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1 twakeman@scruznet.com (T19Re: Portland British Show
2 Frans Diepstraten [frd@w67Trip report (of visit to dealer)
3 Adrian Redmond [channel6102Re: Dutch doubts - (was: Trip report (of visit to dealer))


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Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 06:50:29 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Portland British Show

At  8:54 AM 8/22/97 -0700, John & Sandy Cooper wrote:
;

;flyer this year and am hoping to attend the show will the ol-rover.
;Thanks, John Cooper 1969 11a

People start showing up late Friday afternoon (29 aug) & setting up camp in
Land Rover city.  Car show is Sat (30 Aug).  Swap meet, and Land Rover
owner pancake breakfast is Sunday (31 Aug).

TeriAnn Wakeman

I will be away on a Land Rover photo expidition between Aug 23 and Nov 4.
I will not be on the net during that time.

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Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:07:43 -0700
From: Frans Diepstraten <frd@wirehub.nl>
Subject: Trip report (of visit to dealer)

Hi all,

As an introductory note I can say I am a wannabe Land Rover owner. I'm 
scouting for a Series IIa (for nostalgic reasons, Series III were made even 
in the previous decade (no offense attended to SIII owners!). Once in driving 
condition the car would be mainly used to increase the fun we have on our 
trips to Belgium. I have my uncles (not so old) Landcruiser available there, 
but I'm not to keen on taking somebody elses car into the rough. Apart from 
that I would serve as an occasional commuter car, whenever the wife wants to 
be mobile (she can have the station, _I_ will take the Landy!). But mostly, 
I'd enjoy the job of fixing it up.

I know of only two dealers in the Netherlands who regularly have Land Rovers 
in stock (Knook's was discussed earlier, as a supplier of mainly ex-army 
vehicles). Bonekamp Trading in Heemskerk (NL) is where I went last Friday. I 
took a colleague who has restored a Triumph Spitfire. He would be a far 
better judge of the amount of work a car would take than I would.

Upon arrival I explained what I was looking for an we were taken to a shed 
which contained Land Rovers in various states of decay (a series I, II,IIa 
diesel and petrol, two III's). OK, so despite the "couple of IIa's" that had 
been promised on the phone there was only one, but apparently he had sold "a 
couple" on Thursday. This dealer gets all his derelict Rovers from 
Switzerland (which could be good since they do not use salt to keep the roads 
clean in winter). The basic price for this vehicle was NLG 4250,- (about 
2000$). The engine was in running condition (claimed, not proven by the 
dealer) but the frame needed "some" work. Two outriggers and front and back 
part needed renewal. In fact that leaves only the central part of the frame 
OK. The dash board looked pretty authentic, slide windows wouldn't slide, not 
too much damage to the exterior (if you disregard the markings of the St. 
Gallen Rettungsdienst (equivalent of 911 service of a Swiss ski resort). What 
puzzled me most though was the seats, or rather the lack of them. This was 
the same in almost all his cars. I still puzzling about where all those seats 
went. Maybe the mice had a ball with them while these cars were waiting to be 
picked up, I don't know. I haven't really checked the rest of the car (I was 
not rally dressed for the occassion, coming straight from an appointment with 
a client) but I suspect a couple of other things were in desparate need for 
replacement.

Then this guys started his sales talk. Don't worry about the rusted frame, 
we'll fix it for you. We'll fix the frame, but then the car will cost 7000 
NLG (3500$). We'll replace other broken parts, put on a roof of your choice, 
put in some seats, and it will only cost 9000 NLG (4500$). We'll even put it 
through the approval circus for you and put in a gas tank, and then you'll 
have a mighty fine car for 13,500 NLG (6750$). What do you say? Well, by that 
time I wasn't saying very much anymore. I was getting the distinct feeling of 
being robbed and I didn't like the idea.

The dealer was getting more cars in later this week, and I'm contemplating 
about going back. I'm probably not comletely fair towards him. Many of my 
dismal feelings may stem from the fact that I have no experience whatsoever 
in used cars trade. The way the 1000$ bills were added to the tab put up the 
hairs in the back of my neck though.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I'm still looking for a nice IIa to work on. To 
the Dutchmen out there (and maybe Belgians and Germans: does anyone have 
experiences with this particular dealer? what about the price for the car, is 
then order of magnitude OK? BTW, this was the cheapest car. All other cars 
needed work on the frame and costed from 5500 NLG (2750$) upward. And none of 
them had seats!

Frans

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Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 13:02:39 +0200
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Dutch doubts - (was: Trip report (of visit to dealer))
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Hi Frans,

Not that I know the dealers in your part of the world, but here's my
pennyworth of advice.

If you are looking at a wreck of a car, then buy it as a wreck, and do
the work yourself. The price - think of a number, then double it to take
account of the unforseen.

If the dealer is showing you a wreck, but offering a reconditioned
vehicle - then ask to see a reconditioned vehicle. I don't know about
Holland, but here in Denmark we have a few land Rover dealers who do
this sort of work, and you can see the vehicle in their lot, before you
decide to buy. Chances are, if the only showroom he has is a barn full
of rusted chassis and eroded aluminium, then their reconditioning
operation is not that big, and their experience may be similarly
limited.

On the other hand, there are plenty of conscientious dealers and private
land rover owners who do this work themselves, then sell the vehicle -
whether it costs more or less I don't know, but at least you get to see
the wares before you decide to buy.

If you do decide to buy in the way this guy proposes, get an agreement
in writing covering - what work will be done, what parts will be
replaced, what standard the vehicle must satisfy, and what price and
delæivery date. Add a clause that if the price rises or the delivery
date is exceeded, then you are free to take your business elswhere, and
it does not cost you anything. Make it a condition that the vehicle
passes the dutch inspection tests.

A recon land rover may be fully reconned, with new chassis parts and a
rebuilt engine, or it may be a quick green paint job which hides a
multitude of sins. My advice is not to worry about the appearance, go
for the mechanical standard, and the main worries are -

Chassis and firewall
Engine
Gear-box clutch and transmission
Steering and front ball joints

If these parts are ok, working and not due for a major rebuild again,
then you have a good car, and everything else can be done in your own
workshop or driveway, one bit at a time. A damaged body cvan be rebuilt
or bought as scrap fom another truck (or even bought as new). Most
problems can be solved with a sheet of aluminium, a set of tin shears
a pop-riveter, and a lick of paint on a sunday afternoon.

The appearance costs more in work than parts - the mechanicis costs in
both, and you can't use the vehicle while your having the job done.

Talk to other LR owners in Holland, any LRO with a single rebuild's
experience will tell you where the problems lie and what to look for.

And I wouldn't rule out a Series III - I have three of them (1972, 1976,
1979) and they are a lot of fun.

Good luck.

-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
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Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
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