Land Rover Owner Message Digest Contents


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The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

msgSender linesSubject
1 "Tackley, John" [jtackle21RE: Seating Advice Pls
2 Franz Parzefall [franz@m22Re: Seating Advice Pls
3 Ian Otty [imo@kerridge.c18re: SER High back seats/headrests
4 "Shaun Fisher" [fishers@31Re: Engine Swap
5 Chip Mautz [cmautz@minds32[not specified]
6 rpi@paston.co.uk 20Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
7 dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.o20Re: SER Possible Clutch Problem
8 Paul Oxley [paul@adventu24Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
9 NADdMD@aol.com 42SER Clutch and temp probs:F/U
10 M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (M11Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
11 Paul Oxley [paul@adventu23Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
12 Steve Stoneham [stoneham14Yellow Rover?
13 PDoncaster@aol.com 12Antique Land Rover Insurance
14 Uncle Roger [sinasohn@cr34Re: Engine Swap
15 Michael Carradine [cs@cr32Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance
16 Rick Grant [rgrant@cadvi22Re: Yellow Rover?
17 Jeremy Bartlett [bartlet19Re: Yellow Rover?
18 Michael Slade [slade@ima43Re: Yellow Rover?
19 JohnBullas@aol.com 12Re: Building the perfect barbecue
20 "Clinton D. Coates" [Cli20High backed seats
21 "Clinton D. Coates" [Cli19Torquing head bolts
22 "Clinton D. Coates" [Cli13Motor swaps
23 gpool@pacific.net (Granv32Re: Motor swaps
24 David Cockey [dcockey@ti24Re: Whatkindaengineizzit?
25 PDoncaster@aol.com 20Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance
26 "Juan Canepa" [jcanepa@i5subscribe lro
27 "Juan Canepa" [jcanepa@i4[not specified]
28 "Juan Canepa" [jcanepa@i4[not specified]
29 Steve Stoneham [stoneham18Re: Whatkindaengineizzit?
30 Steve Stoneham [stoneham12Re: Yellow Rover?
31 Hank Rutherford [ruthrfr34Remove those bolts!
32 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett32Seating Advice Pls
33 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns31Re: Torquing head bolts
34 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett6[not specified]
35 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns10Torquing Head Bolts
36 John Cassidy [rovah@agat24Downeast Land Rover Club website changes
37 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett34Seating Advice Pls
38 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns33Re: Torquing head bolts
39 "Beckett, Ron" [rbeckett34Seating Advice Pls
40 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns12Torquing Head Bolts
41 "Shaun Fisher" [fishers@18Re: Engine Swap
42 Michael Carradine [cs@cr51Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance
43 Michael Carradine [cs@cr32Re:/2 Torquing head bolts
44 John Cassidy [rovah@agat24Downeast Land Rover Club website changes
45 John Cassidy [rovah@agat24Downeast Land Rover Club website changes
46 "Con P. Seitl" [seitl@ns33Re: Torquing head bolts
47 "John McMaster" [john@ch28Re: Motor swaps
48 stan@rgo.co.za (Stan Pay71Attention all Car Owners!
49 Andy Woodward [azw@aber.11Bus tyres
50 Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lo20Re: Bus tyres
51 stan@rgo.co.za (Stan Pay71Attention all Car Owners!


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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Subject: RE: Seating Advice Pls
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 07:26:40 -0400

Rick Grant asked @ seats...

Trakkers makes some quite comfortable high back replacements for the 
original seats.  I have sat on them just this weekend at our local 
British Car Days show here (they came in a IIA-III hybrid from the 
folks at Renewed Traditions, but that's another story) and I can 
verify the degree of comfort is quite a bit better than the originals, 
and safer too, in the event of a rear end collision.  Look for their 
add in LRO and LROI.
BTW, how do you think a J%#p would fair in such a contest with a 
Series? ;-)

John Tackley
1974 SIII 88, "General Lee"
Richmond, VA

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From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Seating Advice Pls
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:49:53 +0200 (MET DST)

John says:
| BTW, how do you think a J%#p would fair in such a contest with a 
| Series? ;-)
Judging from how tiny those J%#p frames are and what happened to a
Mitsubishi minibus that tried to dent the side panel of my 110 just
behind the rear wheel ...  oh oh!

Cheers,
Franz
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

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From: Ian Otty <imo@kerridge.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 97 12:13:33 BST
Subject: re: SER High back seats/headrests

I have fitted Corbeau high back recliners(with headrests) in my SWB 
S3. They just fit if pushed hard back against the bulkhead. I am 
6'3" and find the driving position OK.

However during its current rebuild I will be removing the bulkhead 
completely but adding a brace across the back body approx 6" 
further back. 2" diameter tube welded to flat plate either end and 
bolted to the body at the waist rail should provide sufficient 
stiffness??. At least it will allow proper seat movement.

Ian Otty
'82 SWB S3 'The Shed'

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From: "Shaun Fisher" <fishers@natburo.kzntl.gov.za>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:39:45 +0000
Subject: Re: Engine Swap

Date:          Tue, 20 May 1997 15:37:50 -0700
Reply-to:      Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
X-To:          Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
From:          Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject:       Re: Engine Swap

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

At 08:15 AM 5/20/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't know. I feel that if one had to change the engin of a Landie 
>to one from another vehicle then the Landie is not a Landie anymore.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
>engine.  
>Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad

I am sure your dad  wishes for his knee back so that he can do the 
things he use to do. By the same token a Landie was designed to do 
certain things. I find it a bit of a challenge to push the original 
machinery to is limits. If one had to change the engine, then the 
machinery is no longer original. You are then challenging part Landie 
and part something else.

Shaun Fisher
SERIES IIA BOOZMOBILE

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From: Chip Mautz <cmautz@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:34:21 -0400

TerriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>Thats what I thought when the Brits put a Buick V8 in Land Rovers.  But I
>got over it.  Now they will probably start swaping in BMW engines
>TeriAnn Wakeman            For personal mail, please start subject line
>Santa Cruz California      with TW.  I belong to 4 high volume mail lists
>twakeman@scruznet.com      and do not read a lot of threads..Thanks

I just read on a LR page (possibly the South African Land Rover one?) about a new BMW
Engine destined for some LR's...  Discovery, Range Rover maybe?

It was a V6 engine, supposed to have more torque and flexibility than the "old technology" V-8
they're using now...

It wasn't for American Import, which is why I believe I read it on a press release scanned on the south african page...

Wonder if you could use grass for the head gasket on that one?  Or would you call 1-800-BWM-TOWME to get yourself back out of the bush??

Was kind of intersting, if not sort of disappointing...  I kind of like the "old technology"...

Chip

Chip Mautz
Greenbrier & Russel, Inc.
Consulting, Software & Education

"And Now, For Something Completely Different..."

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From: rpi@paston.co.uk
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: 	Wed, 21 May 1997 15:20:12 +0100

>------------------------------

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 20 lines)]
>Thats what I thought when the Brits put a Buick V8 in Land Rovers.  But I
>got over it.  Now they will probably start swaping in BMW engines
>iF ANYONE WANTS TO CONVER THERE 2.25 OR 2.5 TO A PETROL ROVER V8 WE HAVE
OUR WEB SITE UP AND RUNNING AT THE FOLLOWING ADRESS THE BUICK VERSION IS A
VERY DATED ENGINE AND ALL OUR NEW V8'S ARE CROSS BOLTED AND VERY RELIABLE
OUR SITE HAS MASSES OF INFORMATION ON THE ROVER ENGINE AND CONVERSION PARTS
TO ENABLE FITTMENT.

WE WOULD NEVER CONCIDER FITTING BEMA ENGINE TO LAND ROVER, THAT WOULD NOT
ONLY BE VERY EXPENSIVE BUT LESS POWERFULL.
>------------------------------

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From: dbobeck@inetgate.ushmm.org
Date: Wed, 21 May 97 11:13:00 EST
Subject: Re: SER Possible Clutch Problem

> going up the last hill from home, 3rd didn't seem to accel up the hill 
>commensurate with the engine speed, and then I smelled something hot.  

nate
If you have to get into the clutch rest assured its no real big deal, I am 
in the process of doing this myself, it took me and a friend about three 
hours to undo everything and get the tranny slid back. I would strongly 
advise you to get the flywheel checked for flatness at a machine shop. Mine 
was concave and its only 45 bucks to get it milled flat. Do make sure that 
there is freeplay in the Master Cylinder though, or else there will be 
constant pressure on the pressure plate spring.

later
Dave

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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:14:23 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

rpi@paston.co.uk wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> >------------------------------
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> ONLY BE VERY EXPENSIVE BUT LESS POWERFULL.
> >------------------------------

You obviously feel VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS!

I agree about more expensive and less powerful but perhaps you should
tell this to Land-Rover 'cos thats what they've gone and done.

Regards

Paul Oxley
"into Africa adventures" The African Adventure-travel Webzine
http://www.adventures.co.za
"AfricanAdrenalin" Sign up for adventure here...
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za & http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SER Clutch and temp probs:F/U

If you remember, I had troubles with running warm on the first hot day this
Spring and also had clutch slippage.  This is the follow up:

Temp problem:  After Charlie at RN basically refused to sell me a thermostat
("Nate, I just don't think that's your problem!"), I went in search of an
engine thermometer.  The parts store which thought they had one ($28 US) were
wrong but the owner says "You could always use a meat thermometer or if you
want, you can borrow mine, I can bring it in tomorrow"

So... I head to the local grocery store, and find a nice $3 US candy
thermometer.

Ran the car with the thermometer in the radiator.  When it got to its normal
operating temp, the thermometer read 72C (2 below Temp listed for the
thermostat so probably accurate).  I then covered the radiator, rev'ved up
the engine and brought it halfway to the red square.  Checked the temp: 74C

Conclusion: The temp sensor I recently put in is very sensitive and when I'm
touching the red I MIGHT be at 80-85C.  

Overheating problem cured. Total cost: $3 plus about 30 cents worth of gas.
  Thank you Charlie.

Clutch Slippage:  I ran it hard up and down a few hills after it had warmed
up and I had topped off the reservoir.  No slipping, no hot smell.
Conclusion (based on other tests mentioned earlier):  Clutch plate is ok to
marginal  and probably got a bit of oil on it...enough to cause it to slip
(and burn off the oil) but probably ok to leave in until a more inopportune
time.  However, I did find a local guy who can get a new plate for about $40
or reline the old one for about $30.

Overall, not a bad day.
Thanks to all for their help.

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:36:47 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

I agree about more expensive and less powerful but perhaps you should
>tell this to Land-Rover 'cos thats what they've gone and done.

Ah,but did they fall,or were they pushed??

Mike Rooth

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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:49:37 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Mike Rooth wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> I agree about more expensive and less powerful but perhaps you should
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 8 lines)]
> Ah,but did they fall,or were they pushed??
> Mike Rooth

"Pushed", eh, who let that one out? I think "pushed" and Landys with
Beemer engines are going to be two concepts we hear mentioned in direct
relation to each other a lot nowadays...
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
"into Africa adventures" The African Adventure-travel Webzine
http://www.adventures.co.za
"AfricanAdrenalin" Sign up for adventure here...
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za & http://AfricanAdrenalin.com

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:18:28 -0700
From: Steve Stoneham <stoneham@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Yellow Rover?

I received the build records for a few Rovers today and as I thought
the yellow paint visible in the bulkhead,footwells and roof area are
the original color of the 59 2 litre diesel (88") delivered to 
Montreal in "Highway yellow"and built June 4th 1959.
Anyone know what these were used for? Dept of Highways,C.N.?
I also have NADA build records for #738 thru #760 if anyones
interested.
Regards,
Steve

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From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:29:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Antique Land Rover Insurance

I'd like to find out about getting Antique Auto Insuranc for my Land Rover.
Does anyone know the requirements and/or a company who would write that type
of policy?

Peter Doncaster
'64 IIA 88 SW

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:52:06 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Swap

At 02:39 PM 5/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I am sure your dad  wishes for his knee back so that he can do the 
>things he use to do. By the same token a Landie was designed to do 

Nope, the new one works a lot better.  If we were rich, he'd get the other
one done too.  Maybe his ankles as well.

>certain things. I find it a bit of a challenge to push the original 
>machinery to is limits. If one had to change the engine, then the 
>machinery is no longer original. You are then challenging part Landie 
>and part something else.

Sure, there is something to be said in working with originality.  That's why
there's that show about the guy who builds furniture and houses with just
antique hand tools.  That's why there are those of us who still enjoy
booting up a TRS-80 mIII or an Osborne 01.  Changing one's oil, getting all
dirty and mucky can be fun in and of itself.  

But, often the best tool for the job is what counts; making the hard parts
as easy as possible, so as to enjoy the results.  Sometimes, you just go to
OilChangers so you can spend your time and effort doing the fun stuff of
being on the road.  And sometimes swapping the engine means that it's a 3
hour drive to the sierras instead of 6, so it can be a week-end trip, not a
week-long trip.

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 10:57:11 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance

At 01:29 PM 5/21/97 -0400, PDoncaster@aol.com wrote:
:I'd like to find out about getting Antique Auto Insuranc for my Land Rover.
:Does anyone know the requirements and/or a company who would write that type
:of policy?
:
:Peter Doncaster
:'64 IIA 88 SW

 Hemmings has a bunch of them listed under 'Services Offered', most with
 full page ads.  In addition to the antique, they all assume you have a
 regular automobile for every driver in your household.  The require you
 to have a locked garage.  They assume you only drive to car shows or to
 exercise and test drive the vehicle, and you drive less than 2500 miles
 a year with it.  You also need to state the agreed replacement value of
 car, and provide 2 pictures from opposite corners of the vehicle (thereby
 showing 4 sides).  In my limited research, the best rate I found was
 through Demsey & Siders Agency, who has a website with online quotes at
 www.gaic.com/classic.htm

 For example, for a $7500 automobile in litigious California, the rate
 for me is $74 !!

 Regards,                   Probably a special rate for LROA members ;)
                       ______  /
 Michael Carradine     [__[__\==                  72-88, 89-RR Land Rovers
 Architect             [________]               www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
 510-988-0900 _______.._(o)__.(o)__..o^^ POBox 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:11:56 -0600
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Yellow Rover?

At 12:18 PM 21/05/97 -0700, Steve Stoneham, wrote

>I received the build records for a few Rovers today and as I thought
>the yellow paint visible in the bulkhead,footwells and roof area are
>the original color of the 59 2 litre diesel (88")

Dunno, but my 59 petrol 88 was delivered to Vancouver painted entirely
yellow for Shell Oil Ltd in northern Alberta.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:07:21 -0700
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Yellow Rover?

Steve Stoneham wrote:
> snip
> I received the build records for a few Rovers today and as I thought
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 8 lines)]
> I also have NADA build records for #738 thru #760 if anyones
> interested.

Interesting indeed.  I have a cab top off a SI (1958??) that was clearly
originally yellow (not far off the AA yellow the new D90s come in).
However, I'm not sure of it's pedigree.  It was LH drive though.

cheers,

Jeremy

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From: Michael Slade <slade@imagina.com>
Subject: Re: Yellow Rover?
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:46:34 -0700

Steve writes,

>Anyone know what these were used for? Dept of Highways,C.N.?
>I also have NADA build records for #738 thru #760 if anyones
>interested.
>Regards,
>Steve

STeve,

One of the guys here in Portland had a AAA yellow SI pickup that was
painted original from the factory.  Apparently it was used in B.C. as a
forestry truck.  That's the story on that one.

I had one wing on my first LR, an 88, that was AAA yellow.  It was one I
put on the 88 because I hit a calf on a rural road and it was smashed (the
wing was too).

The story on that wing was that in the '50's in Southern Utah a Uranium
mine contracted a dozen or so Land-Rovers to be used in thier mine.  They
were going to put thier own custom bodywork on them so they had each LR
delivered with only one body panel on it. Apparently they could import them
cheaper like that with one panel on because it qualified as a 'complete'
vehicle rather than a chassis (so the story goes).

Anyhow, Bill Davis of Great Basin Rovers in SLC bought all of the AAA
yellow take-off panels and has them stored in Salt Lake.  I bought my RH
wing from him and that's where I heard that story.

Hopefully that gives you a few clues.

Later,

Michael Slade
Portland, OR
slade@imagina.com
'89 RR County 3.9 (not a wuss-mo-bile)

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From: JohnBullas@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:58:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Building the perfect barbecue

In a message dated 21/05/97  10:39:16, you write:

 New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
  >>
BURN THE BLASPHEMER, BURN HIM, BURN HIM
"at sixty all you can hear is the engine"

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:07:03 -0700
From: "Clinton D. Coates" <Clinton_Coates@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: High backed seats

Hi Rick!

I too had problems with the scrunched up seating arrangements in Emerson. 
 After looking at the nice (read 'pricey') offerings from RN etc, I went 
the chewing-gum-and-duct-tape route.  I ended up pulling out the old seat 
back and replacing it with a temporary high-backed plywood one faced with 
1" foam.  The plywood is mounted on leather straps attached to a 2x4 
running in the little ledge between the seats and the bulkhead.  This has 
given me about 4-6" of room (enough anyway) and is as secure as the 
original seat was.  I am going to get one of the sliding seat bases soon 
and do it up right.  In the meantime, I am somewhat rear-end proofed and 
don't have an aching right leg after the 18 hour trip from Kamloops to Ft 
St John!

Clinton

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:07:56 -0700
From: "Clinton D. Coates" <Clinton_Coates@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Torquing head bolts

Hi all!

When re-torquing your head bolts after the intitial run-in, do you:
a) loosen and re-torque each one in sequence ( if so, how much loosening)
b) loosen them all and then re-torque (but what about coolant/oil cross 
contamination?)
c) don't loosen at all, but just go over all the bolts with the torque 
wrench set to the final setting.

Thanks in advance. Oh, it is a copper gasket. And three of the long head 
bolts were bent and fouling during the last 1/4" of travel.  I am hoping 
this was the problem with the coolant contamination!

Clinton

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:08:58 -0700
From: "Clinton D. Coates" <Clinton_Coates@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Motor swaps

Look forward to hering about the chevy conversion!

On purity.  A land rover is a package.  Is a Range Rover with a 2.5 TDI 
still a RR or not?  How about a LR or RR  with a perkins or an Iveco?  
The motor is only one part of the joyous curmugenous cranky delightful 
package!

Clinton

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: Motor swaps

Clinton said:

>On purity.  A land rover is a package.  Is a Range Rover with a 2.5 TDI 
>still a RR or not?  How about a LR or RR  with a perkins or an Iveco?  
>The motor is only one part of the joyous curmugenous cranky delightful 
>package!

Good point; the LROs at home in the UK surely don't seem to mind putting in
different engines.  I suspect that many of them would wonder at all these
Yanks making such a fuss about keeping old Land-Rovers stock.  I still have
a 2.25 in mine but mostly because it works and seems cheaper than modifying
it.  And I can spend my money on other stuff like a roll cage, I hope, soon.
If I had a trashed engine, I'd think a lot about something with a bit more
power.  Like a 4-liter Ford 60-degree Cologne V-6.  Especially if my old
engine were a 2-liter F-head lump.

I'd feel differently, I expect, if I had an MG Y-type tourer or Jaguar
SS-100 or Bugatti Royale...

Now that I actually typed "2-liter F-head lump" I'm reminded of a fairly
slick and potentially inexpensive way to get more power and keep it Rover.
Use the overhead-cam 2-liter engine from a Rover 2000 saloon.  Bolts right
up, so I'm told, as it was based upon the same block as the F-head engine.

Cheers,

Granny

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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:45:33 -0400
From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Whatkindaengineizzit?

Dean Meyer wrote:
> Anybody help me identify the engine and cylinder head I just yanked out
> of my Series III? Engine number is 151991092 and the cylinder head is
> 279562.... I've been told that the original engine has
> already been replaced. Could this be an older engine? Anybody help?

"1519" indicates the engine is 1959 SII 2.25 petrol. "279562" is the
same number cast into my SII's head. There are a number of differences
from later SIIA/SIII engines. Major visible difference is front cover
and waterpump. Waterpump has 8 bolts to block rather than 9 for
SIIA/SIII. Unless converted the thermostat is a very hard to find
bellows unit. Major internal differences include bearings. For more
information e-mail me directly and I'll send a copy of my article on SII
engines from OVLR newsletter.

Regards,
David Cockey
'60 SII 88 SW (awaiting restoration)
'60 SII 88 PU (almost back on the road)

------------------------------
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From: PDoncaster@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:36:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance

Michael,

Thanks for the info about insurance. I dont have another car, nor do I have a
garage. I am moving to Manhattan and leaving my  Rover in Maine. I was hoping
to get some cheap insurance simply so I could drive it on the few occasions a
year when I'm here, and mabe to a rally or two.  I sounds as though I'll need
to get regular insurance, but I'll check into antique anyway.

Incedentally, I am an architect also. Do you have your own practice? What
sort of work do you do?

Peter Doncaster
'64 IIA 88 SW
(w/ new steering relay, radiator, and rear springs as of today)

------------------------------
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From: "Juan Canepa" <jcanepa@intersat-bb.com.ar>
Subject: subscribe lro
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:38:08 -0300

------------------------------
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From: "Juan Canepa" <jcanepa@intersat-bb.com.ar>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:41:07 -0300

------------------------------
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From: "Juan Canepa" <jcanepa@intersat-bb.com.ar>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 21:41:07 -0300

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:34:54 -0700
From: Steve Stoneham <stoneham@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Whatkindaengineizzit?

David Cockey wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> Dean Meyer wrote:
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 7 lines)]
> > of my Series III? Engine number is 151991092 and the cylinder head is
> > 279562.

> Regards,
> David Cockey
> > Anybody help me identify the engine and cylinder head I just yanked out
Just had a peek at my 59 petrol,engine # 151903659. 
Regards,
Steve

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:45:29 -0700
From: Steve Stoneham <stoneham@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Yellow Rover?

> Dunno, but my 59 petrol 88 was delivered to Vancouver painted entirely
> yellow for Shell Oil Ltd in northern Alberta.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
>                         Rick Grant
>                         1959, SII   "VORIZO"
Chassis # 149900269 (diesel) was also "Highway yellow" and delivered to
Vancouver.

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hank Rutherford <ruthrfrd@borg.com>
Subject: Remove those bolts!

To whomever,
     Time to get the a few hackles raised.
   When doing a job on our favorite vehicles, IMHO it is generally unwise to
try to shortcut a job by stubbornly refusing to remove a few extra bolts
from an item that would make a task easier/ more visible/less cantankerous
if said item were on the bench instead of in your line of stereophonic
sight. When the consequences of a job poorly done could result in a long
walk/tow/waddle/trudge home and the necessity of performing said task Again,
take the time to stop and smell the Castrol, and consider how much time it
actually takes to remove a rad shroud, vs the difficulty of removing fan
bolts and scraping gasket surfaces using your one "good eye" with Mr. Shroud
in place. I use this merely as an example to promote a little thought among
those of us who may have slightly less experience than others. Those with
experience can tell those who will listen that sometimes 1 plus 2 sometimes
equals 4. In other words, "saving work" sometimes creates far more
difficulty than it saves.
    These are observations that are not meant to belittle those who offer
advice, but to add a viewpoint that may not have previously considered.
Comments are of course welcome.
       
      Regards and Happy Rovering,

                             Ruthrfrd@borg.com 

                      "62 SWB    "Gromit"
                      "65 SWB    "Mr. Grey"
                      "63 Turner MkIII 1500   
  
                

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Seating Advice Pls
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:21:00 +1000

From: Rick Grant sez:

>I'd like to install some form of high back seating with headrests but
there
>is a bulkhead right behind the existing seats which I'm sure doesn't
leave
>Can that bulkhead be removed without destroying hull integrity?
> Is there a better solution?

What about extending the bulkhead upward with mesh so you have a
cargo barrier with visibility not to impared and somewhere to fit a
home-
made padded head rest?

Best Regards,

Ron Beckett
Editor Hillman Owners Club Of Australia Newsletter "Hillmanews"

Emu Plains, Australia
'87 Range Rover 4.8L auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660
 -  for pictures see
http://www.brigadoon.com/~craigb/hillman/hunter.html

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:23:48 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

Clinton D. Coates wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> Hi all!
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
> bolts were bent and fouling during the last 1/4" of travel.  I am hoping
> this was the problem with the coolant contamination!
> Clinton

   When re-torquing the head bolts you should back  *each* bolt back 1/4 
of a turn in reverse sequence of torquing. When all are backed off, 
retorque the bolts in the usual fashion. ( Hope you coated both sides off 
the copper head gasket with oil when you installed it ) Because you are 
only lowering the torque value of each bolt when backing off there will 
be no leakage because they are still really tight. The reason for backing 
them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's 
moving, not from a standstill. The numbers are around 100 ft lbs to move 
a bolt thats torqued @ 85, and 88 ft lbs to move one @ 65 lbs. Conversly, 
if you check only by putting a torque wrench on a bolt torqued @ 51 lbs, 
your wrench will click at 65, not what you want! Also, use a good quality 
wrench as well, borrow one if you have to, cause margin of tolerance is 
only +/- 4%.

Regards, 

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:47:00 +1000

index land-rover-owner

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:41:44 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Torquing Head Bolts

Forgot to tell you , get rid of those bent bolts, they'll throw your 
torque values all to hell!

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:39:50 -0500
From: John Cassidy <rovah@agate.net>
Subject: Downeast Land Rover Club website changes

Just a quick note to let you all know there have been some recent updates
to our club website.  The latest additions are a page of photos from the
1996 Downeast Rally and a map of the area around the museum.  Also, please
note a link to the Owl's Head Transportation Museum's website.

Many thanks to those who have visited our site and commented on it!  We
have just passed the 500 mark in visitors!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88",
1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO"

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Seating Advice Pls
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:21:00 +1000

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

From: Rick Grant sez:

>I'd like to install some form of high back seating with headrests but
there
>is a bulkhead right behind the existing seats which I'm sure doesn't
leave
>Can that bulkhead be removed without destroying hull integrity?
> Is there a better solution?

What about extending the bulkhead upward with mesh so you have a
cargo barrier with visibility not to impared and somewhere to fit a
home-
made padded head rest?

Best Regards,

Ron Beckett
Editor Hillman Owners Club Of Australia Newsletter "Hillmanews"

Emu Plains, Australia
'87 Range Rover 4.8L auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660
 -  for pictures see
http://www.brigadoon.com/~craigb/hillman/hunter.html

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:23:48 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

Clinton D. Coates wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> Hi all!
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 17 lines)]
> bolts were bent and fouling during the last 1/4" of travel.  I am hoping
> this was the problem with the coolant contamination!
> Clinton

   When re-torquing the head bolts you should back  *each* bolt back 1/4 
of a turn in reverse sequence of torquing. When all are backed off, 
retorque the bolts in the usual fashion. ( Hope you coated both sides off 
the copper head gasket with oil when you installed it ) Because you are 
only lowering the torque value of each bolt when backing off there will 
be no leakage because they are still really tight. The reason for backing 
them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's 
moving, not from a standstill. The numbers are around 100 ft lbs to move 
a bolt thats torqued @ 85, and 88 ft lbs to move one @ 65 lbs. Conversly, 
if you check only by putting a torque wrench on a bolt torqued @ 51 lbs, 
your wrench will click at 65, not what you want! Also, use a good quality 
wrench as well, borrow one if you have to, cause margin of tolerance is 
only +/- 4%.

Regards, 

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------
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From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Seating Advice Pls
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:21:00 +1000

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

From: Rick Grant sez:

>I'd like to install some form of high back seating with headrests but
there
>is a bulkhead right behind the existing seats which I'm sure doesn't
leave
>Can that bulkhead be removed without destroying hull integrity?
> Is there a better solution?

What about extending the bulkhead upward with mesh so you have a
cargo barrier with visibility not to impared and somewhere to fit a
home-
made padded head rest?

Best Regards,

Ron Beckett
Editor Hillman Owners Club Of Australia Newsletter "Hillmanews"

Emu Plains, Australia
'87 Range Rover 4.8L auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660
 -  for pictures see
http://www.brigadoon.com/~craigb/hillman/hunter.html

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:41:44 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Torquing Head Bolts

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

Forgot to tell you , get rid of those bent bolts, they'll throw your 
torque values all to hell!

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------
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From: "Shaun Fisher" <fishers@natburo.kzntl.gov.za>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:13:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Engine Swap

To Uncle Roger.

I am not backing down but we could go on about orginality for the 
next year. I respect your views on the subject. But no one will 
change my veiws.  I am an original man and I intend to stay that way. 
It is actualy a good thing that people have different views about 
their Landies otherwise we would not learn from others.

Good Luck on your conversions.

Shaun Fisher 
SERIES IIA BOOZMOBILE

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:16:56 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Antique Land Rover Insurance

At 08:36 PM 5/21/97 -0400, PDoncaster@aol.com wrote:
:Thanks for the info about insurance. I dont have another car, nor do I have a
:garage. I am moving to Manhattan and leaving my  Rover in Maine. I was hoping
:to get some cheap insurance simply so I could drive it on the few occasions a
:year when I'm here, and mabe to a rally or two.  I sounds as though I'll need
:to get regular insurance, but I'll check into antique anyway.

 I buy it for liability, not loss of the vehicle.  The way they structure
 the terms, they cover most of the contingencies that would lead to loss
 of the vehicle, ie the car is locked up all the time, or when your driving
 it the vehicle is not left unattended.  Your nor supposed to commute in it
 or even take it to a grocery store.  You are to drive it for testing and
 come home, or drive to a car show and be there all the time.  Very little
 risk of loss for the insurance company.  There is also the issue of whether
 portions of your basic insurance cover their obligations otherwise.  For
 instance, here in California insured drivers pay about $80 a year to cover
 uninsured motorists (if everybody had insurance, this would be zero), as
 do other states.  By having this paid once in the regular policy, the
 antique insurer may not be obligated to ask for this fee again.  They do
 ask your age, driving record, and name of your regular insurance company.
 The insurance company bases the policy on your declarations, if they are
 not true and something happens, they are obviously not liable.  I too do
 not have a garage, so it would be fruitless to claim a loss for my truck
 if it was broken into or stolen from home.

:Incedentally, I am an architect also. Do you have your own practice? What
:sort of work do you do?

 You poor fellow!  Sorry to hear it!! ;)

 I'm licensed and tried to have my own practice exasperated by the last
 recession.  I don't have the client contacts to make a go of it, and not
 the patience to deal with employers.  I used to do wood frame structures,
 and small commercial projects, from homes to restaurants and stores.  With
 all the planning regulations everywhere, housewives on design review boards,
 and litigation, to name a few peeves, it is not a good time to be in a
 creative profession such as architecture.  Besides, you can go down to
 Egghead and buy a $50 software program that will design your home and
 office for you.  Cheer up!

 Regards,

 Michael Carradine, Architect                        Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Unimog Network Int'l, Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA  <cs@crl.com>
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:27:31 -0700
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re:/2 Torquing head bolts

At 11:23 AM 5/21/97 -0700, Con P. Seitl wrote:
:   When re-torquing the head bolts you should back  *each* bolt back 1/4 
:of a turn in reverse sequence of torquing. When all are backed off, 
:retorque the bolts in the usual fashion. ( Hope you coated both sides off 
:the copper head gasket with oil when you installed it ) Because you are 
:only lowering the torque value of each bolt when backing off there will 
:be no leakage because they are still really tight. The reason for backing 
:them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's 
:moving, not from a standstill. The numbers are around 100 ft lbs to move 
:a bolt thats torqued @ 85, and 88 ft lbs to move one @ 65 lbs. Conversly, 
:if you check only by putting a torque wrench on a bolt torqued @ 51 lbs, 
:your wrench will click at 65, not what you want! Also, use a good quality 
:wrench as well, borrow one if you have to, cause margin of tolerance is 
:only +/- 4%.

 Why not assume that the torque values given take into account the
 effects alleged to above, making it unnecessary to factor in your
 guesstimates or go through the backoff and retorqing scheme.  It
 seems to me that once you back off a nut you invalidate the whole
 process and none of the values given or readings taken are reliable.
 I suggest, that unless specified otherwise, a torque value in sequence
 is to be applied by setting your torque wrench to the value given and
 applying the force until you reach the reading (on old pointer type
 wrenches) or feel the click (on modern dial wrenches).  But hey,
 what do I know, eh??

-Michael

------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:39:50 -0500
From: John Cassidy <rovah@agate.net>
Subject: Downeast Land Rover Club website changes

Just a quick note to let you all know there have been some recent updates
to our club website.  The latest additions are a page of photos from the
1996 Downeast Rally and a map of the area around the museum.  Also, please
note a link to the Owl's Head Transportation Museum's website.

Many thanks to those who have visited our site and commented on it!  We
have just passed the 500 mark in visitors!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88",
1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO"

------------------------------
[ <- Message 45 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 970522 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:39:50 -0500
From: John Cassidy <rovah@agate.net>
Subject: Downeast Land Rover Club website changes

Just a quick note to let you all know there have been some recent updates
to our club website.  The latest additions are a page of photos from the
1996 Downeast Rally and a map of the area around the museum.  Also, please
note a link to the Owl's Head Transportation Museum's website.

Many thanks to those who have visited our site and commented on it!  We
have just passed the 500 mark in visitors!

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

The Downeast Land Rover Club, <http://www.agate.net/~rovah/>
X0 of the V(irtual)MFA 323th Cougars/Flying GSC's F/A-18 Hornet game

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover-"Smedley," 1966 Series IIA 88",
1972 Series III 88"-"SWAMBO"

------------------------------
[ <- Message 46 -> end | Table of Contents | <- Digest 970522 -> Archive Index | <- Browser -> ]

Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:23:48 -0700
From: "Con P. Seitl" <seitl@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Torquing head bolts

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

Clinton D. Coates wrote:
> New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
> Hi all!
	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 17 lines)]
> bolts were bent and fouling during the last 1/4" of travel.  I am hoping
> this was the problem with the coolant contamination!
> Clinton

   When re-torquing the head bolts you should back  *each* bolt back 1/4 
of a turn in reverse sequence of torquing. When all are backed off, 
retorque the bolts in the usual fashion. ( Hope you coated both sides off 
the copper head gasket with oil when you installed it ) Because you are 
only lowering the torque value of each bolt when backing off there will 
be no leakage because they are still really tight. The reason for backing 
them off is that a torque wrench only measures torque on a bolt as it's 
moving, not from a standstill. The numbers are around 100 ft lbs to move 
a bolt thats torqued @ 85, and 88 ft lbs to move one @ 65 lbs. Conversly, 
if you check only by putting a torque wrench on a bolt torqued @ 51 lbs, 
your wrench will click at 65, not what you want! Also, use a good quality 
wrench as well, borrow one if you have to, cause margin of tolerance is 
only +/- 4%.

Regards, 

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"

------------------------------
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From: "John McMaster" <john@chiaroscuro.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:35:54 +01:0
Subject: Re: Motor swaps

> On purity.  A land rover is a package.  Is a Range Rover with a 2.5 TDI 
> still a RR or not?  How about a LR or RR  with a perkins or an Iveco?  
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
> The motor is only one part of the joyous curmugenous cranky delightful 
> package!

If I do not own Land Rovers what are the two vehicles parked out the 
front?  People recognise them as Land Rovers.  The 110 has 33"s and 
colourful paint that make it look different but people cannot see the 
Perkins 4.236 or Range Rover gearbox (and more).  Likeways the 88", 
despite a serious quantity of dents and tears is mostly Land Rover 
shaped with a serious roll cage.  Again people do not always 
recognise the Range Rover chassis and axles or Rover P5 (180 BHP) V8 
engine.

 Will I have to sign off and start a "it was once a Solihull 
vehicle" list ;-)
______________________
John McMaster
john@chiaroscuro.co.uk

green/purple 110/Massey Ferguson

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:43:17 +0200
From: stan@rgo.co.za (Stan Payne)
Subject: Attention all Car Owners!

GENERAL MOTORS INTRODUCES NEW INSTANT-WIN AIRBAGS

DETROIT-

With third-quarter sales sluggish and its share of the domestic
market down 11 percent since 1993, General Motors unveiled a new
instant-win airbag contest Monday.

The new airbags, which award fabulous prizes upon violent, high-speed
impact with another car or stationary object, will come standard in all
of the company's 1997 cars.

"Auto accidents have never been so exciting," said GM vice-president of
marketing Roger Jenkins, who expects the contest to boost 1997 sales
significantly. "When you play the new GM Instant Win Airbag Game, your
next fatal collision could mean a trip for two to Super Bowl XXXI in
New Orleans. Or a year's worth of free Mobil gasoline."

Though it does not officially begin until Jan. 1, 1997, the airbag
promotion is already being tested in select cities, with feedback
overwhelmingly positive.

"As soon as my car started to skid out of control, I thought to
myself, Oh boy, this could be it-I could be a big winner!'" said
Cincinnati's Martin Frelks, who lost his wife but won $50 Sunday
when the Buick LeSabre they were driving hit an oil slick at 60 mph and
slammed into an oncoming truck. "When the car stopped rolling down the
embankment, I knew Ellen was dead, but all I could think about was   
getting
the blood and glass out of my eyes so I could read that airbag!"

"It's really addictive," said Sacramento, CA, resident Marjorie Kamp,
speaking from her hospital bed, where she is listed in critical
condition with severe brain hemorrhaging and a punctured right lung.
"I've already crashed four cars trying to win those Super Bowl tickets,
but I still haven't won. I swear, I'm going to win those tickets-even
if it kills me!"

Kamp said that as soon as she is well enough, she plans to buy a new
Pontiac Bonneville and drive it into a tree.

GM officials are not surprised the airbag contest has been so well
received. "In the past, nobody really liked car wrecks, and that's
understandable. After all, they're scary and dangerous and, sometimes,
even fatal," GM CEO Paul Offerman said. "But now, when you drive a new
GM car or truck, your next serious crash could mean serious cash. Who
wouldn't like that?"

Offerman added that in the event a motorist wins a prize but is killed,
that prize will be awarded to the next of kin.

According to GM's official contest rules, odds of winning the grand
prize, a brand-new 1997 Cutlass Supreme, are 1 in 43,000,000.
Statistical experts, however, say the real chances of winning are
significantly worse. "If you factor in the odds of getting in a serious
car accident in the first place-approximately 1 in 720,000--the actual
odds of winning a prize each time you step in your car are more like 1
in 31 trillion."

Further, even if one is in an accident, there is no guarantee the
airbag will inflate. "I was recently broadsided by a drunk driver in
my new Chevy Cavalier," said Erie, PA, resident Jerry Polaner. "My car
was totaled, and because it was the side of my car that got hit, my
airbag didn't even inflate. But what really gets me is the fact that the
drunk driver, who rammed my side with the front of his 1997 Buick Regal,
won a $100 Office Depot gift certificate. That's just wrong."

------------------------------
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From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:33:36 +0000
Subject: Bus tyres

The Michelin XCAs used on the local minibuses come in 6.00R16, 
7.50R16, 215/75R16 and 205R16(which is stated on the sidewall as 
ebing 205R16 compatible....) and apparently do 100,000miles when 
used on 7.5ton vans.......Any reason why 8 or 10ply  tyres are not a 
good idea on a 90?

------------------------------
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From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 06:10:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Bus tyres

8-ply tyres on a Rover:

Not a good idea if you plan on not having a terminal case of spinal
compression - those things have NO give in the sidewalls or anywhere else
for that matter.

You'd find them extremely rough-riding, as most are designed to be inflated
to 90 PSI - can you say round rubber rock? 8*)

I have a friend who did this on a Pontiac Safari station wagon - one of the
last of the old land yachts. His was an unhappy experience to say the
least...

                              ajr

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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:43:17 +0200
From: stan@rgo.co.za (Stan Payne)
Subject: Attention all Car Owners!

GENERAL MOTORS INTRODUCES NEW INSTANT-WIN AIRBAGS

DETROIT-

With third-quarter sales sluggish and its share of the domestic
market down 11 percent since 1993, General Motors unveiled a new
instant-win airbag contest Monday.

The new airbags, which award fabulous prizes upon violent, high-speed
impact with another car or stationary object, will come standard in all
of the company's 1997 cars.

"Auto accidents have never been so exciting," said GM vice-president of
marketing Roger Jenkins, who expects the contest to boost 1997 sales
significantly. "When you play the new GM Instant Win Airbag Game, your
next fatal collision could mean a trip for two to Super Bowl XXXI in
New Orleans. Or a year's worth of free Mobil gasoline."

Though it does not officially begin until Jan. 1, 1997, the airbag
promotion is already being tested in select cities, with feedback
overwhelmingly positive.

"As soon as my car started to skid out of control, I thought to
myself, Oh boy, this could be it-I could be a big winner!'" said
Cincinnati's Martin Frelks, who lost his wife but won $50 Sunday
when the Buick LeSabre they were driving hit an oil slick at 60 mph and
slammed into an oncoming truck. "When the car stopped rolling down the
embankment, I knew Ellen was dead, but all I could think about was   
getting
the blood and glass out of my eyes so I could read that airbag!"

"It's really addictive," said Sacramento, CA, resident Marjorie Kamp,
speaking from her hospital bed, where she is listed in critical
condition with severe brain hemorrhaging and a punctured right lung.
"I've already crashed four cars trying to win those Super Bowl tickets,
but I still haven't won. I swear, I'm going to win those tickets-even
if it kills me!"

Kamp said that as soon as she is well enough, she plans to buy a new
Pontiac Bonneville and drive it into a tree.

GM officials are not surprised the airbag contest has been so well
received. "In the past, nobody really liked car wrecks, and that's
understandable. After all, they're scary and dangerous and, sometimes,
even fatal," GM CEO Paul Offerman said. "But now, when you drive a new
GM car or truck, your next serious crash could mean serious cash. Who
wouldn't like that?"

Offerman added that in the event a motorist wins a prize but is killed,
that prize will be awarded to the next of kin.

According to GM's official contest rules, odds of winning the grand
prize, a brand-new 1997 Cutlass Supreme, are 1 in 43,000,000.
Statistical experts, however, say the real chances of winning are
significantly worse. "If you factor in the odds of getting in a serious
car accident in the first place-approximately 1 in 720,000--the actual
odds of winning a prize each time you step in your car are more like 1
in 31 trillion."

Further, even if one is in an accident, there is no guarantee the
airbag will inflate. "I was recently broadsided by a drunk driver in
my new Chevy Cavalier," said Erie, PA, resident Jerry Polaner. "My car
was totaled, and because it was the side of my car that got hit, my
airbag didn't even inflate. But what really gets me is the fact that the
drunk driver, who rammed my side with the front of his 1997 Buick Regal,
won a $100 Office Depot gift certificate. That's just wrong."

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