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------------------------------

From: Andy Woodward <azw@aber.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:25:05 +0000
Subject: towing

>I Would like to tow a 97 D90 behind a camper. Does anyone know how
>this is accomplished without burning out the seals in the tranny.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>drive flanges and save the drag from the differentials ( cheap free
>wheel hubs ) or take off the drive shafts.

I assume the vehicle is to be towed with the front wheels off the 
deck? The manual emphasises that the central diff will be toast 
unless the driveshaft to the rear axle is removed.

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:32:50 -500
Subject: LR Prices

Allow me to drag you all back to LR relevance.

I have always preferred the IIA 109 looks most of all.  But I have 
been told that the III makes more sense for an everyday driver.
Is this only from the comfort point of view, for if so, I will chase 
the IIA?  I know of the instrument panel style/location change 
and of the different steering wheel.  And, of course, the front 
panels are quite different.  Is there a change in the transmisions,
axles, and suspensions for the better?  Lately, I have read of a 2.5
litre 5 bearing petrol engine.  I thought it was a 2.25 litre 3 bearing 
engine!  BTW, is the series III a leaf sprung design?  

Now that I have your attention, a couple more bits.  Back to the '65 
109/88 IIA bastard with SOB diesel.  I have read of Turner rebuilt
engines.  Can anyone share their experience of buying and driving 
such a unit?  Would the costs of replacing the engine, welding on a 
new rear cross member, banging out the cabtop dents and general 
tidying up be such that <$2kUS initial cost would be too much?
I see a number of series IIA/III vehicles priced at over $10kUS.
Would a vehicle at this price be considered "exceptional, as new"? 
Sorry for these basic questions, but it is a LR desert out this way.
Mark     

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: LR Prices
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:49:26 +0100 (MET)

Marc,
| I have always preferred the IIA 109 looks most of all.  But I have 
| been told that the III makes more sense for an everyday driver.

|  And, of course, the front panels are quite different. 
You can easily change them if you like. You just need the SII panel and grill.

| Is there a change in the transmisions,
SIII has a full synchro gearbox and the 109 got the Salisbury rear diff.

| Lately, I have read of a 2.5 litre 5 bearing petrol engine. 
The 2.5l engine (petrol & diesel) was fitted to early (read: preDefender) 
90s and 110s. But it should fit into a SIII with minor modifications. 
I have seen several.
BTW. Late SIII (anyone know when?) had a 2.25l 5 main bearing engine.

I hope this is all correct. If not please speak up.

Cheers,
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: LR Prices
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 13:01:22 GMT

> Allow me to drag you all back to LR relevance.

No! Please, please don't!

 
> I have always preferred the IIA 109 looks most of all.  But I have 
> been told that the III makes more sense for an everyday driver.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> litre 5 bearing petrol engine.  I thought it was a 2.25 litre 3 bearing 
> engine!  BTW, is the series III a leaf sprung design?  

I'm more of an III fan, but the II & III definitely have the better looks.
The I has a ancient sort of look in a cute Tonka sort of way (if that's
possible!).
I chose an SIII rather than a SII/A because of the driveability aspect.
All the things are fairly minor, but I've got synchromesh on all the high
gears, and the instruments are infront of me. I hear the
headlights-on-the-wings was for the EEC. Probably slightly better than the
SI/II arrangement I guess.
As I understand it, most other SII/III differences are just gradual evolving
sort of things. During the reign of these two beasts many of the parts were
being continually improved - hence the 100s of different part variations.

Engines: I have a 2.25 3 bearing. I think the 5 bearing came in later
(early '80s?). I assume swapping between the 3 bearing and 5 bearing is
not a problem - as I might do this when I replace my current (tired, but
nothing seriously wrong with it) engine).
The 2.5 petrol engine was 6 cylinder, and the idea originated with
the Duke of Edinburgh - enough said, eh?  I though this was tried with
later SIIAs??

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Easton Trevor <Trevor_Easton@dofasco.ca>
Subject: Breakfast?
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:23:00 -0500

>Why is the grille front panel called a "breakfast"?  Mark

>Because it was two eggs on it, ofcourse...

I thought it was because the structure of the front bulkhead is like a
"Dog's breakfast"

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:31:26 -500
Subject: Breakfast Forever!

OK Trevor,
Now please tell me, what is a "dog's breakfast"?
And how many slabs is it worth?
Mark

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:47:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 2nd Vehicles

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, MOKE67@aol.com wrote:
>I sold my RHD ser IIA and still grieve for her. But I bought a Range Rover to
>replace it.The wife drives an I*s*zu Pooper. 170K and still going..For the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>replace it.The wife drives an I*s*zu Pooper. 170K and still going..For the
>summer I have my 67 Austin Moke RHD.

We've got a '67 as well.  LHD, though.  How's it running?

Rgds,
_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:47:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Snow chains

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, "Tom Rowe" <trowe@cdr.wisc.edu> wrote:

>> DON'T PUT TIRE CHAINS ON THE FRONT ONLY  

If you're at the point where you have to put chains on a 4x4 vehicle, you are 
driving off-road for all intents and purposes.  The conditions described sound 
like glare ice.  Which would have been better?  To do a couple 360s but still 
have steering or to have great foward motivation and no ability to steer.  Just 
my opinion based on quite a bit of driving in the snow belt (especially last 
season).  YMMV.

>When I used to drive between NYC and VT in near blizzard conditions I often 
>saw more 4WD's in the ditches than anything else.

How true.  Sounds like the northeast may have some snow this evening, too bad I 
don't have the Rover running.  I usually end up making a weekend's worth of beer 
money towing JGC and Pathfinder drivers out of the ditch while on the way to VT. 
 I know by memory where almost all these vehicles' tow points are :)

Rgds,
_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:47:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: More Important Land Rover Content

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Jeffrey A Berg <jeff@purpleshark.com> wrote:

>And, although I can't remember through the haze caused by shots that Zippy
>forced upon us, (not to mention the delirium of an oncoming virus which hit
>me the next day) I think I may have tossed the metric line at Eric's
>ex--"The Blonde"--last Friday night. (Once again, she asked for it!) Zippy,
>help me remember what happened...

Well, lets see:  I think you offered to pay me to take your Rover...something 
about wanting one of those new Jeeps....

You really shouldn't eat the worm in the Tequila bottle. :)

Rgds,
_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: LR Prices
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 13:44:00 PST

Thought the 6 cylinder was 2.6l. AFAIK the series III had option of 2.25 
petrol, 2.5 petrol or 2.5 diesel (all 5 bearing? someone must know!)

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT
 ----------

Engines: I have a 2.25 3 bearing. I think the 5 bearing came in later
(early '80s?). I assume swapping between the 3 bearing and 5 bearing is
not a problem - as I might do this when I replace my current (tired, but
nothing seriously wrong with it) engine).
The 2.5 petrol engine was 6 cylinder, and the idea originated with
the Duke of Edinburgh - enough said, eh?  I though this was tried with
later SIIAs??

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:53:00 -500
Subject: Free Tows

Eric Zipppppp,
Is it true you offer free tows all over the US?
Mark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:01:07 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LR Prices

. I hear the
>headlights-on-the-wings was for the EEC. Probably slightly better than the
>SI/II arrangement I guess.
Not so.Australian/American vehicle lighting laws.

>The 2.5 petrol engine was 6 cylinder, and the idea originated with
>the Duke of Edinburgh - enough said, eh?  I though this was tried with
>later SIIAs??
Surely you mean the 2.6?The 2.5 was/is a four cyl enlargement of the
2.25 5 bearing engine.

cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 08:47:18 EST
From: rscholl@lib.com
Subject: Re: Jump seats for sale

     Alex -
     
        I am not sure of their value, I will check & let you know.  please 
     send me your e-mail address direct. Thanks.
     
     rscholl@lib.com
     Ray Scholl

> Subject: Jump seats for sale
> Author:  Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com at mailgate

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> 69IIa
> 89 Rangie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:17:29 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: towing

>>I Would like to tow a 97 D90 behind a camper. Does anyone know how
>>this is accomplished without burning out the seals in the tranny.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>deck? The manual emphasises that the central diff will be toast
>unless the driveshaft to the rear axle is removed.

To Add:

        Either trailer it or flat-tow it with the transfer in neutral.A
two-wheel dolly will either, 1) as above, kill the center diff (Range
Rovers with viscous couplings have been known to lock up and try to crawl
off the dolly into the back of the towing vehicle, though usually something
breaks first).
         I had a customer who wanted (insisted) that we have a pair of
those drive shaft disconnects welded to the driveshafts on his Range Rover.
A cable led to the drivers area and a quick pull would uncouple the shafts.
I'm not sure how strong those devices are, but you should be able to find
an ad in Trailer Life or Motorhome for them.

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:19:55 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LR Prices

>been told that the III makes more sense for an everyday driver.
>Is this only from the comfort point of view, for if so, I will chase
>the IIA?  I know of the instrument panel style/location change
>and of the different steering wheel.  And, of course, the front
>panels are quite different.
  BTW, is the series III a leaf sprung design?
Well,FWIW I drive a late 11A,and possess no other vehicle.Actually,
you've missed a bit of history out.The late S11A has the wing mounted
headlights whilst retaining the centre dash panel.The S111 is leaf sprung.
The steering wheel changed to the "S111" type during the lifetime of
the 11A,but with the advent of the S111 the horn push moved from
the steering wheel centre to one of those horrible column mounted
stalk things.
Other changes:
Fresh air heater.Heater? Well,OK.
Different clutch actuating mechanism for lighter pedal pressure.
Plastic Grille.
Change to the windscreen/bulkhead mounting brackets.
All synchro gearbox.This is widely held to be less robust than
the old half synchro box.
Different door hinges.
Different window locks.
Plaggy dash panel.
Self parking wipers.
Separate hydraulic fluid reservoirs for clutch and brakes.Also
different master cylinders.
Deluxe? seats.
Salisbury axle.
The diesel version had its hand throttle mounted on the centre
bulkhead,instead of to the left of the instrument panel,mainly
perhaps,because the panel werent there no more.
"Rationalisation" of wheel nut sizes.Although,again,my late 11A
88" has the larger wheel nuts and is a Nov '70 vehicle.
No doubt I've forgotten something,but off the top of my head......

Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: "John J. Tackley" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:19:58 -500
Subject: Plug #s

Try Bosch Platinum:  very resistant to fouling and last and last and 

Bosch Stock # is 4118

p/n is WR8D/ (S or C or P suffix is OK), ie. WR8D/P

K-Marts and Wal-Marts got em in 4 packs, @9 bucks.

Same plug I use in my Harley, BTW.  Curious isn't it, that engines of 
the same relative vintage (or more correctly, technological 
engineering level. Actually the Harley design predates the LR by a 
few decades.), one 2 cyl. air cooled, the other one not, use the same plugs.

(So, what's wrong with Champions, anyway?
Uh-Oh, not meant to start a thread.......what the hay.......
So let's see, 9 bucks US dollars would be 'X' BPs, 'X' CA $s, etc., etc.
Wait gotta get out the calculator, oh no! the batteries are dead.
Now I gotta  find that old Sweda.  Oh Damn.  
Now where did I leave that Abacus........think I left it on the 
tractor.....last time I was calculating # of pounds / liters of  $H!^ 
per US gallon of petrol  I could spread with that ancient Heil spreader, 
the LR of manure spreaders.....
*** John J. Tackley, Richmond, VA ***
* '74 SIII 88" "Gen. Lee" *
* '81 300SD *
* '89 FLHS "OINK" (That'l do, pig) *

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:26:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Website OK or Not?

Some people have too much time on their hands to complain about anything for
the sake of it. Just as your website was accorded some leeway with regard to
content, the list should give "some" leeway to your posting. What's so
annoying about a couple of lines posting about a new site? It was the
multiple posting that offended many...  

Does everybody open every piece of mail? Or does one ever skip some with
Subject Lines you don't really delve too deep into? I must admit that I
skipped the tractor and computer debate... quietly.

I have more problems with real long junk e-mails that only give you "remove"
instructions at the end and other, non-list, anonymous people's mail
containing 400k headers and attachments...

What's the big (tremendous) deal? It was only a notice for a new site, not an
ad for parts by a business, not an ad to sell subscriptions to FW or anything
so "commercial". I also failed to see any rare toys for sale :-)

Tired of www.lrna.com,

pat.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:27:02 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: LR Prices

Thought the 6 cylinder was 2.6l. AFAIK the series III had option of 2.25
>petrol, 2.5 petrol or 2.5 diesel (all 5 bearing? someone must know!)

AFAIK,2.25 petrol & diesel,2.6 petrol (109 only),up until the "Stage 1"
V8.Also 109 only.

Crankshaft was altered to 5 bearing during production of the S111,
engine sizes remained the same.Dont know the date of alteration
though.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:26:16 +0100
Subject: Keyless entry

Brian wants a keyless entry for his RR. I have one in my lightweight: I open 
the window (from outside), put my arm in the car and unlock the thing. Is it 
keyless or not? Or do you mean something else...

Philippe Carchon
'81Lightweight
Ghent, Belgium

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:49:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 2nd Vehicle people types...

So, it seems we have two basic types on the list:

1) Those who use a vehicle to replace the broken vehicle ie: another LR,
several LRs, borrow wife's, or drive resto-heap or other car...
2) Those who try an alternate form of transport ie: bus, bike, feet or
thumb... 
(how & where does one ride one's thumb, Franz ;-) ?)

Both types hate commercial advertising...

I locked my bike and keys in my rover last night (lr content) Also inside the
rover is the sump oil drain plug since I was changing the oil at the time....
So much for my alternate transport...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:30:12 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Rear wiper motors

Hey, I don't need a motor to wipe my rear. Manually works JUST FINE.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:00:06 +0200
From: pwakefie@isd3.esrin.esa.it (Paul Wakefield - System Manager (SERCO) X492)
Subject: Land Rover backed up against the _DIKE_

Now Now Dave stop that !

> Non-Dairy Creamers, Sponge Layer Cakes, Trash bags, Pattern Wallpaper, Clowns,
> Deodorant, Toothpaste, Cologne,  Potato Chips, Favorite Chinese Food, Sitcoms,
> Pick-up Lines.

Are you trying to shorten the life expectancy of the 'list purists' 8^)

Hmm, chatup lines, now this could be an acceptable Roverability subject.
How about "if you would like a lift home, it's this or a taxi" 

Occasionally we do launch off at a tangent, but it's usually in good (hmm, maybe 
not) taste, e.g. 

T1) The Left / Right hand drive thread
T2) The Electrolytic Corrosion thread
T3) Petrol Costs in USA vs Rest of World.
T4) Cooking methods and roadkill recovery
T5) Largest impact a Land Rover can withstand (Other Vehicles)

And don't forget the old favourites,

OF1) Free Wheel Hub Flame wars
OF2) Overdrive Flame wars
OF3) Winch Flame wars
OF4) Carburettor choice
OF5) Bleeding Brakes  
OF6) Oil leaks
OF7) Sound deadening techniques
OF9) Engine repower choices
OF10) Hi-Lift mounting

Actually after compiling _this_ list, maybe its time for a change :-}
Anyone need a recipe for Tiramisu ?

Cheers, Paul.

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:02:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: LR Prices

In a message dated 97-01-24 09:20:37 EST, you write:

<< "Rationalisation" of wheel nut sizes.Although,again,my late 11A
 88" has the larger wheel nuts and is a Nov '70 vehicle.
 No doubt I've forgotten something,but off the top of my head......
  >>

Some time in the evolution there was a change in the flywheel housing.  My 68
IIa has a flat plain outline but my 70 IIa is a ribbed housing.  (Maybe it
followed the clutch changes...anybody know?)

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:19:09 +0200
From: jros@argus.co.za (Jonathan Rosenthal)
Subject: No escape - hah hah hah

You can check out any time you like....but you can never leave

>        Reply to:   STOP IT! STOP PLEASE!
>from: pmcmaster@spaceport.ca
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
>From: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.su
>------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jonathan  Rosenthal
| Industrial Reporter
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
| Tel: (011) 633-2638
| Fax: (011) 838-2693
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 11:36:17 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Anybody Seen my Seals? The Sequel

OK, so here's the second half of the story about my clutch repair 
adventure. Part I left us with a freshly replaced new/used/who knows when 
its gonna blow up axle shaft and a new drive flange of the same vintage. 
Still nowhere near the requisite pressure available to operate the clutch. 
So the wing came off in about 20 mniutes, and then the Clutch Master came 
out, and the brake fluid/bubbled paint finish wiped from the firewall.
It is possible to remove the clutch master without removing the pedal tower 
from the vehicle, BTW.  Not easy though, sorta like one of those really 
frustrating...well, anyway, I did it. I decided to paint the firewall where 
the old paint had come off. Easy. Done. Right. The primer caused the paint 
to bubble too. Wiped that off, tried other primer. Son of a Bitch! Same 
f***in' thing. (Hope any fragile children aren't reading this). So I kept 
doing it over and over until it worked, and then I glopped on another 2 or 
3 coats. Great. Put the new Master Cylinder in, then remembered the nut on 
the adjuster rod. Took the Master Cylinder out again. Put the Master 
Cylinder back in again. Hooked it all up, bled it a gazillion times, got 
all the little pieces of hardware off the breakfast and went for a spin up 
the road and around the block, wing off and flingin' water up over 
everything, and decided that it needed adjusting. So I adjusted it, and 
then went for another drive around the block and down the street and then 
up the other way and then back. Everything seemed hunky-doodly so I did a 
quick bang up job (pun intended) of pounding out the dent in the wing, 
since it was off. Went to put the wing back on and relaized that one of the 
stud plates that hold the breakfast to the wing was missing. Hmm, I guess I 
forgot to take them out before I went for ye olde test drive. So I walked, 
eyes searching intently for the escapee. I walked...up the road and around 
the block and then down the street and up the other way and then back again 
and good god almighty there it is! I casually sauntered out into the street 
in front of an oncoming car, willfully standing my ground beteween my 
bounty and this hurtling (15mph) mass of japanese steel. The car thankfully 
went around. I picked up my prize nonchalantly and returned victorious to 
my driveway. BTW, this thing looked like a serious tire eater sittin in the 
road like that. So I took some pictures of the Green Car minus her left 
flank for the hell of it and then put it all back together, just as the sun 
fell out of the sky and Old Man Winter reared his fugly little cold 
head...It still aint perfect, probably the slave cylinder following 
suit...much easier to replace I think...

Hope you are all not too bored with my story;
Its better than reading about some ridiculous camera!
Later
DaveB. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:54:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@nrn1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: LR Prices

On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Mike Rooth wrote:

> >headlights-on-the-wings was for the EEC. Probably slightly better than the
> >SI/II arrangement I guess.
> Not so.Australian/American vehicle lighting laws.

	Must be Aussie...  Look at Jeeps and the lighting layout.
	Don't think the USA was that much or a problem.  For the
	couple hundred, upward of a thou or two they were selling
	over here, it isn't worth the change.

	Rgds,

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:18:40 -500
Subject: Engine What'll It Be?

Pretend you are staring at an empty LR engine compartment, 
there is a small wad of cash in your pocket and your beer fridge
is chock full.  Pretend, remember.

If you were to choose either the 2.25 petrol 3 bearing or the 2.5 
petrol 5 bearing, which would it be?  Take into account the 
maintainability, parts availability, reliability and any other ...ability 
I haven't thought of.  Mark

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:25:59 -500
Subject: Gods Must Be Crazy?

Where can I get a copy of "The Gods Must Be Crazy".  The first one 
starring the Land Rover with the atomic winch.  You know the film.
I have tried to rent it or buy it locally.  No luck.
Did you guys buy up all the copies???
Mark
BTW, not to start another thread, but when did they take the hyphen 
out of Land Rover?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:51:21 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Other car

At  6:30 AM 1/24/97 -0500, WAHORN@aol.com wrote:
;
>I probably have the most fun "other car" next to my 109". A 1989 Honda CRX
>with ported, polished and shaved head. Cam, overbored throttlebody, headers,
;large exhaust and lightened flywheel. Oh yea and Nitrous too. Yes it is fast,
>very.
;
>Ashley Horn
;
Sigh ... now for the my other car is better than yours thread,,childish,
but irresistable ;*)

Next to my 109 is my other car. A 1960 Triumph TR3A with ported, polished
and shaved head.  280 deg cam, 87mm oversize pistons, dual 45DCOE carbs,
chrome four tube header, fully balanced engine, nitrided crank, special HD
rocker arm assy, with shortened hollow pushrods (stock are solid rods),
mechanical fan replaced by electric fan, special harmonic dampener to allow
higher reves, external oil cooler, polished stainless steel brake lines,
polished finned aluminum valve cover, intake manifolds, thermostat housing,
water pump pully and finned aluminum sump.  With the bonnet down, the
Triumph looks like a brand new 98 point concourse car (The sill caps are
stainless, not the stock unpolished aliminum, and I polished the grill).
The interior and exterior are perfect.  She's is in her factory original
trim with the exception of chrome wire wheels.  Signal red, black interior
with white piping, white side curtains, white soft top, white removable
hard top.

When you pop the bonnet, the car looks like a new car that has been period
hot roded, complete with a Moon valve cover breather, and I loose my
concourse standing.  Other than the stainless brake lines, all the fittings
in the engine bay are very correct and as new.

And unlike a newish Japanese car, you don't lose a TR3 in a parking lot
among all the other cars looking just like it.  You need to start with a
car that has chrisma and go from there.  A common newish economy sedan may
not be the best starting point for a cool car award.

Be careful when you say you have the coolest other car.  There are a lot of
Land Rover owners out there with cooler second cars than mine.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:54:22 -0800
From: gpool@pacific.net (Granville Pool)
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

Mark,

>Pretend you are staring at an empty LR engine compartment, 
>there is a small wad of cash in your pocket and your beer fridge
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>maintainability, parts availability, reliability and any other ...ability 
>I haven't thought of. 

In the U.S., parts availability heavily favors the 3-bearing engine.

Cheers,

Granny

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:07:20 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

At 12:18 PM 1/24/97 -0500, Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
>Pretend you are staring at an empty LR engine compartment,
>there is a small wad of cash in your pocket and your beer fridge
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>maintainability, parts availability, reliability and any other ...ability
>I haven't thought of.  Mark

Depends upon where you are and how much you want to hassle getting parts.
The 2.5l engine was never imported into the US.  This means engine parts
will be mail order from the UK, and not mail order from one of the three
main US parts suppliers. And you may want to carry a larger stock of
spares.

The 2.5 is larger, stronger with the 5 mains, more powerful, comes stock
with a dual venturi carb and spin on oil filter.  The 2.25 can take
advantage of the 2.5L cam, & intake system (you should get the 2.5L exhaust
header too).  If you hot rod the 2.25 you can get up to the power of a
stock 2.5L, or so I'm told.

Considering the increased milage, I would consider the 2.5l turbocharged diesel.

If I personally were in the market for a new engine for my 109, and wanted
to keep it Land Rover I would be trying to decide between the 2.5L petrol
and the 2.5L turbo diesel.  I'd bite the bullet & mail order from the UK
for engine parts.  If i didn't want to keep it Land Rover I would be
deciding between the Chevy 4 cyl and a Ford V6.  The Ford V6 fits very
nicely and is an extreamly popular swap in the UK.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:12:55 -0800
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Pain

S. Vels wrote:
> What a great week!!!
> Not only did i have to see the dentist this week (root canal), but
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 43 lines)]
> rgds
> sv/aurens
Det var kedeligt at høre - Hvem i Danmark vil stjåle en Land Rover? Hvor
bor du hen? (forhåbentligt ikke i Skanderborg - jeg troede Land Rovere
var fredet her! Tanken om Ranbuktyve er måske rigtigt!

Alligevel, var jeg ked at høre din historie! Men godt nok at de ikke fik
bilen med!

-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 13:20:52 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Other car

At  6:30 AM 1/24/97 -0500, WAHORN@aol.com wrote: 
;
>I probably have the most fun "other car" next to my 109". A 1989 Honda CRX 
>with ported, polished and shaved head. Cam, overbored throttlebody, headers, 
;large exhaust and lightened flywheel. Oh yea and Nitrous too. Yes it is fast, 
>very.
;
>Ashley Horn
;
Sigh ... now for the my other car is better than yours thread,,childish, 
but irresistable ;*)

Next to my 109 is my other car. A 1960 Triumph TR3A with ported, polished and 
shaved head. 

I assume that you folks shave your heads so that you will be more 
aerodynamic with the top down. Is this correct?
DaveB.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:31:15 -0800
From: Chris Dow <dow@thelen.org>
Subject: Re: LR Prices
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Dixon Kenner wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Mike Rooth wrote:
> > >headlights-on-the-wings was for the EEC. Probably slightly better
than the
> > >SI/II arrangement I guess.
> > Not so.Australian/American vehicle lighting laws.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>         couple hundred, upward of a thou or two they were selling
>         over here, it isn't worth the change.

An Aussie on this list recently stated that the laws in Australia do
dictate the wider placement of headlamps.

C

------------42D77E6F29FA3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<HTML><BODY>

<DT>Dixon Kenner wrote:<BR>
&gt; On Fri, 24 Jan 1997, Mike Rooth wrote:<BR>
&gt; &gt; &gt;headlights-on-the-wings was for the EEC. Probably slightly
better than the<BR>
&gt; &gt; &gt;SI/II arrangement I guess.<BR>
&gt; &gt; Not so.Australian/American vehicle lighting laws.<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Must be Aussie...&nbsp;
Look at Jeeps and the lighting layout.<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Don't think the USA
was that much or a problem.&nbsp; For the<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; couple hundred, upward
of a thou or two they were selling<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; over here, it isn't
worth the change.<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>An Aussie on this list recently stated that the laws in Australia do
dictate the wider placement of headlamps.</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>C</DT>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------------42D77E6F29FA3--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:40:51 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

No question, a bored and stroked big block Chevy Rat motor with a 6:71 
blower, nitrous oxide, roller rockers, a couple of 1150 cfm holley carbs, 
Hi-E ignition....puttin' out about 750 hp ! 
Ooops, sorry this is for the Four Wheeler readers...Ummm, with limited 
cash, I'd put in a well-examined 2.25 petrol and if you're feeling extra 
flush, a diesel. 
Although the diesel has a higher initial cost, it works out being more 
economical in terms of better mileage, lower maintenance cost and 
longevity.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:46:54 -0800
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: SIII Gearbox-outing

Calling all Series III gearbox buffs!

MY SIII 109D 1976 failed its MOT yesterday as the inspector discovered
that the gearbox "hops out of 2nd" - assurances that there were plenty
of alternative ratios in the box failed to impress - so the box-out
which was scheduled for the warmer weather, or for the mechanic, is now
set for next weekend as I need the b###er on the road and I can save a
bob or two by removing/installing myself. Also i can paint the
surrounding frame and undercarriage at the same time.

I have never removed gearbox before, so i am interested in the recipe
from anyone with hand-on experience.

I know that I must first remove floor-plates, tunnel arch, and seat-box,
but what then? what removals in what order?

And what about the clutch, can the box be removed without disturbing the
clutch hydraulics? (Clutch is 2 yrs old and works fine, should this be
replaced just because the gearbox is out or will it be ok for a while?
Any comments?

I have several friends and neighbours in my area who drive series trucks
but noone I know does their own maintenance, so I will be doing this
alone, with the help of a friend and maybe the wife for the actual lift
job. Though if I knew a Danish LRO in my area who wanted to keep in
practice - I'd offer a case of beer and a happening-curry in exchange
for a hand!

Box will be rebuilt whilst it is out - should I consider installing
overdrive at the same time, or can this be done later, without having to
split the whole furniture again?

And has anyone tried mounting a shorter stick on the gearbox (child in
centre "deluxe" seat always conflicts with 2nd and 4th? Apart from
originality, is there any good reason why a Series III stick couldn't be
a short as a Massey-Ferguson 35 shift? Maybe it might wobble less at
high speed?

Any words of wisdom are welcome (though i am not trying to start another
Overdrive flame war!

-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:23:02 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

>If you were to choose either the 2.25 petrol 3 bearing or the 2.5
>petrol 5 bearing, which would it be?  Take into account the
>maintainability, parts availability, reliability and any other ...ability
>I haven't thought of.

        2.5L petrol. Marginally more powerful (longer stroke) and durable.
Not as well cast or machined as some of the early 2A blocks but if you get
a quality rebuilt (Turner perhaps), it should be very reliable and very
snappy to boot.Short of major repairs, there should be no real differnce in
maintenance and with the engine still in production, parts are not a
probelm (at least in the U.K, I suppose), unlike the 3-main engines.
        If I had lots-o-cash, I'd install Zeus gears, have it balanced and
set it up with a two-barrel. It would brobably be able to honestly make the
81 hp advertised for so many years (bear in mind that a good running 2.25
cranks out 65 "real" hp on a dyno).

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:56:30 -500
Subject: Paint Method Exploration

On wooden sailboat hull topsides, I use a roller-and-brush-tip paint
application method.  Honestly, it looks sprayed when dry. Has
anyone experience with this method on aluminum hulls
 ...err panels?  Mark

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:23:37 -0700
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Fitting an electric fan

There's a note in the Jan issue of LRW which says that a thermostatically
controlled electric fan helps a 2.25 engine run more efficiently in an Sll.
Fine, that sounds like a good idea and I've thought about it before.  But my
question is; what do you do with the existing mechanical fan?  Does it come
off?  And I'm assuming that the temperature setting is adjustable on
electric fans, right?

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada

------------------------------

From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:27:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

In a message dated 97-01-24 12:36:04 EST, you write:

<< If you were to choose either the 2.25 petrol 3 bearing or the 2.5 
 petrol 5 bearing, which would it be?  Take into account the 
 maintainability, parts availability, reliability and any other ...ability 
 I haven't thought of >>

No question--2.5  5 bearing petrol.   Very nice engine and it should bolt in
with little or no modification.

Nate
NADdMD@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:34:46 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Paint Method Exploration

Works just fine. Good old Z-Spar is a fine choice, and there are colors 
that closely match ( Limestone anyway). I would suggest a foam roller and 
a healthy dollop of Brush-Ease followed by a feathering with a really 
good brush. The only caution is that topsides paints are designed to 
chalk, and that you should keep a coat of carnauba wax on it. You already 
knew that if you are a yatter.
Prep the surface with a deglosser if it still has paint. Otherwise you'll 
need a self-etching primer. This should be about two shelves down at the 
marine supply store. Z-Spar, Petit, and Interlux all make one.
They also have a two-part epoxy paint that goes on with a roller. 
Expensive, sure...but will really last.
For extra good measure, you could wet sand the whole shebang after it 
dries/cures for a month or so and then compound it to show-car shine. But 
who cares.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:56:48 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Fitting an electric fan

Removing the pulley driven fan reduces the horsepower drain when moving 
at higher speeds, when the fan isn't doing anything anyway. Obviously the 
original fan comes off (save it). The electric fan has a preset that 
turns it on when the engine coolant gets too hot, usually at idle or low 
speeds when air moving thru the radiator is slower.
Don't expect much seat-of-the-pants improvement in power.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:56:45 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Engine What'll It Be?

Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
> If you were to choose either the 2.25 petrol 3 bearing or the 2.5
> petrol 5 bearing, which would it be?  Take into account the
> maintainability, parts availability, reliability 

Well, that's limiting the pretending rather seriously :)

Given the constraints, if you're in the US there'd be no question
in my mind .. the 2.25.  It probably lacks the extra 0.25% hp ( :) )
of the 2.5 but parts availability and hence the ability to work
on it in the future are limited (not to mention cost).

I went the 2.25 route when I was considering this.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:58:33 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Hyphens was Re: Gods Must Be Crazy?

Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
snip
> BTW, not to start another thread, but when did they take the hyphen
> out of Land Rover?

When they stopped making Land-Rovers.    :)

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:08:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Literary Land Rovers

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 James Howard <jdh@sextans.lowell.edu> asked: <What did
he write?

Edward Abbey wrote a book titled "Desert Solitaire" about his life as a park
ranger in the then-deserted Canyonlands.  Jim Allen would have approved;
Abbey carried a.455 Webly.

<The PO of my Land Rover, Rich Turner, loved to take it to Canyonlands.

There was a Mike Turner in Grand Junction Colorado who owned Land Rovers and
used to visit the canyonlands during the 70s.

------------------------------

From: SACME@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:23:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Valve train damage, 2.25 petrol

Need feedback on consequences of too-tight valve adjustment that LRO's and LR
mechanics have experienced or know about.  

Local machine shop rebuilt my 2.25 petrol and now claims destruction of
rollers (severe circumferential scoring and transverse grooving) and loss of
babbit metal from tappets on bottom (roller) end is result of too-tight valve
adjustment (<.010 in.).  Engine has 3,955 miles on it since rebuild.  First
indication of trouble was irregular clickity-clack sound that could be heard
loudly with "screwdriver stethescope" held on rocker shaft securing bolt
between #3 & #4 cylinders.  Odometer read 76162 miles at time of rebuild; I
don't know if this is same as engine miles as I am not original owner.  

The machine shop was given "carte blanche" to replace any and all parts they
deemed out of allowable tolerance or visually worn, and they chose not to
replace rollers, tappets, tappet guides or camshaft.  Camshaft bearings were
replaced. Haynes Manual and photocopies of relevant pages from factory Series
III Manual were provided to machine shop.  

I am searching for most probable, true, cause and not for "win" over the
machine shop, which is a long-established, well-reputed, company.  Let the
"egg" land wherever the evidence/historical experience indicates it should.
 If you need more info to help uncover problem, just ask.    

To save digest bandwidth, please reply direct to sacme@aol.com.  My sincere
thanks to all who respond.

Doug Scott,
Monmouth, Maine, USA    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:30:35 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: movie sighting

Watched a movie called Human Timebomb (1996) t'other night.  Emphasis on the
*bomb* part.  But, there were a bunch of LR's running around at the
beginning.  One gets totalled by a run-away plane.  (A 109reg, I think)  One
of 'em looked not right to me in parts (the one the head bad guy was chasing
the good guy in) but it could have been just because it was way past my
bedtime.  

Note: don't bother watching after they get caught; there are no more LR's,
and it's not that good.  (I saved y'all the trouble -- ain't I a nice guy?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:30:29 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: More Important Land Rover Content

At 10:32 AM 1/23/97 EST, you wrote:
>Non-Dairy Creamers

Oil from the diffs after wading

>Sponge Layer Cakes

Air filters from that second car (Drizzle 20w50 over for an simple, but
elegant dessert)

>Pattern Wallpaper

Use an extra copy of the factory manual so those sleepless nights and visits
from the in-laws can be put to good use.

>Deodorant/Antiperspirant

Orange Go-jo (with Pumice!)

>Toothpaste

Plain Go-jo

>Cologne 

90wt

>Favorite Chinese Food

hai-poi-doil

>Sitcoms

Radio Shack 40ch CB with weather radio (sit in passenger seat for best results)

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:30:32 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Re: LR PickUps

At 04:06 PM 1/23/97 -500, you wrote:
>What sorts of pick up lines would a LR generate?

Wanna see me go into overdrive?

I'm a free-wheeling hub kinda guy!

Let's have breakfast -- by my breakfast!

Those aren't oil leaks, it's my adult slip-and-slide!

I've got a built-in beer bottle opener!

It's not the size of your stick, it's how many!

Did I say Range Rover?  I meant Land Rover!

Are you into mud?  I'm into mud.  

You haven't lived until you've done it on the roof rack.

I've got a *long*-wheelbase, if you know what I mean.

Wanna come over and help me take my top off?

Baby, I can make your body quiver and shake; I can get your stomach doing
flip-flops; You'll dig your fingers into the cushions and you'll think
you've gone deaf and blind; you'll hang on for dear life during the wildest
ride of your life -- and that's just in first gear!

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.crane.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:50:22 -500
Subject: LR PickUps Rebutts

Uncle Roger rebuttal,
1.)  Where is the beer bottle opener?
2.)  I can now explain all the dents in aluminium tops.
Mark

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Blatent Commercialism
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:14:41 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

All right, you've all heard the old ``tired'' 

	"we don't want no stinking commercials on our mailing list"

line, read the messages, wrote the book, been there done that.

That's right TIRED.  This is the '90's, Internet commerce is where
its going, advertisements pay for all those 'FREE' services on the
WEB, most of you surf from your employer's lines or subscribe to
services that give you data and innundate you with adverts at the
same time.

And we all know that this time of year, when even Dixon won't
venture out into the barn to work under the Land Rover, the
subscribers get a bit wacky with cabin fever, so with that in mind
Bills going to don that expensive (and capitialist) pyrotech suit
and turn up the heat a bit, 'cause the gas log leaves his flat a
bit cold in these bitter New England nights.

So strap yourselves in, we're going for a ride....

	- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The new LRO lists policy on Commercial Advertising:

Bill says:
   "I don't mind Blatant Commercialism, as long as I profit from it."

If you commercial types want to advertise on the internet, then
you work for eight years without pay to build up a body of 2000
interested potential buyers to send your adverts to.  But if you're
going to nick my mail list for your customer list and use CPU cycles
on machines you don't own to send out adverts, think again.  It
costs money for domain names and it costs money for access and
bribes to sysadmins and network gurus and domain administrators
and all that. (Not to mention travelling to LR events promoting
the list.)

So, we'll still tolerate the individual user's classified ads as
community service thing, because they are our community, but  if
you want your services advertised, then contact yours truely
regarding terms and conditions.

I of course, reserve the right to not accept advertisements which
may not be of suitable content, subject matter, or might upset the
minority of overly senstive new-age politically correct readers.
[Hey, I said I wanted part of the profit, not the greif.]

	Cheers,
	- Bill Caloccia                 wpc@Caloccia.Net
					http://www.caloccia.net/wpc/

PS: the top level LRO pointers page averaged over 1000 hits per month
through-out last year - now that is good visibility for your 60x400
pixel banner ! Not to mention various lists with about 2000 subscribers
receiving messages daily.

Payment via checks accepted in US Dollars or Pounds Sterling,
untraceable liquid assets (precious metals, gemstones, cash, parts)
or/and other equitable arrangements as negotiated on an individual
provider basis.

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:30:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Snow chains

>If you're at the point where you have to put chains on a 4x4 vehicle, you 
>are driving off-road for all intents and purposes.

For many years, in the early '70's, I did survey work in the southwest.  
I bought my '70 IIa (brand new) for the purpose.  I always carried 
4-wheel chains, since I did mostly off-road, and a lot of 
no-road/x-country traveling, however, I have never used the chains in 
snow.

There are plenty of places in the desert with heavy clay soil.  A sudden 
rain could turn a hard surface into a bog of clay-mud that sticks to your 
tires & makes them ice-slick, or travel accross playas/salt flats could 
drop you through the thin crust into bottomless muck.  Roadless in the 
San Raphael Swell one January, I broke through the ice on a river 
crossing into quick-sand.  In all of these situations, 4-wheel chains 
turned Lulubelle from a doomed quadraped into a little paddle-wheel 
steamer.  In low-low & max RPM's, she was propelled forward more by the 
muck she was shoveling out behind her than any contact with the ground.  
The only problem was that I didn't always anticipate the situation and 
put the chains on first.  In Black Rock I had to use the tailgate for a 
jacking base to put on 4-wheel chains, then use the other body panels as 
a portable roadbed to drive out on.  You can still see the chain marks on 
parts of the car.

Great vehicle, the Land Rover.  Built on the old erector-set principle.  
Just try to rescue a Buick with its own body panels.

Anthony R. Sanna
SACO Foods, Inc.
6120 University Ave.
Middleton, WI  53562
1-800-373-7226

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 16:53:13 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re[2]: Blatent Commercialism

>And we all know that this time of year, when even Dixon won't 
>venture out into the barn to work under the Land Rover, 

Ummm....when DOES he work on (or under) it?? I could give 
examples...

>Payment via checks accepted in US Dollars or Pounds Sterling, 
>untraceable liquid assets 

Sorry, I drank all my liquid assetseses...I don't have anything to 
*hic* advertise anyway...

I say right on, Bill! Way to milk it dude.
Just hope it doesn't get outta hand.
Until Next week, when I can return courtesy of my employer... 
Later
DaveB.

------------------------------

From: "Beckett, Ron" <rbeckett@nibupad.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Literary Land Rovers
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 09:22:00 EST

>Does anyone know of other literary Land Rovers - no matter how
>improbable?  Should Mr. Hillerman receive a nasty letter from BMW for
>trademark infringement, as Imus did from Chrysler for using "jeep" in
>God's Other Son?

Tony,  I've just finished Dick Francis' latest novel, "Come to Grief". In 
this
villain drives a blue Land Rover.  In fact he bought it from a company which
sold 250 LRs in one year!

A lot of Dick Francis books hav LRs 'cos they are about the horse racing 
industry

Regards,

Ron

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:25:06 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Valve train damage, 2.25 petrol

Scott,

        .010" Clearance is definately NOT too tight. Billions of miles on
2.25 engines proves that!
        Without seeing the "evidence" I'd hazard a guess that IF the
problem relates to valve clearances, it's because the valves were
incorrectly adjusted. Frankly, this is a doubtful scenario anyway.The
valves would have been burned also.
        More than likely it's a lubrication problem. First, let me say that
the babbitt material on the tappett slides is only for break-in purposes
and that wear on this material is not an indicator that the part needs
renewal. Check page 22 of the 4-cylinder service training book! Also, a
re-used roller MUST be reinstalled so they ROTATE IN THEIR ORIGINAL
DIRECTION. Not mixing them up is  common sensical but few people know about
putting them back so they rotate in the same direction as previously
installed. I have heard of cam failures due to ignoring this rule.
        I've looked for a lubrication diagram to confirm my memory but
There doesn't seem to one in any of my literature. Odd! I'll have to wing
it and stand corrected if I am wrong.
        My recollection is that a good portion of the lubrication for the
rollers comes via a smaller hole in the very front cam bearing that leads
to a smaller oil passage for the tappets in the block. If this cam bearing
is installed incorrectly, failure of the tappets ensue. Since you said they
replaced the cam  bearings, this is a place to look and since it's at the
front, it'll be easy to see.
        Also, some lubrication comes down from the rocker area via the
pushrod holes. If the external oil feed line from the block to the head is
blocked, the oil hole in the head is blocked or the rocker shaft is
assembled incorrectly (i.e the oil holes in the shaft from the rockers are
not facing up), then the oil to the rockers, etc. is lessened or cut off
completely.
        Anybody got an oil feed diagram for a 2.25 to confirm my hypothesis?

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:25:02 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Valve train damage, 2.25 petrol

Scott,

        .010" Clearance is definately NOT too tight. Billions of miles on
2.25 engines proves that!
        Without seeing the "evidence" I'd hazard a guess that IF the
problem relates to valve clearances, it's because the valves were
incorrectly adjusted. Frankly, this is a doubtful scenario anyway.The
valves would have been burned also.
        More than likely it's a lubrication problem. First, let me say that
the babbitt material on the tappett slides is only for break-in purposes
and that wear on this material is not an indicator that the part needs
renewal. Check page 22 of the 4-cylinder service training book! Also, a
re-used roller MUST be reinstalled so they ROTATE IN THEIR ORIGINAL
DIRECTION. Not mixing them up is  common sensical but few people know about
putting them back so they rotate in the same direction as previously
installed. I have heard of cam failures due to ignoring this rule.
        I've looked for a lubrication diagram to confirm my memory but
There doesn't seem to one in any of my literature. Odd! I'll have to wing
it and stand corrected if I am wrong.
        My recollection is that a good portion of the lubrication for the
rollers comes via a smaller hole in the very front cam bearing that leads
to a smaller oil passage for the tappets in the block. If this cam bearing
is installed incorrectly, failure of the tappets ensue. Since you said they
replaced the cam  bearings, this is a place to look and since it's at the
front, it'll be easy to see.
        Also, some lubrication comes down from the rocker area via the
pushrod holes. If the external oil feed line from the block to the head is
blocked, the oil hole in the head is blocked or the rocker shaft is
assembled incorrectly (i.e the oil holes in the shaft from the rockers are
not facing up), then the oil to the rockers, etc. is lessened or cut off
completely.
        Anybody got an oil feed diagram for a 2.25 to confirm my hypothesis?

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:32:40 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Blatent Commercialism

Define "Commercial Types." Define EXACTLY what is commercial and what is
not. Is selling a few magazines or offering a vehicle for sale commercial?
Is mentioning an upcoming website like I did commercial or not. Your note
was too vague.

        Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:02:26 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: Gods Must Be Crazy?

Mark, anyone else who needs...
I just bought a new copy last month.  Here is the info:

"The Gods Must Be Crazy"
CBS/FOX Video
ISBN: 0-7939-1450-7

Cost me $12 US.

"They" think the star is the Coke bottle...

cheers,
Mike Johnson  N7WBO
74 SIII 88 (Chester)  25903561b
73 SIII 88 (Jezebel)  ?????????
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

From: JmieWilson@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:10:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: (Y)ikes

In a message dated 23/01/97  08:29:41, it was written:

<< 1. dike \'di-k\ n, fr. di-c ditch, dike; akin to pond, dike, figere to
fasten, 
 pierce 1: an artificial watercourse : DITCH dial Brit 2a: a wall or fence of

 turf or stone 2b: a bank usu. of earth constructed to control or confine
water 
  >>

In Scotland a dike is a stone wall (as in 2a) and you can actually go to
Agricultural College there and get a qualification in Diking at the same time
as studing Advanced Off Road Techniques in a Land Rover (supplied).  Might
come in handy whilst visiting SF.

Regards

Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:56:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Hank Rutherford <ruthrfrd@borg.com>
Subject: Old Tractors

               For those out there who like old farm machinery and good
light reading, pick up a copy of< Old Tractors and the Men who love them>
<how to keep your tractors happy and your family running> by Roger Welsch.
Seems this guy got interested in Allis Chalmers model WC's rather late in
life and since he was a writer, decided to write a book on his learning
experiences and subsequent oddball relationships. The funny thing is, if you
delete tractor and insert LandRover throughout the book, you'll have a
fairly accurate picture of <life with series landrovers>. Everything from
how to remove stuck bolts (exhaust manifold studs), to layers of rust
(frames vaporizing in the salt belt), to the strange looks you get from the
uninitiated (darn near everyone I know). Check it out. As a bonus, I don't
believe he mentions J**P even once.
                      
                                  Ruthrfrd@borg.com

                      62 swb SerIIa  -  as agricultural as the get  -  Gromit 

------------------------------

From: JmieWilson@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:01:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 2nd Vehicles, needs defining

Is a second vehicle the one in the drive that you don't use....  i.e. a
project vehicle.  Is there a need for the engine to run for it to be a second
vehicle and if so with how much ease??  Do the tyres need to be inflated or
just on the vehicle??  Is it OK to have a vegetation free zone under the
vehicle and what about vegetation growing up through the vehicle??  Does it
still count as a second vehicle if its primary use is as a shed??

Regards

Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:51:48 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Fitting an electric fan

At 12:23 PM 1/24/97 -0700, Rick Grant wrote:

>There's a note in the Jan issue of LRW which says that a thermostatically
>controlled electric fan helps a 2.25 engine run more efficiently in an Sll.
;Fine, that sounds like a good idea and I've thought about it before.  But my
>question is; what do you do with the existing mechanical fan?  Does it come
;off?

yes

> And I'm assuming that the temperature setting is adjustable on
>electric fans, right?
;
On the one I have for the TR3 there is an adjustment for tempreature in the
control box.

For best results get one with a sealed motor.  It should be as wide as the
radiator.  Set it up with a switch to turn off the fan while wading.  That
way it would not be spraying water all over your ignition system.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:27:42 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Wanted Choke cable

I need a good condition used choke cable for my 109.

There are a few types of choke cables so I'll describe the application.

Early series IIA, positive earth Land Rover (Has starter button on bulkhead
and push pull instrument switches).  The cable is mounted directly to the
bulkhead below the instrument panel near the starter button.  There is a
rectangular metal switch on the cable inside the engine compartment for the
cold running light.

Can some one please help me out?  If you have the proper cable in good
condition that you can spare, please send e-mail to twakeman@scruznet.com
and let me know how much you want for the cable.

At the moment, I lift the bonnet, set the choke and hope I get back into
the car & get it started before the spring pulls the choke off.

Thanks

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:39:10 -0700
From: Rick Grant <rgrant@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Fitting an electric fan

At 04:51 PM 24/01/97 -0800, TeriAnn Wakeman, wrote

>For best results get one with a sealed motor.  It should be as wide as the
>radiator.  Set it up with a switch to turn off the fan while wading.  That
>way it would not be spraying water all over your ignition system.

Good point.  I hadn't considered that and I'll make sure I set it up that
way.  However, you've triggered a frivolous thought here.  I could run a
prop on a shaft out of the PTO and have a Land/Sea Rover.

			Rick Grant

			1959, SII   "VORIZO"  

rgrant@cadvision.com	
www.cadvision.com/rgrant
Cobra Media Communications.  Calgary, Canada

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:49:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Pick-up Lines

DaveB has asked (for his shy friends, no doubt) for our favorite lines.

1.  Hello.  (smile, shutup and listen)

2.  How'd you like to go for a ride in my Land Rover?

3.  Can you help me please?  My Land Rover won't start.

4.  You wouldn't happen to have a 7/16" Whitworth wrench would you?  US

5.  You wouldn't happen to have a 7/16" Whitworth spanner would you?  UK

------------------------------

From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:02:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Yeah Dixon

Dixon Kenner wrote: "You should have a Mini Cooper S and a Land Rover".

Dixon:

Do you hang the MiniCooperS like a lifeboat from davits on the back of your
Land Rover?  With two British cars, at least one of them ought to be working
most of the time (unless you forget the toolkit).

Recuerdos,
Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover Dormobile

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:50:25 -0500
From: eheite@dmv.com (Ned Heite)
Subject: Bucket Seats

The "deluxe" black seats on my IIA SWB are coming apart at the seams, and a
seat replacement is imminent. A few weeks ago there was mention of using
Honda CRX seats. I understand that the CRX and Civic use the same buckets.
Since the local boutique de junque is full of Hondas, it would be
interesting to know experience on fitting these seats.

Does anyone have experience with the all-fiberglass bucket seats that are
sold for VW bugs? For $69 (new) you get a fibreglass bucket seat armature
with a padded cover that contains all the upholstery. Sounds like a neat
idea. Rover-worthy?

|--------------------------------------------------------|
| 69 Land Rover    Ned Heite                             |
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
|  eventually      http://home.dmv.com/~eheite/index.html|
|--------------------------------------------------------|

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:31:38 -0800
From: Norman Neiderer <neiderer@mars.ark.com>
Subject: JC whitney

Hi All,
I keep seeing "JC whitney" mentionned often on the list.I have never
heard of them in Canada. Are they a parts supplier in the US?
Thanks,
Norm  - 1969 NADA 6 cyl Dormobile-
      - 1996 B 4000 Mazda 4X4 P/U
-- 
Norman Neiderer
1595 Comox Avenue
Comox B.C., V9M 2M6, Canada
Tel/Fax: (604)339-2130

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:47:34 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Fitting an electric fan

At  6:39 PM 1/24/97 -0700, Rick Grant wrote:

>  However, you've triggered a frivolous thought here.  I could run a
>prop on a shaft out of the PTO and have a Land/Sea Rover.
:

Its already been done...by the factory.  Except if I remember its on the
rear prop shaft.  Read up on air portable Land Rovers.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:05:29 -0800
From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re: JC Whitney

At 09:31 PM 1/24/97 -0800, Norman Neiderer wrote:
:I keep seeing "JC Whitney" mentionned often on the list.I have never
:heard of them in Canada. Are they a parts supplier in the US?

 JC Whitless is a mail order catalog auto parts supplier/broker located
 in Chicago.  Their free catalog of many 'hard to find items' is worth
 many evenings of fasinating speculation.  Call 312-431-6102 or fax
 312-431-5625.

 Regards,

 Michael Carradine, Architect                        Ph/Fax 510-988-0900
 Unimog Network Int'l, Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA  <cs@crl.com>
 _______________________________________________________________________
 Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page:   http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html

------------------------------

From: "C. Paul Patsis" <cpaulp@ihevanet.com>
Subject: Hand throttle kit
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:33:32 -0800

Has anyone had any experience putting in a hand throttle on a D-90 or =
88. It seems as though it would be useful for winching to keep the rpm's =
up if you were in a situation where no one was available to manually =
keep the pedal down.

------------------------------

From: DPorter99@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:11:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Gods Must Be Crazy?

I got a copy!!! I love that movie!!! send mailing address

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:28:54 +0100
From: Floris Houniet <Houniet@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: SIII Frame Repairs

LT J Jackson wrote:

> I'm in the middle of a "holding action" with my SIII - not a true restoration,
> just a major disassembly/derusting/painting project which will keep the old
> truck ugly but serviceable, not unlike its owner.   Last weekend I pulled the
> starboard wing, took off all the rusty "stuff" on that side and sandblasted it
> - heater matrix, blower housing, bulkhead support, footwell etc.

You what? How did you sandblast it? Do you have a personal sandblasting
kit?
If so, are they expensive?
have fun,

Floris 'what a blast!' houniet.

------------------------------

From: ppinheiro@ip.pt
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:07:12 +0000
Subject: Consumption conversions

>Rover content: There seems to be quite a range of mileages being
>quoted here, from 8mpg to 18mpg. I assume all these are US gallons?
>Anyone know the conversion US Gall -> L? Can't seem to find it
>anywhere (and can't be bothered looking too hard).

 1 US gallon = 3.78 liters
 1 Mile = 1.609km

 L/100km = 100 / (mpg x 1.609 / 3.78)

 mpg = (100 / L/100Km) / 1.609 x 3.78

   Bye!

        '67 SIIA 88" Diesel 'Oscar' 24430781D
 AFS Exchange Student - Missouri, US, during 1993-94

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:31:56 +0100
From: Floris Houniet <Houniet@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: Snow chains

Jim Allen wrote:

> unweighted rears. The unweighted tires need the bite - if for nothing else
> to keep you from spinning out. Especially going downhill. Uphill, your rear
> tires get the weight transfer and the chains can be an aid there. If in
> doubt, chain up all around.

How strongly I agree!
I did a very nice 180 degree on the pass from Andorra to France in my
Ho**a with chains on the front (going downhill). I was doing about 7
mph, but i discovered about Jim's tip in a very slight corner. A bit of
fast steering, a big snowdrift helped and no tailgaters helped. Many
other chainless people we found in very much smaller and rounded cars on
the way down.

Floris Houniet.

------------------------------

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