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From: Autoconv@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re:LT 77 trans install (reply)

The front axle will not like constant 4WD from the LT 230 transfer case, this
is why we make a kit to bolt the Series III transfer case on to the LT 77 or
R 380. See attached file for details.

David Ashcroft

--PART.BOUNDARY.0.4722.emout05.mail.aol.com.875099062
Content-ID: <0_4722_875099062@emout05.mail.aol.com.2260>

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: LT 77 trans install 
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:13:40 +0200 (MET DST)

David,
| The front axle will not like constant 4WD from the LT 230 transfer case, this
| is why we make a kit to bolt the Series III transfer case on to the LT 77 or
| R 380. 
My mailer couldn't handle your attachment. 
Just for curiosity: Why wouldn't the front axle like constant 4WD?

Franz
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:22:38 +0000
From: Ian Stuart <Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: LT 77 trans install

Franz Parzefall wrote:

> David,
> | The front axle will not like constant 4WD from the LT 230 transfer case, > | this is why we make a kit to bolt the Series III transfer case on to the
> | LT 77 or R 380.

> My mailer couldn't handle your attachment.
me neither

> Just for curiosity: Why wouldn't the front axle like constant 4WD?
You get transmission windup in the front axle, which kills the propshaft
and/or diff.

-- 

     ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer)
    Medicine & Veterinary medicine Support Team,
    University Computing Services, 
    Edinburgh University. 
    Phone: +44 131 650 3027

Personal Web pages: <http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/>

------------------------------

From: Andy Phillips <AnPi@serviceteam.co.uk>
Subject: As good as they appear?
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:23:48 +0100

Hi all,

I've spent most of my time lurking in the background on this list - I'm
new to Land Rovers so I've been listening a *lot*! Now I've got a
question but its not about a Land Rover. I've noticed people handing out
advice when an unscrupulous trader has re-emerged under a new name and
its this sort of advice I'm asking for now. I'm looking at some retread
tyres and wider wheels and of all the prices around (in the UK) one
really good deal stands out: Bronco Tyres direct. Has anyone heard of
these people? They advertised in Land Rover Owner International.
I'm absolutely definitely *not* saying these people are no good - I'm
just asking the question before I hand over a few hundred pounds as a
precaution. I know the Bronco retreads are good tyres so no worries
there. What I want to avoid is poor service and a lot of worry. For
instance, the messages about SG seemed to say "Don't worry, they do come
up with the best of goods, but don't be surprised if there is a delay!"
A delay is not a worry once you're expecting it . . .

Many thanks in advance,

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 08:32:34 EST
Subject: Re[2]: LT 77 trans install

> Just for curiosity: Why wouldn't the front axle like constant 4WD?
>You get transmission windup in the front axle, which kills the propshaft
>and/or diff.

Can't UJ fornt axles be phased like uj's on a propshaft?

Or would they go out of pahse at the slightest hint of differential action?

Hmmm....never mind.

How much for that transfer box kit?

later

DaveB

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: LT 77 trans install
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:58:51 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi Ian,
| > Just for curiosity: Why wouldn't the front axle like constant 4WD?
| You get transmission windup in the front axle, which kills the propshaft
| and/or diff.
No. I think the talk was about popping a whole coiler drivetrain (LT77+LT230)
in.
You would get windup with the Series t-box and permanent 4WD, but the LT230 
has a center diff.
That's why I still have both propshafts and/or diffs on my 110 ;-)

cu,
Franz
ps. Any progress with your engine rebuild? My reardiff is now 99% clonkfree!
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 14:26:14    
From: Steve Mace <steve@solwise.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: As good as they appear? 

--- On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:23:48 +0100  Andy Phillips <AnPi@serviceteam.co.=
uk> wrote:

>Hi all,
>I've spent most of my time lurking in the background on this list - I'm
>new to Land Rovers so I've been listening a *lot*! Now I've got a
>question but its not about a Land Rover. I've noticed people handing out
>advice when an unscrupulous trader has re-emerged under a new name and

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
>A delay is not a worry once you're expecting it . . .
>Many thanks in advance,

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
I got 5 of these size 7.50x16 MT pattern for my LtWt about 6 months ago. Th=
ey are bl**dy brillient. Cost me about =A342 each if I remember correctly. =
The set I got are on Michelin carcus and are great off road. If fact I'm so=
 impressed and now saving up to get some 235/85's for the D90!

1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90

-------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.demon.co.uk
www: http://www.demon.co.uk/solwise/
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245
Date: 24/09/97
Time: 14:26:14
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Christian Szpilfogel" <Christian.Szpilfogel.chrisz@nt.com>
Subject: Re: Mobile phones in USA??????
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:14:47 -0400

Actually, GSM is available in the USA but it is operating at 1.9GHz
(Canada too) as opposed to 1.8GHz in the rest of the world. You
may still be able to use your identity card in a rental phone on
this side of the pond for simplified billing but I'm not sure if
the Operating Companies in the US have signed service agreements
yet with Europe. Canada will complete this in January.

Also GSM is generally only available in major urban centres in the
US and Canada as CDMA is becoming more prevelant over here.

Cheers,
   -Christian
    '72 SIII 88"
    '95 Discovery

     From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
     Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:15:37 -0400
     Subject: Re: Mobile phones in USA??????

     Re: GSM in USA:

     Gotta say nyet to that one - everything here is going CDPD and the
like.
     GSM is not making any inroads in the USA - different infrastructure
from
     the old analog cellphone network that we work with here.

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LROI J**p vs LR article

Hi all,

I've read and re-read the comparison of J**p and LR in the latest LROI.  I am
a bit distressed about it.  
First off, the test J**p was the most stripped down version.  Most sold (in
the US at least) have 16"wheels and larger engine.  Secondly, I was rather
impressed with the mud bog run by the J**p (maybe LR should consider limited
slip diff as an option) and this difference should not be discarded lightly.
 Lastly, they didn't touch upon another important point:
Durability.

J**ps are notorious for their junkie gearboxes.  The frame and suspension are
constructed of much thinner materials.

I understand that LROI wants a positive spin on Solihull products but they
should try to present an objective test, give credit to a competitor's strong
points and point out the weak points and finally stress the strong points of
the LR.  The comparison will stand on its on strengths.

Off the soapbox and back in the grease pit
Nate 

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 15:29:06 BST

> I've read and re-read the comparison of J**p and LR in the latest LROI.  I am
> a bit distressed about it.  
> First off, the test J**p was the most stripped down version.  Most sold (in
> the US at least) have 16"wheels and larger engine.  Secondly, I was rather
> impressed with the mud bog run by the J**p (maybe LR should consider limited
> slip diff as an option) and this difference should not be discarded lightly.
>  Lastly, they didn't touch upon another important point:
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> the LR.  The comparison will stand on its on strengths.
> Off the soapbox and back in the grease pit

Yes, I thought it was a tad biased! Sort of pointless reading it, when you know
the result beforehand.

The latest LROi has been out about a week over here. Loads on the Freeloader
- the UK motor press really love it. Some mil. stuff too (including the 
Wolf), but a continued lack of workshop stuff.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 10:26:23 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Hub removal?

>> There are two ways I know of for getting the hubnut off. 
>1. buy the special tool from one of the parts houses. 
> The second way... a chisel and hammer 

the third and right :) way is a large set of channel lock pliers.
tis how I do em, never had a problem.

>Then tighten the outer nut to finger tightness and lock it in place with
>the tabbed lock-washer.

don't forget to lock the inner one with same washer.

later
DaveB.

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 10:27:59 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Hub removal?

>>   I had to put a pipe on... and beat on it but I got it off.  

Ok, I can see how pliers wouldn't work here...

ouch.

DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:37:12 -0400
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article

> Yes, I thought it was a tad biased! Sort of pointless reading it, when you know
> the result beforehand.
> The latest LROi has been out about a week over here. Loads on the Freeloader
> - the UK motor press really love it. Some mil. stuff too (including the
> Wolf), but a continued lack of workshop stuff.
> Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

 I agree,  I didn't read it and I knew it would be a blood bath for Jeep.  I quess
if the rag was called Jeep Owners International we could expect the opposite.

--
end
Mike Johnson
johnsonm@borg.com
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: LROI J**p vs LR article
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 15:54:00 PDT

>I've read and re-read the comparison of J**p and LR in the latest LROI.  I 
am
>a bit distressed about it.
>First off, the test J**p was the most stripped down version.  Most sold (in
>the US at least) have 16"wheels and larger engine.
Remember that LROI is a UK magazine and the small engine with 15" wheels is 
more common over here (tax rules and fuel prices dictate against the 4 
litre)

I think in the description of the vehicles and observed abilities the 
article was quite fair, only when they started voicing opinions did it get 
rather biased (understatement of the year :-)).

I read the article as saying that if you want a street mobile for posing in 
buy the J**p, if you want serious off-road ability (especially towing) then 
buy the 90. Maybe I should get a J**p for commuting and keep the 110 for the 
real fun stuff.

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT

------------------------------

From: micmau@rgalex.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 11:14:01 EST
Subject: Jeep / D90 articles

     The LRO article was interesting.  Most of the US spec J**P have a 
     I6 engine w/ limited slip diff standard (even Dana axles now), and 
     you will not see BFG MT as stock equipment.
     
     Earlier aritcle in US mag summed it up "if you have $20k to spend 
     buy the J**P, it will get you there, if you have $35K+ buy the 
     D90".  They summed it up based on sticker price.  Both had great 
     axle articluation, power was adequate, the D90 leaked at the doors 
     crossing a river and the J**P has a plastic econo box interior.  
     Both carried them to the destination.
     
     The bottom line, anytime a vehicle was stuck, they used the D90 to 
     get it out.  That says it all.
     

------------------------------

From: "MALCOLM R FROBES" <MALCOLMF@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE: CV Joints-
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:17:13 -0400

When the Mini-Minor was first introduced it was accompanied by a brochure
for distributors describing some of the unusual features of the car.  It
clearly described the Rzeppa joint simple terms.  They did it with
drawings, but perhaps I can try with words.  

Make one hand into a fist and clasp it loosely with the other hand.  Align
the *grooves* between your fingers and put ball bearings into these
grooves.  Then, as you turn your fist, the ball bearings will cause your
clasping hand to move with the fist.  You have now approximated a Rzeppa
joint. 

The key feature of the Rzeppa joint is that the grooves are machined in
such a way that, when flexed, only the top and bottom ball bearings -  the
ones on the flex axis of the joint - remain in contact with both the inner
and outer races.  Therefore they are the only ones that transmit power from
the inner race to the outer.  

When ordinary universal joint is flexed, the radius from the center line of
the powering shaft to the point of contact with the powered shaft is
greater along the flex axis (up & down) than is perpendicular to the flex
axis (sideways), resulting in changes of velocity. (The ends of the arms in
the little cross piece joining shafts A & B in theuniversal joint are
closer to Shaft A at the sides of the bend than at the top & bottom.  If
they don’t go as far,  they are changing velocity.)  

Because the Rzeppa avoids transmitting power at the *bent* part of the
cycle, it never transmits power through an angularity. Velocity stays the
same.  Hence, a constant velocity joint as opposed to a changing velocity
joint. 

I suppose you could call either one a CV joint.  

Cheers,
Malcolm

------------------------------

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Subject: Landy vs Eugene the Jeep
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:55:44 -0700

OK, so the article in Septembers LROI was a tad biased and lacking in
true gritty comparisons.  Does anybody have some old stories of
offroading in the company of J**ps?  Can we do our own comparisons?
Series vehicles vs CJ5's? or  Toy Land Cr**sers?

Last winter, Victoria was hit with its biggest snow storm in 70 years.
4 feet (1.25 m) fell on the city in less than 72 hours - in a city that
usually gets less than a foot of snow per year.  The city was paralyzed
for more than two days while the city crews struggled to clear the
streets.  My friend Sussex volunteered to ferry hospital workers too and
from the hospitals in his 1969 IIA SWB.  At times, he was forced to
winch his way up clogged streets from power pole to power pole pushing a
5 foot high bow wave of snow, clearing paths for lesser FWD's
(admittedly without winches) to follow. 

Paul.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:27:13 -0700
From: "Christopher H. Dow" <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: Landy vs Eugene the Jeep

Paul Quin wrote:
8<
> OK, so the article in Septembers LROI was a tad biased and lacking in
> true gritty comparisons.  Does anybody have some old stories of
> offroading in the company of J**ps?  Can we do our own comparisons?
> Series vehicles vs CJ5's? or  Toy Land Cr**sers?

I grew up in Oklahoma, where the standards are the K5 Blazer, big
Bronco, and lifted-to-the-sky rice burner 4WD pickups.  My introduction
to non-US off-road vehicles was in the following statement made by a
friend who'd gone to Brazil to work in the oil fields there:  "You never
want a Land Rover or a Land Cruiser in the jungle.  Whenever anyone gets
stuck--any time of the day or night--they will come find you to get them
out."  

I often go off-road with a group of friends that have J**ps and JF40s,
and they are very competent vehicles.  The difference is, however, they
have spent a TON of money on lifts, big tires, etc., but as of the last
time I went off-road with them, my (then) stock IIA and stock Disco keep
up with them on everything.  There are some trails show the differences
better than others, and I certainly wouldn't take a Disco sans rock
sliders on the Rubicon Trail.

So, from what I've seen, Land Rovers are better when comparing stock
vehicles, and the others can be customized to be highly competent.   For
example, if you spend enough so that your FJ40 cost the same as a D90
(as my friends have), it would perform as well or better.  In
particular, there is a spring-only lift kit available for the Fj40 that
gives it amazing axle articulation.  

C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: 12/4/95 <rsloan@titan.liunet.edu>
Subject: K&iN, or K&out

I'm curious to know how many list members are running their trucks with 
K&N air filters. I just got one and to tell the truth, I haven't really 
noticed all that much difference. I've heard many people claim you get 
extra HP and better mileage, but I seem to be getting pretty much the 
same now as when I had the original in there. So I'm wondering if I 
shouldn't just put the OEM back in there and leave well enough alone.

Rich Sloan
D90

------------------------------

From: Ben Nibali <BNibali@dmtn.com>
Subject: Clutch Slave or Master Cylinder?
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:07:00 -0400

I've got an annoying problem with the clutch on my '65 IIA.

When I first hop into the truck after not driving it for a day or so,
the clutch pedal will drop all the way to the floor with almost no
resistance.  After a few minutes of pumping near the bottom of the
stroke, the seals seem to take up and the clutch operates sort of
normally.  But it never really works right and I always have to pump a
few times to get disengagement.  Rather annoying, I imagine, if you
actually want to drive somewhere.  I wouldn't know since I've never made
it out of the neighborhood in this thing.

Here is another little clue:  Once I get the clutch working, if I let up
on the pedal too fast, I hear a high-pitched slurping sort of a sound
coming from the general viscinity of the slave cylinder.  Is it possible
that it is actually sucking air past the seals?  Hard for me to believe.

So if a cylinder is shot, is there a good way to tell whether it's the
master or the slave?

I should mention that I can think of no good reason why this might have
happened.  The clutch worked like a champ up until it sat for about a
month without moving.  It was pretty hot during this period, though.
And I haven't been messing around with the lines at all so I didn't let
any air in (can't say the same for the brakes...)

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

 -Ben Nibali
 Maryville, TN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:13:45 -0700
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Clutch Slave or Master Cylinder?

Ben Nibali wrote:

> So if a cylinder is shot, is there a good way to tell whether it's the
> master or the slave?

Clamp the flex hose to the slave to isolate the slave.  If the problem
persistsit's in the master or lines.  If it disappears its either in the
slave or
clutch mechanism.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:23:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Clutch Slave or Master Cylinder?

First off, bleed the silly thing and see if that creates an immediate
improvement.

If it does then it's definitely an air leak.

Before you go swapping cylinders, check the flex-line and its connections
for leaks, and check for rust pinholes in the steel line.

Are you losing fluid? if not, then I'd suspect a bogus clutch master.

Look for leaking fluid - that's usually your best bet.

lastly, considering the beast is a work-in-process, swapping and/or
rebuilding both the master and slave (and swapping the flex line) might be
good insurance...

                         Alan/Mr. Churchill

------------------------------

From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: K&iN, or K&out

Hi Rich,
  I have a `96 Disco 5spd manual . I replaced the oem filter in June after
getting it muddy , offroading.  What I have noticed is 1)  better
exceleration off the line
2) a 1.7 mile a gallon (consistant) increase in fuel economy.  Since the K&N
that I purchased was only $8 more than a cooper filter , I think I`ll
continue running it.
I also will be fitting one on the D-90 soon. Can't wait to see what it will
do for the mpg, as this is worse than the Disco.   RGDS,  Rick
                                                 

------------------------------

From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:41:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hub removal?

Dave, I have one more idea.     Try a plumbers drain pipe wrench (worked for
me)
It`s not the same as a pipe wrench.      RGDS, Rick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "DAN PRASADA-RAO (301)757-1479 X26" <prasadaraodp.nimitz@NAVAIR.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: torquing

>>From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc
>>Subject: torquing
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:12:07 -0300

>>Hi all - can someone explain the physics of the torquing procedure that
>>involves a 
>>start to a given Nm or ft-lb tightness, then follows with continuing
>>through an angle?

It's been a while since I looked into that subject, but I believe this
procedure was implemented due to a concern about getting a specified
clamping force between two parts just using a torque spec.  The measured
torque is effected by surface irregularities and such in the threads and
may not actually indicate a consistent or accurate clamping force.  A given
rotation angle on the other hand equates to a fixed amount of thread travel
therefore a known amount of clamping force assuming that the parts are
already in contact with each other and that you haven't exceeded the
strength of the fastener.  I'm sure there are more assumptions somewhere in
here, but I think that's the gist of it.

The theory here is that measuring the rotation angle of the fastener
combined with the torque measurement will yield a more consistent and
accurate clamping force.

Dan Rao

'63 109 Station Wagon

------------------------------

From: Michael R Fredette <mfredett@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Pemex, t-shirt, loose front end advice needed
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:54:03 -0700 (PDT)

 
 ADVICE NEEDED:  As the weather finally turns a bit cooler here, I ready to
 start working on the IIA again.  The front end is very, very loose.  In fact,
 it is a challenge to drive with all of the slack in the steering wheel.
 
 Marty Smith, our local LR backyard expect (and nice guy to boot) looked at it
 and said the ball joints need replacing.  James Howard also said to adjust
 the relay box  ... I think... (that was 6 months ago).  I also have new
 bushes (bushings?)  to replace the old ones.
 
 Anyone else have suggestions?  Your advice and expert comments are greatly
 appreciated!
 
 Later...
 Gerry Elam
 PHX  AZ
 
Gerry,

    Also be sure to check the drag/preload on your swivel ball housings' shim
    pack under the Railco bush. It's supposed to 12 lbs, and as long as you're
    doing the ball joints, the tie rod will be disconnected anyway and so it will
    be easy to check. Proper preload will really make a difference on sloppy
    steering/wandering.

    Rgds
    Mike Fredette
    101FC

------------------------------

From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 14:24:11 EST
Subject: Re[4]: Hub removal?

>Dave, I have one more idea.     Try a plumbers drain pipe wrench (worked for
>me)
>It`s not the same as a pipe wrench.    

broke one of those already, thank you...

Duly noted though. should work fine IF the nut wasn't overtightened.

later

Dave

  RGDS, Rick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 14:41:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Russ Wilson <rwilson@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: Clutch Slave or Master Cylinder?

>I've got an annoying problem with the clutch on my '65 IIA.
>When I first hop into the truck after not driving it for a day or so,
>the clutch pedal will drop all the way to the floor with almost no
>resistance.  After a few minutes of pumping near the bottom of the
>stroke, the seals seem to take up and the clutch operates sort of
>normally.  But it never really works right and I always have to pump a

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>normally.  But it never really works right and I always have to pump a
>few times to get disengagement.

fill the thing up with juice...
bleed the slave
see what happens...

always try the easy stuff first

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh's full service Land Rover Club

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:11:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Pemex, t-shirt, loose front end advice needed

In a message dated 97-09-24 13:55:04 EDT, you write:

<< Anyone else have suggestions?  Your advice and expert comments are greatly
  appreciated! >>

Loose steering can result from:
1. Steering box problem (expensive) - Bearings going out/ races shot
2. Ball joints shot (drop arm, longitudinal arm and most commonly tie rod
ends)
3. Steering relay is shot.
4. Swivel pins are excessively worn.

Ball joints are easy to check. (wobbly when wrenched around)
I don't have a good way to check the relay (I've only tried grabbing the top
steering arm and seen if it moves the lower steering arm the same
amount--front end jacked up)
Open the steering box fill plug and make sure there's oil (90wt) in there, if
so, you're probably ok there.
Swivel pins are checked by jacking up the front end and checking for play in
the wheel (each independantly)

Good luck
(you might also check that the toe-in is correct)
Nate

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: K&iN, or K&out
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:13:04 -0400

Been using a K&N for several years on my '74 SIII.  It is louder than
the oil bath and probably as effective in filtering out the smallest of
particles, but the K&N is by far more free flowing.  Where you will
notice it is at the top end on the highway.  The truck will rev more
freely and top speed will increase without a doubt.  I suggest you do
some seat-of-the-pants testing and your results should be similar.
Other than that, not much difference.  Nothing will greatly increase
fuel mileage on the 2.25 Petrol engine.  For serious and very dusty or
very wet conditions or for deep wading, put the oil bath back on
temporarily.  Nothing is gained at the low end with the K&N.
Good Luck.
L8r.

John Tackley
'70 IIA 88
'74 SIII 88
Richmond, VA

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	12/4/95 [SMTP:rsloan@titan.liunet.edu]
>Sent:	Wednesday, September 24, 1997 12:51 PM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	K&iN, or K&out

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
>Rich Sloan
>D90

------------------------------

From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: K&iN, or K&out
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:47:37 -0400

OOPS, meant to say the K&N is NOT as effective in filtering out finer
particulates...mea culpa...

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Tackley, John 
>Sent:	Wednesday, September 24, 1997 3:13 PM
>To:	lro@playground.sun.com
>Subject:	RE: K&iN, or K&out

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 32 lines)]
>>Rich Sloan
>>D90

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: pscales@blvl.igs.net (P.S.)
Subject: Re: Clutch Slave slurp

>...Once I get the clutch working, if I let up
>on the pedal too fast, I hear a high-pitched slurping sort of a sound
>coming from the general viscinity of the slave cylinder...

I have this slurping sound, too, but there is no evidence of fluid leaking
out.  If air *is* going into the slave, what is it displacing and where is
that displaced stuff going??  I'm about to rebuild the clutch slave; hope it
works.

Peter
'59 Series II

------------------------------

From: JSmallals@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:57:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: An alternator that fits????

Hello all,
Can anyone tell me the make and model number of an alternator that will fit
my existing generator brackets?  I have a 66IIA SWB with too many accessories
and the generator has to go!  I'm looking for an inexpensive unit that I can
pick up at the local parts shop.
thanks,
James Small
Denver, Colorado
66IIA SWB "Emmett"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 16:36:58 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: RE: K&iN, or K&out

>OOPS, meant to say the K&N is NOT as effective in filtering out finer
>particulates...mea culpa...
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:  Tackley, John
>         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 32 lines)]
>>>Rich Sloan
>>>D90

Rich,

        Have test info to prove you wrong (not from K&N), at least when
comparing an oil bath to a K&N.Tey are a lot closer when compared to paper.
We went though this on the coil spring digest at length and I got
interested and pulled up a lot of test data from various automotive
sources. In any case, I am participating in a test at a university which
will pit a K&N against a paper filter (arguably the best at filtering smal
particles by a small margin) in a SAE type test. I'll pass the results
along.
        Some time back, I did some dyno tests on Classics, Discos and
4.0SEs and pulled 4.5-5.5hp out of K&N. Last weekend, I ran some dyno tests
on a non-Rover project truck I'm doing for a magazine and pulled 5hp from a
diesel. As you said, the increase is upper end.

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: "Tom Dixon" <tomd@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Hub nut socket
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:32:59 +1200

Hello David.. RE: Hub nut removal. What I use is a large tube socket that
just happens to be the same size as the heating element that is used in the
hot water cylinders here in New Zealand. I phoned a electrical supplier to
get some information..... it is called a "tank spanner/element spanner" and
the price is nzd $49.75. Don't know if hot water element are the same size
as ours are but it is worth the look. please let me know how you get on?.
Cheers.... Tom Dixon
ZL2UPG
79 series 3 lwb (in many pieces)
tomd@clear.net.nz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: scooper@scooper.seanet.com (John & Sandy Cooper)
Subject: comparisons unequal

Setting off-roading aside...how many other 4x4 vehicles can run other
equipment off the gearbox as the Landrover can?  What happens when the paint
fades on the body of a steel rig (RUST).  How many rigs are so easily fixed
"roadside"?  How many 4x4`s come apart with a screwdriver and pair of pliers
letting you convert to a pick-up, soft-top, open style or whatever? 
Off-road ability is only one aspect of the land-rover.  Versatility,
durability and simplicity are the endearing factors which make this vehicle
famous.  Just my lowly opinion after having one in the family over 20 years.
John Cooper 1969 11a

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:15:36 -1000 (HST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@off-road.com>
Subject: FOR SALE 1970 II A  BASKET CASE (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jmdiakow <jmdiakow@mulberry.com>
Subject: FOR SALE 1970 II A  BASKET CASE

No frame
No front fenders
5000 kms. on new short block 
head redone with hardened valves, can use unleaded gas, new carb, new
distributor 
OFFERS ACCEPTED

Contact John Diakow @ jmdiakow @mulberry.com

------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:10:08 -1000
From: Wayne Haight <whaight@hawaii.edu>
Subject: Re: Hub nut socket

Aloha,

JC Whitless sells a socket for Land Rover hub nuts. I got mine for my
J**p before I sold it (the J**p) and bought my Land Rover. I looked in
their latest catalog and saw that the socket is listed for both
vehicles. Just did my rear oil seals and the socket fit fine. I don't
have the catalog in front of me but I think the price was around US
$20...
-- 
Wayne R. Haight
Senior Fisheries Research Specialist
Joint Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research
2570 Dole Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96822

------------------------------

From: rovah@agate.net
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:21:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Website Update...again...

Just a note to let you all know that I've updated the links page and added
a photo page of the recent Ray's Rocky Road '97 in New Hampshire.  Please
let me know if you find any broken links or have links you'd like me to add!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88",
1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO" 1963 Unimog 404.1-S "The Caterpiller"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:17:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Sending units

WRT the thread on fuel senders, I believe that '60-'80 or so Chrysler 
sending units use the same range as the Rover one, 30-300 ohms.  It might be 
possible to pick up a generic Chrysler unit from JC Whitless and still use 
the Rover guage.  Cheers

      *---"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                  | 
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
      |   "The oldest Rover-marque club in the Americas"   |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day) |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056    |
      |                                                    |
      *---1972 Series III 88"-----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:17:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: 50th Anniversary

For a while, thoughts on a 50th anniversary have been tossed about.  While 
there may be some plans in the works, here are my thoughts.  My contacts at 
LRNA tell me that nothing definite has been planned, only some unlikely (and 
rather far-fetched) ideas.

Anyway, I think it makes sense to have the event within a day's drive of the 
most number of Rovers.  That'll be the northeast.  While other areas of the 
US have concentrations of Rovers, the mid-Atlantic and New Engalns states 
and SE Canada have the most.

So, considering the three largest and most active clubs, Ottawa Valley, Bay 
State and ROAV, I looked at a map and pointed to a spot equidistant from 
each - southern "upstate" New York - the Finger Lakes area.

As to an event site, a ski area would make the greatest sense.  "Off" season 
(so they'd be hungry for any influx of cash/people), existing infrastructure 
(kitchens, bathrooms), parking/camping areas, a mountainous location with 
off-roading on-site or nearby, and likely an abundance of lodging, again 
off-season.

Looking at the map, Greek Peak near Cortland seemed to be the best choice. 
I've contacted them, and they are interested.  Their base lodge can 
accomodate 800-900 indoors (in case of inclement weather).  They also 
suggested late May or early June as the best weather (generally free of 
mossies and black flies).  While there may be some other plans in the works, 
we need to come to some kind of consensus and get rolling on this...PDQ.  If 
the three largest clubs in the NE get working on this, LRNA will most likely 
come aboard.

BTW, I picked up the T-shirts for the Mid-Atlantic Rally today.  *Outstanding!*

Cheers

      *---"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                  | 
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
      |   "The oldest Rover-marque club in the Americas"   |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day) |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056    |
      |                                                    |
      *---1972 Series III 88"-----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: scooper@scooper.seanet.com (John & Sandy Cooper)
Subject: Old numbers

What happens when someone parts out a rig.  Are the numbers gone forever?
Does this mean that all hope for a landrover to wear those numbers is gone.
It seems a shame to part-out a rig and lose the chance to keep one on the
road even if so many parts were changed that it is simply using the old
number.  Just wondering.
John Cooper 11a

------------------------------

From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:30:03 -0300

Hi all - you all really saw it as a besmirch-the-J article? I thought the J came 
out rather well overall, but that the criticisms were valid. Three bits that stuck 
with me were the 500 pounds less weight in a steel-bodied vehicle which isn't too 
subjective; 
the same week I got the mag I deliberately parked alongside one and saw that the top 
of the driver's head was about where my door handle is - again there is a real 
advantage to sitting higher and seeing over your bonnet ( guess who tipped his 90 over 
into a cliff and dented the roof 4 days after it arrived in a certain Caribbean 
island, thanks to the spare on the bonnet obscuring the view); lastly, I was left with 
the impression that the minimal-spec J had a superior rear diff setup, with the 
statement that, compared with the LR on a certain axle twister section, the J "drove 
though without difficulty".
To be honest I expected  more evidence of LR superiority, and was pleasantly surprised 
by the fairly impartial reporting. 
AS

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:56:45 -0400
From: Brian Cramer <defender@uscom.com>
Subject: Truck cab wanted

Hi All!!

I'm looking for a truck cab for my newly acquired Light Weight. I'd prefer
straight panels with a good headliner, but I'll consider any top offered. 

I'll be at the ROAV Rally Oct. 3-5 so I can pick up there, or at any
reasonable distance from the rally.

Cheers,

Brian Cramer
(888)434-4678 office
(609)665-4451 office fax
(609)273-9708 home
'94 D90 (#1251)
'90 RR County
'70 IIa Lightweight

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:43:32 -0700
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@island.net>
Subject: Re: comparisons unequal

John & Sandy Cooper wrote:

> How many 4x4`s come apart with a screwdriver and pair of pliers...

I've heard you can take a Land Cruiser apart with a good slap :-0

Cheers, Greg

------------------------------

From: JSmallals@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:21:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: FOR SALE 1970 II A  BASKET CASE (fwd)

Where are you located...does it have a safari top? trim? jumpseats?
J.S.
Denver, Colorado
66IIA SWB "Emmett"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:16:41 -0700
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Old numbers

> What happens when someone parts out a rig.  Are the numbers gone forever?

Which number (vehicle ID #, licence plate...)? Which country?

cheers

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:36:52 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Imports from UK to Canada?

>  No problem if over 15 yrs old, no restrictive reg's.

What if your an American citizen? At one point my father and I were
considering importing a Camel Trophy 110 into Canada and then driving it
across the border into the US.  

I called Canadian Customes and they told me that since I wasn't a
Canadian citizen there was no vehicle importation restrictions, but I
never got anythingg in writing.  

After several hundred dollars in telephone calls, we thought it was too
much of a risk.  We didn't want to loose $25k.

Just curious.

David Glaser

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:47:52 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article

I think Road & Track said it best in an article last year:
"When we were driving around in the Jeep, everytime we saw a Land Rover,
we couldn't help but feel a touch of envy."

Both vehicles have their strong points and flaws.  Personaly i think the
Land Rover is the better vehicle (thats why I drive one!).  

David Glaser

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: K&iN, or K&out
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 07:42:00 +0200 (MET DST)

| I'm curious to know how many list members are running their trucks with 
| K&N air filters. I just got one and to tell the truth, I haven't really 
| noticed all that much difference.
Same experience on my old 2.5l oilburner. To be fair, I didn't expect any 
change. But at least the K&N has paid off after 25.000km since it costs
about as much as 2.5 paper filters for my 110. That's about the milage
I do in 1 1/2 years.

| So I'm wondering if I 
| shouldn't just put the OEM back in there and leave well enough alone.
Why?

cu,
Franz
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Magnecor leads
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:25:23 +0930 (CST)

I hate to sound like an advert but is everybody aware of magnecor's 35% 
discount offer for Landrover plug leads ?  

see http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/OFFERS.HTM  for details.

Anyone prepared to comment as to whether these things are really as good 
as Magnecor claim...  Jim Allen any comment re 7mm 8mm or 8.5 for stock 
V8 ? 

 Please CC  to me in case I dont check out the web site soon

Cheers

 -- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 07:45:15    
From: Steve Mace <steve@solwise.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: K&iN, or K&out 

--- On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:50:31 -0400 (EDT)  12/4/95 <rsloan@titan.liunet.edu> wrote:

>I'm curious to know how many list members are running their trucks with 
>K&N air filters. I just got one and to tell the truth, I haven't really 
>noticed all that much difference. I've heard many people claim you get 
>extra HP and better mileage, but I seem to be getting pretty much the 
>same now as when I had the original in there. So I'm wondering if I 
>shouldn't just put the OEM back in there and leave well enough alone.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
>Rich Sloan
>D90

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------
Tried one on my LtWt and I was much unimpressed and I put the standard filter back on 6 months later!

1972 SIII LtWt
1993 D90
-------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.demon.co.uk
www: http://www.demon.co.uk/solwise/
Tel: +44 1482 473899
Fax: +44 1482 472245
Date: 25/09/97
Time: 07:45:15
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Clutch Slave or Master Cylinder?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 9:28:09 BST

> First off, bleed the silly thing and see if that creates an immediate
> improvement.
> If it does then it's definitely an air leak.
> Before you go swapping cylinders, check the flex-line and its connections
> for leaks, and check for rust pinholes in the steel line.
> Are you losing fluid? if not, then I'd suspect a bogus clutch master.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> rebuilding both the master and slave (and swapping the flex line) might be
> good insurance...

That was my experience this summer. Replaced the slave (which overnight
had mysteriously dumped the fluid onto the drive, but then drove relatively
okay for 2 weeks); then a month later the master started leaking!!

6 months previously, the clutch plates were replaced (professionally), so
all I've got that's original is the clutch hose, and the upper pipe!!
There's a fair chance your pipes are seized, so you might want to buy
replacements in advance...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:35:16 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article

>The latest LROi has been out about a week over here. Loads on the Freeloader
>- the UK motor press really love it. Some mil. stuff too (including the
>Wolf), but a continued lack of workshop stuff.

Thanks,Richard,that's answered an unasked question.My b*****d newsagent
hasnt delivered mine yet,and I had to go and collect the last issue of
LRW as well.They keep wittering something about it being the fault of
W.H.Smith(wholesale)Ltd.Change of newsagent due,I think.After 30 years.
Mind you it *has* just changed hands.
As for Freeloader,I noticed Parrot going all gooey over it.But the
shots of the engine/drivetrain in LRW prompted me to think it doesnt
look at *all* strong.Wonder what will happen the first time someone
hooks up a horsebox.........
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:40:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Landy vs Eugene the Jeep

Guess it's my turn...

I haven't read the article in LROI yet, BUT...

I do have a 1967 (?) Car and Driver, in which they did a comparison between
A) J**p Commando (the last REAL J**p), B) the Ford Bronco, C) Intl. Scout, D)
Toyota Land Cruiser, and last but not least, E) the Land Rover 109 Station
Wagon, with the 6cyl engine! Talk about an unfair advantage against the Land
Rover!

Alas - on pavement, the others ruled in terms of performance, 0-60mph,
braking, mileage, etc., until they went off-road. Sure enough, the Land Rover
ended up not only blowing the others away, but it even had to pull ALL of
them out of the sand on the beach they were using for the test! They didn't
even deflate it's tires for the sand! The article was written in a neutral
manner, too. (as in, no favoritism was shown in the text leading up to the
test)

Also, for those of you on AOL, check out (purely for laughs) the J**p owners'
board, in the automotive section - never before, have I seen more postings
about recalls, "funny" sounding engines when new (turned out to be bad
crankshafts), poor dashboards/instrumentation, trannys', transfer cases,
etc., ANYWHERE!

...And people say that British cars are bad.

Charles

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: LROI J**p vs LR article
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 9:46:22 BST

> >The latest LROi has been out about a week over here. Loads on the Freeloader
> >- the UK motor press really love it. Some mil. stuff too (including the
> >Wolf), but a continued lack of workshop stuff.
> Thanks,Richard,that's answered an unasked question.My b*****d newsagent
> hasnt delivered mine yet,and I had to go and collect the last issue of
> LRW as well.They keep wittering something about it being the fault of
> W.H.Smith(wholesale)Ltd.Change of newsagent due,I think.After 30 years.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth

Yep, mine's a postal subscription. I doubt I'll be renewing it. Probably
switch to buying it occasionally (like I do with LRW).

Oh, there's an article about Fred Dibner too. I don't think he's an internal
combustion man - tales of driving his 88" with no oil for 6 months - he thought
it sounded a bit like a diesel...

Freeloader:
Top Gear showed it in passing, wondered if it would be a "Disintegrating
Discovery". No doubt there'll be a full review later in the series.

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:09:36 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: comparisons unequal

>Off-road ability is only one aspect of the land-rover.  Versatility,
>durability and simplicity are the endearing factors which make this vehicle
>famous.  Just my lowly opinion after having one in the family over 20 years.
>John Cooper 1969 11a
Hear,hear John!People do tend to forget that the vehicles were intended
as *farming* aids.And for a vehicle thus designed to become a top SUV
in later life is no mean achievement,IMO.And its early days for me as yet.
I've only had mine 10 years.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

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