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From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:12:57 -0500
Subject: New Years Off-Road----Washington DC.

Is there anyone out there interested in hitting the bowie course new years
day?

Spenny
1969 SWB - The Wayback Machine
Arlington, VA
Land Rover the 4x4 of choice for the information superhighway

------------------------------

From: Spenny@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:13:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

Eric Libels...

1)  - 
10)

11) Naviguesser was *getting in touch with* his creator after going down
sphincter hill in 3rd low in a V8... :-)

and as for the DQ... dont forget treating several of the course boundry
markers like "gates on a giant slalom" (your words i believe...) :-)

Spenny
1969 SWB - The Wayback Machine
Arlington, VA
Land Rover the 4x4 of choice for the information superhighway

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:30:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Tig welding

Take it! Yes, yes, yes!

A compressed-gas cylinder can be had - it's worth it.

                    ajr

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:46:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Spenny@aol.com wrote:

>Eric Libels...

Its not libel if its true....

>11) Naviguesser was *getting in touch with* his creator after going down
>sphincter hill in 3rd low in a V8... :-)

Bah! I know exactly what it takes to roll a Rover, we weren't even close! ;)

>and as for the DQ... dont forget treating several of the course boundry
>markers like "gates on a giant slalom" (your words i believe...) :-)

I'm sorry Senator, I have no clear recollection of those events.  BTW, a four 
wheel drift is a great tool to get around those turns that would otherwise need 
a shunt :)

_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 8:48:37 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Deep thoughts...

Is it true that in Land Rover folklore that one must elevate the front of 
a 109 when bleeding the brake system? I'm having difficulty getting all 
the air out of the lines and wonder if this is the magic bullet.
On the deep thoughts subject...is it my imagination, or have a lot of 
coil sprung folks wound up on this list...after the "Great Divide" . I 
see several questions and signatures with RR, D90, and Disco in them. 
Interesting. 
Don't misunderstand and think for a minute that I don't want them on this 
list. Just that it's wierd  that human nature is such that people cry 
long and loud that they want something "just for them" and find 
afterwords that it's not what they wanted after all.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 SW Diesel:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"
	

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 14:12:00 PST

As the owner of an old and work weary 110 I find I have more in common with 
the owners of series vehicles, they're the only ones who wave when you pass 
them.

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT
 ----------

On the deep thoughts subject...is it my imagination, or have a lot of
coil sprung folks wound up on this list...after the "Great Divide" . I
see several questions and signatures with RR, D90, and Disco in them.
Interesting.
Don't misunderstand and think for a minute that I don't want them on this
list. Just that it's weird  that human nature is such that people cry
long and loud that they want something "just for them" and find
afterwards that it's not what they wanted after all.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 SW Diesel:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:20:38 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: Oil Filter for D90

>If the V-8 as fitted to the D90 uses the same oil filter as the filter used
>on my 1991 Range Rover 3.9 V-8, you can use a Fram HP-1.  It costs about
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
>V-8, then I can't help you.
>C. Marin Faure
>        author, Flying A Floatplane
Mr. Marin,
        Thanks for the information.  I was not aware of the anti-drain
valve on the HP-1 filter.  Many people have recommended the Fram PH8A.  Is
a  case of the HP-1 being best but the PH8A being OK in a pinch?  What does
the anti-drain valve keep from draining?  The oil pump?  I've been reading
where allowing the oil pump to drain is a major no-no.  I must say that
I've been changing oil in cars for years and this is the first caution I've
heard of this being a whoopsie.  Did I miss somthing?  I always drain the
sump first, fill it with fresh oil and then add oil to the new filter,
about 2/3 full, then change the filter.

Steve Paustian
D90 SW

------------------------------

From: bb@olivetti.dk (Bent Bohlers)
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:24:21 +-100

Adams, Bill[SMTP:badams@usia.gov] wrote:
<cut>
>On the deep thoughts subject...is it my imagination, or have a lot of 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>long and loud that they want something "just for them" and find 
>afterwords that it's not what they wanted after all.

This was one for me I guess?:-)

But I feel more like a series owner than owner of a plusmo( oh no, not that again).
I have NO interests in fuelinjection, automatic boxes, electric windows and doorlocks.
Therefore I follow this list, and the UK list, but not the cso.

By the way, here in Denmark less than 1% og the RR and Disco drivers wave. The 
series owners and 90/110 do.

Happy Rovering

Bent

________________________________

Bent Boehlers

Herlev, Denmark

e-mail: bb@olivetti.dk
URL: http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/3542

110" STW 12 seats, V8, 1983
 86" softtop, 2 litre, 1955

begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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end

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:40:32 -0300
From: rover1@sky.net (Steve Paustian)
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...

>On the deep thoughts subject...is it my imagination, or have a lot of
>coil sprung folks wound up on this list...after the "Great Divide" . I
>see several questions and signatures with RR, D90, and Disco in them.
>Interesting.
Bill,
        Sorry I can't help you on the 109 brake bleeding question, except
to say that I've also heard of the elevation trick being done.
        As to the coilers invasion of the leaf sprung domain, I will say
that I have been a series owner for years and still love them, but have
finally reached the point in life where I can have the best of both worlds,
so to speak.  I was not on the list when the split occured, but after
reading the coilers digest for awhile I can see where the line of
demarkation needed to be drawn.  I think the difference between those of us
on this side (or both sides) of the list and those strickly on the other
side is mostly a matter of where and when one first was infected with the
LR virus. I got my first Series III in '78 and have pretty much had a Rover
of some sort ever since.  Total of seven to date.  Many of the coilers have
just recently joined the fray after many years of "normal" vehicle
ownership.  I say welcome!!!  Jump right in, the water is deep and oily.
The more the merrier, and it takes all kinds to keep the head office on
their toes.

Steve Paustian
D90 SW

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:33:10 -0500
From: Mike Johnson <johnsonm@borg.com>
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...

>Bent
>                    Name: WINMAIL.DAT
>     Part 1.2       Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream)
>                Encoding: x-uuencode
Standard unix box junk....

By the way Bent.  Do you want these back?  I have a whole collection of
these WINMAIL.DAT files.  I might package them up in one big tar (zip)
and e-mail 'em back to ya.  :)
Cheers

P.S.
When I screw things up I just send nothing at all.
-- 
                                  ____________
                                  Mike Johnson
                              74 SIII 88 (Chester)
                              73 SIII 88 (Jezebel)
                          http://www.borg.com/~johnsonm
                         _______________________________

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:49:09 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...

At  2:12 PM 12/19/96 -0800, Davies, Scott wrote:
;
>As the owner of an old and work weary 110 I find I have more in common with
>the owners of series vehicles, they're the only ones who wave when you pass
>them.
>Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT

;
Thats because the heritage of your Defender is plain to see.  It inherited
a full measure of genes from both parents and looks a lot like Mom & Pop
series Land Rovers.  On the other hand I can't help but wonder, when I look
at a Discovery of the milk man was a Mitsibishi SUV.

Being a charter member of the series chalvanistic fringe, I think Defenders
belong on both lists, the RRO for the coiler specific postings and the leaf
spring list for everthing else.

So would you trade your 2.5D powerplant for a TDi?  Every once and a while
I toy with the idea of replacing my 2.25 petrol engine with a 2.5L turbo
disel.

I have heard that the TDi engine has a built in pump on the front that can
cause fit problems in a Series car.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:49:26 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...

At  4:24 PM 12/19/96 +0000, Bent Bohlers wrote:

>By the way, here in Denmark less than 1% og the RR and Disco drivers wave. The
>series owners and 90/110 do.
;
Sounds like the percentage is higher in Denmark than the US of Disco and RR
drivers waving.  I think the only Disco & RR wavers in the US are on the
mail lists.  It seems about 10% or the Defender owners in the US wave, and
I twice passed a series owner who didn't wave.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:49:03 -0800
From: twakeman@scruznet.com (TeriAnn Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...

At  8:48 AM 12/19/96 -0500, Adams, Bill wrote:

>Is it true that in Land Rover folklore that one must elevate the front of
>a 109 when bleeding the brake system? I'm having difficulty getting all
>the air out of the lines and wonder if this is the magic bullet.
;
I used to have all kinds of problems bleeding my 109's system too, esp the
clutch system.  Parking uphill didn't help for me (I think its to get the
air out of the master cycinder.

What worked for me was to switch over to pressure bleeding.  You pressurize
the resevor to about 10 to 15 pounds then go around to each bleed nipple &
open it long enough for all the air to rush out.  This worked very well for
me.

I used E-Z-Bleed.  Its cheezy & cheap but it works as long as you are
careful to keep the pressure low.  Snap-on has the best I know of buts it's
pricy.

When I switched to a '84 109 dual system, my hydrolics litterly bled
themselves.  I cracked the nipples to let gravity fill the lines before
bleeding.  Just for the fun of it, I checked my brakes to see how far I had
to go and the pedal was near the top.  Two years later and I still have not
got around to bleeding the system for the first time.

>On the deep thoughts subject...is it my imagination, or have a lot of
>coil sprung folks wound up on this list...after the "Great Divide" . I
>see several questions and signatures with RR, D90, and Disco in them.
>Interesting.

<Risking additional tar & feathering>
I too couldn't help but notice a very high percentage of the postings on
the leaf spring mail list are coiler specific.  I also noticed a lot of
coiler specific postings cross posted to the leaf spring list as if a
series II owner would even know what a EC whatever is.

Its bad enough that these plusmobiles can out perform leaf sprung cars off
road, but they do it in air conditioned comfort cushoned from the feel of
the rocks.  Now they are sqeezing out the leaf spring postings on our own
list

Even though the Range Rovers and Discoverys can outperform the series cars
and they have the right name on the badge, I still think they have a case
of chrisma envy. Something the Defender owners, being direct decendents of
the series cars with jillions of interchangable parts inherited in full.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:53:49 -0800
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Shallow thoughts...(was: Deep thoughts)

>ownership.  I say welcome!!!  Jump right in, the water is deep and oily.

I've noticed that the water leaking into my 109 is fresh and clean, no doubt 
due to the rainwater filtering its way through the roof. Obviously intended 
for expeditions that might otherwise run short of clean drinking water. The 
oil leaks are all underneath, presumably to control malarial insects.

Is it true that espresso was discovered by a LandRover owner with a bag of 
coffee beans on the roof?

(Darn, the half and half has clotted in the radiator. I should never have 
tried the 4psi radiator cap. Is that why the sudden interest in new radiators?)

JohnO

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:07:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...

On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov> wrote:
>Is it true that in Land Rover folklore that one must elevate the front of 
>a 109 when bleeding the brake system? I'm having difficulty getting all 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>a 109 when bleeding the brake system? I'm having difficulty getting all 
>the air out of the lines and wonder if this is the magic bullet.

Its true that LR folklore has tales of people pulling "The Gods Must be Crazy" 
stunts in order to get "air" out of the brake lines. The double wheel cylinder 
design of the 109" front brakes does leave a little to be desired (OK, a lot).  
Its been my experience that the problem is not air in the lines, but proper 
adjustment of the shoes, though.  

My first approach would be to identify where your problem is:  the easiest way 
is to take a pair of needle-nose vice-grips and wrap the jaws with copious 
amounts of electrical tape.  Then use these to cut off flow to each wheel, one 
by one and then to the rear by crimping off the flex lines.  You should then get 
a basic idea of where your problem lies.  

Step two would be to turn the brake shoe adjustment cams all the way out (shoes 
locked against drums).  This will eliminate the adjustment question to see if 
indeed your problem is "air" or just poor adjustment.

If your problem is indeed air, have fun.  The standard approaches to bleeding 
apply but I've had quite a bit of success with a tool called a "vacula". Sold by 
snap-on and made in Switzerland, it uses compressed air to create a vacuum 
within a chamber that is then connected to the bleed screw.  Crack the bleed 
screw, turn on the air and watch the fluid come out....just make sure you have 
fluid in the reservoir :) A good brake shop should have one...getting them to 
lend it to you might be a problem.

Then again, you could always put RR axles on the front and have disc 
brakes...oh, sorry, boatbuilder's syndrome again.

Good luck!

_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:07:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <SPENCERN@ACR.ORG> wrote:
>> Ahem, I was disqualified because of an unannounced "shunt"
>eric fails to recount treating several course markers like gates in a GS 
>downhill... :-)

Isn't that what the brush guard is for?  BTW, Sandy, next year could you try to 
get break-away gates? ...the bamboo is scratching my paint. :)

>or the fact that sphincter hill in 3rd low in a V8 would reduce any mortal 
>navigator to forget all but the vows he is making to his creator to get him out 
>of said predicament unharmed :-)

Oh, and your steering is any less scary....

>left? right? 
>i wuz lookin' for my guardian angel, thats m' story and i'm stickin' to it. :-)

That overworked angel...I heard he gave up once you bought a Rover!

_______________________________________________________________________
Eric Zipkin  Bedford, NY  USA  *  ericz@cloud9.net  * www.cloud9.net/~ericz
SIII 109" V8 Hardtop * SII 109" SW (since new) * '63 Triumph Spitfire
SIIA 88" (project car)  *  '67 Mini-Moke * '94 Car Trailer: "NOT FOR HIRE"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:09:19 -0500 (EST)
From: cmw@tiac.net (Christopher Weinbeck)
Subject: Wear on one tire?

Hi all.

I'm wondering about an 88" with funny wear on only one front tire.  It's
just worn on the outside edge -right side (pass. of lhd).

I know that only toe-in is supposed to be adjustable.

Does this wear indicate something specific to anyone?

Chris 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Christopher Weinbeck       Office Logic, Inc.      V (508) 392-0288
   _______                  7 Littleton Road        F (508) 692-0897   
  |__][_[_\__               Westford, MA 01886    Computerization for 
  |___\_|_]__]                                      the healthcare
    (o)    (o)  '69 109" RHD OD 2.6 Dormobile        professional        
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@cdr.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:23:49 +0000
Subject: Re: Tig welding

> Hello I need some advice. 
> I have been offerd a Tig welding machine(Argon Arc) for scrap value,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> Has anyone any experiance in this field?? Costs would be minor except 
> for creating a 360 Volt power line in my house.
If you like to do TIG, sure. If you want it for just stick or carbon 
arc, I'd investigate the costs of running 360 to your  house or 
converting the welder to 220 (or whatever the common house current is 
there). It may be cheaper to buy a new welder closer to what you 
need. Of course this can all be decided *after* you have the welder 
in your hands.
A flowmeter of good quality will set you back a couple $100 US. I 
bouhgt a rebuilt Victor for about $75 (half the cost of new) about 15 years ago.
I expect they've gone up.
For TIG you want a flowmeter, not *just* a regulator. The flow of gas 
is very critical. A small variation in flow can cause substantial 
problems with the arc. Get a two stage regulator/flowmeter.
> Landrover content, could I do my framewelding , panelrepairs etc. with 
> such a machine???
> this is minus the bottle of Argon gas. It should also be fit to use 
Panel repairs yes, frame welding-not of any quality. Materials need 
to be spotlessly clean (including no surface oxides) to get a good weld with 
a TIG setup.
As for the high-freq, it's not really required unless you're doing 
code welding. What it allows you to do is start the arc without 
touching the material which will imbed a bit of tungston in the weld 
area. That bit of imbeded tungston will cause the weld to fail a 
certification test. For stuff you'd likely do (assuming you aren't 
planning on welding pressure vessels) it doesn't matter.
More than you wanted to know probably, but I used to be a pipe 
weldor.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@cdr.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:32:54 -0500
Subject: fit problems

>>I have heard that the TDi engine has a built in pump on the front that can
cause fit problems in a Series car.

I think to put that engine in a series engine bay, you must remove and
relocate the battery and air cleaner and the stand they live on.

Cheers!!
John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
KF4NAS
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:33:27 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

>>i wuz lookin' for my guardian angel, thats m' story and i'm stickin' to
>>it. :-)
>That overworked angel...I heard he gave up once you bought a Rover!
Kenner's gave up on him years ago....He uses a Witch Doctor instead
these days.Since they're both always drunk,its difficult to know
whose looking after who.Results so far havent been impressive.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:34:20 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re: Oil Drainback on PH8A

        For the past 4 years (at least) the PH8A has has an oil drainback
valve. You can tell by looking at the circular row of holes around the
outside of the screw-in area but inside the o-ring. There is a rubber flap
that serves as a one way valve.
        I know it works because I made the mistake of re-installing my
spin-on filter adapter facing the wrong way on my old S3 and found that the
oil wouldn't flow hrough the PH8A in a reverse direction. I believe any of
the Frams that say "Wearguard" have the check valve.
.      Isn't the HP, Fram's gonzo, hi-buck, teflon
impregnated filter with an extra filtering element?

Jim Allen

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:38:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Wear on one tire?

>>I'm wondering about an 88" with funny wear on only one front tire.  It's
just worn on the outside edge -right side (pass. of lhd).

>>I know that only toe-in is supposed to be adjustable.

I'd check the toe-in first, and *pray* against finding a bent axle housing.
Seems like both would wear if it was toe, though.

John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
KF4NAS
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!!

------------------------------

From: Solihull@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:42:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Oil Filter for D90

>> I was not aware of the anti-drain
valve on the HP-1 filter.  Many people have recommended the Fram PH8A.  Is
a  case of the HP-1 being best but the PH8A being OK in a pinch?  What does
the anti-drain valve keep from draining?
 
  The valve keeps the filter itself from draining, Steve. This would require
the pump to spend the first few seconds on startup filling the filter,
instead of pressurizing the oil gallery.
Cheers!!
John Dillingham in Woodstock, GA
KF4NAS
73 s3 swb 25902676b DD engine rebuild under way!
72 s3 swb 25900502a rusted, in suspended animation
Looking for a P5 project
Vintage Rover Service--Since 1994, over half a dozen satisfied customers!!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:20:35 -0500
From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Subject: Re: Shallow thoughts...(was: Deep thoughts)

You'll be needing that Land Rover accessory Occupant Snorkel kit. Can't 
recall the part number offhand. Ajr?

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:46:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

On Thu, 19 Dec 1996, Mike Rooth wrote:

> Kenner's gave up on him years ago....He uses a Witch Doctor instead
> these days.Since they're both always drunk,its difficult to know
> whose looking after who.Results so far havent been impressive.

	Relocated Druids for summoning up the snow daemons.  For this,
	time to make another call and see what aspect of Nigel's Disease
	can be visited upon poor suffering Nora...  I hear cooling
	systems are in favour about now...

	

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:04:50 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

   Relocated Druids for summoning up the snow daemons.  For this,
>        time to make another call and see what aspect of Nigel's Disease
>        can be visited upon poor suffering Nora...  I hear cooling
>        systems are in favour about now...

Funny you should say that:-) Actually had to put a pint of water
in the other day.Feeble effort Kenner.
But its *your* fault the LH screen wiper is playing silly buggers.

Mike Rooth

------------------------------

From: Bob Watson <bobw@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: US "National" Land Rover Rally
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:03:05 -0800

>From: SPYDERS@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:53:08 -0500
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>into the photo op? Am I missing something apart from the fact that everything
>seems *bigger* out west? 
Yes it is and there were more Rovers there than were featured in the
mag. The article and photos focused on just one of the 10-12 trail trips
they had at the event. At it's peak, there were almost 100 rovers, about
2/3 (just a guess) were newer ones (RR/Disco/D90/D110) and 1/3 were
series'.  Each day featured 2-4 trips into the mountains and each trip
had up to 20 rovers in it. The venue was fantastic. Each trip went to a
pass > 10-12,00 foot elevation and the scenery was spectacular.
>I'm hoping that ARB bumpers, lockers and Old Man Emu suspensions aren't
>prerequisites to go on it... (maybe just to have your pic put in the mag;
>seems they all have the nice goodies in that neck o' the woods) all I's got
>is a land rover.

Definitely not the case, In fact, I was a bit disappointed in the
trails, they were mostly what I'd categorize as novice runs, with the
exception of some potentially metal mashing ones at the end. Some of the
group ventured into the mountains on their own in search of more
interesting terrain. Fortunately all the trails led to some very scenic
spots so it was still an interesting trip.
>Oh well, I guess if we didn't go, it wouldn't exist, so I'll hope to see you
>all there... now to come up with a quasi-legitimate excuse to get time to go
>to that rally.  
>is a land rover.
It's definitely worth the trip, IMNSHO.Whether your LR's "loaded for
bear" or not.

-- Bob W,
'95 Disco
>Oh well, I guess if we didn't go, it wouldn't exist, so I'll hope to see you

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:09:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Spencer K. C. Norcross" <SPENCERN@ACR.ORG>
Subject: Re: Surprise in the mail from the ROAV

eric writes...
>>navigator to forget all but the vows he is making to his creator to get him 
out 
>>of said predicament unharmed :-)

>Oh, and your steering is any less scary....

no, it's just as scary, but just less velocity :-)

>>i wuz lookin' for my guardian angel, thats m' story and i'm stickin' to it. :-

>That overworked angel...I heard he gave up once you bought a Rover!

i couldnt get him back until i bought a rover...

Spenny
Arlington, VA
1969 SWB - The Wayback Machine
Land Rover, 4WD of choice for the Information SuperHighway

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:50:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Shallow thoughts...(was: Deep thoughts)

>You'll be needing that Land Rover accessory Occupant Snorkel kit. Can't
recall the part number offhand. Ajr?
>Bill Adams
>3D Artist/Animator
>'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel:
>"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

Funny you should mention that..... I ran across it in my LR Series IIa
Optional Equipment Catalogue last night.

Don't remember the part number off-hand, but here's the description as best
I can remember it. It was originally part of the equipment on the military
APGP, to be used in case of bad driving or icebergs...as opposed to Jeff
Bergs (one's as deadly as the other...just more boring..8*)  )

Taylor Industries Occupant Snorkel Kit:

(Diagram shows corrugated hoses with 1-way valves on them hooked through
the dashboard into the intake snorkel tubing on the carb)

The Occupant Snorkel is designed for covert penetration of swampy or
flooded areas. Designed for use with the Engine Snorkel and Exhaust
Extension kits, the Occupant Snorkel option allows the front-seat
passengers of a submerged vehicle to remain in their seats yet still be
able to breathe comfortably, despite being in water above the normal
seating positions.

This option is not available for individual purchase due to the strategic
nature of its design and construction. Only licensed military or
governmental groups are allowed to buy this option, and it must be
factory-fitted.

{End inclusion}

Well, that's about it. These kits aren't really available, as MOD destroyed
theirs when they went off Series vehicles, rather than release them to
civilian hands.

If you really want one, you might try Taylor Industries. I hear they might
have parts that can be cobbled together.

                                   aj"Glub!"r

------------------------------

From: Alan_Richer/CAM/Lotus@crd.lotus.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:07:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Wear on one tire?

Re: Oddball wear: Sounds like toe-in is messed up - that would explain only
the one tire.

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:08:36 -0800
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: Re: Wear on one tire?

Mine stopped wearing funny when I replaced the front springs. The right side 
had two broken leaves, the left only one. It sat kind of tilted towards the 
right. Coincidence? I also did some rewiring at the same time and may have 
upset the Fault Equilibrium Level.
JohnO

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:45:43 -0800
From: Philip Caropreso <pcaropreso@willowtree.com>
Subject: 1962 series IIA  88" Land Rover, off frame, fully restored with Rover North parts

I am unable to maintain this vehicle because of lack of time and skill.
It really is perfect. I need a newer Rover, like a late 80's or 90's
Defender. I have $17,000 in this current Rover. I would be interested in
a trade, sale, exchange of vehicles plus cash. I am open to suggestions.
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:38:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Subject: wrecked 96 disco w/8k miles...

...sold at a local auto auction for $4.8k.  it was totaled
after flipping end over end.  the guy tends to try and
resell the vehicles whole before going thru the parting out
phase.  if any interest, i can get you phone number.
i thought about transplanting parts to my 87rr, but the 87rr
still has 2-3 years of good driving yet -- will be looking
for similiar item then...  oh, location is columbia, mo and
i just heard about it -- no connection.

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

------------------------------

From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:43:22 -0500
Subject:  Tig welding

Huub Pennings Wrote
<I have been offerd a Tig welding machine(Argon Arc) for scrap value,>

Take it Huub.

I used one of these things for many years and there are not many welding jobs
around a Rover you cant do with one. The only problem might be getting
replacements for  the tungsten tips which do burn out, especialy if you touch
down with it. Straight CO2 will do for welding steel, but you will need Argon
to work on Alluminium ( or Birmabright for that matter ). Let me know if you
need to know more.

Mike Rogers.
Lightweight / Range Rover hybrid.( A lot of welding went into building it )

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:44:11 -0500
Subject: Re: BFG 235/85's (It's the GVW)

Brian writes:
> The biggest reason for the NAS D90's GVW rating is actually an effort to
>  eliminate it from the Federal Luxury Tax. Any truck with a GVW of 6000# or
>  more is exempt from the Luxury Tax.

I'll check this out if I get a chance tomorrow, but I still think the reason
was to avoid certain safety standards. I think the breakpoint for the luxury
tax is 6000# curb weight, not GVW.

Regards,
David Cockey

------------------------------

From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:04:05 -0500
Subject: Anyone local to KAM?

Is anyone on the list local to KAM in Surrey, UK?  I'm interested in
getting some information and pricing from them, but have no way short
of spending huge sums on phone calls to get info.  If someone would be
willing to send a FAX or two from E-Mail messages or contact them with
pricing questions for me, I'd appreciate it.

-- 
Sean P. Murphy    - Project Director - (404)/727-2398 Voice
Emory University  - ITD/LearnLink    - (404)/727-2282 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:15:16 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re:Reason for BFGs

 For the Record,

        In order to avoid the luxury tax, several crash standards, import
tariffs and some emissions regulations, the D90 was configured with a 6001#
GVW - as a light truck. The actual size of the tire had little to do with
this aspect, since tires with sufficient capacity can be found in a variety
of sizes, the chosen 265/75R16 being only one in about a dozen possible
choices.
        From my conversations with some of the folks involved, the wider
tires were chosen primarily for the look. If you check out the rest of the
4x4 market here, you'll see what sells and what doesn't. Wide meats sell to
the 4x4 crowd - especially, unfortuantly, the boulevard crowd.
        There's more to it however. These tires give the vehicle a
performance edge over many of the other narrower selections. Hopefully, we
won't have to debate this point again but the end result is perhaps the
best possible combination of bits to make the best performing version of
the D90. Granted, the combo may have been assembled for the image value but
it does four-wheel in a highly effective manner.

Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:18:37 -0700
From: jimallen@onlinecol.com (Jim Allen)
Subject: Re:KAM has a US Distributor?

>Is anyone on the list local to KAM in Surrey, UK?  I'm interested in
>getting some information and pricing from them, but have no way short
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>willing to send a FAX or two from E-Mail messages or contact them with
>pricing questions for me, I'd appreciate it.

Kam has a USA Distributor - Great Basin Rovers (801) 486-5049, Bill Davis.
He also happens to be the Jack MacNamara distributor for the US.

Jim Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:32:38 -0500
From: Michel Bertrand <mbertran@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: 20,000$ Cdn 4.6 HSE RAnge Rover

Read in the papers lately:

A guy needed some cash quick so went to borrow some money in a pawn shop in
Montreal. He left his almost brand new Range Rover 4.6 HSE in guaranty for a
20,000$ loan. He had 30 days to pay back with some interest, of course.
Well, to make a story short, he couldn't make it. The owner of the pawn shop
now has a nice truck for the price of a used J**p Cherokee... 

It always happens to others...

Salutations, 

Michel Bertrand
						______
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada, 		       /    __
					      /        \
1963 109 PU (Rudolph)	   		     | Lucas    |
1968 109 SW (in the works)		     |  Inside  |
1973 88 SW (21st century project)	      \        /
					       \______/

------------------------------

From: RykRover@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: New Years Off-Road----Washington DC.

Tell me more . Yes,  have you had any other replies so far , as I am dying to
take it off road for the first time.        

                                                               Happy Trails,

                                                                         Rick
V.

`96 Disco 

------------------------------

From: Land_Rovers@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:57:43 -0500
Subject: Re: KAM has a US Distributor?

jimallen@onlinecol.com,Internet writes:
>Kam has a USA Distributor - Great Basin Rovers (801) 486-5049, Bill
>Davis.
>He also happens to be the Jack MacNamara distributor for the US.

Yeah, I talked to him a bit and he's checking into things for me, but
I'm interested in a lot of their new products and I'd like to work out
some promo with them, so I kinda need to exchange info.

-- 
Sean P. Murphy    - Project Director - (404)/727-2398 Voice
Emory University  - ITD/LearnLink    - (404)/727-2282 FAX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:02:44 -0800
From: jouster@rocket.com (John Ousterhout)
Subject: unsubscribe

I'll be off-line after saturday, 21 Dec until 6 Jan.
I'll write up the Military Vehicle Owners' snow run when I return. It's 
always a good chance to practice my extreme cold weather camping skills 
(last year the high was -5f) in relative safety. Last year, my 109 was the 
only vehicle to make it to the first nights camp (an old mine up on a 
mountainside) unassisted, then I got to winch everybody (including a 6x6 
with XCL's) up the last few meters. Getting the diesel started is my biggest 
worry, but my camp stove fit nicely under the oil pan to prewarm things.
Cheers, and a happy new year,
John O
'64 109 5-door "Safari-SoGoodi"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:08:44 -0500
From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Subject: Re: D90 Alum-Top

Last week I changed my pickup cab on my 90 for a station wagon top. I ordered 
take-off parts from the UK, which worked out very reasonable. The main 
components are the roof (plus alpine windows), sides (plus aluminium-framed 
sliding windows) and rear door. However, I don't have a US-spec 90 so didn't 
have to bother with the roll cage. It is not hard to do but you need to check 
the parts manual to be aware of all the angle brackets, nuts & bolts, sealing 
strips etc. that are essential for a proper job. 

The first overwhelmimg impression is the amazing visibility out of the back and 
sides, compared with what I had through the soft top on the rear of the pickup.

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute
Vieux Fort
St. Lucia, West Indies.
Tel +(758) 454 6060
Fax +(758) 454 5188

------------------------------

From: Wdcockey@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:04:50 -0500
Subject: Exhaust shielding (was Re: Gearbox pic)

As part of a thread I missed the beginning of Jim comments:
>  I have also been looking at the exhaust wrap to help keep the heat away
>  from the interior of the vehicle. Anyone tried that or a similar product?

You might try a simple metal heat shield, a simple piece of steel (galvanized
to prevent rust) between the exhaust and floor. Either clamp it to the pipe,
or mount on simple standoffs from the body. LR did this on SI, SII, SIIA/III
6 cylinders, and some of the pieces are still available. Its also standard
practice by most auto manufactuers these days, particularly around catalytic
converters. Wrapping the exhaust is just going to transfer the heat
downstream, and probably not help exhaust system life.

Regards,
David Cockey

  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:24:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Russell U Wilson <ruwst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: 1962 series IIA  88" Land Rover, off frame, fully restored with Rover North parts

> I am unable to maintain this vehicle because of lack of time and skill.

time? if it's done you've already put the time into it..
telling everyone that you lack the skills to maintain it but that it's
"perfect" and you've just redone it might not be the best choice of words.
 if it's done all you have to do is change fluids.....just
like any other car or truck old or new.

> It really is perfect. I need a newer Rover, like a late 80's or 90's
> Defender. I have $17,000 in this current Rover. I would be interested in
> a trade, sale, exchange of vehicles plus cash. I am open to suggestions.
> Thanks.

hmmm could be just be trading problems with someone

Russ W.
67 Rhd 88  
"The Pig"

P.S....  where are you located?? "FOR SALE" stuff is best when a location
is mentioned

------------------------------

From: SPYDERS@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:20:26 -0500
Subject: Re: US "Nat'l" Rallye

<<...there were more Rovers there than were featured in the
mag. The article and photos focused on just one of the 10-12 trail trips
they had at the event. At it's peak, there were almost 100 rovers, about
2/3 (just a guess) were newer ones (RR/Disco/D90/D110) and 1/3 were
series'.>>
I knew there had to be more to it that was let on in a Disco review
article... I wonder why the event didn't get a few pages of its own?

<<I was a bit disappointed in the
trails, they were mostly what I'd categorize as novice runs...>>
Just what I need for a relaxing vacation. Its always nice to know that I can
drive my rover home. Otherwise there is that NY-based Land Rover towing
service...

Thanks to Bob W. w/ the Disco for clarifying the finer points.

pat.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:34:24 -0800
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn@crl.com>
Subject: Calling all NAS Def's!

I would like to build a registry web page for North American Spec Defenders. 

This will be sorted on vehicle/year (93 D110, 94-5 D90, 95 D90SW, 97 D90 I
think) and would list any or all of the following info:

- vehicle #
- Owner's name (with e-mail link)
- Vehicle name (if any)/Custom License plate
- Location (City, State/Province)
- Modifications and Options

This is a totally optional thing, and basically would let people look up
who's vehicle they spotted in the parking garage or whatever.  

So, if you have a NAS D110 or D90, please e-mail me with at least your
number & model.  If you don't want to be listed, I'll just put your number
in and "private" or "anonymous".  Or, let me know what you want listed
(like, if you want your name, but not e-mail, or location but not your name,
etc.)

Thanks in advance!

--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn@crl.com                             that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                  http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

------------------------------

From: "Davies, Scott" <sdavies@monetpost.stdavids.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 08:51:00 PST

My beast is actually pre-Defender, just a 110.

I would LOVE to have the TDI engine (though there's probably more to go 
wrong), my 2.5D is seriously lacking in the horsepower department: 65bhp in 
a 2 ton truck means you measure the 0 to 60mph time on the calendar. (that's 
when you can make it up to 60, strong headwind this morning meant I was 
struggling to make 45). Oh for  US petrol prices and a 3.5V8!

Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT with own private traffic jam :-)
 ----------

So would you trade your 2.5D powerplant for a TDi?  Every once and a while
I toy with the idea of replacing my 2.25 petrol engine with a 2.5L turbo
diesel.

I have heard that the TDi engine has a built in pump on the front that can
cause fit problems in a Series car.

TeriAnn

twakeman@scruznet.com

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: RE: Deep thoughts...
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 9:48:07 GMT

> At  2:12 PM 12/19/96 -0800, Davies, Scott wrote:
> ;
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> I have heard that the TDi engine has a built in pump on the front that can
> cause fit problems in a Series car.

Apparently the grille has to be Stage-One-anised...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:44:10 +0100 (MET)

| Scott Davies '85 110 2.5D HT with own private traffic jam :-)
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmm! Where do I know this scene from? ;-)
But otherwise I like my old oilburner and it's allways enough to
outpass my friends SIII 109 with its 2.3D ;-)

Franz, with his dubble length private traffic jam when driving in convoi
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: Franz Parzefall <franz@max.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:07:47 +0100 (MET)

Richard writes:
| Apparently the grille has to be Stage-One-anised...
Apparently not. Take a look at Patrick Zammit Haber's pages
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/2267/ 
His SIII 109 has a TDi transplant and the old grille.

cu.
Franz
---------------------------------------------------------------
Franz Parzefall                franz@physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de
       _______
      [____|\_\==
      [_-__|__|_-]      Brumml, exmil. 1989 Land Rover 110 2.5D
 ___.._(0)..._.(0)__..-
                                  

------------------------------

From: marsden@digicon-egr.co.uk (Richard Marsden)
Subject: Re: Deep thoughts...
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 10:21:53 GMT

> Richard writes:
> | Apparently the grille has to be Stage-One-anised...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
> cu.
> Franz

I stand corrected. I was just quoting what a Landy specialist told me.
They were dead set against the whole idea - and not just because of the money.
Would require lots of changes, new gearbox,etc, etc.

Will have a look...

Richard (ex-Gurkha SIII 109 FFR)

------------------------------

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In addition so subscribing and unsubscribing, the Frequently Asked
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Useful commands for this are 'index lro-digest' which returns a list of
files available, as well as 'get lro-digest <filename>', etc.

World Wide Web Sites start at
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(shadow) http://www.Senie.com/billc/lr/pages.html

If majordomo barfs at something, and you're convinced he should have 
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  -B

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Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011 Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved. Digest Messages Copyright 1990-2011 by the original poster or/and Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.