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From: lroshop@idirect.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:39:55 +0000
Subject: Re: Capstan winch line

I think you will find the optional equipment parts catalogue by 
Land Rover to be of use.
> Frank

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]

> Frank
LRO SHOP (NORTH AMERICA)

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:38:04 -500
Subject: IIA Panel Key Question

Thanks TeriAnn.  Thought I was having a bad dream with that RN page.
A second panel question.  The combo key/lamp switch is my favorite LR
part, but my key is a duplicate rustable steel "Curtis UN18" type.  I'm
sure the original key had more character.  Do you know what it looked
like?  Was it solid brass? Where can I get the real McCoy?  Mark

PS. Have you ever drunk from the Lombardi Spring tap on Route 92
near Half Moon Bay?

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:49:59 -0400
Subject: Re: IIA Panel Key Question

Re: Keyed-up:

The original keys have fairly little character - no panache at all.

I would definitely recommend a duplicate made in brass, though. The steel
key will eventually (if it hasn't already) chew up the wards in the lock
and the guides that hold the key itself in position.

Replacement cylinders are cheap, though, so replacing the whole lot with
real LR stuff will run you 10-12 dollars for the cylinder and 2 keys.

                              ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:14:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" <swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: No Worries

All,

Please excuse my french (no offense intended towards any of our LRO's from
France, of course), but GODDAMMIT!  Everyone has to get the last word in
on the two major issues that have been discussed at length.   I have
been a member of this list for well over 3 years now, and never before
have I been this frustrated by non-LR bantering.

I don't have a problem with non-LR content, just so long as it does not
appear to be traded by two-year olds.  I apologize for all of this, but
enough is enough.  A good natured exchange of ideas is helpful for a list
like this, even if it doesn't have anything to do with land rovers.  It
builds comeraderie (sp) and usually makes me laugh at work (you know how
work can be).

'Nuff said.  Sorry for wasting your bandwidth.  If you agree with me, or
have comments, please send them directly to me!

Happy Rovering and keep the faith,
steve

	_________________________________
	|_______|_______|_______|_______|	"Moose"
	|   ____________    |	   |	\\	'73 III 88"
	|  /  	  |	\   |  	   |	 \\      ________
     	|  |	  |	|   |	   |	  \\    |        |
	|  \______|_____/   |______|_______\\___|________|__
	|___________________|_______________|---------------\
	|  []    []    []   |		    | 0		    |)
	|                   |--]	    |               |		
       _|    /	 OOOOO      |		    |      OOOOO    |__
      |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____|
	   0  OO o 0 o OO			OO o 0 o OO
	       OO  o  OO     "Tread Lightly"     OO  o  OO
              	 OOOOO				   OOOOO
       		           Florida Rover Canvas
	Steve Swiger   
	swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu
	

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:33:55 -0500
From: Clare & Lee Dunkelber <104514.3120@compuserve.com>
Subject: Shake and Shimmy (noncommercial)

Hello, all!
Just got a '91 Range Rover.  Now that I've got it home, I notice a shake
and a shimmy in the steering, but mostly only between 63-67 mph.   It comes
and goes fom quiet ride, back to quiet ride.
I have noticed the power steering container seems to be leaking at the top.
 Is there supposed to be a gasket there?  Could that be the answer, for
already have I refilled the container.  Could it be seals?  Could it be a
whale of a repair bill (which would be more "Land-Roverly correct")?  Is it
possible that the '91 Range Rover can coordinate its breakdowns so that the
D-90 is available as a daily driver, and vice versa?  I feel that was a
stupid question, and will leave it at that. 
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 8:34:40 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Rusting D90 doors

Go to your nearest marine supply. There you'll find oodles of 
self-etching primers. Go forth and derust.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:42:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Shake and Shimmy (noncommercial)

Re: Shake at specific speeds:

Personally, i'd check the bushings second, but first go get your tires on
the front balanced.

I had a 67 Chevy that did that......8*)

Honestly, what you're describing is a harmonic vibration from tire balance.
Should be simple to fix.

Re: Defender and Rangie coordinating breakdowns:

Wouldn't know - don't trust them there compyouterized cars.....8*)

          aj"Computers belong on DESKS!"r

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 8:47:12 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Oh Capstan, my Capstan....

I have a "first edition" 2A manual from 1963 and it covers the capstan 
winch AFA overhaul and installation are concerned. No Part numbers or 
anything.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Shake and Shimmy (noncommercial)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:07:00 PST

I'd suspect the wheel balance or perhaps the tracking for a shake over such 
a narrow speed range. Any mechanical problem would probably get 
progressively worse as the speed went up. Could be a very cheap problem, 
there's a rarity with Land Rovers:-)

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT, Wish I could reach the dizzy heights of 
63-67mph!
 ----------
From: Clare & Lee Dunkelber
Subject: Shake and Shimmy (noncommercial)
Date: 25 February 1997 08:33

Hello, all!
Just got a '91 Range Rover.  Now that I've got it home, I notice a shake
and a shimmy in the steering, but mostly only between 63-67 mph.   It comes
and goes fom quiet ride, back to quiet ride.
I have noticed the power steering container seems to be leaking at the top.
 Is there supposed to be a gasket there?  Could that be the answer, for
already have I refilled the container.  Could it be seals?  Could it be a
whale of a repair bill (which would be more "Land-Roverly correct")?  Is it
possible that the '91 Range Rover can coordinate its breakdowns so that the
D-90 is available as a daily driver, and vice versa?  I feel that was a
stupid question, and will leave it at that.

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:12:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Oh Capstan, my Capstan....

RE: O Capstan.....

Calling yourself an Ancient marier, there Bill?

          aj"O, the days of punishment lines..."r

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: compyouterized cars
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:15:00 PST

Glad my 110 is pre-Defender, only piece of electronics is the radio 
cassette, just like a series landie (please let me stay on this list, I 
don't want to join the discussions about electric seat switches and CD 
changers on the RRO list:-))

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT (next landie will be series..or a 101:-) )
_____________

Re: Defender and Rangie coordinating breakdowns:

Wouldn't know - don't trust them there compyouterized cars.....8*)

          aj"Computers belong on DESKS!"r
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

They also make good doorstops:-)

------------------------------

From: wleacock@pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:20:17 -0500

Nate writes 
ent to Sears and bought a 1 11/16 socket and a 1/2 to 3/4 adaptor.  The
socket fit and I would recommend putting a 3 foot section of pipe to the end
of a 18" socket handle.  I applied a steady firm pressure at the end and the
nut came loose without even one blow from the 8 lb "fine adjustment tool"
(read sledge).

So, 1 11/16 socket is the one.

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

 I would not recommend using a 1/2 " square drive to undo the starter dog,
there is a high probability that something will break,and not the startere
dog.  Simply, the  small square is not capable of transmitting the required
torque to undo a tight starter dog.  The 3 foot pipe plus 18" bar is the
clue.  In addition there are a lot of inferior quality tools out there.
  Use the 3/4" as a minimum.

Bill Leacock	Limey in exile
89 RR; 67 - 109 and  early 88.

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:20:34 -0400
Subject: Re: compyouterized cars

Re: Scott Davies' wish to stay here with the ancient leaf-springers:

Only if you promise to call it a Series IV.....8*)

          aj"And why not?"r

------------------------------

From: wleacock@pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:26:21 -0500
Subject: Capstan

From: "FHYap" <FHYap@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Capstan winch line
 
Does anyone know if LR provided a manual for their capstan winches?

Frank

 The ser 1 and early s er 2 Genuine LR manuals have details of the aeroparts
winch. 
 regards 

Bill Leacock	Limey in exile
89 RR; 67 - 109 and  early 88.

------------------------------

Subject: Re: 	The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 08:27:10 -0600
From: "Keith W. Cooper" <kwcooper@aristotle.net>

>Hard to believe that someone would blow off the buy over $20 worth of 
>parts. Did you mention that you had just driven it from Florida? Oh well.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>after starting ( gee, a small battery drain maybe?) and after a few 
>minutes, falls to 0 charging. No ignition system means no real current 
>draw save accessories.

>Bill Adams
>3D Artist/Animator
>'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
>"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

Bill-
As always thanks for your help.  You're right, it seems strange to scrap
a deal over a glow plug, but I'm actually relieved.  I was willing to
part with my rover "Buford" for the right price (heck, who on the list 
wouldn't),
but now that the sale is off (or on hold for glow-lugs ???) I can get 
back to
the fun tinkering.

I think I need to replace the entire wiring harness.  Its the original 
cloth
wrapped one and seems to be a little old, with quite a few questionable 
connections.
I think by doing this whole electrical system workover, I could really 
get 
in there and fix some stuff up.  I may even take it back to positive 
ground 
(it was converted somewhere along the way).  Would there be any real 
advantage 
to these measures?  I've recently had the dynamo re-built and don't think 
its
the culprit for these strange voltage drops.  It could be a worn-out 
regulator or
the like.

Thanks again.
Keith

Keith W. Cooper,MD
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
*            Dept. of Family and Community Medicine - UAMS              *
*           co-founder -   "Arkansas Land Rover Association"            *
*                 1965 Series IIA 88" Diesel - "Buford"                 *
*                          1996 Discovery SE                            *
*    Visit my page at - http://www.aristotle.net/~kwcooper/LRV.html     *
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:36:09 +0000
Subject: Re: Rusting D90 doors

>> A friend of mine with a '94 D90 Hardtop hybrid just recently
>> discovered rust on the inside of his doors.  Well, fearing the
>> worst, I plan on

>I don't now about the Defenders, but with series IIIs the rust on the
>doors can only be combatted fully by stripping the aluminium cladding

Cure it???? Hell!!! Bodge it.

I jus gouged a hole in the rust in the frame sections at the bottom to let he 
water out, and stuck my Waxoyl injector tube up the resulting 
holes........

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:47:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusting doors

One thing that exists on the bottoms of the Series doorframes is a drain to
allow water OUT of the frame in the event any gets in....often plugged with
rust and crap on most doors I have no doubt.

When I rebuilt Mr. Churchill's doors, i made sure that these holes were
plesent and clear, specifically so I could get up into the door bits with a
rustproofing sprayer or the like. For those trying to determine a course of
action, adding these if not there or clearing the ones there might be a
good idea (to echo Andy Woodward's thoughts....).

               aj"I HATE RUST"r

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: compyouterized cars
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:53:00 PST

What if I call it a stage 2? This was the original project name I believe.

Scott Davies '85 110 (stage 2) 2.5D HT
 ----------

Re: Scott Davies' wish to stay here with the ancient leaf-springers:

Only if you promise to call it a Series IV.....8*)

          aj"And why not?"r

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: compyouterized cars

Oh, very well, if you must.....8*)

          aj"Can't count higher than IIa...8*)  "r

>What if I call it a stage 2? This was the original project name I believe.

>Scott Davies '85 110 (stage 2) 2.5D HT
 ----------

>>Re: Scott Davies' wish to stay here with the ancient leaf-springers:

>>Only if you promise to call it a Series IV.....8*)

          >>aj"And why not?"r

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:13:54 -0500
From: "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" <medone@iag.net>
Subject: Lost Note

Afew weeks ago someone wanted to sell two LR front plates. The person was from the 
UK. I offered to buy them but lost the address. If your on the NET would you please 
contact me.
Thanks
Benjamin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:19:01 -0500
From: "Benjamin G. Newman,MD" <medone@iag.net>
Subject: 24 Volts

I have a strong interest in buying`an ex-Mod in great condition but it has a 24 volt 
system. What are the advantages and disavantages of this system? What would a place 
like RN charge to change to a 12 volt system.
Thanks as always,
Benjamin

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: 24 Volts
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 15:25:27 GMT

> I have a strong interest in buying`an ex-Mod in great condition but it has a 24 volt 
> system. What are the advantages and disavantages of this system? What would a place 
> like RN charge to change to a 12 volt system.

I'm running a 24v system quite successfully.
There aren't any real disadvantages, except some of the parts can be harder
to find or are more expensive. In the UK this isn't too bad, as secondhand
"generators" (2.5kWH alternator) and the like can be found at places like
Old Sodbury (mine was L25, compared to L500 refurbished, and L900 Genuine
Parts). Bulbs can be got at your local truck place/dealership.

I hear that the heater is the most expensive bit to replace when going over
to 12v. The price quickly adds up, anyway.

If you go for 24v you may want to dump a lot of the shielding - eg. I now
run with the civvie coil and distributor. The distribtor and screened
sparks were too much trouble for their own worth, and at 20 pounds for 
a replacement mil. spark plug...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR with civvie ht electrics)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:15:12 GMT
From: "T. Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Tie-rod end question...

Michel writes:
>I have difficulty fitting ties-rod ends to the Ser IIA. It seems that when I
>turn the crown nut to bolt them to the swivel-pin housing, the ball-joint
>turns inside the casing, thus imposible to get it on tight. I only have the

I use a pair of C-jaw mole grips to clamp the ball joint to the steering arm
on the swivel housing. I suppose a G-clamp might work, as long as you could
still get a spanner on the nut with the clamp in place.

Tom
________________________________________________________________________
Thomas D.I. Stevenson			gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
SNL Mussel Project			Tel: 01475 530581
University Marine Biological Station, Millport	Fax: 01475 530601
Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland KA28 OEG		http://www.gla.ac.uk/Acad/Marine

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:56:34 -0500
From: Mike Gaines <106220.1234@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re; Terge Krogdahl/Auto Sparks ANSWER

Hi Terge
 Auto Sparks is at 80-88 Derby Road, Nottingham, NG10 5HU.  
Tel is +(44)-1602-497211, fax is +(44) 1602 491955. 
They advertise looms for all Series LRs and for early RRs

2] Perhaps a way to bin the unwanted advertisers who keep pushing their
brochures on the list ad nauseum would be for us all to request  said
brochure every day till they quit using the list or go bankrupt  with the
maiiling costs?

Mike Gaines,Slll L/Wt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:57:39 -0800
From: Joe Schaefer <joes@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: Low Sulphur Diesel.

At 11:27 25-02-97 +0000, you wrote:
>I,ve been talking to a local,and competant,mechanic on the subject
>of diesel fuel,after two of the departmental vans were seen by the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 39 lines)]
>complete combustion.Sounds hopeful.Whacky,but hopeful.
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

Mike,
 FWIW here's my experience with high sulphur diesel. IT SUCKS!
I ran my commercial fishing boat (4-71 Detroit dsl) back and forth between
WA state and AK for over 10 years. Compared to US(low sulphur) dsl fuel
Canada's is considered high sulphur. What you probably consider 'ordinary'.
I always stopped in Ketchikan, AK to top off my fuel so I wouldn't have to
stop in Canada for fuel. I did it twice though. It smokes, it stinks and a
4-71 does NOT like running it. Performance went noticeably down. 
My combo cook/heat stove barely ran on it. Normal setting was 1 to 1 1/2
(out of ten possible) with high sulphur in there I'd have to run it at 7
just to keep the thing from sooting up. The dsl mechanics (boat)I've talked
to around here say to avoid sulphur fuel if at all possible because the
sulphur is very abrasive.

Just my $.02
-jj
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe Schaefer
Nordland, WA USA
mailto:joes@olympus.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:25:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Low Sulphur Diesel.

On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Joe Schaefer wrote:

>  FWIW here's my experience with high sulphur diesel. IT SUCKS!
> I ran my commercial fishing boat (4-71 Detroit dsl) back and forth between
> WA state and AK for over 10 years. Compared to US(low sulphur) dsl fuel
> Canada's is considered high sulphur. What you probably consider 'ordinary'.

	Must vary regionally.  Last year, going down to the Downeast Rally,
	Dale's diesel smoked its usual amount while going through 
	Canada.  Once we hit the USA, and after we filled up, the smoke 
	coming out went up dramatically.  He didn't go up the hills
	as fast either.  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:39:28 -0500
From: "Bren & Lynne' Workman" <bworkman@alaska.net>
Subject: Ben, I need help.

Hello,
  I am having problems with my list being cropped off the end.  I see by
the table of contents that I am losing about half of the LR Owner List
that is available.  I have no size restrictions set on my in-coming
e-mail.  Should I change to the digest (I don't know what I would miss,
though), burst or real time?  Any suggestions would help.  I missed an
input on Ser III gauges 25Feb97 and probably some other answers to my
lengthy questions.  Thanks for your help and talk to you all later.

> bworkman@alaska.net  '72 Ser III 88"  "Tilly"

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:10:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Land Rovers In US Market

Ron Beckett, <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>, identified a connection
between Land Rover, Hillman and the Rootes Group in the US and posted a
revealing excerpt from an article titled: "The Golden Years of Land Rover -
Series II and IIa: what to choose"

The article is not quite accurate when it states: "Despite Land Rover's
success they hadn't managed to crack the US market."  They were here though.
They just did not have the corporate will to develop the US market.  They
lacked the persistence which is so vital to success.

The comment that "...apart from forestry, rescue and other special tasks,
the Land Rover did not suit US markets."  reveals a complete failure to
understand this market.  Talk about clueless!  This is called marketing
ethnocentrism; assuming that the market in another country is like the home
market.  Just building a left hand drive model with US lighting was not
enough.  It can be instructive to look at a success story to make this
point.

The first Toyotas imported into the US came with three speed transmissions,
column gear shifters, soft springs and bench seats.  (But isn't this what
comes standard on american cars?  Isn't this what the US customer wants?
Therefore, this is what we will offer on our US models.)

Eventually Toyota realized that (except the government) nobody bought a
standard car.  But this was not until they stopped guessing, and began
asking customers.  They also realized it made good sense to hire local
marketing talent.  In time, they even set up design studios in the US where
local designers developed products for the local market.  Persistence paid
off; today Toyota is a major factor in the US market.

Land Rover could have been a major player in the US 4x4 market.  The product
was not the problem, management was.  What was it about the corporate system
in the UK which defied success?

Land Rover products could easily have been adapted to the US market.
Solutions were obvious: More power, better heating and more reliable
electrical systems were needed.  Santana solved the power problem with a 6
cylinder version of the 2.25l engine.  At 3.4l this would also have worked
here.  Fitting the 2.6l six was an attempt to remedy the power issue, but it
was an attempt too timid and too late.

The successful re-entry of Land Rover into the US market shows that success
was possible from the beginning if only the corporate will and understanding
had been present.

See you in the marketplace,

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 15:25:00 est
From: "Brian Hanson/EW/BNL" <Brian_Hanson/EW/BNL_at_BLNOTESMAIL@blwn0009.bausch.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rovers In US Market

>Land Rover could have been a major player in the US 4x4 market.  The
product was not the >problem, management was.  What was it about the
corporate system in the UK which defied >success?
  I've worked for two UK based firms in the past few years and have seen
  the same problem.  For some reason it seems like the UK corporate system
  doesn't want the "colonies" telling it how to run it's business.
  Needless to say, neither one of those two firms I was with was doing very
  well.(And they were big names selling products that everyone needs).

  At least Land Rover seems to have learned from their mistakes and is
  treating the North American market seriously.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:55:39 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub...

>The successful re-entry of Land Rover into the US market shows that 
success
>was possible from the beginning if only the corporate will and 
understanding
>had been present.

If only, if only....
If only they were LESS MONEY way back when, folks would have bought them. 
Sheesh, it's not marketing, it's money!
Hey, if only I were higher paid, I could afford a new one now.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:21:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Land Rovers In US Market

On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 DONOHUEPE@aol.com wrote:

	A very good message, but there is a larger issue here...

> The article is not quite accurate when it states: "Despite Land Rover's
> success they hadn't managed to crack the US market."  They were here though.
> They just did not have the corporate will to develop the US market.  They
> lacked the persistence which is so vital to success.

	When one looks about the Canadian landscape, sees Series vehicles
littering the landscape, so to speak, one wonders what went wrong.  With
Land Rover much of it was Rover moving from Toronto to the United States.
Gone were the 88 & 109 pick-ups, in came a fully spec'd out 88 that simply
cost too much.  LR was part of a larger entity.  That entity was far more
interested in selling MGB's, Triumphs and Marina's et al into the North 
American market.

> market.  Just building a left hand drive model with US lighting was not
> enough.  It can be instructive to look at a success story to make this
> point.

	USA lighting is limited to the 4" amber turn signals.  The wing
markers came in because of Canadian regulations.  The headlamp movement
was Aussie regulations. 

> Land Rover could have been a major player in the US 4x4 market.  The product
> was not the problem, management was.  What was it about the corporate system
> in the UK which defied success?

	A production line running flat out, selling Land Rovers everywhere
else in the world...  Eventually killed by a lack of investment since LR
was helping keep other bits of the British phlegmsucking Leyland empire
afloat. There are couple books on BpsL. 

	Horrid management, terrible labour-management relations (read up
on Speke and the TR-7, "Red Robbo" in the Union, Sir Michael Edwards, Lord
Stokes), In a nutshell, BpsL was to a large extent engineering driven and
autocratic, more concerned with internal politics than the outside world. 
Having the customer do the final testing is the sign of a company
definately out of control. How else do you explain this contemporary joke:
"Why did BL fit a heated rear window to the Austin Allegro?" Answer - "To
keep your hands warm as you pushed it" 

	BpsL, especially after it came under government control, was in
some sense a make work project.  Unproductive, unprofitable lines were
kept alive.  It just existed day to day. This failure is not limited to
Land Rover in the USA.  They blew it with the TR-7, they kept too many
product lines alive competing with each other.  It tells volumes that the
Mini is still with us, not because it was profitable, but becuase they
couldn't afford to kill it. 

	BpsL has too many product lines, never fully rationalised things, 
until it was far to late to do anything.  Land Rover was just a small, 
yet very profitable, segment off in Solihhull, away from the Kremlin 
(brick building in the centre of Longbridge where BpsL was run from.  
Basically the company was in a nosedive by about 1967.  It took until 
1974 for LR to leave NA, until 1981 for the rest of the company to 
collapse over here.

> Land Rover products could easily have been adapted to the US market.

	Yes, but they didn't care.  Not only did they have an attitude
that the LR was good enough for them, thus it was good enough for the
Yanks, but if the entire factory was good enough for grandfather, it was
good enough for today. 

	Scant regard was given to costs, and margins appear to have been
insufficient to enable proper reinvestment in new models notwithstanding
the inefficiencies in the organisation. Companies such as Ford meantime,
were homing in on the UK market more and more and steadily reducing the
whole 'concept to market cycle' enabling them to be more dynamic and hence
responsive. 

	It is telling to use the Mini as an example.  The Mini left the US
shores in 1968.  Why?  Some say crash tests, others emissions.  Yet,
Canada which follows the USA in these things kept the Mini.  Land Rover
stayed past the introduction of emissions until 1974.  The Mini stayed on
in Canada past 1968.  Simple measure were taken for both to meet Cdn
Specs.  Mini even got special bumpers, reinforced doors to keep up with
crash standards.  LR didn't need thus stuff, but drilling a couple holes
in the head for an air pump would have solved our emissions problems. 
Mini stayed until 1981.  LR could of if they cared, but if you are selling
everything you make elsewhere, who cares... 

> electrical systems were needed.  Santana solved the power problem with a 6

	A *Spanish* innovation in a *British* Land Rover?  Horrors!  That
alone answers lots of questions...

> The successful re-entry of Land Rover into the US market shows that success
> was possible from the beginning if only the corporate will and understanding
> had been present.

	But they still leak?  naw, too simple an answer for me.  Land 
Rover has not re-entered the US market to any appreciable extent, unless 
you wish to refer to that new corporate entity called Land Rover , which 
is really a mask over Rover Group, which covers Austin Rover, covering 
Jaguar Rover Triumph, covering ...  all the way back to our friends in 
Longbridge...  The closest thing to the Land Rover, Heritage model if you 
don't mind, that is over here is the Defender.  The latest Range Rover 
offering, is a Range Rover classic, dropped into a microwave for 
a little softening, grenade tossed in, door closed, rounded off pimp 
mobile that costs the moon.  We have its little brother, the Disco 
sitting at around a cool $40k.  We hear rumours from time to time that 
other vehicles will again come to our shores.  What the market wants?  I 
doubt it.  What a very elite market wants.  Success in the USA?  Assuming 
that January sales are a blip, they really don't sell that much over 
here.  They are a bit player in the market, mostly hype.  Success lies 
with Honda, Toyota, etc...

	Once upon a time, back in the 50s and early sixties there was a 
company that made cheap, innovative vehicles.  The MGB was a cheap sports 
car.  Today people drool over the MGF (or whatever it is called) and hope 
it comes to the USA.  Problem is that it is a rather pricy vehicle.  The 
Mini has gone from the peoples car to something that costs a pretty penny 
now.  We hear rumour that it might be sold in New York, for a cool $25k-30k.

	Rover is moving upmarket with a vengence and while they may be 
paying lip service to the days of yore, they are certainly not going for 
the market segment of the likes of you and me...  Over in the UK a recent 
survey found that the vehicle most often found at the side of a road is a 
Rover...  <ouch>  RRNA started in 1987.  It is now LRNA.  Their corporate 
history is all of ten years now.  When they have seen another ten I might 
believe that they could be here for good.  20,000 vehicles a year is not 
success.  They did better than that back in the 1970 with their 
offerings, and they didn't build them any better then.  LR has quality 
problems, I believe there are longevity problems.  Reading about rust 
coming through on vehcies a couple years old just isn't acceptable for 
that kind of cash layout.  I don't see a Lexus rusting as fast and its 
cheaper...

	I digress, time to hit Bob's for some Guinness and Lagavulin...

	Rgds from the tundra...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:23:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub...

On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Adams, Bill wrote:

> If only, if only....
> If only they were LESS MONEY way back when, folks would have bought them. 
> Sheesh, it's not marketing, it's money!

	The Geological Survey Of Canada paid a bit more than $4,200 for
	my 109 station wagon.  A quick hop to Statistics Canada for some
	deflation figures show that they paid a bit more than $44,000
	1997 dollars for the big green beastie...

	You may have a point...

------------------------------

From: Leland J Roys <roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Dual Battery System for Def-90
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:54:34 PST

OK, you talked me into it. I am going to try to install a dual battery
system for my Defender-90. I'll yet you know how it turns out. I am going
to try to fit both batteries into the original under the seat battery
compartment, along with the battery isolator box. I opted for the 800 CCA
(1100 amps warm) Optima sealed battery for the 2nd battery, I think both
batteries will fit under the seat, I will have to drill holes for the new
battery holders and the isolator screws.

If anyone has already tried to fit 2 batteries under the seat and failed, 
please let me know before I try...

I'll see how it works...

Leland Roys
1994 Def-90
roys@cup.hp.com

------------------------------

From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Jack Walter)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:23:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Diesels

Bill - I've owned this diesel wagon since 1978 and had many years of
enjoyment out of it - it took me about three years of looking to find
one back then and it was a bit more beat up than I wanted but after
18-1/2 years I know I'll drive it forever - Eeyore's serial no is
#28400737B and he was originally limestone - now its a rather faded
blue/yellow/bare aluminum but will one day be repainted a nice dove
gray after his namesake once the restoration is completed on 'Pooh'-
this 1967 88 PU (ex-Florida DOT trucklet) that I originally bought back
in 1973. Ironically I sold Pooh to buy Eeyore back in 1978; spent the
next 12 years regretting ever selling my favorite 88 then found Pooh
again and bought it back after negotiating with the owner for about
three years. Pooh was originally pretty close to the AA yellow seen on
current Defender 90s and is currently undergoing a frame up
restoration. 

PS - Ossa is a brand of Spanish motorcycle (Bultaco & Montesa are
contemporaries) - the Pioneer was a 250cc enduro model and my 72 model
is the only brand new vehicle that I have ever bought (I'm 45) - At one
time I had fourteen Ossas including a road racer, a street bike, and a
twin engine 500cc model called a Yankee 500Z. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:30:51 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Land Rover Eco Trek on Discovery Channel

At 08:53 AM 2/25/97 +0700, you wrote:
>>by Land Rover, on the Discovery Channel.  Awsome!!  If only I was in good

>Wow! You guys are lucky to have a channel entirely devoted to LRs!
>Is there a Defender Channel as well???     =8->

Someone once told me there was an ols Series channel, but when I turned it
on, all I saw was reruns of Dick Van Dyke, Taxi, Get Smart, and such...

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 22:33:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Hank Rutherford <ruthrfrd@borg.com>
Subject: Piston Weights

          Jack Walter mentioned piston weights recently and I 
thought I'd pass on a recent experience. Purchased pistons
and some other bits from a company in the UK who shall
remain nameless (if you really want to know, e-mail me direct).
They were of different manufacturers, but labeled similarly, 
under the County label, I think. Call me picky, but out of curiosity
I weighed them and found an 85 gram difference between the two 
brands. This is A LOT of difference! Following the ensuing 
confusion I eventually got a matching piston to complete the set.
However, if this mismatched set were installed together, I'm sure 
my friend wouldn't have been very pleased with the resulting 
vibration/premature catastrophic failure, etc.
           Hope this saves someone some grief,
    
                   Ruthrfrd@borg.com  

------------------------------

Subject: Re: What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub...
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 19:52:46 -0800
From: "G. Mugele" <mewgull@ix.netcom.com>

Bill Said:
>> If only, if only....
>> If only they were LESS MONEY way back when, folks would have bought them. 
>> Sheesh, it's not marketing, it's money!
and Dixon responded:
>	The Geological Survey Of Canada paid a bit more than $4,200 for
>	my 109 station wagon.  A quick hop to Statistics Canada for some
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>	1997 dollars for the big green beastie...
>	You may have a point...

Maybe, but I don't think price was *that* big a factor.  In 1969, when I 
was just a pup, I bought my new IIa 88 for $3,600 US including tax, 
license, dealer prep, undercoating, and everything else you'd expect.  
Warn Hubs were another $99.  At the same time, for the same money I could 
have gotten a BMW 2002 or Fiat 124 Spyder.  Toyota Land Bruisers could be 
had for a bit less but were much more spartan. Porsche 912 was around 
$4,300 and the 911 closer to $5000.
A CJ5, Bronco, and Scout all had a base price about a thousand dollars 
cheaper but then you had to pay more for 4WD, seats for anyone other than 
the driver, and such luxuries as a roof (soft or hard), decent M&S tires, 
a four-speed, and so on.  I priced a Bronco outfitted the same as the 88 
except for a few extra cylinders - it would have been $800 more than the 
Land Rover. I bought the 88 in part because it was more of a bargain than 
the other choices.

I really believe that the biggest issue was a very poor dealer network, 
inconsistant quality, lousy parts availability, (parts for a IIa are 
easier to get today.) and the fact that Rover didn't *need* the American 
market.  As someone pointed out: they could sell more than they could 
build without even caring about this continent.  So why bother to deal 
with all the silly regulatory crap the Yankees were demanding?

Cheers,
Gerry Mugele
*** Indecision is the key to flexibility.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:11:10 -0500
From: "Brian Cramer" <defender@uscom.com>
Subject: Re: Dual Battery System for Def-90

Leland,

Please let me know how you make out.

Cheers,

Brian Cramer
888-434-4678 office
609-273-9708 home
'94 D90 (LRNA #1251)
'90 RR County
'73 SIII swb

At 02:54 PM 2/25/97 PST, you wrote:
>OK, you talked me into it. I am going to try to install a dual battery
>system for my Defender-90. I'll yet you know how it turns out. I am going
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
>1994 Def-90
>roys@cup.hp.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:47:06 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Alternate alternators

Lt. Jeff Jackson wrote:

>I swapped a 90A Delco into my SIII a few months back.

Excellent!  Now, did you change the mounts (fabricate/slice/dice) or was it 
a direct swap?  Enquiting minds want to know.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:47:20 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Capstans

F. H. Yap wrote:

>Does anyone know if LR provided a manual for their capstan winches?

Well, yes and no.  Land Rover never made capstans.  First, they used ones 
made by AeroParts, Ltd.  These were the "round headed" ones withcast 
aluminum roller guides.  Later, they changed to the flat-topped Fairey units.

I have the manual for the AeroParts one.  About three pages.  One of 
installation techniques, the other two for a parts list and exploded drawing.
It should be on the FAQ by now, right Dixon?  ;-)  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:47:18 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Capstan winch line

Marin Faure wrote:

>I am trying to determine the best line to use on a capstan winch.

Well, if you've got a few bucks, look for braided Dacron polyester halyard 
line.  Sampson makes nice one, as do other sailboat vendors.  Low stretch 
(>3%), and 9,000# breaking strength with only 1/2" line.  I bought mine from 
a ship chandler (not a yacht place) and paid about $.85/foot for 200 feet.

If you *really* want to go high-tech, there are aramid halyard lines with 
close to zero stretch.  Pricey, though, about $2 a foot.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Subject: Wiper Locations?
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 23:29:23 -0600
From: "Keith W. Cooper" <kwcooper@aristotle.net>

I have been trying to figure out my '65 Series IIA's wiper arrangement.

I have the older style single speed independent wiper motors and they
work great after I recently re-built them, but I am baffled as to their
proper location.

My rover was originally a regular model (a softop, I assume) and has only
recently been added a tropical roof by the P.O.

Well, currently the wiper motors fit onto the inside of the windscreen 
frame
and pass through three holes drilled in the actual frame.  But for some 
reason, I also
have tow holes drilled into the top of the bulhead just above the vent 
flaps.  I have
noticed that on some rovers, the wipers look like they pass through these 
two holes.

How could it be that I have both?  It would seem more likely that the 
windscreen could
have been changed than the bulkhead.  But if this rover originally had 
wiper hardware
mounted and passing through the tow holes in the bulkhead, what type of 
wiper motors
could have been used?  Surely not the current type requiring three holes 
for proper
mounting.  Maybe I'm just confused, but I know that I've got too many 
holes and water
is coming in and I need to do something to figure this out and either 
replace the windscreen
frame with a new one without holes or get to patching the holes in the 
bulkhead.

Thanks,
Keith

Keith W. Cooper,MD
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
*            Dept. of Family and Community Medicine - UAMS              *
*           co-founder -   "Arkansas Land Rover Association"            *
*                 1965 Series IIA 88" Diesel - "Buford"                 *
*                          1996 Discovery SE                            *
*    Visit my page at - http://www.aristotle.net/~kwcooper/LRV.html     *
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:40:06 -0800
From: Joe Schaefer <joes@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub...

> In 1969, when I 
>was just a pup, I bought my new IIa 88 for $3,600 US including tax, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>Land Rover. 
>Gerry Mugele

FWIW Gerry, a 69 Bronco listed at $2945 with hardtop (they had enough power
where they didn't need a 4 spd.)
69 CJ-5 listed at $2823 w/soft top.
These are dealer prices and no one paid full list price in those days. I
bought a 69 Chev Nova new for $2370 out the door, tax lic etc (not
stripped). A new 1968 Buick Grand Sport convertible(GTO competitor)for $3200.
I'm by no means saying anything good/bad about these vehicles. But it does
show $3600 was a fair piece of change in those days. Definitely an "upper"
mid-class range vehicle. I think 'cost' Definitely had something to do with
poor LR sales. Pay the price of a "luxury" vehicle for something that can't
even do the speed limit?  Also keep in mind 4wd's were not the "in" thing
to own in the 60's. Why pay 25% more for something you're going to plow
snow with or use on the farm?

I do agree marketing was a failing as was the Brit's "it was good enough
for grandpa" live in the past mentality. (just in the past guys :) 
Look at the decline of British motorcycles in the world market. It
parallels the downward spiral of Rover. Poor manufacturing, poor quality
control, poor foresight blah blah ... Being able to fix 'em yourself is a
desirable thing now-a-days, back then most yanks figured you shouldn't have
to fix 'em, at least for awhile and besides 'all' vehicles built in the
60's were easy to repair.

Before I get the "you don't have one, what do you know message", yeah,
you're right I don't own a LR. Maybe I never will. I want one, have for 25
years. I've been running US 4wd drives for almost 30 years. That's one of
the factors that makes me want one. I just can't deal with the "collectors
car" status (cost) of a LR. But if someone wants to sell me a "reasonable
priced LR" (is that an oxymoron?) 109 IIa or III drop me a line :)

Ramble mode off... 

Also I'm the guy who still has foot prints on his *ss for replying to a hub
post so if you feel the need to jump right in please reply directly to save
the rest from what I'm sure is also a well hashed over topic.  ;)

One question before you hit DEL. Hows does LRO-Lite work? What part of the
previous post does it cut off? When replying how do I keep the part of a
previous post that "I" think (not LRO-Lite) is relevant?

Regards,
-jj

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe Schaefer
Nordland, WA USA
mailto:joes@olympus.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:00:06 -0500
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@interlinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Wiper Locations?

At 23:29 97-02-25 -0600, Keith wrote:

>I have been trying to figure out my '65 Series IIA's wiper arrangement.

-schip...-

It is possible that the bulkhead was changed for a later one, but I doubt
it. The wiper arrangement that has two holes in the dash was installed near
1966-67. It features a single wiper motor, with two speeds (Slow and
really-slow). The motor was placed at the left of the steering wheel in the
dash, behind a dash panel (LHD models).The switch was on the instrument
panel. The motor pushed and pulled a steel cable that was in a casing that
was fixed to the dash panel along the windscreen frame. Some gizmos (latin
word) clamped on the wire made the wipers go at the same rythm and speed.

If I were you, I wouldn't plug the holes. I would install a nice set of jets
for the windshield washer just like on the Ser III. Looks original, is
effective, and you sure won't make a fool of yourself like I experience
everytime I stop a t a red light and I get my
Turbo-Pressure-Pump-green-fluo-twin-reservoir-water-blaster-gun out to clean
the windshield. (It works, though)

I am sure that somebody on the list could sell/trade a pair.

Salutations, 

Spring is here on saturday!!!

Michel Bertrand
						______
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 		       /    __
					      /        \
1963 109 PU (Rudolph)	   		     | Lucas    |
1968 109 SW (in the works)		     |  Inside  |
1973 88 SW (21st century project)	      \        /
					       \______/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:25:42 -0700
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Wiper Locations?

At 01:00 AM 26/02/97 -0500, Michel Bertrand, wrote

>If I were you, I wouldn't plug the holes. I would install a nice set of jets
>for the windshield washer just like on the Ser III.

When I cleaned up the insides of my wiper motors last summer and got them
working for the first time in who knows how long I also installed a Canadian
Tire generic washer pump, lines and a reservoir made from an orange juice
container.  I couldn't find a push button control at my local Radio Shack so
I settled for a toggle switch.

Now when I flip the switch to clean the glass about a half litre of washer
fluid floods across the windshield (windscreen) and splashes off the sides
to soak nearby cars before I can flip it off.

But as you say, "Hey, it works."

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada
Aboriginal and International Relief Issues

------------------------------

From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 14:22:00 EST

Ross wrote:
>Ads are pretty good nostalgia and the modern LandRover Sales
>Dept trade on them and "SMHEA" type nostalgia. I think it reinforces the
>character of Defender models etc, and contrasts the characterless,
>pedigreeless jap stuff.

Toyota rarely push the pedigree of the LC and how Thiess Bros
imported them for their contract work on the Snowy Mountains Hydro
Electric Scheme.  (Thiess were earth-moving contractors who eventually
became the Australian importer for Toyota (all I think) until Toyota came in 

and took the franchise away.  Thiess were probably responsible for the LC\
becoming the No.1 4WD in Australia.  They ensured that parts backup was
there from the start and if they didn't have it, they'd get it from Japan 
within
a couple of days.  Essential service for the farmers and miners out back of 
beyond.

>Anyway I have a question about the au-lro list.  Did you post this message
> to the au-lro? Or the us-lro or what? Iam supposedly subscribed to both,
> but can't notice any identifier to pick which list the messages are posted 
to.

No, only to LRO and RRO.

>Didn't the Austin 1800 beat the Rootes Hillman in the London to Sydney?
>(stir- cloak device on)...

SIR!!  Them's fightin' words.  You'll need the Klingon claok device if you 
come
one of our club meetings!  (For others who aren't old enough to know, a
Hillman Hunter won the first London - Sydney marathon race in 1968.)
However, I'd have to admit the Landcrab (the Austin1800 to the uninitiated)
was an excellent rally car.  I beleive it was called a Landcrab not becasue 
if its
looks but because of the way it could corner sideways on dirt.

Best Regards,

Ron Beckett
Editor Hillman Owners Club Of Australia Newsletter "Hillmanews"

Emu Plains, Australia
'87 Range Rover 4.8L auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660
 -  for pictures see  http://www.brigadoon.com/~craigb/hillman/hunter.html

------------------------------

From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Smiths Gauges
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 14:42:00 EST

In response to queries about Smiths gauges, they are readliy available 
again.  The Australian distributor regularly advertises (full colour full 
page ads) in "Australian Classic Car" magazine.  I think they're called 
Smiths Classic gauges.  I know where the distributor is 'cos they were just 
next door to a place where I bought some used tyres but do you think I can 
think of their name or the street name.  Old Timers disease.

I don't have any of the mags with me but I can look up the info and get back 
if anyone in Oz is interested.

I'm fairly sure that similar adverts exist in the British mag "Practical 
Classics"  - I can check that one too.

Best Regards,

Ron Beckett
Editor Hillman Owners Club Of Australia Newsletter "Hillmanews"

Emu Plains, Australia
'87 Range Rover 4.8L auto
'67 Hillman Gazelle
'71 Hillman Hunter Royal 660
 -  for pictures see  http://www.brigadoon.com/~craigb/hillman/hunter.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:13:53 +0700
From: Tony Yates <a.yates@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: 

Ron wrote:

>Toyota rarely push the pedigree of the LC and how Thiess Bros
>imported them for their contract work on the Snowy Mountains Hydro
>Electric Scheme.  (Thiess were earth-moving contractors who eventually

Toyaota ran an ad a couple of years ago, implying that early Landcruisers
formed the backbone fo the Snowy Mountains Scheme construction fleet.

They were forced to withdraw the ad shortly afterwards due to complaints
from LandRover about historical inaccuracy.  Apparently (correct me if
anyone knows better, but this is what came out of it), there were only
a handful of Tojos used, towards the end of the project, with SI LandRovers 
being the main vehicle.

cheers.  Tony.
****************************************************************************
*****

Tony Yates                              email: a.yates@bom.gov.au
Senior Forecaster                       Ph:    (672) 10632
Davis Meteorological Office             Fax:   (672) 10658
Australian Antarctic Territory

"Ice Bird became like a ghost ship. The freezing fog sheathed her rigging with 
ice; her decks grew ice glazed, and murderously slippery.  Though the
conditions 
had assumed a kind of fantasy nightmare quality, the peril was all too real"
- Captain David Lewis, 1975

*Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast* - Ace Rimmer,  approx 3000000 AD

****************************************************************************
******

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:31:17 +0100
From: Alain-Jean PARES <InfoDyne@hehe.com>
Subject: Movie sighting
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 Saw yesterday night a James Bond (You only live twice).
In the movie in Hong Kong, a beautiful Serie I, then in the volcano, for
1/2 second a firemen Serie II(I think)

Alain-Jean PARES
88 Serie III RHD Diesel (still smoking)
Bourron Marlotte, FRANCE

------------1948354A960
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: sick starters and dead batteries
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:45:57 +0100 (MET)

Hi folks,
When I tried to start my LR on Monday I just heard a fast clackclackclack
noise coming from the starter. The Magnet seemed to pull, but then let go
and pulled again... I was about to rip the starter out but couldn't get one
of the bolts out. So yesterday I borrowed some appropriate tools from work
and talked with our institutes mechanic. He pointed out that it may well
be the battery. When I made the next approach, yesterday evening he turned
out to be perfectly right. The battery was totally dead. You'll never stop
to learn....
The old battery is just 42Ah, a bit small I think. What do others have in 
their diesels? 

Keep the oily side down,
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Breathers, brakes, and gearboxes
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 9:00:36 GMT

Hi all!

The gearbox is now at a maximum-disassembled stage!
So what was wrong with it? Don't have any definite answers, but I've picked
up on some minor things (detent on High/Low,etc) and found a rather gnarled
reverse gear (=>new reverse gear and layshaft), and something odd with the 
bits in the 4wd drive housing:

1.) the two selector shafts which should come out together, came out separate.
2.) I had to hammer one of these shafts out! It was gnarled at the end - I
assumed at the time that the previous rebuilder had reused items s/he shouldn't
have reused - not so sure now.
3.) The 4wd output shaft has a nice roughly-diamond shaped pattern of dints,
behind (ie. in front in vehicular terms) of the dog clutch. Perhaps a
3rd the way long (it isn't infront of me). This is the shaft which had
the castle nut I couldn't undo (on the other end). The attached half
of the dog clutch could do with replacing too.

So, my guess is something came undone, and for a while at least was allowed
to bounce around/vibrate, and catch moving parts. I don't have FWHs, so
both ends of the dog clutch would have been rotating.
The original noise that forced me to do something, would fit with this
scenario.

So, tonight (whilst I wait for pay-day to order the new bits), I'll
be rebuilding the handbrake. What is special about this brake grease which
has been supplied with the brake overhaul kits (expander & adjuster kits)?

I noticed yesterday that Halfords sold "copper grease" with the brake
components - I assume this is just copper slip (or "Copper Ease" as my tin
is labelled). All the same stuff? and why copper slip for brakes?

And my other question involves the front axle breather. The weather's been
bad the past few days in Southern England, so I haven't investigated very
thoroughly, but it looks like the breather goes into the chassis!
Is this meant to be so? Or has the PO overdone it a bit as regards sealant?
(ie. it should just pull off/out)?
I have the obligatory front axle oil leaks, so I'm trying to investigate the
simplest solution...

Cheers,

Richard

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 01:27:02 -0800
From: Joe Schaefer <joes@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: sick starters and dead batteries

At 09:45 26-02-97 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi folks,
>When I tried to start my LR on Monday I just heard a fast clackclackclack
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
>      [____|\_\==
>      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
> ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-

Are you sure it wasn't just a bad ground? Same symptoms but cheaper to fix.
So far as batteries go IMHO get the biggest, meanest, largest CCA rated ,
*heaviest*  battery you can fit in. 

-jj

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: sick starters and dead batteries
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:33:42 +0100 (MET)

| Are you sure it wasn't just a bad ground? Same symptoms but cheaper to fix.
Sure, but yesterday the battery even had not enough juice to light up the 
lamps on the dash more than very dim. When I put on the headlights it went down
completely.

Cheers,
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
		   http://www.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/~franz

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