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msg | Sender | lines | Subject |
1 | twakeman@scruznet.com (T | 19 | Re: Portland British Show |
2 | Frans Diepstraten [frd@w | 67 | Trip report (of visit to dealer) |
3 | Adrian Redmond [channel6 | 102 | Re: Dutch doubts - (was: Trip report (of visit to dealer)) |
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 06:50:29 -0700 From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman) Subject: Re: Portland British Show At 8:54 AM 8/22/97 -0700, John & Sandy Cooper wrote: ; ;flyer this year and am hoping to attend the show will the ol-rover. ;Thanks, John Cooper 1969 11a People start showing up late Friday afternoon (29 aug) & setting up camp in Land Rover city. Car show is Sat (30 Aug). Swap meet, and Land Rover owner pancake breakfast is Sunday (31 Aug). TeriAnn Wakeman I will be away on a Land Rover photo expidition between Aug 23 and Nov 4. I will not be on the net during that time. ------------------------------[ <- Message 2 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 970824 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:07:43 -0700 From: Frans Diepstraten <frd@wirehub.nl> Subject: Trip report (of visit to dealer) Hi all, As an introductory note I can say I am a wannabe Land Rover owner. I'm scouting for a Series IIa (for nostalgic reasons, Series III were made even in the previous decade (no offense attended to SIII owners!). Once in driving condition the car would be mainly used to increase the fun we have on our trips to Belgium. I have my uncles (not so old) Landcruiser available there, but I'm not to keen on taking somebody elses car into the rough. Apart from that I would serve as an occasional commuter car, whenever the wife wants to be mobile (she can have the station, _I_ will take the Landy!). But mostly, I'd enjoy the job of fixing it up. I know of only two dealers in the Netherlands who regularly have Land Rovers in stock (Knook's was discussed earlier, as a supplier of mainly ex-army vehicles). Bonekamp Trading in Heemskerk (NL) is where I went last Friday. I took a colleague who has restored a Triumph Spitfire. He would be a far better judge of the amount of work a car would take than I would. Upon arrival I explained what I was looking for an we were taken to a shed which contained Land Rovers in various states of decay (a series I, II,IIa diesel and petrol, two III's). OK, so despite the "couple of IIa's" that had been promised on the phone there was only one, but apparently he had sold "a couple" on Thursday. This dealer gets all his derelict Rovers from Switzerland (which could be good since they do not use salt to keep the roads clean in winter). The basic price for this vehicle was NLG 4250,- (about 2000$). The engine was in running condition (claimed, not proven by the dealer) but the frame needed "some" work. Two outriggers and front and back part needed renewal. In fact that leaves only the central part of the frame OK. The dash board looked pretty authentic, slide windows wouldn't slide, not too much damage to the exterior (if you disregard the markings of the St. Gallen Rettungsdienst (equivalent of 911 service of a Swiss ski resort). What puzzled me most though was the seats, or rather the lack of them. This was the same in almost all his cars. I still puzzling about where all those seats went. Maybe the mice had a ball with them while these cars were waiting to be picked up, I don't know. I haven't really checked the rest of the car (I was not rally dressed for the occassion, coming straight from an appointment with a client) but I suspect a couple of other things were in desparate need for replacement. Then this guys started his sales talk. Don't worry about the rusted frame, we'll fix it for you. We'll fix the frame, but then the car will cost 7000 NLG (3500$). We'll replace other broken parts, put on a roof of your choice, put in some seats, and it will only cost 9000 NLG (4500$). We'll even put it through the approval circus for you and put in a gas tank, and then you'll have a mighty fine car for 13,500 NLG (6750$). What do you say? Well, by that time I wasn't saying very much anymore. I was getting the distinct feeling of being robbed and I didn't like the idea. The dealer was getting more cars in later this week, and I'm contemplating about going back. I'm probably not comletely fair towards him. Many of my dismal feelings may stem from the fact that I have no experience whatsoever in used cars trade. The way the 1000$ bills were added to the tab put up the hairs in the back of my neck though. Anyway, thanks for listening. I'm still looking for a nice IIa to work on. To the Dutchmen out there (and maybe Belgians and Germans: does anyone have experiences with this particular dealer? what about the price for the car, is then order of magnitude OK? BTW, this was the cheapest car. All other cars needed work on the frame and costed from 5500 NLG (2750$) upward. And none of them had seats! Frans ------------------------------[ <- Message 3 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 970824 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 13:02:39 +0200 From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> Subject: Re: Dutch doubts - (was: Trip report (of visit to dealer)) [digester: Removing section of: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------88492BCC9A1B2F11B6B36A35" ] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Frans, Not that I know the dealers in your part of the world, but here's my pennyworth of advice. If you are looking at a wreck of a car, then buy it as a wreck, and do the work yourself. The price - think of a number, then double it to take account of the unforseen. If the dealer is showing you a wreck, but offering a reconditioned vehicle - then ask to see a reconditioned vehicle. I don't know about Holland, but here in Denmark we have a few land Rover dealers who do this sort of work, and you can see the vehicle in their lot, before you decide to buy. Chances are, if the only showroom he has is a barn full of rusted chassis and eroded aluminium, then their reconditioning operation is not that big, and their experience may be similarly limited. On the other hand, there are plenty of conscientious dealers and private land rover owners who do this work themselves, then sell the vehicle - whether it costs more or less I don't know, but at least you get to see the wares before you decide to buy. If you do decide to buy in the way this guy proposes, get an agreement in writing covering - what work will be done, what parts will be replaced, what standard the vehicle must satisfy, and what price and delæivery date. Add a clause that if the price rises or the delivery date is exceeded, then you are free to take your business elswhere, and it does not cost you anything. Make it a condition that the vehicle passes the dutch inspection tests. A recon land rover may be fully reconned, with new chassis parts and a rebuilt engine, or it may be a quick green paint job which hides a multitude of sins. My advice is not to worry about the appearance, go for the mechanical standard, and the main worries are - Chassis and firewall Engine Gear-box clutch and transmission Steering and front ball joints If these parts are ok, working and not due for a major rebuild again, then you have a good car, and everything else can be done in your own workshop or driveway, one bit at a time. A damaged body cvan be rebuilt or bought as scrap fom another truck (or even bought as new). Most problems can be solved with a sheet of aluminium, a set of tin shears a pop-riveter, and a lick of paint on a sunday afternoon. The appearance costs more in work than parts - the mechanicis costs in both, and you can't use the vehicle while your having the job done. Talk to other LR owners in Holland, any LRO with a single rebuild's experience will tell you where the problems lie and what to look for. And I wouldn't rule out a Series III - I have three of them (1972, 1976, 1979) and they are a lot of fun. Good luck. -- Adrian Redmond --------------------------------------------------- CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK (Adrian Redmond) Foerlevvej 6 Mesing DK-8660 Skanderborg Denmark --------------------------------------------------- telephone (office) +45 86 57 22 66 telephone (home) +45 86 57 22 64 telefacsimile / data +45 86 57 24 46 mobile GSM (EFP unit) +45 40 74 75 64 mobile GSM (admin) +45 40 54 22 66 mobile NMT +45 30 86 75 66 e-mail channel6@post2.tele.dk HoTMaiL (www.e-mail) channel6denmark@hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------- --------------88492BCC9A1B2F11B6B36A35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Adrian Redmond Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Adrian Redmond n: Redmond;Adrian org: Channel 6 Television / Denmark adr: Foerlevvej 6;;Mesing;Skanderborg;Jutland;DK-8660;Denmark email;internet: channel6@post2.tele.dk title: Head of production tel;work: +45 86 57 22 66 tel;fax: +45 86 57 24 46 tel;home: +45 86 57 22 64 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE end: vcard --------------88492BCC9A1B2F11B6B36A35-- ------------------------------[ <- Message 4 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 970824 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]
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