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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 8:13:15 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Milling Aluminum?

So solly, I thought the price was for a finished lump and not for the raw 
material. Ouch! Too bad you aren't near a shipyard. In Baltimore and 
Norfolk, there are boatyards and scrap dealers who have chunks of stuff 
laying around for us scroungers. Amazing things get tossed in the tipper.
Customizing anything is always expensive, and you never get the money 
back from it if you ever sell.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 08:43:56 -0500
From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate)
Subject: LR 88 4 Sale in East TN

I am posting this because old LRs are as rare as hens teeth in these parts.
Britons, excuse me.  Usual disclaimers, yada yada yada.

>From Knoxville (Tennessee) News-Sentinel 3 Jan 97:

1966 LR 88, Rebuilt Engine, Removable Top (wow, really?), lots of new parts,
runs excellent. $4,500 423-671-0415

I called the lady at the number.  She said the LR came from the Atlanta
area. Said it needed interior work and paint only. Said they have records
from the P.O. Said the frame was good, and it was "really cute".  Their
neighbors are complaining about it being stored outside, and their new
Suburban made it redundant.  These are not aficionados, obviously.  If
anybody is seriously interested, I'd be happy go check it out for you. call
me - 423-435-3193(w)or 423-523-5136 (h).  I'm away from E-mail on weekends.

Scott Fugate
1970 IIa 88
1989 RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 06:47:14 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Which carb is Best??

 >I've read with interest the discusion about carbs and am puzzled why nobody
>talked about using the original Zenith.    I am finding the Zenith to be a
>hard-working, true
>to the original carb.
>Rick Snyder

Rick,
        All gear-heads tend to carry a (vocal) prejudice against whatever
part caused them the most trouble - even if they were the only one in the
world to have a problem with it. By in large, the Zenith is very much a
trouble free unit and even has some performance potential (did you note the
CFM figures posted earlier?).
        Lets do a survey! How about some short and to the point comments
from all the gear heads on carbs. Perhaps these two questions could be
answered

        1) What carb have you personally had the most trouble? Be fair, an
occasional glitch doesn't count. We're talking about hair-tearing,
left-me-in-the-boondocks, unfixable by all mortal means type problems.
Please synopsize the trouble.
        2) What carb have you had the best luck with? Here, we're talking
having run the carb for morethan a year with next-to-no probelms. This is
especially important if you switched from a troublesome design.

        We must all bear in mind that many "fatal" or diasasteous problems
are often only perceived as such because we don't have the knowledge or
experience to deal with them. Often, we don't have the time (like we gotta
get to work the next day!) to spend the hours needed to bird-dog a
difficult problem, so we throw the offending part in the trash and bolt
something else on.
        Patience, objectivity and a clear head comprise the Zen of the
wrench. This is the essence of Bill Adam's ancient art of Wren-Ching.

Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:54:55 -0400
Subject: UK: Anybody got a phone # for Superwinch?

I am going to do a bulk buy of these damned bearings for overdrives -
there's got to be a cheaper source than RN...

               ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:01:09 PST
Subject: Re: Discovery hire in UK
From: rhodesia@juno.com (Chris R Whitehead)

My family and I are going to be in the UK in June 1997, and were hoping
to rent a Discovery while we were there. Does anyone have any
suggestions or recommendations?

Cheers

Chris Whitehead

------------------------------

From: bb@olivetti.dk (Bent Bohlers)
Subject: RE: Anybody got a phone # for Superwinch?
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:34:09 +-100

Subject: 	UK: Anybody got a phone # for Superwinch?
I am going to do a bulk buy of these damned bearings for overdrives -
there's got to be a cheaper source than RN...

Why not SuperWinch in US ??
Have a look at:
http://www.superwinch.com/

Happy Rovering

Bent

_____________________________________

Bent Boehlers

Herlev, Denmark

e-mail: bb@olivetti.dk
URL: http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/3542

110" STW 12 seats, V8, 1983
 86" softtop, 2 litre, 1955

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 09:28:53 EST
From: "Bobeck, David R." <dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Subject: Re: UK: Anybody got a phone # for Superwinch?

I am going to do a bulk buy of these damned bearings for overdrives -
there's got to be a cheaper source than RN...

               ajr

they do have a website...and lots of other US distributors,
          (hell, i've seen their stuff at *TRAK AUTO*) but
          they would have to special order your
          part/whatever and it may turn out to cost
          more...did you try BP? I got a great deal from
          them on the OD so maybe they have parts too.

          Dave B.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:51:03 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: 1958 Land Rover

>Two weeks ago I bought a 1958 Ser I LWB.  It has 72K miles and a good frame.
>Many things to do, but the rebuild will start with the wheels, brakes, etc.

>d.  Do those flat head screws on the wheel drums really turn out clockwise?

Not on any Rover I have ever worked on! Regular screws, loosen counter
clockwise, tighten clockwise.
See ya!

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:52:28 -0400
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (East Coast Rover Co.)
Subject: Re: WARNING!! FOR SALE ITEM FROM ECR. DANGER!

>Be careful, I got kicked off the list because my test message got copied 3
>times.  No explanation or anything... and I wasn't even selling anything!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Flatland Rover Society
>D90 SW

        Please read the joke email. I only sent it once, the rest were
copies from someone else.

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:50:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UK: Anybody got a phone # for Superwinch?

Re: Supewinch US;

They don't even amit to knowing what an OD is - never mind selling parts
for the damned things.

BP has about the same prices as RN - too high for cheap bearings of a bad
design.

                              ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:15:00 -0800
From: Jon Haskell <kb9cml@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Dave KC7MM

Thanks for checking in...someone furnished your call to me when they 
responded to my inquiry. Shortly after checkins stop coming in, I will 
publish a list and then try and get a sked setup.

Understand the antenna situation..been there. The TS50 will work just 
fine in Ms. Daisy. I have one as well as W9RM in Chicago. I have just 
mounted the High Sierra HS1000 on the rear tire carrier of my Discovery. 
This is the variable height adjustment antenna for easy tuning on all the 
bands. Works good and would suggest it to you. I have also used Hustler 
systems and Hamstick antennas. Let me know how it turns out.

BTW, Peter zs1pjb, S. Africa, wants to meet us on 20 after he gets back 
from holiday later this month. He has an amp and some good antennas. Will 
keep you posted.

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:27:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Here we go again, LR models list...

	Since fourfold.ocunix.on.ca seems determined to stay dead (first
	we had a head crashed, followed by - parity errors, ide controller
	failure, floppy failure, vga card failure...  Into the tip it goes,
	replaced with a 586 something...), the model lr list has been
	moved off of fourfold and put onto off-road.com.  Live list only,
	no digest mode at this time.  Send me a note saying that you 
	would like to be on this list and I will make a easily applied
	control file to start the list up next week.  This list will
	be for LR toys, models, etc.  No 1:1 model discussions, that's what
	this list is for.

	Rgds,

	Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:07:07 -0500
From: Mike Bigg <mbigg@law.harvard.edu>

subscribe

___________________________________________________________________________
The present issue is one of comparative simplicity.  That is to say,
the facts of the case are intelligible to the least instructed layman,
and the only persons utterly at sea are those connected with the law. 

  AP Herbert
___________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Subject: Re: News ?
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 16:29:24 -0000
From: Simon Ward-Hastelow <simon.110.v8@dial.pipex.com>

--Decembers issue of Automotive Industries reveals that in 1998 the all 
new
--CB 40 will be released, known as the Heartland  The Disco will be 
redesigned
--and the RR facelifted.  In 2001 the RR will be redesigned.
--Regards  Bill Leacock  Limey in exile.

I say Old Chap latest info on CB40 front states thus;

some big chief from BMW has been widely pictured driving the beast aroung 
UK with no attempt to disguise the fact that its the new landrover other 
than it has 1993 plates on it - sources guess that it will be launched as 
early as spring 97 at the Geneva show and go on sale in UK by late summer 
early autumn (fall) - BMW want their money now not wait until 98 and then 
find the market has disappeared.

It will be named Highlander and be available in 5-door version with 
3-door model to follow within a year, engines will all be existing units 
from Rover and BMW cars 1.8 to 2.5 litre petrol and diesel options. 
Prices are likely to start at 14,000 quid for the 3 door up to 18-20,000 
for posh 5-door.

Re-launch of the Discovery comes in 98-99 and - wait for it - Defender to 
be REPLACED by 1999

just thought you might like to know

__________________________________

Simon Ward-Hastelow, Orpington, Kent, UK

"DOROTHY"  -  1985, 110, V8, CSW
__________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:36:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: News ?

On Fri, 3 Jan 1997, Simon Ward-Hastelow wrote:

> just thought you might like to know

	Also have heard rumour of a management buy-out of Rover Group from
	BMW.  Just the money losing car side & Longbridge.  Not Land Rover.
	BMW wants that bit.  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:38:32 +0100 (MET)
From: Ketil Kirkerud <ketilk@a.sol.no>

unsubscribe Land-Rover-Owner ketilk@a.sn.no

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:41:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: New Years Day Crime Report (longish)

On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Bobeck, David R. wrote:

> of Maryland, as well as our beloved Spenny, who's Rover is permantly banned
> from off-road travel (and on-road too, it seems). 

	Ohhh  do tell!

> I aired down, and some others already had. 

	From 80psi?  :-)

> some less difficult slopes) and then last to come out was Bill, whose 2.25
> diesel just couldn't get up the revs to make it up the now somewhat slippery
> slope. 

	Forget to air down?  ROFL  Shades of the DOwneast Rally...

> entire right side of the 109 was engulfed in mud and water. It was an "instant
> stuck", the kind that just reaches out and grabs you like a fly in one of
> those sticky traps. 

	Sounds more like your driving style...  :-)

	Rgds from the tundra...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:47:23 -0800
From: rogers@batnet.com (Jeffrey A. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Lockers / No Lockers 

Hello all. I have been very interested in the locker discussion taking
place and thank you for the information. I have one question though. If I
were shopping for an on-demand locker, like the ARB, Jac Mac or KAM, on
what criteria should I base my decision to purchase one brand over the
others? I would think that I should be looking for a reliable engagement
mechanism, added strength to differential and zero impact on ride/drive. Is
there anything else and what stats/info should I see to verify that one is
better than another?

Again, thanks!

Jeff Rogers
'95 D90

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:28:45 -0800
From: Greg Moore <gmoore@island.net>
Subject: Which carb is Best??

Jim Allen wrote:

> All gear-heads tend to carry a (vocal) prejudice against whatever
> part caused them the most trouble - even if they were the only one in the
> world to have a problem with it.

> Lets do a survey!

>         1) What carb have you personally had the most trouble?

Weber 34ICH. The 'trouble' was performance. Two different carbs, two different
engines. A definate reluctance to rev. I had the vapour lock problem others 
have mentioned and cured it with an electric transfer pump in the tank feeding a 
high volume Holley electric pump through paralleI filters to a pressure regulator 
at the carb and a bleed back line taking excess, warmed up fuel back to the tank 
to be cooled. All lines 3/8" i.d., mechanical pump bypassed. IMO it's a great 
carb for those with non roadworthy project trucks - runs beatifully if you don't 
take it out of the driveway :-0
 
>         2) What carb have you had the best luck with?

Rochester Monojet. A noticeable kick in the pants. Engine (relieved of its
Weber) pulls strongly till I run out of nerve. To be fair I have had icing
problems on damp days. The 'fix' involved fitting a NA style breather with
temperature controlled, vaccuum operated heat riser - the additional air flow
doesn't hurt either.

The engines in both cases were semi tired lumps that deserve(d) rebuilding. My
fuel guage isn't accurate enough to measure consumption but no difference is
perceived. The plugs in both cases showed normal colouration. I haven't had the 
pleasure of running the other carbs mentioned in your original post so don't have 
the experience of a solex equipped 'control' engine to provide a reference point.

Cheers Greg,
Vancouver Island, B.C.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:55:01 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: New Years Day Crime Report (longish)

>Forget to air down?  ROFL  Shades of the DOwneast Rally...
Air warn't the problem, it was the MUD.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:05:42 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Paint codes

Simon sez:

>I am still trying to find the correct colour code for Deep Bronze
>Green.  I noted recently on the digest that Herberts 0428 and ICI P030
>2651 were mentioned again, these just don't seem to be available in
>Australia - or at least I can't find them.  

The Series One Club claims that Herberts code SA4225 and 0428 are the 
correct colour, although they also say that "your paint factor will have to 
ring the technical department at Herberts (Dagenham) for the mix quantities". 

Can't you have a protected panel computer-analyzed and the paint matched 
that way?

Hope this helps
Peter Hirsch
Vienna, Austria
Series One 107in Station Wagon (in bits and pieces)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:05:44 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: 1958 Land Rover

Dennis - welcome to the wonderful world of old Land-Rovers! (Please use 
hyphen from now on, ours aren't run-of-the-mill Land Rovers).

>a. The 38 year old springs are not bowed or split, just rusty - is there any
>reason that they necessarily must be replaced just because they are old?

Try to de-rust them, maybe paint them and either get some graphite between 
the leaves or use a good grease and then wrap them up so the grease will not 
attract too much sand and grit, which ruins your springs. Some people 
regularly brush their springs with used gearbox oil. Used engine oil is 
probably not too good for this as it becomes acidic and may damage your springs.

>b.  The brake master cylinder is the single type (no redundant backup
>system) and is mounted under the floor.  There is ONE brake line to the rear
:(split into two lines with a T at the rear axle); there are two lines to the
>front, one to each wheel.  Can or should this be replaced with a more modern
>dual master cylinder?  Can anyone recommend a type/model? 

This was on this list a while ago:
=================
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:51:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Brown <DB@CHO004.CHO.GE.COM>
Subject: Them's the brakes

All,

    Looking for the collective wisdom on brake options for my Series II 88.  
When I first got it, I replaced every line and junction in the system; found 
the best set of used master and slave cylinders and honed them properly; 
replaced all seals; and filled the system with silicone brake fluid.  I did 
all of this because single brake systems worry me (I burst a seal on my 1965 
Jeep pickup years ago and destroyed a Chevette...)  I have been happy with 
the results: It has worked flawlessly the last five years.

    Now that I have so much go-power (thanks to Turner engineering and an 
overdrive) I'm getting concerned about stop-power again.  I have gathered 
the obvious parts to convert over to a dual braking system:
    -- dual master with vacuum unit and pedal assembly
    -- new brake light switch for pedal (current one is hydraulic)
    -- clutch master with integral reservoir (current uses dual can)
    -- new master lines, plus 3 way junction (current is 4-way + switch)

    Obviously I'll have to do some fender cutting to fit this in, but it 
should be a fairly straightforward swap.  Has anyone done this part of it 
and have any advice about anything I'm missing or am not considering? 

    I believe the brake master is a different bore to compensate for the 
vacuum assist; does it also require different bore wheel cylinders, or will 
the existing ones (stock for 1960 88) work fine?
<snip>
    Duncan, desperately seeking friction
=================
Looks like major changes to me. You may want to get some advice from Duncan.

>d.  Do those flat head screws on the wheel drums really turn out clockwise?

Definitely counterclockwise, unless you are on the southern hemisphere 
(ignore this, tired old thread). If they won't budge, try penetrating oil 
and an impact screwdriver.

>Disassembly starts this weekend, but first I have to go to --- Hardware to get 
>an impact wrench.

Good luck, and have fun! Keep us posted!
Peter Hirsch
Vienna, Austria
Series One 107in Station Wagon (in bits and pieces)

------------------------------

From: "Rick Larson" <rlarson@vineyard.mti.sgi.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:15:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Lockers / No Lockers

On Jan 3,  9:47am, Jeffrey A. Rogers wrote:
> Subject: Re: Lockers / No Lockers
> Is
> there anything else and what stats/info should I see to verify that one is
> better than another?

Installation, installation, installation.

ARB is far and away the most popular LR solution in the US.  Makes finding
someone familiar with it's installation much easier.  It is a fairly complex
installation.  The diffs are disassembled and rebuilt with the ARB carrier.
The locker actuator mechanism is built into the carrier.
A hole is drilled in the diff casings for an airline to control the actuator.
 The compressor is installed somewhere.  Three switches are wired for control
of the compressor.  Airlines are run to the diffs.  Options are endless.  One
Usually adds a chuck to allow tire inflation.  Engine driven compressors and
airtanks allow use of airtools.  Anyway, many (most) of the installations I'm
aware of required some significant debugging to obtain reliable operation.
Once things are working they seem very reliable.

KAM is a bit of an unknown quantity to me.  I do know installation requires
some significant work on the diff/axle casing.  A 34mm hole must be
cut in the case and a platform welded to the axle case for the actuator
mechanism.   It is also air pressure driven.  A compressor  must
be installed.   The complexity of installation, the exposed
mechanism, and the lack of US support relative to ARB seem to be the
down sides to the KAM product.

Jac Mac is again a bit of an unknown quantity to me.  My understanding
is that one receives a new third member set up to ones requirements.
The memeber is bolted in.  The is some machining of the spindles required
if one opts for oversize axles.   In addition to that the engine vacuum must
be tapped and lines run to the diff.  Mechanical swithes in the vacuum line
control the actuator.   Theoretically it should be the easiest of the
3 systems to install.   My initial research suggests it is by far
the most expensive of the three lockers, even after labor is factored
in.

>From everything I've heard so far, all three significantly strengthen
the carrier.  The KAM and Jac Mac setups allow for installation of
stronger gears and oversize axles.  The downside to this is that all
one is really doing is moving the weak link in the drivetrain.   Jim
Allen's recent response to my question on stock, vs ARB, vs Mac strength
addressed that issue well.   I'd be very interested in a comparison
of reliablility of the actuator mechanisms.  My personal experience
was ARB is mixed.  The units I had installed had bad internal seals
that gave within a couple months.  ARB did cover the fix under warranty
without question.  Since then they have been very reliable.

I'm trying to do the cost/benifit analysis now to decide if
the upgrade from ARB to Jac Mac's stronger gears and
axles is worth the effort/$$ to me.

-Rick

> Again, thanks!
> Jeff Rogers
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> '95 D90
>-- End of excerpt from Jeffrey A. Rogers

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:31:10 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Lockers / No Lockers

I have one question though. If I
>were shopping for an on-demand locker, like the ARB, Jac Mac or KAM, on
>what criteria should I base my decision to purchase one brand over the
>there anything else and what stats/info should I see to verify that one is
>better than another?

Jeff,

        For what it's worth, I think all the on-demand units you mentioned
are good. The items that concern you will essentially be dictated by price.
AS I mentioned, the ARB is approximately 100% stronger than the original
two-pinion diff, the Jac-Mac hypoid diff just about doubles that. The Kam
is fairly unknown to me but I would venture a guess it's somewhere
in-between the two. Though I can't quote prices, I think the cost will
follow the strength issue pretty closely.
        Other considerations are ease of installation. The ARB requires a
compresser and airlines to be installed in addition to the modifications to
the diff. The compressor, however, becomes an asset in terms of airing up
tires etc. The KAM is also air-actuated (somebody correct me please if not
- I'm working from memory here) and the Jac Mac comes as a complete
assembly that you exchange with your old diff and you only need to run a
vacuum line.

Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:49:16 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Lockers / No Lockers

Jim Allen wrote:
> snip
> The Kam is fairly unknown to me snip

That raises another important criterion: a knowledge base in the area of operations.
Since no one (?) is really familiar with the KAM in North America I'd stay 
clear of it regardless of its mechanical merits (yes I opted for the ARB).
I'm planning on  both break in and break down troubles. Both need input from 
knowledgeable people to get through. If you need service on a KAM in the 
US/Canada who's going to do it?  If someone as knowledgeable as Jim says the
KAM is a relative unknown that spells trouble to me.

cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

From: "Mark Gehlhausen" <Gehl@sphinx.nwscc.sea06.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:55:15 -500
Subject: More 109 Food For Thought

Land-Rover Owners,
I crawled all over this candidate 109 last weekend.  A few questions 
before I bid on the beast.  It is first offered to another person, so 
I need to wait a bit.  A few things bother me about the truck.  The 
frame appeared sound, except the rear section.  Rust perforation is 
present in the center rear boxed section and in the bottom of the
offside rail about 6 inches forward of the rear cross joint.  The rest
of the frame is sound, I carefully checked all side extensions.  There
is one frame shunt, on the low hanging lateral section near the 
driveshaft brake drum.  It must have taken a big rock at one time, the
corner back about 1".  The frame is quite greasy, properly preserved 
no doubt.  There are a few areas of light bondo skim I noted on the 
rear slab sides behing rear wheel.  When changing a flat tire, one of 
the wheel studs melted in my hands, appears to have rusted through?
The heater, most appropriate now.  This has a boxy looking affair 
mounted to right center of bulkhead just beneath dash boxed area.  
Two pipes go up and at least one offside door to manually play with.
Not the Smiths type of doors, not a toroid style core.  No ID plate.  The 
unit provides good air flow and heat.  OK, how many shifter levers 
should this thing have anyway???  I counted four, each with a 
different color knob.  This thing has a front mounted winch, I guess 
one of the levers controls a forward PTO?  This truck is half '65 88 
and half '67 109 pickup.  BTW, the aluminum cab top is dinged up, 
somebody's kid must have played it for a drum?  Gaskets around the 
front air vents are sloppy and loose.  The SOB diesel did not mess 
with the frame or inner fenders on installation.  No rear hoops or 
canvas, but it does have the galvanized plug-ins and side welded 
holddown clips.  After climbing all over this thing, I now understand 
how TeriAnn can fit in all the assorted tanks.  There must be a half 
dozen tool boxes.  Is the center box a built in head?  I had a very 
afternoon thanks to your many past tips on what to look for!  It 
will be a few weeks before I know if it is available to me for $3kUS.  
Lastly, the fuel fill is not right.  I am told it should have a metal 
liftup extension.  Please comment on this, if it should be there, if 
it is useful to seek, where I would find one?  Can it be bolted on or 
is it a bad sign that something else is messed with?  The fuel cap
seemed loose enough to fall off underway.  The commission number
plate had all silkscreen worn off, but the ID consisted of all 
numerals.  Should there be an be an alpha code prefix? 

If this letter is too long or not appropriate for this list, please 
advise and I will discontinue.  Feel free to respond directly.
Mark      
             

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:08:55 -0400
Subject: Re: More 109 Food For Thought

2 halves of different trucks, with a bogus engine, for $3K?

Run away - run far away. Seriously.

For that kind of cash you can afford to fly somewhere and buy something
runnable.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:30:39 -0500
From: Rob MacCormick <Rob_MacCormick@Harvard.Edu>
Subject: electronics

I'm starting to do some long slow research into fixing up the wiring in our
IIa dormobile....Anybody who's seen the tangles under the hood is probably
thinking "its about time!" I'm interested in resurrecting the previously
installed dual battery system and am in search of appropriate sources of
electrical components such as isolators, switches, inverters, etc. etc. I've
got a Wrangler power products catalog and a marine products (EB white or
Bliss (I forget)) catalog....I recall somewhere seeing a rescue vehicle
(fire trucks, ambulances etc.) equipment catalog somewhere...Can anybody
recommend any other potential sources of materials/parts/info.? Oh yeah I've
seen a couple of wiring diagrams on the web as well....Rob M Concord, MA USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 11:30:03 -0800
From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Subject: Re: More 109 Food For Thought

Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
> snip
> The heater, most appropriate now.  This has a boxy looking affair
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Not the Smiths type of doors, not a toroid style core.  No ID plate.  The
> unit provides good air flow and heat. 

>From your description it sounds like a Kodiak.

> OK, how many shifter levers
> should this thing have anyway???  I counted four, each with a
> different color knob.  This thing has a front mounted winch, I guess
> one of the levers controls a forward PTO?  

You'd see the PTO connection to the winch.  Or the electric cables depending
on the type.
Are you sure the knobs are all different colors.
4 would most likely be gearshift (black), high/low (red), 4wd (yellow) and?
overdrive (black).  Is there an overdrive installed at the rear of the transfer
case?

> This truck is half '65 88
> and half '67 109 pickup.  

WHAT?  How so?  This sounds like something to avoid to me.  I'd not buy it except
for a few hundred if it were usable for major parts.  Even then with the mercedes
(it is a mercedes isn't it?) engine I'd wonder. 

> BTW, the aluminum cab top is dinged up,
> somebody's kid must have played it for a drum?  Gaskets around the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> is it a bad sign that something else is messed with?  The fuel cap
> seemed loose enough to fall off underway.  

Not necessarily a bad sign; the extension tube can be worked out of the 
filler tube and lost. 

> The commission number
> plate had all silkscreen worn off, but the ID consisted of all
> numerals.  Should there be an be an alpha code prefix?

As I recall yes.  This makes me suspicious given your description of a 
mixed body (? frame?).
> If this letter is too long or not appropriate for this list, please
> advise and I will discontinue.  Feel free to respond directly.
> Mark
> with the frame or inner fenders on installation.  No rear hoops or
> canvas, but it does have the galvanized plug-ins and side welded

My advice is DON'T.  You're probably lucky someone else is in front of
you before you get too tempted.
Look for a better buy somewhere else.  They're around for that price.

good luck

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: 03 Jan 97 14:31:41 EST
From: Jos Prinsen <100735.2330@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Seatbelts

For safe driving in a softtop 4x4 one should install a 
strong roll over bar, that can carry the weight of the car. 
It's also a great mountingpoint for a three-point seatbelt.  
Without a bar you could get squashed between your 
seat and a hard place because the seatbelt will hold you
firmly in place in a roll over situation. 
In my SIIa 88" i've made a bar that stands just behind the 
front softtop support with the vertical stands mounted
on the triangular edges of the cargo-wall and leaning inward
a bit so it doesn't touch the softtop. A diagonally placed 
pipe mounted on each rear body side gives it a 3-dimensonal
mounting. It's made of heavy iron pipe so you don't need all
that soft foam padding and tape to make it look good ;-)

Best wishes and a safe 4x4 1997 4 all
Jos Prinsen

LR SIIa 88" bj'71
MB 404.1 S  bj'65

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:38:50 -0400
Subject: Re: electronics

You go right by a supplier on the way home up 93 - there's a marine supply
right in front of Woburn Foreign Motors in Woburn, just across 128 from the
Woburn Mall exit.

As far as the double-batery bit, if the original switch is still there (and
if I remember correctly it is) then a simple test or two should be able to
determine if it's OK.

Re: Wiring diagram for the silly thing:

Tom Rowe had it - email him and he's sure to be able to help.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:44:46 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: More 109 Food For Thought

I've had a page www setup on my ISP for sometime that some may want to
see when shopping for a Rover.  I have just added a link from my main
page.  It was for a Rover-less friend of mine but feel free to use.

http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm/4sale.htm

Also I invite comments about one of my hidden links;

http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm/DropZone.htm

cheers,
-- 
                                    ____________
                                    Mike Johnson
                                74 SIII 88 (Chester)
                                73 SIII 88 (Jezebel)
                           http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm
                           _____________________________

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:34:00 +0000
From: Steve_Reddock <steve@lightweight.demon.co.uk>
Subject: WARNING!! DANGER ECT ITEM FOR SALE. DANGER!

From: Michael Carradine <cs@crl.com>
Subject: Re[2]: WARNING!! FOR SALE ITEM FROM ECR. DANGER!

At 07:34 PM 1/2/97 +0000, Steve_Reddock <steve@lightweight.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:
:Mike, sorry about that.
:The three extra postings of you chassis for sale posting were forgeries
:by me.
:I was really funny at the time, honest!
:You will never live down the first instance of the never ending chassis
:for sale posting!
:Keep smiling, Steve

 Are you the same clown that intermittendly has been double posting other
 messages to the LRO list in the past month??  Are you also responsible
 for redundant cross-postings to the LRO/RRO/and Mendo Land Rover lists???
 We wasted quite some time investigating fault in our PC systems and the
 mail servers!!

I would never maliciously forge a mail item.  I have never forged any
mail to this list in the past.  I have cross posted nothing, except for
one or two postings from myself which deserved cross posting.  I have
not resent other peoples posting again to confuse people.

I am not responsible for you burning the toast this morning...

This posting was a light hearted joke about the last time Mike tried to
sell a chassis when someone reposted the ad. 50 times accidentally.  You
might notice I confessed 5 minutes later to avoid any problems.  If you
looked at the headers you will also note that I left in several
pointers to my correct ID.

If anybody spent anytime investigating investigating this without
spotting that it was a very obvious forgery should brush up on their 
skills.

If you suspect mail problems look at the headers to see where it came
from before you rip your system apart!

Lighten up!

 Funny you say?  Funny is having you OFF this list!

At least they have a sense of humour on the UK list.

                             Now I'm smiling :)

Not a terminal sense of humour failure then!

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:54:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: dual battery gif?

	Someone asked?  On Tom's site too I believe...

	http://204.119.251.4/LR_FAQ/Series/DualBat.gif

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 23:34:27 -0800
From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Subject: Slow draining of battery SOLVED??

I have just had a fault which may be of interest to others - as I think
I have solved it!

For several months my 109 has had a flat battery if left unstarted for
over a week - battery copndition is fine, generator works fine, and if
started after one or two days, even in sub-zero temperatures, everything
fine.

Last week I noticed that my oil pressure meter was showing very low, and
I thought I had a bad earth to the meter (seen a similar problem
before), but earth ok. Further inspection revealed that meter, with
engine stopped, showed full scale deflection, and went down to it's
metered level when engine running. I checked all wiring and eventually
found that the oil pressure sensor was faulty.

As this circuit works by taking positive 12 volts to the meter, and from
here to earth via a potentiomter in the pressure sensor, it follows that
a faulty sensor which was short circuit when engine stopped, could draw
a small current which if unnoticed would flat the battery after a week
or so. As I rarely check the oil pressure with the engine stopped, i had
not noticed this fault.

I have now rewired this circuit to be dependent on the ignition switch
being ON, so that if the new sensor fails in a similar way, it will not
draw current when the vehicle is garaged.

This sensor and meter are unoriginal parts, but seem to work in the same
way as the smiths originals on my 88.

As yet, not battery drainage, and an ammeter test of the plus side of
the battery with the engine stopped shows NO current, not even
milliamperes!

This fault has haunted me for months - I hope this was the real reason
for it!
-- 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)		    +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)		    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data		    +45 76 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)		    +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)		    +45 40 50 22 66
mobile NMT			    +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail			     channel6@post2.tele.dk
HoTMaiL (www.e-mail)	channel6denmark@hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:32:34 -0500
From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice)
Subject: Newsletters

OK, gang, here's the deal.  The printer ran off 50 too many of The Gearbox, 
which was mailed out in mid-December to club members.  (And if you didn't 
get yours, let me know...an inordinate number were returned or delivered in 
shreds.)  I'm willing to bet the 55 cents postage that after you read it, 
you'll want to join ROAV and pony up the $15 annual dues - less than the 
cost of four Bass ales at the neighborhood pub.  So if you want a copy, 
e-mail me direct.  Cheers

      *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----*
      |               A. P. (Sandy) Grice                   |
      |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.     |
      |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
      |  E-mail: rover@pinn.net  Phone: 757-622-7054 (Day)  |
      |    757-423-4898 (Evenings)    FAX: 757-622-7056     |
      |                                                     |
      *---1972 Series III 88"------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

From: wleacock@pipeline.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:42:31 -0500

Dennis Renken writes :-   

I have a few questions for anyone who can help:  

>a. The 38 year old springs are not bowed or split, just rusty - is there any
reason that they necessarily must be replaced just because they are old?

 Just take them apart, hammer them to flake off the rust and reassemble with
a little grease between the leaves. 
If necessary it is relatively easy to beat a little more curvature into the
leaves.

> b.  The brake master cylinder is the single type (no redundant backup
system) and is mounted under the floor.  There is ONE brake line to the rear
(split into two lines with a T at the rear axle); there are two lines to the
front, one to each wheel.  Can or should this be replaced with a more modern
dual master cylinder?  Can anyone recommend a type/model? 

 Many in the UK use the pendant type pedal arrangement from the ser 2/ 2a,
however if you are a purist then the original system is required, try
Craddock's in the UK.  The later type dual system will not fit under the
bonnett.
  
>d.  Do those flat head screws on the wheel drums really turn out clockwise? 

 NO, they turn out ANTI clockwise, even in the southern hemisphere.

                                     Regards  Bill Leacock   Limey in exile

------------------------------

From: ASFCO@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:31:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Splitcharge Diagram

splitcharge wiring diagram can be found at 

http://www.cdr.wisc.edu/staff/trowe/splitcharge/html

Rgds
Steve Bradke     72 Series lll 88 ( for sale )
                        68 Series lla 88 
                        96 Discovery SE-7 

------------------------------

From: Rod Steele <rsteele@intellinet.com>
Subject: Photo Archive Progress
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:49:06 -0500

Thank you Steve and Rick.  Both the photos and the letters were =
appreciated.  The photos are in the post.

To you all:   ALL THE BEST FOR 1997.

The archive is coming along, albeit slowly during the recent festive =
period.  I have found a suitable web site and am starting the =
construction with help, BUT

I need contributions PLEASE.  Anything welcome,  ALL types of LR, RR, =
Disco and Def, and especially welcome are any and all variations of the =
above and the attachments that come with them, no matter how bizzare.

Thanks to all in anticipation,

Regards Rod.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:46:44 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: Splitcharge Diagram

Steve I think you mean http://www.cdr.wisc.edu/staff/trowe/splitcharge.html
instead of http://www.cdr.wisc.edu/staff/trowe/splitcharge/html

Mike "the WWW QC" Johnson

Mike Johnson N7WBO
http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:05:02 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: More 109 Food For Thought

At  1:55 PM 1/3/97 -0500, Mark Gehlhausen wrote:
;

First. A dumb question.  What part of the car is from an 88?  If its a car
that is cut and half and joined, pass it up.  If its just the front clip
and doors (ie: body parts that bolt on, no problem.

There is a serial number stamped on the right side of the frame near one of
the front sping hangers.  That number should match the serial number on the
inside number plate.

I think the car seems overpriced for what it is.  For about that much you
might be able to pick up a solid condition ex-MOD 109  LHD in the UK.  You
can probably get one over for about US $1000

> OK, how many shifter levers
>should this thing have anyway???  I counted four, each with a
>different color knob.
;
The shift lever that looks like one is one.  The one to the right of it
pushes down and puts the car into FWD high range.  The lever to the right
of it shifts the transfer case from hi range to low range.  You also shift
it to take the transfer case out of high range FWD.

A lever coming out of the front of the seat box with a push button on it is
the rear driveshaft brake lever. Some are close to the floor, some stick up
high.  If you have a second lever coming out of the front of the seat box
it will be an overdrive shift lever.

>  Gaskets around the
>front air vents are sloppy and loose.

These gaskets are readilly available

>with the frame or inner fenders on installation.  No rear hoops or
>canvas, but it does have the galvanized plug-ins and side welded
>holddown clips.
;
These are satndard on two door 109s.  You would need additional HW for a
canvas top.

>  After climbing all over this thing, I now understand
>how TeriAnn can fit in all the assorted tanks.  There must be a half
>dozen tool boxes.  Is the center box a built in head?
;
In stock form, there are the two rear tool boxes, and the toolbox under the
front left seat.  There is an optional shallow center box that sits under
the middle seat.  It lifts out to give you access to the top center of the
transfer case and the rear drive shaft brake.  As far as I know nor a whole
lot of the series cars ended up with this center box.  On the top of the
rear benches in front of the rear wheels may be one or two rounded
depressions for holding spare tyres.  If there are no tyre mounts, there
will be a flat plate rivited over the holes for the mounts.  Anyother boxes
are custom.

>Lastly, the fuel fill is not right.  I am told it should have a metal
>liftup extension.  Please comment on this, if it should be there, if
>it is useful to seek, where I would find one?

I think you are talking about a lift out tube with a screen that sits
inside the  the filler neck.  This screens out large particals from the
petrol tank.  When its extended it acts as a filler for a gerry can  These
just sit inside and are not bolted in.  The screen keeps you from using the
auto fill feature on gas pumps.  I believe that these are no longer
available new.  They are only useful if you are filling from a gerry can.
They can be picked up used.

>  The fuel cap
>seemed loose enough to fall off underway.

Check to see if the rubber gasket is there.  If not they are available new.
If the gasket is there, you use a pair of pliers to bend the flanges
tighter on the cap.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 21:55:16 -0800
From: Jon Haskell <kb9cml@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Land Rover HF Net

Here is the list of Rover owners that have amateur radio licenses compiled to date. 
Some of the information is missing, so If you want it filled in, send me a note. Please
check for typo's.

Peter Burgers	ZS1PJB	pburgers@cpls.wcape.gov.za		HF	110
Kevin Kelly	KF6BEV	kkelly6788@aol.com			Tech	?
Albert Ruston	   ?	arustom@interaccess.com			Tech	?
David Place	VE4PN	dplace@mb.sympatico.ca			HF	Series
John Purnell	N9EJC	JEPurnell@aol.com			HF	?
Steve Bradke	WA2GMC	ASFCO@aol.com				HF	Series
Alan Richer	N1TWY	Alan_Richr/cam/lotus@crd.lotus.com	Tech	?
Rich Ranger	WB9SFG	MOKE67@aol.com				HF	?
Mike Johnson	N7WBO	johnsonm@borg.com			Tech	?
Garret Scott	KB4QGN	?					Tech	?
John Dillingham	KF4NAS	?					Tech	?
Dale Avery	KC7MM	davery@on-ramp.ior.com			HF	?
Keith Morehouse	W9RM	blckhole@ripco.com			HF	Disco
Bent Bohlers	OZ4GE	bb@olivetti.dk				No HF	?
Guy McCullough	WA4OJK	guy@citystages.ord			Tech	?
Scott Schram	KN4L	scott@ruthie.com			HF	Disco
Mike Catlin	KF6GXY	mjcatlin@whell.dcn.davis.ca.us		Tech	?
Jon Haskell	KB9CML	kb9cml@worldnet.att.net			HF	Disco
Aaron Haskell	N9VFW	kb9cml@worldnet.att.net			Tech	D90SW
	
Not sure of how we can have a net with everyone given the various distances and frequency
limitations of the Technician licenses. 75 meters in the evening would catch a lot of the 
group located in eastern and the middle, and mid-west part of the country. Peter in South Africa 
wants to arrange a schedule on 20 meters after he returns from holiday. I am open to frequency suggestions.

Jon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 22:39:44 -0800
From: Norman Neiderer <neiderer@mars.ark.com>
Subject: Warn Winch Type

Hi Ron,
I have a 1993 Warn catalog but unfortunately it doesn't list the model
of winch that you have.The catalog does provide the following address
and phone numbers which may help:

Warn Industries, Inc.
13270 S.E. Pheasant Court
Milwaukie, Oregon 97222, U.S.A.

Customer Service Line..1-800-543-9276
Main Line..............1-503-786-4462
Fax Machine............1-503-654-3438
International Fax......1-503-786-4426

Regards,

Norm

1969 NADA 109 Doormobile
-- 
Norman Neiderer
1595 Comox Avenue
Comox B.C., V9M 2M6, Canada
Tel/Fax: (604)339-2130

------------------------------

From: kma367@gsilink.com
Date:          Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:59:34 +0000
Subject:       valves

I recently got .010 as the clearances in adjusting the valves of a 
2.25 SIII petrol.  Hot or cold.  So I assume the clearances are 
the same inlet and exhaust??

Ozzie Hernaez
kma367@gsilink.com
1985 SIII 88 2.25 petrol station wagon
1981 SIII 88 2.25 petrol station wagon

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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