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From: Jett.Hogger@prodigy.com (MR JOHN M ROSSI)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:01:00, -0500
Subject: Haynes Manual "Land Rovers

Hello All
  I have two new in wraper out of print "Haynes"  Land Rover owner 
workshop manuals.
They are 1958 thur 1978  140 cu in or 2.3 liter. 4-cylinder gas.  88 
and 109 inch wheelbase.   The price is $30 plus shipping.   These are 
new books and are out of print.   
  Thanks  John Rossi   Flintstone, ga  706-820-1771

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:35:02 +0100 (BST)
From: Tom Peacey <tom.peacey@service.britgas.co.uk>
Subject: Slick 50

Hey Up,

I put Slick 50 in my V8 Disco and after about 200 miles of churning
it around the engine started better and was miles quieter during warm up.
Trouble is you have to buy about 30 quids worth for a 3.9L engine!

I also put Slick 50 manual gearbox stuff in my transfer box.  (I've got
an auto box).  This was because it really whined at about 85-90mph. 
After about 300 miles of churning the tranny became noticeably quieter
but not as significant as the engine improvement.

It also doubles as hair gel.....

Tom

'95 V8 Disco  (with real off-road scratches)
 _____
 [][][\__      /
 |^----^-|    /
 (o)  (o) ,,,/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 8:31:36 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Slick 50 ???????

The only thing "slick" about Slick 50 is the way the company fleeces you 
out of your hard earned money. Oil does the job just fine. As we all 
know, engine parts never really touch...they ride on a hydrodynamic wedge 
of lubricant. Therefore addditives that are supposed to stick to engine 
parts to make them more 'slippery' are simply overkill. Engine life 
depends more on regular maintenance and driving style than on what lives 
in the sump. Save your money for more Guiness...the better motor oil.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Slick 50 ???????
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 13:39:26 BST

> The only thing "slick" about Slick 50 is the way the company fleeces you 
> out of your hard earned money. Oil does the job just fine. As we all 
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 7 lines)]
> depends more on regular maintenance and driving style than on what lives 
> in the sump. Save your money for more Guiness...the better motor oil.

There's also the arguement that if these things are so wonderful,
a.) why don't the manufacturers recommend them,
b.) why aren't they included as additives in the relevant oil?
   (or perhaps they are...)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:54:28 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Beer Money

If you like Guiness try Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout.  Murphy's is
pretty good too.

Rover On,
David l Glaser                    '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Land Rover Models
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:20:27 +0100
From: <mr@grant.media-gn.nl>

Try to get an issue of Land Rover Owner International.
They sell some Series and other Land Rovers.

Otherwise look at the LRO-bookshop somewhere at www.landrover.com

Have much fun with them. Here in Holland I found quite a few of different 
kinds (Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Disco's and so on.....)

Marc Rengers
mr@grant.media-gn.nl
Westeremden, Holland
http://minerva.media-gn.nl/landrover

 #=====#                #=========#         also subscribed to 
 |___|__\___            |____|__|__\___     LAND ROVER Owner International
 | _ |   |_ |}          |  _ |  |   |_ |}   (great magazine)
 "(_)""""(_)"           ""(_)"""""""(_)"
    SOLD !!!
 1977 "88" III 2.25    1987 "110"  2.5
 petrol    23-67-XB    diesel RH-12-PF
   
Have: tools, knowledge, couch, no      Pager: (+31) 06-59111461
      money left for food              Tel:   (+31) 0596-551334

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Beer Money
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 14:27:00 PDT

Let's not forget Gillespies, Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout and Beamish; all 
are stouts worth a try.

Now for the real ales....Field study in progress, will report back when I've 
tried them all :-)

Scott (drunk? who me?) Davies '85 110 2.5D HT
 ----------
From: David L Glaser
Subject: Beer Money
Date: 10 April 1997 08:54

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

If you like Guiness try Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout.  Murphy's is
pretty good too.

Rover On,
David l Glaser                    '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 06:59:48 -0700
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Mathilda's Hesitation /Dieseling - part Duh

At  2:00 PM 4/9/97 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote:
.  (Can you guess
>why I take bart?)  8^)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
>Uncle Roger

I thought it was because your cars lived at Scottys 8*)

TeriAnn Wakeman            For personal mail, please start subject line
Santa Cruz California      with TW.  I belong to 4 high volume mail lists
twakeman@scruznet.com      and do not read a lot of threads..Thanks

Medium & large format photography, 1960 Land Rover 109,  1961 Triumph TR3A

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:15:41 -6
From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@cdr.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Aftermarket SIII clutch disk?

> standard passenger car 57 chevy - 10-1/2" clutch disc -
snip
10-1/2"? The SIII rover clutch is 9-1/2"
I hope it's a typo.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@cdr.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:34:14 +0000
From: huw jones <desrads@southwest.com.au>
Subject: landy speedo

I had a similar problem on my 64 IIa, fixed by stripping 
down the speedo head (remove from dash, twist off bezel &
glass, undo screws at back of speedo & withdraw unit from
 case) and then cleaning 30 years of outback dust from 
the little ratchet mechanism inside. The ratchet is 
disengaged by reverse movement & doesn't always re-engage
unless clean and lubricated
Good Luck
Huw
64 109
92 Discovery Tdi
95 J**p

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:58:22 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Beer Money

> Let's not forget Gillespies, Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout and Beamish; all
> are stouts worth a try.
> Now for the real ales....Field study in progress, will report back when I've
> tried them all :-)

Sam Smith's Taddy Porter is great.  Actually anything from Samuel Smith
is great.  You can never go wrong with Tadcaster's oldest brewery.  Does
anyone know how far Tadcaster is from Solihull.  If its close, I might
have to consider moving across the pond!

Rover On,
David l Glaser                    '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:09:25 -0700
From: "Mark L. Freeman" <baker@murlin.com>
Subject: Genuine or After Market Parts

Chis Clanton asked aobout the advantages/savings of using non-genuine LR 
parts.  I believe that this is one of those questions that don't have one 
correct answer. The question has as much to do philosophy as fact.  Parts 
suppliers keep this issue heated up; those supplying genuine parts 
promote the virtues of genuine LR parts while the other suppliers will 
sell you on value.  I would never use non-genuine parts in engines or 
gearboxes as the potential savings don't outweigh the costs of a failure. 
Other less tolerance-critical pieces that I buy don't always come in 
pretty tri-lingual Land Rover boxes.

It seems that there are more LR parts suppliers out there now and the 
Rover Group, at least in the UK, seem to be set on regaining some of the 
parts business they have lost by lowering prices.  If you expect to be 
spending a lot on a restoration project you should shop around.  I 
believe that it is something of a buyer's market for parts in the US now. 
BTW, I have been gathering up parts for a restoration project and I found 
an east coast supplier, Europarts, that got me genuine LR body panels for 
about the same money I would have paid for importing used panels from a 
breaker in the UK.  I would have never thought that would have been 
possible, so counter-intuitive, so it really pays to make a few calls.

Mark Freeman
1975 109 one tonne diesel
1974  88 petrol

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Beer Money
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 16:06:35 BST

> Sam Smith's Taddy Porter is great.  Actually anything from Samuel Smith
> is great.  You can never go wrong with Tadcaster's oldest brewery.  Does
> anyone know how far Tadcaster is from Solihull.  If its close, I might
> have to consider moving across the pond!

Tadcaster was within the catchment area for the school I went to...

Okay, I lived on the opposide side of the catchment area...

Background: Tadcaster is in Yorkshire (hence the White Rose, and the references
on the can/bottle to it being Yorkshire's oldest brewery), in the Vale of
York. Just off the A64, about midway between York and Leeds - perhaps
a little closer to York.
Oh, 100 miles or so to the north of Birmingham?

Tad' has 3 breweries: John Smiths, Sam Smiths, and Bass. All are quite
large affairs, although Sam Smiths is the smaller, and the better. They are
also the major landlord in the town. Virtually every shop/etc is leased from
Sam Smiths.
I think Tad' claims to have more pubs/head of pop. than anywhere else, but
every other town seems to claim this. It definitely has more breweries! :-)

John and Sam were brothers 200 years or so ago...
Yes Yorkshire Stout does exist - don't listen to the Irish!   :-)

Richard (a minor Yorkshire Nationalist)

------------------------------

Subject: Rover-shaped telephones ?
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:05:29 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Niels Vendelbjerg of IceLandRovers writes:
>   I hope that you or one of your members might be able to help us in a
>   small matter: we'd like to - somehow somewhere - get hold of a telephone in
>   the shape of a traditional Land Rover. - If it's produced anywhere in the
>   world, it must be in the States.

Hi Niels,
	Well, although such a thing could be made in the US, more likely it
would be made in taiwan :-)

	Unfortunately, there are comparitively few Rover toys available in 
the US at this time.  Occasionally some sneak in, but Britian and Europe
seem to have a larger stock.  I've copied your request to a larger audiance,
in the hopes that one of our readers may have seen such a thing, and can 
help you out.

    Cheers,
          Bill Caloccia			wpc@Caloccia.Net
	 http://www.Caloccia.Net/wpc/
				  R
       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/
   R  1  3  2wd  H		  D
   +--|--|   o   |             L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L             |  2	    because
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:32:02 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Beer Money

> Background: Tadcaster is in Yorkshire (hence the White Rose, and the references
> on the can/bottle to it being Yorkshire's oldest brewery), in the Vale of
> York. Just off the A64, about midway between York and Leeds - perhaps
> a little closer to York.
> Oh, 100 miles or so to the north of Birmingham?

PERFECT! I'll live in the middle.  Now that the assembly lines have gone
24 hours I can work there at night. Then during the day I'll work at Sam
Smith's as a beer taster.

DARN! I forgot to factor in sleep

Rover On,
David L Glaser             '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6 (MayaTruck)
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:37:21 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Rover-shaped telephones ?

> >   I hope that you or one of your members might be able to help us in a
> >   small matter: we'd like to - somehow somewhere - get hold of a telephone in
> >   the shape of a traditional Land Rover. 

I have a brickphone.  If you paint it blue, red, green, or limestone it
will look exacly like a LR

Rover On,
David L Glaser             '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6 (MayaTruck)
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Spark plugs
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:46:30 -0700

>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:03:18 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Erik van Dyck <erikvandyck@mindspring.com>
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 9 lines)]
>It's time to replace them and I'm not sure I put the correct heat range in
>last time.

The Series III uses a Champion N12Y.  If you haven't got an owners and
factory service manual for your vehicle, you should get one as all the
plug, filter, fluid, etc. information is listed in them.  You can get
Series III owners manuals and factory workshop manuals from Land Rover
Owner International magazine.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@pss.boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 LR Series III-88
  1991 RR Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: Joe Ankeny <jankeny@express-hr.com>
Subject: IQ test update
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:06:24 -0500

I seem to have increased my intelligence quotient regarding general
automobile electrics\theory but this sub-specialization of Lucas in my
63 IIa SW is testing my humilty...
  The ideas sent to me were all appreciated and on more than one
occasion I experienced the "eureka" syndrome. That is, after reading an
e-mail or a post I was certain I knew what the problem was. After hours
of fiddling the damn thing still will not start. 
   My test light attatched to the CB terminal of the coil and the lead
connecting to the side of the distributor registers intermitently as I
turn the engine by hand with the handle...just like it is supposed to.
If the points are closed and current is running through them am I wrong
to assume that a coil ignition wire will want to spark and ground itself
out on a good ground surface? Instead of intermintent spark as the
points open\close it would be one uninterupted discharge right? I do not
get any spark whatsoever. Nada. Nope. Nein. Nyet. So. (logic here) That
means either the coil is bad or the new Lucas ignition cable from the
coil is bad. Right? 
   This experience has been fantastically frustrating especially
considering that the truck sat unmoved for ten years in front of my
grandmothers house in Casper Wyoming for ten years.  It actually started
and ran well after a decade of non-use. And now after spending a year
off\on attempting to make it functional I realize it worked better
before I ever touched it. This whole deal is mangling my pride. (maybe
it needs to be mangled) 
Anyway I've been entertaining thoughts of having it towed into an open
field, tanks of propane opened and placed inside. Tape up windows and
doors, then, with the beer flowing, invite all my friends to shoot
tracers and flairs at it. Thank you Hunter Thompson.

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:15:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Series III speedo

On 08 Apr 97 Lenny Warren (lenny@fof.coracle.com) lamented: The speedo on my
ser III shows the speed ok, but the mileometer and trip meter doesn't work.

Lenny:

We should arrange a trade.  The odometer on my series IIa works fine but the
speedometer does not.  What is a trip meter?  :)

Has anyone worked on the innards of these things enough to suggest a cure?

Paul Donohue
Denver
1965 LR Dormobile  Named "Lurch" for it's smooth ride.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:09:19 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Slick 50 ???????

Richard Marsden wrote:

  New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

  > The only thing "slick" about Slick 50 is the way the company
  fleeces you
  > out of your hard earned money. Oil does the job just fine. As we
  all
           [ truncated by lro-lite (was 7 lines)]
  > depends more on regular maintenance and driving style than on what
  lives
  > in the sump. Save your money for more Guiness...the better motor
  oil.

  There's also the arguement that if these things are so wonderful,
  a.) why don't the manufacturers recommend them,
  b.) why aren't they included as additives in the relevant oil?
     (or perhaps they are...)

 I share everyone's suspicions about these additives, and the logic of
the above comments is undeniable - however I have just tried an additive
for the first time and experience here shows at least something...

I own a 1989 VW LT35D Bus which we use for our unit vehicle on film
recordings - last month, preparing for a trip to Norway, I changed the
oil (something i rarely do myself as I don't usually depart from Land
Rover maintenance - let the workshop do it.).

The traction was still poor - it's a high top bus and wind resistance is
high, and even with the best care in the world the 6 cyl diesel motor,
witout turbo, is a little sluggish - it could reach 120 kph fully loaded
- if you give it long enough, but i wanted more, and I wanted a little
better accelleration.

My mechanic recommended Sweedol - a similar product with "small teflon
creepie-crawlies" which are supposed to lubricate your cylinders and the
suppliers bank-account.

So I tried this £20 wonder product - and could immediatly conclude a
quieter running engine, less smoke, and better accelleration, especially
at the 80 - 100 kph level where that little extra is useful.

The norwegian trip also indicated better fuel economy - but that is
probably subjective - as the speed limits in Norway are probably the
real cause!

I still haven't tried it in the Land Rover motor yet - I asked my LR
mechanic and his reply was "I have never heard of it doing any harm, so
try!"

But as others have said - this is not liquid magic, and does not serve
as a substitute for timely repairs.

The reason why it's not a permanent additive could be that it is a
"treatment" product, which if in the motor oil permanently, may
"over-treat" your engine - Sweedol's instructions say that you can
easily change oil again several times without having to get a new
prescription!

Still I have my doubts - I would love to hear what experience others
have!

--
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)      +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)      +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data      +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)      +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)      +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT       +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail        channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail) channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:45:52 -0400
From: David Russell <David_R@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: DC area Meeting!

At 12:40 -0400 4/8/97, Adams, Bill wrote:
>To those of you concerned about where and when the meeting will take
>place...here it is.
>Sunday, April 13th at 1 p.m. in Greenbelt Park, a National Park Service
>area located on MD 193 just past Greenbelt Road in...you guessed
>it...Greenbelt Maryland.

I'll be there with burgers and pictures of my Rover

David Russell
David_R@mindspring.com
1969 Series IIA SWB (runs great, just needs a new frame)
1977 FJ-40 Land Cruiser (non-running) rusted-out hulk
1996 Grand Cherokee--"I wish I were a Discovery"

http://www.mindspring.com/~david_r <---NEW stuff, just updated!!

"Intel Inside"...The world's most widely used warning label."
(unknown)

courtesy Nanther's Mac Quotes,  http://members.aol.com/twfms/macquotes.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:25:24 -6
From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@cdr.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Genuine or After Market Parts

Mark writes:
snip
> sell you on value.  I would never use non-genuine parts in engines or 
> gearboxes as the potential savings don't outweigh the costs of a failure. 
snip
Well, even that statement isn't a hard & fast rule (as far as I'm concerned) I don't 
think I've ever bought an OEM bearing for a transmission (well, 
execpt for the needle bearings in the transfer case). In fact, I 
usually buy heavy duty bearing for the tranny when I need to replace 
them.
But in general I agree. If it's a quality part, even if it is by TRW 
or whoever, I'll use it.

> Mark Freeman
> 1975 109 one tonne diesel
oh yeah?
 

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@cdr.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:49:04 -0500
From: hansonpa@mail.milwaukee.k12.wi.us (Paul Hanson)
Subject: Re:Need a  GM "Rochester" Carb.

Greetings ALL!
          I have a '73 SER-3 swb and would like to find a good used Carb.[
Weber, Solex, Zenith etc.]. I have been told that an older GM single barrel
will fit.  If anyone out there has a good used carb. for sale please send
them my way.  If you know the application for the GM , please let me know
so that I can start contacting the local bone yards.
          Thanks!!!
          Paul Hanson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:07:07 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Tip of the day

Throw a couple of golf tees into your favorite spares nesting area for 
those occaisions when you need to plug a fuel line.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Rally Date correction
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:36:44 +0000

Rally has been moved up 20 years and will be held this year, July 11-13 1997.

sorry 'bout that

Rgds
Steve Bradke       96 Discovery
WA2GMC             72 S lll 88 (For Sale)
                   68 S lla 88                 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:58:07 +0100
From: The Big Guy <guru@manhole.ow.nl>
Subject: License built SI correction

Howdi,

After reading the reply from David Cockey, my memory was "jogged". This 
vehicle is indeed a Belgian built Minerva and not a Santana (Santana 
stuck in my head as I almost bought one ;-) ). As for the carb I would 
believe David before myself as its been almost a year since I really 
looked at it. As for the condition though I made no exagerations ;-).

Cheers,
Todd

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:08:40 -0700
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Another tip of the day

My recently rebuilt 88" started stopping today - wife described it as
"like it's running on kangaroo petrol" (diesel) - wait a moment - starts
again and runs fin, soon, stops again.

Having only rebuilt the fuel tank a week ago, I suspected something
wrong in this area - so I decided to check. When I dismantled it 14 days
ago, I noticed that I had been running since my last rebuild two years
ago with the tank tubes swapped - thus having a un-filtered feed tube to
the pump (via sedimentation filter) and a nice filteres
(gauze-condommed) return pipe. I just assumed that I must have put it
together wrongly last time around, and diesel in Denmark being usually
free of junk, I had not had any problems.

So last week's reassembly involved swopping the pipes so that the feed
line had the gauze filter.

Tonight I dismantled the tubes and removed them for inspection - and I
could see that the gauze on the feed tube was clogged and pressed tight
against the end of the tube.

Took a measuring pin and held it againts a T-square, dropping pin
through pipe hole into the tank, and discovered that although my pipe is
about 5-10mm shorter than the depth of the tank, that exactly below the
pipe is the recessed dome which holds the drain-plug - the pipe (and
it's gauze condom) was pushed tight against the drain-plug in the bottom
of the tank.

Reassembled the lot just to test theory - by tightening the 2 screws
which hold the feed pipe flange onto the tank top I was able to squeeze
the cork gasket enough to "lengthen" the pipe, and thus choke the supply
of diesel.

I could swap them back again - but that leaves me without a gauze on the
feed pipe - and it is made for a reason. I could also unbraize the pipe
from it's flange and shorten it by 5mm or so, but that takes time, so I
plumped for a small but delicate bend of about 5° near the top of the
pipe, so that it points away from the drain plug and sits a little
higher.

Vupti! It works again! Anyone else seen this problem before? It seems
that even Genuine LR tanks differ - our 1973 88" foster-vehicle (in
care) has a totally different tank design and pipe layout.

I have also discovered why many attempts to repair a failing fuel guage
sender on the 109" have been thwarted - the sender float swings in
exactly the right direction to foul with the return downpipe in the tank
- so if the sender is installed in an empty tank, the float will only go
half-way up, and if it is installed when the tank is full, the float
raised under mounting, and the float will only go half way down - my
fuel line is too short to allow the sender to rotate the 30 degrees
which is necessary for the float to raise and fall with fuel level
without fouling the downpipe. A new or extended fuel line is now on the
list for a rainy day's work. But at least I have found the answer to the
problem!

Land Rovers! there is always something....

--
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)      +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)      +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data      +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)      +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)      +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT       +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail        channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail) channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:46:25 -0700
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Mathilda's Hesitation /Dieseling - part Duh

At 06:59 AM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>> (Can you guess why I take bart?)  8^)

>I thought it was because your cars lived at Scottys 8*)

Ouch...  8^)  (Still, last time I worked in Walnut Creek I still took Bart,
even though the Rovers were working fine.)

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:23:52 -0400
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: IQ test update

If you have tested and checked everything, then by this time the problem 
is most likely something quite obvious. Known as the "reverse repair" 
syndrome, it occurs when you have spent too much time thinking about and 
fiddling with the problem.
Take a long break, and then go back to the beginning. Start with the 
spark plugs, check for fouling and gap, try to start it, if that doesn't 
work...work your way slowly backwards through the ignition system. Check 
the plug wires, be sure the point gap is properly set, then try a new 
condenser, the HT lead, and then try the coil, then the switch, solenoid, 
and batteries and so on...each time trying to start it. The problem will 
surface like a bloated whale.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:50:34 -0600
From: Chris Brosious <brosious@pogo.den.mmc.com>
Subject: Solihull Society Meeting Change

All,
Sorry for the posting to both lists; I wanted to make sure folks
recieved this.

The next General Meeting of the Solihull Society that was scheduled for
Tuesday June 10, 1997 at Elliot Farm and Tractor has been moved.  It
will now be on Saturday June 21 1997 at the same location.  In addition
to the General Meeting, a 'Part Swap', Barbeque, and light 4 wheeling
are now included.  The 'part swap' starts at 10:30 am, BBQ lunch
follows; the General Meeting is scheduled for 12:30 pm and 'playing'
follows the General meeting.  The club will provide burgers and brats,
folks will have to bring a dish of some kind too.  Look for further
details in the next club newslettter.

Chris Brosious
'94 D90

------------------------------

From: "achim schrade " <asirish@iol.ie>
Subject: Help to start needed - first purchase
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:55:42 +0100

Hello to all out there,

as a new member of the list (passive for a few weeks) I'd like to place my
first question (but expect, it will not be the last!). 

I hope to get some advice to the following project (becomming a LRO! -
whow!):

After looking for a LR for a long time (just a few weeks, but too long),
I'd like to buy the following 'bargain':

1985 Land Rover Country 90 , SWB, diesel, power steering, new chassis,
tested, in very good condition
Price irish pound 4,500 (~6000$).

What I know:
 
- I should buy a series LR (my next project ???)
- all in all 160,000 miles
- new engine after 110,000 miles, new engine is from Leyland (2.3l, 2.5l ?)
- new chassis from 1996 (the old one took a bumper-crash(?) and the rust
away)

What I don't know:

- what diesel engines for LR have been built by Leyland (so that it would
be 'original')
- means 'new chassis' in every case 'new frame' too (or is it just the
same)
- what (expensive) main-faults have I to expect (and to prove) at that LR

As I meet the owner (and the LR) in two days, I would be happy about any
(and I mean any) advice.

Thanks in advance

Achim Schrade

Republic of Ireland, Co. Donegal

Non-LRO so far, but hopefully that changes soon 

------------------------------

From: lenny@fof.coracle.com (Lenny Warren)
Date: 09 Apr 97 21:22:44 +0000
Subject: sound deadining kit!

From: lenny@fof.coracle.com (Lenny Warren)

As I'd taken the day off work today, I fitted the sound deadening kit to 
my Landie, tis a diesel. I got the vinyl coated full kit from BJ 
Acoustics who advertise in LROi. It was UKP 95 + UKP 5 for postage. I'm 
impressed, it makes a difference. However, the only way to make a Landie 
truly quiet is to keep it turned OFF!!!!! ;-)

I think I may get a few more of the bitumen pads, they are designed to 
stop a panel reverberating!! 
 
Catch you later,
Lenny...                                                                  12/4
_____________________________________________________________________________
                                                        ______
  Lenny Warren,                                      __/__[__]
  Strathaven, Scotland, UK.                         [________]
  1980 ser III 88" Diesel        "LURCH"         ____(o)___(o)____
_____________________________________________________________________________

... Captain Peacock - I will not have rough workman's hands inside my bra!
--- Terminate 4.00/Pro
--
| Fidonet:  Lenny Warren 2:259/36.12
| Internet: lenny@fof.coracle.com

------------------------------

From: lenny@fof.coracle.com (Lenny Warren)
Date: 09 Apr 97 21:15:34 +0000
Subject: Overdrive ...

From: lenny@fof.coracle.com (Lenny Warren)

Ok folks, collective brain-storming session!!!

It's the overdrive on my Ser III. I checked the oil today, but since I 
don't have any info on it, there are a few queries about it!

It's a Fairey O/D.

I presume it's EP90 oil in it????

The dipstick, it has a mark at the bottom of it. Is this the MINIMUM 
level???? Do you take the level with the plug screwed in, or just 
sitting in without tightening up the threads??? How far up the dipstick 
should the oil come???? How often do you advise checking it???

Anyway, the oil was halfway up, so I gave it a little squirt for luck. 
I'll need to fit a hollow bolt and tube to the inspection plate to stop 
the oil coming out the breather hole with the split pin in it! Anyone 
done this????

Thanks in advance folks!!!! :-)
 
Catch you later,
Lenny...                                                                  11/4
_____________________________________________________________________________
                                                        ______
  Lenny Warren,                                      __/__[__]
  Strathaven, Scotland, UK.                         [________]
  1980 ser III 88" Diesel        "LURCH"         ____(o)___(o)____
_____________________________________________________________________________

... I am Roy Chubby Brown of Borg. Assi..assy..assu..ASSHOLE!
--- Terminate 4.00/Pro
--
| Fidonet:  Lenny Warren 2:259/36.12
| Internet: lenny@fof.coracle.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:57:12 -0400
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Clutch plates

Jack Walter wrote:

>standard passenger car 57 chevy - 10-1/2" clutch disc -

That fits??  The Rover's is 9.5"....

Try: AP NHB1527, CEW 51226/36 or Vera HB1527.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Jack Walter)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:40:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Clutch plates

oops! I meant 9-1/2" - like I suggested it's always a good idea to take
the old part with you to make sure it matches up - sorry for the
confusion

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:48:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Rubber O ring in the valve cover question

Hi all,

While doing routine maintenance this evening, I took off the breather valve
from the valve cover.  The rubber sealing O ring had become brittle and broke
up into pieces, some of which dropped down into the innards under the valve
cover.

Question:  Can I just leave them in there bouncing around until the next time
a set the valves (probably next oil change in 3-4 months) or do I need to
take off the valve cover now and clean out the rubber bits?

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:31:46 -0700
From: Jeremy John Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Overdrive ...

Lenny Warren wrote:
> snip
> I presume it's EP90 oil in it????
>Yes.
 
> The dipstick, it has a mark at the bottom of it. Is this the MINIMUM
> level???? Do you take the level with the plug screwed in, or just
> sitting in without tightening up the threads??? How far up the dipstick
> should the oil come???? How often do you advise checking it???

The Superwinch manual/instructions say check it weekly with the threads
screwed all the way in. "Dipstick reading should be obtained by screwing fully
into place."  It doesn't state but it seems to me that the mark
is the minimum level

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: "David Cockey" <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Overdrive ...
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:41:05 -0400

An overdrive question from Lenny:
> Anyway, the oil was halfway up, so I gave it a little squirt for luck. 
> I'll need to fit a hollow bolt and tube to the inspection plate to stop 
> the oil coming out the breather hole with the split pin in it! Anyone 
> done this????

I seem to recall a thread a year or so ago on this topic. As I recall the
mod was the intallation of an axle breather fitting. Anyone have the
details?

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

From: VossMotors@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:52:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Haynes Manual "Land Rovers

I also have brand new, never been opened, still in plastic wrap, hardbound
Haynes Land Rover Workshop Manuals for Series Land Rovers, '58-85, and I'll
sell them for $25 ea.  Also have Defender Diesel Manuals for same price.

VossMotors@AOL.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 04:51:36 UT
From: "K. JOHN WOOD" <JWROVER@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Rubber O ring in the valve cover question

Dear OOPS!,
Depending on the size of the rubber bitts??? You can stay and work or go and 
do it later. If they are large enough to lodge on the riser spring coil I'd 
remove the valve cover and clean.

Yours ,
The Original OOPs! Master

----------
From: 	NADdMD@aol.com
Sent: 	Thursday, April 10, 1997 7:48 PM
Subject: 	Rubber O ring in the valve cover question

New ! Improved ! http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/

Hi all,

While doing routine maintenance this evening, I took off the breather valve
from the valve cover.  The rubber sealing O ring had become brittle and broke
up into pieces, some of which dropped down into the innards under the valve
cover.

Question:  Can I just leave them in there bouncing around until the next time
a set the valves (probably next oil change in 3-4 months) or do I need to
take off the valve cover now and clean out the rubber bits?

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:22:55 -0400
From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Subject: Re: Slick 50 ???????

At 06:09 PM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:

>The reason why it's not a permanent additive could be that it is a
>"treatment" product, which if in the motor oil permanently, may
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 8 lines)]
>Still I have my doubts - I would love to hear what experience others
>have!

	Well, here's my understanding of the Teflon additives. Most of this
information comes from the modern sports car world, so it may not apply as
effectively to the Series trucks. And, remember that musings on automotive
oil closest to a necessary philosophy than anything else. I know this has
cropped up in the past (or maybe it was another list), but no one has said
anything recently, so here goes...
	Polytetrafloeraethylene is trademarked by the DuPont company as Teflon.
Oil additives containing Teflon or PTFEs are usually merely conventional
engine oil with PTFE powder held in suspension. Over a decade ago, DuPont
strongly recommended against the use of PTFEs as engine additive. They went
on to threaten legal action against anyone using the name Teflon on oil
products destined for internal combustion engines, and tried to cutoff
their supply of PTFE for such uses. They failed with the second act as US
law prevents selling a product to someone just because they intend to do
something with it that it wasn't intended for. Similarly, DuPont was
unwilling to prove that PTFE additives had harmful effects on engines.
Additive makers were also buying PTFE material from other countries and
non-genuine (to call on a similar situation in the LR world) sources.
Sometimes additives using the copycat PTFE are touted as containing an
alternate brand name (it's not DuPont's, after all). There's more to the
story which is very well described in an article on oil additives running
around. 
	The upshot is that PTFEs are solid. They have a strong tendency to coat
and stick to surfaces. Here's where the negative effect may occur. If the
additive sticks to surfaces where a great amount of friction occurs,
doesn't it follow that areas of low friction could potentially pick up more
additive? This would have the negative effects of acting much like plaque
in the arteries of a human being. Oil ways and filters are blocked which
leads to oil starvation and a lack of lubrication. Also, PTFEs expand under
heat, so an additive manufacturer claiming their PTFEs are small enough to
pass through an oil filter may only be telling the truth if the engine is
cold.
	The general concensus among those conducting research and investigation of
PTFEs in additives is that while the additives may not necessarily have a
direct detrimental effect on an engine, they do not provide worthwhile
benefits. They may also indirectly cause oil starvation, though, and that's
definitely bad.
	As a last example, Briggs&Stratton took two of their engines off their
assembly line and subjected one to conventional oil and the other to
conventional oil with PTFE additives. Both engines ran for twenty hours,
were drained of oil, and run for another 20 hours. Upon teardown, both
engines showed virtually identical wear except for heavy cylinder bore
damage on the engine with additives, an indication of oil starvation.
	I have no idea how any of this applies to the 2.25L engine in our Landys.
Our beasts are large, heavy, and operate relatively slowly compared to
modern day engines. The high performance engines of today have many more
areas where oil clogs could occur and cause problems. The 2.25L may be
relatively impervious to this. I don't know.
	My personal feeling is that I wouldn't risk it. The huge oil companies
haven't added the "wonder" additives for a reason, so who are you more
likely to trust?
	I do have a copy of the article that contains more information on this
subject. Feel free to contact me for a copy...

Jeff G.

Boston, MA
1971 88" Series IIA Land Rover
1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
1991 Range Rover Hunter 

 Fusion Films, Inc.
  **Film&Broadcast Visual FX and Compositing**
    http://www.mv.com/ipusers/fusion

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:52:51 -0400
From: David L Glaser <dlglaser@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Slick 50 & Synthetic Oil

About 2 weeks ago I passed by LRNA's HQ in Lanham MD.  I ran into John
Cummings, who built the off-road track and many of the demo courses at
the centers.  John has a '95 Defender softtop with 75k miles.  His
company is based in Texas, but every 2 weeks he drives to LRNA to do
some work.  Hes been adding Slick 50 since new.  When his 90 runs better
than new.  He told me LR is amazed how well the car is holding up,
they've never seen a 75k mile Defender before.

After speaking to John I've contemplating adding some Slick to my
engine, but I was told by many mechanics that since I change my oil
every 3500 miles there is no need for it.

I know this topic was covered a while ago, but I only joined the list a
month ago.  How much better is synthetic vs regular?  Right now I use
Quaker State, thats what my LR dealer uses.  But I'm considering
changing to Mobil 1.  What is the best oil out there?
Thanks

Rover On,
David L Glaser              '94 La Ruta Maya Discovery #6 (MayaTruk)
dlglaser@wam.umd.edu

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Slick 50 & Synthetic Oil
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 11:26:02 +0100
From: Simon Ward-Hastelow <simon.110.v8@dial.pipex.com>

>Hes been adding Slick 50 since new.  When his 90 runs better
>than new.  He told me LR is amazed how well the car is holding up,
>they've never seen a 75k mile Defender before.

Never seen a 75k mile Defender ????????

I think your dealer friend has taken boasting/missinformation to new 
heights

the Landrover 110/90 were renamed Defenders in 1989/90 after the 
introduction of the Discovery so If Landrover have never seen a Defender 
with over 75,000 miles that must mean that all owners of Defenders have 
never done more than 10,000 miles per year, even the earliest owners  -  
I think not.

I've seen Discoveries with over 200,000 miles on the clock.

Ask him to check his figures and borrow a calculator if he needs to.

Simon W-H
'85 110 V8

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Tip of the day
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 11:26:21 +0100
From: Simon Ward-Hastelow <simon.110.v8@dial.pipex.com>

>Throw a couple of golf tees into your favorite spares nesting area for 
>those occaisions when you need to plug a fuel line.
>Bill Adams

I've had half a dozen of these in my tool box for years after seeing a 
guy using them when he tuned my V8, they really do come in handy, not 
just for blocking pipes/tubes etc, I used one to hold the choke linkage 
open on the carb to start it up after the cable broke, also being plastic 
you dont have to worry about them damaging/scoring/scratching anything 
and they are not electrically conductive. A wonder product that is 
obviously wasted on the tee.

Simon W^E-H
'85 110 V8

------------------------------

From: N4PTK@InfoAve.Net
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:31:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Rubber O ring in the valve cover question

Nate,

        My guess is that they will simply wash down the oil return
holes to the bottom of the crankcase.  They can't be picked up through
the oil screen, so they will just stay there and not cause any problem
until your next oil change.  I wouldn't worry about them.

        Course, now that I've said that, they will probably destroy
something!  

Larry
n4ptk@infoave.net

------------------------------

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