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From: WJMcD@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 09:17:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

This weekend past, Bill Adams LROD pundant and myself finally got together to
drop the pan on my '69, 109 to see why the 2.6- 6 cyl.  had stopped so
abrubtly on the infamous Washington Beltway. Quick loss of compression, but
the lack of a noticable "BANG" gave of high hopes that it would be something
"simple". WRONG!

After initial the euphoria (having seen only a disconnected rod) I spotted a
six in crack in the block where the crank had forced the rod against it.
 S---t! Okay, so the 2.6 doesn't have a great rep, but it was the only motor
I had. You see, this is my first Land Rover and I have driven it for all of
200 miles. 

I'm looking to sell the 2.6, which saving the crack, is a fine motor with
many new parts and reaplce it with something else. Maybe a 2.5? Okay so
here's the question... With a desire to fill the hole that is now my engine
bay and a limited budget what should I put in? 

Go for it ladies and gentleman! Use your imagination. Remember, I live in the
US so it has to be available here.

Also, I want to thank Bill Adams, without whose help the motor could not have
been removed in less than 4 hours (not bad considering it was a first for us
both). He is a truly fine LR mate with many good ideas (except the one about
removing paint in a tub of lye then pouring it down the sewer). Many thanks
Bill! (The B started as soon as you left!)

Bill McDonald
1969 109- Safari "Beauty"
1993 Eurovan
1984 Cherokee (the last of the big bodies)
1966 MGB- whose fuel pump I replaced whilst Bill removed the wings on the 109
1975 CB400 Super Sport- Cherry Red Pocket Rocket (she's pristine!)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 09:23:31 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Clutch woes

>>>  As the master and slave have been rebuilt, there is but one more source 
for a spongy pedal - one that is oft overlooked: the flex line.

Indeed, but not this time. Twas replaced along with all the cylinders and 
most of the other parts about 5 months ago

>>  On a LHD vehicle, the clutch line crosses the firewall to a flex line 
>>between the bulkhead and the top of the belhousing.  It is a *mutha* to 
>>get to,

One foot on each engine mount, sitting on valve cover...

>>BTW, mine had that little extension pipe for ease of bleeding (Ser III 
>>owners will know what I mean), yet is wasn't connected to anything. Duh! 

I disconnected mine too...just made it more difficult to get the air out.
Everything seems ok now...thanks!

DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 09:31:40 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

With a desire to fill the hole that is now my engine bay and a limited 
budget what should I put in? 

Plenty o' used 2.25's around here, Im sure one could be had cheep...
DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 09:28:20 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping Galvanized Surfaces

 
>> I plan on using this Land Rover for real off-roading and general 
>>driving, but I also want to slowly restore it to as close to original 
>>specs. as possible.

Item 1:

You will be constantly undoing your own work there, mate...

>>I want to remove the paint off of the galvanized pieces that were 
>>painted over. 
>>How would I go about stripping the paint from these?  

Use paint stripper. Dont get to much on the body. Dont use a wire wheel or you 
may remove the galvanising.
 You can tape off some palstic onto the body panels if you are owrried about 
accidentally removing paint from them, (see item 1.)

Cheers
DaveB.

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 10:28:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: looking for lla radiator panel

     I am looking for a good radiator panel for an early  series lla..
Headlamps in the panel
Anybody have one? please e-mail me direct
Rgds
Steve Bradke   72 S lll 88
WA2GMC       68 S lla 88
                      96 Discovery

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:03:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

Re: Blown 2.6:

Undoubtedly a Rover 2.25, for the following reasons:

1. With a bellhousing change and a bit of movement of mountings, it goes
right in.

2. As one who drives one daily, I am of the firm opinion that a
good-condition 2.25 with an overdrive is better than all the bodged
conversions I have ever seen.

3. Secondhand 2.25 can be had cheaper than a Scotty's adapter alone, never
mind the whole conversion.

4. The switch can be done with all Rover parts, retaining originality (and
further resale value).

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:15:27 +0000
From: Ian Harper/Donna-Claire McLeod <tantramar@golden.net>
Subject: S1 Brake Master

I've just taken my master brake cylinder off of my 55 S1.  It's the kind
with the 3 bolt attachment.   It's obviously in need of a rather lengthy
overhaul.  Now,

1. Can I get a seal replacement kit for this at a reasonable price?
2. Will kits from another (more up-to-date) Master fit this one?
3. Should I just chuck it and try to fit a 2 bolt CB (expensive, but I
already have one.....) and just tap another bolt hole.

I have to re-do the entire brake system, so I'm sort of leaning towards
option #3

Thanks, Ian
-- 

Ian Harper/Donna Claire McLeod

http://www.golden.net/~tantramar

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 08:22:28 -0800
From: Benoit Jansen-Reynaud <benoit@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

unsubscribe lro-digest
> Land-Rover-Owner List &  Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List
> The List pages (including subscribe/unsubscribe forms) start at:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 819 lines)]
> From: ScottH3601@aol.com
> Date: Sun,

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:59:50 -0500
From: Mike Gaines <106220.1234@compuserve.com>
Subject: Which Stainless steel exhaust?

Hi,
1] Well said TeriAnn-- anyway its better to be a Bof than a spoilt brat
2] A feature in a recent LRO or LRW stated that a stainless steel exhaust 
from a `reputable manufacturer` rotted away after a year. As my exhaust is
on its way to a rust heap soaking up the oil spills, anybody know which
ones are good buys and which to avoid? 

Mike Gaines SIII Lightweight `Wicked Wanda'

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:07:17 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: SIII and HMMV photos.

FYI,  I have thrown a few photos on a page for your review.  There are only
three for now.  Check back from time to time for the latest.  

URL:  http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm/DropZone.htm  

Or if you forget the URL just click in the first "o" in johnson at the top
or my main page.

Mike Johnson  N7WBO
74 SIII 88 (Chester)  25903561b
73 SIII 88 (Jezebel)  ?????????
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:31:09 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Which Stainless steel exhaust?

At 11:59 AM 2/2/97, Mike Gaines <106220.1234@compuserve.com> wrote:
:2] A feature in a recent LRO or LRW stated that a stainless steel exhaust 
:from a `reputable manufacturer` rotted away after a year. As my exhaust is
:on its way to a rust heap soaking up the oil spills, anybody know which
:ones are good buys and which to avoid? 

 What part of the world are you writing from?  If from Europe there are
 plenty of manufacturers in LRO and LRW which will stand behind their
 product.  Here in North America you might try Land Rover Classics,
 Stainless Steel Muffler Corp. 905-792-7770, Fax 905-792-3673.  They are
 located in Canada and have an extensive set of 100% Stainless Steel pipes
 and mufflers for most Land Rovers.  They been advertising in the AW
 newsmagazine for years.
                       ______
 Michael Carradine     [__[__\==                  72-88, 89-RR Land Rovers
 Architect             [________]               www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
 510-988-0900 _______.._(o)__.(o)__..o^^ POBox 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 12:40:38 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

Re: Blown 2.6:

1. With a bellhousing change and a bit of movement of mountings, it goes 
right in.

bellhousing change?? Hmm. Didn't realize that part...
Gearbox has to move forward, or radiator has to have custom mount.

2. As one who drives one daily, I am of the firm opinion that a 
good-condition 2.25 with an overdrive is better than all the bodged 
conversions I have ever seen.

Agreed, but a 2.5 diesel would be nice...haven't seen any other conversion 
that I would do except maybe the Perkins diesel, but I'd rather have the 
2.5

3. Secondhand 2.25 can be had cheaper than a Scotty's adapter alone, never 
mind the whole conversion.

yup.

4. The switch can be done with all Rover parts, retaining originality (and 
further resale value).

yup again...

OTOH, I DO know where a 2.6 block is to be had...
condition unkown...head is already off though.

DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:44:07 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: S1 Brake Master

At 11:15 AM 2/2/97 +0000, Ian Harper/Donna-Claire McLeod wrote:
:I've just taken my master brake cylinder off of my 55 S1.  It's the kind
:with the 3 bolt attachment.   It's obviously in need of a overhaul,
:1. Can I get a seal replacement kit for this at a reasonable price?
:2. Will kits from another (more up-to-date) Master fit this one?
:3. Should I just chuck it and try to fit a 2 bolt CB (expensive, but I
:already have one.....) and just tap another bolt hole.

 Maybe #4, have the master cylinder resleeved with a stainless steel
 core to original dimensional specifications.  Looks and works the same as
 original, lasts a lonmg time.  Also switch to silicone brake fluid.
                       ______
 Michael Carradine     [__[__\==                  72-88, 89-RR Land Rovers
 Architect             [________]               www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html
 510-988-0900 _______.._(o)__.(o)__..o^^ POBox 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 12:44:13 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: Which Stainless steel exhaust?

>>> A feature in a recent LRO or LRW stated that a stainless steel 
>>>exhaust 
>>>from a `reputable manufacturer` rotted away after a year. ...snip... 
>>>which ones are good buys and which to avoid? 

Stainless systems over here come with a lifetime waranty. I guess that 
means the warranty runs out when the life of the exhaust is over...tricky, 
eh?

If you bash your exhaust off-road then that will void the warranty too. Get 
a decent cheap regular exhaust, and you'll be fine.
Stainless exhaust are for road cars IMO

later
DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:04:16 -0700 (MST)
From: calrover@primenet.com (Victor R. Stull)
Subject: Galvanized stips & rust

On the '77 Ser.III I have the galvanized strips under the gutter drains have
become, finally, prone to gradual rusting.  It appears only surface at this
time but . . ..
Can anything be done to cure it (no laughing, please) or at least reduce the
rate of decay?  TIA.
Vic.

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:35:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

Why has no one suggested another F head? I *like* the 2.6 and the three litre
lumps. With some of the chemicals and technology we have today, that they
didn't have when that mill was new, a lot of the shortcomings can be dealt
with and overcome. Besides, his bulkhead is made for one and to me a 2.25
would look sillier in there than a chev 250. 
Besides, I know where there is an old Rover P5 coupe which has but one
redeeming feature; it runs! Well, two redeeming features, it's available
cheap ($350) and it's not too far from metro DC.
*Zero* fabricating, plenty of spares!
Email me for more info. Or call (770)926-8314
Cheers!!
John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
KF4NAS     LROA #1095
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD "Pansy"
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!! 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 14:03:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping Galvanized Surfaces

I just went through the re-galvanization bit a few months back.  My tip
would be to leave it alone until you are ready to do your re-painting
project. You'll sve yourself some time and agrivation  by doing it all at
the smae time.  The masking that you will avoid makes this the way to
go...trust me. The galv. pieces all come off very easily....with a drill.
I had every bit of galv. on my 88 even the windscreen done when I did my
re-build.  It took me about 3-4 hrs to drill out all of the rivits and
remove the glass from the wind screen but it is really worth it in the
end.  The place I had my stuff dipped charged me $50.00 for the whole
bunch and an extra $25.00 for the extra acid dip it all had to go through
because it was already Galv. before.   What this means is don't go through
all the work of getting all of your paint off because it's going to have
to be acid dipped anyway...( yes, I found this out after I spent a few
hours with a wire wheel).
It really is simple  but if you have any questions drop me a note.

Russ Wilson
67 RHD 88
"The Pig"

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh Pa's oldest Land Rover Club....(only Rover club)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 14:13:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

I will first say that I'm sorry to hear of your engine woes...it does suck
and I also must say that I've been through a sim. disaster.  I went for
the rebuild everything route on my 2.25...cost about $2000.00 with parts
and machine shop costs plus the loss of the use of the thing for a long
time....my advice would be to bite the bullet and by a Turner 2.25
the reason for the switch would be that the parts for the 2.25 are the
most available and the Turner engine that I've seen runs like a
banshee...I wish I'd seen it before I rebuilt my beast.

 Russ Wilson
67 RHD 88
"The Pig"

Fort Pitt Land Rover Group
Pittsburgh Pa's oldest Land Rover Club....(only Rover club)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:04:48 -0800
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping Galvanized Surfaces

Keith W. Cooper wrote:
> I am the third and most recent owner of a 1965 SIIA 88".  It was totally
> repainted about 8-10 years ago by the first owner (a farmer in Texas).
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 39 lines)]
> *    Visit my page at - http://www.aristotle.net/~kwcooper/LRV.html     *
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
If yopu are going to strip the paint from the galvanised trim, you must
do it in such a way that you only strip paint - and not galvanising - in
other words a grinder or heavy wire brush is out, as this will often
strip the galvanising, resulting in rust afterwards.

a soft (brass) wire brush cup on an angle grinder is about as heavy a
power tool you can use - don't sand blast either.

You could consider a paint stripper or caustic soda mix. Or even a blow
torch and scraper.

If you can remove the rails first - do so, it will make the job much
easier. Round headed rivets can be bought - there was someone on here
only last week with an address for a supplier in the US - otherwise a
friendly aircraft mechanic could help.

good luck
-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Christian Kuhtz <ckuhtz@paranet.com>
Date: Sun,  2 Feb 97 13:14:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping Galvanized Surfaces

The best way to strip paint of galvanized surfaces properly, is by chemically  
stripping it with a matching paint stripper.  Depending on what paint is  
used, organic paint strippers based on concentrated citrus acid may also work.

Caution: even though organic paint strippers are based on organic material,  
that does not mean that they aren't hazardous to your health.  Whenever you  
strip paint, make sure you protect yourself and the environment first.  And  
always take used as well as unused paint stripper to a place where it can be  
disposed in such a way that doesn't harm the environment.  Even organic paint  
stripper will kill sewage plants due to the extremely high contentration of  
citric acid.  Not to mention that the even just the smell can make you faint,  
regardless of how much you like citrus 'scent'. ;-)

Blow torch and scraper will heat the material to a degree that may lead to  
premature material fatigue, aside from the significant fire hazard.

Today, aircraft painted in paint hangars are either chemically stripped or  
water stripped (very high pressure water beam rotating over the surface).

--
Christian Kuhtz <ckuhtz@paranet.com>
                                                          ".com is a mistake."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:21:27 -0800
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: SIII Gearbox, clutch, transmission brake

Just removed my gearbox - it came out really easy - even without a jivb
to lift it, just a rope wound round it three times and a yard of 2 x 3
through the eyes at the ends of the rope and - voila ! out it came.

Two questions for LR transmission afficionados out there -

1. Clutch - my clutch plate (2 yrs old) seems solid and unworn - well
clear of the rivets yet. fibre plates are 8 to 8.5mm thick - faceplates
are clean and dry, no markings or scorings - should I change the clutch
or fibre plate while its out or should I let it go in again?

2. How can you tell which side of the clutch is towards motor, and which
side towards gearbox - a friend helping me "thinks it was this way
round" but just to be sure...

3. Is it difficult to remount clutch cylinder on box (later version, two
bolts, rubber gasket with quarter-inch shaft from gearbox lining up with
cylinder - any tips for an easy remount here?

4. Any cool tips for removing transmission brake drum from rear of
gearbox? I have removed transmission U-link (4 nuts) and the 4 nuts
which appear to hold the drum on, but no amount of pulling and hammering
helps. It is not rusted solid - at least only 2 years ago we changed the
brake shoes. Any tricks for simple removal of drum?

5. I have heard many warnings about the clutch/bell housing being full
of oil. Mine is mostly dry, but there is some oil deposits on the inside
of the casing (but NOT anywhere near the clutch plates) - should this be
cleaned out before reassembly - should I remove the clutch faceplate
from the flywheel to do this?

Otherwise it's been a relativly simple weekend - my first gearbox-outing
but definately not my last - soon the 88" must be done too!

Any advice on above questions is truly welcome - I'll check my mail
later this evening.

-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:35:04 -0800
From: Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com (Hank Lapa)
Subject: Re: Paint Removal from galvanized Bits

     Find someone with a sandblaster (small, light-duty, Sears type).  Get 
     a sack or three of mild abrasive such as plastic blast media, crushed 
     walnet shell, or (not kidding) ground-up corncob. ("Abrasives" in the 
     Yellow Pages.)  Carefully mask around the bits you want to strip using 
     tape and covering that won't get blasted through (maybe wide vinyl 
     tape?) and start blasting.  Use low pressure at first, and then 
     increase intil you're comfortable with the feel of it.  Blast only 
     enough to remove paint; don't hold the stream on bare galvanize or 
     you'll eventually punch through to steel.  Don't use sand or steel 
     grit.  Don't use glass bead unless you've got the hands of a neural 
     surgeon.  Don't use chemical stripper unless you remove the bits from 
     the vehicle, that is no dissimilar metals in contact and no crevases 
     to trap chemical.  Do not use live steam to clean chemicals from 
     crevasses if you've ignored the above.
     
     Once stripped, a coat of wax wouldn't hurt at all.  Just don't tell 
     anyone you actually put wax on a Series car!!
     
     Good luck,
     Hank

------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8rnulf_Sch=F8mer?= <ornulfsc@login.eunet.no>
Subject: Identified problem with LR Series III, 4cyl petrol
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:46:16 +0100

Thank you for the tips about my cooked condensator. This was not the =
fault, but the tip got me going in the right direction. I tried moving =
my ignition coil to my other car (Range Rover), where it worked =
flawlessly. Having done that, I put it back into my LR, fitted a new =
condensator and tried to start it again. Nothing worked. However, I then =
wondered wether the fault was my distributor, so I removed and checked =
it out. Nothing there.

The fault: The timing chain has broken!

Haven't the time to check it out yet (It is freezing here in Norway, and =
I don't have a heated garage), but now I wonder: is it likely that any =
damage has occurred to either the cylinder head, the pistons or the =
valves??? I sure don't hope so.

Greetings and thanks from

Ornulf Schomer
Ornulf.schomer@nrk.no
s

------------------------------

From: Christian Kuhtz <ckuhtz@paranet.com>
Date: Sun,  2 Feb 97 13:45:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Paint Removal from galvanized Bits

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:35:04 -0800, Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com (Hank Lapa) wrote:
> Don't use glass bead unless you've got the hands of a neural
> surgeon.

*laugh*.. I can only second that one.  When my dad restored his vintage MB  
convertible, one attempt with glass beads was made, and, boy, was he pissed  
off when he had that thinned out piece in the door pannel. *grin*

> Don't use chemical stripper unless you remove the bits from
> the vehicle, that is no dissimilar metals in contact and no crevases
> to trap chemical.

That's very much true for traditional paint strippers.  For today's  
"high-tech" strippers, that's no longer accurate.

> Once stripped, a coat of wax wouldn't hurt at all.  Just don't tell
> anyone you actually put wax on a Series car!!

C|N >K

Almost signature worthy ;-)

--
Christian Kuhtz <ckuhtz@paranet.com>
                                                          ".com is a mistake."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 15:48:56 -0800
From: Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com (Hank Lapa)
Subject: Another used 5-speed Disco

     All,
     
     At behest of my better half and with only feigned resistance from me, 
     have traded in the '95 Disco 5-speed on a Def SW.
     
     If any of you "stick" afficianados anywhere near DC covet a Coniston 
     Green 5-speed 1995 Disco, with genuine brush bar, rear ladder, and 
     rear jump seats, answer me back personally and I will tell you who has 
     it.  I truly think it has the most carefully broken-in LR engine in 
     the USA (about 7-8 oil changes before 1st reccommended change), and 
     should thus have lonnnngg life.  If you actually buy it, I'll be happy 
     to turn over the original window sticker and other original owner-type 
     documents.  Garage-kept and very clean, a good deal for anyone not 
     wanting to shell out for a new Disco, but no longer mine.
     
     Also have retained a number of Genuine accessories, but am waiting to 
     give members of my local club first refusal, including seat covers, 
     rubber mats, spare tire cover, and shop manual.  
     
     I may take a few days to respond as I start jury duty tomorrow (Mon) 
     AM.  
     
     Hoping to help out a potential fellow enthusiast,
     Hank
     (Speakin' noncommercially only for myself)

------------------------------

From: RINGOJACK@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:35:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Another used 5-speed Disco

If no one wants the rear tire cover I am interested in buying it.  Got
anything else for a Disco that wan't mentioned?

Mark

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:38:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The Ties (and Crankshafts) That Bind

Re: Move the gearbox or move the radiator?

Neither, fair prince - use longer radiator hoses and an electric fan, or
move the gearbox mounts and make it a 2.25.

I've seen both done and the latter makes sense because 2.25 shafts are much
cheaper than ones for a 2.6.

Other than that, Dave B. and I agree...is this the apocalypse?

               aj"It's the end of the world as we know it...8*)  "r

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 97 16:36:59 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: SIII Gearbox, clutch, transmission brake

>> Clutch - my clutch plate (2 yrs old) seems solid and unworn - well 
clear of the rivets yet. fibre plates are 8 to 8.5mm thick - faceplates 
are clean and dry, no markings or scorings - should I change the clutch 
or fibre plate while its out or should I let it go in again?

I'll leave this one to the experts. Maybe just do the driven plate

>>> How can you tell which side of the clutch is towards motor, and 
which side towards gearbox - a friend helping me "thinks it was this way 
round" but just to be sure...

Should say "Flywheel" on one side, in the center hub.

>>> Is it difficult to remount clutch cylinder on box (later version, two 
bolts, rubber gasket with quarter-inch shaft from gearbox lining up with 
cylinder - any tips for an easy remount here?

Should just bolt right up...

>>> Any cool tips for removing transmission brake drum from rear of 
gearbox? I have removed transmission U-link (4 nuts) and the 4 nuts which 
appear to hold the drum on, but no amount of pulling and hammering helps. 
It is not rusted solid - at least only 2 years ago we changed the brake 
shoes. Any tricks for simple removal of drum?

Try adjusting the shoes all the way down first

>>> I have heard many warnings about the clutch/bell housing being full 
of oil. Mine is mostly dry, but there is some oil deposits on the inside 
of the casing (but NOT anywhere near the clutch plates) - should this be 
cleaned out before reassembly - should I remove the clutch faceplate 
from the flywheel to do this?

I assume you mean the flywheel housing. You oughttta pull the flywheel out 
and clean it. Maybe even change the rear main seal on the motor. That 
involves pulling the sump which is a disgusting job to say the least.

>>>Otherwise it's been a relativly simple weekend - my first 
gearbox-outing but definately not my last - soon the 88" must be done 
too!

Glad one of us is having fun

later
DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:51:31 -0800
From: Michael McKeag <mmckeag@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Old farts

The subject line on this thread caught my attention. Awhile back, when
my younger son was setting up the e-mail client on his new (my old) PC
and called me by telephone to ask how and where to save my messages to
him I flippantly suggested he create a folder called "Old_Fart". I heard
keys clicking in the background. I should know better.

My D90 is a 1995 model. I'm a 1946 model. Our age ratio is almost 50:1
My truck is still under warranty. I'm not. But I'm still in pretty good
working order despite high miles.

I found TeriAnn's response to Tony's original post delightful,
informative and also thought provoking. She suggested yet another way to
understand what separates the conservative from the progressive among
us:

"An instinctive human survival trait is that we tend to feel more
comfortable with familure things around us and more alert and less
comfortable/complacent with new and different things around us."

Starting with the heightened awareness aroused by the "new and
different," what happens next? Are some of us more inclined toward
curiosity and others fear? Are some of us more inclined toward optimism,
expecting new and interesting things to happen, while others are more
likely to respond with pessimism, reluctant to relinquish established
solutions, keenly aware of the frequency with which the best laid plans
go completely haywire? Are we born with a tendency one way or the other?
Or is the bias a product of early childhood experience? Beats me. But I
do know that at 50 I'm as biased toward an optimistic/progressive
response to changed circumstances as I was at 20. If the years have had
any effect, its not to change that bias, but to give me a better
appreciation for the consevative pessimists around me. I've plunged
bright-eyed and bushy-tailed into my share of disasters. I no longer
blow off the pessimists as nay-saying spoil-sports. I listen to their
concerns carefully. Then I plunge ahead, doing aa I damned well please.

TeriAnn on young males:

"So as a young male, you have instictive needs for adventure, risks, and
to get the old farts out of your face.  If you survive to reach a mature
state you will probably be carefully restoring something like a Miata or
BMW M3..."

As the father of two sons, and with all three of us now the surviving
veterans of their adolescence, I'm glad I gave them lots of elbow room
at the time. There were only a few boundaries I insisted on, cross those
and there was hell to pay. Inside those wide limits, they were on their
own. I covered my eyes, crossed my fingers and hoped they survived to
adulthood I also hoped we would still be on speaking terms when they got
there. They survived and we still speak. In fact, we speak at great
length, racking up considerable phone bills between Seattle, Portland
and Oakland each month. We generate a lot of e-mail traffic too. I count
my sons among my closest male friends. I count many other men in their
20's among my friends and work mates too. I'd have it no other way. I
never want to live in a segregated world reserved for Old Farts only.

TeriAnn on the parents of us fifty-something Old Farts:

"We grew up with people in their fifties acting like their active life
were over.  Sitting around, watching the world go by, reminessing about
the old days and generally waiting to die.  Well it looks like my
generation is saying screw that..."

That describes my father to great extent. But last Fall I got him out on
a Rover ride along a rutted, rocky, muddy, overgrown trail in the
Cascade Mountains and he loved it! That afternoon run was preamble to
the next. I've talked him into joining me on part of my sabbatical
sojourn to Alaska and the Yukon this summer. Don't give up too soon on
the Old Farts in your life. Sometimes even the most deeply mired can be
jacked and winched and put on the road again.

Thanks TeriAnn for resending Tony's original post. I was wondering what
you were responding to. You get points for exercising the patience to
figure out what Tony was trying to say. The Internet plays a cruel joke
on those who grew up spending much more time watching television and
playing video games than reading books. E-mail, like TV happens in front
of a cathode ray tube, and, like video games, one employs a keyboard and
pointing device. But ultimately, to communicate via e-mail, you have to
know how to write. To learn to write, you have to do a lot of reading.
We are letting people slip through our schools without learning how to
write. And then we confront them with e-mail.

Tony is not alone. In fact, he's in pretty prestigious company. I work
with a lot of bright young PhD's gleaned from the best universities in
the world, and most of them never learned to write either. Oh well. Give
it a few more years, a little more bandwidth, better audio and video
compression, and e-mail will be obsolete. We can all go back to watching
television.

Rover on Dudes!

Old_Fart
-- 
Michael McKeag          Webmaster - Native Plant Society of Oregon
Portland, OR USA        http://www.teleport.com/nonprofit/npso/  
mmckeag@teleport.com    LRO - 1995 D90SW #143, alpine white

"His career was that he was himself and he got away with it."
                 - Journalist describing humorist Brother Theodore

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:21:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Rao <ncavwc@nicom.com>
Subject: Exploding Distributor 

While travelling on Rt 66 east bound into Wash. D.C yesterday, "The Beast"
experienced terminal distributor failure.  
I've got a '63 109 station wagon.  On after coasting to a stop and checking
the engine compartment, I found the distributor with the cap off and rotor
missing.  On closer inspection, I noticed a bulge in the plate which the
points ride on and one of the screw heads missing.  I also found the
distributor was raised out of position by about one inch.  
 To make a long story not quite so long, I found that something cut loose in
the distributor down where the centr. adv. weights are.  Both weights were
loose in the bottom of the dist, one was broken at the hole for the pivot,
both pivot posts were snapped off, the main shaft is bent.  The only thing
without significant damage was the housing a couple of screws, and maybe the
condenser.

I will be ordering a new distributor this week.  Should I just order the
standard Lucas is there something else that would be better for a comparable
or at least reasonable price. 

On the recent thread regarding Hi-Lift/Jackall jacks.

I recently purchase the Hi-Lift jack, but I noticed that it was made out of
a number of cast parts as opposed to stamped steel prts.  I was concerned
that I was not getting what I thought especially since the price was lower
than most places I had seen.  I called the Hi-lift company and was told that
both the cast and stamped steel jacks had the same load capacity however the
jack with the cast parts was much more durable than the other and usually
sells for a higher price than the other.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Let me know about the distributor

Dan Rao
emailto:ncavwc@nicom.com

------------------------------

From: PeterG4444@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:30:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: US? NG? KAPUT?

Thank you, Adrian, for your eloquent explanation.  You're obviously a class
act.

Pete

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:35:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Exploding Distributor 

In a message dated 2/2/97 6:12:26 PM, you wrote:

<<To make a long story not quite so long, I found that something cut loose in
the distributor down where the centr. adv. weights are.  Both weights were
loose in the bottom of the dist, one was broken at the hole for the pivot,
both pivot posts were snapped off, the main shaft is bent.  The only thing
without significant damage was the housing a couple of screws, and maybe the
condenser.

I will be ordering a new distributor this week.  Should I just order the
standard Lucas is there something else that would be better for a comparable
or at least reasonable price.>>

This happened to me years ago.  Go ahead & re-order the Lucas dist BUT
REPLACE THE DIST DRIVE CONNECTOR AS WELL.  The connector is your problem, not
the dist.    The connector is a thick, quarter-size piece that the connects
the bottom of the dist to the cam drive shaft.  Wear on this part sets up
vibes that tear the dist apart.  You'll see wear in the slots on the
connector.  It  may not look like much, but it will tear your dist apart.
 Trust me on this.  I spent 6 days picking eggs on a chicken farm in 1975
after the counter weights broke loose and carved my dist in half.  Lulubelles
been running on th replacement dist ever since (Lucas).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:52:08 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping Galvanized Surfaces

>How would I go about stripping the paint from these?  Would I need to
>disconnect the pieces from the body and then re-attach when stripped?  If
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>http://www.aristotle.net/~kwcooper/LRPics.html
>Thanks,
>Keith

Keith,
        About the round headed rivets, most people just replace them with
the standard pop rivets, this is what the defenders use.  If you want to be
truly to spec, you will have to ask the experts as I have not tried to
replace the original type.
        The Galvanizing tends to be thin in some places and I would
hesitate using anything more abrasive than strip eze to get rid of the old
paint.  I used some steel wool on one of my series, and took off most of
the galvanizing.  Its easy to do because you can't tell for sure where the
galv. stopps and the clean, bare metal starts.

Steve

Steve Paustian
Flatland Rover Society
D90 SW

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:24:53 -0200
From: sukkertoppen@ax.apc.org (Jacob G. Glahn)
Subject: unsubscribe

I would like to unsubscribe LRO@playground.sun.com.
sukkertoppen@ax.apc.org.br

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:28:43 -0800
From: "C. Marin Faure" <faurecm@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Single declutching

>The question is, which is
>likel;y to go first, the synchro or teh clutch release lever? Since
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>eventually fixing them - so what matteris is to be kind to the
>weakest link....

For what it's worth, I have over 150,000 miles on my Series III.  I've only
had the gearbox off once to replace the gaskets and seals which had worn
out.  The clutch looked like it had barely been run in, and the clutch
release lever and throwout bearing were in near-perfect condition.  I admit
I've always shifted quite conservatively, trying hard on upshifts not to
add gas until the clutch is fully engaged so as to minimize clutch
slippage.  I don't double-clutch my shifts up or down, and I very rarely
use a downshift to slow down, prefering to use the brakes, as shoes are a
whole lot easier to replace than clutches.  I also always pull the shift
lever into neutral and release the clutch pedal at stops, even brief ones,
rather than sit with the clutch pedal depressed which keeps a load on the
throwout bearing, clutch lever, and hydraulic seals in the master and slave
cylinders.

The only clutch components I've ever had to replace in 24 years of
ownership (I bought my Series III new in 1973) have been the master and
slave cylinders when the piston seals finally give out and start leaking.
Something I learned the hard way from aircraft maintenance is if one
component in a hydraulic system goes bad, replace ALL of them.  Otherwise,
you're asking for trouble.

I don't know if the Defender 90 clutch mechanism is at all similar to the
Series III mechanism, but if it is, the clutch and transmission should be
the least of a Land Rover owner's worries, assuming the vehicle is not
abused.

_________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

------------------------------

From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: RE: Elephant Hide
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 14:39:00 EST

David Schwarz wrote:
>I've also been told that one of the reasons the company changed it's name
>was that the initials were often used in Great Britain to label that which
>was UnSatisfactory, as we sometimes label something N.G., meaning, No Good.
> I've always wanted to ask someone if that were true?  Is it?

In Australia, in my trade of electronics, we use the U/S to indicate 
unserviceable
If we want to say something is no good we say NBG (no bloody good) -true.

Regards

Ron Beckett

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:00:06 +0200
From: Iwan Vosloo <ivosloo@cs.up.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Old farts

Funny how young farts seems to be worse than old ones. ;-)

- Iwan Vosloo ( '70 mad male )
( '75 SIII 88" Diesel )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:52:07 +0000
From: "D.M.Phillips" <D.M.Phillips@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: Many Thanks!!

You may remember about a week ago I asked for persuasive arguments for
owning a Land Rover, well thanks to all who replied I WAS SUCCESSFUL!!.

We went to pick up our landy(1980 SIII 88") on saturday!!. Needless to
say it's like 10 xmases and birthdays rolled into one - well chuffed!!. 

So to all who gave their assistance - bravo!! - and thank you kindly!!

I just have one technical query though, it'll follow shortly......

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:59:51 +0000
From: "D.M.Phillips" <D.M.Phillips@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: Wing-Mirror Adjustment

Further to my previous message:

How the hell do I adjust the wing-mirrors?? (1980 SIII).

I know its kind of a naff problem, I've loosened the nut on the back of
the mirror and adjusted it that way, but now I want to pull the arm that
the mirror's attached to, in a bit (at the moment you get a lovely view
of the shops but not the cars behind!!). I had a look at the bottom of
the arm to find that there's a cover-thing, so I twisted, turned, yanked
and heaved till it came off, expecting to find another nut that I could
loosen, but instead finding a weird toothed arrangement with no
immediate means of adjustment (most uncharacteristically complex!!).

Many thanks in advance (please don't snigger, I'm just a lowly landy
virgin and have to learn sometime).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:36:43 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: US? NG? KAPUT?

>No insult intended Pete, but US was in common usage in my childhood
>(50's and 60's) for useless.
The Americans invented the term themselves.Stands for UnServiceable.
We use NBG,for No Bloody Good,or just plain duff,knackered.....
And I beleive the phrase was Overpaid,Oversexed,and Over here.....
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Firewall feet rust damage, gearbox-outing
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 9:51:12 GMT

> Series III - 109" (1976) Diesel - Gearbox-outing - UPDATE!

> If any gearbox-outing experienced lro's read this - pelease check my MO
> for tomorrow - (to remove gearbox)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
> 8.	Gently lift gearbox out of vehicle :-) (I am alone on this one)
> (Gearbox is to be sent out of house for workshop rebuild)
> then - whilst waiting for shiny reconditioned gearbox to appear...

I'm going for the brave option...

I had to remove the front section of exhaust. It goes over the left
gearbox mount. Apparently this varies, but mine was 1973 petrol.
Also had to take the whole of the rear propshaft off (not a problem), because
of the chassis arrangement.
 
Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:54:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Mark Perry <rxq281@freenet.mb.ca>
Subject: kiwi flick sighting, nomads

Just watched a 1981 New Zealand "buddy" movie called Goodbye Pork Pie, in
which a couple of ne'er do-wells raise hell across N.Z. in a stolen Austin
Mini, gradually stripped and immolated by film's end. LR content is in
title shot in which a LR pickup is seen parked on street. It has truck
cab, but for a PU box it has a more military-style wide box or "pan" on
the back, a sort of low commercial-type stakeside or maybe dropside such
as was on T****a and S****i pickups.  It looks a lot more useful than the
standard PU or HiCap box. Was this a strictly Kiwi option, CKD mod,
factory option, or is this strictly an aftermarket mod or one-off sort of
thing? Very useful looking. 
Also came across a shot in an aviation book of RAF Sikorsky S-51 slinging a 
109 into the air, circa 1960s, to demonstrate that RAF had finally got 
helos that *could* sling a Land Rover.

As for Nomads, the description of the GM Trax sounds like the likely 
suspect. I remember those Chevy Nomad Wagons - wasn't the P5-based Road 
Rover styled a lot like one of those?
As for the Aussie GAF Nomad - apparently a pale imitation of the 
formidable DeHavilland Canada Twin Otter. 

Mark Perry   Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop: Daily driver (except currently undergoing 
gearbox rebuild: $$!)
 "It's noisier on the inside"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:09:23 +0000
From: "D.M.Phillips" <D.M.Phillips@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: Wing Mirror Adjustment

Further to my previous message:

How the hell do I adjust the wing-mirrors?? (1980 SIII).

I know its kind of a naff problem, I've loosened the nut on the back of
the mirror and adjusted it that way, but now I want to pull the arm that
the mirror's attached to, in a bit (at the moment you get a lovely view
of the shops but not the cars behind!!). I had a look at the bottom of
the arm to find that there's a cover-thing, so I twisted, turned, yanked
and heaved till it came off, expecting to find another nut that I could
loosen, but instead finding a weird toothed arrangement with no
immediate means of adjustment (most uncharacteristically complex!!).

Many thanks in advance (please don't snigger, I'm just a lowly landy
virgin and have to learn sometime).
-- 
--------------------------------------------
Duncan Phillips
Senior Technician/Network Supervisor
School of Computing (Stoke site)
Staffordshire University
UK

http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~cmtdmp
--------------------------------------------
"It can't rain all the time............"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:16:03 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Old farts

>Old decrepit cars and owners (no gender bias here)
>You are all OLD FARTS this means that the average age on this list is
>around 900 ?what age I wonder?
Well,at least old farts have developed some manners......
Perhaps when you have,you might be fit company on this list.

>all of you bar a couple of kids out here,(like me ) are older than
>the cars you drive. I'm afraid most if not all are in your
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>(these must be worring thoughts for the 16 yo kid who
>signed up recently to see what he may be like in 30 years time ).:-)
When you are old enough to have some experience on which to
draw,you may be worth listening to.Until then,we old farts
are quite happy to share ours with you so that you dont make
the same mistakes we did.On the other hand,it may be better
if you did.Remember that those who ignore history are condemned
to suffer from it....
Grow up,sunshine.Mentally.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:56:48 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Wing Mirror Adjustment

>How the hell do I adjust the wing-mirrors?? (1980 SIII).
Do you mean wing mirrors or door mirrors?
If its a wing mirror,loosen the mounting bolt in the wing
and rotate the arm.
OTOH if its a door mirror,and has a mechanism like mine,
the wierd toothed arrangement is the adjustment.The body
contains a spring,which keeps the teeth in mesh.Just pull
the arm until the teeth slide over each other a notch.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "Thees Brons" <378219@sepa.tudelft.nl>
Date:          Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:02:57 MET
Subject:       Brake problems

Hi everybody,

A few months ago I bought a 1980 109" V8. It was in a pretty good 
condition (espcially the engine), but the brakes didn't work. The 
wheel cylinders had been leaking.

Since the vehicle will be used for an overland trip through Africa, we 
decided to replace the wheel cylinders, the brakes shoes, the brake 
lines and overhaul the master cylinder. After extensive bleeding the 
resuts is that the front brakes work extremely well, but the rear 
brakes hardly do their job. Even when braking on gravel the rear 
wheels won't block; they just keep turning!

The rear brake shoes are adjusted in the right way.

The brake pedal does still feel a bit spongy, but bleeding doesn't 
reveal any air!?

What could be wrong? Is there still air in the lines? Could it be the 
brake servo? Or is the pressure drop through the rear brake lines too 
large (because of unnoticed dents or too many bends)?

Another question: should the brakes lines to the rear have the same 
(inner) diameter as the ones to the front brakes? I can imagine that 
a larger inner diameter of the rear brake lines would result in a 
lower pressure drop and thus resulting in a larger braking force.

Another thing that worries us is the fact that in the brake reservoir 
we notice large air bubbles coming up through the brake fluid quite 
violently when the brake pedal is being released. Is this normal ?!

Any help will be very much appreciated,

Erik
(1980 109" V8)
Delft, The Netherlands

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Old farts
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 11:01:00 PST

>all of you bar a couple of kids out here,(like me ) are older than
>the cars you drive.

This is probably one of the few lists where the people could be younger that 
the car they drive. Seems this young whipper snapper should go buy himself a 
Vitara or some other such young pretender and leave us who are older and 
wiser to enjoy our Land Rovers. Very good reply to him TeriAnn.

Scott Davies, only 18 years older than my Landie!

------------------------------

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