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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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msgSender linesSubject
1 Paul Oxley [paul@adventu32Re: Bus tyres
2 Mike_Morgan@Triplex-Lloy39Re: Bus tyres
3 u940470@studbo.hit.no (B15GMC 6,5 Turbo in 110?
4 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo38Re: Bus tyres
5 "jean gruneberg" [grunbe37Re: BMW motor in LR
6 NADdMD@aol.com 17Re: Remove those bolts!
7 NADdMD@aol.com 28Re: Torquing head bolts
8 "Davies, Scott" [sdavies38RE: GMC 6,5 Turbo in 110?
9 Brian Tuffs [btuffs@norc14S.Alberta
10 wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter d35SII engines
11 "Clinton D. Coates" [Cli15personal to Paul Wakefield
12 "Spencer K. C. Norcross"20Washington DC to Ottawa!!!
13 "Clinton D. Coates" [Cli26F-heads (were talking motors here!)
14 "Tackley, John" [jtackle19tailgate wanted...
15 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o15Re: tailgate wanted...
16 "Tackley, John" [jtackle27RE: tailgate wanted...
17 Chip Mautz [cmautz@minds29Cali Car Insurance
18 paarch@ix.netcom.com (Pa26Re: Engine Swap
19 John Putnam [jdputnam@pa96RE: Beware - Minimal LR content
20 Michael Carradine [cs@cr18Re: Cali Car Insurance
21 Norm Lewis [norm@kpco.co26Yellow Land-Rovers
22 David Cockey [dcockey@ti20Re: Torquing head bolts
23 robot1@juno.com (Mark E 13[not specified]
24 Norm Lewis [norm@kpco.co13Motor swaps
25 David Cockey [dcockey@ti28Re: SII engines
26 David Cockey [dcockey@ti47Still a Land Rover?
27 frank01@postoffice.ptd.n17Re: catalog sighting
28 John Cassidy [rovah@agat22Downeast Land Rover Club and Downeast Rally
29 RykRover@aol.com 133.9 engines
30 rover@pinn.net (Alexande25Bus Tyres
31 Hank Rutherford [ruthrfr17Engine Transplants
32 Land_Rovers@learnlink.em16Re: Yellow Rover?
33 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr26Re: Engine Swap
34 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns48Re: Torquing head bolts
35 Michael Slade [slade@ima19Re: Yellow Land-Rovers
36 David Cockey [dcockey@ti22Re: Torquing head bolts
37 Steve Stoneham [stoneham10Dual gauge details
38 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr19Re: catalog sighting
39 "Joost Kramer" [j.kramer16Re: tailgate wanted...


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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:58:39 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: Bus tyres

Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
> 8-ply tyres on a Rover:

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> least...
>                               ajr

Hey are you a sissy or something?

What's with this bad-mouthing spinal compression? Spinal compression is
just natures way of telling you you're going too fast ;~/ (ouch!)

Seriously, 8 ply is the only thing that'll keep out the camel thorns (up
to 4 inches long and thick as a pencil at the base!) and not be sliced
to shreds by the rocks.

Sure they kick up a helluva racket, and bump and jar you within a
smidgen of detaching your retina, but what the heck... Cowboys don't cry
(definately not in front of their horses).
 
Regards

Paul (6-ply-is-for-sissies) Oxley 
"into Africa adventures" The African Adventure-travel Webzine
http://www.adventures.co.za
"AfricanAdrenalin" Sign up for adventure here...
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za & http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

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From: Mike_Morgan@Triplex-Lloyd.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:03:14 +0100
Subject: Re: Bus tyres

Actually To:
cc:       lro @ playground.sun.com, uk-lro @ playground.sun.com
bcc:
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
                                 Re: Bus tyres                             
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

The Higher the Ply rating on Cross-Ply tyres, the more layers of rubber in
the construction of the tyre.  This makes the tyre more durable, but
drastically reduces the ability of the tyre to flex.  This gives a very
hard ride and poor handling as the tyre tends to bounce on an effectively
reduced road contact area.  Radial tyres are constructed using a steel
matting which has a high degree of flexibility.  This is why they seem to
be flat compared to a Cross-ply, despite having the same pressure.  This
increased flexibility helps to keep the tyre in contact with the road for
longer over a larger effective contact area - thus giving a safer and more
comfortable ride.

Hope this helps explain the difference between the tyres.

SATS come in a 6 or 8 Ply rating.  The 8 ply is too strong because the
weight of the Land Rover is not enough to deform the tyre under load.  The
result is that the tyre will sit on top of the stone rather than smother it
and grip.  I only use 6 ply at low pressure as a result off-road.

I have fitted 31X10.50X15 Colway MT to my Range Rover which are out
performing the SATS in every test so far.  The only test left is Clay, but
I think this will be an even result.  They also handle well at speed on the
road because they are radial!

The tyre debate will continue no doubt.

Mike

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:57:45 +0200
From: u940470@studbo.hit.no (Bengt M Tovslid)
Subject: GMC 6,5 Turbo in 110?

Hello!

Have anyone experience with GMC 6,5 turbo or 6,2 Na in LR 110?
I want to put in a diesel in my 1988 mod. 110. 

Were can I do it in UK,  and what will it cost?

Best regards

Bengt M. Tovslid

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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 07:13:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Bus tyres

Paul Oxley faults my self-preservation skills:
>Hey are you a sissy or something?
>What's with this bad-mouthing spinal compression? Spinal compression is
>just natures way of telling you you're going too fast ;~/ (ouch!)

Re: Sissy: Yes, as a matter of fact. Getting there alive is more than half
the fun.....8*)
>Seriously, 8 ply is the only thing that'll keep out the camel thorns (up
>to 4 inches long and thick as a pencil at the base!) and not be sliced
>to shreds by the rocks.

And you live in this country voluntarily? 8*)

With that type of an item as a typical trail hazard (basically a natural
caltrop) it's no wonder you run 8 or 10-ply. It's completely
understandable.

My objection to them is as a longevity measure on a vehicle used half-time
or more on the road. There, you'll never make it off-road without being
driven insane by the jarring.

I thought about them when I bought the radials Mr. Churchill's running on
right now. They're 8-ply tread, 6-ply sidewalls, and entirely stiff enough
with the military springs some stupid previous owner put on the old boy.
10-plies with the springs would have been too much.
>Sure they kick up a helluva racket, and bump and jar you within a
>smidgen of detaching your retina, but what the heck... Cowboys don't cry
>(definately not in front of their horses).

Tires and roads like this explain why Aussies drink so much.....8*)

          aj"No thank'ee - New England's wild enough for me!"r

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From: "jean gruneberg" <grunberg@iafrica.com>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:07:50 +0200
Subject: Re: BMW motor in LR

Hi all

To let you know that in South Africa, LR are fitting the 2.8 straight 
6 in defenders only at this point.  Apparently there are plans for 
the Disco.

> ONLY BE VERY EXPENSIVE BUT LESS POWERFULL.
The motor has had some reprofiling done to suit off road conditions, 
however produces max torque at about 4000 rpm.  That said, at 1500 
rpm produces more torque that max output from the 3.5 and 3.9.  

I don't particularly like the exhaust set up with 2x 3 into 1 
systems, with one pipe going each side of the front propshaft.  Bit 
of a kludge, perhaps as this is a prototype set up will change later. 
 The part that really irritated was that BM could not see there way 
into changing the engine cover from BMW logo to LR logo...really 
sucked.

Cheers
Jean
_______________________________________________________
Jean Andre Gruneberg

P.O.Box 201010  Durban North  4016  South Africa 
e-mail grunberg@iafrica.com  cell-ph 082 551 8433    

'The one with the serene glazed look of the hopelessly clueless in his eyes'

Every normal person must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:08:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Remove those bolts!

In a message dated 97-05-21 22:39:20 EDT, you write:

<< if said item were on the bench instead of in your line of stereophonic
 sight.  >>

I believe LSD may be one of the only ways to have stereophonic vision.  I
usually (unless punched in the eye or drunk) have stereoscopic vision.
  Likewise, although rare in LR owners, most people have stereophonic
hearing. :)

Nate

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:21:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

In a message dated 97-05-22 07:49:08 EDT, you write:

<< The reason for backing 
 them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's 
 moving, not from a standstill.  >>

Hi Con,

I thought the reason to loosen a 1/4 turn (all bolts) then retighten in order
to to ensure even torque over all the bolts.  (Even though the head and block
are flat, the gasket can lead to unevenness in the actual torque).   I'm not
sure I totally understand why retorquing the bolts will give a "truer" torque
reading than the original, the bolts were moving both the first time they
were tightened and during the re-torque.  Am I missing something here?

(This is more than academic, the block and head from my SIII project come
home in the next 2 weeks).

Confused,

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

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From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: GMC 6,5 Turbo in 110?
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 13:45:00 PDT

There's a company which advertises in LROI which can do this for you, 
Samurai Motor Components Ltd Tel 01297 552234.

Reports I've seen seem to suggest it's difficult to keep it cool. I'd like 
to have the money to give it a try; 30mpg and 160BHP sounds good.

Price for the 6.2 stripped,inspected, rebuilt, painted, run tested and 
guaranteed 1900 UKP.

Brand new 6.5 with conversion kit 3250 UKP

Brand new 6.5 turbo with conversion kit 3850 UKP

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT
 ----------
From: u940470
Subject: GMC 6,5 Turbo in 110?
Date: 22 May 1997 12:57

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

Hello!

Have anyone experience with GMC 6,5 turbo or 6,2 Na in LR 110?
I want to put in a diesel in my 1988 mod. 110.

Were can I do it in UK,  and what will it cost?

Best regards

Bengt M. Tovslid

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From: Brian Tuffs <btuffs@norcen.com>
Subject: S.Alberta
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:06:12 -0600

	For anyone in the Calgary/S.Alberta area there will be a L/Rover meet
at Ivor Wilds place in Sundrie this coming Sat. (24th) at around noon.
There is a group of people coming down from Wainwright to attend this
meet. There will be the opportunity for both overnight and day offroad
trips.
	For more info. please contact: Brian Tuffs (403) 243-5415 (H)
						(403) 231-0631 (W)
or email btuffs@norcen.com

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:13:29 +0200
From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal)
Subject: SII engines

Hi Dave

Good info r.e. the 1519 being 1959 SII. Where did you find this info? I have
engine #151911190 and gearbox #151911439 (with 151800232 as spare), and I
was wondering if the year of manufacture etc would be coded in there as it
is for the chassis (162900770, I *think*, the marks were fairly indistinct
(had to sandblast to find them, and they're gone now under the galvanising))

Would all 1519 numbers signify 1959? I have axles 151903793 and 151xx5291,
what's interesting to me is the large difference in numbers between all the
different parts, not at all like a concourse Porsche 356 :-) These LRs were
built before LR started shipping CKD kits to .za, I believe, but the LR
records for 1629xxxxx doesn't go all the way up to 770. Maybe it's 170, or
110, and I wondered if I can tell from the other numbers.

Anybody out there have a copy of the records for the numbers around 162900100?

Wouter

--
Wouter de Waal ZS1KE     GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W
Argo 505 / FT200       N+++>++ !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t
Amateur Homebrewer 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*)
                                                      Perseverance my son,
'72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine                        it's a   Land/
Series II LR SW - see http://www.aztec.co.za/users/wrm            /Rover

"All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains
a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without
understanding that the journeying is a separate thing."  --  Bob Hoover

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:09:00 -0700
From: "Clinton D. Coates" <Clinton_Coates@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: personal to Paul Wakefield

Thanks for the forward!

Hi Paul,

I sent this several days ago and it was bounced by MD.

If nothing else, we can use this to BS any nosey quiestions in the
future!

Clinton

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:10:56 -0500
From: "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <spencern@acr.org>
Subject: Washington DC to Ottawa!!! 

Who from the DC area is planning to go to the OVLR Birthday Party?
Dave Bobeck and are attempting to make some travel plans!

e-mail me directly, either here, at work <spencern@acr.org> or at home 
<spenny@aol.com> and we can coordinate plans.

rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1969 SWB, The Wayback Machine
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

           The road to hell is paved with unbought stuffed dogs.
                                              -Bill Gorton

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:28:01 -0700
From: "Clinton D. Coates" <Clinton_Coates@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: F-heads (were talking motors here!)

Granville wrote:

> Now that I actually typed "2-liter F-head lump" I'm reminded of a 
> fairly
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 8 lines)]
> up, so I'm told, as it was based upon the same block as the F-head 
> engine.

You would need the 6 cyl bell housing, wouldn't you?  Also, the motor 
would be a fairly high revving engine that might be unsuitable for low 
torque mud plugging applications?  Maybe someone from the UK has done 
this.

Too bad someone hasnt come up with a nice modern efficient cross-flow 
head to bolt onto the standard 2.25/2.5 lump.

Maybe what we need to do on those long road trips is carry a small 
trailer with a HIAB and a spare motor.  Plonk in the BMW motor for the 
trip to the boonies, then swap it for the 2.25 when you get there....

Clinton

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: tailgate wanted...
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:24:21 -0400

A friend requested I ask if any LROs out there have a tailgate (bottom 
only) they could part with.  RN wants $150 for a used one, which is a 
bit much for him.  Any condition that still swings is fine, and he'll 
pay shipping.  He's restoring a 140 year old house and is using his 
'66 IIA 88 to haul off the waste.  He's removed the rear safari door 
and the roof side glass and the door tops, and likes the breeze but is 
complaining about the 90wt on the dash that's getting sucked in the 
rear door opening when running on the highway.  The tailgate will help 
some (and keep the trash in).  Short of pluggin the leaks (oh, 
sure...no problem, it's only a Land Rover) anybody solved this 
problem?  I had the first suggestion...carry 2 big sheep in the 
back...
E-mail me on the tailgate, thank ya kindly...yesssir...mmmhmmm.

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 15:45:51 EST
Subject: Re: tailgate wanted...

A friend requested I ask if any LROs out there have a tailgate (bottom 
only) they could part with.  RN wants $150 for a used one, which is a 
bit much for him.  Any condition that still swings is fine, and he'll 
pay shipping. 

Hey that ain't bad, 100 bucks is the least I'd sell one for...

DaveB
that's what mine was...

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: tailgate wanted...
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:00:00 -0400

Yeah, I know, but I promised him I'd at least ask.
Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From:	dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org [SMTP:dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org]
Sent:	Thursday, May 22, 1997 4:46 PM
To:	Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
Subject:	Re: tailgate wanted...

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

A friend requested I ask if any LROs out there have a tailgate (bottom 
only) they could part with.  RN wants $150 for a used one, which is a 
bit much for him.  Any condition that still swings is fine, and he'll 
pay shipping. 

Hey that ain't bad, 100 bucks is the least I'd sell one for...

DaveB
that's what mine was...

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From: Chip Mautz <cmautz@mindspring.com>
Subject: Cali Car Insurance
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:11:34 -0400

>Michael Carradine wrote:

>For example, for a $7500 automobile in litigious California, the rate
 >for me is $74 !!
> Regards,                   Probably a special rate for LROA members ;)

wow - is that per month?? If so, that's more than I pay for my '94 Jeep =
Cherokee 4x4
here in Atlanta!

Weekend or Third Car insurance in Georgia was only 20-30 dollars a month =
for a '71 Triumph Spitfire that I owned while in high school...  of =
course, I had a '79 Honda Civic hatchback my daily...  :)

See ya

Chip

Chip Mautz
Greenbrier & Russel, Inc.
Consulting, Software & Education

"And Now, For Something Completely Different..."

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:05:38 +0100
From: paarch@ix.netcom.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: Engine Swap

Hear, hear,
I fully agree with Roger. With the two litre motor in my 88", I will either
have to give myself an extra day or two to meet anyone on any trips, or
remove the prop-shafts and flat tow it behind  a motorhome to our
destination. I am seriously thinking about Scotty's conversion as soon as
my finances are sorted out(after the Rangie is sold)
Paul
>But, often the best tool for the job is what counts; making the hard parts
>as easy as possible, so as to enjoy the results.  Sometimes, you just go to
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
>hour drive to the sierras instead of 6, so it can be a week-end trip, not a
>week-long trip.

>Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad

***Paarch@jps.net***
Paarch@ix.netcom.com  (ending on May 30)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(510)353-1320
'58 Series II 88" 2-litre underpowered beast "surely"
'87 Range Rover "Squeak" new top end, running great, for sale $10,000
'92 Ducati 750ss "Rubber Ducky"

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From: John Putnam <jdputnam@pacifier.com>
Subject: RE: Beware - Minimal LR content
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:37:48 -0700
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paul,

Just a quick lesson in measurements.

The mile and acre are based on the surveyor's chain.  The chain is an =
antiquated length of measurement 66 feet in length ( don't ask me why ) =
and can be broken down into 4 rods ( 16.5' ) or 100 links ( 0.666 feet). =
 Now for the cools stuff.  One mile equals 80 chains or 5280 feet while =
one acre equals 10 square chains or 43560 sq. ft.  These measurements =
are still found in older property descriptions in the States to this =
day.  If you happen to live in an area once occupied by the Spanish you =
must also deal with the Var which changes in length depending on the =
time of year and weather the ground hog saw its shadow.  I'm really not =
up on the other measurements you mentioned but I hope this makes it =
easier for you to sleep at night.

John Putnam
the "Rhino", '70 SIIa SWB
Forest Grove, OR
Surveyor at large

----------
From: 	Paul Wakefield =
<pwakefie@isd3.esrin.esa.it>[SMTP:pwakefie@isd3.esrin.esa.it]
Sent: 	Friday, May 16, 1997 12:13 AM
Subject: 	Beware - Minimal LR content

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

To finally post whilst a thread's (almost) still going....

re: Metrics,

I was taught both at school, (Metrics just coming in). I have no =
problems
visualising an inch, 1 cm, 1 metre, mile or Km, but antiquated =
measurements
such as an acre, cable, chain, furlong etc escape me.

But check out http://www.nova.edu/Inter-Links/misc/weights.html anyway

The Norweigan inch I have been reliably informed is probably the Danish =
inch,
as Norway was a Danish colony for around 400 years.

History lesson courtesy my Norweigan buddy.

BTW, the most unusual measurement of time I know is used internally on =
the
computers I support - the microFortnight. (DON'T ASK)

>>Don't forget farthing, crown, guinea ...
>>Frank
> It was better than that,Frank.Ha'penny,thrupenny bit,tanner,bob,
> florin,half-crown,ten bob note...those were the days.....:-)
> Mike Rooth
Well, where was the sixpence and the sovereign then ?

Re: Taking the gravitational pull on tectonic plates to offline mail,
if you'd done that, I wouldn't have had 'geoid' for the word of the day.

Re: Leikney (I have sent the details offline to Clinton directly)

Addendum for Adrians Database

Name / Location: Paul Wakefield / IT
Series 1,2,2a, or 3: III
Year of manufacture: 1976
Fuel (Diesel, Petrol, LPG): Petrol
Octane number if petrol: Umm, Standard, not Super Unleaded.
Turbo if fitted: n/a (Actually lucky to have all factory fitted bits on =
post
MOD)
Overdrive if fitted: Yes (Fairey)
Total miles run on engine since last major rebuild: 100K (Judging by oil =

consumption)
Miles per gallon (urban driving): 15
Miles per gallon (motorway driving): 18
What engine oil do you use? : Was Castrol GTX, now is cheapo and nasty =
Motor
World 20W50 (on the premiss that it goes through the bearings only a few =
times
before being unceremoniously burnt at the spark).

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:20:47 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Cali Car Insurance

At 03:11 PM 5/22/97 -0400, Chip Mautz wrote:
:>Michael Carradine wrote:
:>For example, for a $7500 automobile in litigious California, the rate
:>for me is $74 !!
:
:wow - is that per month??
:
:Weekend or Third Car insurance in Georgia was only 20-30 dollars a month

 $74 per *year* !!  If I paid it per month, $6.17, then postage
 would become a major factor ;)

-Michael

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:21:28 -0600
From: Norm Lewis <norm@kpco.com>
Subject: Yellow Land-Rovers

Regarding the discussion of yellow Land-Rovers, I can add a few facts
and probably more confusion.  The yellow LR's in Utah were brought in
for a potash mine near Moab in the early '60's to be used underground. 
They had diesel engines, but still had to be modified somewhat for use
underground.  This included an exhaust scrubber that was mounted in
place of one of the fenders, hence one redundant fender.  They were
brought in with both fenders.  The LR's were used until probably the
late '60's or early '70's at the mine and then a local wrecking yard
picked up what was left of the vehicles and lots of NOS parts.  Most of
the parts eventually found their way to the Denver area in the '70's.

Over the years, I have come across many yellow Ser. I's which came that
way from the factory.  Their occurences have been so scattered that I
don't think they were all once commercial or public vehicles.  It in
some respects makes me think that maybe a contract for these vehicles
had gone sour and so Land-Rover dispersed them through their dealer
network.  Anyone have any better quesses?  

Even more unusual than the yellow LR's are red Series I's.  I've come
across at least two Series I 88 Station Wagons painted red from the
factory.

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:25:41 -0400
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

Con P. Seitl wrote:
>    When re-torquing the head bolts you should back  *each* bolt back 1/4
> of a turn in reverse sequence of torquing. When all are backed off,
> retorque the bolts in the usual fashion.... The reason for backing
> them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's
> moving, not from a standstill.

I was also confused by the above until I figured out the context. Con is
not talking about the inital torquing of the head bolts during
reinstallation of the head. Rather he is talking about the "re"-torquing
after the initial engine run, rather than just "checking" the bolts. It
sounds good to me.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Subject: Double postings
From: robot1@juno.com (Mark E Hardig)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:28:16 EDT

Do I have a tumor, or are some of the Digest  postings coming twice? I
got two copies of almost (but NOT ) all the postings to the list on
today's Digest. Made for a long mail especially with the duplication of
the lengthy (but most amusing!!!) story about air bag contests. Is this
the Major's doing, or is there some other agency at work here? At work
here?

Mark Mark ( I sound like a dog with a harelip)(harelip)

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:28:06 -0600
From: Norm Lewis <norm@kpco.com>
Subject: Motor swaps

Granville Pool commented on the Rover 2-litre 2000 engine.

This engine was a separate development from the old slant-head 4 & 6 cyl
engines and so is not a direct replacement for them.  However, the car
versions of the slant-head 4 used an aluminum head that provided a bit
more power than the cast iron head used in the LR.  These date from the
early '50's, however, and its not very easy to find one of these heads
anymore.

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:45:13 -0400
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: SII engines

Wouter de Waal wrote:
> Good info r.e. the 1519 being 1959 SII. Where did you find this info? I have
> engine #151911190 and gearbox #151911439 (with 151800232 as spare), and I
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
> (had to sandblast to find them, and they're gone now under the galvanising))
> Would all 1519 numbers signify 1959?

My reference is "Know Your Land Rover" by Robert Ivins. It has tables of
chassis, engine, gearbox and axle number ranges by year through SII.
With the introduction of the SIIA LR dropped year designations and went
to the suffix designation.

SII numbers are 9 digits. First digit for all SII (not SIIA) is "1".
Fourth digit signifies year: 8 = 1958, 9 = 1959, 0 = 1960, 1 = 1961.

SIIA numbers are 8 digits and suffix letter, first digit is "2" for all
except 6 cyl export engine with first digit of "3".

SIII numbers to October 1979 are also 8 digits and suffix letter, first
digit is "3" except 1 ton models with first digit of "2".

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 20:16:07 -0400
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Still a Land Rover?

October '97
Tired of 65 mph, a generally tired engine and having to wait a day or
two for Novers Rorth to ship parts, I swap a GM 4.3 V6 into the SII SW.
Now I can go and parts are available at NAPA! 

February '98
The gearbox jumps out of 3rd, and I got a great deal on the tranny and
transfer case from an old Bronco, so another swap. Also put in a custom
gas tank for more range.

March '98
After breaking three axles I've had it. In go the axles from the Bronco.
Also my back and the seats fight after an hour. Found some nice old
Volvo seats for $25 each. Real leather!

January '99
Can't ignore the frame rot anymore; it broke in half. Don't want to pay
for a new frame from Pacific British, I found some nice tubing behind
work and borrowed my brother's welder. Lots of work, my wife isn't
speaking anymore but it has a new frame.

May '99
Reworked the frame using Grand Cherokee supsension. Now I have coil
springs. Also fitted the Jeep column so I have power steering.

August '99
Short in the battery charger fried the electrical system. Found a nice
instrument panel from an MGB. It took some time but it works (except
temp gauge, oil pressure gauge, ammeter and speedo. Tach does work
though.)

March '00
Rear ended by a Suburban, t-boned by an Explorer, and side-swiped by a
Ram pick up. The body is about shot. Inspired by the photos of ARC
triallers, I built a new body without doors. Reworked a Tracker soft top
to fit. Fenders are simple copies, hood is new, redid the rad panel for
a larger radiator and square headlights, but did re-install the grille
and badges.

September '99
A former friend bolted a SIII grille to his Wrangler and told me it was
now a Land Rover. He doesn't get it.

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:39:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: frank01@postoffice.ptd.net (Frank W.C.)
Subject: Re: catalog sighting

Friends,
On page 6 of the Willis and Geiger Book No. 11 catalog there is a picture of
what looks to be a Land Rover Series 3. By the way, Rover owners might like
this catalog because it has a lot of neat safari stuff, etc. . A bit pricey,
though. Call (800)223-1408 for free subscription.
Frank
>New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
>I almost forgot this one...  In "Murder at 1600", Wesley Snipes is a
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 30 lines)]
>sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
>San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:35:53 -0500
From: John Cassidy <rovah@agate.net>
Subject: Downeast Land Rover Club and Downeast Rally

This is just a note to clarify that the Downeast Land Rover CLub is in no
way associated with the Downeast Land Rover Rally traditionally held at
Owl's Head Transportation museum each summer.  Apparently, my announcement
of updates to our website was misleading!  It states clearly on our
upcoming events page that we are in no way associated with the rally!

Hope this clears things up!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88",
1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO"

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From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:01:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 3.9 engines

does any one have any info on the 3.9 v8 in a 94 defender?   good , bad or
otherwise how about manual gearboxes? 
                                             Thanks in advance, Rick

`63 SII 88'' 
`96 Disco
soon to be `94 D90

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:00:50 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Bus Tyres

Andy Woodward wrote:

>and apparently do 100,000miles when used on 7.5ton vans.......Any reason
>why 8 or 10ply  tyres are not a good idea on a 90?

Several.  First is the actual rubber compound.  Many commercially-rated 
tires have significantly harder rubber for greater tread life.  This comes 
at the expense of traction, particularly in wet or cold weather.  Secondly, 
8 ply tires can be bone shaking in really cold weather.  I've run with 'em, 
and the first dozen miles on a cold morning convinces you that the tires are 
actually *square*.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:06:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hank Rutherford <ruthrfrd@borg.com>
Subject: Engine Transplants

I seem to remember a time when good old Carroll Shelby took an AC and
shoehorned a big block engine beneath the bodywork. Was the result a British
car with an American engine or an American car with British bodywork?
For that matter, since old Carroll had a heart and then kidney transplant,
is he still C.S. with some new parts, or someone else with Carroll's chassis
and fenders? Did his friends or wife really care or were they just happy to
see him back on the road?
Condolences to C.S., whose wife recently passed away.
 
         Regards, Ruthrfrd@borg.com

         I'll get a response out of digest subscribers yet!

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From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Jack Walter)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:01:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Yellow Rover?

The state of Florida had a number of yellow 1967 SIIA 88" pickups for
use by their DOT. They were yellow with white roof panels and were
usually fitted with a rear PTO. Interestingly enough they were also
supplied with alternators (mine originally had an English Motorola
unit). I bought mine (the first time) in 1973 and am currently
restoring it to original color and condition. I have met at least two
other owners of these ex-Florida trucks. Does anybody know how many
they bought or any other details of their history?

Jack Walter

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:10:18 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap

At 08:13 AM 5/22/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I am not backing down but we could go on about orginality for the 
>next year. I respect your views on the subject. But no one will 
>change my veiws.  I am an original man and I intend to stay that way. 

Fair enough.  

>It is actualy a good thing that people have different views about 
>their Landies otherwise we would not learn from others.

Yep!  What a boring place the world would be if everyone agreed with me.
(though, at least they'd all be correct.  8^)

>Good Luck on your conversions.

Thanks!  With my automotive luck, I'll need it!  8^)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:21:37 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

NADdMD@aol.com wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> In a message dated 97-05-22 07:49:08 EDT, you write:
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 25 lines)]
> Nate
> NADdMD@aol.com

  Well, I started something here I guess. My mind is thinking but on a different 
wavelenght than my fingers. Sorry if I confused anyone, as I will now try to straighten 
it out. 
   1) Initial torque: Make sure all head bolts are engaged through head into block 
threads, as this will ensure gasket alignment. Start with # 1 bolt and torque to value 
given, which is 65 ft lbs if your doing the 2.25 Petrol. Continue till all *Head* bolts 
are done. ( Rocker bolts are NOT Head bolts) That's it. Your done. Get outta there. Ohh, 
so you want to check and see if they came up to torque? Well, you can't. That's why your 
using a *Quality* torque wrench like Snap-Off ( usual disclaimers apply), so that you 
can be sure of getting the torque you want. The reason you can't check it is that you 
have applied a torque value to a bolt and achieved it via motion, signaled by the click 
or indicator of the wrench, and then stopped.  To get that very same bolt back into 
motion ( motion is required to measure torque, otherwise it's called force ) would 
require alot more than 65 ft lbs., you would have to overcome the resistance known as 
break-away torque, an altogether different bucket of cats. So there you have it. No 
peeking. Now you can worry about *re*-torquing.
  2) Re-torquing: After you have your engine up and running and you've showed up all the 
j#*ps what you can do, (about 500 miles or so ), it's time to re-torque. This is 
just to check and see if your bolts held fast and didn't back off some, engine use 
has an effect on head gaskets etc. It's simple really. Back off each bolt 1/4 turn in 
reverse sequence of initial torque. This is done so that the break-away torque is much 
lower than 65 lbs, and you can now torque each bolt, while in motion, in sequence, 
accuratly! That's it.
     As a note to torquing. Ensure all bolts are CLEAN. Dirt and burrs and gobs of 
grease affect resistance, hence torque. Keep wrench 90degrees to bolt and arm, using a 
smooth steady pressure till torque is reached. If you run out of room and stop just 
before you think its gonna click, just back the bolt you are working on up a bit (1/4 
turn) and try again. Bent bolts and heads of bolts that foul play havoc with torque 
values, get rid of them.Copper head gaskets need this re-torquing, fiber ones don't, 
although I do, sort of peeking isn't it?
  Now , if your totally confused, so am I. I'll keep my gob shut the next time!

Respectfully

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

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From: Michael Slade <slade@imagina.com>
Subject: Re: Yellow Land-Rovers
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 19:53:19 -0700

>Regarding the discussion of yellow Land-Rovers, I can add a few facts
>and probably more confusion.  The yellow LR's in Utah were brought in
>for a potash mine near Moab in the early '60's to be used underground.

Thanks for the clarification Norm.  I'll archive this and tell it to Bill
next time I see him.

At least now I know "The Rest of the Story".

Michael Slade
Portland, OR
slade@imagina.com
'89 RR County 3.9 (not a wuss-mo-bile)

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:12:35 -0400
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

Con P. Seitl wrote:
> The reason you can't check it is that you
> have applied a torque value to a bolt and achieved it via motion, signaled by the click
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
> require alot more than 65 ft lbs., you would have to overcome the resistance known as
> break-away torque, an altogether different bucket of cats. So there you have it.

I agree with Con's proceedure, but not his rationale. Force is linear.
Torque is rotary. Both are independent of whether the item they are
being applied to is moving or stationary. (Also the torque wrench
doesn't know if the bolt is rotating or stationary.) What is signficant
is the difference between static friction (usually higher) and sliding
friction (usually lower). Con's proceedure results in the torque on the
bolts always being measured while they are moving.

Regards,
David Cockey

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:23:07 -0700
From: Steve Stoneham <stoneham@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Dual gauge details

Anyone know what's in the sender end(brass,tube shaped probe) of the
dual water temp/oil press gauge? I'm assuming it has some form of gas
etc.that I can't simply refill(with a very small funnel ! ) and refit.
Regards,
Steve

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 22:50:18 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: catalog sighting

At 05:39 PM 5/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On page 6 of the Willis and Geiger Book No. 11 catalog there is a picture of
>what looks to be a Land Rover Series 3. By the way, Rover owners might like
>this catalog because it has a lot of neat safari stuff, etc. . A bit pricey,
>though. Call (800)223-1408 for free subscription.

P.S., if anyone has an extra copy of the catalog that had a sII 109", I
think on the back cover with a vest draped over the right front wing, I'd
love to take it off your hands, as that's my 109"...

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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From: "Joost Kramer" <j.kramer@Ehv.Tass.Philips.Com>
Subject: Re: tailgate wanted...
Date: Fri, 23 May 97 09:59:26 +0200 (DST)

> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> A friend requested I ask if any LROs out there have a tailgate (bottom 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> pay shipping. 
> Hey that ain't bad, 100 bucks is the least I'd sell one for...
 
It is very bad! I bought one for $25 together with a flash light and dash
switch!

Joost

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