and Wife thing.  I paid right around
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
>Thanks
>Steve

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:31:54 -0800 (PST)
From: scooper@scooper.seanet.com (John & Sandy Cooper)
Subject: no LR

To be spoken softly and solemnly with heads bowed over at least a
> >schooner...
> >  Our beer,
> >  Which art in barrels.
> >  Hallowed be thy drink.
> >  Thy will be drunk,
> >  I will be drunk,
> >  At home as it is in the pub.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> >  Forever and ever,
> >  BARMEN.

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Guns accross the boarder
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:44:05 -0800

On the topic of guns, my personal views are fairly neutral.

Since many Land Rover owners on this list like Terry Ann go on long
(off) road trips that take them across the Canadian boarder, please be
aware that you cannot bring any firearms across the boarder into Canada
without special permits.  Hand guns especially are heavily restricted.
If you forget to mention that pistol under the seat while clearing
customs and an agent finds it there, you're vehicle will be impounded
and you will arrested and face heavy fines.  

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	CIrvin1258@aol.com [SMTP:CIrvin1258@aol.com]
>Sent:	Tuesday, November 04, 1997 6:55 PM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Re: TeriAnn's concern

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 56 lines)]
>1959 SII 88 petrol
>1962 SIIa 109 diesel

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:19:51 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray

Just curious as to whether the 2.25 Diesel in the 109 is an original 
factory diesel, or a swap job.
A 2 and a quarter diesel in an 88 will hurry a bit more than a 109, but 
all things being relative, you won't outrun a petrol 88, unless you cross 
 deep water and then they'll drown while you toddle along.
Personally, I prefer allowing oil to spooge all over creation. Keeps 
Travis Bickle out from under your truck.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: ARTuro500@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:29:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Engine Heaters

David Russel asked about the in-line fluid heater on one of his lower
radiator hose.

I have never seen one attached to the lower radiator hose, but out here in
Montana nearly everone has some version or another of these things. 

Most folk refer to them generically as Headbolt heaters. And on trips South I
have had people ask me why there is an electrical outlet sticking out the
front of my car. 

Most of the true Headbolt water heaters are installed by inserting a pipe
fitting into the engine at one of the freeze plugs. These are plugs found on
most older water cooled engine blocks. They are designed to pop out of the
block should water in the system freeze. This added expansion prevents a
cracked block.

So, many of these in-line heaters are simply piped into the engine through
one of these plugs with a circulating line going to one of the upper water
hoses. On the positive side, they do work pretty well. The water is heated
and circulated by thermosiphon throughout the engine and radiator. A lot of
people also open the radiator cap to improve circulation.

On the downside, they are pretty expensive to run (say, overnight for four
months). A timer on the plug-in helps here. The freeze plug mount is also
just not a good place to park one of these things. It's a little close to the
exhaust manifold and I have had them blow out from heat erosion, etc.

You can also buy a version that heats oil in the sump. I have no personal
experience with these. I prefer the magnetic device that heats up a 5X6-inch
block can that can be mounted anywhere on the car. I usually place it under
the oil pan, once again on a timer. On real cold morns, I will move it to the
battery before cranking. On real, real cold days, I bring it in the house and
put it on frozen water pipes.

Happy Winter motering.

Paul Driscoll
White Sulphur Springs,  MT
65 IIA HT

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From: DEFENDER@ibm.net
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 12:40:48 -0500
Subject: Forward facing floding seats

I am thinking about taking the jump seats out of my d90 as they take up
a lot of room and I never have 6 people in my car.  I saw some seats
advertised, I think that is was Craddocks, that fold much the way that
the jump seats do but they are forward facing (probably much more
comfortable).  Have any of you fit these seats into any of your rigs?
If so, where did you get them?  I am in the US.  Also, what did you pay
for them and are you happy with them?

William Pittman

1997 D90 WAGON

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:07:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Gun Rack Mounting

I was thinking of mounting a nice functional gun rack in the little green
rover and was open to suggestions from other members of the list. I was
thinking of mounting it to the spare mount bracket in the cargo bed for
extra support..  any one with an idea for security/mounting?

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

1967 88 "The Little Green Rover"

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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 05 Nov 97 11:27:42 MST
Subject: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.

From: <debrown@srp.gov>
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
I saw a thing on TV one time ("Bill Neigh, the science guy") where he showed
you how to measure the weight supported by each wheel of a vehicle. (Or was
it, calculating the total weight of a vehicle? - Either way, it should
work.)

What you do is:
  1. Make sure each tire has the exact same air pressure.
  2. Park on a flat, level surface.
  3. Slide a piece of paper under all 4 sides of each tire until it stops,
     thus, defining the contact area of each tire. (Assumes square'd
     edges of the contact area, don't overinflate tires.)
  4. Calculate the contact area for each tire. (length * width)
  5. Multiply the air pressure by the surface area for the weight supported
    by each tire.

This should let you know if there is truly a weight difference left to
right, or front to back on your rig. It may not be extremely accurate, but
should be close enough... close enough to indicate if there's a reason for
your rig leaning to one side, no???

Anyone want to take the time to try this and let us know what you discover???

Dave (*not* the science guy) Brown

P.S. We should be able to see who has spare time!!! ;-)

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

------------------------------
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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 10:34:16 -0800

I imagine that this would only work if all four tires are the same
make/model/size...

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	debrown@srp.gov [SMTP:debrown@srp.gov]
>Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 10:28 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 42 lines)]
>                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
>                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:15:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.

>Anyone want to take the time to try this and let us know what you discover???
Right after I take the time to fill the rover with marbles to determine
it's volume...

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

1967 88 "The Little Green Rover"

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:33:32 -0500
From: "Jeffrey A. Berg" <jeff@purpleshark.com>
Subject: re: ROAV WEB SITE?

>is there any information on the web concerning this years Mid Atlantic rally?

If by this years you mean the 1997 Middy I'm working on an article now
which will be available via the RoverWeb. Stay tuned.

And for those of you who have been patiently waiting for my piece on this
years OVLR Birthday Party--It's done. As soon as Dixon and I figure out why
I can't FTP to the site (don't ask!) it'll be available for your enjoyment.
I'll post a notice when it's up and running.

RoverOn!

jeff

==
 Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
                    jeff@purpleshark.com
                     ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life,
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:31:13 -0800

Russ writes:
|>Anyone want to take the time to try this and let us know what you
discover???
Right after I take the time to fill the rover with marbles to determine
it's volume...

No, no, no.  You do that by driving into a pond and measuring the
displaced water!

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Russ Wilson [SMTP:rwilson@usaor.net]
>Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 11:16 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Re: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 22 lines)]
>Leslie Bittner
>1967 88 "The Little Green Rover"

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From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:44:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:  Re: Measuring the weight distribution of your rig.

In a message dated 11/5/97 2:18:06 PM, you wrote:

>Right after I take the time to fill the rover with marbles to determine
>it's volume...

Marbles? Too easy, you must have too much time on your hands. Beach sand
should be nice and accurate. One could also determine the internal volume of
the frame...

--pat
93  110

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From: "FHYap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 11:49:42 -0800

please be
> aware that you cannot bring any firearms across the boarder into Canada
> without special permits.  

Is that new?  It used to be you could take a (hunting type) rifle or
shotgun into Canada without any problems.

Frank

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: RE: Guns accross the boarder
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:04:42 -0800

I don't know the exact restricions or procedures for hunting guns, but
I've heard many stories about people having their vehicles siezed
because they attempted to smuggle their hand guns accross.

The rules for transporting hand guns in Canada are very strick - guns
must be unloaded, ammo in a separate case ect.

Anybody know the exact rules?

Paul.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	FHYap [SMTP:FHYap@ix.netcom.com]
>Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 11:50 AM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	Re: Guns accross the boarder

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
>shotgun into Canada without any problems.
>Frank

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 15:33:53 -0500
From: Mark Sullivan <marks@dataflowsys.com>
Subject: Wheels

Has any one used Hammerite to paint wheel rims. How does it stand up to
the lug nuts. Should I paint the rims with acrylic. Is this better than
Hammerite?

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 19:46:13 +0000
From: Roydon Woodford <roydon@landrover.org>
Subject: Re: Wheels

Yes !!!! Fantastic no problem but leave it several weeks to harden !!!!!!

Roydon

>www.landrover.org
roydon@landrover.org
At 03:33 PM 11/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Has any one used Hammerite to paint wheel rims. How does it stand up to
>the lug nuts. Should I paint the rims with acrylic. Is this better than
>Hammerite?

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 15:01:11 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: subscribe

subscribe

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From: ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 19:45:17 +0000
Subject: Re: Welcome Home !!

Hi all,

> > People in the North West seem t be stuffing Salisbury rear axle
> housings on
> > 88s.  It should keep you from breaking axles.  How is the drive
> shaft
> > angles on the 88 with the extended shackles?  I have heard that
> it is a
> > little steep for an 88.  If it is you might try a 1/4 wedge on
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
> from 109") just angle the whole casing nose up a little.  I ran 
> Salisbury rears on both my 88"s.

I was advised against angling the casing in any way because it makes the
bearings run dry.  Seemed logical to me, but maybe I'm just paranoid...

- Iwan Vosloo
( 1975 SIII 88" Diesel )

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 17:22:22 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: engine heaters

The type of heater that goes into a plug in the cylinder block is known
in Canada as a, can you guess?, Block Heater. These were fitted to
Canadian spec. Series IIa s in a threaded hole below the exhaust
manifold at the rear which is about 1 1/2 ins in diameter.
  The so called frost or freeze plugs are not put in engine blocks
as any sort of protection but as means of removing casting sand during 
manufacturing.
   John and Muddy

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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 05 Nov 97 14:29:28 MST
Subject: Removing stubborn bolts

From:  David Brown - Graphics Specialist ~SRP~ e-mail: debrown@srp.gov
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
Rick,

I have found a product called "Kroyl" that works very well. It's only sold
mail order, from Kano Laboratories. 1-615-833-4101

Good luck, Dave Brown

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

------------------------------
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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 08:29:53 +1000
Subject: angle diff - out of sink

how do you counter the vibration from the prop shaft? - I understand that
the face on the diff and the face in the output plange should be parallel -
I also understand that the reason the double hooks joint was put on the
stage 1 was to counter this - Rangies dont have it but the splines on the
prop shaft are 'rotated' (out of sink) to counter it

From: "John McMaster" <john@chiaroscuro.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:47:00 +0000
Subject: Re: Welcome Home!!!
> People in the North West seem t be stuffing Salisbury rear axle housings
on
> 88s.  It should keep you from breaking axles.  How is the drive shaft
> angles on the 88 with the extended shackles?  I have heard that it is a
> little steep for an 88.  If it is you might try a 1/4 wedge on each side
> between the spring & the housing.
As the spring plates have to be rewelded (got to be moved inboard
from 109") just angle the whole casing nose up a little.  I ran
Salisbury rears on both my 88"s.
john
______________________
John McMaster
john@chiaroscuro.co.uk
green/purple 110/Massey Ferguson

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From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 05 Nov 97 14:48:34 MST
Subject: TeriAnn's "ignorance"

From:  David Brown - Graphics Specialist ~SRP~ e-mail: debrown@srp.gov
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
                                    Pers. E-mail: rovernut@hotmail.com
Woah!!! Charles, get a grip!!!

Maybe TeriAnn's "opinion" wasn't the same as yours, (I know I didn't
particularly agree with it) but that's no reason to blast her!! I am an
avid gun owner myself, and have a "concealed carry permit" so don't go
thinking that I'm some tree hugging Sierra club member or something (no
offense intended!) But let's get to the reason we all *voluntarily*
subscribe to this list - the discussion of LR's and related activities.
We're all in the same "boat" (or, rather, "leaking Rover") so let's be nice
to each other and practice tolerance for other's opinions.

Personally, I almost always carry a side arm, usually a .45 caliber when I
go wheeling. I don't flaunt it, and many times others don't even notice.
(depending on what I wear, etc.) I've never needed it for protection, thank
God, and doubt (pray) that I ever will, but it's my personal choice.

Please, let's not slam each other!!!

Dave (the peacemaker) Brown

P.S. "Peacemaker"... wasn't that the name of a gun?? ;-)

 Never give up your life for          #=======#         _____l___
 anything that death can take away.   |__|__|__\___    //__|__|__\___
                        -anonymous    | _|  |   |_ |}  \__ - ____ - _|}
                                      "(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)

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From: "FHYap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the border (NO LR CONTENT)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:54:10 -0800

> I don't know the exact restricions or procedures for hunting guns, but
> I've heard many stories about people having their vehicles siezed
> because they attempted to smuggle their hand guns accross.
> The rules for transporting hand guns in Canada are very strick - guns
> must be unloaded, ammo in a separate case ect.

You are correct with respect to handguns and certain types of rifles (i.e.,
those fitting the description of assault rifles - please, no arguments
about what constitutes an assault rifle).  It is extremely difficult if not
impossible to get a permit to take one into Canada, even if you are just
passing through on your way to Alaska.

Normally Canada Customs asks if you have any weapons when you cross the
border.  They have never checked my hunting license or checked to see how a
weapon is packed.  If you say no and they find one, I suppose that could be
considered smuggling.

Frank

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:13:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

Canada - Bolt action hunting rifles are okay, as are *some* shotguns.
              Handguns can get you a few centuries, unless (and I believe,
even if, but without permission) you're law enforcement. I think, however,
that you have to inform the lads on the border, that you have them.

Mexico - Used to be okay - but things change very fast there. I do know, that
coming back, anything that's legal in California, is okay to bring back,
though. I wouldn't try it - at least, not with anything expensive. (which
limits you to practically nothing)

for more accurate info (here I go setting myself up for another bashing), the
NRA has a website - though I don't know the exact address - and they have a
complete listing of all firearms transportation laws nationwide, AND covering
foreign countries, and it's updated whenever laws change. I've never tried
it, but I hear that it's pretty neat.

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:17:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: LROA Desert-Pro Challenge '97

"Protection from what?

Richard"

EXACTLY!

Charles

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:27:41 -0800
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

CIrvin1258@aol.com wrote:
> for more accurate info (here I go setting myself up for another bashing), the
> NRA has a website - though I don't know the exact address - and they have a
> complete listing of all firearms transportation laws nationwide, AND covering
> foreign countries, and it's updated whenever laws change. I've never tried
> it, but I hear that it's pretty neat.

I would certainly hope that you would not get bashed for suggesting that
there was accurate information somewhere on the web.  That would truly
be apalling.

C

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 17:34:13 -0500
From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Subject: 2.6 litre

 Dave Lowe writes :-
The Land Rover 2.6L engine is a detuned 3.0L care engine which is destroked.
Two versions were available.  the Euro version has the intake manifold built
into the head, and has a compression ratio of 7 to 1.  
 
 Sorry Dave you have got it wrong, the 2.6 litre was made for a number of
years before it was overstroked and made into a three litre. There are a
number of versions of the 2.6 litre, variuos types were fited to the Rover
P4 cars through the fifties ( 54 on I think )  and early sixties, i.e the
90, 95, 100, 105 and 110, these figures being the nominal bhp power output.
in addition to the de tuned version fitted to the Land Rover.   The  3 litre
comes in three versions, viz Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 . The mk1, basically a Rover 4
cylinder car engine with an extra couple of cylinders. The Mk2 and 3 were
fitted with a fancy cylinder head and aluminum manifold designed by an
engine development company, Weslake, these added about 25 horse power to the
performance. Later in the sixties when the NADA sixes were proven to be
underpowered with the old Rover 90 car engine the Weslake head was then
fitted to the 2.6 to give it a power boost.
 The Weslake head will fit to a right hand drive machine, I have personally
done several, the problem is with the fitting of an air cleaner, there is
very little space between the carb and the steering box.
 The Rover company also made a six cylinder, 2.6 litre  car engine which was
fitted to the SD 1 car as an alternative to the V8, I guess from circa 1975
to 84 ?, this was an overhead cam more modern design, not a popular choice
for the special engine fitter.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile )
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 17:34:20 -0500
From: "William L. Leacock" <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Subject: V8 conversion

dave lowe asks about fitting a RR engine into a 109.
Fitting the Rover V8 into a 109 is relatively easy, there are a number of
companies in the UK who make conversion kits. It is easier to fit in the six
cylinder 109 beacause the engine is further back so fitting the rad is
easier. it is necessary to cut away part of the sides of the footwells to
create enough width for the engoine, this also gives access to  the rear
most spark plugs. The use of Range Rover exhaust manifolds makes the exhaust
system easy to fabricate, there are ready made exhausty systems available in
the UK ( Jake Wright, Burley in Wharfedale, West Yorkshire ) which can save
quite a bit of work.
 Either the 4 or 6 cylider gearbox can be used. If the RR is Auto then you
will need a RR flywheel or a V8 manual car engine flywheel ( lighter than
the RR  and easier to fit the clutch ) which needs drilling to fit the
clutch plate. Dependent upon the kit, it may be necessary to  reduce the end
of the gearbox input shaft to fit the RR flywheel bearing bush. I am not
sure whether the RR auto engine has a brass or steel bearing in the end of
the flywheel, the car auto engine has a steel bush which MUST be changed for
a brass bush, otherwise siezure is inevitable the first time the clutch is
depressed and a gear is selected. My advise is then to go with the Salisbury
rear axle. You may want to consider 3,54 diff ratio.  DO NOT FLOOR THE GAS
IN FIRST GEAR, the gearbox will explode. The RR starter must be used, the
car starter can foul the front prop shaft at mild axle articulation. 
 A less desirable, but cheaper way to install  a V8 is to cut off the
starter mounting from the block, fit the land rover flywheel housing to the
engine, modify the Land Rover flywheel to fit the RR crankshaft and use the
LR starter. The first conversion I saw in 1970 was done this way.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile )
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 14:44:20 -0800
From: Clayton Kirkwood <kirkwood@kirkwood-desk.fm.intel.com>
Subject: steering box q's

After just replacing 4 out of 6 balljoints, swivel pins, most bearings, etc
because my truck wanders at higher speeds I find that I am continuing to
wander. The manual also suggests this can be caused by a bad steering box. I
can move the steering wheel for about 50-70 degrees with little or no
movement in the steering arm coming out of the steering relay. It seems this
should be tighter.

Although the manual suggests that the steering box should be just hand
tightened, I have tried tightening it down further in hopes that this will
tighten up the steering. It doesn't seem to have helped much. I have not
replaced the upper tie rod ends (they *seem* ok).

Any suggestions???? How much does a new box cost? Is it better/easier to
rebuild or replace the steering box?

TIA,

Clayton

59 88 "Rosie"

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From: "Lowe, Dave J" <LoweDJ@BP.com>
Subject: RE: 2.6 litre
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:03:57 -0500

Thanks Bill for correcting my mistake on saying the 2.6 was a detuned
3.0.  Your encylopedic knowledge is appreciated.

Dave Lowe

> ----------
> From: 	William L. Leacock[SMTP:wleacock@pipeline.com]
> Reply To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 1:34 PM
> To: 	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: 	2.6 litre

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 56 lines)]
> Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile )
>  88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: DHW4U@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:08:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Long Distance Hauling

how about a iia in pa

dhw4u@aol.com

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:20:19 -0500
From: Shaun Oriold <soriold@worldchat.com>
Subject: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover

What is it like to make a left turn in a RHD land rover. I am thinking
about getting one and think this might be a problem.  Say your at a
intersection and you go into the left turning lane and there is another
car blocking your view of oncomming traffic.  do you wait till your sure
or would you take the chance and go through?

Shaun Oriold

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From: robot1@juno.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:28:19 -0600
Subject: Railco bushes

Of course! Now I see! Railco bushes are a: made of frictional material,
b:, made of Teflon, and c: a direct replacement for Timken bearings. Now
I am fully educated on the subject. Seriously, useful info and food for
thought, guys, I'll investigate further and let you know what I find.
Maybe mine are just gone, which is why the front wheels rattle 1" in and
out  at the top. 

On the subject of Muffs: I have a customer whose name is Muff Tanriverdi.
A great guy. Turkish descent, I believe. His name was shortened from
Muffoc, which he thought would be objectionable to Americans, when he
immigrated. Muff is also a perfectly normal and acceptable term for one
of  those things that cover your ears in cold weather, as well as the
potentially obsolete fur things women used to use to warm their hands. So
Muff may be somewhat politically incorrect, out of context, but who
cares? Besides, aren't most LRO's Libertarians anyway?

Mark
Robot1@juno.com

P.S. now that I have a rover myself, can the appropriate people send me
membership info re Land Rover Owners clubs both national and regional? I
live in the Chicago area. 

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:02:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover

>What is it like to make a left turn in a RHD land rover.
Quite easy.  You just turn the wheel to the left and off you go.
  Say your at a
>intersection and you go into the left turning lane and there is another
>car blocking your view of oncomming traffic.  do you wait till your sure
>or would you take the chance and go through?
Piss poor driving ability and taking stupid chances when you can't see
traffic have little to do with what side of the rover you are steering
from.  That said, I've had my RHD 88 for 3 years with no problems.  DO NOT
try to cruise around in a RHD rover without side windows however.  This
will get you killed quicker than you would believe.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

1967 88 "The Little Green Rover"

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:08:28 -0500
Subject: Not-so-good-ideas....

Kieth,

This is a not-so-good idea - can you say dust, road grit, and other things
that really don't belong back in your gearboxes?

Up to you, but I wouldn't count this one as a goodie...

               ajr

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From: "Eyres, Richard RP" <Eyres.Richard.RP@bhp.com.au>
Subject: RE: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 12:02:00 +1100 

 ----------
From: Shaun Oriold
Subject: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover
Date: Thursday, 6 November 1997 10:20

"
What is it like to make a left turn in a RHD land rover. I am thinking
about getting one and think this might be a problem.  Say your at a
intersection and you go into the left turning lane and there is another
car blocking your view of oncomming traffic.  do you wait till your sure
or would you take the chance and go through?

Shaun Oriold  "

I drive a RHD S3 SWB and have no difficulty at all with left turns (or
right turns for that mater). But then here in NZ we drive on the left
side of the road. But seriously, what ever you do, wait till you're
sure, because otherwise one day your luck will run out, and chances are
you may end up as a hood mascot on an 18 wheeler or something. Be
careful out there.
Richard.

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From: "Chris Weinbeck, Office Logic, Inc." <cmw@tiac.net>
Subject: Long, guns/concerns.
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:14:17 -0500

Wow.  Where do I start?

I thought, like Roger, that I could stay out of this.  It hasn't 
exploded into a flame-fest but it has smoldered long enough to 
wear me down.

First off, I'm pretty sick of the petty political drivel that ends 
up on the list.  A certain amount is to be expected in any ongoing
conversation, but the bombs all certainly seem to come from one side 
of the aisle.

Maybe Charles should have reserved comment on the "no firearms" policy,
however a flat out attack with wild accusations against someone who chooses
to have a firearm at hand is way out of line.  The later revelation that this 
attack came from someone who keeps both a (my goodness) /handgun/ and
an "Assault Weapon" (gasp!) at home makes the initial charges seem,
well, disingenuous at /best/.

-TeriAnn, you seem like very intelligent person -don't all those TV
shows and "studies" that cause you to harbor such feelings about those who
would go armed likewise explain that "handguns in the home KILL" and 
only "gang-bangers" and drug dealers would keep a "Weapon of WAR"?
Don't these "facts" apply to you or are they incorrect?

As far as "studies" go, one could easily say that a person who keeps a 
fire extinguisher at hand is "ten times more likely" to be involved in 
a "tragedy" where one is used and that Twinkies in the home are "43
times more likely" to be "associated" with obesity than to be part of a healthy
diet.  If you don't understand the dishonesty of such "studies" please 
e-mail me privately.

Most folks have no idea how many decent people carry a guns.  Decent
people who ALWAYS carry guns.

Decent people who obey the law.  I'm a competitive shooter,
firearms instructor and hold a black belt for that matter.  Before anyone
gets the idea that only people like myself are "qualified" or "safe"
in choosing to take on the responsibility of firearms ownership and/or
possession -forget it.  If you're not a /convicted/ violent felon, mental
incompetent or /incompetent/ drug user it's up to you to CHOOSE. 

Choose.  Just like anything and everything else.  Its called liberty. 
(A hint for those wondering about my political slant)

Choose to be irresponsible, unsafe, dangerously ignorant or violent?
GO TO JAIL.  Don't expect me to roll over or make excuses for you.

As to the "logic" of personal protection; choose for yourself, based
on /your/ perception of reality.  Don't tell me about my reality.

BTW, I stop for anyone who looks like they need a hand on the side of the
road.  How can anyone /assume/ that a Good Samaritan isn't carrying a gun
or that someone carrying a gun couldn't be a Good Samaritan?  -Just prejudice.

Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.       V (508) 392-0288
  ______                              7 Littleton Road         F (508) 692-0897
  |__][_[_\__                     Westford, MA 01886     Computerization for
  |___\_|_]__]                                                           the healthcare
    (o)       (o)   '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional

               Ask me about East Coast Rover Co.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:19:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Wheels

Rustoleum has a white (Antique White I believe) that's a dead ringer for LR
Limestone.

Use this with a good primer and you can paint and forget 'em.

                    ajr

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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 01:35:56 +0100
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

At the severe risk of starting a flame-series the like of which we
hasven't seen on this list since the ECR discussions last year, I cannot
resist asking -

Why would anyone, especially a LRO want to drive around with a hand gun?
Hands up all those who drive while packed?
Why is it, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, that Americans
feel safer carrying a gun?

Sorry for the typically european naivity of it...

Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 21:09:29
From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: pipe bolts

>Subject: Removing exhaust pipe bolts
>Any tips on how to safely remove the nuts holding the exhaust pipe to the
>manifold?  They're pretty heat corroded.  Apart from wrapping them in rags
>soaked in pentetrating oil for a day or so is there anything else that might
>help?

you could try an old machinest trick of using dry ice to shrink the bolt.
Apply the co2 to the bolt or stud and keep the flange warmer than the the
bolt, it should come loose rather easily.

Jim Wolf 

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 20:50:27
From: James Wolf <J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: query

>Subject: RE: Headliner
>Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 17:36:00 -0000
>In case you didn't find them there, they appear in LROi (so they
>_should_ be reputable) and yes, the linings do appear to be quite nice.
>I think I shall have a go with 2mm MDF first off though because its so
>cheap! I have a 90 hard top so it will help no end to stop the
>reverberation of the diesel noise in the back when I have no load there.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
>it.
>Andy.

Ok, so what is MDF and why only 2mm?

Jim Wolf

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Date: 	Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:17:27 -1000
From: Wayne Haight <whaight@hawaii.edu>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

Adrian Redmond wrote:

> Why is it, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, that Americans
> feel safer carrying a gun?

Adrian,

Not all Americans feel that way. Many of us feel you are less likely to
get hurt/killed if you DON'T carry a handgun. Here in Hawaii we have a
very restrictive policy on firearms, and we also have a low homicide
rate. A correlation there? I don't know... maybe its just the nice
weather that keeps everyone happy...

-- 
Wayne R. Haight
Senior Fisheries Research Specialist
Joint Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research
2570 Dole Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 20:25:05 -0500
From: Mike Loiodice <landrvr@telenet.net>
Subject: Today was brought to you by...

The color GREEN!

Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover 

The dementia is much worse than you all thought....

Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover
Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover Green Rover ....

I got one too! hehehehehehehehehehehe

Cheers
Mike

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 20:29:02 -0600
From: Wesley Harris <wharris@midmon.com>
Subject: Re: Gun Rack Mounting

At 01:07 PM 11/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I was thinking of mounting a nice functional gun rack in the little green
>rover and was open to suggestions from other members of the list. I was
>thinking of mounting it to the spare mount bracket in the cargo bed for
>extra support..  any one with an idea for security/mounting?

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
>1967 88 "The Little Green Rover"
>Wilson, you bastard!  That name is taken.  Can't you read?

Cheers,
Wes

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:30:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Engine heater Question

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Keith Elliott wrote:

> While doing the rebuild on my 88 I also had a heater in the lower rad hose.
> I thought that this was something that a PO put in but now I am wondering if
> it was a factory thing on some LR. Anyone know?

	Cornwall Canadian Tire my friend... :-)

	BTW, off-road is in Marleborough Forest on Nov 22nd.  Coming?
Hunting season (the gun bit) will be over.  

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:33:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: FW: Before he's even in the ground (fwd)

 Oh God I'm An Ocean Buoy (sung to the tune of 'Oh God I'm a Country
> Boy)
> >  -not by John Denver
> >  Took a flight from the farm
> >  and I never came back
> >  Built a plane from a kit
> >  But I didn't have the knack
> >  Jumped in the cockpit
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 50 lines)]
> >  By the bubbles that I blow
> >  'Cause now I'm an ocean buoy.

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:33:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Opps...

	Wrong list...

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:39:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Paul Quin wrote:

> (off) road trips that take them across the Canadian boarder, please be
> aware that you cannot bring any firearms across the boarder into Canada
> without special permits.  Hand guns especially are heavily restricted.

	If you intend to bring any firearm into Canada, phone the customs
point at that border crossing where you will be crossing into Canada
before you arrive and get the details on what you are bringing in.  SOme
weapons are banned and must be left at the Customs point. Otehrs can come
in with a simple declaration.  You *must* declare any weapons.  If you
don't and they find them...  Canada's gun laws are much more draconian
than the Excited States.

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:44:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Gun Rack Mounting

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Russ Wilson wrote:

> I was thinking of mounting a nice functional gun rack in the little green
> rover and was open to suggestions from other members of the list. I was
> thinking of mounting it to the spare mount bracket in the cargo bed for
> extra support..  any one with an idea for security/mounting?

	Well, in your area of Pennsylvania wouldn't you keep it mounted
just under the spot light you use for jacking deer and other critters
from your green rover?

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:44:14 -0500
Subject: miscellaneous armament...

Dunno why you guys bother with nasty, smelly, legal-problem-firearms when a
trank gun's a LOT easier to get...or make.

          aj"Don't fight the law - work around it..."r

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:48:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, FHYap wrote:

> Is that new?  It used to be you could take a (hunting type) rifle or
> shotgun into Canada without any problems.

	There have been some recent major changes to the gun lawe in
Canada.  With some weapons (shotguns for example) simply declaring them is
sufficient.

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 20:51:41 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

>Not all Americans feel that way. Many of us feel you are less likely to
>get hurt/killed if you DON'T carry a handgun. Here in Hawaii we have a
>very restrictive policy on firearms, and we also have a low homicide
>rate. A correlation there? I don't know... maybe its just the nice
>weather that keeps everyone happy...

Thats easy, the Japanese aren't used to carrying fire arms.

Sorry couldn't resist

Mike Johnson
74 SIII 88 "Blue Rover" aka "Chester"
Remington 700BDL 22-250 & 30-06  "little lead: Big hole"

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 20:52:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Hank Rutherford <ruthrfrd@borg.com>
Subject: Railco bushing material

To those interested:

<robot1@juno.com (Mark Hardig) wrote>

>)Subject: Railco bushes
>)Anyone out there know of what material Railco bushings are made? Also, is
>)it possible to replace them with bearings, or is this a needed wear item?
>)Mark Hardig

  Having bought a set from an anonymous UK supplier, I found the bushing to
be too tight for the pin. While applying a BGR (bloody great reamer) to the
bushing, I found it to be phenolic, a fabric reinforced thermoset plastic,
commonly used as an insulator in electrical systems. Sometimes the rubbing
block on L*c*s ignition points are made of the stuff. Telltale yellow smelly
powder when machining. A pretty good choice, considering it's tough as about
any material can be and still withstand oil and severe shock without
failing. I would quess that most need replacing due to poor/no lubrication,
almost always attributable to the neglect of a Previous Owner. This guy is
splash lubricated thru a hole in the bottom of the Railco housing. Another
good reason to lock those hubs once in a while. 
               Regards, Ruthrfrd@borg.com

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 21:01:25 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: miscellaneous armament...

>Dunno why you guys bother with nasty, smelly, legal-problem-firearms when a
>trank gun's a LOT easier to get...or make.

What I'm trying to figure out is:

What are the best type of springs to have on a LHD while making righthand
turns and shooting assult weapons at Green Jeeps while offroading to take
large format pictures of of hypoid poisoned spotted owls.

Strange mood in here the past few daze.

MiKe JoHnSoN

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 23:11:42 -0800
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

Paul Quin wrote:
> I don't know the exact restricions or procedures for hunting guns, but
> I've heard many stories about people having their vehicles siezed
> because they attempted to smuggle their hand guns accross.
> The rules for transporting hand guns in Canada are very strick - guns
> must be unloaded, ammo in a separate case ect.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 19 lines)]
> >shotgun into Canada without any problems.
> >Frank

  Don't even bother trying to bring hand-guns into Canada, your just 
asking for a peck of trouble. ( How many marbles in a peck? or should I 
ask how many pecks in a LR ) Rifles and shotguns only for hunting, 
provided you can prove ownership of these. Hand-guns?,well, there is 
someone at the border who would just love to talk to ya! Get caught 
driving around with a hand-gun under the seat? Well, you get a free 
vacation to enjoy many wonderful Canadian winters! ( Maybe not that bad, 
but you are in deep ka ka .

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig" (hand-gun owner)

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 22:18:48 -0400
From: john cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: miscellaneous armament...

Mike Johnson wrote:
> >Dunno why you guys bother with nasty, smelly, legal-problem-firearms when a
> >trank gun's a LOT easier to get...or make.
> What I'm trying to figure out is:
> What are the best type of springs to have on a LHD while making righthand
> turns and shooting assult weapons at Green Jeeps while offroading to take
> large format pictures of of hypoid poisoned spotted owls.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Strange mood in here the past few daze.
> MiKe JoHnSoN
I heard to the US government had WWII D90 Land Cruisers for sale for $1

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From: "Richard Clarke"<Richard.Clarke@nre.vic.gov.au>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:21:44 +1000

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 04:38:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: LROA Desert-Pro Challenge '97
messages like this make some of us foreigners real glad we don't live in
the good ol' USA :-)

"Alcohol and firearms will not be permitted."
Well, having been to Fernley, and surrounding areas in September, I can
honestly say that I would not attend (even if I could), if I could not take
a
firearm with me. If the route takes you north towards Gerlach, or northeast
towards Lovelock, there's NOTHING between the three points, (this is an
85-or-more mile strech in either direction we're talking about) and I'd
rather not take the chance of being stranded there with no protection.
Sorry.
Charles

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 22:44:20 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Rock sliders, diesel performance in an 88", tranny drip tray

Keith Mohlenhoff wrote:

> When it gets time to rebuild the engine in my 88" 2.25P, would it make
> more sense to convert it to diesel or swap the bad gas engine for a
> great Diesel. The 2.25P only has 25k miles on it so it may be awhile,
> but just think I could reduce the number of spares I would have to
> keep.

If you mean convert the petrol 2.25 to diesel, it could be done but the
only major parts reused would be block and crank.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 22:49:49 -0500
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Heaters

> Most of the true Headbolt water heaters are installed by inserting a
> pipe
> fitting into the engine at one of the freeze plugs. These are plugs
> found on
> most older water cooled engine blocks. They are designed to pop out of
> the
> block should water in the system freeze. This added expansion prevents
> a
> cracked block.

Don't think these will save your block if it has water instead of
anti-freeze. The holes for "freeze plugs" are really core holes left by
the pattern during casting. The plugs may pop out during a good freeze,
but the block will probably crack elsewhere.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:57:25 -0500 (EST)
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: ROAV web site

DEFENDER@ibm.net wrote:

>Does ROAV have a web site.  If so...is there any information on the web
>concerning this years Mid Atlantic Rally?

We've got one "under construction" right now...it should be up and running 
in the very near future.  While it isn't active yet, the URL will be 
www.pinn.net/rover.

And as long as we are announcing things, write this one down.  The North 
American celibration of the 50th anniversary of Land Rover will be held at 
the Greek Peak ski area (near Cortland, New York in the Finger Lakes area) 
the 20 and 21 of June, 1998.  This event will be jointly sponsored by the 
Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club, the Bay State Rover Owners' Club and the 
Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.  We'll be posting more 
information as it develops.  Cheers

      *---"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                  | 
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
      |   "The oldest Rover-marque club in the Americas"   |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day) |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056    |
      |                                                    |
      *---1972 Series III 88"-----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:59:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: miscellaneous armament...

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Mike Johnson wrote:

> What are the best type of springs to have on a LHD while making righthand
> turns and shooting assult weapons at Green Jeeps while offroading to take
> large format pictures of of hypoid poisoned spotted owls.

	Front left = diesel 109
	front right = 80"
	right rear = reg 109
	left rear =reg 88

	Now we assume regular right hand turns when moving quickly through
western PA forest with the rangers in pursuit while you use your
searchlight to spot out a trail at 3am.

> Strange mood in here the past few daze.

	Russ told me he never lied in June...  Even painted his Green
Rover green at the time after using a brown block of steel (4x8x4) to
set his springs.  Hey HP/UX netadmin back to back with SAS here.  Daze it
is...

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:00:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: "importing" 110s

In a message dated 97-11-04 07:01:33 EST, you write:

<< Tell your 'friend' that his intentions will result in a Federal
 felony charge for smuggling.  DOT does not look kindly on those
 intentionally circumventing DOT/EPA/Customs regulations.
  >>

>From what I understand (ladies and gentlemen, sheath your flame -throwers,
I'm only the messager) you can import a car, in pieces into certain states,
re-assemble them and register them as a kit car. As with any kit car, it has
to be registered as a vehicle 25 years old or more. After it is registered in
that state, it can be sold to an individual in any other state.
This isn't illegal, but it's a pain in the butt, and you are jumping through
MAJOR loopholes - similar to how some people do their taxes, you know?
Skirting the edge.
When it's over and done, you have a 25 year old D110, which doesn't really
exist, it has little to no book value, a bank won't loan any money on it to
you or a future buyer, and you'll have around $30k into it.
The answer? Buy a NAS 110 when you can find one in the $30k's. It requires
patience and a willingness to travel, but you end up with a truck that's
worth at least as much as you paid for it.

I don't know the guys at ECR, but I'm sure you can find someone who will put
it together for you, but if you can't do most of the work yourself, it is
just not cost effective at $50 an hour.

Alex Maiolo
89 RR
93 110 (nas#103)
69 IIa

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:13:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: son of Disco wash

In a message dated 97-11-04 07:04:03 EST, you write:

<<  Instead of being idle
 around 1000RPMS, it would drop to around 3-2 hundred RPM's and sputter and
 blow out black smoke.   >>

When a car doesn't get decent spark, it unevenly combusts, possibly backfires
and may cause damage.
When I had ignition problems in the IIA (bad rotor, not car wash related) it
backfired so badly I blew a hole in the muffler so huge I could put my
forearm in it.

Alex Maiolo

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:23:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Firearm redux

In a message dated 97-11-04 07:04:32 EST, you write:

<< You're obviously a very hateful person >>

Sh*t Charles!
We all represent different views here, from the far left to the far right,
and sometimes we get carried away with our pro/con opinions on controversial
issues like firearms.
But to call TerriAnn a Socialist and to imply that she knowingly gives bad
advice as well as calling her names is absolutely uncalled for. The last time
we had a bout of this magnatude we lost a very cherished member and I can't
sit here and let it happen again.
TerriAnn just poked and you punched hard, then kicked a few times to boot. My
opinion is that it came across a bit childish.
I value your opinion as a leaf springer more than you could ever know, but
let's keep it clean.

Alex Maiolo

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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 00:45:49 -0500
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: LR 6-cyl engines

I have a NADA engine, and I think it is a much better performer than the
4 cyl 2.25 engine that I had in my old Rover.  The trouble is that it is
difficult to get parts for anything that is in, on or attaches to the
head.  Water pumps are no longer available.  I bought the last known
water pump rebuild kit that British Pacific had.  If you want to adjust
your intake valves, you'll be cutting out your own valve cover gasket,
or buying one for $35 that somebody else (not Rover) cut out.  The Westl

Tom Gross

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 02:45:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: iia CO

In a message dated 97-11-05 07:19:18 EST, you write:

<< I am intersted in buying a IIA in Colorado, but I live in New Jersey.
 Does anyone know a reputable and economic hauling company?
 Thanks >>

I'm not going to be to much help here, but there are "some reputable guys" in
Nevavda importing RHD rovers from NZ and I hear they are really nice. I wish
I had a name for you.
Alex Maiolo

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:21:08 -0800
From: matt <nelsml73@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

check with the NRA they have the most up to date info and they have it
one the net, I believe you need permits for all firearms going into
Canada now, as they have various bans that we don't that could
complicate things further...

Be Careful!!! And look into this matter b4 you go!! I'veheard some real
horror stories!!!!!

matt nelson

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:29:38 -0800
From: matt <nelsml73@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu>
Subject: peacemaker(no lr cont)

> P.S. "Peacemaker"... wasn't that the name of a gun?? ;-)
Yep , Colt 45 single action. Famous sixgun of the old west.

As for carrying a pistol, My feeling is do it if you feel the need, and
don't let anyone know period. If you feel safer fine. Guns are tools
like everything else, ther is a lot of responsibility involved and as
long as you are capable of accepting that and exercising extreme
prudence, ok. What most people fear is that soem drunken nut might
mistake them for something they're not...

Never flaunt it don't let anyone know and act responsibly and most
problems will be avoided. Its much like other things in life...

matt nelson

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From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@norsk-data.co.uk>
Subject: RE: query
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 08:09:05 -0000

Wooooah! Calling on my limited DIY knowledge (gulp) MDF stands for
medium density fibreboard. It is I believe made from compressed pulp,
hence the Medium in its name. No, I have never personally come across
high or low density fibreboard! The 2mm thickness allows you to bend it
around quite amazing angles, such as those crazy angles you find inside
all land rovers. With a little heat, patience and luck you can
apparently mould a piece of this board to follow the contours of the
back of the landy (though I believe bolt heads an the inside rain
gutters are just a little beyond its abilities!). I don't suggest it as
something for the load space as it was only put forward as a base for
fabricating linings for the walls and roof of a vehicle. There are
plenty of high density sound-deadening mats out there for the floor of
the vehicle. That said I have been nosing around the odd DIY store and
found that 3mm is indeed too thick. If anyone decides to try this out
please let me know how it goes. If I manage to get my budget under
control for a second or two I will attempt this myself and pass on the
results. One thing to bear in mind is that you are advised to use a dust
mask when cutting this board. Not sure why but I've heard it a lot. Hope
this helps . . .

Andy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	James Wolf [SMTP:J.Wolf@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent:	Wednesday, November 05, 1997 8:50 PM
> To:	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:	query

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Ok, so what is MDF and why only 2mm?
> Jim Wolf

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 03:34:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Manifold

In a message dated 97-11-04 07:04:03 EST, you write:

<< Any tips on how to safely remove the nuts holding the exhaust pipe to the
 manifold?

Soak them with oil, then remove them when they are hot.Take your time!
Replace the bolts and use copper nuts if you can get them.

Alex Maiolo

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:00:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: peacemaker(no lr cont)

"Isn't that the name of a gun?"

It's also the name of the Convair B-36, one of the most beautiful planes ever
built. (not to mention, the most accident-prone...aka the Big, Bad, B-36 -
the only plane ever built, where the wings would fall off while the plane is
just sitting on the ground! Or, the landing gear would fold up!)

Charles

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From: "Richard Marsden"<rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:14:22 +0000
Subject: Re: miscellaneous armament...

Please respond to lro@playground.sun.com

cc:    (bcc: Richard Marsden/EAME/VDGC)

Subject:  Re: miscellaneous armament...

>What are the best type of springs to have on a LHD while making righthand
>turns and shooting assult weapons at Green Jeeps while offroading to take
>large format pictures of of hypoid poisoned spotted owls.
Whilst listening to the carefully crafted volume of the radio,   of
course...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FwithR  [the NATO Green Rover])

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:18:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TeriAnn's "ignorance"

Relax, David...

I was simply offering a return volley for an unexpected one that I don't feel
that I should have recieved in the first place. We're friends again, and it's
over and done with. I have no complaints whatsoever, about anybody here
voicing their opinions - and I encourage them wholeheartedly. However, I will
not allow myself to be accused of being something that I'm not, and
unfortunately for everybody here (sorry), I had no intention of starting a
long thread.

So, what's wrong with the Sierra Club?

Charles
P.S...You actually open-carry while 4-wheeling? Tu esta muy loco!

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From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@norsk-data.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Green Rovers. Was miscellaneous armament...
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 09:15:19 -0000

I would just like to take this opportunity to assure everyone that my
Landy will not be called the "little green rover" on account of the fact
that its blue with a white top. In fact, I shall consider naming it the
"Little NOT Green Rover"! No, I _don't_ want suggestions for what to
call it thanks . . .

Andy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Richard Marsden [SMTP:rmarsden@digicon-egr.co.uk]
> Sent:	Thursday, November 06, 1997 9:14 AM
> To:	lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject:	Re: miscellaneous armament...

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 45 lines)]
> course...
> Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FwithR  [the NATO Green Rover])

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:28:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Gun Rack Mounting - pro/con

I haven't seen the original posting for this yet, because AOL is doing
something screwey with my email, so I'm only guessing here...

I don't know if any gun racks per se are available, but LR does have their
own gun locker. I don't know the part number, but a friend of mine asked
British Pacific about it once, and all he remembered after he was revived,
was that the price was in the stratosphere!

I was given a set of lockers, that were made by some company in Burbank. They
were designed to fit in the back of a 109SW, in place of the rearmost jump
seats (on the bed sides, that is). Since my 109 is a pickup, I had to mount
them on the bed sides directly behind the rear bulkhead, and in a reversed
manner from how they were mounted in the SW (they form-fit in relation to the
SW's rear bench seat).

The bad thing about them - you can carry 2 or 3 long guns in each one, BUT -
to get them inside the lockers, they cannot be in their cases! The doors to
the lockers are smaller than the insides, and the size of the average gun
case is just too big. This in itself presents a problem if you park your
truck in a driveway, and you're loading it up in daylight. (such as I do)

The good thing about them - you can place a piece of plywood across them, and
you have a table!

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:34:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Left Hand turns in a RHD Rover

"DO NOT drive around in a RHD Rover with no side windows. This will get you
killed quicker than anything."

Okay...I'll bite on this one, since my 109 is RHD.

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TeriAnn's "ignorance"/deb

David,

I got 2 emails from you, with the above subject - yet AOL only lets me access
one of them...did you say something anti-AOL?

Charles
P.S. I just noticed that you're in Arizona: so inrelation to open-carrying,
you're not muy loco. You're just muy envied!

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:49:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Long, guns/concerns/studies

Uh oh, I'm in more trouble than I thought I was!

While I am more partial to Zingers, I did carry a fire extinguisher during my
trip, too! (about the only things I didn't take, were my dog, and my bicycle
- I wouldn't have had room for the Zingers!)

Charles

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:49:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Long, guns/concerns/studies

Uh oh, I'm in more trouble than I thought I was!

While I am more partial to Zingers, I did carry a fire extinguisher during my
trip, too! (about the only things I didn't take, were my dog, and my bicycle
- I wouldn't have had room for the Zingers!)

Charles

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:10:43 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

>Why would anyone, especially a LRO want to drive around with a hand gun?
Good point,Adrian.Especially when you consider that the vehicle is
excellently equipped for towing one on wheels.
Sorry,couldnt resist.I *do* wish they call them what they are.Pistols.
After a town in Tuscany Pistoea (sp),where they were invented.After all
a rifle is a "handgun".
Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:39:48 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Gun Rack Mounting

I was thinking of mounting a nice functional gun rack in the little green
rover and was open to suggestions from other members of the list. I was
thinking of mounting it to the spare mount bracket in the cargo bed for
>extra support..  any one with an idea for security/mounting?

Russ,
I would suggest that for reasonable firepower you use a larger
weapon,and tow it *behind* the Green Rover.I believe that towball
locks are available to prevent theft,and you will have much more
room inside for ammunition/beer/dolly birds etc.
Cheers
Mike Rooth(88" diesel Green Rover.What a coincidence!)

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 05:27:34 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@math.earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Mike Rooth wrote:

> >Why would anyone, especially a LRO want to drive around with a hand gun?
> Good point,Adrian.Especially when you consider that the vehicle is
> excellently equipped for towing one on wheels.
> Sorry,couldnt resist.I *do* wish they call them what they are.Pistols.
> After a town in Tuscany Pistoea (sp),where they were invented.After all
> a rifle is a "handgun".

Generally, most rifles are hands-guns.  

David

--------
David_Scheidt@math.earlham.edu

yip yip yip yap yap yak yap yip *BANG*  -- no terrier

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:06:04 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Guns accross the boarder

>Generally, most rifles are hands-guns.
>David

So are most pistols if you want to actually *hit* anything.
Mike Rooth

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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 06:45:42 -0500
From: "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <spencern@acr.org>
Subject: Peacemaker

Dave Brown wrote:
> P.S. "Peacemaker"... wasn't that the name of a gun?? ;-)

It was the name of a Tactical Nuclear Missile as well, harder to get the
concealed carry permit for those, in most states 'cept Nevada :)

-- 
rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1969 SWB, The Wayback Machine
1965 Ex-MOD LWB, Gromit <- Just add bolts  :-0
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

Q. Why do they call it a kilt?
A. Because a lot of people got kilt when they called it a skirt.

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